View Full Version : Buyer's remorse about Trump?
Ultralight
8-16-17, 5:39pm
Do you think there will come a point when the majority of Trump voters will regret their vote? When? What will it take?
The other choice was still Hillary, and Trump is defiantly entertaining. I try and watch CNN for a few minutes before I go to sleep. Just watching Anderson Cooper and his gang ranting and raving about all thing s Trump and Russia was worth the vote.
Ultralight
8-16-17, 6:08pm
The other choice was still Hillary...
There were other choices.
frugal-one
8-16-17, 6:22pm
The other choice was still Hillary, and Trump is defiantly entertaining. I try and watch CNN for a few minutes before I go to sleep. Just watching Anderson Cooper and his gang ranting and raving about all thing s Trump and Russia was worth the vote.
If I remember correctly... you are wealthy enough not to have to worry about healthcare?
If I remember correctly... you are wealthy enough not to have to worry about healthcare?
I just got my new policy information. I'll be paying $1550 per month of after tax money. I quit working 10 years ago so I've paid quite a bit in insurance premiums. And I've still got 5 years to go till Medicare, And my wife is 4 years younger than me. The $1550 is for both of us.
Im not sure what that has to do with anything. I didn't see where Hillary was going to lower the cost of healthcare.
BikingLady
8-16-17, 6:46pm
Every day, really hour, I think some of those have remorse by now. But really people never like to say they made a mistake, so I doubt it.
There were other choices.
Not that had any chance of winning. The other choices just allowed you to say you voted for neither.
i would love a viable third party, or fourth. Maybe the Democrates and Republicans can both break up from the extreams.
Ultralight
8-16-17, 7:02pm
Not that had any chance of winning. The other choices just allowed you to say you voted for neither.
Sad way to vote, dmc...
Williamsmith
8-16-17, 8:54pm
No! You don't understand his base or you wouldn't even ask the question.
Sad way to vote, dmc...
I thought you were not going to vote at all. I voted for who I wanted. No remorse here. My life is no different today than what it was 6 months ago.
Williamsmith
8-16-17, 9:09pm
I thought you were not going to vote at all. I voted for who I wanted. No remorse here. My life is no different today than what it was 6 months ago.
Thats not true dmc.......your investments in the stock market are worth a good deal more.
iris lilies
8-16-17, 9:12pm
Thats not true dmc.......your investments in the stock market are worth a good deal more.
Yes, so true.
I have a couple of friends who voted Trump because he represented their traditional GOP platform, or so they thought. I think they have a little buyer's remorse, but bring up the "better than alternative" argument. I don't think anything has made much of a dent in his hardcore base because they share much of his values.
I lightened my stock holdings after the election and have no regrets. Risk and return will always be related and I think market risk has increased significantly with a loose canon at the wheel..
I am waitingto see if the couple trump supporters get buyers remorse. We arenot people who talk but i see them on social media. One just copied the opinion that both sides were equally responsible for Charlottesville. I wonder what her black relatives think. And the other posted that being politically correct was the primary problem. So no apparent change in these cases
Do you think there will come a point when the majority of Trump voters will regret their vote? When? What will it take?
No. He's making america great (white) again. That 34% or whatever it is that still thinks he's awesome will be like archie bunker and nixon. As long as they think trump is making it even worse for others, they'll support him 110%
ApatheticNoMore
8-17-17, 1:56am
he may not be all bad or his administration anyway, NAFTA renegotiating plans don't sound all bad from what I understand. But maybe someone knows all the details on that better, as the devil is *always* snuck in the details in those types of things, and I'm no expert there.
Yes of course, he's *mostly* bad, I just said perhaps not all. But both parties are really in total disarray (although the Dems aren't even able to hold almost any even nominal power). And on the Dem side they still have pretty much no real positive program to offer (as the NAFTA stuff reminds me - how the Dems love trade agreements even though they just seem another factor in everything getting worse). But they plan to beat trump with nothing I suppose. Could happen but might not, if so and they win on a platform of nothing, then Trump will have lowered the bar so much that noone is even hoping for anything at all positive from voting anymore, not a positive development really.
Thats not true dmc.......your investments in the stock market are worth a good deal more.
Thats true, more than enough to pay for several years of health insurance.
Ultralight
8-17-17, 7:12am
I voted for who I wanted. No remorse here. My life is no different today than what it was 6 months ago.
That's right, dig your heels in, buddy! haha
Chicken lady
8-17-17, 7:45am
My father doesn't want to talk about it anymore.
despite 8 years of gleeful phone calls every time Obama did something that I didn't agree with, I am honoring that preference - I've been told "we go high" ;)
that boy grew up really close to me. I know so many of those boys. My heart breaks for his family, and I wonder what *i* can do to help them. Nobody should be so scared and angry at 20 years old.
I keep wondering where all the adults have gone.
Do you think there will come a point when the majority of Trump voters will regret their vote? When? What will it take?
Why do you ask? Were you planning on making them wear scarlet "Ts"?
I think a lot of people who voted for Trump weren't so much interested in his personal qualities or policy goals as they were in flipping the bird to a condescending and indifferent political establishment.
I think a lot of people who voted for Trump weren't so much interested in his personal qualities or policy goals as they were in flipping the bird to a condescending and indifferent political establishment.
As far as my DH is concerned, it was that, and also probably the promise of at least an attempt to wind back the clock to "the good old days" reflected in the TV shows of the 50s. Now, when I ask DH about buyer's remorse, he expresses not condemnation, but exasperation--like the parent telling the unruly kid that he is a very good boy but he should just listen to the teacher more (smile, wink).
Williamsmith
8-17-17, 8:08am
Why do you ask? Were you planning on making them wear scarlet "Ts"?
I think a lot of people who voted for Trump weren't so much interested in his personal qualities or policy goals as they were in flipping the bird to a condescending and indifferent political establishment.
LDAHL has been paying attention. He is 100% on the mark. Trump was simply a tool. And it wasn't at all clear just how much of a stone in the shoe he would be to the snobby establishment but it has turned out to be more than the Pissed off masses could have imagined. The people that voted for Trump to Make America Great Again are smiling with glee every time he tweets and gets on somebody's nerve. Mid terms are approaching. If you want to get elected in the Rust Belt.....you better not waffle on Trump. Double down.
As far as my DH is concerned, it was that, and also probably the promise of at least an attempt to wind back the clock to "the good old days" reflected in the TV shows of the 50s. Now, when I ask DH about buyer's remorse, he expresses not condemnation, but exasperation--like the parent telling the unruly kid that he is a very good boy but he should just listen to the teacher more (smile, wink).
Ya know the 'good old days' were not that good for a lot of people. So I understand some of this, but I as a woman I do NOT want to go back. I am sure there are a lot of people when they are honest do not consider the good old days that great.
I think I really don't understand many things right now, I just posted on my FB that I am willing to talk to white people who are struggling or opposite of me (both of them!). I think a fundamental difference is how it affects you when someone does or is something different. I have dealt with this my whole life, friends who want you to do what they are doing and have everything from irritation to full blown melt downs when you are different. I am sure it is wired in our brains in some way, but I have been that person who is generally the different one. I notice the awkwardness or the discomfort, or the curiosity or interest, when this happens. Past the age of 13 I have generally been in this situation in my own experience.
Ya know the 'good old days' were not that good for a lot of people. So I understand some of this, but I as a woman I do NOT want to go back. I am sure there are a lot of people when they are honest do not consider the good old days that great.
That's exactly what I tell him. Never mind the tough time non-white minorities had. His own mother was widowed at the age of 43 and had to learn to drive and support her family on a store clerk salary. My mother kicked my father out due to alcoholism, and found her best last resort was to remarry because her earning potential was tapped out at $2 an hour as a bookkeeper, plus she had to withstand being somewhat of a social pariah because of the divorce. I agree--the good old days weren't that great.
frugal-one
8-17-17, 10:40am
Thats not true dmc.......your investments in the stock market are worth a good deal more.
Stress from all the daily drama... is not worth it. Also, Trump takes credit for things he actually had no part in. Our economy was on the uphill climb before he came along!
gimmethesimplelife
8-17-17, 11:41am
Something that gives me hope is that his base is continuing to shrink and that more and more GOP members/senators are drifting away from him. I am having more and more conversations with people OUTSIDE of the 85006 that want to see him gone and out of power - even some conversations up in North 85016 - which means nothing to almost everyone here, the area I refer to is a ritzy area a few miles to my north - a shopping/office park intersection with the highest office space rents in the Metro Phoenix area. I've overhead office workers walking by this intersection bemoaning Trump and his missteps/attempts at viable policies while I have been in this ritzy area doing secret shops. I've also spoken to service folks in this area and anti-Trump speech seems to be a bonding tool with such folks much like it is for me with a few other safe temps when I serve banquets at the Convention Center. (Let me clarify when I speak to the other temps - I don't speak to the guests on the floor about such matters).
My take is that it is not going to take too much longer and I will be able to wear my impeachment outfit and stand proudly with my husband on a joyous day when Donald Trump is stripped of his executive powers. Matter of fact, the way things are going with his polling so horribly lately and his base shrinking and more and more of his own party turning against him? Given his huge ego, he may just walk away from the Oval Office voluntarily and hand the keys to Pence on his way out. We would still have a Neighborhood Block Party in the 85006! I've even cashed in on Mobee, a secret shopper app I use, for $50 in Amazon.com gift code credit and have bought a nice set of plates specifically for the day in which Trump no longer is President. If anyone is curious, they are red and black plates that very much remind me of Spain, which is totally besides the point other than I'm ready to celebrate with style!
I personally have no buyer's remorse with Trump as I did not vote for him. I also see some good in his holding the job and making so many missteps/creating and causing so many issues. People are going to think twice next election cycle and vote perhaps more Independent or Democrat out of disgust for Trump, thereby weakening the GOP and leading to a minimization of strippage of basic human rights. So long term, this Trump fiasco may have it's silver lining - but a long term perspective needs to be taken in order to see such. At least in the 85006 we can say the man was toast the first time he got up to speak at a debate before the election even took place, we have that as a point of pride. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
8-17-17, 11:46am
Stress from all the daily drama... is not worth it. Also, Trump takes credit for things he actually had no part in. Our economy was on the uphill climb before he came along!Don't drop dead of shock anyone here, ok? My take is that at first, the election of Donald Trump did indeed boost the stock market a bit due to his rhetoric and the fact that the market loved his rhetoric. Now, however, due to his missteps and the lofty very hard to justify overvaluations of most stocks, Trump may very well be a net negative or rather a liability to the markets. I'd love to see the GOP explain it away if a Trump misstep caused a serious correction in the lofty valuations in today's stock market! They would be on the hook for such for some time. And I would not be surprised if such is indeed not far off.......Patience, folks, as I often say in conversations in the 85006 - our day is coming! Rob
Stress from all the daily drama... is not worth it. Also, Trump takes credit for things he actually had no part in. Our economy was on the uphill climb before he came along!
I could give the Trump bump in the stock market at least a little credence based on tax cut speculations and cost savings due to regulatory roll-backs. Tumpanomics does not hold water for me and so far it's just a lot of speculation. The talking heads say stocks are overvalued and due for a correction, though I doubt they really know.
I could also speculate the the ACA repeal failed in part due to poor presidential leadership. So I could give T a little credit for that.
If Trump is out, Pence is in. I don't have a problem with that. As long as Hillary is history.
I could give the Trump bump in the stock market at least a little credence based on tax cut speculations and cost savings due to regulatory roll-backs.
As an investor, I see now very little chance that the few minor tax code changes I wanted to see will come to pass.
As an aside, I think people who blame/credit Presidents for stock market performance are mistaken about how the market works.
Williamsmith
8-17-17, 3:12pm
Don't drop dead of shock anyone here, ok? My take is that at first, the election of Donald Trump did indeed boost the stock market a bit due to his rhetoric and the fact that the market loved his rhetoric. Now, however, due to his missteps and the lofty very hard to justify overvaluations of most stocks, Trump may very well be a net negative or rather a liability to the markets. I'd love to see the GOP explain it away if a Trump misstep caused a serious correction in the lofty valuations in today's stock market! They would be on the hook for such for some time. And I would not be surprised if such is indeed not far off.......Patience, folks, as I often say in conversations in the 85006 - our day is coming! Rob
Rob, I recommend staying out of my zip code. You'd drop dead from shock at how much ardent support he has here. I think you are quite insulated from reality and the cable news networks and mainstream news papers are feeding your fantasies. All the best but you can't see the whole battlefield from your perspective.
ApatheticNoMore
8-17-17, 3:28pm
probably not a neighborhood you want to set foot in if you are type of minority anyway I'm guessing.
Teacher Terry
8-17-17, 3:32pm
Pence is even scarier then Trump because he knows how to get things done in a political system, he can speak decently and can appear to be more even keeled. As it is Trump can't seem to get anything done which is a good thing.
Sadly things are getting done, the appointment of 30+ Federal judges. The circus in the front is hiding the activity behind scenes that is setting the stage for a very conservative agenda. Pence is scarier because of his calmer appearance and he has "friends".
Rob, I recommend staying out of my zip code. You'd drop dead from shock at how much ardent support he has here. I think you are quite insulated from reality and the cable news networks and mainstream news papers are feeding your fantasies. All the best but you can't see the whole battlefield from your perspective.
Where I live, it's mostly middle and upper-middle class Republicans. Trump was beaten pretty badly in our primary by warm and cuddly Ted Cruz.
Probably the commonest attitude here is "close your eyes and think of Gorsuch".
In the 2016 general election, my county went:
Clinton 66.57%
Trump 24.95%
Stein 4.33% (Green Party)
Johnson 3.73% (Libertarian Party)
Castle 0.21% (Constitution Party)
Kennedy 0.1% (Socialist Workers Party)
Estela La Riva 0.1% (Socialism and Liberation Party)
In the 2016 Democratic Primary the county went:
Sanders 59.47%
Clinton 40.53%
And in the Republican Primary:
Trump 70.73%
Kasich 15.98%
Cruz 9.91%
Carson 3.38%
Teacher Terry
8-17-17, 4:43pm
I have many friends/family in the MidWest and not one of them voted for the Orange One.
I have many friends/family in the MidWest and not one of them voted for the Orange One.
That's not surprising. In Wisconsin, where you lived was a pretty good indicator of how you voted.
gimmethesimplelife
8-17-17, 7:54pm
probably not a neighborhood you want to set foot in if you are type of minority anyway I'm guessing.Good point, ANM! Rob
gimmethesimplelife
8-17-17, 8:01pm
That's not surprising. In Wisconsin, where you lived was a pretty good indicator of how you voted.This holds true in Arizona, too. Of course the 85006 - and other zip codes closeby, too - held true to principles and voted for Hillary Clinton. I know the zips in the metro area that voted for Trump and while I don't go out of my way to avoid them, I make a little bit of effort to minimize time in them and when I am in a pro-Trump area, I am much more wary and on guard as I know I'm in that other country in which there is no real place for me. No way to put spin on that one, it just is so, and I'm a realist and can't not see that.
Anyway, something positive though? When I travel to the Borderland, Santa Cruz County (tiny county in Arizona which has Nogales, AZ as it's county seat and is very heavily Hispanic) is as blue as blue can be and most (but not all) of Tucson in Pima County is, too. Once I get beyond Pinal County (Home of Paul Babeau if any of you know this controversy of the gay ex-sheriff of Pinal County and his Mexican boyfriend involving threats to the boyfriend with immigration if the boyfriend revealed Babeau's sexual orientation) I'm in very friendly country, even with Arizona being a red state.....there are swaths of it that are very blue, too. It helps to know where the blue is and to stay in the blue when possible, especially with things so unstable these days. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
8-17-17, 8:07pm
Rob, I recommend staying out of my zip code. You'd drop dead from shock at how much ardent support he has here. I think you are quite insulated from reality and the cable news networks and mainstream news papers are feeding your fantasies. All the best but you can't see the whole battlefield from your perspective.To which I respectfully reply: This street very much goes two ways. I believe you are insulated from reality in the sense that your post does not seem to take into account how much fear and loathing of Donald Trump there truly is out there. I don't have cable and the media really does not form my opinions - daily economic survival does. I rank Trump so far a D - I'd give him an F but I do like the idea of our taxes being simplified so I'm being gracious and giving him a D. This is a rare kind take in the 85006 mind you, but I am at heart a humanitarian, hence the kind take towards Donald Trump. At any rate, I'd recommend your staying out of my zip code, for the same reasons you recommend I remain out of yours (shock of the flip of your script taking place) - once again, with all due respect, this street VERY MUCH goes two ways. Rob
frugal-one
8-17-17, 8:26pm
Rob, I recommend staying out of my zip code. You'd drop dead from shock at how much ardent support he has here. I think you are quite insulated from reality and the cable news networks and mainstream news papers are feeding your fantasies. All the best but you can't see the whole battlefield from your perspective.
This was very arrogant of you... insulting actually!
gimmethesimplelife
8-17-17, 8:31pm
This was very arrogant of you... insulting actually!Thank You, Frugal One. Rob
Williamsmith
8-17-17, 10:53pm
This was very arrogant of you... insulting actually!
My apologies to Rob. I have many faults but arrogance is not one of them. Although I believe the perceived insult was inadvertent and a result of a misunderstanding....still...I will self impose a suspension.
https://youtu.be/iCAMsqx3q3M
rosarugosa
8-18-17, 4:54am
My favorite band!
Don't feel bad, Williamsmith!
Why do you ask? Were you planning on making them wear scarlet "Ts"?
I think a lot of people who voted for Trump weren't so much interested in his personal qualities or policy goals as they were in flipping the bird to a condescending and indifferent political establishment.
It's lamentable that President Obama couldn't shuck and jive better so as to curry favor with the unwashed electorate who (aside from a persistent core of frank racism/misogyny) can't bear to vote for a man they wouldn't want to "have a beer with." Personally (I know I'm repeating myself), I want a president who's smarter than I am, not some ignorant, grifting blowhard like the one we ended up with.
It's lamentable that President Obama couldn't shuck and jive better so as to curry favor with the unwashed electorate who (aside from a persistent core of frank racism/misogyny) can't bear to vote for a man they wouldn't want to "have a beer with."
And yet he won handily, twice!
I think one of his crowning achievements was to make it fashionable for the true believers to publicly display their true attitudes about the "unwashed". Every level of local governance has benefited as a result. That's a legacy to be proud of!
It's lamentable that President Obama couldn't shuck and jive better so as to curry favor with the unwashed electorate who (aside from a persistent core of frank racism/misogyny) can't bear to vote for a man they wouldn't want to "have a beer with." Personally (I know I'm repeating myself), I want a president who's smarter than I am, not some ignorant, grifting blowhard like the one we ended up with.
I think it's just that kind of rhetoric that put Trump over the top in a lot of areas.
I hope Democrats get the drift and run a bunch of grinning glad-handing good old boys next time. The republic may not survive the current wave of blackguards, pissants, and Russian dupes.
I hope Democrats get the drift and run a bunch of grinning glad-handing good old boys next time. The republic may not survive the current wave of blackguards, pissants, and Russian dupes.
"Vote for me, you benighted bigots. I know what's best for you even if you're too stupid to realize it." Hasn't worked out that well for them. Maybe a little faked humility might play better with the deplorables.
I hope Democrats get the drift and run a bunch of grinning glad-handing good old boys next time. The republic may not survive the current wave of blackguards, pissants, and Russian dupes.Note to conservatives: In all upcoming elections, limit advertising to "Jane On The Street" interviews. It'll be a landslide.
I won't be granting interviews; I'll leave that to Bannon and the like.
I won't be granting interviews; I'll leave that to Bannon and the like.
That's OK, I still appreciate all you do for the conservative cause. Every little bit helps. ;)
I admit Republican candidates have been scrupulous in pretending to care about the sensibilities of the "little people." as Leona Helmsley would characterize them. Trump, after all, famously exclaimed "I love the poorly educated!" which no doubt got him tons of votes. I suppose it's human nature--or the nature of some humans--to scorn the learned. Too bad, in a country where schools and libraries are free (so far).
I want a president who's smarter than I am, not some ignorant, grifting blowhard like the one we ended up with.
I think it's just that kind of rhetoric that put Trump over the top in a lot of areas.
It's kind of sad and pathetic that there's a whole chunk of our population who think ignorance and lack of education are somehow virtuous and that intelligence should be feared and mocked.
I suppose it's human nature--or the nature of some humans--to scorn the learned. Too bad, in a country where schools and libraries are free (so far).
:thankyou: :+1:
It's kind of sad and pathetic that there's a whole chunk of our population who think ignorance and lack of education are somehow virtuous and that intelligence should be feared and mocked.It's cool that you guys are willing to help out for free. Selfless public service is an admirable trait. :thankyou:
It's kind of sad and pathetic that there's a whole chunk of our population who think ignorance and lack of education are somehow virtuous and that intelligence should be feared and mocked.
I think it's the unfounded assumption of intelligence that gets feared and mocked. What is more frightening than a dangerous incompetent who demands your trust? What is sillier than being lectured to by an arrogant buffoon?
While I think voting for Trump was an example of cutting off one's nose to spite one's face, I can certainly understand the impulse of wanting to thumb one's nose at the pretensions of a self-styled elite.
I think it's the unfounded assumption of intelligence that gets feared and mocked. What is more frightening than a dangerous incompetent who demands your trust? What is sillier than being lectured to by an arrogant buffoon?
While I think voting for Trump was an example of cutting off one's nose to spite one's face, I can certainly understand the impulse of wanting to thumb one's nose at the pretensions of a self-styled elite.
They don't seem to differentiate between assumption of intelligence and actual intelligence. And becoming intelligent might help them learn how to tell apart the two. But I'm sure I'd get called an elitist snob for making that suggestion.
Electing the biggest buffoon of all doesn't seem like a sensible solution. Nad seems to show a lack of understanding that, for better or worse, the president makes life and death decisions on a daily basis. Picking someone with some sort of competence would seem to matter and anyone too stupid to recognize that is just a stupid idiot. But hey, if we get in a nuclear war with North Korea we'll undoubtedly blow them off the face of the planet many teams over. Those of us who survive can be all proud about how great he made America, chanting "USA! USA! USA!"
ApatheticNoMore
8-18-17, 12:46pm
They don't seem to differentiate between assumption of intelligence and actual intelligence. And becoming intelligent might help them learn how to tell apart the two. But I'm sure I'd get called an elitist snob for making that suggestion.
so the question for the ages: how would one define intelligence? Because if one just means being informed and well read about political theory, history, or even the news, then it's probably more direct (and less insulting) to just say so as in: what I mean by that is looking at 3 newspapers a day and closely following the inner workings of the Trump administration. Fair enough, and not everyone will but those who do will be more informed about that for sure.
But hey, if we get in a nuclear war with North Korea we'll undoubtedly blow them off the face of the planet many teams over. Those of us who survive can be all proud about how great he made America, chanting "USA! USA! USA!"
We did that to Japan, only nation that has ever used nuclear weapons. USA! And there might be a limit to how much people care, or they have way more immediate concerns like day to day economic survival (isn't it usually argued that foreign policy is not a big influence on most people's voting decisions? so don't expect it to suddenly become so in that case). But anyway if this happens it would so obviously be ultimately the fault of systems not just Trump ... No one person should ever be allowed to start a nuclear war, I mean duh, if that's actually how it is set up it is a failed system period (truthfully it would seem like a stupid system - the term stupid makes sense there). Now could a bunch of military bigwigs and intelligence types and the president, making nuclear war also make a bad decision? Of course they could. The best and the brightest ...
And people wondered why folks argued for nuclear disarmament, because we have little assurance that those in charge will actually make the right decision with such powerful weapons, sometimes it seems nuclear war has been avoided more through luck than any great brilliance.
i suppose it's true that most people don't vote based on foreign policy. But maybe that will change if the president's unstable and threatening statements goad NK into sending a nuclear bomb or two at us. If a couple of US cities are left smoking, irradiated ruins maybe those personal economoic concerns will rightfully take a back seat, but it will be too late at that point.
As long as Trump's real estate holdings remains unaffected, he'll just issue a few tweets and an angry speech or two.
Well, seemingly, Trump had buyer's remorse about Bannon because looks like he's got one foot out the door.
ApatheticNoMore
8-18-17, 1:48pm
i suppose it's true that most people don't vote based on foreign policy. But maybe that will change if the president's unstable and threatening statements goad NK into sending a nuclear bomb or two at us. If a couple of US cities are left smoking, irradiated ruins maybe those personal economoic concerns will rightfully take a back seat, but it will be too late at that point.
there is no rightfully to it, or no absolute argument on why economic concerns should take a backseat (I'm not saying trump does much good there mind you - if the guy was coming out with job programs etc. there would be a stronger argument for him), especially as nuclear war is just a hypothetical and people's economic issues could be hypothetical (worried about a layoff that may or may not happen) or might be lived reality right now. So kind of why should they value some hypothetical over the real? It's not EVEN a hypothetical that we can predict fairly well like climate change etc.. because it might happen and might not (look there is no doubt climate change IS happening but nuclear war truly is a hypothetical).
so the question for the ages: how would one define intelligence?
I try to always make the assumption that I'm not the smartest one in the room. Even when I'm alone.
I try to always make the assumption that I'm not the smartest one in the room. Even when I'm alone.
It's probably wise to allow for any extra-dimensional intellectuals who may be lingering...:idea:
But me--if I'm alone, I claim it!
Teacher Terry
8-18-17, 2:38pm
You don't have to be highly educated to be smart. Many educated people are not intelligent. Obama was smart, thoughtful, caring, a great speaker and he had class. Trump does not possess 1 of those attributes. This election has shown that the electoral college has to go.
This election has shown that the electoral college has to go.I'm sure it would be nice for Presidential candidates to tailor their messages to a few high population coastal areas rather than an entire country. Getting those folks in the middle on board is such a bother, they don't call it fly-over country for nothing.
It's good that presidential candidates can tailor their messages to lower population areas in the center of the country and ignore the high population center areas on the coasts. Getting those snobs on the coasts on board is such a bother. They dont call them the coastal elite for nothing.
Teacher Terry
8-18-17, 5:29pm
My views when I lived in fly over country was the same as they are now.
frugal-one
8-18-17, 5:36pm
I'm sure it would be nice for Presidential candidates to tailor their messages to a few high population coastal areas rather than an entire country. Getting those folks in the middle on board is such a bother, they don't call it fly-over country for nothing.
I never understood why it matters where people live. People are people. I vote to abolish the electoral college also!
I never understood why it matters where people live. People are people. I vote to abolish the electoral college also!
Because it's the states which ultimately elect the highest office in the land, not the people. The Federal Government was designed to be a client of the states, the House of Representatives was set up to represent the people in a purely democratic form and the Senate representing the States, providing a means for all parties to have a measure of control over the Feds and prevent the feared 'Tyranny of the Majority'.
The Electoral College ensures that each state has relatively equal per capita influence by assigning a varying number of electoral votes dependent upon their populations. Without the College, it's possible for several high population States to completely control the top executive position.
Yes, in order ti get the slave states to agree to rhe constitution they set us up for 200+ years of tyrany of the minority. Because after all. Why should the state that represents the soxth largest economy in the world have any say in the selection of the president?
Because it's the states which ultimately elect the highest office in the land, not the people. The Federal Government was designed to be a client of the states, the House of Representatives was set up to represent the people in a purely democratic form and the Senate representing the States, providing a means for all parties to have a measure of control over the Feds and prevent the feared 'Tyranny of the Majority'.
The Electoral College ensures that each state has relatively equal per capita influence by assigning a varying number of electoral votes dependent upon their populations. Without the College, it's possible for several high population States to completely control the top executive position.
Thanks, I never saw or understood that before. I had always thought the President was representative of the people by the individual vote of the people. Never understood the role of the Electoral College. Maybe heard it phrased somewhat differently and so it didn't register properly.
gimmethesimplelife
8-18-17, 7:35pm
This Presidency has unraveled to the point that I just had a serious discussion with my husband two hours ago: Where exactly do my loyalties lie when Trump is mercifully stripped of his office, however this comes to be? Do I spend all my time at the Neighborhood Block Party, feeding my neighbors with the dishes I've promised (and will follow through on, money is already set aside and budgeted for this so no debt will be incurred), or do I spend time in Mexico for the joyous celebrations there? I've already been invited to parties - taking place at whatever date Trump gets the heave-ho - in Colonia Kennedy, an upscale neighborhood in Nogales (on the Mexican side) where my husband has relatives. I owe Mexico so much as it's always been there for me with affordable medical and dental care - at times when my life was not worth this in the United States. I'm not one to forget such or be disloyal to such.
Ay carumba! I so wish Hillary Clinton had won, then there would be no need for such soul searching....I truly find this question of loyalty - where to spend time on the day Trump is out of office regardless of what means achieve this - extremely stressful as it's very gritty, very real, and very telling of one's character at a level some here are not going to understand. So on the one hand, I'd be thrilled to have Trump out of office, regardless of the fact that Pence is bad news, too - on the other, my remorse due to Trump is loyalty remorse - to which nation do I owe my presence to more on whatever future day Trump is out of office? I called my Mom and she's stumped on this one, too - given what a safety valve Mexico has been to me it's not an easy question. I'm ambivalent on this one, I really am. Rob
PS This is Donald Trump at work for me - making my life perplexing at new and before this, at unheard of levels!
Yes, in order ti get the slave states to agree to rhe constitution they set us up for 200+ years of tyrany of the minority. Because after all. Why should the state that represents the soxth largest economy in the world have any say in the selection of the president?You have the same proportional say as any other state, it's just that your higher number of electoral votes were not enough to negate the other states.
I truly find this question of loyalty - where to spend time on the day Trump is out of office regardless of what means achieve this - extremely stressful as it's very gritty, very real, and very telling of one's character at a level some here are not going to understand.
That's really quite a First World Problem, wondering how best to express one's character by choice of party location.
Good luck with the selection!
You have the same proportional say as any other state, it's just that your higher number of electoral votes were not enough to negate the other states.
Than why dont the presidential candidates ever come to my state. And why are wyoming's voters seven times more important than me?
Than why dont the presidential candidates ever come to my state. And why are wyoming's voters seven times more important than me?Why waste resources on a sure thing? A little more ideological diversity would make California very popular.
Wyoming's 3 electoral votes are actually only 3 times more important than California's, although that's cancelled out by the District of Columbia's 3 electoral votes from roughly the same population.
Than why dont the presidential candidates ever come to my state.
Because you are a safe state for one party. Given limited time and money, there's little point to a candidate on either side spending much effort there.
The winner-takes-all scheme for electoral votes produces this effect.
Or we could modify our method of electing the president to one that doesnt enable a small handfull of states to decide who should be president of the entire country. Because, i repeat, a system where te candidates from both parties can safely ignore the needs of 38 million people and the sixth largest evonomy in the world is deeply flawed.
Or we could modify our method of electing the president to one that doesnt enable a small handfull of states to decide who should be president of the entire country. Because, i repeat, a system where te candidates from both parties can safely ignore the needs of 38 million people and the sixth largest evonomy in the world is deeply flawed.Eliminating the electoral college would do more to ensure that a small handful of states absolutely decide who should be president. The only difference is that your state would be one of them.
No, it would mean that all 100 whatever million people who vote have a say. The candidates wouldnt be able to cater to the 20 million or so residents of 'swing' states like they do now. I get it. You dont want to guve up your swing state privelege.
No, it would mean that all 100 whatever million people who vote have a say. The candidates wouldnt be able to cater to the 20 million or so residents of 'swing' states like they do now. I get it. You dont want to guve up your swing state privelege.
No, it's just that that's not how it works.
I suppose you could start a movement to change the constitution and hope to get a 3/5 majority of the states to go along with you, although I can't imagine the fly over states abdicating their influence, small as each may be. It worked to change the way Senators were chosen so it's not an entirely novel idea.
Speaking for myself, I think every state should be a swing state, it shows a level of ideological diversity which seems much healthier than the example of those few high population states you'd prefer run things.
Undoubtedly we have idealogical diversity here. It's just skewed further to the left than much of the rest of the country. Neither the left nor the right are monoliths of uniformity. There may be some commonalities among the majority of people in those two groups but as LDAHL has pointed out there are 320 million individual ideologies in this country.
Or we could modify our method of electing the president to one that doesnt enable a small handfull of states to decide who should be president of the entire country. Because, i repeat, a system where te candidates from both parties can safely ignore the needs of 38 million people and the sixth largest evonomy in the world is deeply flawed.
Your state could simply eliminate its winner-take-all allocation of electoral college votes. Not all states do it this way...
Of course, then everyone living in your state might have a proportional representation in the electoral college, so people would have to pay attention to more than just the wealthy urban centers.
flowerseverywhere
8-18-17, 10:24pm
This Presidency has unraveled to the point that I just had a serious discussion with my husband two hours ago: Where exactly do my loyalties lie when Trump is mercifully stripped of his office, however this comes to be? Do I spend all my time at the Neighborhood Block Party, feeding my neighbors with the dishes I've promised (and will follow through on, money is already set aside and budgeted for this so no debt will be incurred), or do I spend time in Mexico for the joyous celebrations there? I've already been invited to parties - taking place at whatever date Trump gets the heave-ho - in Colonia Kennedy, an upscale neighborhood in Nogales (on the Mexican side) where my husband has relatives. I owe Mexico so much as it's always been there for me with affordable medical and dental care - at times when my life was not worth this in the United States. I'm not one to forget such or be disloyal to such.
Ay carumba! I so wish Hillary Clinton had won, then there would be no need for such soul searching....I truly find this question of loyalty - where to spend time on the day Trump is out of office regardless of what means achieve this - extremely stressful as it's very gritty, very real, and very telling of one's character at a level some here are not going to understand. So on the one hand, I'd be thrilled to have Trump out of office, regardless of the fact that Pence is bad news, too - on the other, my remorse due to Trump is loyalty remorse - to which nation do I owe my presence to more on whatever future day Trump is out of office? I called my Mom and she's stumped on this one, too - given what a safety valve Mexico has been to me it's not an easy question. I'm ambivalent on this one, I really am. Rob
PS This is Donald Trump at work for me - making my life perplexing at new and before this, at unheard of levels!
Before you you get too excited think about this. If Trump resigns or otherwise does not fill his term Pence is first in line to take over. He is no dummy and he is very conservative and has contacts. It does not seem like he criticizes everyone he has to work with. Or shames them. I imagine he has been quietly working with conservatives behind the scenes on his "Christian" agenda. And because he has not been quoted all over the place and has managed to stay out of the limelight he could actually get a lot done. If you think it's bad now, a conservative Pence presidency with the house and the senate there could be much done that will whittle away at liberal policies. Things like LBGtQ rights, abortion, birth control for women, affirmative action, immigration, welfare, confederate statues, health insurance and so on.
Before you you get too excited think about this. If Trump resigns or otherwise does not fill his term Pence is first in line to take over. He is no dummy and he is very conservative and has contacts. It does not seem like he criticizes everyone he has to work with. Or shames them. I imagine he has been quietly working with conservatives behind the scenes on his "Christian" agenda. And because he has not been quoted all over the place and has managed to stay out of the limelight he could actually get a lot done. If you think it's bad now, a conservative Pence presidency with the house and the senate there could be much done that will whittle away at liberal policies. Things like LBGtQ rights, abortion, birth control for women, affirmative action, immigration, welfare, confederate statues, health insurance and so on.
Yes. This. Unlike trump's imcompetemce pence would 'get stuff done'. Unless impeachmemt also includes pence for some reason and possibly the midterms shifting power to the dems, impeachment doesnt make things better, just more stable.
gimmethesimplelife
8-19-17, 8:39am
Yes. This. Unlike trump's imcompetemce pence would 'get stuff done'. Unless impeachmemt also includes pence for some reason and possibly the midterms shifting power to the dems, impeachment doesnt make things better, just more stable.Here's my take on this: Ready to be surprised? I believe you and Flowerseverywhere are right, jp1. I especially agree with your line that removing Trump would not make things better but only more stable. This. Yes.
At this point, with my family in Austria worried so deeply for the safety of both myself and my Mom due to Trump having access to the nuclear codes and having his ego issues and having willingness to escalate conflict with North Korea.....I'll take my chances with stable. Have a cousin you are close to and that you care about such as my Cousin Astrid in Vienna cry on the phone and tell you to be like the Jews that left Europe in World War 2 and lived because of this choice (the ones that saw the writing on the wall and left early while it was still possible to do so, Billy Wilder of Hollywood movie fame would be an example).....maybe then you would be all about stability too even though a Pence regime would be an absolute nightmare for the safety net and for human rights/Constitutional rights in general (and please I understand that I get a Pence regime would be). I would however believe that Pence would be more stable around the nuclear codes and I see this now as a situation of survival rather than mere political preference.
I very much see the current GOP leadership (Trump, Pence, and Ryan) as absolute nightmares hell bent on destroying any hope for future for America and Americans unless they are at the top of the pyramid - once again, I look at this in terms of survival only, realizing that many people may end of leaving the United States down the road as it becomes less and less viable as a country - my wish is to have Trump removed mostly to remove his instabilities from having access to the nuclear codes. That and at least Pence knows how to behave himself and conduct himself in public even if his politics would destroy America from within - better this than the end of the human race. But I also understand that it's easy for me to say this as I don't have much hope if any for America and it's future - I'm just very unemotional and very much relentlessly practical about things now. Rob
And lucky us, Rob, Trump's coming to Phoenix next week for a rally. Not sure if it's because we are McCain's state or what.
Ugh.
gimmethesimplelife
8-19-17, 8:23pm
And lucky us, Rob, Trump's coming to Phoenix next week for a rally. Not sure if it's because we are McCain's state or what.
Ugh.LOL Lucky us indeed. Here's an interesting bit of news: Trump is coming to Phoenix next Tuesday, and he will be appearing at the Convention Center where I work banquets for a temp service. I had that day off and the temp service called me today, begging me to work that day at the Convention Center. They were willing to offer me $18 an hour to work that day as so many other temp banquet servers flat out refused to work that day - including my husband (which isn't especially relevant to my point). When I declined, explaining now that so many people, even in fairly conservative Phoenix despise Donald Trump now and that I would worry for my physically safety were I to pick up any shifts while Trump was on site, the temp service bumped the offer to $21 an hour, then to $25 an hour. Part of me wanted to keep the scheduler going and see how high the number would climb, but I like this person and she's been good to me so I spared her that and just stated that no amount of money would get to me to work the Convention Center while Trump was on site. No matter how high the number was - NO!
Beyond that, I wonder what he's doing in Arizona? He's had issues with both John McCain (who pretty much devastated Trump's last effort at repealing ObamaCare) AND our Jeff Flake, too - he is not as well liked in Arizona now as he was during election day given the many issues he's caused and given also that Arizona is not as rabidly conservative as it once was. Something else that must gall Trump or at least his advisors - Flagstaff is very blue, as is most of Tucson and Santa Cruz County, a tiny county on border with Mexico that has Nogales, AZ as it's County Seat - is overwhelmingly blue. There are swatches of this state in which he is most unwelcome - this is not a hard core complete Conservative state these days. Imported money from California and folks relocating from the liberal Northeastern states have changed things here over the past thirty years or so.
Trump may not get quite the warm welcome he might be expecting. That, and the fact that he is threatening to pardon Arpaio? More folks than you think in Arizona will consider that a hostile act of aggression. Should be an interesting day for Phoenix next Tuesday but I'm ducking and running for cover by staying the (expletive) away from downtown and working on my yard that day.....Rob
Knowing trump's style it wouldnt surprise me if he's going to phoenix to announce the pardon of sheriff joe. And will have him on hand for the event. Call him a real american hero and all that.
Ultralight
8-24-17, 7:51am
I continue to sad-LOL at Trump and his Trumpkins. What folly!
I continue to sad-LOL at Trump and his Trumpkins. What folly!
We live in a time of hysterical folly. Pro-and-anti-Trump derangement. "Tens of thousands will die!" "You must be against him or you're with him!" A veritable war on the dead, now extending to Columbus statuary. Ann Coulter. Lindy West. ESPN pulling an announcer from a Virginia football game because he's named Robert Lee. Secessionist fantasies, left and right. "He's not my president!" Nazis, Antifa and other costumed goonery. The sad decline of late-night comedy into sermonizers and scolds, with parody overtaken by reality. Hashtag activists and keyboard warriors. Mobs of idiot children raised to believe politics is a religion brimming with sin but lacking in redemption. Snowflakes, deplorables and bitter clingers.
I hope this turns out to be just one of those decades we feel embarrassed about (like the seventies). I'd hate to think we are in permanent decline.
Nicely-written polemic, LDAHL.
The seventies were by far my favorite decade so far; a lot of good came out of them. I guess I'm just one of those "idiot children."
Actually, you've given me hope that this will be another decade from which we managed to wrest real, lasting change. What is that old saw about breaking eggs?
catherine
8-24-17, 10:50am
Nicely-written polemic, LDAHL.
The seventies were by far my favorite decade so far; a lot of good came out of them. I guess I'm just one of those "idiot children."
Actually, you've given me hope that this will be another decade from which we managed to wrest real, lasting change. What is that old saw about breaking eggs?
I was trying to say pretty much the same thing--about breaking eggs--but you said it so well and so pithily (as always), I cancelled mine and will simple add a +1 to yours. I also agree that I love how LDAHL characterized the decade. Pretty spot on.
The self-indulgent, self-righteous, self-destructive politics of the Me Decade in many ways resemble today’s situation. The economy was sunk in a deep stagflationary slough of despond. The crime of the 1970s puts today’s in the shade for ubiquity and viciousness. The Weathermen and SLA murdered people in the name of bizarre ideologies. Gimcrack religions and beliefs, both of the traditional and New Age variety were endemic. Tehran mobs gloated over their hostages. Many people still took Marxism seriously and others thought price controls were a good idea. We had Nixon. We had Carter. Paul Erlich and others preached doom. The movies and popular music were excruciatingly dreadful. Nazis were on the march.
As far as I’m concerned, the best thing about the seventies was that they led to the Reagan Revolution. Whether there is some new figure in the wings who can make people believe the rot can be reversed and we need not apologize for being Americans remains to be seen.
catherine
8-24-17, 12:13pm
The self-indulgent, self-righteous, self-destructive politics of the Me Decade in many ways resemble today’s situation. The economy was sunk in a deep stagflationary slough of despond. The crime of the 1970s puts today’s in the shade for ubiquity and viciousness. The Weathermen and SLA murdered people in the name of bizarre ideologies. Gimcrack religions and beliefs, both of the traditional and New Age variety were endemic. Tehran mobs gloated over their hostages. Many people still took Marxism seriously and others thought price controls were a good idea. We had Nixon. We had Carter. Paul Erlich and others preached doom. The movies and popular music were excruciatingly dreadful. Nazis were on the march.
As far as I’m concerned, the best thing about the seventies was that they led to the Reagan Revolution. Whether there is some new figure in the wings who can make people believe the rot can be reversed and we need not apologize for being Americans remains to be seen.
I guess it depends on which lens you are looking through. I would not give the Weather Underground and the SLA credit for defining the decade. You think their "terrorism" was worse than what we're facing now?
And what's wrong with New Age religion? What crime? Was it worse than the crime engendered by prohibition in the 20s? What's wrong with Marxism? What's wrong with Carter? Sure he wasn't the best president, but he was a very decent man, unlike our current Commander-In-Chief. People are still preaching doom: The Muslims Are Going to Kill All of Us!!!!! White People Are Endangered!!!!
Movies (http://www.listchallenges.com/100-greatest-movies-of-the-1970s) and music (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Billboard_Hot_100_number-one_singles_of_the_1970s) were awesome.
What Nazis???
Sorry, LDAHL, but I think you lived through a different 70s entirely. I loved my Carole King, my Elton John, Jimmy Carter; SNL; the increasing equality for women and minorities; the fact that I actually would be able to achieve my career goals, unlike my mother; banning tobacco ads; finally pulling out of that god-awful Vietnam War; and I was able to take my higher earnings as a woman working at a REAL career at NBC and buy my own Diane Von Furstenberg wrap dress.
You beat me to it, Catherine. Equal pay for equal work, minority rights, closet doors slowly opening a crack, the sexual revolution and birth control, the end to the stupid, destructive Viet Nam war--where a whole lot more people died on both sides than anything "terrorism" or the Weather Underground could ever take credit for. It really was liberating, and the arts reflected that.
I guess it depends on which lens you are looking through. I would not give the Weather Underground and the SLA credit for defining the decade. You think their "terrorism" was worse than what we're facing now?
And what's wrong with New Age religion? What crime? Was it worse than the crime engendered by prohibition in the 20s? What's wrong with Marxism? What's wrong with Carter? Sure he wasn't the best president, but he was a very decent man, unlike our current Commander-In-Chief. People are still preaching doom: The Muslims Are Going to Kill All of Us!!!!! White People Are Endangered!!!!
Movies (http://www.listchallenges.com/100-greatest-movies-of-the-1970s) and music (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Billboard_Hot_100_number-one_singles_of_the_1970s) were awesome.
What Nazis???
Sorry, LDAHL, but I think you lived through a different 70s entirely. I loved my Carole King, my Elton John, Jimmy Carter; SNL; the increasing equality for women and minorities; the fact that I actually would be able to achieve my career goals, unlike my mother; banning tobacco ads; finally pulling out of that god-awful Vietnam War; and I was able to take my higher earnings as a woman working at a REAL career at NBC and buy my own Diane Von Furstenberg wrap dress.
My point was that most thinking people will look back on the teens the way most thinking people think of the seventies: a good decade to put behind us, and for many of the same reasons.
And please, the only thing worse than the treacly confessional singer-songwriter phenomenon was Disco, the musical equivalent of lip gloss. Nothing like the creative flowering of the eighties. Devo. Holly and the Italians. The B-52s. The Pretenders. The Talking Heads. Black Flag. Elvis Costello.
What Nazis? You never heard of Skokie? Illinois Nazis and the ACLU? You should google it or watch the Blues Brothers.
As to crime, pre-Giuliani New York was a combination slaughterhouse and open sewer.
My point was that most thinking people will look back on the teens the way most thinking people think of the seventies: a good decade to put behind us, and for many of the same reasons. ....
What Nazis? You never heard of Skokie? Illinois Nazis and the ACLU? You should google it or watch the Blues Brothers.
As to crime, pre-Giuliani New York was a combination slaughterhouse and open sewer.
One march in Illinois hardly rivals the current resurgence of the alt.right. Every time you think Nazi ideology is in its death throes, here it comes again--just like Freddy Krueger.
"Most thinking people?" :doh: The seventies represent a time when the citizenry stood up and made real social progress--the very opposite of what is happening under Trump. It remains to be seen if his corrupt, toxic regime results in a backlash that enriches us all. Or if his brand of evil will set us back a generation or more.
(My memory didn't serve me, so I looked up the Weather Underground. I knew they generated a lot of ink at the time. With all their bomb-throwing (literally), their one casualty was a peace officer named Walter Schroeder, cravenly shot from behind by ex-con William Gilday. Indefensible, but nothing compared to the damage inflicted by Viet Nam, which reverberates to this day.
(My memory didn't serve me, so I looked up the Weather Underground. I knew they generated a lot of ink at the time. With all their bomb-throwing (literally), their one casualty was a peace officer named Walter Schroeder, cravenly shot from behind by ex-con William Gilday. Indefensible, but nothing compared to the damage inflicted by Viet Nam, which reverberates to this day.
Exactly, and then there's the SLA who would have gotten NO press whatsoever if they hadn't kidnapped Patty Hearst.
Ultralight
8-24-17, 4:25pm
My point was that most thinking people will look back on the teens the way most thinking people think of the seventies: a good decade to put behind us, and for many of the same reasons.
Dude! Disco is great (if you learn a few dance steps)! And what a libertine decade! No AIDS, antibiotics worked like a charm, and birth control was in fashion!
I'd much prefer to have spent my youth in the 1970s than in the 2000s.
Exactly, and then there's the SLA who would have gotten NO press whatsoever if they hadn't kidnapped Patty Hearst.
Any violence that a tiny minority on the left may have generated pales by a factor of thousands when compared to the endless warmongering of the right, IMO.
Dude! Disco is great (if you learn a few dance steps)! And what a libertine decade! No AIDS, antibiotics worked like a charm, and birth control was in fashion!
I'd much prefer to have spent my youth in the 1970s than in the 2000s.
No! No! You're better than that!
Disco culture reduced music to mere rhythm, romance to mere sex, human contact to mere display and the deepest yearnings of the human heart to mere status anxiety. It substituted conformity and narcissism for poetry and passion. I lived through those dark days, and I thank God America came to its senses before it was too late. I literally saw it make good people stupid.
No! No! You're better than that!
Disco culture reduced music to mere rhythm, romance to mere sex, human contact to mere display and the deepest yearnings of the human heart to mere status anxiety. It substituted conformity and narcissism for poetry and passion. I lived through those dark days, and I thank God America came to its senses before it was too late. I literally saw it make good people stupid.
So what music of today do you consider so transcendent?
So what music of today do you consider so transcendent?
My lawn mower produces music more transcendent than disco, but I checked my CD changer and see Claire Martin, Dave Frishberg, John Lee Hooker, Terry Blaine, Keb Mo and Eleni Mandel. I'm not sure most of that qualifies a "music of today", though.
My lawn mower produces music more transcendent than disco, but I checked my CD changer and see Claire Martin, Dave Frishberg, John Lee Hooker, Terry Blaine, Keb Mo and Eleni Mandel. I'm not sure most of that qualifies a "music of today", though.
Whoa! CD Changer??? That's so 1995...
Dude! Disco is great (if you learn a few dance steps)! And what a libertine decade! No AIDS, antibiotics worked like a charm, and birth control was in fashion!
I'd much prefer to have spent my youth in the 1970s than in the 2000s.
My sixth grade teacher (1980) would bring in disco records every friday and we would spend the last hour of the school week learning how to dance. Judging from how I dance she probably should have brought her records in more often...
Whoa! CD Changer??? That's so 1995...
I tried downloading music, but it put too much strain on my modem.
What can I tell you, I hang on to old stuff that still works for me. My grandfather's tools. My HP12C. My wife. The Bill of Rights.
My sixth grade teacher (1980) would bring in disco records every friday and we would spend the last hour of the school week learning how to dance. Judging from how I dance she probably should have brought her records in more often...
What a terrible thing to do to a child!
Mine whacked us with a ruler. I think I got the better deal.
ApatheticNoMore
8-25-17, 9:56am
people's experience of their youth, actually sometimes has no larger political relevance (at least student loans or something does). Birth control is more effective (some flawed pills back then) now than it was then, and some of it safer now as well. Whatever the 70s were, I can sure assure you that growing up in the decades that followed very little that was positive was left over. It is fairer to blame Reaganism than the 70s as without that everything would be much more postiive, however given that in the mix it all kind of becomes a muddle (I mean I think things became mutual reinforcing in some cases or in other cases generated such a bad counterreaction that we lived with the mess). Women are free to support themselves but the job market and economic conditions in which they must became ever more brutal.
I tried downloading music, but it put too much strain on my modem.
What can I tell you, I hang on to old stuff that still works for me. My grandfather's tools. My HP12C. My wife. The Bill of Rights.
I hope you remember to rewind the tapes before you take them back to Blockbuster.
iris lilies
8-25-17, 11:06am
I hope you remember to rewind the tapes before you take them back to Blockbuster.
Come now, Ldahl is kind.
Come now, Ldahl is kind.
Indeed. I'm sure he'd rewind them even without a sticker imploring him "Be kind. Rewind."
I hope you remember to rewind the tapes before you take them back to Blockbuster.
I gave up on Blockbuster. I could never get their tapes to run on my Betamax.
I gave up on Blockbuster. I could never get their tapes to run on my Betamax.Talk about buyers remorse, I'm still irritated that VHS became the consumer standard over Beta. I think Mr Franklin would have said "Those who give up video quality to obtain a little more storage space deserve neither".
gimmethesimplelife
8-25-17, 11:55am
he may not be all bad or his administration anyway, NAFTA renegotiating plans don't sound all bad from what I understand. But maybe someone knows all the details on that better, as the devil is *always* snuck in the details in those types of things, and I'm no expert there.
Yes of course, he's *mostly* bad, I just said perhaps not all. But both parties are really in total disarray (although the Dems aren't even able to hold almost any even nominal power). And on the Dem side they still have pretty much no real positive program to offer (as the NAFTA stuff reminds me - how the Dems love trade agreements even though they just seem another factor in everything getting worse). But they plan to beat trump with nothing I suppose. Could happen but might not, if so and they win on a platform of nothing, then Trump will have lowered the bar so much that noone is even hoping for anything at all positive from voting anymore, not a positive development really.ANM - I voted for Hillary Clinton (no great surprise for you'all there at this point, no LOL?) - with one of the main reasons being that Hillary Clinton would not bash Mexico as Trump did/continues to do....thereby potentially putting at risk access to affordable health and dental care located right across the border that is a lifeline for so many Americans, especially those needing expensive procedures and/or those is low-wage border states. My point here is that I am so disillusioned with US politics that one of my chief reasons for voting that way I did was I was afraid that access to health care in a FOREIGN country might be cut off - that says A LOT about how much faith I have in the United States when you get right down to it. For those of you who don't get this - A). Be glad you don't but realize that your financial situation could change in the blink of an eye and you are not immune from understanding this at a later date, and B). I was far from the only vote for Hillary Clinton cast for this very reason. Certainly I'm far from the only one disillusioned to this level. Rob
I remember paying $1000 for a JVC vcr around 1980. And then had to pay $100 just to have a membership to rent videos.
i was looking hard at he Sony Betamax, but they did not have much of a selection of movies to rent.
catherine
8-25-17, 12:16pm
Talk about buyers remorse, I'm still irritated that VHS became the consumer standard over Beta. I think Mr Franklin would have said "Those who give up video quality to obtain a little more storage space deserve neither".
Really! I pay $3.99/mo on Amazon to hire Alexa to get me pretty much any music I want. I'm 100% digital music. And I'll order up folk music, classical, and of course the Beatles. But sometimes something a little different like Radiohead. I have to figure out how to get Alexa to recognize my son's songs, though.
Really! I pay $3.99/mo on Amazon to hire Alexa to get me pretty much any music I want. I'm 100% digital music. And I'll order up folk music, classical, and of course the Beatles. But sometimes something a little different like Radiohead. I have to figure out how to get Alexa to recognize my son's songs, though.
I've been considering developing a mutually satisfactory relationship with Alexa, however my wife says I already spend too much time with Siri and Cortana. I think more deliberation is in order.
Ultralight
9-15-17, 7:38am
I guess the Trumpillians are feeling the regret...
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/09/14/trump-voters-throw-maga-hats-twitter-bonfire/
They are apparently throwing their MAGA hats into bonfires...
gimmethesimplelife
9-15-17, 9:34am
I guess the Trumpillians are feeling the regret...
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/09/14/trump-voters-throw-maga-hats-twitter-bonfire/
They are apparently throwing their MAGA hats into bonfires...Thank You for posting this! The images of the MAGA hats burning is inspirational and really makes my day. Rob
Ultralight
11-2-17, 7:52am
Have we reached the point where Trump supporters are regretting their vote yet?
Any day now...
Have we reached the point where Trump supporters are regretting their vote yet?
Any day now...
If you're expecting sackcloth, ashes and self-flagellation, I imagine you'll be waiting a long time.
Williamsmith
11-2-17, 9:10am
Have we reached the point where Trump supporters are regretting their vote yet?
Any day now...
You need to get out more. Trump supporters have never been happier. It’s not about him as a person......it’s about making the establishment uncomfortable, if possible on a daily basis. His base is rock solid despite what you will read or see in establishment owned media.
ApatheticNoMore
11-2-17, 10:32am
It's about making the establishment uncomfortable, so Trump supporters seem like they have never mentally matured beyond rebellious teenagers, actually if that, maybe they have never mentally matured beyond two year olds who have just learned to say "no". If so it's just not a good look on a grown adult.
There is really no other way to characterize not caring about what happens to public poilcy, that is a commons we all have to share, and just being rebels without a cause as it were.
And why rebel in that way anyway? I guess it's like "why kick the dog after a bad day at work?" or something, because they are there, and they take the abuse.
(* I have never kicked any dogs and some of them might fight back, it's just an example of taking anger out randomly in destructive ways because you can't challenge anyone with any real immediate power over you)
Williamsmith
11-2-17, 10:38am
It's about making the establishment uncomfortable, so Trump supported seem like they have never mentally matured beyond rebellious teenagers, actually if that, maybe they have never mentally matured beyond two year olds who have just learned to say "no". If so it's just not a good look on a grown adult. There is really no other way to characterize not caring about what happens to public poilcy, and just being rebels without a cause as it were.
All the more embarrassing for the establishment on both sides....having been whipped at the polls by a bunch of deplorable terrible two year olds clinging to their past.
Teacher Terry
11-2-17, 1:14pm
I find the whole thing incredibly sad.
What difference has he made in your personal life? I have seen no difference in my day to day living.
What difference has he made in your personal life?
In my family, we aren't getting together anymore. My sister's boyfriend, who has always been kind of obnoxious, is now in everyone's face spouting racist, misogynist, hateful rhetoric that he used to keep to himself. When we have to do family events, some of us make sure there will be others there, so that they aren't the recipient of this man's hatred. Since our leader in chief says these things, it must be ok, right?
Ultralight
11-2-17, 8:27pm
Fun times in America!
frugal-one
11-2-17, 9:30pm
What difference has he made in your personal life? I have seen no difference in my day to day living.
Stress with his foolish tweeting.... i.e. irritating the lunatic in North Korea is a PRIME example! I could go on and on but will leave it at this.
I remember when Trump was running for Pres and he said "I could kill someone and they still would vote for me." The same mentality prevails now. No matter what he does you make excuses and say it is ok. Sick!
What difference has he made in your personal life?
Dinner parties have become almost unbearable, what with everyone yammering on about Trump's issues.
To be fair, at the big CIA/OSS shindig last week, they only mentioned Trump's name once, during the mandatory toast to the Commander-in-Chief, so that was a nice change. And the band was great!
https://i.imgur.com/Ai6VSdD.jpg
ApatheticNoMore
11-3-17, 12:20am
any change in day to day life would probably be felt in the long term, so it requires thinking about the long term (well that is changes in POLICY, like undermining the EPA and it's effect on pollution and that effect on people over the long run. If it has made people's existing social life unbearable, sorry to hear it, though I don't tend to hang around with Trump supporters).
You need to get out more. Trump supporters have never been happier. It’s not about him as a person......it’s about making the establishment uncomfortable, if possible on a daily basis. His base is rock solid despite what you will read or see in establishment owned media.
Do they realize that at 33% approval/62% disapproval that they have become irrelevant? For one wacky moment they took control. They got him elected. But due to his corruption/incompetence that moment has passed. And will never happen again. They can be as rock stupid as they want. But it's over. The only question now is if their stupid f'ckery will destroy the country before he finally goes away.
flowerseverywhere
11-3-17, 7:08am
I am in the middle of a very pro Trump area. I know many people who still think he is the best thing that has happened to America. So I started asking them why. Here are some of their answers
we need to deport all these illegal immigrants who bring or have babies here that we end up supporting. They put their kids in schools Taxpayers pay for, and drag them down by requiring special eel instruction. Their kids can get free medical care, free school lunch and food stamps and eventually end up in gangs. They believe many are criminals and drug dealers. As far as DACA, only with no chain migration. If you want to be with your family, go back to your home country. Also end the preferred visa program. Replace with merit based migration. Send us your smartest, most well educated and wealthiest. I might add whitest.
Finally someone is sanding up to North Korea.
Some believe our various trade agreements favor the other countries and that is why good jobs are so hard to get.
He he needs to drain the swamp of all the special interest lobbyists. You will see a lot of this in the new tax bill. Many are lining up right now to harass the representatives they gave money to because they want their own little carve outs left in.
Get rid of Obamacare and the mandate you have to have insurance as unconstitutional. Let free markets work.
Death penalty or Gitmo for any terrorist type activity.
Shut it down the NFL because they are not “patriotic enough” to fire the anthem kneelers, or so the draft dodger says.
Manaforts alleged crimes are part of a witch hunt that has nothing to do with Trump. The real criminal, Hillary is running free.
Twitter lets the president tell it like it like it is with the liberal media bias out of the picture.
Leave our our guns alone. If you take them the police and military can take over at any time.
Can i I see some of their points? At least some I can understand why they feel it is an issue. Do I agree? On very little. We need immigration reform. We need to sort out healthcare and tax reform. But my ideas on those subjects are vastly different than theirs for the most part. Plus I really hate the twitter thing.
What difference has he made in your personal life? I have seen no difference in my day to day living.
Probably 2/3 of the people I associate with are what some might scornfully refer to as "Establishment Republicans". There seems to be a fairly broad consensus that Trump is bad for the Party, both because of his personal obnoxiousness and because his inability to get out of his own way has made it so difficult to advance the GOP agenda despite decisive majorities at the federal, state and local levels. A great opportunity is being squandered. That affects us all. As one friend put it, "Romney is looking pretty good to me right now."
On the positive side, the general perception is that the opposition has become so unhinged by Trump that they will be running against him long after he departs the scene. My argument has been that a boring, generic Republican could do very well against either a quasi-socialist or identity politics messiah fighting the last war (provided he or she could survive the primaries).
Overall, he is viewed here as an egotistical incompetent but not some satanic figure summoning up demons and anecdotal nasty relatives from the infernal regions.
What difference has he made in your personal life?
He at least hasn't messed with social security or medicare and failed at Obamacare repeal. His tax bill is better than I expected even though it's digging a hole of debt all the way to China. Policy wise some of his cohorts in the primaries could have been worse. He's just a bad person.
Williamsmith
11-3-17, 10:18am
Do they realize that at 33% approval/62% disapproval that they have become irrelevant? For one wacky moment they took control. They got him elected. But due to his corruption/incompetence that moment has passed. And will never happen again. They can be as rock stupid as they want. But it's over. The only question now is if their stupid f'ckery will destroy the country before he finally goes away.
Your words say it’s over but you imply he still has enough juice to thouroughly screw up the country. I don’t see a stick of evidence that Trumps Presidency is in jeopardy. I don’t accept any poll numbers for face value. Especially from any of the participants in the electoral polling process. They blew it bigly failing to predict Trumps election.
Wall Street seems to be liking Trump. Retirees with nest eggs in the market should be liking that. I suspect that three years from now lots of people will be projecting a landslide victory for the Democratic nominee. The hardcore Trumpers are easy to tabulate. But there are plenty of secret admirers who will bash Trump to the face of others and pull the lever next to his name in the election. They’ve been taught how to keep their prejudices counterfeited. After all, if we all didn’t realize this.....there wouldn’t be any angry attacks on him. It would be all but over.....but it’s not.
frugal-one
11-3-17, 3:51pm
I guess people will just back a person (as noted above) because they say they are a Republican (conservative whatever).... no matter what they say or do. I read in today's paper about a few politicians bashing each other because one did not back up Trump. The other said he was hurting the Party. I don't get this mentality???? I think you need to look at the person and decide if he represents the Party. If not, he does not deserve your loyalty!
ToomuchStuff
11-4-17, 12:05pm
I guess people will just back a person (as noted above) because they say they are a Republican (conservative whatever).... no matter what they say or do.
Didn't he once say he identified more as a democrat? Weren't there other people saying they were republican/conservative? They why didn't they get that backing?
I think your missing the anti establishment/politician sentiment, that goes back to at least the Perot days, probably long before (I wasn't watching every presidential thing as a kid, and have only lived for so long).
I think they did look at the person, and it was a statement to BOTH parties.
frugal-one
11-4-17, 8:30pm
Didn't he once say he identified more as a democrat? Weren't there other people saying they were republican/conservative? They why didn't they get that backing?
I think your missing the anti establishment/politician sentiment, that goes back to at least the Perot days, probably long before (I wasn't watching every presidential thing as a kid, and have only lived for so long).
I think they did look at the person, and it was a statement to BOTH parties.
I don't get what you are saying????
ToomuchStuff
11-5-17, 12:03am
Are you saying people backed Trump, because he claimed he was a Republican?
Trump also once claimed to be a Democrat.
Others, said they are Republican and didn't get the support.
Trump did get on a parties ticket, but in a lot of ways, he shakes things up. Kind of the way Perot did in a prior election, except Perot never made it into one of the two primary parties. People voted for him, because he was a shake up and said things they wanted to here, not political two step.
Now, Trump does the two step, and politicians are frustrated by it, the way lots of citizens feel by politicians in general.
frugal-one
11-5-17, 2:22am
Are you saying people backed Trump, because he claimed he was a Republican?
My point is/was that some people will CONTINUE to back a candidate no matter what they do (in this case Trump) based solely on the Party they are affiliated with. I know people who are Trump “backers” who no longer watch the news admittedly because they can’t stand (or justify) what comes out of his mouth. I don’t get blind loyalty!
Williamsmith
11-5-17, 9:10am
“The Silent Majority......Stands With Trump.”
Last night I sat with two hundred people at a Sportmans Club cash bash and gun raffle. Undoubtedly, this building contained a large proportion of the 33% who grant Trump their approval. The elite media would have one believe these people do not exist, chosing rather to focus on opinions of those “disapproving” implied rational beings.
That their love of the outdoors and the shooting sports necessarily are conjoined with politics is more a function of reacting to assaults on their 2nd amendment than anything else. But to talk to these people you would get the full political spectrum of why they still support Trump. And support Trump...they do.
Immigration, The Wall (doesn’t matter who pays for it), HILLARY, health care reform, world standing, jobs, ambivalence and downright rejection of the Russian investigation, each topic ......they havent changed their minds one wit. One even pointed out that Reagan, had approval numbers lower than Trump and rebounded to be re-elected in a landslide.
Now I could go on explaining this apparent contradiction between fantasy (buyers remorse) and realty but I will let the following article speak for itself. It’s four months old and in politics that’s a long time but it still rings true in the Rust Belt today.
https://amgreatness.com/2017/07/25/polls-dont-tell-tale-trumps-support-deep-here2/
early morning
11-5-17, 11:58am
Williamsmith, i know the same sort of rust belt, sportsman club member type people you do - a lot of them are my relatives. And I'm talking about my extended family here, because they are typical of this neck of the woods. In many ways they are good people - hard working, family oriented, God and Country. Would do anything for you (if you fit their idea of family). In my family, we've have seen a lot of good jobs leaving, but few of us ever had those jobs. We see immigration on the news, but are only slightly impacted by it. Immigration from southeast Asia and Africa bothers most of them more than those from Latin-America, because they don't get close enough to notice those, while the "others" stand out from a distance - although they rant on about building that damn wall. So, ok, good people but in some ways not - they are racist although they deny it, hated Obama because he was a liberal (but really because he was black) - liberal he surely wasn't! And I know - I'm a liberal. Guns are part of it. Lack of experience outside of this part of the country is part of it. Unrealistic expectations of what the government should/should not provide (whey THEY need and want is important and should be funded; what others may need/want is stupid and unwarranted and outside the Constitution) and how it should be paid for. And overall, they love Trump, mostly because they want to see (insert racist/homophobic/misogynistic/nasty adjective of the day) OTHERS - in the words of my preacher cousin- "ground into the dirt". So yeah, they will continue to support him. The more he acts like them, the more they love it.
Williamsmith, i know the same sort of rust belt, sportsman club member type people you do - a lot of them are my relatives. And I'm talking about my extended family here, because they are typical of this neck of the woods. In many ways they are good people - hard working, family oriented, God and Country. Would do anything for you (if you fit their idea of family). In my family, we've have seen a lot of good jobs leaving, but few of us ever had those jobs. We see immigration on the news, but are only slightly impacted by it. Immigration from southeast Asia and Africa bothers most of them more than those from Latin-America, because they don't get close enough to notice those, while the "others" stand out from a distance - although they rant on about building that damn wall. So, ok, good people but in some ways not - they are racist although they deny it, hated Obama because he was a liberal (but really because he was black) - liberal he surely wasn't! And I know - I'm a liberal. Guns are part of it. Lack of experience outside of this part of the country is part of it. Unrealistic expectations of what the government should/should not provide (whey THEY need and want is important and should be funded; what others may need/want is stupid and unwarranted and outside the Constitution) and how it should be paid for. And overall, they love Trump, mostly because they want to see (insert racist/homophobic/misogynistic/nasty adjective of the day) OTHERS - in the words of my preacher cousin- "ground into the dirt". So yeah, they will continue to support him. The more he acts like them, the more they love it.
The problem with this view is that to accept it you have to believe that a large portion of the country are hopelessly ignorant racists. You in fact need to construct a stereotype of loutish gun-toting bigots as a sort of progressive's version of "welfare queens". I think the situation that produced Trump is a lot more complex than that.
The problem with this view is that to accept it you have to believe that a large portion of the country are hopelessly ignorant racists. You in fact need to construct a stereotype of loutish gun-toting bigots as a sort of progressive's version of "welfare queens". I think the situation that produced Trump is a lot more complex than that.
So are you saying that early morning doesn't know her relatives very well? The difference between what she described and Reagan's mythical welfare queen is that early morning actually knows these people and presumably interacts with them. They aren't some fictitious characters.
So are you saying that early morning doesn't know her relatives very well?
I'm saying she's imputing motives and attitudes ("although they deny it") to her relatives as well as a broad cross-section of the country that reflect a gross oversimplification of a complicated phenomenon. That is the problem with the politics of group identity.
early morning
11-6-17, 3:46pm
imputing motives and attitudes ("although they deny it") to her relatives as No, they ARE racist, that's not something I'm "imputing motives and attitudes", whatever you mean by that - my cousins will rant about some minority or gays or anther religious group (including other Christian denominations) and then say but it's not like I'm racist or anything!! And I think they really believe that. and of COURSE it's complicated, even in our family dynamics it's complicated. But it's more about CHANGE than real harm, in my family's case. And they love Trump because in their minds he is JUST LIKE THEM, only richer. AND THAT'S WHAT'S SO FREAKING FRIGHTENING. I don't WANT someone like them leading our country! I don't even want someone like ME. I want someone BETTER than I am, than they are.
My first BF, BF#1 we'll call him, grew up in small city trump country. I dated him for long enough to get taken to visit his family a number of times over the course of several years. When I read early morning's description I felt like I could have written the exact same thing about BF#1's family. They were nice people and never treated me any way other than kindly and, as they got to know me, with open arms. The thing I most remember about them was how fearful they were of outsiders. Both fearful in a "it's dangerous to go to the big city because those people will hurt you" way and also in a "the big fancy pants people want to take advantage of us" way. They certainly wouldn't have considered themselves racists. And they would never have considered going to a white supremecy rally or into a black church with a gun to start killing people. But on the other hand their fear of others, and lack of much experience outside their small world had left them with some pretty negative and, in my opinion, unfounded views of people who weren't like them.
early morning
11-6-17, 5:16pm
They were nice people and never treated me any way other than kindly and, as they got to know me, with open arms. yes, EXACTLY. But their acceptance of you did not necessarily mean they were fine with anyone else who is gay. You were brought in by family and thus were part of that family. At least that's how it is in my family. Again, good people BUT. Fearful is a good way to put it. And LDAHL, you really need to stop thinking that just because someone is a liberal means they are always anti-gun. If you knew me, you'd know that my ahem - dainties drawer has a dual function - that's are where I stash the extra ammo I want close at hand. And I'm a pretty good shot, for a liberal.:D
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