View Full Version : Rob's anti-America thread
Ultralight
10-4-17, 8:23pm
Rob, please use this thread when discussing your critiques of America! Thanks.
This will help simplify things and make it more organized.
That way threads, such as the one about Tom Petty, don't drift so far from the topic.
I'll make it a sticky if it would help to find it easily.
gimmethesimplelife
10-4-17, 8:37pm
I can remember a free Indian curry dinner I had in a small studio apartment in Bellingham, Washington with a young lady desperately trying to marry her way out of the US to a better country, in this case Canada. Even though I made it clear that I am/was batting on the other team, she continued to pump me for contacts.....I was not offended as I can totally understand the desperation behind her behavior and I think much more of this woman for both her practicality and her behavior. Suffice it to say, I get it, and have since I was 8 years old on this one. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
10-4-17, 8:44pm
I seriously don't understand Americans...seriously.....there is nothing at all Anti-American in my recent thread. If you would kindly understand that US decent paying jobs continue to be offshored to other countries, what exactly is wrong with EACH AND EVERY US citizen and permanent resident calmly calling out America for it's many citizenship deficiencies....to not do so is to be complicit in the deficiencies of America to begin with and I for one am not capable of such....no country gets a free ride as far as what's in it for each and every citizen in my book. Thankfully, I am not the only one who sees it this way. Rob
I'll make it a sticky if it would help to find it easily.
That would make it easier, but I don't think he can help himself.
Didn't someone say, Ask not what your country can do for you?, but what can you do for your country.
or something like that. What an idiot.
Ultralight
10-4-17, 8:49pm
I seriously don't understand Americans...seriously.....there is nothing at all Anti-American in my recent thread. If you would kindly understand that US decent paying jobs continue to be offshored to other countries, what exactly is wrong with EACH AND EVERY US citizen and permanent resident calmly calling out America for it's many citizenship deficiencies....to not do so is to be complicit in the deficiencies of America to begin with and I for one am not capable of such....no country gets a free ride as far as what's in it for each and every citizen in my book. Thankfully, I am not the only one who sees it this way. Rob
Rob:
America has problems! I know this. I have lobbied, voted, protested, and otherwise advocated to fix some of the problems (foreign policy, healthcare, workers' rights, etc.).
And I think those problems and their solutions are worth discussing. I even think that this thread is a potentially appropriate place. But I also think that this thread can serve as a place to discuss your particular concerns and your interesting perspectives.
Didn't someone say, Ask not what your country can do for you?, but what can you do for your country.
Yes but, as Yoda might say "The indoctrination is strong in this one."
Ultralight
10-4-17, 8:56pm
I actually think Rob plays a really important role on this forum. He is the whipping boy of several other members.
But more than that, he presents ideas in the extreme. And these make for lively discussions.
gimmethesimplelife
10-4-17, 8:56pm
Didn't someone say, Ask not what your country can do for you?, but what can you do for your country.
or something like that. What an idiot.Always, always, always ask and demand what the country that is currently renting you can do for you, not the other way around. Luckily, this was drilled into my head at the age of 7 (this one my Mom wanted me to grasp early with all the willing victims of the lack of socialized medicine surrounding us in rural New Hampshire at the time in the late 1970's). Rob
Ultralight
10-4-17, 8:59pm
Didn't someone say, Ask not what your country can do for you?, but what can you do for your country.
or something like that. What an idiot.
I think you should do right by your country and your country's government should do right by you in return. Give and take.
gimmethesimplelife
10-4-17, 8:59pm
Didn't someone say, Ask not what your country can do for you?, but what can you do for your country.
or something like that. What an idiot.You sir, and I say this kindly as I can, would be seen as an idiot by the bulk of the 85006 for your both pro-American and also lack of basic human rights stances. Throwing out your rhetoric is fine but don't be surprised that many in the 85006 find it both ridiculous and humorous (and in a very dark and cynical way from the many who know to live in fear of America and all that America truly is) Rob
Always, always, always ask and demand what the country that is currently renting you can do for you, not the other way around. Luckily, this was drilled into my head at the age of 7 (this one my Mom wanted me to grasp early with all the willing victim of the lack of socialized medicine surrounding us in rural New Hampshire at the time in the late 1970's. Rob
I'm interested in the concept of renting yourself out to a country, sort of like a mercenary I guess. In this case, what does the country get in return?
Rob was your mother a single parent? She seems to have had such a huge impact on you, and I can see why you have stayed in a country you dislike to care for her. It sounds like you were raised, You and Me Against the World.
Always, always, always ask and demand what the country that is currently renting you can do for you, not the other way around. Luckily, this was drilled into my head at the age of 7 (this one my Mom wanted me to grasp early with all the willing victims of the lack of socialized medicine surrounding us in rural New Hampshire at the time in the late 1970's). Rob
is there a rate chart somewhere? Is it based on zip code? Evidently my rent check has been lost in the mail.
You sir, and I say this kindly as I can, would be seen as an idiot by the bulk of the 85006 for your both pro-American and also lack of basic human rights stances. Throwing out your rhetoric is fine but don't be surprised that many in the 85006 find it both ridiculous and humorous (and in a very dark and cynical way from the many who know to live in fear of America and all that America truly is) Rob
I don't see myself as a victim. I couldn't care less what the 85006 thinks. I'm not impressed with a high crime and low income zip code. The bulk of the 85006 are not someone most in the country would want their children to immulate. How many from the 85006 fled from Mexico to live here? Why don't they leave?
Williamsmith
10-5-17, 1:56am
The “Ask not what...” inauguration phrase is classic Kennedy rhetoric which at the time was not embraced by all the country. But for different reasons than rob has noted. For me, my family was decidedly unexcepting of the thought that citizens were being encouraged to consider their highest moral responsibility was to serve the country. Individuality was much more important as was self sufficiency completely separate from some societal goal to achieve a great thing in unity. If you wanted that, Communism, was available for you.
Today that has been turned completely around to where families by generation have adopted the expectation that your country as represented by elected officials and government are here to make your life easier. My wife was escorting an elementary child with emotional support problems through the cafeteria line. His mother had in the past qualified for free lunch subsidy. This year she only qualified for partial subsidy. She had fallen behind in her payments and thus owed a significant amount. The child requested the casserole but the cafeteria worker placed a peanut butter and jelly sandwich on his plate because she was not allowed to serve the casserole to him. He looked at my wife and said ,”If Trump wasn’t President, I would get the casserole.”
Back when I was a kid, my response would have been, “If mom would pay her bill, I’d get the casserole.”
BikingLady
10-5-17, 4:42am
“If mom would pay her bill, I’d get the casserole.”
Interesting as growing up I never once got money for lunch at school and I so wanted it as sometimes it looked yummy. Mom would say there was bread/pb and j and an apple if you wanted to pack it. No way where they paying for a school lunch, could they afford it? possibly though that would have been waste of money. . So I never took a lunch. Dad (89) tells how lunch line had egg salad and apple can't remember anyone going through lunch line.
I survived. I am lost at the fact that school is responsible for the feeding of kids today. Ok hit me with wet noodle.
BikingLady
10-5-17, 4:50am
I notice this board is really not about simple living anymore. It is about every topic anyone wants to post about and that is ok. There used to be frugal board out there that was only frugal topics, but veered off course and now gone. Sometimes I wonder if this is the future of this board too.
Williamsmith
10-5-17, 6:29am
I notice this board is really not about simple living anymore. It is about every topic anyone wants to post about and that is ok. There used to be frugal board out there that was only frugal topics, but veered off course and now gone. Sometimes I wonder if this is the future of this board too.
Seems to me that would very limiting . I view it as a forum of Simple Living practitioners and advocates and we are not timid to discuss any topic in light of that world view.
goldensmom
10-5-17, 6:32am
I notice this board is really not about simple living anymore. It is about every topic anyone wants to post about and that is ok. There used to be frugal board out there that was only frugal topics, but veered off course and now gone. Sometimes I wonder if this is the future of this board too.
When I first joined this forum there were a lot of topics about simple/frugal living. Many good topics started and a lot of good information. Even if not simple living directly related they were lighthearted (many started by Mrs. M), informative and not as extreme and unkind as many comments have become. I miss that. I feel that this forum is becoming a place to get on a ‘soap box’ rather than sharing substantial, helpful information.
Ultralight
10-5-17, 7:56am
I don't see myself as a victim. I couldn't care less what the 85006 thinks. I'm not impressed with a high crime and low income zip code. The bulk of the 85006 are not someone most in the country would want their children to immulate. How many from the 85006 fled from Mexico to live here? Why don't they leave?
I used to live in the 85006 and there were reportedly many people who moved from Mexico for a better life in AZ. I actually worked directly with many immigrants. My job was working for a union of immigrant construction workers who were all born in Mexico and emigrated to the US.
One of my colleagues said: "You make much more money here!"
And another said: "In Mexico, if I wanted to buy a pizza dinner for my whole family, that was a special treat. Here I can get us pizza anytime I want."
These sorts of statements were a constant. None of my colleagues ever said they wanted to go back to Mexico, nor did they say anything bad about America. They usually just talked about getting their papers and having citizenship.
I used to live in the 85006 and there were reportedly many people who moved from Mexico for a better life in AZ. I actually worked directly with many immigrants. My job was working for a union of immigrant construction workers who were all born in Mexico and emigrated to the US.
One of my colleagues said: "You make much more money here!"
And another said: "In Mexico, if I wanted to buy a pizza dinner for my whole family, that was a special treat. Here I can get us pizza anytime I want."
These sorts of statements were a constant. None of my colleagues ever said they wanted to go back to Mexico, nor did they say anything bad about America. They usually just talked about getting their papers and having citizenship.
Alan, I truly do not understand why this thread exists as titled. Why is it not "Ultralight's anti-Rob thread"? Since when does someone get to start a thread for someone else, putting words in their mouth?
This seems like ganging up on someone to mock them. I am really bothered by this, frankly.
Alan, I truly do not understand why this thread exists as titled.
I'm not in the habit of censoring others or approving threads. It always ends up inflaming someone and becomes a huge headache.
I do appreciate the fact that someone made an effort to divert another members propensity to turn completely unrelated threads to a critique of America. If Rob feels that he is being unfairly called out I will be happy to suggest a change in title and assist in editing it.
Rob posted to the thread I started about Tom Petty with comments that were then moved to a thread he did not start. That seemed to me to be a form of censorship, by discouraging him to share what he wanted to share in the Tom Petty thread.
I understand that many are irritated by Rob's comments, but taking them and putting them in a "ghettoized thread--here is the only place you are allowed to post these thoughts" seems wrong to me.
That is what I meant.
Rob posted to the thread I started about Tom Petty with comments that were then moved to a thread he did not start. That seemed to me to be a form of censorship, by discouraging him to share what he wanted to share in the Tom Petty thread.
I understand that many are irritated by Rob's comments, but taking them and putting them in a "ghettoized thread--here is the only place you are allowed to post these thoughts" seems wrong to me.
That is what I meant.
One comment was moved to a more appropriate thread in an effort to preserve the continuity of the original thread. Rob's extreme take on America always provokes a strong response, it would be unfair to you to disrupt your thread any further.
In a baseball game, if there are multiple umpires behind the catcher, there may be disagreements about each pitch's proximity to the strike zone. Being an umpire sucks.
Ultralight
10-5-17, 9:03am
Alan, I truly do not understand why this thread exists as titled. Why is it not "Ultralight's anti-Rob thread"? Since when does someone get to start a thread for someone else, putting words in their mouth?
This seems like ganging up on someone to mock them. I am really bothered by this, frankly.
Have you read my flippin' comments on this thread?!?! I am not anti-Rob.
I disagree with Rob on some issues, but I am not anti-Rob. Read my comments on this thread.
Read. My. Comments.
SteveinMN
10-5-17, 10:11am
Rob posted to the thread I started about Tom Petty with comments that were then moved to a thread he did not start. That seemed to me to be a form of censorship, by discouraging him to share what he wanted to share in the Tom Petty thread.
I understand that many are irritated by Rob's comments, but taking them and putting them in a "ghettoized thread--here is the only place you are allowed to post these thoughts" seems wrong to me.
That is what I meant.
As someone who has been an Admin in several other forums, I can empathize with Alan's position. Beyond the post in which Rob associated hearing Petty's music with where he was at the time, that thread took a substantial veer off-topic. Part of an admin's job is to keep threads on-topic. Extended discussion of political stances, relegating discussion of Petty's death (or anything musical) to insignificance, is off-topic. An Admin has a choice: ignore off-topic content for extended times, therefore allowing any and all future threads to be similarly bowdlerized -- or do something about it.
In this case, UL took action and Alan, true to my experience here on SLF, has taken his -- pardon the word choice and I do not mean this in any negative sense -- libertarian approach to thread management. Personally, I find the thread to be duplicative of others in the Open Forum. But it will live or die on its own. The Admin's alternative, IMHO, was to stop the conversation in the Petty thread, which, I think, would be more directly interpreted as "censorship".
Though I don't understand/agree with Rob's point of view, it's fine with me that he believes it. But I don't want to see discussion of that PoV in threads that have nothing to do with it. I've quit participating in threads which started or have turned in the direction of Rob's PoV; frankly out of a personal belief that anger is not a stopping place. My choice. But allowing that discussion in non-associated threads reduces the value of this forum to me and, as a result, my participation. Maybe no one else cares about that. But I do. I think the action taken so far is far more amenable than other choices which could have been made.
Thanks, Steve and Alan, I see your point now; I did not before.
iris lilies
10-5-17, 10:27am
A discussion about why we live where we live (neighborhood, city, state, country) is good and actually ties in to simple
living very much. What do we want out of life and how does the place we live support that?
Many of us here are contemplating a move, not all to another country however (but my new dream place is Alba Lulia, Romania, haha) so always a good topic.
A rigid, narrowly focused, repeated ad nauseum view that America is bad for two or three reaons isnt of interest to me having 1) heard it about a zillion times and 2) disrespect for the realities it ignores.
A discussion about why we live where we live (neighborhood, city, state, country) is good and actually ties in to simple
living very much. What do we want out of life and how does the place we live support that?
Many of us here are contemplating a move, not all to another country however (but my new dream place is Alba Lulia, Romania, haha) so always a good topic..
IL, I like your idea for a new thread about this! Maybe you could start one! I am always thinking about living someplace different, as are many of us. I would like to hear more about Romania, too.
If Rob wants to set up a quasi-blog like WS's "Daily Bread" thread (which I rather like), I don't think anyone would have a problem with that. I don't see a need for the rest of us to quarantine him, however. Nobody's forced to read his posts.
I do like IL's idea about hearing people's various current or aspirational choice of places to live. I think that would be extremely interesting.
Teacher Terry
10-5-17, 12:54pm
I would love to live in Poland from May-oct every year. The country is beautiful and the cost of living very low. However, I have 3 dogs so that is not going to happen. My DIL is from Poland and was a teacher there. She can't teach here as we don't recognize her degree. She wasn't looking to leave Poland but just happened to meet my son and the rest is history. She kept her citizenship although she became a citizen here too. They wanted to keep their options open and she uses her free healthcare when she goes home. She says that even with Poland's LCOL they are better off here. Even with her working an unskilled job. Wages there are low and jobs are scarce. There is no utopia. My secretary was raised by a Dad that had extreme views on certain subjects and even today at age 65 she still quotes him. I never wanted to mold my kids into what I believed but wanted them to develop there own beliefs.
I didn't read the original post, but I get the drift from reading the follow-ups.
Maybe barrios have changed with time and La Migra. My SO was raised in the 91950 before it had a zip code, and he has nothing but wonderful memories of life in National City. No one in his family knows if his father came to this country legally and no one cares. As the song goes "those were the days."
He does have a memory of being stopped by the police when he was coming home after curfew from his job at a bowling alley. The officer gave him a ride home in his squad car and delivered him to his mother. That probably wouldn't be done now.
I don't doubt that there is (justified) fear and loathing in the 85006, and I'm pretty pessimistic about the direction the country is going under this gang of mean-spirited plutocrats, but I can't help but think there is a lot of joy still to be had. I'd focus on that. No place in the world is without problems.
Ultralight
10-5-17, 5:03pm
I do like IL's idea about hearing people's various current or aspirational choice of places to live. I think that would be extremely interesting.
+1
Baldilocks
10-5-17, 6:47pm
I notice this board is really not about simple living anymore. It is about every topic anyone wants to post about and that is ok. There used to be frugal board out there that was only frugal topics, but veered off course and now gone. Sometimes I wonder if this is the future of this board too.
I spent most my time reading this forum before I finally posted, but unfortunately I agree with BikingLady. The reason I started looking into simple living, is because of a thread in a bicycle forum, under living car free titled how simply do you live? I've always desired simple living. But reading about it solidifies it. To me simple living is about peace and harmony. It's about contentment. It's about working hard, playing hard and not working yourself to death. It's about doing better and bringing others along as well. As far as anti-America, my belief teaches me to, "seek the welfare of the city where I have sent you into exile, and pray to the LORD on its behalf, for in its welfare you will find your welfare." Amen. God Bless America
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