View Full Version : LGBT rights in the USA today...
I’m doing my best to raise him to be strong and comfortable enough in his own self to make virtue signaling and identify politics irrelevant in his life.
You’d probably do better to teach him to hide deep deep in the closet and learn how to present as cis. Otherwise he's: going to live life as a target just like every other LGBTQ person in America. Being comfortable in one’s skin isn’t particularly helpful for remaining safe when the Republican hate speech fueled bullies come into one’s safe spaces and start firing guns indiscriminately.
Being comfortable in one’s skin isn’t particularly helpful for remaining safe when the Republican hate speech fueled bullies come into one’s safe spaces and start firing guns indiscriminately.
His son says he's a progressive greenie, his actions say he's crazy. Damn Republicans!
flowerseverywhere
12-16-22, 8:23am
Texas creating trans registry?
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/12/14/ken-paxton-transgender-texas-data/
if this is true, it is perhaps one of the most frightening things I’ve read. No data is secure these days.
iris lilies
12-16-22, 11:25am
Texas creating trans registry?
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/12/14/ken-paxton-transgender-texas-data/
if this is true, it is perhaps one of the most frightening things I’ve read. No data is secure these days.
Agreed, I do not like this action.
pinkytoe
12-16-22, 11:35am
The scary thing to me is that Texans keep re-electing these same guys and the politics there are one of the main reasons we are not in a hurry to move back. I just don't get the governor and AGs obsession with trans individuals.
Teacher Terry
12-16-22, 4:23pm
Like usual Texas is up to no good.
Texas creating trans registry?
https://www.texastribune.org/2022/12/14/ken-paxton-transgender-texas-data/
if this is true, it is perhaps one of the most frightening things I’ve read. No data is secure these days.
Interestingly, there doesn't seem to be any written request for this information anywhere within the state government. Weird!
His son says he's a progressive greenie, his actions say he's crazy. Damn Republicans!
Who’s a progressive greenie? The club Q shooter? The one whose dad was relieved that his son is only a mass murderer but not a fag? The one who had posted tons of maga screeds online? Is that the guy you’re claiming is a greenie?
Republicans are more likely to be like the head of the NY college republicans who, at a recent event with Marjorie Taylor Green, channeled his inner-Goebbels, saying that they were in favor of total war. But I guess he had to outdo Green, who at the same event said that if she had been the traitor in charge of invading the capitol on J6 they would not have failed at overthrowing the government.
The scary thing to me is that Texans keep re-electing these same guys and the politics there are one of the main reasons we are not in a hurry to move back. I just don't get the governor and AGs obsession with trans individuals.
Not to mention their obsession with women's reproductive rights.
xhttps://news.yahoo.com/texas-republicans-aim-censor-abortion-175000784.html
"The Post reports that Texas Republicans are preparing to introduce a bill for the January 2023 session that “would require internet providers to block abortion pill websites in the same way they can censor child [sexual abuse material].” John Seago, the president of Texas Right to Life, the state’s biggest anti-abortion group, told said the effort would target Aid Access as well as pharmacy sites not run by medical providers.
VPN, anyone?
Who’s a progressive greenie? The club Q shooter? The one whose dad was relieved that his son is only a mass murderer but not a fag? The one who had posted tons of maga screeds online? Is that the guy you’re claiming is a greenie?
No, I was thinking about the other guy you ranted about, the one who visited the Pelosi home in his underwear. I must have become confused at your cadre of favorite Republican/Republican influenced baddies. :|(
And, I didn't claim he was a greenie, his son did, I was just passing it along for your consideration.
No, I was thinking about the other guy you ranted about, the one who visited the Pelosi home in his underwear. I must have become confused at your cadre of favorite Republican/Republican influenced baddies. :|(
And, I didn't claim he was a greenie, his son did, I was just passing it along for your consideration.
So is he a greenie or isn’t he? Why would you post about him being a greenie if even you didn’t believe it?
Do you have a link to share so we can see what led to your post? You republicans are so desperate to claim that every ugly person who attacks a democrat is actually a fellow democrat that I can’t keep up with the silliness. Pro tip-the whole maga screeching that every bad person is really Antifa is just pathetic and silly and only other magas believe it.
You’d probably do better to teach him to hide deep deep in the closet and learn how to present as cis. Otherwise he's: going to live life as a target just like every other LGBTQ person in America. Being comfortable in one’s skin isn’t particularly helpful for remaining safe when the Republican hate speech fueled bullies come into one’s safe spaces and start firing guns indiscriminately.
I don’t think it would be in his character to cower in some closet for fear of homicidal Republicans lurking in the shadows. I’m trying to teach him not to believe in such simplistic, ideological fables.
Between the angertainment industry and the need to sustain the outrage needed to keep the woke worldview alive, we have reached the point where the available supply of bigotry is unable to meet the burgeoning demand. Therefore every sad incident must be strip mined to fuel the narrative. “Hate” must be defined down to anything that doesn’t support a certain agenda. That’s why we lead the world in hate crime hoaxes. He’s smart enough to get that.
And Alan is correct about his environmental and political views, which I have every hope he will leave behind as he matures. But he is able to make the distinction between a viewpoint difference and a deadly threat.
early morning
12-19-22, 11:37am
I don’t think it would be in his character to cower in some closet for fear of homicidal Republicans lurking in the shadows. I’m trying to teach him not to believe in such simplistic, ideological fables. And it is stupid to pretend no such threat exists. My youngest is trans. They do not "cower" but they know where problems are likely to arise. They have never yet been threatened or harmed by a person of a more liberal persuasion. Those who have threatened or attempted harm (we may be "woke liberals" but we're a gun-toting liberal family - not an unusual thing in our neck of the woods) have been hard right-wingers, each and every one. Please don't let your ideology imperil your child's safety. There is a REAL threat to trans people, and to deny that is foolish.
And it is stupid to pretend no such threat exists. My youngest is trans. They do not "cower" but they know where problems are likely to arise. They have never yet been threatened or harmed by a person of a more liberal persuasion. Those who have threatened or attempted harm (we may be "woke liberals" but we're a gun-toting liberal family - not an unusual thing in our neck of the woods) have been hard right-wingers, each and every one. Please don't let your ideology imperil your child's safety. There is a REAL threat to trans people, and to deny that is foolish.
I’m not saying there’s no threat at all, but as risks go it’s not a very significant one compared to many others. I think there are parties with an ideological incentive to exaggerate this particular one. People who insist that bad things happen because we don’t shut bad people up.
Statistically LDAHL is right. The likelihood of any one LGBTQ person getting shot by someone inspired by the current republican hatred of LGBTQ people is low. But by his logic it probably also doesn't make sense to wear a seatbelt. Statistically most people aren't going to be involved in a crash that would kill them if they weren't wearing a seatbelt. Yet most of us put on that seatbelt anyway, and encourage our loved ones to do the same, because we understand that it's something we can do to reduce the already small likelihood of death to an even smaller likelihood. If I could do something to make one of my loved ones a little bit safer, like calling out people who weaponize hatred against LGBTQ people I would do that too.
iris lilies
12-22-22, 3:23pm
I was shocked to hear Chris Beck, former Navy Seal who transitioned to be Kristen Beck a decade ago, has announced he is de transitioning. The book “Warrior Princess” covers his story, as does a good Netflix documentary. Numerous interview by Anderson Cooper and his cohorts kept Kristen in the limelight, earning her money and awards for simply setting foot in banquet rooms as he now tells it.
I really liked him because he sounded so sincere, and he sounds sincere now. So yeah I was shocked to hear this news.
However I’m not shocked at all that Anderson Cooper, MSNBC, CNN, HuffPo, NYT, NPR and etc have not run a story on his de transitioning and his characterization “Trans ideology is cultish” because that certainly doesn’t fit their narrative. He is speaking out against medicalized transitioning of juveniles and he feels bad for his part in that world. He talks about how easy it was for him to get drugs and be declared to have gender dysphoria When deeper probing of his psychological state would have been appropriate.
...
I really liked him because he sounded so sincere, and he sounds sincere now. So yeah I was shocked to hear this news.
However I’m not shocked at all that Anderson Cooper, MSNBC, CNN, HuffPo, NYT, NPR and etc have not run a story on his de transitioning and his characterization “Trans ideology is cultish” because that certainly doesn’t fit their narrative. He is speaking out against medicalized transitioning of juveniles and he feels bad for his part in that world. He talks about how easy it was for him to get drugs and be declared to have gender dysphoria When deeper probing of his psychological state would have been appropriate.
That's pretty much my take on the subject, also. There certainly have been determined transgender individuals like Billy Tipton who didn't want or need anyone else's input into their personal, most intimate decisions, apparently.
ApatheticNoMore
12-22-22, 6:35pm
I'm pretty skeptical the deeper probing of the psychological state leads anywhere. Because people can have pathological reasons for all sorts of seemingly "normal" behavior. They can have pathological reasons for wanting to have kids, or pursuing a certain career, or perusing a certain relationship. And noone is really much in a position to judge their motivations (sure child protective services can judge if you abuse your kids, actions that harm others can definitely be judged, but not so much motives). And people can also come to regret all sorts of "normal" things. And noone is saying every decision people make should undergo psychological probing (presumably by shrinks?) first. Nor do shrinks really have this capacity IMO, I mean a psychologist can test and say you have ADHD, or autism or depression etc., but they can't say therefore you shouldn't do x, y, z. So all we can say is adults are free to make their own decisions. Juveniles is a much harder problem.
I'm also a bit dubious about the overall "science" of psychology.
I'm also a bit dubious about the overall "science" of psychology.
I took a couple of psychology classes in college and came away thinking it was pretty much useless--a completely arbitrary "discipline." Lots of impressive language, little meaningful substance.
catherine
12-22-22, 10:11pm
I actually enjoyed my college psych 101 class. I enjoyed Fromm, Rollo May, Frankl, Carl Jung. I believe there is a science to psychology, the same as there is a science to anthropology and sociology, as long it's in the right hands.
These damn groomer librarians always causing trouble... Kinda sad that all the sleepy-heads are so afraid of people reading books and getting "ideas". I'm sure the folks here that don't think LGBTQ people are a target will simply ignore this and next week ask "what are you talking about?" when we once again point out all the hate that republicans are spewing at LGBTQ folks. Meanwhile the rest of us will understand quite clearly that your votes for these assholes supports the hate.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/12/22/2143302/-Librarian-rips-board-over-anti-LGBTQ-book-bans-says-she-s-been-threatened-called-pedophile?pm_source=story_sidebar&pm_medium=web&pm_campaign=recommended
JaneV2.0
12-23-22, 12:16am
I rather fancied Carl Jung and his rather metaphysical approach. Otherwise, meh.
iris lilies
12-23-22, 12:16am
These damn groomer librarians always causing trouble... Kinda sad that all the sleepy-heads are so afraid of people reading books and getting "ideas". I'm sure the folks here that don't think LGBTQ people are a target will simply ignore this and next week ask "what are you talking about?" when we once again point out all the hate that republicans are spewing at LGBTQ folks. Meanwhile the rest of us will understand quite clearly that your votes for these assholes supports the hate.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2022/12/22/2143302/-Librarian-rips-board-over-anti-LGBTQ-book-bans-says-she-s-been-threatened-called-pedophile?pm_source=story_sidebar&pm_medium=web&pm_campaign=recommended
Oh God, drag queen story hour. It’s so over.
But I am just a hater.
Oh God, drag queen story hour. It’s so over.
But I am just a hater.
Apparently it isn't over to republicans. And in this case it's not even drag queen story hour it's LGBTQ books that are oogy boogy scary to republican shitbags. but yeah, give up since you're a retired old lady who just doesn't give a shit about anyone else any more...
Apparently it isn't over to republicans. And in this case it's not even drag queen story hour it's LGBTQ books that are oogy boogy scary to republican shitbags. but yeah, give up since you're a retired old lady who just doesn't give a shit about anyone else any more...
How graphic are the graphic novels mentioned in your linked story? Does it matter to you?
Also, what is the purpose of drag queen story hour? Is there a goal associated with it?
How graphic are the graphic novels mentioned in your linked story? Does it matter to you?
Also, what is the purpose of drag queen story hour? Is there a goal associated with it?
I found this article really chilling. This is a mother and grandmother who is receiving threats to her physical safety from these townspeople. I think that is enough to warrant her protection. This has nothing to do with "drag queen story hour." Who gives a s%%t about drag queen story hour. That is not what this article is talking about, and this whole minimizing of the violence that is out there now against regular people such as the women election workers in the Jan 6 hearings--why are people minimizing this and refusing to listen to what is going on with this kind of violent right wing rhetoric against our fellow citizens?
I found this article really chilling. This is a mother and grandmother who is receiving threats to her physical safety from these townspeople. I think that is enough to warrant her protection. This has nothing to do with "drag queen story hour." Who gives a s%%t about drag queen story hour. That is not what this article is talking about, and this whole minimizing of the violence that is out there now against regular people such as the women election workers in the Jan 6 hearings--why are people minimizing this and refusing to listen to what is going on with this kind of violent right wing rhetoric against our fellow citizens?
If that is happening, it's undoubtedly a reaction to something, I'm just wondering what that something could be. These stories always seem long on narrative and short on details.
You are right, it would be good to know how this situation started. Jackson Township is where the prison is. We used to drive through it on the way to Toledo and points east. It can be a rough town, but there is a lot there economically; it's kind of a cachement shopping etc area for a lot of rural Michigan. Unless I have the wrong Jackson? Because I don't think of that as western Michigan.
iris lilies
12-23-22, 10:13am
I am VERY concerned when public libraries are strong armed to get rid of reasonable works of any political,and societal stripe, and yes that includes graphic novels. This is just plain wrong.
No one is forced to read anything from a public library, these are not school class assignments we are talking about here. I doubt the material in question in this Patmos Library is extreme, it is just that so many parents don’t know what material is out there now in the mainstream publishing world. It is fine if any one parent says “my kid isn’t going to read that!” that is his right.
But when I drill down into the Patmos situation, it looks to me like this is a tiny independent library that is not part of a system. It is on its own for funding and that is a always a teetering, nearly unsustainable position. A $300,000 budget is… Not much. I don’t understand why all of a sudden the Patmos citizens have been asked to come up with tax support for this library but there’s some thing that doesn’t quite make sense to me in the whole story. Maybe Patmos is required to periodically reaffirm their tax support and that’s what this failed election is about?
Thank you for pointing out this was the Patmos Library, IL. I definitely had the wrong area. Nowhere near Jackson. It's near Holland, where Hope College is.
That makes the story even weirder. This is not a rural outclave, although there are mostly fruit farmers there for industry. It's small town ville. But in a pretty blue part of the state. Not far from Saugatuck, coastal vacation areas.
and yes, if 300000 is the budget for the town, how much of that went for the library? And is that why the library got shut down, not the threatened books.
I was way off on location, sorry, everyone.
It is quite near Hudsonville Creamery, which makes the best ice cream in Michigan:
https://www.hudsonvilleicecream.com/our-story/
iris lilies
12-23-22, 11:29am
Thank you for pointing out this was the Patmos Library, IL. I definitely had the wrong area. Nowhere near Jackson. It's near Holland, where Hope College is.
That makes the story even weirder. This is not a rural outclave, although there are mostly fruit farmers there for industry. It's small town ville. But in a pretty blue part of the state. Not far from Saugatuck, coastal vacation areas.
and yes, if 300000 is the budget for the town, how much of that went for the library? And is that why the library got shut down, not the threatened books.
I was way off on location, sorry, everyone.
It is quite near Hudsonville Creamery, which makes the best ice cream in Michigan:
https://www.hudsonvilleicecream.com/our-story/
No the budget of around $300,000 is for the library.
Holland is Uber conservative, is it not? All of those Dutch people. (I say this because my brother and cousin went to Central College in Pella, Iowa, another Dutch-conservative stronghold.)
No the budget of around $300,000 is for the library.
Holland is Uber conservative, is it not? All of those Dutch people. (I say this because my brother and cousin went to Central College in Pellia, Iowa, another Dutch-conservative stronghold.)
I don't know, my husband went to Hope, and while it's Calvinist, it doesn't seem like it's in the 19th century.
Thanks for the correction on the budget. I wonder what our local library budget is? Stephen King lives in town and he is a massive contributor, so it's a really nice small library.
iris lilies
12-23-22, 12:16pm
I don't know, my husband went to Hope, and while it's Calvinist, it doesn't seem like it's in the 19th century.
Thanks for the correction on the budget. I wonder what our local library budget is? Stephen King lives in town and he is a massive contributor, so it's a really nice small library.
i’m looking into this Patmos library thing and I have to say, it looks like a nice quality library for a little town.
It’s not one of those that seem to be teetering on the edge, put together in someone’s spare crumbling building, and held together with book donations and volunteers. It actually does seem to be a professional operation so this sudden lack of funding is not good, not good at all.
ApatheticNoMore
12-23-22, 1:55pm
It's not unusual for library tax support to need to be reaffirmed, that's the type of thing that tends to pass by 80% or more here though, noone agrees on almost anything as much as that.
iris lilies
12-23-22, 4:09pm
Apparently it isn't over to republicans. And in this case it's not even drag queen story hour it's LGBTQ books that are oogy boogy scary to republican shitbags. but yeah, give up since you're a retired old lady who just doesn't give a shit about anyone else any more...
But the story is drag queen headline in Norwich England as the photo with this story and caption so that’s all I read And you know my position on drag queen story hours, I think they are stupid, lame, and any more they seem deserving of the “groomer” label. This photo and caption is stupid to use with a story about book challenges in small town Michigan. I guess this speaks to the quality of journalism at Daileykos. But anyway –
The “ graphic novel memoir” book under discussion, Gender Queer, may not be any different then another well-known graphic novel memoir called Fun Home: a family tragicomic challenged a lot this year.
I love Fun Home. Some years ago it was turned into a play. It’s about a young girl who is gay who lives in a household she presents as dysfunctional. Her father is a teacher but he also runs the family’s funeral home business. He is gay and in the closet. Every cent of the family’s money goes to decorate their huge Victorian house according to the father‘s rarefied taste. There is not a happy ending.
I guess this was targeted at teens, I don’t really remember, but it was really adult themes. I do remember that when I went to the play I saw a mom hauling in her son who was about 8 to 10 years old and I thought that was inappropriate and I wondered if she really understood that this was not a production for children.
iris lilies
12-23-22, 7:18pm
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dkqP6OPymqM
Watch Blair’s YouTube video from minute 2:15 until 3:15 to get a full view of the latest “Family Friendly” drag queen show, coming to a tax supported school or library near you. If you think that’s an exaggeration then please, for the love of God, tell me why.
But you have to watch the video, just one minute of it, before you comment.
I’ve said before that I might take my teenager to a show like this if the kid was interested in it because I’m kind of raunchy so my 15–16 -17-year-old – would be old enough for that depending on the kid of course. But the small children shown in this video and interviewed from the stage? Umm??? Do these parents have any brains? I mean what the actual FK?!!
Blair says about this debacle “ Taking kids to a drag show to help them learn tolerance about LGBTQ people is like taking them to a strip club to learn respect for women.”
I consider my tolerance pretty high for this drag show sort of thing but yet apparently I’m just a hater. I am a Republican voting hater, not keen on a typical drag show being promoted for children since it seems rather groomerish to me.
iris lilies
12-23-22, 7:25pm
I listened to David Sedaris on Bari Weis’ podcast today and he let loose with a few gems but of course David is an OLDE and might even be a hater.
He said he came out as straight some time ago because he doesn’t like the term “queer” and he’s unhappy with the way his sexual orientation, homosexual, keeps getting relabeled. He just doesn’t like it and he said the “straight”:term never changes so that’s what he is, ha ha.
He had a few things to say about NPR‘s new super woke programming and how tiresome it is. He said he worries more about the parents of trans kids than the kids themselves because they seem so out of touch with reality.
But again, David is OLDE so we can discount what this cleverly wise man who sleeps with men (inside joke, you had to listen to the podcast ) has to say about our society.
I suppose drag queen story hour is silly (who really cares?), but I can't see it as "grooming," unless you mean in the sense of "Careful grooming is important--glue your lashes on carefully, check to see that your wig is on straight, and at all costs, avoid the dreaded five o'clock shadow!"
iris lilies
12-23-22, 8:25pm
I suppose drag queen story hour is silly (who really cares?), but I can't see it as "grooming," unless you mean in the sense of "Careful grooming is important--glue your lashes on carefully, check to see that your wig is on straight, and at all costs, avoid the dreaded five o'clock shadow!"
no, I mean “grooming” as in “welcome to our great/wondfeul/sexy/fun/outrageous lifestyle. Pull up a chair, join in the fun!”
Teacher Terry
12-23-22, 10:35pm
I wouldn’t have taken my kids to a drag queen story hour either.
JaneV2.0
12-23-22, 10:48pm
I know what you meant; I just doubt attending Drag Queen Story Hour is going to lead to an explosion of committed cross-dressers. (who might very well be cis-men if percentages bear out.) I guess time will tell.
rosarugosa
12-24-22, 7:26am
I think events such as Drag Queen Story Hour for children hurts the LGBTQ cause more than helps it.
ETA: I did watch the clip and thought the show was grossly inappropriate for children, and it doesn't look like anything I would enjoy either. I also wondered who Blaire White is and what is wrong with her lips, but I probably don't care enough to look into it further.
iris lilies
12-24-22, 10:02am
I think events such as Drag Queen Story Hour for children hurts the LGBTQ cause more than helps it.
ETA: I did watch the clip and thought the show was grossly inappropriate for children, and it doesn't look like anything I would enjoy either. I also wondered who Blaire White is and what is wrong with her lips, but I probably don't care enough to look into it further.
Thank you! ALL OF THIS works against the LGBTQ community. When are they going to see that?
Blaire is a trans woman who is a well known podcaster with moderate political/social views which, in this day and age, are considered “conservative.” She works hard to look like that and the lip fillers are part of it.
iris lilies
12-24-22, 1:41pm
https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/politics/drag-queen-christmas-show-will-restrict-entry-to-minors-after-religious-protesters-raise-objections/63-063ce7a7-b3f3-4cea-b598-0f66bb55a673
In my own back yard this crap is going on.
Miss Dieta Pepsi, long term drag performer in St. Louis says she and her colleagues “know where to draw the line to create a family friendly environment when children are in attendance. “
Complete bullshit, as demonstrated by the Ru Paul Christmas show in Austin, TX.
”They are lying.
We know they are lying.
They know we know they are lying.
We know they know we know they are lying.
Yet they continue to lie.”
—Elena Gorokhova
Why am I so wound up by this? Because I feel betrayed and lied to. I used to go to drag shows and probably even saw Dieta Pepsi, don’t remember, and I had fun at the suggestive, silly, antics of the
queens. I still watch Ru Paul clips on YouTube because who dowsnt love RuPaul?
But this stuff is beyond the pale.
And it pisses me off that The Law is threatened to get involved when that is completely unnecessary. Keep the law out of adult entertainment, keep children out of adult entertainment. It isn't that hard.
rosarugosa
12-25-22, 7:44am
Yes, it is the overt sexuality that makes it inappropriate for kids. Gay or straight is beside the point.
How graphic are the graphic novels mentioned in your linked story? Does it matter to you?
Also, what is the purpose of drag queen story hour? Is there a goal associated with it?
It’s a public library. I personally think they should be keeping books that their patrons are interested in reading. If graphic novels are what they want then sure, what is wrong with that?
It’s a public library. I personally think they should be keeping books that their patrons are interested in reading. If graphic novels are what they want then sure, what is wrong with that?
I'm sure graphic novels with graphic depictions of sex are very popular with teenagers, the question is if they are appropriate for that audience. I suspect that if someone objects to graphic depictions in publications aimed at youngsters, it doesn't matter if its target audience is straight or gay, but you'd never know that from the story which prompted your objection. It was designed to enrage you without providing the necessary details.
I'm sure graphic novels with graphic depictions of sex are very popular with teenagers, the question is if they are appropriate for that audience. I suspect that if someone objects to graphic depictions in publications aimed at youngsters, it doesn't matter if its target audience is straight or gay, but you'd never know that from the story which prompted your objection. It was designed to enrage you without providing the necessary details.
If you want to restrict what your teen reads then restrict what your teen reads. Why should all library patrons be subjected to only the books you deem appropriate for your teen?
iris lilies
12-27-22, 12:31pm
If you want to restrict what your teen reads then restrict what your teen reads. Why should all library patrons be subjected to only the books you deem appropriate for your teen?
Yes, this.
Let kids get their edgy material in a book, it is so benign when compared to film.
It tends to be the Definately-for-teens-and-above stuff that causes the most problems when that material strays to elementary level audiences.
littlebittybobby
1-3-23, 12:16pm
Okay----I'll tell you what-----The Law in Zurra is cracking down on these Alphabet People! Tonight, they're gonna EXECUTE an openly trangengendered Alphabet Lady at one of the many state pen-o-tentiaries here, just to set an example and Send a Message! Yup. So, yeah---contact your Congerssperson, Contact Biden, or somebody, to stop this witchhunt. Yup.5057
It never ceases to amaze me how unevenly the death penalty is applied. I wonder how many knife-wielding murderers get relatively short sentences, or at least avoid the death penalty.
I used to favor the death penalty, but ultimately came to oppose it as I decided there was no way to correct mistakes.
littlebittybobby
1-3-23, 2:44pm
Okay----You kids make a coupla good points. But see---a message MUST be sent to scofflaws---and that includes Alphabet People---This could be YOU, so don't push your luck! Yup. Last month, they had to EXECUTE a POC, even though it'd served 20 or 30 years on death row, and claimed they were completely reformed! Yup. But that ploy didn't work. No exceptions, no excuses in Zurra. You want Reparations? Here's your reparations---for alla the damage You People've done in St Lo, the last few years! Yup. Back 100 years ago, they usta just get the Rope. Now they give 'em a Fair Trial. Fair to the Lawyers, that is. They all make good money, doing that stuff. But yeah----watch your step in Zurra. Hope that helps you some. Thankk Mee.
littlebittybobby
1-3-23, 3:00pm
Ummmm..... Okay-----Also, watch your step in The Peoples Republic of Washington, too. Back a few years ago, they hanged a couple of Sex Maniacs for their dastardly deeds. Yup. Think it was early-mid 1990's. But yeah---Hanged by the neck until dead, in Walla Walla. Yup. Hope that helps you some. Thankk Mee.5058
I used to favor the death penalty, but ultimately came to oppose it as I decided there was no way to correct mistakes.
I wouldn't lose any sleep over clearly guilty multiple murderers or torture killers being put to death, but most of them are not (the Green River Killer, Dennis Rader (BTK), and others too numerous to mention.
Not only can't mistakes be corrected, but the laws are shockingly capricious--black getaway drivers like Brandon Bernard, and others whose participation in murders is merely peripheral are routinely convicted of capital crimes and executed. So I'm a staunch opponent of the death penalty.
If you want to restrict what your teen reads then restrict what your teen reads. Why should all library patrons be subjected to only the books you deem appropriate for your teen?
Here's a few edited panels from the graphic novel Gender Queer. I'm guessing lots of parents don't care to support the use of public funds to teach kids in the 12 to 18 age range how to give blowjobs.
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Screen-Shot-2023-01-09-at-7.13.05-PM-1024x929.png
Teacher Terry
1-10-23, 11:44am
I could think of many better ways for the government to spend our money.
iris lilies
1-10-23, 12:15pm
There are plenty of books in the public library system that I don’t care to support specifically, but I recognize that in the city the size of St. Louis with 320,000 inhabitants, there will be different point of view from, and different needs than, my own.
I’m fine with this book being in a public library system.
I’ll go one step further —my kid who is 12 years old and up can read it, I wouldn’t care.
I have to admit that I have a visceral response similar to Alan's, but I was brought up in a purity bubble where the only take-away I got from the sex talk I had with my mom at age 10 was to "always be modest" which to me meant I always had to wear long sleeves because otherwise somehow the sperm (which boys were sprinkled with like dandruff) would infiltrate my epidermis and get me pregnant.
I think that what makes me squeamish about Alan's example is the fact that it's in comic book format. I think I would be horrified to think my young teen kids would read it, but again, that's a visceral response based on my background, and my parental instinct that some things should not be readily available for consumption (to my kids at least).
Whether this material should be part of a public library system is a different question. The stuff is out there anyway. I don't see the point of censorship in this culture.
frugal-one
1-10-23, 2:18pm
Here's a few edited panels from the graphic novel Gender Queer. I'm guessing lots of parents don't care to support the use of public funds to teach kids in the 12 to 18 age range how to give blowjobs.
https://www.theamericanconservative.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Screen-Shot-2023-01-09-at-7.13.05-PM-1024x929.png
Was this book marked as for teens or just in the library for anyone to read? If it was labeled for the teen section specifically I would object….
iris lilies
1-10-23, 2:34pm
Was this book marked as for teens or just in the library for anyone to read? If it was labeled for the teen section specifically I would object….
In the two libraries I checked, it is in the Adult graphic novel collection.
iris lilies
1-10-23, 2:54pm
I just read up on this book and this cartoon panel doesnt even depict a “ real” blowjob (cough cough strap on.) I don’t know if that is worse or better.
In our county library system it's in the adult section filed under "special photography" within the dewey decimal system. In the san francisco system it's in the adult biography section.
iris lilies
1-24-23, 10:57pm
Another mid Missouri incidence of drag queen shows and children. This time a middle school class was taken to a show about diversity that included a drag show. Probably the show was sanitized, who knows, but at this point if there are educators working who do not understand this is a hot button topic not worth the fallout, then perhaps those educators need to go.
How does one decide where the line is for whether the fallout is worth it? Republicans have made it quite clear that they aren't going to stop with half measures. They have no intention of stopping until we get back to how society was in 1860. If we don't push back on this do we also not push back against the idiocy of "critical race theory" freakouts? Or any of their other sad culture war issues that they use to rile up their white victimhood voter base?
I see Mean Boy Ron DeSantis has canceled a high school AP course in black history because it notes the presence of gay African-Americans in the movement. Talk about "cancel culture!"
iris lilies
1-25-23, 1:01pm
How does one decide where the line is for whether the fallout is worth it? Republicans have made it quite clear that they aren't going to stop with half measures. They have no intention of stopping until we get back to how society was in 1860. If we don't push back on this do we also not push back against the idiocy of "critical race theory" freakouts? Or any of their other sad culture war issues that they use to rile up their white victimhood voter base?
Well jp, for the Drag Queen show issue, how educators should make the decision is “Drag Queens = Not for our students.” Pretty simple.
now, when the Missouri legislature comes for me for taking my 15 year old to a drag show, then I will come and sit with you on your side of the bench. That is a different issue.
Sensible educators will not waste their time promoting or defending Drag Shows for school children.
I think back to just a few months ago when I was naive. I heard that a Drag Show with bumping and grinding took place in a school in Ankeny, Iowa. Ankeny is a place I know well. So I delved into the details and found, as most headline news, the real story was somewhat different. Yes that show took place on school ground BUT administrators didn’t know or approve of it. The kids had planned and executed it. And that is something I understand because kids are gonna be kids and make not great decisions.I suspect a faculty advisor either knew or should have known, but I will give them a pass on this one.
People are forever comparing unfavorable output/cost ratios of American (Yeah, I said it, American) medicine to other countries. But we don’t do the same with the poor performance of our education system. You have places like SF expending energy on renaming empty schools or Seattle’s everybody gets a pass approach during Covid for “equity” purposes. Mandarins decree new ideological slants to history and become indignant when “domestic terrorists” have a problem with it. Meanwhile our society seems measurably dumber by the year.
I think it takes two for a culture war.
If I had another life to live, I'd start a school. It would be heavily focused on the fundamentals, but would be highly experiential to allow for different styles of learning, and I would include a lot of time on practical, nature-based skills. I'm hoping that reincarnation is a real thing.
If I had another life to live, I'd start a school. It would be heavily focused on the fundamentals, but would be highly experiential to allow for different styles of learning, and I would include a lot of time on practical, nature-based skills. I'm hoping that reincarnation is a real thing.
I'm with you re reincarnation; I'm hoping I'll be able to avoid past mistakes in a potential new life. :~)
I guess my fear is that the knowledge never transfers, and you just start all over again.
I guess my fear is that the knowledge never transfers, and you just start all over again.
Yeah; there's that...
Well jp, for the Drag Queen show issue, how educators should make the decision is “Drag Queens = Not for our students.” Pretty simple.
How about teaching about the history of racism? Or the history of black people in America? Also not for our students? That seems to be the mindset of a chunk of our population including assorted state legislatures and governors/potential presidential candidates.
iris lilies
1-25-23, 11:07pm
How about teaching about the history of racism? Or the history of black people in America? Also not for our students? That seems to be the mindset of a chunk of our population including assorted state legislatures and governors/potential presidential candidates.
You are speaking in vagaries here so I can’t respond. You like to paint with broad brushes, overgeneralize, etc.
I think the drag queen show issue should be put to bed and educators need to stop promoting it.
Teacher Terry
1-26-23, 12:06am
I agree with IL that drag queens are not appropriate for schools. Period end of discussion. Parents can do what they want but some things should be off limits for schools.
How about teaching about the history of racism? Or the history of black people in America? Also not for our students? That seems to be the mindset of a chunk of our population including assorted state legislatures and governors/potential presidential candidates.
If only schools could find a way to do that without subjecting the children to the taint of their Democrat ancestors I'd be all for it. Unfortunately, it appears the focus is different, something to do with current minorities being the victim of their Caucasian classmates and the guilt those classmates must accept.
They should find a better way.
If only schools could find a way to do that without subjecting the children to the taint of their Democrat ancestors I'd be all for it. Unfortunately, it appears the focus is different, something to do with current minorities being the victim of their Caucasian classmates and the guilt those classmates must accept.
They should find a better way.
Taint of their democratic ancestors? WTF does that even mean? Next you'll be telling me that the dixiecrats didn't switch parties en masse back in the 60s and 70s. LOL.
It's weird that republicans seem to think that white people being exposed to reality somehow should make them feel ashamed. Personally, even though I'm a white person I don't feel ashamed about the past. I just use my knowledge of the past to try to do better than the white people in the past did.
And I don't try to deflect discussions about American racism by offering vague excuses about lack of understanding like other old white folks do.
early morning
1-26-23, 11:23am
Personally, even though I'm a white person I don't feel ashamed about the past. I just use my knowledge of the past to try to do better than the white people in the past did. Agreed, jp1. I can be outraged by past injustices (to groups, individuals, the planet) and I can hate what my forefathers did, but I'm not such a snowflake that talking about it makes me feel all sorts of guilt. And I can be outraged about the forces that drove my forefathers out of their ancestral homes without expecting the ancestors of our "victimhood" to feel guilt. That said, some of them profited greatly from the acts that drove others out, and I don't think its a bad idea that some of those profits go to bettering conditions for people in general or for the groups that were wronged. I do think acknowledgement of past wrongs makes it easier to move forward, as opposed to pretending it never happened.
iris lilies
1-26-23, 11:35am
Agreed, jp1. I can be outraged by past injustices (to groups, individuals, the planet) and I can hate what my forefathers did, but I'm not such a snowflake that talking about it makes me feel all sorts of guilt. And I can be outraged about the forces that drove my forefathers out of their ancestral homes without expecting the ancestors of our "victimhood" to feel guilt. That said, some of them profited greatly from the acts that drove others out, and I don't think its a bad idea that some of those profits go to bettering conditions for people in general or for the groups that were wronged. I do think acknowledgement of past wrongs makes it easier to move forward, as opposed to pretending it never happened.
Of course. Reasonable people understand that learning about past injustices is stretching, not weakening, our own understanding of the world and making good our society.
However, some of the school exercises in these “learning” efforts are far from benign.
Living in an epicenter of racial politics as as I did, I attended many race awareness sessions through work and neighborhood unity efforts and etc. Those were 20+ years ago and the content of the sessions have changed, and not for the good.
ApatheticNoMore
1-26-23, 3:30pm
The issue was AP classes in African American history I believe. Of course that's legitimate, there is pretty much no reason but racism to think that's not a perfectly legitimate class and a legitimate AP class (not all schools are going to offer it because not all schools offer all AP classes). Dude wants to run for President on black history is not real history. Oh well, I welcome President Newsom then, I was not sure his very slick laid back Californian demeanor plays nationwide, but it has to play better than running on: "black people aren't real people". Talk about stuff that doesn't play nationwide (I hope. It doesn't play nationwide right?).
The issue was AP classes in African American history I believe. Of course that's legitimate, there is pretty much no reason but racism to think that's not a perfectly legitimate class and a legitimate AP class (not all schools are going to offer it because not all schools offer all AP classes). Dude wants to run for President on black history is not real history. Oh well, I welcome President Newsom then, I was not sure his very slick laid back Californian demeanor plays nationwide, but it has to play better than running on: "black people aren't real people". Talk about stuff that doesn't play nationwide (I hope. It doesn't play nationwide right?).
I think a Florida statute states "classroom instruction and curriculum may not be used to indoctrinate or persuade students to a particular point of view", and elements of the proposed class seemed to violate that standard. Perhaps if the activism portions are removed the proposed AP class will be approved and people will have to mis-represent something else to justify their fear of DeSantis.
ApatheticNoMore
1-26-23, 4:52pm
The particular point of view is probably slavery and segregation is bad. I don't fear DeSantis (I'm not black, anti-black sentiment isn't directed against me), I hate him. And yes of course he's running on overt racism.
The particular point of view is probably slavery and segregation is bad.
You could probably look that up, but the result may not satisfy the persistent itch.
frugal-one
1-26-23, 5:30pm
You could probably look that up, but the result may not satisfy the persistent itch.
Explain.
Explain.
If you choose to believe something not necessarily true, yet use that falsehood as a basis for your preferred belief, you'll probably not be motivated to research it for fear of losing your basis of indignation, and the itch will remain.
If you choose to believe something not necessarily true, yet use that falsehood as a basis for your preferred belief, you'll probably not be motivated to research it for fear of losing your basis of indignation.
My first thought with your "persistent itch" theory is that if you are one to seek justice you will have that persistent itch until justice is served. I'll buy that. But I don't think anyone needs to do a lot of research to understand that slavery and segregation is bad. I don't see that point of view as indoctrination.
My first thought with your "persistent itch" theory is that if you are one to seek justice you will have that persistent itch until justice is served. I'll buy that. But I don't think anyone needs to do a lot of research to understand that slavery and segregation is bad. I don't see that point of view as indoctrination.
Neither do I. But anyone who suggests that as being the issue with the AP class in question should really look outside their biases, even if it's painful.
Neither do I. But anyone who suggests that as being the issue with the AP class in question should really look outside their biases, even if it's painful.
I will do some research on that. But I do not have a problem with any relevant topic that sheds light on the Black experience in the context of African American studies.
Forbes (https://www.forbes.com/sites/alisondurkee/2023/01/24/florida-rejects-ap-african-american-studies-course-heres-what-it-actually-teaches/?sh=6f063f7ec451) says that these firebrand words, "Intersectionality" and "Black queer theory" are topics that would be part of a subtopic in the curricula. I still don't know what that means exactly, but I do think that they are convenient words to politicize.
Intersectionality is far too dangerous a concept to teach to the citizenry.
I'm getting that the designers of said curriculum see intersectionality between the black and queer communities and that's distasteful to
DeSantis and his ilk.
I'm getting that the designers of said curriculum see intersectionality between the black and queer communities and that's distasteful to
DeSantis and his ilk.
He has to reject intersectionality because otherwise, people would see how his own identity as strong white male politician has been impacted by his own identity markers of "fascist" and "nutball."
Why is there only one national organization that designs these courses? I don’t think it matters that much for biology or physics, but if they start offering them for ideologically fraught “studies” subjects we will see more and more controversy. We don’t have a national curriculum for anything else, which is probably a good thing.
iris lilies
1-30-23, 11:34am
I have only three general thoughts about this De.Santa’s move since I have not delved into details:
* am glad The Feds have (so far) stayed out of trying to regulate this issue as well
* it is entirely within the purview of a state to set educational standards for schools within that state
* it is possible if not probable that DeSantis is getting into trouble trying to regulate something that can’t even be defined clearly
Interesting Ezra Klein interview (transcript):
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/07/podcasts/transcript-ezra-klein-interviews-gillian-branstetter.html
Why is there only one national organization that designs these courses? I don’t think it matters that much for biology or physics, but if they start offering them for ideologically fraught “studies” subjects we will see more and more controversy. We don’t have a national curriculum for anything else, which is probably a good thing.
Because the cost of entry is remarkably high. And currently everyone except Ron desantis thinks the company currently providing the service is doing just fine so they aren’t shopping around for a new provider, making it even more difficult for a new provider to be successful.
If these ‘fraught studies’ being taught as AP classes are really so fraught then colleges won’t offer credit for them and then no one will take the classes. Or perhaps if they are so fraught but credit IS offered then maybe college professors will use them as a jumping off point for discussion of contrast with different perspectives. Which is kind of one of the main educational goals of college even though Ivy League educated Ron Desantis would never admit it.
Because the cost of entry is remarkably high.
Why is that? Granted, the College Board corporation doesn’t have to pay the taxes potential competitors might, but why should it be so costly to create a course?
Interesting Ezra Klein interview (transcript):
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/07/podcasts/transcript-ezra-klein-interviews-gillian-branstetter.html
I agree that CPAC has degenerated into TrumpPAC over the past several years. They have people calling DeSantis a “Reaganite” as if that was a bad thing, and booing Nikki Haley for daring to show up.
frugal-one
3-9-23, 12:49pm
I agree that CPAC has degenerated into TrumpPAC over the past several years. They have people calling DeSantis a “Reaganite” as if that was a bad thing, and booing Nikki Haley for daring to show up.
What a joke!
Why is that? Granted, the College Board corporation doesn’t have to pay the taxes potential competitors might, but why should it be so costly to create a course?
There are currently 38 AP courses. You'd have to hire a whole lot of subject experts to put a program comparably broad together, and then hire a ton of marketing people to get universities and colleges to agree to offer credit for successfully passing the tests, then you'd have to have those marketing people go to all the school districts that currently offer AP classes to get administrators and school boards to sign off on teaching those classes. After all those years of expenses would you need to put together the administrative capacity to administer the tests and finally have any hope of generating income. And the whole task would be made more challenging because, as I mentioned before, only Ron Desantis seems to think that there's a problem with the current vendor used for AP classes, so a whole lot of universities and school boards would probably not be interested in even meeting with representatives of this new company.
Found the groomer! (Hint, it's not an LGBTQ person...)
https://www.justice.gov/usao-mn/pr/federal-jury-finds-anton-tony-lazzaro-guilty-all-counts-child-sex-trafficking-conspiracy
iris lilies
4-6-23, 10:20pm
I see the Canadians finally decided what to do with the trans groomer with gigantic fake breasts. Apparently her fetish involves displaying herself to children.
I’m disappointed. For a while there it was speculated that she was staging a protest about ridiculous acquiescence to demands of the trans community. But apparently not, she’s the real thing, a trans person asking for ridiculous accommodation In her workplace.
https://nypost.com/2023/03/02/kayla-lemieux-canadian-teacher-with-size-z-prosthetic-breasts-on-paid-leave/
I see the Canadians finally decided what to do with the trans groomer with gigantic fake breasts. Apparently her fetish involves displaying herself to children.
I’m disappointed. For a while there it was speculated that she was staging a protest about ridiculous acquiescence to demands of the trans community. But apparently not, she’s the real thing, a trans person asking for ridiculous accommodation In her workplace.
https://nypost.com/2023/03/02/kayla-lemieux-canadian-teacher-with-size-z-prosthetic-breasts-on-paid-leave/
I'm curious what a real news website has to say about this story. The NYPost is perhaps one of the few websites that has even less credibility than fox "news". I'm not going to bother looking up stories about this and will leave it to you to confirm that this is actually a real story vs. you confirming your hatred of trans people by using a sad sack rupert murdoch fake news channel comparable to fox.
A reasonable estimate at the number of trans-identifying people in the USA is ~1.6 million (1).
I'm not particularly interested in arguments that seem based on picking out the actions of a single member (or small numbers of members) of this large population, and slyly implying the entire population is similar. Or in arguments that don't examine also the rate of that behaviour within the general population of the USA.
Within 1.6 million people, I'm pretty sure you could find almost any human behaviour.
(1) https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/trans-adults-united-states/
iris lilies
4-7-23, 4:12am
I'm curious what a real news website has to say about this story. The NYPost is perhaps one of the few websites that has even less credibility than fox "news". I'm not going to bother looking up stories about this and will leave it to you to confirm that this is actually a real story vs. you confirming your hatred of trans people by using a sad sack rupert murdoch fake news channel comparable to fox.
I would like to know if this is the real story too. Why don’t you find out? I guess if you don’t like the story, you can always malign the source and you do.
A reasonable estimate at the number of people in the USA is ~1.6 million (1).
I'm not particularly interested in arguments that seem based on picking out the actions of a single member (or small numbers of members) of this large population, and slyly implying the entire population is similar. Or in arguments that don't examine also the rate of that behaviour within the general population of the USA.
Within 1.6 million people, I'm pretty sure you could find almost any human behaviour.
(1) https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/trans-adults-united-states/
There are a lot more than 1 million people in the US. Fake math.
iris lilies
4-7-23, 10:26am
A reasonable estimate at the number of people in the USA is ~1.6 million (1).
I'm not particularly interested in arguments that seem based on picking out the actions of a single member (or small numbers of members) of this large population, and slyly implying the entire population is similar. Or in arguments that don't examine also the rate of that behaviour within the general population of the USA.
Within 1.6 million people, I'm pretty sure you could find almost any human behaviour.
(1) https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/trans-adults-united-states/
Any sly implication is your interpretation.
I will help you out here, bae, because I like you. My argument fallacy is “whataboutism.” Lord knows I’ve been told that enough times. You are welcome!
Now I think I will skip along over to other threads add more whataboutisms. They are so easy.
There are a lot more than 1 million people in the US. Fake math.
Gosh, I made a typo on my phone and lost the word “trans” in my post, in the sentence "A reasonable estimate at the number of people in the USA is ~1.6 million (1).", though of course the study in my footnote directly referred to them in title and content, and the context was clear.
Good catch…
Any sly implication is your interpretation.
Dog whistles are pretty easy to hear these days.
iris lilies
4-7-23, 3:56pm
Dog whistles are pretty easy to hear these days.
My guess is the person with fake gigantic breasts brought them to work in a school because she/they knew the social environment was ripe for it. It DID take some months for the school board to take action against the insanity
I do not like slippery slope arguements in general, but I have to say, they do have some merit sometimes in some situations.
iris lilies
4-10-23, 10:55pm
https://www.bbc.com/sport/athletics/65051900
A step in the right direction. The organization “ World Athletics” will not allow trans women who have gone through male puberty to compete against cis women. I do not know how influential this “world athletics” organization is so I don’t know if they will influence others in the same decision.
The UK is facing some of these issues head on, having had a bit more time with them.
I’m wondering what’s going happen to all those scholarships that are given to women only. Must be interesting that is no longer a female only space.
And now people like iris are fighting to deny a permit for an LGBTQ festival in Tennessee. The Republican asshat’s war on LGBTQ people is working. F%#k them and the ugly horses they rode in on.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/franklin-tennessee-lgbtq-pride-festival-meets-fierce-resistance-rcna78654
iris lilies
4-11-23, 9:29am
And now people like iris are fighting to deny a permit for an LGBTQ festival in Tennessee. The Republican asshat’s war on LGBTQ people is working. F%#k them and the ugly horses they rode in on.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/franklin-tennessee-lgbtq-pride-festival-meets-fierce-resistance-rcna78654
That is interesting.
i do not like the Tennessee legislation against Drag in the public square because I think that kind of legislation is too broad, and drilling down to prohibit sexually provocative entertainment billed as “family friendly” is a moving target that can be used inappropriately. You can’t legislate common sense, and parents who are hellbent on showing the world their ally-wokeness by taking their kids to a sex show are just gonna be stupid.
I thought of you jp when I listened to an NPR Fresh Aire interview by Terry Gross of a drag show leader in Memphis. He was a nice young man, well spoken, a theater major (of course) and a now trans person. He spoke against issues in the new Tennessee law with some goid points but also putting forth the usual lies.
What were the lies that made me think of you? He said (paraphrasing) “ We were doing our own thing, staying in our own lane, when this law came down…” Lie #1 No, the raunchy sexually suggestive shows deliberately staged for children are something new.
Later he huffily said (paraphrasing) “ Of course we know how to be appropriate with a child audience.” Lie #2. Ugh guy, really? I have seen the footage of multiple drag shows with sexually provocative content billed as “family friendly” have you?
Then he mentioned his drag brunch show. Ha, okay, Daytime sleeze.
Legislation is not the answer. I want to promote common sense through social censure. Call out the lying for what it is.
And I will work to promote human decency through social censure. Calling out the assholes for who they are.
Apparently another good reason to be retired from a Missouri library, the Missouri state house voted to stop state funding of libraries. Gotta keep the people stupid so they keep voting for the Republic party…
Apparently another good reason to be retired from a Missouri library, the Missouri state house voted to stop state funding of libraries. Gotta keep the people stupid so they keep voting for the Republic party…
Probably that makes it easier to make sure the "bad" books don't get into the "wrong" hands.
iris lilies
4-11-23, 9:37pm
Apparently another good reason to be retired from a Missouri library, the Missouri state house voted to stop state funding of libraries. Gotta keep the people stupid so they keep voting for the Republic party…
It’s silly, but it’s also just politics. The money will be restored in the budget by the Senate.
Public and school libraries are locally funded anyway. Money coming from the state is often in the form of torturously detailed specific grants and ya gotta jump through hoops to get it.
It’s silly, but it’s also just politics. The money will be restored in the budget by the Senate.
Public and school libraries are locally funded anyway. Money coming from the state is often in the form of torturously detailed specific grants and ya gotta jump through hoops to get it.
So it’s just lore performative BS from the party that doesn’t actually want to govern? SHOCKER!!!
iris lilies
4-12-23, 10:24am
And I will work to promote human decency through social censure. Calling out the assholes for who they are.
you know, jp, it seems to me that a very high percentage of your politically driven posts on this forum are simply attacking people. Do you ever debate actual ideas? This makes it look as though, ummm, you are incapable of that.
Just a friendly heads up here. ;)
Teacher Terry
4-12-23, 11:13am
IL, I agree that men that have gone through puberty should not compete in women’s sports. If it’s allowed then women’s sports will be ruined. I am sick of people that say studies show that suppressing testosterone is enough when men benefit from the muscle build up prior to drug treatment. There’s also people that genetically don’t have the typical chromosomes of male or female and since these are biological syndromes rules can be made that cover these things.
If you choose to be trans then you are opting out of participating in women’s sports, scholarships for women only, etc. I know homosexuality is not a choice and really don’t know if being trans is or not. In trying to be inclusive our country is going to the extreme and it’s bizarre. I actually never thought these types of things would be such big issues.
iris lilies
4-12-23, 11:43am
Agreed, the testosterone fueled puberty of natal men builds physiques of superior bone and muscle marriages, big lung capacity, large frames and hands/feet, etc.
It was hysterically funny in a WTF? way when Lia Thomas tied with Riley Gaines in one of their swim events, and the officials had only one trophy to hand out during a photo op. Guess which swimmer got that trophy? Lia! ‘Cause we are woke and need to show it. They sent Riley‘s trophy later to her in the mail, second rate female that she is.
see, it isn’t so much the ridiculous expectations of trans folks that bugs me as the insane eagerness of the “allies” to accommodate this bullshit.
The shop teacher in Canada who walks around with giant faux breasts would ONLY have been doing that in the privacy of her own home a few years ago. We do not need to accommodate that level of insanity in school. Our friend bae thinks I’m dissing the giant breasted person in my post above, but no, I’m really complaining about all the school officials who were unable to put that insanity to rest due to societal expectations.
littlebittybobby
4-12-23, 3:29pm
Okay---We've almost solved that particular social issue by discussing it here for weeks. So anyway---Let's move on; Move Forward to a discussion of Reparations for Alphabet People, to maybe not atone for past injustices, but at least compensate them monetarily. Money is nice, don't you agree? But yeah---anyone who perceives they've been wronged in any fashion because they're a member of the Alphabet People Community, should be entitled to Cash Compensation, and an apolology from any politician who wants to get elected. Plus--receive preferential treatment, from now on. Hope that helps you some. Thankk mee. You may proceed to agree with meee.
Our friend bae thinks I’m dissing the giant breasted person in my post above,...
No. I expressed concern over your sampling techniques and the reasonableness of any conclusions drawn from your dataset. And I'm a Bayesian.
iris lilies
4-12-23, 4:13pm
No. I expressed concern over your sampling techniques and the reasonableness of any conclusions drawn from your dataset. And I'm a Bayesian.
That one situation of giant boobed trans woman is an outrageous, outlier situation. Yet it went on for weeks. It was good for clickbait, but there is something real there in the inability of the school administration to deal quickly and effectively with it, real and worthy of discussion.
there was something real in swimming officials’ choice to give Lia Thomas the trophy. Why not flip a coin for it? That situation is real and worthy of discussion.
And the ‘small government’ republicans in Missouri strike again. To paraphrase failed PA senate candidate Dr Snake Oil Salesman, ‘your adult transgender care health decisions should be between you, your doctor, and your state government’.
These clowns never fail to impress. Sorry Iris, I’ll stop dunking on your state’s pathetic Republican politicians when they stop acting like dickwads.
https://www.axios.com/2023/04/13/missouri-ag-gender-affirming-care?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=news_tab&mibextid=Zxz2cZ
Missouri. Hmmm....
Didn't Missouri State Senator Moon, a supporter of the transgender bills, also support marriage of 12-year-olds, with parental permission?
iris lilies
4-13-23, 11:14pm
And the ‘small government’ republicans in Missouri strike again. To paraphrase failed PA senate candidate Dr Snake Oil Salesman, ‘your adult transgender care health decisions should be between you, your doctor, and your state government’.
These clowns never fail to impress. Sorry Iris, I’ll stop dunking on your state’s pathetic Republican politicians when they stop acting like dickwads.
https://www.axios.com/2023/04/13/missouri-ag-gender-affirming-care?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=news_tab&mibextid=Zxz2cZ
Adults should get to do whatever they want do with their bodies even if they want to completely **** it up which is what a lot of this medical treatment stuff is. And I don’t think that at the magic age of 18 suddenly people get smart and understand all of the consequences of medicalized affirming care, but there has to be an age cut off so 18 it is.
Yes. 18 is a random age but we trust 18 year olds with guns and with the ability to sign contracts. And we also hold them accountable for college loans. So yeah, if we’re going to do all that then anyone 18 or over should be able to do whatever they want with their body. If only the Missouri legislature would get the memo.
iris lilies
4-14-23, 4:59pm
And the ‘small government’ republicans in Missouri strike again. To paraphrase failed PA senate candidate Dr Snake Oil Salesman, ‘your adult transgender care health decisions should be between you, your doctor, and your state government’.
These clowns never fail to impress. Sorry Iris, I’ll stop dunking on your state’s pathetic Republican politicians when they stop acting like dickwads.
https://www.axios.com/2023/04/13/missouri-ag-gender-affirming-care?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=news_tab&mibextid=Zxz2cZ
and yet, you’ve been completely silent on Lia Thomas and her cohorts invading women’s sports. Why don’t you talk about an issue rather than or in addition to flinging mud at people, even if they are deserving of the mud? At this point, I think that you can’t really debate issues, you just are not capable of it.
iris lilies
4-14-23, 5:07pm
https://www.thefp.com/p/top-trans-doctors-blow-the-whistle
Here Dr. Marci Bowers who makes her living creating women from men and vice versa, the creator of 2000 vaginas, cautions that medical treatment of minors often goes too far too fast. She wanted to write an editorial about that, but the New York Times didn’t like it back in 2021.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/01/opinion/trans-healthcare-law.html
But this recent opinion piece by Marci Bowersis more in line with New York Times thinking so they accepted this particular work. As the recent head of WPATH, the organization that sets treatment standards for trans people, she’s responding to all of the state actions out there blocking medicalized treatment.
I don’t find her two articles to be necessarily in conflict.
As far as state legislatures making medical policy, that is bad, a bad idea. I can’t imagine laws that are nuanced enough to fit every human condition that doctors and health professionals must address. I do think there’s a place for government in this arena, and I think the feds could fund some really good studies. There is no one study that everyone agrees tells us complete and accurate facts about gender transition. That is a grave concern. It is also a concern of researchers that studies that might be perceived to be transphobic will not be funded, and actually should not even be spoken of because the proposer will be banned.
"That is a grave concern. It is also a concern of researchers that studies that might be perceived to be transphobic will not be funded, and actually should not even be spoken of because the proposer will be banned."
Reading The Truth in Small Doses makes me despair for all the medical studies and medical breakthroughs that will never see the light of day due to the brutal politics of medical journals.
There was an article in the Economist last week about this. European researchers and doctors have been cautioning restraint for some years but the US just went full bore ahead.
iris lilies
4-15-23, 10:45am
There was an article in the Economist last week about this. European researchers and doctors have been cautioning restraint for some years but the US just went full bore ahead.
Perhaps the U.S. enjoys bigger monies to be raked in on the bodies of these kids and young people.
The UK closed its transgender specialty clinic this month in light of specious research, lack of facts, and treatments motivated by a political agenda.
I see that desantis has doubled down on his ‘hate the gays’ platform with the state school expanding the ‘pretend LGBTQ people don’t exist’ law to cover schools all the way through 12th grade. It seems weird to me that he is throwing away his chance at the presidency in such dramatic fashion. Between this and his new abortion law he will have an impossible time winning any of the moderate voters that republicans have aggressively been turning away the past few elections.
iris lilies
4-21-23, 8:59am
I see that desantis has doubled down on his ‘hate the gays’ platform with the state school expanding the ‘pretend LGBTQ people don’t exist’ law to cover schools all the way through 12th grade. It seems weird to me that he is throwing away his chance at the presidency in such dramatic fashion. Between this and his new abortion law he will have an impossible time winning any of the moderate voters that republicans have aggressively been turning away the past few elections.
DeSantis’ pivot to limiting abortion to 6 weeks vs 15 weeks gives The Donald ammo against him. I am not happy about this, do not want DJ Trump getting a leg up. However, jp, you may remember that the abortion issue is a state issue, so Desantis may not be playing well to the Florida audience, but if he reminds everyone that each state gets to decide their abortion law, he may be ok.
As has been made clear by Lindsay graham, Alan, that judge in Amarillo and many other republicans abortion is very much not a state issue and no Republican who makes that claim, even if they actually mean it, is going to be believed.
As has been made clear by Lindsay graham, Alan, that judge in Amarillo and many other republicans abortion is very much not a state issue and no Republican who makes that claim, even if they actually mean it, is going to be believed.
When I offered to discuss this federalism issue with you in a thread dedicated to the subject, you declined. So why do you keep trying to bring me back into it?
It seemed relevant to the conversation to point out that plenty of republicans don’t think federalism applies to the conversation. Unlike our former president I’m not a big believer in using the ‘some people are saying…’ method of debating.
iris lilies
4-21-23, 1:57pm
It seemed relevant to the conversation to point out that plenty of republicans don’t think federalism applies to the conversation. Unlike our former president I’m not a big believer in using the ‘some people are saying…’ method of debating.
Yet, you continually tell me and others like me what we think. You so often mis characterize what the monolithic Republican group, the monolithic conservative group, etc. think.
Frankly, I was surprised to see you mention “moderate” Republicans in post #385.
How about a thought exercise? What if, instead of federal legislation limiting states ability to allow abortions past a certain period, he was actually talking about federal legislation recognizing the life, and subsequent right to life, of a fetus at a certain point in its development? Legislation not mentioning abortion but rather recognizing the moral imperative of protecting the unborn's natural, God given right to life that all we previously born enjoy.
I guess I’m stupid for thinking that this is an argument that federalism shouldn’t apply to abortion.
I guess I’m stupid for thinking that this is an argument that federalism shouldn’t apply to abortion.
No, you're just seeing what you want to see. My thought exercise simply suggests that if the federal government legislated a point in-vitro when all humans natural right to life began, whether that be at 6 weeks, 12 weeks, 18 weeks or whatever, the states could then tailor their abortion laws with that in mind. The only real effect it would have is that those progressive states which threaten to allow abortion on demand up to the point of natural birth would have to rethink their blatant disregard for the sanctity of life. I'm not sure why you think that would be a rejection of federalism.
Trying to claim that abortion is still a state's right issue while simultaneously claiming that the federal government should be legislating that life begins at some random point during a pregnancy is silliness. By your logic abortion could still be a state's right issue with a law that after 4 weeks of pregnancy the embryo is now considered a human being with a right to life. Yet no one would be able to get an abortion anywhere because few women even know that they are pregnant at 4 weeks.
But in any case, no one who is pro choice is going to be dumb enough to trust any republican that says they think abortion is an issue for the states to decide.
Trying to claim that abortion is still a state's right issue while simultaneously claiming that the federal government should be legislating that life begins at some random point during a pregnancy is silliness..
I suppose that if you believe that the right to life only kicks in at the moment of natural birth, not one day sooner, you might think that. Thankfully you're still an outlier on that subject.
All states already restrict the ability of one person to take the life of another previously born person except in cases of self defense or serious bodily harm. And, virtually all states use their existing legal systems to prosecute the death of a fetus at the hands of a domestic abuser or other criminal, although not in cases of abortion. Are you implying they should not, as according to you, that fetus doesn't deserve that protection?
The fourteenth amendment says "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws." It doesn't say "conceived or naturalized in the United States" or "conceived and carried through X weeks of pregnancy or naturalized". If one believes in the "originalism" concept of interpreting the constitution it's difficult to see how the idea of federalism shouldn't grant the states entire jurisdiction over whether a not yet born person has any rights.
The fourteenth amendment says ......
Thank you for a considered opinion based upon something of substance. I would counter that the reference to citizens does not exclude someone not yet considered a citizen from the natural rights citizens enjoy. It even points that out in the 'nor shall any state deprive any person' section.
Even if you stipulate full humanity and rights at the moment of conception, you still need to resolve the conflict between the mother's rights and the baby's rights in a manner that considers both.
catherine
4-21-23, 10:28pm
Even if you stipulate full humanity and rights at the moment of conception, you still need to resolved the conflict between the mother's rights and the baby's rights in a manner that considers both.
Yes. And no one has determined what human values constitute the right to life, liberty and the right to happiness. If it's pure sentience, as Peter Singer maintains, a barely 8 week embryo would not have as much right to life as its mother. I'd like to know on what basis embryos should be given preferred status over a living, sentient being? In our culture, it seems that there is always a point when it is determined that one living human life is less valued vs than another. The life of a criminal is less valued than that of an upstanding member of society. The life of a Taliban is less valued than that of a flag-waving American. The life of a refugee is less valued than that of a full-fledged citizen.
And all that simply concerns the life of the born. So on what basis are you valuing the life of the unborn--the embryo--over the life of a woman who is trying to procure for herself the blessings of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness?
Even if you stipulate full humanity and rights at the moment of conception, you still need to resolved the conflict between the mother's rights and the baby's rights in a manner that considers both.
Yes, but for the purposes of this discussion I can't imagine the moment of conception ever being memorialized as the time a group of cells becomes a person. I believe there is a point when it does, I just don't know when that might be, perhaps at the moment of viability although that seems to be a moving target with the advancement of pre/post natal care. Perhaps at the moment a fetus begins to react to outside stimulus or feels pain or something else that remains a constant. At that point I would think the fetus would qualify for the same protections previously born persons enjoy.
As for the conflict off rights when considering terminating one, I'd think that the standard of when the life of the mother or serious bodily harm may ensue, as already exists in the lawful use of lethal force, the mother's right to life takes precedence.
Thank you for a considered opinion based upon something of substance. I would counter that the reference to citizens does not exclude someone not yet considered a citizen from the natural rights citizens enjoy. It even points that out in the 'nor shall any state deprive any person' section.
And thank you for your response. My post was actually a spitball that I spent only a few minutes contemplating. And your question is something that I recognized but didn’t have an answer to.
I doubt the founders seriously considered abortion in any shape or form because it, and birth control, just weren’t a thing then. And pregnant people and their fetuses and even young birthed children, died regularly. Trying to claim that the founders had one thought or another regarding pre-humans is probably us ascribing 2000’s perspective on 1700’s people.
Might want to look into the history there, abortion was known and performed in the 1700s. Franklin even includes some methods in a book of his from 1748.
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/05/10/bryan-slaton-groomer-backlash-legislatur/
“It’s no surprise that the man obsessed with children’s bodies — especially transgender kids — is a predator,” González said in a statement. “The courage to stop a predator has to extend to opposing his crusade to fixate the entire state on children’s genitals. He’s been calling my community ‘perverts’ and ‘groomers’ for years — when it turns out he should’ve invested in a good mirror.”
https://www.texastribune.org/2023/05/10/bryan-slaton-groomer-backlash-legislatur/
These old men ranting about other people's sex lives have always been suspect, bringing hypocrisy to stunning new levels.
These old men ranting about other people's sex lives have always been suspect, bringing hypocrisy to stunning new levels.
Some of them seem awfully concerned with inspecting other folks' genitalia under force of law.
flowerseverywhere
5-11-23, 4:18pm
Some of them seem awfully concerned with inspecting other folks' genitalia under force of law.
I would laugh but it is not funny. But the obsession with reproductive organs, inside and out is ridiculous. You do you. Deal with inflation, immigration, homelessness and so on. Distraction and drama does not solve true problems.
iris lilies
5-12-23, 10:24am
Some of them seem awfully concerned with inspecting other folks' genitalia under force of law.
The lawmakers and federal regulators and President Biden should stay out of it, but how strange it is that so many health professionals are uncomfortable with the existing genitalia and secondary sex characteristics of their patients and counsel them to cut it off, invert it, or shrink it with medication, etc.
The lawmakers and federal regulators and President Biden should stay out of it, but how strange it is that so many health professionals are uncomfortable with the existing genitalia and secondary sex characteristics of their patients and counsel them to cut it off, invert it, or shrink it with medication, etc.
One of the real frustrations of of dealing this condition is the way medical professionals seem so fearful of putting their foot wrong politically. You wonder if you’re getting a genuine opinion or an institutional party line.
Every June gay pride events are held to celebrate the anniversary of a bunch of drag queens in NYC who stood up to the police. Now, 54 years later, Wilton Manors Florida will have a gay pride celebration with no drag queens because now drag queens are illegal in Florida. Maybe it's time for Stonewall v. 2.0.
https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2023/05/florida-city-bans-drag-shows-from-pride-because-ron-desantis-may-sign-drag-ban/
Every June gay pride events are held to celebrate the anniversary of a bunch of drag queens in NYC who stood up to the police. Now, 54 years later, Wilton Manors Florida will have a gay pride celebration with no drag queens because now drag queens are illegal in Florida. Maybe it's time for Stonewall v. 2.0.
https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2023/05/florida-city-bans-drag-shows-from-pride-because-ron-desantis-may-sign-drag-ban/
Actually no, drag queens are not illegal in Florida. A bill in the legislature, although not yet signed by the Governor, would make it illegal for communities to issue permits for adult themed live performances in the presence of minors. In anticipation of the law's probable signing, the city of Wilton Manors has decided they can't trust the Drag Queens to limit their participation to family friendly themes and have declined to issue them the permit they need for the parade.
So the drag queens are being preemptively silenced for something they ‘might’ do?
So the drag queens are being preemptively silenced for something they ‘might’ do?
I suspect it's not what they "might" do, but rather what they have "already" done at every other parade and have not agreed to not do again.
iris lilies
5-16-23, 12:32pm
So the drag queens are being preemptively silenced for something they ‘might’ do?
There’s plenty of evidence nationwide, and in the UK that no, we cannot trust drag queens to put on an age-appropriate show. I put it down to the fact that so many of these men/women/persons in this community just are not around children often enough to know what is appropriate entertainment for a public family friendly event.
That said, I’m not sure a gay pride parade is a place I would expect to be entirely antiseptic. And it’s not the queens who are necessarily providing provocative parade entries because plenty of masc folks are out there Twerking dance moves in erotic gear.
Unfortunately, it is a toggle switch between “public performance” “and “private venue “ and because the flamboyant LGBTQI etc crowd did not keep their adult entertainment in adult -only venues, now we have this, a hard line.
They did it to themselves.
Crying because they can’t shake their booty in a public street…too bad, so sad.
iris lilies
5-16-23, 1:08pm
Wow.
What do you mean? Perhaps you could, you know, use your words rather than the implied name calling.
Potentially of interest to some:
https://juliaserano.medium.com/gender-affirming-care-for-trans-youth-is-neither-new-nor-experimental-a-timeline-and-compilation-b4bb8375d797
Imagine if a city said ‘nope. Not going to have a st Patrick’s day parade this year because we all know they just gonna get drunk and cause havoc.’ Or ‘nope. No Puerto rican day parade because they are just going to turn it into a gang event and start shooting the place up. ‘
But whatever. I get it. There are people on this board that think the damn drag queens should have stayed in the closet and the world would be a better place if stonewall hadn’t happened. Thankfully you aren’t in the majority in this country anymore and probably never will be again.
There are people on this board that think the damn drag queens should have stayed in the closet and the world would be a better place if stonewall hadn’t happened. I'm pretty sure you're wrong about people on this board. I think it would be more accurate to say there are people on this board who believe drag queens, and everyone else, should limit their adult oriented presentations and activities to adult venues, not in the presence of children.
It's like your previous complaints about "book banning" in schools. If some of us on this board feel that some material should not be provided to minors without parental approval that doesn't mean we're in favor of banning books. A good rule of thumb for dealing with those materials might be that if a parent cannot read text from a book at a public school board meeting because it would be inappropriate in a public forum, or if your local newscast cannot air graphics from the book without violating FCC regulations, it probably also shouldn't be available to minors at school.
Thankfully you aren’t in the majority in this country anymore and probably never will be again.I think you're wrong about that too, your bubble is smaller than you think.
I'm pretty sure you're wrong about people on this board. I think it would be more accurate to say there are people on this board who believe drag queens, and everyone else, should limit their adult oriented presentations and activities to adult venues, not in the presence of children.
So you think that justifies people being pre-banned from the pride celebration based on what they might do?
I look forward to the inevitable upcoming arrests of drag queens at pride events for simply existing. I just hope the cops arresting them don't go all Derek Chauvin on them. The first amendment cases will be a good test of the attempts by people to take this country back to the bad old days when LGBTQ people had to cower in fear.
I think you're wrong about that too, your bubble is smaller than you think.
Apparently I have more faith in the American people than you do. Although after watching trump's sad infomercial last week on CNN you may be right. The people in that audience surely shook my confidence in the decency of Americans.
I look forward to the inevitable upcoming arrests of drag queens at pride events for simply existing. .
I'm sure you do look forward to an actual case of victimization taking place to justify all the made up victimization you talk about here, but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.
I'm sure you do look forward to an actual case of victimization taking place to justify all the made up victimization you talk about here, but I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.
And I’m sure you look forward to Ron desantis ****ing over LGBTQ.people as best he can, just like other old people on this board that have been outspoken haters of trans folks and drag queens.
And thanks for avoiding my question about pre-banning drag queens from the pride event Alan. Your avoidance just confirmed what is blatantly obvious to anyone who actually gives a shit about trans people.
iris lilies
5-17-23, 9:27am
And thanks for avoiding my question about pre-banning drag queens from the pride event Alan. Your avoidance just confirmed what is blatantly obvious to anyone who actually gives a shit about trans people.
As an aside, I find it interesting that you conflate “ trans people” with “drag queens.” That seems…unwoke to me.
And thanks for avoiding my question about pre-banning drag queens from the pride event Alan. Your avoidance just confirmed what is blatantly obvious to anyone who actually gives a shit about trans people.
I didn't intend to avoid answering your question, I actually thought I had several comments ago, so I'll try again.
According to your linked article "S.B. 1438 (https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/1438/BillText/e1/PDF) prohibits government entities from issuing permits to organizations that may hold “adult live performances” in the presence of minors. The bill defines “adult live performance” as “any show, exhibition, or other presentation in front of a live audience which, in whole or in part, depicts or simulates nudity, sexual conduct, sexual excitement, or specific sexual activities… lewd conduct, or the lewd exposure of prosthetic or imitation genitals or breasts.”
Not having any particular insight into the city's reasoning, I can only assume that they have no confidence in the drag groups willingness to observe the proposed restrictions. Do you have any insight as to why that may be?
And I’m sure you look forward to Ron desantis ****ing over LGBTQ.people as best he can, just like other old people on this board that have been outspoken haters of trans folks and drag queens.
I'm not sure what Ron DeSantis is doing to LGBTQ people, can you explain? I'm also not aware of anyone on this site expressing hate towards trans folks or drag queens, are you confusing our group with another site somewhere?
littlebittybobby
5-17-23, 12:11pm
Okay----I tell you what---Fla has more colorful characters(including ALPHABET People) than any other state in the union! So yeah---tell me how De Santis could get elected if he is anti-everything? Ha. Gotcha. Hope that helps you some. Thankk Mee.5456
I didn't intend to avoid answering your question, I actually thought I had several comments ago, so I'll try again.
According to your linked article "S.B. 1438 (https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/1438/BillText/e1/PDF) prohibits government entities from issuing permits to organizations that may hold “adult live performances” in the presence of minors. The bill defines “adult live performance” as “any show, exhibition, or other presentation in front of a live audience which, in whole or in part, depicts or simulates nudity, sexual conduct, sexual excitement, or specific sexual activities… lewd conduct, or the lewd exposure of prosthetic or imitation genitals or breasts.”
Not having any particular insight into the city's reasoning, I can only assume that they have no confidence in the drag groups willingness to observe the proposed restrictions. Do you have any insight as to why that may be?
So you'd be ok if a city, say NYC, denied a permit for the St Patrick's Day parade if they cited the reason as being that they doubted the ability of Irish Americans to have a parade without getting drunk and breaking the law?
I'm not sure what Ron DeSantis is doing to LGBTQ people, can you explain?
I probably can't explain it in a way that you would understand because you have repeatedly made it clear here that you are simply unwilling to/incapable of understand that with which you don't have personal experience. If something doesn't come from a cis het white male perspective it's seemingly beyond your comprehension. Anytime anyone has tried to explain a different perspective you simply mock them or tell them their perspective is irrelevant or "wrong" somehow.
So you'd be ok if a city, say NYC, denied a permit for the St Patrick's Day parade if they cited the reason as being that they doubted the ability of Irish Americans to have a parade without getting drunk and breaking the law?
If they had a history of it and had no intention of changing then, yes, I'd be OK with it.
I'm not saying that's what happened in Florida, there's not enough information in your article to tell and frankly, I've not seen any other accounts of it so to me that seems the most likely scenario. In other words, if you don't have evidence otherwise I don't think the drag queens were singled out for being drag queens so there must be a valid reason to question their ability to stay within the legislation's requirements.
I probably can't explain it in a way that you would understand because you have repeatedly made it clear here that you are simply unwilling to/incapable of understand that with which you don't have personal experience.
When you do find a way to explain, please let me know. I'm curious.
When you do find a way to explain, please let me know. I'm curious.
Ok. Here's a challenge. Pick any of the books that has been banned from a Florida school library (there are plenty to choose from) and tell us why you agree or disagree with the banning. I'm personally curious about James Patterson's "Maximum Ride" series, since he IS my namesake. I'm not familiar with these particular books. If you can explain what is inappropriate for high school students (since the don't say gay law has now been expanded to include everyone up through high school) about the books we could maybe have a conversation.
Ok. Here's a challenge. Pick any of the books that has been banned from a Florida school library (there are plenty to choose from) and tell us why you agree or disagree with the banning. I'm personally curious about James Patterson's "Maximum Ride" series, since he IS my namesake. I'm not familiar with these particular books. If you can explain what is inappropriate for high school students (since the don't say gay law has now been expanded to include everyone up through high school) about the books we could maybe have a conversation.
Ok, I had to do about 5 minutes of research on this one because I hadn't heard of the Maximum Ride series itself or its banning. What I did discover was that it was apparently removed from one elementary school in Florida due to a parent complaint that it was not appropriate for elementary school students as it is apparently marketed for children 12 and above. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with your so called "Don't Say Gay" law, and no high school students in the district were harmed by its removal from a school they haven't attended for at least 3 years.
For the record, I don't have a problem with that.
Ok, I had to do about 5 minutes of research on this one because I hadn't heard of the Maximum Ride series itself or its banning. What I did discover was that it was apparently removed from one elementary school in Florida due to a parent complaint that it was not appropriate for elementary school students as it is apparently marketed for children 12 and above. It doesn't seem to have anything to do with your so called "Don't Say Gay" law, and no high school students in the district were harmed by its removal from a school they haven't attended for at least 3 years.
For the record, I don't have a problem with that.
Apparently you missed my "inappropriate for high school students" suggestion. My namesakes' books weren't just removed from elementary schools. They have been removed from all schools up to high school. Try again.
iris lilies
5-18-23, 12:45am
Have either of you actually READ any James Patterson books?
Their literary value is zero. I find them inappropriate to be on planet earth. But he is hugely popular, huge, I’m not surprised his cottage industry is producing books for youth. Ca-Ching.
Once I was forced to listen to an audio book by James Patterson on a car trip, and I couldn’t believe how stupid it was, the author kept repeating known facts in this murder mystery as though the readers all had ADHD and we forgot what he had said 15 pages earlier.
rosarugosa
5-18-23, 6:10am
Have either of you actually READ any James Patterson books?
Their literary value is zero. I find them inappropriate to be on planet earth. But he is hugely popular, huge, I’m not surprised his cottage industry is producing books for youth. Ca-Ching.
Once I was forced to listen to an audio book by James Patterson on a car trip, and I couldn’t believe how stupid it was, the author kept repeating known facts in this murder mystery as though the readers all had ADHD and we forgot what he had said 15 pages earlier.
I read one a long time ago, and it was lousy enough that I never read another. I cannot fathom his popularity.
Apparently you missed my "inappropriate for high school students" suggestion. My namesakes' books weren't just removed from elementary schools. They have been removed from all schools up to high school. Try again.
Well, according to this newspaper article https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/2023/03/16/list-florida-school-district-removes-books-sex-racial-content-martin-county/70009140007/, that's not correct.
"Jennifer DeShazo, public information director for the Martin County School District, said Wednesday that Patterson’s "Maximum Ride" series was removed from the district's elementary school libraries after a Feb. 1 reconsideration request.That request, submitted by Stuart resident Julie Marshall, asked that all nine books in the series be removed because she considered them a young-adult series that "does not belong in elementary school libraries," she wrote in her objection form to the school district. She asked for the books to be placed in "upper-level" school libraries.
"Marshall, who filed most of the challenges to the Martin County School District's book titles, indicated on her form that she has not "read or viewed" the "Maximum Ride" series.
She also indicated that the book series has no "serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value for students."
The books were removed from two elementary schools in Martin County around Feb. 20 and placed in the district’s middle schools, DeShazo said.
"The titles were reconsidered following Florida’s statutorily-prescribed process and moved from elementary libraries to middle school, which is aligned with the recommended reading age of 12+ for the series,” DeShazo said. “(Patterson’s) titles are available to students at the middle school level"
iris lilies
5-18-23, 10:19am
Well, according to this newspaper article https://www.tcpalm.com/story/news/2023/03/16/list-florida-school-district-removes-books-sex-racial-content-martin-county/70009140007/, that's not correct.
"Jennifer DeShazo, public information director for the Martin County School District, said Wednesday that Patterson’s "Maximum Ride" series was removed from the district's elementary school libraries after a Feb. 1 reconsideration request.That request, submitted by Stuart resident Julie Marshall, asked that all nine books in the series be removed because she considered them a young-adult series that "does not belong in elementary school libraries," she wrote in her objection form to the school district. She asked for the books to be placed in "upper-level" school libraries.
"Marshall, who filed most of the challenges to the Martin County School District's book titles, indicated on her form that she has not "read or viewed" the "Maximum Ride" series.
She also indicated that the book series has no "serious literary, artistic, political or scientific value for students."
The books were removed from two elementary schools in Martin County around Feb. 20 and placed in the district’s middle schools, DeShazo said.
"The titles were reconsidered following Florida’s statutorily-prescribed process and moved from elementary libraries to middle school, which is aligned with the recommended reading age of 12+ for the series,” DeShazo said. “(Patterson’s) titles are available to students at the middle school level"
Some books are tricky as to placement in youth collections, and when you have a hard boundary such as “elementary school” or “middle school” or “high school” with defined beginning and end ages, some titles may be difficult to put into the right slot.
Why jp, you may remember that your compatriot frugal-one was adamant about removing a book from a public library teen collection for inappropriate sexual content. It happens, even with the most dedicated of the Trump haters.
http://www.simplelivingforum.net/showthread.php?19683-Book-Banning/page2&highlight=Picoult
iris lilies
5-18-23, 12:44pm
Potentially of interest to some:
https://juliaserano.medium.com/gender-affirming-care-for-trans-youth-is-neither-new-nor-experimental-a-timeline-and-compilation-b4bb8375d797
are there points in this article you especially subscribe to?
I’m reading it and I’m collecting my thoughts about it and you can be assured that I have some thoughts about it. Will post later assuming this paid site doesn’t boot me off.
And have Republicans--our moral gatekeepers--weighed in on Mardi Gras parades? Surely "Show us your tits!" is an affront to right-thinking people everywhere. Or is it just Pride parades that offend them?
iris lilies
5-18-23, 2:04pm
And have Republican--our moral gatekeepers--weighed in on Mardi Gras parades? Surely "Show us your tits!" is an affront to right-thinking people everywhere. Or is it just Pride parades that offend them?
That is a good analogy because the beer ‘n tits really do come out for Mardi Gras..
But…it is highly unlikely that the little places that ban Pride parades have Mardi .pGras parades.
https://www.wfla.com/news/hillsborough-county/tampa-pride-event-cancelled-after-desantis-signs-anti-drag-bill/
iris lilies
5-18-23, 4:54pm
I wonder if the gay pride parades that continue this year will allow uniformed police officers? Many of them have forbidden that in the past.
They are inclusive to all— except for some.
Some animals are more equal than others.
iris lilies
6-3-23, 12:37pm
are there points in this article you especially subscribe to?
I’m reading it and I’m collecting my thoughts about it and you can be assured that I have some thoughts about it. Will post later assuming this paid site doesn’t boot me off.
i’ve been going down a trans literature rabbit hole and will be reading Julia Serano’s seminal work Whipping Girl. I may or may not report on that.
As for this article, it is easy to shoot the messenger and I don’t intend that, but I think it’s important to understand that Julia Serrano is a trans person and a trans activist, and she makes her living writing about trans issues. She calls herself a “scientist “but she certainly is not a practicing professional in the mental or physical health community.
As an aside, I find these days that calling oneself a “scientist” is intended as a discussion limiting label because if I am a scientist, you may not disagree with any of my assertions which, of course,is not at all the scientific method.
Anyway—-
The tone of this article is reasonable and she makes a couple good points, mainly that more trans people are coming out in society because it is more acceptable. She references the left hand/right hand analogy. She also strongly asserts that backing off from “affirmative care “is actually no care and it is harmful care. I disagree because careful thoughtful therapy is always appropriate yet transactivists consider that “conversion” therapy. Nonsense.
I do like the fact that Julia cites several recent studies from the years 2021, 2022, and 2023 but they do, of course bolster her arguments. And she realistically says that those who disagree with her can go out and find Other studies that will bolster THEIR argument.Her recognition of this adds to the reasonableness of her argument.
It does not mention at all, and this is a major lack, of the co morbidities that many trans youth have. In other words, they have mental illness challenges, autism, etc.
She cites the old chestnut of suicides for trans folks not supported despite those comorbidities, and studies that give context and elsborate and even conflict with that.
The. Umber of detransitioners cannot be measured but there are growing communities of them, oroviding support firvezch other that the LGB?t etc community does not provide.
So yeah, I see this as a well written article from a decided point of view from someone who makes their living promoting a specific point of view about transgender individuals.
In the rabbit hole I’ve gone down, I encountered the Utah legislator, who is a Republican, who is very pro trans for his state, but in reality, he’s really a libertarian. So, it’s not hard to be a libertarian and want the state to stay out of private matters such as specific health treatments.
I also watched a video about Dr. Marci Bowers who is probably the leading trans surgeon in the country, and several things came out of that I found interesting which I may expound on further at another time.
A final thought: my voice to text software writes “trance” instead of “ trans.” Does that mean he/she/they are transphobic since they won’t even use the word?
iris lilies
6-3-23, 1:15pm
https://abigailshrier.substack.com/p/why-marci-matters
dr. Marci bowers is pro trans surgery having done 2000 vaginaplasties, i.e. bottom surgeries. She played a role in fixing some of Jazz Jennings’surgical problems. She is very well-known in the trans world.
The article above mentioned some of the problems she sees in current trans medical treatments. I’m not sure you’ll be able to read this sub stack article because it might be behind a pay wall but you can get the gist of it in a couple of paragraphs.
Lack of orgasmic function is one of the problems coming to light very recently, all due to puberty blockers given at younger ages. That is pretty awful.
Dr. Bowers and E. Anderson are experiencing quite a lot of pushback and social censure for speaking to Abigail Shrier in this article I cited. It’s encouraging that these 2 leaders in the trans health community are counseling some caution in these issues.
From the comments section if this article:
“…Imagine a world where the feminine boy and the masculine girl are supported and loved exactly as they are, with no pressure to change a thing about themselves.”
“…Imagine a world where the feminine boy and the masculine girl are supported and loved exactly as they are, with no pressure to change a thing about themselves.”
That's certainly the way it should be.
Well, we certainly do live in bizarre times. First we have Ted Cruz speaking out against Uganda's kill the gays law, which was startling on it's own. But then we have the asshole that delivered the invocation at DeSantis' inauguration blasting Cruz for pointing out that the Ugandan law is horrific and wrong. Assuming a member of the press ever gets close enough to DeSantis to ask him about it (a big if considering how terrified he is (with good reason) of talking to the press, I wonder if DeSantis will 1) ignore the whole thing and pretend not to know anything about the doublespeak answer the asshole gave when being called out, 2) offer a tepid "I just want gay people to shut up and go back in the closet, not get stoned to death" response, or 3) actually agree with Cruz's very reasonable statement.
Well, we certainly do live in bizarre times.
It's been interesting to watch Democrats and the press (sorry for being repetitious) go to such extremes trying to diminish DeSantis through innuendo and false claims. Bizarre times indeed.
That horrific Ugandan law was enthusiastically encouraged by a bunch of American evangelists--who should, were there such a place, burn in hell for ignoring Christ's teachings.
littlebittybobby
6-4-23, 1:47pm
Okay----Uganda has gotten bad press by The Liberal Media, for a long time, now. Prolly the reason is, the country is not leftist enough. But you know what? Awhile back, I looked on g-maps and the street view of Uganda, and it looks pretty livable. As you know, western nations have a tendency to pave the earth over completely, and big real estate owns the means of consumption--real estate on every byway. Uganda has lots and lots of small businesses selling stuff. The urban layout isn't all crammed together, as in latin America. That tells me something. So, I figure any time Uganda can be held up as an example of non-lefty behavior, Big Media goes for it.
It's been interesting to watch Democrats and the press (sorry for being repetitious) go to such extremes trying to diminish DeSantis through innuendo and false claims. Bizarre times indeed.
So the guy didn’t speak at desantis’ inauguration? Or is it that you think desantis enjoys, and is good at, speaking to the press?
Okay----Uganda has gotten bad press by The Liberal Media, for a long time, now. Prolly the reason is, the country is not leftist enough. But you know what? Awhile back, I looked on g-maps and the street view of Uganda, and it looks pretty livable. As you know, western nations have a tendency to pave the earth over completely, and big real estate owns the means of consumption--real estate on every byway. Uganda has lots and lots of small businesses selling stuff. The urban layout isn't all crammed together, as in latin America. That tells me something. So, I figure any time Uganda can be held up as an example of non-lefty behavior, Big Media goes for it.
Uganda doesn’t look livable to me. In fact it’s not livable for me now that I am punishable by death. It must be nice to have the luxury of being a cisgender heterosexual male and be able to ignore things like Uganda’s new law.
So the guy didn’t speak at desantis’ inauguration? Or is it that you think desantis enjoys, and is good at, speaking to the press?
I have no idea who spoke at the inauguration, if you say someone did and they later said something you find offensive, I believe you. As for public speaking and the press, I get the feeling DeSantis is a little more introverted than the average politician, but I don't find that to be a hindrance to governance and I doubt you would either if he was a Democrat.
That preacher has been offensive since long before he spoke at feds this inauguration. Far more offensive than Jeremiah wright, who republicans were all bent out of shape about. And Obama didn’t invite weight to speak at his inauguration.
The few times I’ve seen desantis speak unscripted to the media he has come across not as introverted but as incredibly thin skinned. I imagine that will become evident to even his most ardent supporters when he hits true debate stage.
Whether or not someone is an introvert has nothing to do with his/her character.
iris lilies
6-4-23, 4:36pm
Whether or not someone is an introvert has nothing to do with his/her character.
For politicians it is a handicap.
as for the Reverend Jeremiah Wright (who I completely forgot about) geez, JP, don’t you think President Obama had taken the hint of the displeasure of many for his close association with that racist preacher guy, you know, the one who married him and baptize his children, and had enough sense not to bring him along to Washington DC? He left all that in Chicago where it belongs.
For politicians it is a handicap. ...
I agree it can be a handicap. Wasn't Nixon an introvert? At any rate, I won't be running for office any time soon...:~)
Rundown of introverts who were US presidents:https://www.inc.com/john-rampton/are-you-an-introvert-so-were-these-10-us-presidents.html
littlebittybobby
6-4-23, 10:28pm
Uganda doesn’t look livable to me. In fact it’s not livable for me now that I am punishable by death. It must be nice to have the luxury of being a cisgender heterosexual male and be able to ignore things like Uganda’s new law.Well, then don't move there, and startup a small shop selling TV sets or shoes or furniture. Move to San Francisco, where you'll fit right in, and try and find anything affordable to rent, much less startup a business. That said--start seeing a pattern that leads to success, not to failure. Hope that helps you some.
Well, then don't move there, and startup a small shop selling TV sets or shoes or furniture. Move to San Francisco, where you'll fit right in, and try and find anything affordable to rent, much less startup a business. That said--start seeing a pattern that leads to success, not to failure. Hope that helps you some.
I’m living the successful life in the Bay Area thank you very much. Not gonna move to a shithole like southwest mizzoira. Or Uganda. Is there much difference? Hope that helps sum. Thank meeee…
i’ve been going down a trans literature rabbit hole and will be reading Julia Serano’s seminal work Whipping Girl. I may or may not report on that.
As for this article, it is easy to shoot the messenger and I don’t intend that, but I think it’s important to understand that Julia Serrano is a trans person and a trans activist, and she makes her living writing about trans issues. She calls herself a “scientist “but she certainly is not a practicing professional in the mental or physical health community.
As an aside, I find these days that calling oneself a “scientist” is intended as a discussion limiting label because if I am a scientist, you may not disagree with any of my assertions which, of course,is not at all the scientific method.
Anyway—-
The tone of this article is reasonable and she makes a couple good points, mainly that more trans people are coming out in society because it is more acceptable. She references the left hand/right hand analogy. She also strongly asserts that backing off from “affirmative care “is actually no care and it is harmful care. I disagree because careful thoughtful therapy is always appropriate yet transactivists consider that “conversion” therapy. Nonsense.
I do like the fact that Julia cites several recent studies from the years 2021, 2022, and 2023 but they do, of course bolster her arguments. And she realistically says that those who disagree with her can go out and find Other studies that will bolster THEIR argument.Her recognition of this adds to the reasonableness of her argument.
It does not mention at all, and this is a major lack, of the co morbidities that many trans youth have. In other words, they have mental illness challenges, autism, etc.
She cites the old chestnut of suicides for trans folks not supported despite those comorbidities, and studies that give context and elsborate and even conflict with that.
The. Umber of detransitioners cannot be measured but there are growing communities of them, oroviding support firvezch other that the LGB?t etc community does not provide.
So yeah, I see this as a well written article from a decided point of view from someone who makes their living promoting a specific point of view about transgender individuals.
In the rabbit hole I’ve gone down, I encountered the Utah legislator, who is a Republican, who is very pro trans for his state, but in reality, he’s really a libertarian. So, it’s not hard to be a libertarian and want the state to stay out of private matters such as specific health treatments.
I also watched a video about Dr. Marci Bowers who is probably the leading trans surgeon in the country, and several things came out of that I found interesting which I may expound on further at another time.
A final thought: my voice to text software writes “trance” instead of “ trans.” Does that mean he/she/they are transphobic since they won’t even use the word?
I think you would really like Annabel by Kathleen Winter.
iris lilies
6-6-23, 9:37am
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=dBRJorDjG88&pp=ygUfVHJpZ2dlcm5vbWV0cnkgY29udmVydCBteSBjaGlsZA% 3D%3D
This is a video interview with a lesbian mother, who came to the realization that she was actively leading her sons into transgender ism, and who now condemns the movement as a “belief system.” Her tone is reasonable, realistic, and regret for her role during the two years her kids explored their trans identities. Fortunately, no medical treatment took place. They were too young.
https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-transyouth-outcomes/
A good article about why about the overview of “detransitioners” with estimates on that population’s numbers, and commentary on why the lack of studies of anything that might be considered against the transgender ideology is dangerous for researchers. Dr. Debra Soh, sexuality researcher in Canada, has said, that is why she left academia, because there was no freedom to research the topics she wanted to research, they were considered trans phobic.
iris lilies
6-6-23, 9:39am
Rosa, I just read the review on Amazon about the book “Annabel” and it does sound intriguing. I might try that one.
flowerseverywhere
6-22-23, 4:01am
https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/hospital-turns-transgender-patient-records-tennessee-attorney-general-100257488
This is frightening. I don't care what the situation is. Can politicians and their enforcers gaining access to medical records resist the temptation to use them as retribution or punishment for political gain? I certainly would not trust my governor now presidential candidate DeSantis.
Patients are rightfully frightened.
iris lilies
6-22-23, 10:49am
https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/hospital-turns-transgender-patient-records-tennessee-attorney-general-100257488
This is frightening. I don't care what the situation is. Can politicians and their enforcers gaining access to medical records resist the temptation to use them as retribution or punishment for political gain? I certainly would not trust my governor now presidential candidate DeSantis.
Patients are rightfully frightened.
you are wise to be suspicious of government overreach in obtaining and using any personal information, any government of any level be it the feds or the state.
But in answer to your question yes apparently governmental entities can obtain patient health information through exclusions in HIPPA and also through the abomination known as the Patriot Act. The Patriot Act was signed, sealed delivered and affirmed by your favorite Democrats as well as Republicans so everyone had their hand in creating this monstrosity.
But they don’t even need to get court orders to use personal information in a threatening way. We can all remember the Obama goons at the IRS harassing politically conservative organizations through their tool of taxation. Did any IRS heads roll for that fiasco? President Obama had the power to do that, but I doubt that he did it.
iris lilies
6-30-23, 11:00am
I was genuinely surprised to see the presence of “Gays Against Groomers” at the downtown St. Louis Pride event last weekend. The news showed a video clip, and I was gratified to see they were young people, well, at least they weren’t old like me, and some of them were young enough to be my granddaughters. There was about six or seven shown in the video clip, and they were respectful and just making their presence known.
i’m not sure if this would be considered harassment and counted as one of the 346 instances of violence against the LGBT community currently being measured. I wouldn’t be surprised if it is marked down in that “hate action” column. Whatever.
To refresh everyone’s memory, Gays Against Groomers object to medicalized transition of minors who believe they are transgender.
iris lilies
6-30-23, 11:48am
The Anti Defamation League paired up with GLAAD to count incidents of crimes against the LGBTQ, etc. community. They counted 356 cases in 9 months.
https://www.adl.org/anti-lgbtq-hate-bigotry-and-extremism
I wonder if the trans activist who came after the Tennessee leader of Gays Against Groomers with a broken bottle will be reported as a hate crime? This happened in downtown St. Louis a few days ago.
Why wouldn’t it be reported, it’s a harassing threat against an LGBT, etc. person? Seems logical to me. The Tennessee leader Micki Cutler talked about her interaction with that trans activist in a Twitter video which I am unable to link to.
I actually think it’s useful to have some sort of accounting mechanism since we hear all the time about the hate crimes against the LGBT community. I’m just not sure the methodology is sound, though. Fact is, as I look through the reporting form, it is pretty unsound.
catherine
6-30-23, 11:49am
So, I was at a Master Gardener meeting at the local library, which I'm sure has a very small patronage, given the population of the town (939). We were talking about doing basic botany for kids, and one of our MGs who is also on the library board mentioned off-handedly that the drag queen story hour is by far the most popular offering the library has for kids.
Just sayin'
I have no idea what the content of this offering is, and given that this county in VT is very split liberal/conservative, now I'm curious. I may steal a grandkid and check it out the next time it comes around.
iris lilies
6-30-23, 12:01pm
So, I was at a Master Gardener meeting at the local library, which I'm sure has a very small patronage, given the population of the town (939). We were talking about doing basic botany for kids, and one of our MGs who is also on the library board mentioned off-handedly that the drag queen story hour is by far the most popular offering the library has for kids.
Just sayin'
I have no idea what the content of this offering is, and given that this county in VT is very split liberal/conservative, now I'm curious. I may steal a grandkid and check it out the next time it comes around.
yes, no doubt. I saw a video of Drag Queen Story Hour at the St. Louis Public library downtown facility, which is always hard to get families to because parking is a bitch, and it was a big audience. With all the publicity surrounding it, why wouldn’t it be?
this facility does not have rubber swings attached to the ceiling, or sturdy enough Infrastructure to attach a pole for, you know, pole dancing, and bare bottom swing performances. I imagine all they’re doing is reading to children, kind of boring, but they probably pass out business cards inviting everyone to their “family friendly “ (NOT) shows.
The queens are making coin these days.
The queens are making coin these days.
You know I've always wondered what the purpose of Drag Queen Story Hour might be, but I think you may have it right. Libraries and suburban moms get to virtue signal on the public dime and Drag Queens get favorable advertising. Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner!
iris lilies
6-30-23, 12:48pm
You know I've always wondered what the purpose of Drag Queen Story Hour might be, but I think you may have it right. Libraries and suburban moms get to virtue signal on the public dime and Drag Queens get favorable advertising. Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner!
I honestly do not know if drag queens are being paid at the St. Louis public library. All that nonsense started after I retired. We had a tradition of dignitaries and celebrities like Cardinals baseball players presenting story hours, and they were, of course, volunteers. But if it’s billed as a program rather than a plain vanilla story hour, they may be paid because there’s a budget for that.
Regardless of whether they’re being paid at the library, I know that the huge popularity and media attention to drag queens performing for children has led to them forming companies and putting together things like Drag queen Brunch and Drag queen Bingo, all billed as “family friendly. “ That’s very common. They also give performances in public schools and I know they’re paid for that.
Being a drag queen you might work two or three nights out of the week for what, a hundred bucks? And free drinks. Unless you were a headliner, you weren’t paying rent with that money and probably even headliners in St. Louis weren’t paying their rent. But now they have day jobs as well, doubling their performing opportunities.
catherine
6-30-23, 12:49pm
You know I've always wondered what the purpose of Drag Queen Story Hour might be, but I think you may have it right. Libraries and suburban moms get to virtue signal on the public dime and Drag Queens get favorable advertising. Winner, Winner, Chicken Dinner!
I think that drag queens are probably far better performers/enteratiners than introverted writers blandly reading to hyper-sensitized children's brains and that may be all it is.
iris lilies
6-30-23, 1:09pm
I think that drag queens are probably far better performers/enteratiners than introverted writers blandly reading to hyper-sensitized children's brains and that may be all it is.
I’m curious to know why you think our youth librarians would have introverted persons blandly reading? You’ve got be a bit theatrical in that situation, drag queen or not.
One time I nearly had to give a story hour back 30 years ago when one of our youth librarians took sick, but fortunately someone came to my rescue. I can’t do that. The idea still horrifies me.
I’m curious to know why you think our youth librarians would have introverted persons blandly reading? You’ve got be a bit theatrical in that situation, drag queen or not.
One time I nearly had to give a story hour back 30 years ago when one of our youth librarians took sick, but fortunately someone came to my rescue. I can’t do that. The idea still horrifies me.
I steered way clear of story hour at my library; in fact, I steered clear of the children's section in general as much as possible. Drag queen story hour would be fine with me, but I still would have made myself scarce.
I absolutely fail to see the threat posed by drag queens--are they supposed to start kids on the slippery slope of accepting other people as human beings?
I’m curious to know why you think our youth librarians would have introverted persons blandly reading? You’ve got be a bit theatrical in that situation, drag queen or not.
One time I nearly had to give a story hour back 30 years ago when one of our youth librarians took sick, but fortunately someone came to my rescue. I can’t do that. The idea still horrifies me.
I love to read to my grandkids and I like to think they enjoy it--after all, I was a theatre major in college. But I do think that some drag queens may have a more festive and fun flair to their performances that may be appealing to youngsters. As a one-time actor whose cerebral approach to acting prevented me from attaining success, I suspect that a lot of librarians might have the same Achilles heel. I would LOVE to be a youth librarian, because I love books and I love kids, but I suspect my ability to draw families in is pretty dismal. OTOH if people who really know how to perform--no matter how they identify themselves--can bring kids into the library, I'm all for it, as long as they stay within the boundaries of propriety.
I am definitely going to check out the next drag queen show at our local library.
The days when a large collection of books was enough of a draw seem to be over. They need a gimmick to tear them away from the interactive freak show on their phones.
iris lilies
6-30-23, 2:46pm
I steered way clear of story hour at my library; in fact, I steered clear of the children's section in general as much as possible. Drag queen story hour would be fine with me, but I still would have made myself scarce.
I absolutely fail to see the threat posed by drag queens--are they supposed to start kids on the slippery slope of accepting other people as human beings?
You have refused, then, to look at the video footage provided many places, including here—by me—of deliberately sexualized shows for children.
The days when a large collection of books was enough of a draw seem to be over. They need a gimmick to tear them away from the interactive freak show on their phones.
I don't begrudge the entertainment. I begrudge the trend of the printed word being relegated to a 3x4 inch screen, and print communication being confined to tweets and captions on Instagram. Do I get upset when I see 3/4's of the real estate of a Barnes & Noble (what's left of them) being taken up by toys? Yes, but frankly, we might as well spend our time ruing the fate of Medieval illuminations because the era of classic print books won't likely persist much longer and there's nothing we can do about it except act like fogies and Luddites.
You have refused, then, to look at the video footage provided many places, including here—by me—of deliberately sexualized shows for children.
What library or other facility isn't establishing clear guidelines for performances? (Like "Don't show up in a thong. Your first twerk will be your last.") I'm skeptical that these aren't staged examples to activate pearl-clutching impulses, anyway.
iris lilies
7-1-23, 4:16pm
What library or other facility isn't establishing clear guidelines for performances? (Like "Don't show up in a thong. Your first twerk will be your last.") I'm skeptical that these aren't staged examples to activate pearl-clutching impulses, anyway.
You are right, I didn’t make my thoughts clear.
Certainly, the library where I worked for would not put up with tits and ass drag shows for children.
But I’m of the firm belief that when drag queens were anointed ss as the ambassadors of… Whatever they are selling…in story times for babies, that was one major societal barrier down. From that came the whole idea of “family friendly” drag shows. It is these shows where the tits and ass come out. Giant fat tits in some cases. Bare asses. Sexual innuendo, etc.
Did anyone else see Ron DeSantis's hate the gays campaign video? Aside from being incredibly creepy it was possibly the most homoerotic thing I've seen in the past month.
https://twitter.com/DeSantisWarRoom/status/1674899610379116546
iris lilies
7-2-23, 7:57pm
Did anyone else see Ron DeSantis's hate the gays campaign video? Aside from being incredibly creepy it was possibly the most homoerotic thing I've seen in the past month.
https://twitter.com/DeSantisWarRoom/status/1674899610379116546
I may surprise you by agreeing that it’s a dumb ad, and unnecessary.
Some wise gay folks are distancing themselves from the “T+” crowd of LGBTQ+ after observations that tolerance for LGBTQ plus folks as a whole has dropped since the “T+” crowd has commandeered the conversation.
Here, an original Stonewall activist and founder of gay Pride parades all over, gives his view after being attacked by trans activist in a recent Pride event.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0Lx7uRPsLRE
I agree the ad is unnecessary. It’s not like desantis has been unclear about the hate in his heart. But I suppose that ‘low information’ voters need to be reminded of that whether they agree with the hate or not.
It will be interesting to see how many LGBTQIA voters decide to throw trans folks under the bus out of fear for their own existence.
Some wise gay folks are distancing themselves from the “T+” crowd of LGBTQ+ ...
"T+"?
iris lilies
7-3-23, 9:50am
I agree the ad is unnecessary. It’s not like desantis has been unclear about the hate in his heart. But I suppose that ‘low information’ voters need to be reminded of that whether they agree with the hate or not.
It will be interesting to see how many LGBTQIA voters decide to throw trans folks under the bus out of fear for their own existence.
Nothing will happen in U.S. political races, but I expect gay folks who are involved in LGBT+ rights groups to be questioning and voting on issues of leadership and platforms within their own organizations. Non-profits that serve these folks and represent these issues will have some hard decisions to make.
Gay women have formed at least one group to combat what they see as erasure of woman’s concerns and leadership due to takeover by trans activists. Kathleen Stock who was cancelled by her University for perceived “trans hate” is one of the leaders.
Personally, I find Kathleen to show calm friendliness and logical reasoning when talking abput gender issue in the U.K. But of course I am just a hater.
The U.K. Is grappling with gender issues at a pointed level, for many reasons having to do with government overreach and them being, well, just a small island.
Gay women have formed at least one group to combat what they see as erasure of woman’s concerns and leadership due to takeover by trans activists. Kathleen Stock who was cancelled by her University for perceived “trans hate” is one of the leaders.
It's one of the oldest tricks in the oppression playbook. Get two (or more) marginalized groups of people to spend their time and effort fighting each other and they won't have the resources to fight their actual oppressors.
iris lilies
7-3-23, 4:45pm
It's one of the oldest tricks in the oppression playbook. Get two (or more) marginalized groups of people to spend their time and effort fighting each other and they won't have the resources to fight their actual oppressors.
This trivializes actual ideological conflicts. But carry-on making everything the fault of wascally Wepublicans.
yawn.
This trivializes actual ideological conflicts. But carry-on making everything the fault of wascally Wepublicans.
yawn.
And not pointing out the greater number of similarities trivializes those.
At this point since the republicans don’t actually have a meaningful policy platform beyond win at any cost the culture war strategy of divide and conquer is pretty much all they’ve got going for them.
And not pointing out the greater number of similarities trivializes those.
At this point since the republicans don’t actually have a meaningful policy platform beyond win at any cost the culture war strategy of divide and conquer is pretty much all they’ve got going for them.
The Humanist Report notes that Republicans' only party platform is hatred and cruelty, with reference to his recent homophobic campaign ad.
iris lilies
7-3-23, 10:28pm
And not pointing out the greater number of similarities trivializes those.
At this point since the republicans don’t actually have a meaningful policy platform beyond win at any cost the culture war strategy of divide and conquer is pretty much all they’ve got going for them.
In this specific arena they are reflecting a majority of Americans about 1) medicalized treatment for opposite sex ideating youth and 2) natal males on women sports teams. I guess that’s your “HATE? “Seems hyperbolic to me.
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3991685-majority-of-americans-oppose-gender-affirming-care-for-minors-trans-women-participating-in-sports-poll/
In this specific arena they are reflecting a majority of Americans about 1) medicalized treatment for opposite sex ideating youth and 2) natal males on women sports teams. I guess that’s your “HATE? “Seems hyperbolic to me.
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/3991685-majority-of-americans-oppose-gender-affirming-care-for-minors-trans-women-participating-in-sports-poll/
And apparently you are simply incapable of understanding what I was saying. I'm not surprised. You're a boring cis het old lady who hates the trans folks. Talk about yawn...
iris lilies
7-4-23, 10:46am
And apparently you are simply incapable of understanding what I was saying. I'm not surprised. You're a boring cis het old lady who hates the trans folks. Talk about yawn...
Awww, jp, as a boring old lady, I along with your 8th grade English teacher who presumably taught you rhetoric am disappointed in how quickly you descend to name calling in persuasive discourse.
We both think you can do better.
Also, the demographic populating this space is primarily old, cis, and hetero; not necessarily a bad thing. Shrug.
iris lilies
7-4-23, 5:46pm
Also, the demographic populating this space is primarily old, cis, and hetero; not necessarily a bad thing. Shrug.
I do see a real age divide on the issue of trans women trampling and invading women’s spaces and taking over women’s issues. Whether you think they are doing that or not, it is interesting that “ old dingbat lesbos” are the leading voices in the UK in speaking up about it. Younger folks are subject to cancellation.
I haven’t made up my mind about much of it,, but I DO see instances of young women being intimidated to accept and celebrate their husband’s transitions to women. Young gay girls being ridiculed as transphobes for not dating trans women. Young girls cowed by adult males stripping down in lockers and changing rooms.
us old bats are far less likely to put up with that bullshit.
Admittedly, I don't get out much (at all), but I don't know any transwomen, and I don't believe their numbers are such that they're wreaking havoc wholesale in society. I can't imagine that many women are accepting and celebrating a newly-gendered husband, either--though there was that author and her wife...At any rate, there are plenty of societal problems I can worry about, if I'm so inclined (Great Reset, anyone?) so I'll sit trans panic out.
early morning
7-5-23, 11:01am
Yeah, I agree with Jane, I think it's mostly a non-issue. As it happens I do know a family in which the husband is currently transitioning (after landing a job with decent insurance). The wife, who is cis, has been encouraging this change since the husband finally realized that she is indeed more female than male. Cis wife says she fell in love with the person, not the gender, and has every confidence that they will continue to be happy together. They have a daughter, who is of course also in counseling, and seems to be taking it in stride, she's known about her father's mis-gender much of her life. Both parents are very focused on her well being. I can only hope it all works out well for them! They are hardly a threat to world order.
And not pointing out the greater number of similarities trivializes those.
At this point since the republicans don’t actually have a meaningful policy platform beyond win at any cost the culture war strategy of divide and conquer is pretty much all they’ve got going for them.
Now that Bidens build back better plan for infrastructure and environment is on it’s way, I wonder what the dem platform will be, if anything. There will always be the tradition differences between progressive and conservative. I’ve not heard any discussion from anyone about climate change in spite of worsening weather extremes. Although Pence has referred to things as the “war against energy”.
Relatively speaking, LGBT issues seem far less significant, if not an invention of political theater.
The climate change issue will probably come to a head when the WHO/WEF led movers and shakers in our government try to substitute insects and lab-grown meat for the real thing in Americans' already pathogenic diet, as they are already moving to do in parts of Europe. Phase out fossil fuels, advance technology, modify and/or shut down factory farms--there are plenty of meaningful actions that can be taken instead. Meat is not, and has never been, the enemy.
"Climate change" is likely to be the Trojan Horse within which the WHO/WEF makes serious inroads into our lives, IMO.
Relatively speaking, LGBT issues seem far less significant, if not an invention of political theater.
Given the relatively small number of lgbt folks compared to the size of the total population that may well be true. But the Republican war on us seems to be bearing fruit, at least among republicans. In just one year republicans opinion about the moral acceptability of same sex relationships has dropped 15 points, from 56% last year to 41% this year. That terrifying change calls to mind the change in attitudes towards gay people during the Weimar Republic, during which LGBT people were considered relatively acceptable but after which gay Germans were rounded up and sent to concentration camps.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/gallup-poll-shows-gop-approval-of-same-sex-relationships-plummeted-in-2023?utm_source=pocket_saves
ApatheticNoMore
7-6-23, 7:32pm
Relatively speaking, LGBT issues seem far less significant, if not an invention of political theater.
Yea it's less significant than climate change. Climate change is going to kill billions worldwide, disruptions in agriculture, etc.
Yes, not to totally diminish LBGT issues, but I get the impression that it has become a major campaign platform, which is basically the anti woke platform of DeSantis. And the dems seem as lacking in more significant campaign issues as the GOP. A lot of this is due to media attention and strikes me as theater.
Gays were not the only non Jewish minority target of the WWII concentration camps. Just ask the Jehovah Witnesses.
Maybe someone should suggest to desantis that jehovas witnesses are as dreadful as us gay people. We would probably all benefit if he spread the hate around.
Don't forget the trade unionists, the disabled, Romany people...
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