View Full Version : Alcohol and meat
Last night i went to a BBQ with mindfulness teachers, yes i got out of the house and had fun. What was interesting was how fast certain topics came up. I am not sureif how, i just was saying that i run into students and families all the time so I don't do too many wild things. Someone was kinda joking that i must not drink, well i actually don't. Which switched him to talking about teaching kids at a Buddhist monastery and how his social drinking works cor him. I listened, and then it morphed into eating meat. I primarily don't eat meat but i am also not strict like i was for 16 years. Another thingto that does not affect me at all, i would love to talk about tasty food however.
I noted that although i wasn't bothered by whether he drank or not, ate meat or not, i was noting some irritation possible in me. Mostly that it is 2017, being veggie is not that weird, and in self proclaimed Buddhist circles not drinking is also not a big deal. I am getting to places where i feel an irritable reaction is brewing. I am quiet about these things, unlike the militant vegan i keep hearing about i just do my own thing. But please people, let it go. If you are conflicted about eating meat i am not your catholic confessor. I would also like to be over the long stare when people find out what is different about me. Hasn't happened in a long time but my new boss gave it when he was picking up breakfast burritos and i asked for no meat. He asked 2 more times about it.
Ahh had a great time however, really nice people and lots to choose from to eat. I wish i would have brought a cold salad of more of my own choice but I specifically signed up for potato salad. Have a lot of potato salad now, i would have loved quinoa and black bean salad. We do this 2 times a year so i will suggest a dish to bring next time
That seems weird that it would be an issue in Buddhist circles, especially. My sister is a vegetarian and we are respectful of this and go out of our way to make sure we are choosing a place with decent vegetarian options when we go to a restaurant.
I will say that at least as far as my sister is concerned, I think she has a less healthy diet than me because all the lean proteins like fish are off the table for her. She is what I would call a "Mac & Cheese" vegetarian, but to each her own.
That seems weird that it would be an issue in Buddhist circles, especially.
That's exactly what I was thinking! Don't buddhists as a rule abstain from meat and alcohol??
When I was more like 100% lacto-ovo vegetarian, I also never proselytized but often got that mild annoyance when I got that look, so I know how you feel. Very few people can imagine a world without meat-eating, although there are vast swaths of vegetarian populations (South India, 7th Day Adventists, etc.) who are obviously surviving. I get annoyed when I choose a big salad with a ton of non-animal proteins (eggs, legumes, nuts etc.), and people will look at me with concern and ask, "Don't you want protein on that?"
We've battered this topic a million times over on these forums, so I'm not looking to make the case that *most* people can live fine without animal protein and that we get lots of protein from other sources yet again. But I just want to say, I hear ya. It is annoying.
But please people, let it go. If you are conflicted about eating meat i am not your catholic confessor.
Maybe work on a different response if someone brings up the topic, and you are uncomfortable talking about it? Since you can't control what other people say or do, all that is left is to control your own reaction. That's where letting it go can come in--you let go of any ego around the interaction--who cares what they think of you, if you are not interested in what they are saying and reject what they are saying.
I'm thinking this through from an AlAnon standpoint--two quotes come to mind--one is
I don't have to go to every fight I am invited to
and
secondis JADE--you don't have to
Justify
Argue
Defend
Explain
youractions.
Ultimately, you choose your reaction, the hostility, the"Catholic confessor" remark. Would you have said "I am not your Muslim Imam"? Maybe you would have, who knows?
But these may be good questions to ask yourself. You are at some level choosing the hostility.
Maybe the Great Spirit is sending you lots of little learning experiences to learn to let go of caring what other people think of your choices?
There is some lack of inner confidence.
Affirmations are good. I am good. My choices are good for me. They are not hurting anyone else. They make me more interesting. I can ignore or educate if I want to. I have my good reasons for doing what I do and being what I want to be.
I am hearing "Others don't get me or my choices. Others look at me funny or question my choices."
Sort of like our choice to not have kids. I have faced all kinds of responses and my standard reply is to smile and say I am happy about my choices period. There is no need to explain why or why not unless I really like the person and want more of a connection. My choice. And some can be really bothersome when you dont immediately agree with them that their choice of having kids is the right one.
In the long run, any conversation starter can be a good thing. Gives you a chance to smile at someone and talk about whatever they bring up. It can lead to other things.
ps: I always bring what I want to eat to a potluck because I can be somewhat picky. I bring a great green salad or a pasta salad that I love. Husband brings warm macncheese because he loves it. I would generally not allow anyone to dictate what I was bringing or sign up for something I would not be happy bringing home and eating. Did you choose potato salad and change your mind? Why not bring the black bean salad? Seems either would be fine as a side choice and healthy. Is this group somehow more dictatorial? Waht would have happened if you just brought your favorite salad because you forgot to buy potatoes?
Forgot to add that we have experienced the same thing for over 30 years because hubby does not eat 4 legged animals. In France, we even had a card made out for the waiter. Uggg. We use the phrase 4 legged because then we don't have to explain that pork or lamb is meat which is a question we have gotten fairly often. Sometimes people are just ignorant.
My husband was bit by a tick and developed an allergy to all meat. It is actually called a mammalian protein allergy. That's the phrase we use, although no one has tried to feed him whale meat yet. . .
I am hearing "Others don't get me or my choices. Others look at me funny or question my choices."
I have noticed over the years that the punk kid you say you were is often in conflict with wanting to be part of a group. You pick something that is anti-whatever culture you are currently part of, then wonder why everyone doesn't make the same choices as you, or feel somehow singled out if someone questions your choice. You want to bring different things to your teaching, then wonder why everyone isn't on board with your ideas or why your supervisor puts so much emphasis on paperwork and following the rules/dates/budget when you are focused on improving the quality of your content (I'm assuming in your mind you see content as more important as I would, but not everyone thinks that way). You choose different spirituality and eating and wonder why everyone isn't on board. I think bringing your ideas is a wonderful thing, don't get me wrong, the world needs you and what you bring, but the downside of being or saying different, is that not everyone is going to be happy with that. Just how it is. This is where your Buddhism can help in learning to be less attached to any outcomes, one outcome of which is being warmly welcomed by people who are different from you.
Sad Eyed Lady
9-4-17, 9:38am
My husband was bit by a tick and developed an allergy to all meat. It is actually called a mammalian protein allergy. That's the phrase we use, although no one has tried to feed him whale meat yet. . .
Me too. I haven't eaten beef or pork for probably 15 years, but since I was never much of a "meat eater" I haven't missed it. When ordering a meal or choosing something to eat I find it is easier to say "I don't eat meat" than to explain about the tick thing. Sometimes I have a person ask me if I am vegetarian, but it has always been with interest and politeness. If asked then I do just say "I have allergies to beef and pork". No problems. Fast food places don't even blink an eye when I order a cheeseburger with no meat. I had no idea that anyone was judgmental about that kind of thing anymore, and I live in rural Kentucky with not a Buddhist in sight!
When I come across these situations and have to wrestle my emotions, I have finally come up with a solution that works for me.
In arithmetic, 2+2=4, that is indisputable and I know it and use it with confidence. 2+2=5 is not and I know it has no truth or value in any way.
When I encounter a situation in which I find I am uncomfortable for whatever reason, I ask myself if what has been said or done is indisputably true, then I respond. If what has been said or done is not indisputably true, I stop myself from responding and think carefully before I do. I often simply turn the question back to the initiator. Why do you think that or what could have been done instead, Etc?
When I encounter a situation in which I find I am uncomfortable for whatever reason, I ask myself if what has been said or done is indisputably true, then I respond. If what has been said or done is not indisputably true, I stop myself from responding and think carefully before I do. I often simply turn the question back to the initiator. Why do you think that or what could have been done instead, Etc?
I love that, razz!
I've been "different enough" my entire life that I'm used to not being part of the mainstream -- in fact, when I am I kind of re-examine lol. But you provided a great explanation of how to hold and approach it maturely. Thank you.
I want to say that this was irritation level, not necessarily a big problem. I was really watching my own reaction and feelings throughout the process, even physical sensations, which is a practice I do with my Buddhist teachers a lot. Of course tone is always hard to express on-line, but it was mostly curiosity. I had a good time and felt really comfortable, just interesting in this context to have different views when you expect same-ness. I can see this when other people have discomfort with me because they expect same-ness based on how I look or my age, gender, race and yet there is difference. It is something I rather delight in, not in a way of making people terribly uncomfortable but pushing ourselves to look at a wider range of possibilities, and then come back to where we have some inherent same-ness that is not dependent on what we eat or our religion.
On the conflict of being a rebel and being accepted, well doesn't everyone want to be accepted a little? I know when I try too hard to conform it doesn't work out well, however I have been working over the last few years at realizing I need people, gasp, and I am capable of being with people, and we are all going to irritate the crap out of each other at times. And also working on how to have a voice that is clear and appropriate? In the workplace I often think I can say more than I do, but then I try and realized that it just isn't the place. I love deep conversations, not always many good places for it. I am spending more time on my talks for our local buddhist group and for the online phone call. I was actually talking about community and how we mirror each other based on some conversations we had in our group. One man was very surprised that when he visited family it was a big deal that he no longer fished (Buddhist precept reason). He didn't see it as a big deal but it became a huge issue.
As a small note, I said Catholic confessor because this man in particular was referencing his Catholic childhood a lot. It made sense in the context of talking to him.
I want to say that this was irritation level, not necessarily a big problem. I was really watching my own reaction and feelings throughout the process, even physical sensations, which is a practice I do with my Buddhist teachers a lot. Of course tone is always hard to express on-line, but it was mostly curiosity. I had a good time and felt really comfortable, just interesting in this context to have different views when you expect same-ness. I can see this when other people have discomfort with me because they expect same-ness based on how I look or my age, gender, race and yet there is difference. It is something I rather delight in, not in a way of making people terribly uncomfortable but pushing ourselves to look at a wider range of possibilities, and then come back to where we have some inherent same-ness that is not dependent on what we eat or our religion.
On the conflict of being a rebel and being accepted, well doesn't everyone want to be accepted a little? I know when I try too hard to conform it doesn't work out well, however I have been working over the last few years at realizing I need people, gasp, and I am capable of being with people, and we are all going to irritate the crap out of each other at times. And also working on how to have a voice that is clear and appropriate? In the workplace I often think I can say more than I do, but then I try and realized that it just isn't the place. I love deep conversations, not always many good places for it. I am spending more time on my talks for our local buddhist group and for the online phone call. I was actually talking about community and how we mirror each other based on some conversations we had in our group. One man was very surprised that when he visited family it was a big deal that he no longer fished (Buddhist precept reason). He didn't see it as a big deal but it became a huge issue.
As a small note, I said Catholic confessor because this man in particular was referencing his Catholic childhood a lot. It made sense in the context of talking to him.
Ah, that does make more sense!
I'm either lucky in my friends and acquaintances, or intimidating as hell, because no one has batted an eye at my lack of religion, my choice not to marry or procreate, my vegetarianism (now a distant memory), or any other deviation from the norm i might pursue. Of course, If we're well-developed individuals, it is to be expected we will have our differences.
I want to say that this was irritation level, not necessarily a big problem. I was really watching my own reaction and feelings throughout the process, even physical sensations, which is a practice I do with my Buddhist teachers a lot.
Yes. Mindfulness in action. Good for you.
iris lilies
9-4-17, 11:58am
I'm either lucky in my friends and acquaintances, or intimidating as hell, because no one has batted an eye at my lack of religion, my choice not to marry or procreate, my vegetarianism (now a distant memory), or any other deviation from the norm i might pursue. Of course, If we're well-developed individuals, it is to be expected we will have our differences.
For me it is a fortunate thing that my social armor is an ability to not notice when others have simple reactions to whatever I say or do. That probably wins me friends as well as looses me friends.
It is "fortunate" because I maintain an eqilibrium.
For me it is a fortunate thing that my social armor is an ability to not notice when others have simple reactions to whatever I say or do. That probably wins me friends as well as looses me friends.
It is "fortunate" because I maintain an eqilibrium.
Maybe that's it--I'm oblivious! :D
Teacher Terry
9-4-17, 12:36pm
I actually could care less about people's food preferences, religion, etc. If someone is coming to my house for dinner and they don't eat meat I make my homemade spaghetti and take out their sauce before I add the meat. I actually prefer to add the meat earlier so the sauce has more flavor from it but I will happily accommodate someone. It is no big deal. I have a single male friend that I have over for dinner about once/week. He has decided to not eat gluten which makes things more complicated. He is also fussy about what veggies he eats due to some previous issues with his gall bladder. Before I used to make the whole meal but now I just cook plain meat and he brings his own veggies and side. It works well. Because he does not have people over to his house occasionally he will buy an entire meal at the deli and bring to our house as his treat. Being flexible helps.
I love that Terry, I have definitely brought a lot of food over the years, and worked very hard to find or create recipes that cross the culinary divide. Something healthy and veggie that is also likely to be liked by everyone. A lot of food actually is veggie. I do have to really think when I have someone who is gluten free, and a lot of times when I cook for a retreat we need to adjust to gluten issues. I think what makes me sad sometimes is that when I am not around people who are flexible and understanding then the joy of sharing food is really impacted. I saw my sister for coffee last weekend and she was talking food, what she was buying and making. She made the comment that she is just like mom in talking about food and cooking all the time. I replied that I really am too, I just don't have as many people to talk to about it. It seems when I talk about my food it is different around them. However with my son (who is a meat and seafood assistant manager) we can flow back and forth often. We both wanted to try to make this jack fruit based 'pulled pork', and then found out how expensive a jack fruit is. Too much for an experiment. Meanwhile I will just cultivate more people who I can share the joy of food with, that just happens to not include meat.
What I will say about noticing little things, having very high sensitivity and generally a broader range of emotional states, well that is something about me that is not in the 'get over it' category. It is not always comfortable for me, but I also think it is very important and rare in this world. No one complains when I am the supportive listener, or when I am calm and competent in a crisis, or when I give a dharma talk that hits them right in the spot.
Teacher Terry
9-4-17, 3:01pm
ZG, we love to have people over and sometimes I make the whole meal and sometimes it is more of a potluck. I had a friend that and a Vegan and she loved a restaurant that was not very good but we would go because it was about the friendship. She also was open to eating at other places if there was something she thought would work. I certainly am not going to ruin any relationships over food. My oldest son ate meat until he had his first serious GF when he was 21 and she was a Vegan so he became one. They lived together for 7 years. aFter they broke up he stayed one. Then he met his wife who is from Poland and they love their meat. They will eat meat and cheese sandwiches for breakfast. She is a great cook and it was not long before he was a meat eater again. It goes long with my theory that men are very easily influenced by the woman in their lives.
Or....
whoever prepares the meal calls the shots:devil:
It goes long with my theory that men are very easily influenced by the woman in their lives.
Teacher Terry
9-4-17, 3:30pm
Good one Razz!
Or....
whoever prepares the meal calls the shots:devil:
I think that's true! Since I took over the cooking at our house the following conversation takes place almost daily:
Me: What would you like for dinner?
She: Whatever you're cooking!
Tonight it's smoked pork tenderloin with scalloped potatoes and a green or yellow vegetable to be named later. It's not too late for her to express an opinion.
My husband was bit by a tick and developed an allergy to all meat. It is actually called a mammalian protein allergy. That's the phrase we use, although no one has tried to feed him whale meat yet. . .
There was a podcast I listened to a while ck (radiolab I think) where they had on a very funny woman who had LOVED a good steak but had gotten bitten by a tick and came down with this disease. Worth looking for to hear an honest perspective on how much trauma it caused, but delivered in a very humorous way.
And you gave me a good laugh with your comment about whale meat. Thank you!
Alan I agree, my ex was vegetarian for something like 9 years, and then when we changed he declared it was a stupid thing to do. For the first year or so I told him he was welcome to cook anything he wanted to go along with what I cooked. However I was not experienced in cooking meat so I did not feel comfortable and having it turn out terrible or worse like food poisoning.
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