Another Kondo thread: Is "Does it Spark Joy" the right Q? [Archive]

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catherine

9-14-17, 4:14pm

This article (https://www.becomingminimalist.com/does-it-spark-joy-is-the-wrong-decluttering-question/) wound up on my FB feed and I think it's really provocative.

"Does It Spark Joy Is the Wrong Decluttering Question"

The thesis is, "does it spark joy" is the wrong question because it still focuses on the material object, rather than what will REALLY make us happy. There is an interesting discussion in the comments as well.

ApatheticNoMore

9-14-17, 4:59pm

hmm I think I've had this debate before, "does it spark joy" feels like asking me to have more of an emotional relationship with things than is simply there for most things with very few exceptions. And actually from what I've heard this is kind of a common thing with some cluttering types, that yes some hoarders love things and that's why they hoard, they COLLECT really but it can get excessive, but some clutters are almost oblivious to their physical surroundings as physical surroundings.

Also that "sparking joy" is pretty dangerous in asking people to take "joy" in possessions, same ideology as consumerism. Besides if one is perfectionist the things one actually owns are not as perfect as the ideal thing could be, so why not change them all in for something new again? Well because it's completely stupid and materialistic that's why. But expecting one's possessions to spark joy rather than just do the job does seem likely to lead to such things. Ever seen the actual environment of some lifelong environmental types, yea their furniture etc. is ragged and worn as it was maybe bought used and kept for decades. I don't know if they ask if it sparks joy, I think they are more likely to ask: is this still usable! Maybe that is the kind of environment we should really aspire to be comfortable in.

I think his question is better, though I don't think people are always of a mindset to ask: is this fulfilling some ultimate purpose. But if they are. Oh heck yea I could defend my book collection on those grounds! :laff:

But I think there are reasons minimalism as he would preach it has more aspiring than actual adherents. It's like being on a diet (ok actually way less annoying but anyway) and still having to reckon with the fact you have to eat. No people may not need to be non-minimalist, but they do live in a materialist culture, and they don't always have any clear cut answer to the consumerist part of oneself that asks: why can't I ever buy anything nice with the money I have earned? Or: is it ever ok to buy something nice when I don't absolutely need it just because I want it?

Does nice = joy? No that's actually is expecting too much of mere things.

Ultralight

9-14-17, 5:20pm

I don't think anything I have really sparks joy. Some items allow me to engage in activities that are joyful -- reading a great book, fishing on a Saturday morning in the rain, drinking a delightful La Croix. These all involve things -- some permanent possessions and some merely transient possessions. But the items themselves don't spark any kind of joy.

The minimalist who is supposedly addressing the very question of this thread is Take Fumio Sasaki.

Here is an article talking about him and his style of minimalism:

https://www.curbed.com/2017/4/13/15263860/minimalist-home-decluttering-goodbye-things-marie-kondo

Williamsmith

9-14-17, 5:55pm

Just off the top of my head....my little cast iron Griswold fry pan definitely sparked joy this morning. That cheese omelet was perfection. And my Gibson SG last night sparked joy when I finally got the instrumental down Jerry Garcia playing Bob Dylan's, " It Takes a A lot to Laugh, It Takes a Train to Cry." Yeah. Sparks Joy is fine with me. But I'll give it some thought.

herbgeek

9-14-17, 5:56pm

"does it spark joy" feels like asking me to have more of an emotional relationship with things than is simply there for most things with very few exceptions.

I couldn't get through the Marie Kondo book, because of this philosophy. The whole thanking your socks for their service thing....She just seemed so invested in these utilitarian THINGS. The description of a lot of the rituals she started as a child just made me think "this chick is whacked". Sorry, but my socks don't have feelings and aren't happy because I fold them "the right way".

catherine

9-14-17, 7:11pm

Ultralight, I read that article, and was intrigued about the book as well. The books I've seen written by ultra-minimalists (as opposed to organizers like Kondo), interestingly, all seem to be written by men. Do you think it's because women are the ones that 'feather the nest'?

His style appeals to me, as sparse as it is. Looking at that little mat on the floor with the white cover, and the empty table nearby made me go "ahhh.." It's not for everyone, I'm sure. But it reminds me of that little ramshackle (or should I say wabi sabi) shed that I stayed in a couple of months ago--whitewashed with just a bed and chair and night table. No internet, Bad phone signal. It was so peaceful.

Ultralight

9-14-17, 7:53pm

Williamsmith

9-14-17, 8:04pm

"Does it help me fulfill a greater purpose with my life?"

Kondo's trigger is much more minimalist. Heck, I don't think I could remember that phrase every time I considered whether to throw something away or not. I need something simple to help me make a choice. Reflecting on my greater purpose that many times might just make me question what my purpose even is, and I'd probably end up giving up de cluttering altogether.

Right now Im in the process of what I call " rescuing" older vintage items and replacing my plastic throwaway stuff with things meant to last and that give me joy. For instance, out with my Keurig.....in with my Farberware electric percolator or if I'm really relaxing...Pyrex glass percolator. Out with my teflon skillet....in wih my Griswold cast iron ware. Out with my Sony digital camera...in with my 35 mm Canon AE-1.

I don't know what that has to do with my purpose....but I know they give me joy. More joy to come when I replace that fiberglass ugly stick with a split bamboo fly rod.

Ultralight

9-14-17, 8:05pm

My purpose in life seems to be payin' da billz!

pony mom

9-14-17, 8:10pm

Looking at that little mat on the floor with the white cover,

That's what my bed looks like! I have a Japanese shikifuton too.

I think it's easier for a lot of men to live in a sparse home because many don't really care about decorating or how a place looks. Just the essentials. Me, I like to see art on the walls that I enjoy looking at and personal touches around the place. Much less stuff than I had before, but pared down to the joy sparking ones.

Does the dollhouse I've had for 25 years fulfill an ultimate purpose, or merely spark joy? Definitely sparks joy now, but will be a hassle years from now if I ever decide to get rid of it. Its ultimate purpose is perhaps to show me how creative and patient I was when I made it. (Gluing and painting over 900 shingles takes a lot of patience).

Being surrounded by things that make me happy works for me.

ApatheticNoMore

9-14-17, 8:11pm

I guess I don't read purpose that way as a single grandiose purpose, because it's doubtful I have one beyond paying bills either, but more as: does this line up with the things I value and want most in life, which I actually can relate to, far more so than to feelings of joy linked to things .... there are a few things maybe but most things are more useful than joyful.

Float On

9-15-17, 10:02am

I couldn't get through the Marie Kondo book, because of this philosophy. The whole thanking your socks for their service thing....She just seemed so invested in these utilitarian THINGS. The description of a lot of the rituals she started as a child just made me think "this chick is whacked". Sorry, but my socks don't have feelings and aren't happy because I fold them "the right way".

That right there is why I've never even picked up the book...and I had a lot of decluttering books at one time (yes, I decluttered them too).

JaneV2.0

9-15-17, 10:41am

A little of Kondo seems to go a long way, and I've never been tempted to read her book. But lots of my possessions bring me joy as I'm not a "people person" in the slightest, so perusing art books and fingering fabric and marveling at my thrift store finds is more satisfying to me than making small talk or listening to gossip. YMMV.

rosarugosa

9-15-17, 1:16pm

I'm going to go with "does it give me some level of enjoyment or is it useful?"

JaneV2.0

9-15-17, 1:48pm

I'm going to go with "does it give me some level of enjoyment or is it useful?"

Yeah, that's close enough. Satisfaction, enjoyment, contentment, happy thoughts.

Yppej

9-15-17, 7:34pm

Spark joy has worked at cutting down on purchases. I am not settling for okay.

dado potato

9-16-17, 1:26am

Instead of asking does this thing spark joy, I could ask 2 questions:
Is this thing useful to me?
Is this thing beautiful or pleasing to me?

If at least one question is answered "yes", then the thing survives the purge.

P.S. I would only purge my own stuff from my own space. If other people are involved, it would be necessary to ask if a thing is beautiful or useful to anybody in the group.

Oddball

9-23-17, 1:27pm

From the 9/18 New Yorker:

https://s26.postimg.org/cxt98n1rd/cartoon.jpg

rosarugosa

9-23-17, 2:19pm

Oddball: that is hilarious!