Bromance break-up?

[Ultralight]

It seems a fairly good friend of mine who I met around this time last year in my first social work class has broken up with me! hahaha

He is full-on SJW -- though a nice enough guy despite his dislike for free speech, due process, and white people.

Why did we go to Splitsville?

That racist pampered dough boy Richard Spencer. That is why!

My SJW friend and I disagreed on OSU's handling of the issue.
He cited "making people feel safe" and such.

I cited the good ol' first amendment.

Then he sent me an NPR podcast about how racists hide behind free speech. (Check it out here: http://www.npr.org/2017/09/04/548471325/how-president-trumps-rhetoric-is-changing-the-way-americans-talk

Then I sent him a podcast about identity politics & free speech and such by Sam Harris. (Check it out here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2-G7E5BfGQ

(And I also said I thought Sam Harris to be one of the most important public intellectuals of our time -- so that probably sank the boat faster.)

Then poof! Finito! No mas!
Friendship appears dissolved.

But isn't this odd?

There is a rhetorical and ideological war in the house of The Left.

[Tammy]

😄😄😄
People don't know how to tolerate ideological differences anymore without making a total enemy.

[Tybee]

I'm sorry you lost a friend! I noticed SO much of this during the election--people were actually breaking up with their parents over how they voted, and one of my kid's friends vowed to not let the grandmother see the grandchild anymore because she voted for Trump. I know brothers who stopped speaking, etc- reminds me of the Civil War, actually.

[razz]

I am going to differ on this recognizing that I am not as involved with the emotion of the US political scene.
When others feel really strongly about things, I let it go and say 'let's agree to disagree' not continuing to offer my view.
I will also say that I know that they are smart and capable individuals as am I and we both are on the same journey. I repeat as necessary until the other party recognizes that s/he is hitting out at air. This too will pass is the end result of whatever is an issue at present unless our fundamental values are in conflict which is a whole different issue and we wouldn't be good friends then anyway.

[Lainey]

I knew someone whose good friend became a born-again Christian. After that, the born-again said they could no longer be friends unless the other guy became a Christian too. He declined, and their friendship immediately ended.
Sad to see all this self-segregation continuing.

[iris lilies]

It seems a fairly good friend of mine who I met around this time last year in my first social work class has broken up with me! hahaha

He is full-on SJW -- though a nice enough guy despite his dislike for free speech, due process, and white people.

Why did we go to Splitsville?

That racist pampered dough boy Richard Spencer. That is why!

My SJW friend and I disagreed on OSU's handling of the issue.
He cited "making people feel safe" and such.

I cited the good ol' first amendment.

Then he sent me an NPR podcast about how racists hide behind free speech. (Check it out here: http://www.npr.org/2017/09/04/548471325/how-president-trumps-rhetoric-is-changing-the-way-americans-talk

Then I sent him a podcast about identity politics & free speech and such by Sam Harris. (Check it out here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2-G7E5BfGQ

(And I also said I thought Sam Harris to be one of the most important public intellectuals of our time -- so that probably sank the boat faster.)

Then poof! Finito! No mas!
Friendship appears dissolved.

But isn't this odd?

There is a rhetorical and ideological war in the house of The Left.

welcome to our world. Things have been fractured in the house of
Right for some time.

[Zoe Girl]

Yup, I can handle some differences but I also have a limit. The one conservative member of the family doesn't bring things up and neither do I. I don't think differences of opinion would break up a friendship for me, but I will tell you how it is handled definitely could. I have some standards about all this, I do not call names with political figures, their family is off limits, and tone matters. If I am treating someone with respect I expect the same. Too much of the talk has become simply rude, even just people not dropping it when it is clear you are not going to agree. I am not going out of my way to have these conversations right now,

I also don't really have tolerance for racism or sexism. So if someone doesn't know that and makes a racist joke I will often say something then, if they continue then we are obviously not compatible as friends. Sexism, if it is clear and obvious I just walk off. Not my job to teach that. If someone is thoroughly sexist it is not like hearing something from a woman will change it.

[ApatheticNoMore]

It seems a dumb reason to end a friendship but maybe it is how it was handled, maybe people tire of arguing, it's not everyone's idea of fun (if I willingly argue obviously it's what I'm seeking, but really it can be wearying to people if one argues with those who weren't at all seeking that).

of course as many here have argued it's not about making people *feel* safe, but actually concern for protecting people's real physical safety (well one person has died for that BS already afterall - make that 3 actually).

[Ultralight]

This is the closest thing to an argument we have had. We agree on the bread & butter issues.

Though once he and I did "argue" over whether or not it is possible to criticize Islam while still protecting the rights of Muslim people.

[Zoe Girl]

There is something pathetic in insisting on perfect agreement with one's friends. Have we raised such a pampered generation that challenges or completion of any kind is seen as a dire threat?


I wouldn't assume that is the case, and I have no idea what generation people are in. I do know that in many ways people are suffering from a lack of compassion, both offering and receiving. I have had a friendship end because I finally decided they were just not a nice person. I could tell everyone how they are not a nice person, get a lot of sympathy, and move on. Looking back I think a moment of compassion for when a friendship ends under any circumstance is very kind.

And so many of these conversations here are wearing me down. We have no idea what is going on but a lot of the language is very judgy. This could be an opportunity for extending some heartfelt good wishes, a brief compassion, and then moving on. It could also be a point of brief self reflection. Was there something I didn't notice then but I do notice now?

So UA, I am simply feeling compassion that you lost a friendship.

[LDAHL]

There is something pathetic in insisting on agreement from one's friends it bespeaks a mind so pampered and lazy that any form of competition or challenge is a dire threat.

Of what use is such a person to the world at large or even himself?

[creaker]

"Agree to disagree" is something that has fallen from the lexicon of many people.

[JaneV2.0]

There is something pathetic in insisting on agreement from one's friends it bespeaks a mind so pampered and lazy that any form of competition or challenge is a dire threat.

Of what use is such a person to the world at large or even himself?

Pompous much? :D

If I had a friend whose positions were constantly at odds with mine, I would have to consider if his/her other attributes made the friendship worth my time. Some positions--particularly mean-spirited or racist ones--would hasten my departure from the arena, certainly.

[creaker]

There is something pathetic in insisting on agreement from one's friends it bespeaks a mind so pampered and lazy that any form of competition or challenge is a dire threat.

Of what use is such a person to the world at large or even himself?

There's always been red lines and deal breakers - but they just seem to be in so many more places. And the old "if you don't have anything nice to say..." has really gotten flipped. So many people do just the opposite.

[Float On]

I've lost friends over trivial things.
One friend I quit the friendship when I got tired of her only subject - her and her husband's sex life.
One friend I quit when she kept asking if I thought all she thought about was herself. She turned every conversation towards herself.
Another friend I quit because she kept copying me. It became creepy that she was idolizing me.
And darn it all the people I really liked moved away.

[Tenngal]

It seems a fairly good friend of mine who I met around this time last year in my first social work class has broken up with me! hahaha

He is full-on SJW -- though a nice enough guy despite his dislike for free speech, due process, and white people.

Why did we go to Splitsville?

That racist pampered dough boy Richard Spencer. That is why!

My SJW friend and I disagreed on OSU's handling of the issue.
He cited "making people feel safe" and such.

I cited the good ol' first amendment.

Then he sent me an NPR podcast about how racists hide behind free speech. (Check it out here: http://www.npr.org/2017/09/04/548471325/how-president-trumps-rhetoric-is-changing-the-way-americans-talk

Then I sent him a podcast about identity politics & free speech and such by Sam Harris. (Check it out here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2-G7E5BfGQ

(And I also said I thought Sam Harris to be one of the most important public intellectuals of our time -- so that probably sank the boat faster.)

Then poof! Finito! No mas!
Friendship appears dissolved.

But isn't this odd?

There is a rhetorical and ideological war in the house of The Left.

You do remember my 84 yr old aunt who "unfriended" me because I voted for Hillary?

Some people have no tolerance for ideas other than their own.

[JaneV2.0]

You do remember my 84 yr old aunt who "unfriended" me because I voted for Hillary?

Some people have no tolerance for ideas other than their own.

I may have mentioned before that my grandmother practically had an existential crisis because one of my uncles ran for office as a Democrat, and she apparently couldn't bring herself to violate her principles by voting for him. But we didn't shun her because of it. (As it turns out, he won anyway.)

[LDAHL]

Pompous much? :D

If I had a friend whose positions were constantly at odds with mine, I would have to consider if his/her other attributes made the friendship worth my time. Some positions--particularly mean-spirited or racist ones--would hasten my departure from the arena, certainly.

Pompous constantly!

Ultralight's case isn't close to what you're talking about, which is probably and thankfully very rare. It wasn't virtue shunning egregious vice, it was a sanctimonious twit accusing him of "hiding behind free speech". How do you hide behind free speech? To think something like that, wouldn't you have to believe Ultralight to be some sort of closet racist using free speech as an excuse to get his guy heard?

If you use politics as a substitute for morality, I suppose it's possible to formulate any disagreement as racism opposed to your own fair-mindedness. That's a lot easier than attempting to form coherent arguments. I disagree with good friends on any number of issues from abortion to the metric system. Neither party considers the other to be evil. Just wrong. That doesn't mean their "not worth my time". It just makes our conversations more interesting.

What could be more pathetic than insisting on surrounding yourself with "+1s"?

[JaneV2.0]

Sometimes, politics seems to be shorthand for morality, but I agree that Ultralight's friend was almost comically out of line.

[Tybee]

I wonder if UL's friend thought he was "hiding behind free speech" because UL's friend perceives there to be an obligation to combat racism in whatever form it occurs, including someone giving a speech with racist ideas. I am thinking that because of my experience with social work students, social work faculty, and the concept of the "social justice warrior." Which is a dumb concept, in my opinion, but that's just my opinion.

[ApatheticNoMore]

UL situation seems extreme because they agree on most things and only seem to have a few disagreements, though how such things are handled matters. I don't think most people are actually going out of their way to meet friends who are vastly different from them the majority of the time. People who have such friends it's usually someone they knew from elementary school or high school or college at the most anyway (I do think that is the main way people end up with friends that are nothing like them) They usually aren't going out of their way to just to expand their understanding of life or something in adulthood by befriending people of all positions from every possible walk of life or something. People do like people similar to them.

[Chicken lady]

My dad has been best friends with the same guy since 4th grade. Every year Dad spends a week with the guy and his wife (they are childless by choice). They have agreed never to talk about two topics - one is politics, the other is my Dad's weight.

But the last visit the friend asked my dad "do you know anybody more liberal than we are? And my Dad said "my granddaughter. She thinks it's criminal that i get to collect socal security. Anybody else want another beer?"

We argue politics in my family. We do not fight them. I would have trouble being friends with someone i saw actively working to change the world in ways i found harmful, but otoh, way back before dh became more sensible, i used to joke that i was going to get a rainbow tie-dyed t-shirt with a peace sign and the words "sleeping with the enemy since 1986"