View Full Version : Introversion or something else?
My 30 yo nephew is staying with us for 3 months. He's here to look for a job and possibly relocate. He stays in his room all the time. He only comes out to eat or use the bathroom. The rest of the time he's in the room with the door, window and curtains closed.
Is this severe introversion? Normal introversion? Something else entirely? Please help me out. I don't know how much I should push him to leave the house. I know job hunting is done online now, but this seems excessive. From all accounts, including his own, this is what he does at home too; he lives with his parents.
He's 30 yrs old, so I don't feel responsible for him. He's a grown man. Just not sure if I should mind my own business or try to get him out more. And if I should bring up the subject of depression. When he does come out of his room he seems fine, and he says he is happiest in his room, but could there be depression behind it? I'm not sure what to do, ignore the whole thing and let him do what he wants, or try to help him.
This is dh's nephew and neither of us knows him well. Only met him a few times when he was younger so we don't have a close relationship with him where we would feel comfortable bringing up things like mental illness. But since we're the elders, it seems that we might need to do so even if it's uncomfortable.
I'm a moderate extrovert and dh is a moderate introvert. Since there are many introverts here, I thought you guys might have some good insight as to whether this is simply an issue of personal preference or something else that might need addressing.
Thanks.
If he is not discussing things with you about the job hunt, are you talking and socializing otherwise? You agreed to be a home for the job search, not a cave to hide in. Were you able to have the discussion about parameters that should be adhered to to maintain harmony from both points of view? How well do you know the family? I cannot remember the info that you shared.
Sorry, it sounds weird to me. I like my privacy but courtesy when in another's home requires some socialization to connect especially when the home is offered in support. Age is irrelevant,IMO, as I would expect this equally of a teen or a senior.
ToomuchStuff
9-5-17, 1:11pm
Welcome to the millennials. Their social lives seem to run around people on their phones, which they set down when they meet up with someone from Grinder/Tinder.>8)
Until he finds a job, is it worth it to try to make friends/roots when you don't know if your going to stay there?
Miss Cellane
9-5-17, 1:16pm
Most introverts interact with other people on a day-to-day basis, speaking as a pretty strong introvert. Sure, I do really enjoy the rare day when I can stay home and not even have to talk to anyone all day long--but that's not a typical day.
My gut feeling is that there might be some depression behind his hiding in his room, but he would need to see a mental health professional to get a real diagnosis. Because he could just be addicted to playing video games.
Does he talk to you at all when he is out of the room? Does he eat meals with you and carry on a normal conversation then?
Has he shown any signs of job hunting? Any interviews? Does he go out by himself ever?
Do both of you have a plan for what happens if three months are up and he doesn't have a job? That's something to talk about.
I also think that if you are giving him free room and board and internet and TV and heat and hot water, that it is fair to expect him to help around the house a bit--mowing the lawn, washing the kitchen floor, vacuuming, taking out the trash, running quick errands. If nothing else, a few chores will get him out of his room a little bit.
Well, your experience is similar to mine/DH's. As you know BIL is selling his house next door to us, and for some inexplicable reason, as soon as the for sale sign went up, he moved in with us. That was fine with us, although we couldn't figure out why he wouldn't wait until his house actually sold before moving in.
The weird thing is, he did just what your nephew is doing. He holed himself in the room and we never saw him. Our situation is even stranger than yours because we have spent our whole lives with him. DH is his brother, for Pete's sake. We've been relatives, next-door neighbors, vacation buddies, Hurricane Sandy buddies, you name it.. We have two spare bedrooms, and I offered him not only the big one that he was in, but also the smaller one that has a TV in it. I told him that could be his "suite"--to feel free to use both rooms, if he didn't want to watch TV with us. He never even did that. I felt like I had posted "room for rent" on Craigslist and got a total stranger living with me, not my BIL.
He's 55, and he isn't even that introverted.
So don't feel bad. Some people just either don't want to intrude, or don't want to be intruded upon, or "just want to be alone."
Chicken lady
9-5-17, 1:49pm
Ask his parents if that's normal for him.
as a severe introvert, I disagree that someone has an obligation to socialize with you if you give them a place to stay. I would be delighted with a houseguest who kept to themself, didn't make a mess, and let me know that everything was fine for them that way (otherwise I would probably feel guilty because I liked having them closed up in their room)
ds did bring a "friend" home from college one fall break who came to meals, ate without talking or carrying his plate, and hid in ds's room. He did not leave the house when ds went out with his friends, which made us uncomfortable, and he stayed up really late (until about 3 a.m.) the first night face timing with his family in China, which involved yelling and howling with laughter and slapping our wall. The second night we turned the Internet off at 10:00, after we had gone up to our room - where the connection was - and closed the door.
it turns out he wasn't so much a friend as a guy who ds had met and felt sorry for because he had nowhere to go. We told ds that if he brought home any more random homeless people, he was responsible for them 24/7.
My initial reaction was that "this is what many millennials do".
But Miss Cellane raises some good points -- does the guy seem "normal" or at least polite on a daily basis? If he never leaves the house to go on job interviews, to movies/social events/etc., or to exercise, there may be some depression. However, I agree that you don't have the relationship with him to discuss it. That's where talking with his parents would come in, as a check to see if this is relatively normal behavior and as a heads-up to them if it is not.
gimmethesimplelife
9-5-17, 2:24pm
Hi Geila!
First let me say that I am not young and I don't know the young man involved - I am going here by what I have observed in young men and what I have read online about young men. This is not completely from personal experience is my point. That said, from what I understand this behavior is not completely uncommon in young men - there is a movement of young men who have given up on women (and no, this doesn't mean they are gay for anyone snickering) and do the rock bottom minimum they have to do to survive and are not interested in dating or appearing attractive to the opposite sex or engaging in behaviors overall that society would expect of young men of that age. They are not into the idea of ever getting married or being fathers or climbing a career ladder and more or less, accept a lot in life of being on their own and living for themselves and winning noone's approval save their own. This young man could be one of these - but then again, I don't know him and can't say. MGTOW is what such young men go by - it means Men Going Their Own Way. Then again, I could just as easily be totally off on this one, I'm just bringing it up and running it by you. Rob
Welcome to the millennials
My thought too. I have noticed that many of the young men where we just moved to seem unmotivated and not very personable. Into gaming, spending hours online, smoking pot and avoiding interaction with real people.
Thanks for the replies. I'll provide some more info and answer some of the items brought up in the responses.
This is normal behavior for him. This is what he does at home and has done for many years. His parents have accepted it. I don't know if they are bothered by it or not, I'm afraid they might feel offended if I ask them about it. We're not close and they are older than us so they might take it as a criticism.
He is very lazy and spoiled. Both here and at home. He doesn't even help his parents with mowing lawn or other chores even though they both have health issues. I asked him to do a few chores that I felt would help him feel at home and provide an opportunity to go out and be in the neighborhood a bit. He said ok and then choose not to do any of it and never mentioned it again. Since I don't want to be a nagging mother figure, I let it go and took it as information. We were thinking of letting him stay with us for a year or two if he got a job here. That's no longer going to be offered.
He does not go out and do any activities on his own. I gave him the info of a local car rental so he could get around and he said he does not want to rent a car. He will only go places if someone is taking him. I was surprised by this as this area is a very popular tourist destination.
He has not gone on any job interviews. He does not discuss his job hunting. He responds to attempts at conversation with yes/no answers, very much like a moody teenager. He is polite but uninterested in any sort of engagement. He often doesn't say anything all day.
I've let him know that he is now responsible for procuring his own food. I took him shopping last week and paid for all his groceries. He has thrown out about half of the food by letting it go bad or deciding he didn't want it after all. He will have to leave the house to buy food. We have several grocery stores a couple of blocks away. He seemed pained at the idea of walking there. I've also let him know that he is responsible for cleaning his own bathroom.
I'm really glad I decided not to cook for him or drive him around and that I communicated it upfront.
I think some of the behavior is due to lack of drive because everything has always been provided for him. Mom cooks and cleans for him, Dad provides free housing, food and even bought him a car. But the staying in the room all the time is a new one to me. I can't imagine traveling across the country to one of the best places to visit and then sitting in a closed room each and every day.
My thought too. I have noticed that many of the young men where we just moved to seem unmotivated and not very personable. Into gaming, spending hours online, smoking pot and avoiding interaction with real people.
Why would these young men be this way?
Thanks for the replies. I'll provide some more info and answer some of the items brought up in the responses.
This is normal behavior for him. This is what he does at home and has done for many years. His parents have accepted it. I don't know if they are bothered by it or not, I'm afraid they might feel offended if I ask them about it. We're not close and they are older than us so they might take it as a criticism.
He is very lazy and spoiled. Both here and at home. He doesn't even help his parents with mowing lawn or other chores even though they both have health issues. I asked him to do a few chores that I felt would help him feel at home and provide an opportunity to go out and be in the neighborhood a bit. He said ok and then choose not to do any of it and never mentioned it again. Since I don't want to be a nagging mother figure, I let it go and took it as information. We were thinking of letting him stay with us for a year or two if he got a job here. That's no longer going to be offered.
He does not go out and do any activities on his own. I gave him the info of a local car rental so he could get around and he said he does not want to rent a car. He will only go places if someone is taking him. I was surprised by this as this area is a very popular tourist destination.
He has not gone on any job interviews. He does not discuss his job hunting. He responds to attempts at conversation with yes/no answers, very much like a moody teenager. He is polite but uninterested in any sort of engagement. He often doesn't say anything all day.
I've let him know that he is now responsible for procuring his own food. I took him shopping last week and paid for all his groceries. He has thrown out about half of the food by letting it go bad or deciding he didn't want it after all. He will have to leave the house to buy food. We have several grocery stores a couple of blocks away. He seemed pained at the idea of walking there. I've also let him know that he is responsible for cleaning his own bathroom.
I'm really glad I decided not to cook for him or drive him around and that I communicated it upfront.
I think some of the behavior is due to lack of drive because everything has always been provided for him. Mom cooks and cleans for him, Dad provides free housing, food and even bought him a car. But the staying in the room all the time is a new one to me. I can't imagine traveling across the country to one of the best places to visit and then sitting in a closed room each and every day.
Toss him out on his ass.
Hi Geila!
First let me say that I am not young and I don't know the young man involved - I am going here by what I have observed in young men and what I have read online about young men. This is not completely from personal experience is my point. That said, from what I understand this behavior is not completely uncommon in young men - there is a movement of young men who have given up on women (and no, this doesn't mean they are gay for anyone snickering) and do the rock bottom minimum they have to do to survive and are not interested in dating or appearing attractive to the opposite sex or engaging in behaviors overall that society would expect of young men of that age. They are not into the idea of ever getting married or being fathers or climbing a career ladder and more or less, accept a lot in life of being on their own and living for themselves and winning noone's approval save their own. This young man could be one of these - but then again, I don't know him and can't say. MGTOW is what such young men go by - it means Men Going Their Own Way. Then again, I could just as easily be totally off on this one, I'm just bringing it up and running it by you. Rob
Why would these men go MGTOW?
I've wondered about the Millenial thing too. But I know many others in the same age range that lead normal lives. Sure, they are addicted to their phones and spend much more time on social media. But travel and experiences is also a big thing for them and that doesn't seem to even register for him.
Rob - your description of men going their own way was interesting. He does not appear to have much drive or ambition, but he is very much a consumer of technology and designer clothes. It's a bit odd. Why buy fancy clothes if you're just sitting in your room?
Catherine - that's interesting about your BIL. You mentioned that he always lived with his mother. Do you know if he has any mental or developmental health issues? My nephew seems 'normal' in his social interactions and grasp of daily life but he seems to not be interested in exerting any effort in becoming independent and self-sufficient.
Toss him out on his ass.
Haha! :)
If it was my own nephew from my side of the family (vs. Dh's) I would put up with none of it. But dh's family culture is different. Dh's brother (nephew's dad) would be very hurt if we were to reject his son. And dh's brother is a very sweet and kind man, so we wont do that to him. However, we have been letting nephew know that his staying here is a temporary thing. I would like to have the visit be done by Thanksgiving. If he does get a job here, I plan on letting him know that he has to find his own place asap.
Sounds as though the boundary on time needs to be set yesterday and reinforced every day. The passive-aggressive approach has enabled him so far and he will expect it to continue. Make it clear to family that there is a time limit sooner than later as well. Lat minute info will cause discomfort.
Are you and your DH on the same page with this three month limit? Will he feel compelled otherwise?
Sounds as though the boundary on time needs to be set yesterday and reinforced every day. The passive-aggressive approach has enabled him so far and he will expect it to continue. Make it clear to family that there is a time limit sooner than later as well. Lat minute info will cause discomfort.
Are you and your DH on the same page with this three month limit? Will he feel compelled otherwise?
This is an excellent point. We've been alluding to it and dropping hints but have not come out and directly stated the time boundary. Dh is on board with the time limit but will have a hard time enforcing it. I might have to be the bad cop on this one, and I'm okay with that.
Our plan is that if he does not have a job, he needs to return home by Thanksgiving (me) or end of the year (dh). I don't think anyone is going to be hiring between Thanksgiving and New Year's. But dh thinks it might feel rude to be so strict. So he would feel better with a year end deadline. If he does get a job, we might need to let him stay with us an extra 2 months while he saves up for deposit and rent as housing here is very expensive.
I will talk to dh tonight about having the conversation about time limit with nephew now rather than later.
Chicken lady
9-5-17, 7:25pm
Invite your bil to thanksgiving dinner since he will be coming to pick up his son.
Invite your bil to thanksgiving dinner since he will be coming to pick up his son.
I like that, Chicken lady! :)
Our plan is that if he does not have a job, he needs to return home by Thanksgiving (me) or end of the year (dh). I don't think anyone is going to be hiring between Thanksgiving and New Year's. But dh thinks it might feel rude to be so strict. So he would feel better with a year end deadline. If he does get a job, we might need to let him stay with us an extra 2 months while he saves up for deposit and rent as housing here is very expensive.
In DH's defense, I've seen several companies which interview for positions which will be funded in their new fiscal year (January). That easily could happen in the first couple of weeks of December. After that, though, the logistics of holiday events, people taking time off (at my day job we had to use our vacation by year end or lose it), and year-end activities (closing the books, etc.), pretty much do in any serious job-hunting efforts. My sense, though, is that it won't make a practical difference if Nephew is simply enjoying (?) a three-month-long vacation.
As for letting Nephew stay with you once/if he gets a job, I would stop entertaining that thought. If he needs a grubstake, his parents should be providing it, not you and DH. This young man sounds like he's going to have a crashing introduction into Real Life. And when he loses the new job because he can't be arsed to show up on time or do anything useful while he's there, where will he end up? There's no reason you need to be there to help clean up any more than you have. You've done your bit.
Catherine - that's interesting about your BIL. You mentioned that he always lived with his mother. Do you know if he has any mental or developmental health issues? My nephew seems 'normal' in his social interactions and grasp of daily life but he seems to not be interested in exerting any effort in becoming independent and self-sufficient.
I am not sure if his "developmental issues" are a product of nature or nurture. His mother certainly enabled his Peter Pan existence. But even she said that while he's perfectly normal in so many respects, there's just something "off." He's very funny and can carry a conversation, but sometimes he just makes little sense. He'll go off on tangents or indulge on these projected scenarios that are not guaranteed to happen at all, creating a LOT of anxiety for him. He'll construct entire scenes in his head, with full-blown dialogue of what he "knows" is going to happen (usually a negative outcome). I'll challenge him and say, "How do you KNOW that? That's only ONE thing that might happen." It's very aggravating, and it definitely keeps him stuck in life, because he always bets on things happening for the worst.
But right now I'm aggravated with him, and I feel your pain, because last spring BIL came to me practically catatonic with fear and anxiety that he couldn't pay the property taxes on the house, and he was afraid the IRS was going to take it (there is NO connection there--he doesn't have any liens on the property) or he would run out of money completely, or whatever. So I said, "I'll pay the property taxes and deduct it from your share of the house when it sells." That gave him a lot of relief.
Yesterday he comes in and he had a brand new haircut and highlights. I complimented him on it and asked where he had it done. He had it done at a very tony spa in Princeton where I USED to go years ago when I was more liberal with my spending, but now can't afford it, even though I make about 10 times more than he does. A cut and color costs a woman $360.00, but for him it's probably less. BUT STILL!!!
When he said that, I felt the same way I did just after I had paid his property taxes (he was a year delinquent) after his melt-down. Two days later, I found out he had donated $300 to a friend on a GoFundMe account for her sick mother.
When I asked him about it, he puffed himself up and said "Well, I felt bad and figured if I can afford it...." My immediate reaction was, "But you CAN'T afford it! That's why I'm paying your [darned] property taxes!!" I heard his mother in his speech and intonation. She was generous, but she only gave when she could actually afford it.
I'm looking forward to this house getting off our hands (now the closing is October 10) and cutting ties financially.
Sorry for long response to your question!
ToomuchStuff
9-6-17, 9:42am
Why would these men go MGTOW?
I've been trying to figure out what does MGTOW mean? Because if it means what I think it means, aren't you being redundantly redundant?
TMS, Gimmee's post explained MGTOW is what such young men go by - it means Men Going Their Own Way.
Gella, I have a couple that I am friends with who have a son that does not participate in life but is very busy in their home. If they were not able to support him on their joint pensions, I wonder what the alternative might be. He enables them to travel freely as he minds the house and does the cleaning etc. Never had a girlfriend that my friends have mentioned and he would be about 40ish. I have never seen or met him.
Parents enable dependent adult children because they are enabled in some way as well. When the benefits no longer equal the obligations or liabilities, changes are made.
This morning, I met a long-term friend on my walk who I asked about the Millenial approach for the male. She said that one young man who graduated in 'risk management' has easily obtained employment using online contacts alone but he has a full social life with a wife and child.
I asked her thoughts about a 30ish young male relative who didn't socialize at all and spent all his time in his room when in someone else's home. She, with some background in law enforcement, cautioned:
- what is the legal liability of any inappropriate use of the internet of which the homeowner is unaware? Can this be managed?
- how will an unwanted guest be removed?
- are the parents of the relative hoping that the homeowners will assume responsibility for the future of the young man? How is that being managed?
Personally I don't think it is a Millenial or an introvert issue. Years ago, no one was allowed to withdraw because if one didn't work or participate, one didn't get fed with food in short supply. Parents now have more money to enable dependent adult children. I have read where the withdrawing or other child who didn't inherit had a position purchased in the military or clergy where they could hide for their whole life if so desired. Consequences were often not positive for any.
Some thoughts to consider.
My neighbor has a 40-something son who lives with her. He has at least some college and a more than adequate job. I imagine he pays rent and I know he does work around the house. It seems to work well for them.
iris lilies
9-6-17, 1:29pm
To razz's point: yep, once that guy is in your house you may have trouble legally booting him if it comes to that. The way to address that is to get him to sign a lease. Arent you, the OP, in California?
Oy vey, that is the land where tenants squat forever.
This young man may be depressed, he may be an immature introvert, he may be other things. But clearly, his parents cannot deal with his (what was once called ) "laziness" and have tried a new plan using you, the OP. Protect yourself, set boundaries.
This would not be IN PLACE OF helping him navigate mental health services but would be in addition to that.
I like that, Chicken lady! :)
In DH's defense, I've seen several companies which interview for positions which will be funded in their new fiscal year (January). That easily could happen in the first couple of weeks of December. After that, though, the logistics of holiday events, people taking time off (at my day job we had to use our vacation by year end or lose it), and year-end activities (closing the books, etc.), pretty much do in any serious job-hunting efforts. My sense, though, is that it won't make a practical difference if Nephew is simply enjoying (?) a three-month-long vacation.
As for letting Nephew stay with you once/if he gets a job, I would stop entertaining that thought. If he needs a grubstake, his parents should be providing it, not you and DH. This young man sounds like he's going to have a crashing introduction into Real Life. And when he loses the new job because he can't be arsed to show up on time or do anything useful while he's there, where will he end up? There's no reason you need to be there to help clean up any more than you have. You've done your bit.
+2 Chicken Lady! Love it. And don't doubt for a second that I didn't consider it!
The thing is, he has a Bachelor's in Information Technology and a Masters in Computer Science and we live in Silicon Valley. There are lots of jobs here for someone with that background. But the fact that he did no job searching before his arrival, did no job searching his first week here (claimed he was waiting to see if he liked it here), and has since made no mention of actual job hunting at all leads me to believe that he's not working all that hard to find a job. He's been here almost 3 weeks without so much as a peep about actual jobs he's pursuing.
Dh is thinking that he was getting pressured at home to find a job and came out here to coast for a while.
On Monday Dh took him walking to the shopping center nearby so he could see where everything was. I had previously driven by and shown him where everything was and how close it is. When they got home he said the stores were 'far' and wasn't enthused about walking there. The shopping center is less than 1/4 of a mile. The little old lady down the street walks there everyday to do shopping for her family. She must be at least 80 years old, she's all hunched over, but she pulls her little rolling shopping cart with her and several times a week lugs home one of those big jugs of water. But it's too far for this healthy, able bodied, 30 year old man.
Teacher Terry
9-6-17, 5:35pm
Sorry that you have gotten into this situation. It would make me uncomfortable to have someone in the house never leaving the room. Knowing this I probably would not have let him come in the first place but I realize you guys were trying to be helpful. No way would I let any of my 3 boys or 2 step-sons do this.
I am not sure if his "developmental issues" are a product of nature or nurture. His mother certainly enabled his Peter Pan existence. But even she said that while he's perfectly normal in so many respects, there's just something "off." He's very funny and can carry a conversation, but sometimes he just makes little sense. He'll go off on tangents or indulge on these projected scenarios that are not guaranteed to happen at all, creating a LOT of anxiety for him. He'll construct entire scenes in his head, with full-blown dialogue of what he "knows" is going to happen (usually a negative outcome). I'll challenge him and say, "How do you KNOW that? That's only ONE thing that might happen." It's very aggravating, and it definitely keeps him stuck in life, because he always bets on things happening for the worst.
But right now I'm aggravated with him, and I feel your pain, because last spring BIL came to me practically catatonic with fear and anxiety that he couldn't pay the property taxes on the house, and he was afraid the IRS was going to take it (there is NO connection there--he doesn't have any liens on the property) or he would run out of money completely, or whatever. So I said, "I'll pay the property taxes and deduct it from your share of the house when it sells." That gave him a lot of relief.
Yesterday he comes in and he had a brand new haircut and highlights. I complimented him on it and asked where he had it done. He had it done at a very tony spa in Princeton where I USED to go years ago when I was more liberal with my spending, but now can't afford it, even though I make about 10 times more than he does. A cut and color costs a woman $360.00, but for him it's probably less. BUT STILL!!!
When he said that, I felt the same way I did just after I had paid his property taxes (he was a year delinquent) after his melt-down. Two days later, I found out he had donated $300 to a friend on a GoFundMe account for her sick mother.
When I asked him about it, he puffed himself up and said "Well, I felt bad and figured if I can afford it...." My immediate reaction was, "But you CAN'T afford it! That's why I'm paying your [darned] property taxes!!" I heard his mother in his speech and intonation. She was generous, but she only gave when she could actually afford it.
I'm looking forward to this house getting off our hands (now the closing is October 10) and cutting ties financially.
Sorry for long response to your question!
Now I'm feeling your pain! Wow.
I've joked many times that some people don't know how to be poor. We have a friend who has been underemployed for decades and is always on the cusp of financial disaster and his mother always bails him out. He's in his 50's. He'll be lamenting that he might lose his insurance because he can't afford to make his premium that month (he's self-employed). A week later he will be talking about going to Hawaii with his GF for 10 days. I think these people have learned that playing the victim gets them what they want and have no qualms about doing it even if it hurts others.
Catherine - I would have been tempted to rip those highlighted locks right out of his head! You're a saint to put up with him. Maybe slap him around a little bit? I bet you'd feel better. :)
+2 Chicken Lady! Love it. And don't doubt for a second that I didn't consider it!
The thing is, he has a Bachelor's in Information Technology and a Masters in Computer Science and we live in Silicon Valley. There are lots of jobs here for someone with that background. But the fact that he did no job searching before his arrival, did no job searching his first week here (claimed he was waiting to see if he liked it here), and has since made no mention of actual job hunting at all leads me to believe that he's not working all that hard to find a job. He's been here almost 3 weeks without so much as a peep about actual jobs he's pursuing.
So unless he's not looking or gives off a bad vibe in interviews, this guy is hireable.
If Nephew were my houseguest I think I'd be looking at some tough love. razz makes some very good points about your possible liability here. And I would be doing some contingency planning to make sure Nephew is out of your house by the time your decided deadline arrives. I'd say you should re-key the locks -- but if he doesn't leave the house, that would make no difference. :~)
Yes, razz made some excellent points and I was starting to feel a bit concerned about that. But here is some great news...
The nephew has left the building!!! As in, he has left to stay somewhere else.
A few hours after I asked him to clean the bathroom he informed us that he had made plans to stay with friends of his parents who live in the area. It seems that the double whammy of being told that he would have to leave the house and procure his own food and clean after himself made this situation unbearable for him! And I can say one thing: he is not depressed. The speed with which he made alternate arrangements, packed up his big stash of belongings, and hightailed it out of here was impressive! He practically ran out the door. I was left reeling with shock. :laff:
Dh is concerned that he will not last very long at that location and that he'll be asking to come back. I'm not sure how we would handle that if it happens. Dh doesn't think he can refuse because he's family. I think we could do a very limited stay and just be firm with the date and communicate it with his parents as well so that they won't be surprised when we tell him to go home.
But for now, I have my house back! Yay!
Oh my word. What a mess. So glad he took off on his own. I was really afraid you were in for a long fight and I know if you don't have peace in your home it can really mess with everything else in your life. So glad he's gone. If he wears out his welcome somewhere else and asks to come back...First, I'd say no, but if you feel like you have to...lay out the rules.
Goodness, please do not let him come back, and tell the BIL (his dad) that he cannot come back.
Teacher Terry
9-7-17, 7:39pm
Great news! I would say a hell no to ever coming back:))
Whew! What a shame that he doesn't have a clue about how to be a good guest. I'm happy you have your house back!
Wonder what he is telling his parents. It would be wise to develop a response - sort of about how you treated him as you would any member of the family, doing chores, cleaning his bedroom and bathroom, buying the food that he liked to eat and doing some chores. It may never come up but just in case....
Wonder what he is telling his parents. It would be wise to develop a response - sort of about how you treated him as you would any member of the family, doing chores, cleaning his bedroom and bathroom, buying the food that he liked to eat and doing some chores. It may never come up but just in case....
I'm pretty sure he's spinning a tale of woe to his parents and the parent's friends where he's at now. We're not worried about it. When I told dh last night that I was willing to be the bad guy if his family has an issue, he said that he doesn't care what they think. His brother told him that nephew is spoiled when they spoke the day of his arrival. So his dad is at least aware of the problem. I think mom is probably going to be upset because he's her baby and only boy. But dh said he will tell them that we treated him like the adult that he is. And if they have a problem, too bad. Dh's sister complained about nephew on her last visit and felt that he was taking advantage of his dad who has had some serious health issues, has a physical job at low pay, and has continued to subsidize nephew's lifestyle. So nephew's laziness and selfishness has been noticed by other members of the family.
If nephew does want to come back I don't think dh will be able to refuse, but we will make it clear that we are not babysitters. And we will insist on a clear exit date. But honestly I don't think that he will be around that long. I think he expected to be treated like he is at home and this has been a rude awakening. I suspect he will be heading home soon.
I think you can refuse. It's your house.
I think you can refuse. It's your house.
I've been thinking about this. And you guys are right. Dh might not be able to refuse, but I can. And it's my house too. Thanks for the nudge.
Yeah. I'd get a big, unfriendly dog and change the locks. :~) He doesn't sound deserving of any more free accommodation from you.
ApatheticNoMore
9-8-17, 11:22am
I would have pegged it as severe social phobia (I had roommates I didn't talk to in my early 20s for awhile), but I guess not so much so ...
Although I will have to say his career plans never made any sense, unless you are hoping to be hired at a particular company as that's your goal in life, or it's your lifelong dream to live there, getting a job there makes absolutely no sense, you'll pull in 6 figures and live in someone's closet to make rent. No county for young(ish) men.
On the subject of guests, I've been wondering about something that's been bugging me.
In the past few months we've had three house guests who have wanted to use our wifi, printer, or computer for their own purposes. And each time, they have simply gone over to dh and my desk and proceeded to rustle around looking for what they needed and using the equipment or finding the info they needed without so much as a word to us even when we are sitting in the same room. A couple of times they have even moved our furniture so that they could plug in their own devices where they wanted. Then they left the furniture all askew after they were done. This seems really rude to me. A simple, "Do you mind if I use X?" or asking for what they were looking for would have been appreciated. It felt like a violation of our space. Am I being too picky?
One of these guests also proceeded to scatter his stuff all over the living room every morning making the whole sectional unavailable to anyone else. He left his stuff there all day (despite having a bedroom with plenty of storage and space) and I finally had to ask him to move it so I could sit down in the evening. This same person (and possibly his GF) will be staying with us in a week for a few days. He will be here for a job interview. In the past he has even brought along GF's kids without asking.
Can you tell I'm getting house guest fatigue?
How do I politely (or not so politely) establish some boundaries so that I don't feel overrun in my own home?
This past year we've had a ton of visitors (all of them dh's family and friends) and I'm kind of worn out. My house is not your free hotel, people! >:(
I'm also a bit out of sorts because I talked to dh last night about me not wanting to allow nephew to come back and he said he doesn't think he can say that to his family. So if it does happen, I will have to decide if it's a battle worth fighting. Sucks.
ETA: I'm also worried that if the friend does get the job he and his GF will ask to stay with us until they find their own place. I would hate that. And I'm sure dh would say yes.
iris lilies
9-8-17, 4:04pm
We have had two sets of visitors from Switzerland in the past year. They were all were young people. I am not an especially good hostess in anticipating their needs but fortunately I didn't have to be that, they just asked for what they needed.
They needed our Wi-Fi passcode and they asked for it, and I gave it to them. We have electric plugs all over the bedroom they stayed in, And I did not notice that they moved any furniture to use the plugs. But if they had to move furniture to use plugs, that is fine with me because they need to charge their electronic equipment.
You have an advantage in that you now pretty much know what people need in your home so establish a place where they can charge electronic devices and point to it when they come. Tell them that if they wish to use any of your electronic devices, it is certainly possible but you need to be there to sign them onto the equipment. Our guests couldn't use our computer without us there, it needs a password.
We have had two sets of visitors from Switzerland in the past year. They were all were young people. I am not an especially good hostess in anticipating their needs but fortunately I didn't have to be that, they just asked for what they needed.
They needed our Wi-Fi passcode and they asked for it, and I gave it to them. We have electric plugs all over the bedroom they stayed in, And I did not notice that they moved any furniture to use the plugs. But if they had to move furniture to use plugs, that is fine with me because they need to charge their electronic equipment.
You have an advantage in that you now pretty much know what people need in your home so establish a place where they can charge electronic devices and point to it when they come. Tell them that if they wish to use any of your electronic devices, it is certainly possible but you need to be there to sign them onto the equipment. Our guests couldn't use our computer without us there, it needs a password.
We specifically made sure that the guest bedroom has plenty of plugs and pointed it out to them (4 outlets in plain sight, one on each wall). We also have plugs by the island and kitchen table. However, these two guests decided they wanted to spread out on the sectional instead, which meant that the plugs were not as accessible. So they moved a side table, dh's desk, unplugged the shredder, moved dh's chair, etc., just to plug in while they used their devices.
ETA: I think I'm just tired and cranky. Nephew just left, next week more people arrive, nephew might come back... Bleghh. I don't want to deal with any more people here.
When I travel, I take wifi as a given, even at someone's house. I would ask you for your wifi password if it wasn't prominently displayed.I figure if they want to keep their network private, they would have set up a guest wifi since its trivial to do so (and if they don't have a guest wifi, I'm not the type to be poking around on someone's network anyway). I'd also look for a place to recharge my electronics, preferably in my guest room or somewhere obvious so I won't leave any of them behind. I'd ask if it was ok to use your printer first though, and I wouldn't touch your computer. I would not paw around your desk looking for any passwords.
Which reminds me, I should put up a chalkboard or something with the current wifi password on it for my guest room. I do have a table in the guest room with an extension cord/extra plugs on top for recharging and an extra (old) Apple cable. I probably should add a usb charging cable too.
However, these two guests decided they wanted to spread out on the sectional instead, which meant that the plugs were not as accessible
I think your guests were rude, if they did this without clearing it with you first. And it sounds like they didn't clear it with you.
I'm seriously considering telling dh that his friends coming next week need to stay somewhere else. They are exhausting (expect to be fed, waited on, don't clean up after themselves after meals let alone offer to help with cleanup, etc). Because dh is at work, it all falls to me. And I'm tired of it.
Today I'm cleaning out the guest bedroom and washing sheets, etc. And I'll have to do it all again next week.
I feel like maybe SAD is hitting me early because I feel really cranky right now. And I have a headache. And I have laundry to do, a house to clean, and I'm already tired.
Have you and DH had a chat about boundaries for guests. I may be wrong but I don't think that is a usual guy thing to think about, not negligence; it's just not on their radar because often, they have little to do when guests come. What are the parameters you wish set, prioritize them, think about it some more and re-prioritize to see if anything else comes up or has changed. Get a good night's sleep and show your DH as you are getting tired and don't like feeling that way. Ask him, "Help find a solution please".
As others have encountered similar issues, I hope you won't mind if I start a thread on this topic.
Maybe you guys can help me brainstorm ways to reduce the visitor load. I'm looking for suggestions on how to handle the following type of situations:
When people want to visit SF and surrounding areas, they ask to stay with us.
When people want to bring their children to visit local colleges, they ask to stay with us.
When people are in town for a funeral, they make it into a vacation, and ask to stay with us.
When people are in town for conferences, they make it into a long weekend, and ask to stay with us.
You get the idea. All of these visits are anywhere from a few days to several weeks long. All of dh's family lives in the east coast and likes this area. They like to visit often. He has five siblings. Many of dh's friend live in So. Cal and like to make regular visits to the Bay for work and fun.
This has been going on for years. And I've foolishly made a habit of working hard to be a good hostess by providing the best experiences for them that I can. Mea culpa. That's on me. I'm taking steps to change that. But I also want to set boundaries and limits. In an odd way, I think AirBnB has made the visits worse because now it seems like a perfectly normal thing to do to use someone's house as your own personal vacation getaway. It feels like people take more liberties now and expect more latitude in behavior.
:help:
p.s. Dh and I make lots of sacrifices in order to afford living here. We drive ancient cars, live modestly, avoid eating out, etc... so it's also a financial hit to host so many people. And most of the people that we host live more extravagantly than we do.
Have you and DH had a chat about boundaries for guests. I may be wrong but I don't think that is a usual guy thing to think about, not negligence; it's just not on their radar because often, they have little to do when guests come. What are the parameters you wish set, prioritize them, think about it some more and re-prioritize to see if anything else comes up or has changed. Get a good night's sleep and show your DH as you are getting tired and don't like feeling that way. Ask him, "Help find a solution please".
As others have encountered similar issues, I hope you won't mind if I start a thread on this topic.
Not at all! That would be great. I didn't see your post before, I think we cross posted. I'd be happy to move my cry for help over to your new thread. :)
And yes to everything else you said above!
I should tell you to just say no, but I wouldn't be able to do that myself, so I can't tell you to do it.
You could say, "We limit houseguests to immediate family.. nothing personal. It's just a policy we have because of the numbers of people who have asked to stay here. It just got to be too much. I'm sure you understand."
You could say yes, but set expectations: "Because we like to provide all our friends with the opportunity to stay here, and we get many requests, we have found it best to provide clean sheets, towels, and wifi. Everything else is up to you. I'm sure you understand."
You could say, "We can only host friends/family once a quarter, and we've actually exceeded that, so we'd be happy to recommend hotels in the area. I'm sure you understand."
You could lie: "Sorry, somebody asked us already for that weekend! We'd be happy to recommend hotels in the area."
You could be obnoxious: "We'd love to host you! Because we constantly offer our home to family and friends, we ask our guests to [give a donation to our favorite charity/take us to dinner.]"
In any case, Geila, it's tough!! I'm glad I live in a place no one wants to visit!!
I guess it's a hazard of living in a place that people want to visit. We have had way more guests (luckily very short term) than usual since moving to Colorado but haven't had anyone that made demands like yours have. I have had fixit guys in the house for the last month and it's driving me nuts. I love my privacy and serenity so wouldn't tolerate more than an occasional short term guest.
I am canning purple plums that a friend gave me so have time to think while waiting for the pressure canner to heat up etc.
Gella, please correct me where I am mistaken but does this say how you are feeling right now? It is costly, time consuming, exhausting and it simply cannot continue. It is hard to say 'no' and 'that is enough' but do you have to be utterly beat and exhausted before you say no?
Catherine has excellent phrasing and I offer the following:
"After welcoming family and friends over these many years, it is time to scale back. It is simply no longer sustainable. Please understand that we would gladly help you by providing a list of accommodation in the area."
Razz - yes, you described my feelings perfectly. Thank you!
Earlier I took some Advil for the headache, cleaned my house, did the laundry and headed to the pool. I hadn't been to the gym since Sunday and I was possibly going through withdrawal. I feel much better now. I also had a hearty salad with tuna and egg.
But I do need to have a conversation with dh about setting limits and making changes. I get that he likes being Mr. Nice Guy, but at some point, enough is enough. I really like your phrase, but I just don't know that I'll be able to convince dh to use it. I'm going to try though.
It's interesting that I was feeling really good until I started thinking about this again, and now I feel tired. My body is telling me something important.
Your husband like to say yes to everyone but then he likes to delegate the actual visit to you. He doesn't do the work of prep and clean up and he gets to go off to work and skip the actual entertaining.
He is saying yes for you.
I have you an idea for handling this in the other thread just now.
You don't have to make his yes a reality. You can smile and wave as you go about your own life as he does. Let the guests do everything for themselves. See how it all falls out if you act that way.
iris lilies
9-9-17, 8:24am
Your husband like to say yes to everyone but then he likes to delegate the actual visit to you. He doesn't do the work of prep and clean up and he gets to go off to work and skip the actual entertaining.
He is saying yes for you.
I have you an idea for handling this in the other thread just now.
You don't have to make his yes a reality. You can smile and wave as you go about your own life as he does. Let the guests do everything for themselves. See how it all falls out if you act that way.
Yes to this.
It is always DH's family who visits and stays with us. He gets to clean the carpets since he is the one who insists on keeping carpet. I will clean the rest of the house, and we both wash sheets and make beds. After that, the visit is up to him to manage, I am out.
DH needs to figure out food (although I usually will shop, and consult with him what to buy for breakfasts.)
If people wish to be taken around town to see sights, he does that. Our visitor last winter was a very nice young man, but socially awkward, and then we dont speak his language. I found it excruciating to be around him, loooooong silences. I suggested to DH a few places threy should go, and excused myself.
During other visits, and when guests need our beds, I sleep at the home of a neighbor and frankly, am happy to escape some of the guests' visit.
Dh and I have reached an agreement. We are taking a one year break from all house guests effective immediately. After a year, we will set limits on the length of each stay and on the total visits per year. And then I will do exactly what Tammy said! We have dogs, including a very protective boxer and I've been concerned that they would bark and scare the visitors if I wasn't home when they came and went. But no more. If it makes the visit less pleasant for them, all the better.
Years ago we were visiting family for Thanksgiving and we asked to stay with my brother and his family in their huge fancy house. They said yes, we visited during the day and had a good time. When bed time came we were led to my brother's small home office next to the garage. There was an inflatable air mattress on the floor with pillows and a blanket. The office furniture and mattress took up all the floor space and there was nowhere to walk. When you stepped in the room you were already on the mattress and you had to climb over each other to get out of bed. We never asked to stay there again. They had a huge loft area upstairs but it was not offered. It turns out brother's wife does not like having people over. It was weird because they had stayed with us many times and we used to have their kids stay with us on summer and holiday breaks (per their request) since they both worked full-time.
This break is going to be hard for dh to adhere to, but I'm glad that he is willing to do it. I have felt so relieved since yesterday morning when we reached the agreement.
Thanks for helping me see that I needed this!
Ah! I see this plan now after responding on the other thread. and I'm so happy for you to have a year off!
Congrats, Geila, on making a great decision!!!
iris lilies
11-16-17, 6:35pm
Well, I have an update.
We received a call from DH’s sister that Swiss relatives would be coming in a few days, probably. Likely. But not for sure. Exact ETA unknown. I had a meltdown since this visit would require two bedrooms and our upstairs carpets were filthy, and it was raining and ya’ll knw about our leaking bedroom ceiling.
So DH spent several hours cleaning carpets and floors (but no roof repair!!! Haha) . Then we had a problem because we both had prior engagements on the night the relatives were supposed to come (later their arrival day was conveyed to us.) But by then I considered it his problem to address. So, I just decided to let it all unfold. I am not picky where I sleep, I can sleep on our downstairs sofa or go to my friend’s house down the street. DH was on his own to figure out his own sleeping arrangements.
Then they arrived. These relatives came in the middle of the afternoon when DH was working the election polls. I was washing bedding, getting ready to make up beds. I Invited them in, talked to them for an hour, and they left to drive to Florida.
i got a clean house out of this deal, but it was touch and go for a while as to what was happening and when.
I like these relatives a lot, I like maintaining a relationship with the Swiss relatives, and the flexibility required is something I can now do but egad it was not do-able back when I was working.
Teacher Terry
11-17-17, 12:23pm
I would think if you are traveling form Europe you would know months in advance that you are coming. I would require a longer notice. I love to host but this is ridiculous.
iris lilies
11-17-17, 1:16pm
I would think if you are traveling form Europe you would know months in advance that you are coming. I would require a longer notice. I love to host but this is ridiculous.
They dont know months in advance, but they know weeks in advance. They dont know their schedule once they get to the U.S. because they drive, and this trip was centered on hockey games around the country.
The ridiculous thing is that dH doesnt have Stephen’s phone number. But whateveah, it is DH’s problem other than I refuse to put up people when our house is filthy. I am becoming resigned ro having houseguests here when our dinng room is full of flower show crap. That is mess, not filth.
I HAtE the damned carpeting upstairs, our pets make it filthy. But I remind Dh he is making it hard on himself by insisting that we retain old, dirty carpeting. This is entirely in his realm of authority to change.
Teacher Terry
11-17-17, 2:36pm
WE don't have any carpet in our house because of the dogs. I would never leave these types of decisions up to him. How my house looks is important to me so I take charge in that department. If I could not have 2 weeks notice I would not put them up.
Sad Eyed Lady
11-19-17, 10:37am
I have often thought that living in a small apartment would solve the issue of unwanted or long term house guests. One bedroom and it is occupied!
I simply could not do what you have done OP, and it is time for a break and a change for you. It would be different if this young man was having problems beyond his control and needed temporary shelter, but that is not the case. Stay strong in your resolve.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.