Why Houston is more prone to flooding than ever

[flowerseverywhere]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/investigations/harvey-urban-planning/?utm_term=.edd365dafd66

it seems the fourth largest city in the US has no zoning laws. Large areas that used to serve as drainage areas are now buildings.
lack of regulation has certainly not helped this situation.

[Williamsmith]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/investigations/harvey-urban-planning/?utm_term=.edd365dafd66

it seems the fourth largest city in the US has no zoning laws. Large areas that used to serve as drainage areas are now buildings.
lack of regulation has certainly not helped this situation.

That is an honest assessment of the situation. I am concerned about my son restoring his home at a significant 5 digit cost only to have it destroyed by another event. How do you tell someone that they should be looking for new jobs in a different city because their home puts them at financial risk of ruin and worse than that takes resources away from their family members who need to support them in the recovery stage? I have resigned myself to the fact that I have in essence insured my kids by backing them with finances I have put away as a nest egg buffer for the later stages of my life. This is not investments that were easy to come by. It represents much hard work. But I will part with it gladly if only to make a temporary difference in their lives.

[Yppej]

I was glad to move out of coastal south Florida years ago. We used to have a forum member who moved from New Orleans to Austin permanently after Katrina. Is she still here?

[flowerseverywhere]

That is an honest assessment of the situation. I am concerned about my son restoring his home at a significant 5 digit cost only to have it destroyed by another event. How do you tell someone that they should be looking for new jobs in a different city because their home puts them at financial risk of ruin and worse than that takes resources away from their family members who need to support them in the recovery stage? I have resigned myself to the fact that I have in essence insured my kids by backing them with finances I have put away as a nest egg buffer for the later stages of my life. This is not investments that were easy to come by. It represents much hard work. But I will part with it gladly if only to make a temporary difference in their lives.

you had posted about your son previously and it seems like he is sensible. Giving your retirement savings would be a risky thing to do. I certainly would have calm conversations with him before I gave up my savings. Helping someone dig out of a temporary mess, for instance helping with some months rent and basic transportation is a good thing. Giving up your own future is much more dicey. Perhaps helping with limits. I have little trust that our governmental powers are going to 100% follow through with the promises of social security and Medicare that have been made so we all need to protect ourselves. Is his job even going to be there? That is one of the things I was wondering about. How many companies will just give up and leave.

We give cash in the grandkids 529's every Christmas and birthday but have told the parents that if at any time it becomes financially not feasible for us it will stop. They also put money in and several other family members have taken after our example. I think we are doing the right thing but it is with limits.

Right now I am sure you as well also your son are very emotional. To come close to death, losing everything you worked so hard for and having so much uncertainty must be incredibly difficult. I wish you all the best of luck.

[flowerseverywhere]

I was glad to move out of coastal south Florida years ago. We used to have a forum member who moved from New Orleans to Austin permanently after Katrina. Is she still here?

yet people are still building on the coast. The cost of flood insurance is very high there. As I said we are not in an official flood prone area, but looking at the flood maps there is an area about a mile from my house that is a designated flood zone so we have flood insurance.

We live about as far as far from the coast as Houston is. We have already decided that if a cat 4 or 5 heads our way we will leave in the RV and head north early on. Because if you don't leave early you easily can add to the problem. We don't have jobs so it is easy for us.

And by the way, make sure you have copies of all pertinent records somewhere. after Katrina many people who had to leave and their companies were closed could not get references for instance. Only having money in a local bank makes it difficult. Having some savings in one of the big banks gives you some history and access to cash. Starting over is very hard.

[dmc]

You can at least make sure he gets flood insurance. I live in coastal Florida so I have it. Unfortunately it limits out at $250,000, so it wouldn't even cover half the cost of rebuilding my home. So I would have to cover the rest or take the $250,000 and move.

i would be carefull with funds if it would put your future at risk. I would help some, but would expect them to borrow some of the money themselves.

[Chicken lady]

"home is the place where, when you have to go there, they have to take you in" - me with the Robert Frost again.

my parents lived in my grandparent's attic for a while when I was little. Mom was pregnant, dad got fired, they had to sell the house. My grandfather eventually hired him. My oldest boomeranged for four months after college (she hated every minute), her sister-in-law lived with her for six months. My aunt and uncle raised their grandson for 5 months when that was a third of his life, so that his mom could get her head together. When my other uncle got out of the hospital, his middle brother parked him with mom and dad and went down to see about making his house habitable again. When Dd's basement flooded 11", we loaned her a big fan and bought her a saw.

that's what we do in my family. We feed you, we shelter you, we help you get back up on your feet, and then we loan you our truck so you can go where you need to go.

i have paid first and last month's rent in an emergency after hearing the reasonable plan for continued stability. And we have helped out with tuition. What I would not do, wether it cost $5 or $50,000, is help one of my kids get into a situation where I felt they were setting themselves up to fail. (Well, OK, I would still loan them the truck)

[Tybee]

That is an honest assessment of the situation. I am concerned about my son restoring his home at a significant 5 digit cost only to have it destroyed by another event. How do you tell someone that they should be looking for new jobs in a different city because their home puts them at financial risk of ruin and worse than that takes resources away from their family members who need to support them in the recovery stage? I have resigned myself to the fact that I have in essence insured my kids by backing them with finances I have put away as a nest egg buffer for the later stages of my life. This is not investments that were easy to come by. It represents much hard work. But I will part with it gladly if only to make a temporary difference in their lives.

I would not insure my kids by backing them with finances I have put away as a nest egg buffer for the latter stages of my life. My kids are able bodied and young; I am not. I would be unable to earn that money back. or invest that money back.

As to making a temporary difference in their lives, I have thought about this with respect to my kids. If my dil were to lose her incredible job, I think they would probably lose their house. I have already decided if they came to me for money to prevent that from happening, I don't think I can say yes to that. I can offer them a temporary place to live with us until they get back on their feet. But they are adults and are making choices about lifestyle and jobs and where to live--I can't fund those choices, because I don't have enough money to do that without taking away my ability to take care of myself. And I am a lot older and feebler than they are.

They also have great examples in her parents--when they were young, they suffered a lot financially and lost their house due to medical bills (child born with life-threatening condition, and the medical bills ruined them, but temporarily.) They went on to recover very nicely by hard work and moving to a different part of the country. They have a very nice house now, raised three kids, put kids through college, and continued to pay massive medical bills for the youngest until he was 26.

Their setback, while enormous--their son needed a heart transplant--brought them closer as a family and, made them grow spiritually and psychologically. They handled it.

I think as parents we always have to be careful when offering help that we are not enabling a risky behavior.

So the question is, how do we really help?

[CathyA]

I think many of us, as Americans who have a pretty decent life, have a pretty hard time not getting what we want.......even if it's living where we want because of repeated flooding. Maybe if this kind of horrendous flooding keeps occurring, that will be the impetus to pick up stakes and move. I don't know. Man will always try to outwit nature........maybe have more pumps and more back-up pumps, and more back-up to the back-up pumps.......but I think the answer is leaving those areas alone that are natural drains and sponges. But man doesn't seem to have an interest in that.
I don't know what the answer is. Too many people wanting too many things...........

This planet was so perfectly balanced until.................

[Williamsmith]

I agree with many of your observations. Every situation has its own unique details. This one is still in its early stages and evolving. Are emotions a bad thing? Is the analytical approach the better one? Can we strike a balance?

I am strongly bonded to my son and him to me. We have both ventured too close to death. I feel I have lived a truly wonderful life, far in excess of what I have deserved and I am always prepared to use my resources to enhance the possibilities for him. Even at the cost of shortening mine. That is not an unnatural existence. This is how humankind has advanced.

He is an an incredibly hard working person, as is his wife. She actually went back to work yesterday. My son is going back today if he can find roads that are not flooded and a way to get there. They have not been back to their house yet. Can't get there. His doors are unlocked and he is worried about looting.

FEMA issued him $500 for clothing. We are grateful. He is hearing from other neighbors that their flood insurance may not cover the damage because they are in the wrong category of flood plain. Something about the difference between 100 and 500 year flood plains. I'm not understanding that one.

It doesn't matter for him but it is an issue going forward because he intends on getting it. I believe FEMA will offer a loan to get the necessary things done. Water abatement, demolition, restoration, appliance replacement, heating and air conditioning. I am going to chip in where he allows me. I will invest in him. He is more of the future than I am.

[catherine]

I am going to chip in where he allows me. I will invest in him. He is more of the future than I am.

I understand your feelings. Your son/DIL are lucky to have you.

[razz]

It is a heartbreaking scenario for all to go through.

On a very tiny scale - in the mid 80's, we had a huge storm go through and demolish about 10-12 properties on a popular Lake Erie shoreline. It was decided to forbid rebuilding so the land sits vacant and poorly tended. The owners have sold, inherited etc but it is a no-man's land that gets discussed at a municipal council meeting regularly without resolution. The owners want to rebuild and possibly dispose of their property at a profit saying that the one-time storm was a non-recurring fluke. The governing body says that the shoreline is regularly rearranged due to storms and another severe storm will recur and the municipality will be responsible for allowing the building.
Once lowlands are inappropriately developed it is a huge problem to undo.

[Tybee]

I understand your feelings. Your son/DIL are lucky to have you.

Of course they are! And please know that I get it, the wanting to help, the frantic desire to make things right for your children when they have suffered an enormous loss.

I came to the realization that I no longer had the means to make things right for my children. It does not mean I will not ever help them. I gave each of them a sum of money-- two used it as a downpayment for a house, and my desire to do this was prompted by my desire to give my grandchildren homes. I am helping the other son to invest the same amount so that some day, if he is in a position to do so, he can also buy a house.

I feel strongly that if I do for one,I need to be able to do for the others, so that the resources are evenly spread out. That s one issue for me.

I would also like to be able to help my grandchildren, as I feel responsibility for them,too.

Another issue for me is that I have disabilities that make it pretty impossible to find a new full time job, along with no pension, no healthcare -- I know that is different for you, williamsmith, and that is wonderful. But I do not have a pension of any kind, or any access to healthcare from former employer.

I love my children very much. I wonder sometimes if by giving them downpayments for the houses, I made a mistake--I think they both bought houses too quickly, and I wouldnot have borrowed the money they borrowed at that stage in my life. But I did it as you say, as an investment in their future.

But what they do with that future is up to them,and I can't solve problems for them anymore. Gosh, I wish I could. I would love to be able to give them everything.

But if I give them all I have saved, then how will I care for myself? Will I just be a burden on them?

I always think of the play King Lear. Lots of life lessons in that play.

[Williamsmith]

In some ways, wealth seems to get in the way of charity. Some of the most giving people I knew or now know were/are some of the least affluent. It's easy to cling to wealth as a life preserver but in reality we can withhold funds here and need them there...all unplanned more often than not. If you are well off enough to employ the services of a financial planner, I guess that's either the sign of a very diligent saver or a hard worker or one lucky sob. But earning that money seemed hard .....not as hard as deciding what to do with it though. And in end stages of life, all that meticulous planning seems to have gotten you to just the edge of the cliff where someon is waiting to use up the last dime and push you over. So, I guess I just would rather dole it out so that when I lie down at night I'm not hashing over who is going to get the benefit of what resource. That seems like the lazy man's way, I will fully admit. I'd rather do that than go to the casino, remodel the bathroom and kitchen a third time or go get that Cadillac SUV that parks itself, stops itself and warms your buttocks in the winter.

[Teacher Terry]

Between my DH and I we have 5 sons and have helped all of them some financially. WE would always let them live with us, etc as long as they were being responsible. That being said I will not sacrifice my standard of living to help them. I gave them help when younger and needed it like my parents did but not overboard. Now is my time to enjoy, take vacations, eat out, have new experiences.

[razz]

Tybee, each of us does what we can when we can in the manner as seems wisest to each of us.

Like you, I gave my kids freedom from expense in the post-secondary education within my budget; when I had more funds, I gave each a lump sum to invest; I made sure that the home that I purchased has a room for each family in case of serious need; now I take care that I live within my means and ensure that I am not a burden on either of them. To each their own path of wisdom....

[Tybee]

In some ways, wealth seems to get in the way of charity. Some of the most giving people I knew or now know were/are some of the least affluent. It's easy to cling to wealth as a life preserver but in reality we can withhold funds here and need them there...all unplanned more often than not. If you are well off enough to employ the services of a financial planner, I guess that's either the sign of a very diligent saver or a hard worker or one lucky sob. But earning that money seemed hard .....not as hard as deciding what to do with it though. And in end stages of life, all that meticulous planning seems to have gotten you to just the edge of the cliff where someon is waiting to use up the last dime and push you over. So, I guess I just would rather dole it out so that when I lie down at night I'm not hashing over who is going to get the benefit of what resource. That seems like the lazy man's way, I will fully admit. I'd rather do that than go to the casino, remodel the bathroom and kitchen a third time or go get that Cadillac SUV that parks itself, stops itself and warms your buttocks in the winter.

I can't relate to your examples here, but maybe that is because I don't have enough money to do the things you talk about here--casinos, bathroom remodels, self-parking Cadillacs--and I don't expect that I ever will. I don't see it as a dichotomy--money to waste vs. money to give one's kids. Right now we do not lives as full lives as my kids do, as we can't afford to do the things they do. They earn more than we do, have better health care, better houses, and better prospects. And I am glad for that! But I still want to give them things and give my grandchildren money for their futures.

I guess as Razz says it all depends on where you are in life, what path. I worry about making what I have last, and having enough to buy food and shelter and heat the rest of my life and my husband's life. I don't have enough to give them my savings because that money is earmarked to provide those things. We already don't do things like go to the doctor and buy medication because we can't afford it these days.

Maybe if America gets universal health care, we can all relax a little. I don't see it as doling out money, I see it as sharing resources when the needs are great.

And yes, it is all very personal, and depends on your family resources and your family dynamics.

I am very glad your son and his wife made it out okay. Thank God, and I hope FEMA comes through for them, and I hope their jobs will survive.

[Williamsmith]

I can't relate to your examples here, but maybe that is because I don't have enough money to do the things you talk about here--casinos, bathroom remodels, self-parking Cadillacs--and I don't expect that I ever will. I don't see it as a dichotomy--money to waste vs. money to give one's kids. Right now we do not lives as full lives as my kids do, as we can't afford to do the things they do. They earn more than we do, have better health care, better houses, and better prospects. And I am glad for that! But I still want to give them things and give my grandchildren money for their futures.

I guess as Razz says it all depends on where you are in life, what path. I worry about making what I have last, and having enough to buy food and shelter and heat the rest of my life and my husband's life. I don't have enough to give them my savings because that money is earmarked to provide those things. We already don't do things like go to the doctor and buy medication because we can't afford it these days.

Maybe if America gets universal health care, we can all relax a little. I don't see it as doling out money, I see it as sharing resources when the needs are great.

And yes, it is all very personal, and depends on your family resources and your family dynamics.

I am very glad your son and his wife made it out okay. Thank God, and I hope FEMA comes through for them, and I hope their jobs will survive.

To be clear, those things I mentioned are not reasonably within my budget. But I know people who were fortunate to have inherited sums of money, or did not raise three kids or were duel income no kids couples. They do. I just watched my neighbor remodel a perfectly good bathroom, tile the entire place and add crown molding throughout. They took a Viking River Cruise in Germany, Austria while it was being done. The neighbor on the other side inherited two commercial farms and the income generated from those. They just got sick of their 150k recreational vehicle and sold it because it was in storage 50 weeks out of the year.

His is not to bash well off people. Not at all. Perhaps some jealousy yes. I do not know what they do with their money otherwise and it may be that they are very philanthropic.


Which is to say also that I fully understand your situation as far as you have explained it and you owe no one reasons for it. I wish you could be afforded the comfort of reasonably priced healthcare. That would certainly go along way to counter the angst many feel about positioning oneself for retirement and a legacy.

No I use coupons, I buy on sale, I turn down my thermostat in the winter and use fans instead of air conditioning. I do my own taxes on a 1040EZ. Whatever you may hear about public servant pensions....mine is only redeeming in its healthcare.

My choice is...what is mine is my kids. I can trust them with that. I came from very little and I suppose that is what I will return to.

[flowerseverywhere]

To be clear, those things I mentioned are not reasonably within my budget. But I know people who were fortunate to have inherited sums of money, or did not raise three kids or were duel income no kids couples. They do. I just watched my neighbor remodel a perfectly good bathroom, tile the entire place and add crown molding throughout. They took a Viking River Cruise in Germany, Austria while it was being done. The neighbor on the other side inherited two commercial farms and the income generated from those. They just got sick of their 150k recreational vehicle and sold it because it was in storage 50 weeks out of the year.

His is not to bash well off people. Not at all. Perhaps some jealousy yes. I do not know what they do with their money otherwise and it may be that they are very philanthropic.


Which is to say also that I fully understand your situation as far as you have explained it and you owe no one reasons for it. I wish you could be afforded the comfort of reasonably priced healthcare. That would certainly go along way to counter the angst many feel about positioning oneself for retirement and a legacy.

No I use coupons, I buy on sale, I turn down my thermostat in the winter and use fans instead of air conditioning. I do my own taxes on a 1040EZ. Whatever you may hear about public servant pensions....mine is only redeeming in its healthcare.

My choice is...what is mine is my kids. I can trust them with that. I came from very little and I suppose that is what I will return to.
Interesting side story. We have some neighbors who bought their house when it was new. They liked the neighborhood and basic house. Before they moved in they replaced the never walked on carpets, and all the kitchen cabinets and countertops. Sometimes people do things I would not even think of. But it is their money.

I really hope hope the best for you and your son.

[Teacher Terry]

WS: maybe you and your wife should do some traveling, etc and other things that you would both enjoy while both still healthy. YOu gave your kids a good start and now they have some adult decisions to make. Everyone has financial setbacks and dealing with them makes people stronger.

[ToomuchStuff]

In some ways, wealth seems to get in the way of charity. Some of the most giving people I knew or now know were/are some of the least affluent. It's easy to cling to wealth as a life preserver but in reality we can withhold funds here and need them there...all unplanned more often than not. If you are well off enough to employ the services of a financial planner, I guess that's either the sign of a very diligent saver or a hard worker or one lucky sob. But earning that money seemed hard .....not as hard as deciding what to do with it though.

Certainly in some ways, I would agree. One friend of mine who gives away just shy of 6 figures, gets hit up by people constantly for money. That is one thing he was smart enough to get his agent to act as a road barrier for.
But another friend, I knew who he was for 20 years; only knew the last five of his life. He was Larry Stewart, and known as Kansas City's Secret Santa. (Williamsmith, PM me your address for a book about him) In an interview towards the end of his life, he talked about how giving away money was the most selfish thing one could actually do, because of the joy it gives. Quite honestly, I was always a bit jealous of the sleigh rides, because I had grown up and seen some of the things some of the riders (LEO's) deal with every day, and then I also got to know about some who have to worry about their safety, being able to go out.
What I have observed is the poor will give you the shirt off their back, and the next day when it is dirty, neither of you has a shirt. Those of means will open a shirt manufacturer, and give away a percentage of firsts, seconds, etc. so they can continue to generate shirts to help those in need.

I've grown up somewhere where I have seen/friends with both kinds. I fall in the former/poor catergory and must say that is almost entirely on me.

[flowerseverywhere]

In some ways, wealth seems to get in the way of charity. Some of the most giving people I knew or now know were/are some of the least affluent. It's easy to cling to wealth as a life preserver but in reality we can withhold funds here and need them there...all unplanned more often than not. If you are well off enough to employ the services of a financial planner, I guess that's either the sign of a very diligent saver or a hard worker or one lucky sob. But earning that money seemed hard .....not as hard as deciding what to do with it though. And in end stages of life, all that meticulous planning seems to have gotten you to just the edge of the cliff where someon is waiting to use up the last dime and push you over. So, I guess I just would rather dole it out so that when I lie down at night I'm not hashing over who is going to get the benefit of what resource. That seems like the lazy man's way, I will fully admit. I'd rather do that than go to the casino, remodel the bathroom and kitchen a third time or go get that Cadillac SUV that parks itself, stops itself and warms your buttocks in the winter.

i have met poor people who are extremely generous and rich people who are extremely generous. Judging people by what you perceive their generosity to be could be faulty. Many many people do things behind the scenes and quietly.

Yesterday i I had to go to Walmart to bring a neighbor for her prescriptions. As long as we were there, I picked some stuff up. At the register, the young woman asked if I would like to donate to the hurricane relief. I said no thank you. Little did she know that I have given blood every eight weeks with few lapses for the past 30 years at least, due again next week, donated to the Red Cross, and one of my friends has made contact with Relatives in Houston in one of the hard hit areas. to cut out the middleman to see what would be most helpful. They lost most of their possessions and are living with family members indefinitely until they can get back to their home or figure out what to do. A bunch of us are buying school supplies and collecting clean, sorted and sized children's clothes for her and her friends and as filling her wish list of what is most needed. one of my friends plans on bringing them up when she heads that way in two weeks for work. her car will be packed to the top with many items to help her and her friends in their recovery and it won't be like the nightmare of piles of clothes people drop off at shelters you see on the news someone has to sort through. As other people hear what we are doing they have joined in. We even have people going to the store and buying new clothes that she can give away if she cannot use them. And no one is giving junk or expired food, like I have seen in my years of charitable work. So at the register I may have looked stingy but that was not the true picture.

And on money net left over when you die, it is easy to see an attorney to have wills and papers written up so your money is used for exactly what your values are. It took a while for me to get used to that concept, however we have worked hard to save and I don't want my hard earned money to not be valued or fought over

[pinkytoe]

Everyone has financial setbacks and dealing with them makes people stronger.
When we were a young couple in our late 20s with a young child, we lost our jobs and house during the 80s economic decline. Looking back, experiencing that loss and having to struggle to get back on our feet was a key learning point for us. We learned to analyze any future actions (where to live and work, what to spend money on) with a much warier eye. The loss also propelled us into our simpler living journey.

[bae]

Our friends the French seem to think Houston flooded for other reasons...

http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/65/40/23/14025940/6/920x920.jpg

[JaneV2.0]

If only it worked that way...

[Williamsmith]

My son returned to his house. Four people from a local church showed up and helped demo all the wet drywall, flooring and molding. He has to hire a professional remediation team to dry the house out but the good news is the air conditioning unit still works, the electric still works, the toilets still work. Both cars are a stinking mess in the garage and a total loss. The refrigerator is questionable. The kitchen cabinetry is a wreck. I asked him how much cash he needs to get going. He said, "Well, nothing right now dad. We have (insert an astounding amount here) saved in an emergency fund." Man, that was nice to hear.

[razz]

Good news always is great to hear. Glad you shared it!

[CathyA]

Williamsmith.........glad to hear that your son is in pretty good shape. This must be such a relief for you, in so many ways.

[befree]

that church that helped your son work on his house is walking the walk! The stories coming out of Houston are inspiring, showing what great hearts people can have. The Charlie Hedbo cartoon shows...the opposite. I guess everybody makes their choice to the kind of person they want to be, day by day