Thinking I might retire on 12/1!

[rosarugosa]

My goal was to retire at 62, but I just might pull the trigger now, suddenly and unexpectedly. There are two major factors at work here. First of all, I used to enjoy my job, but this past year has really sucked and I am not having a good time in the least. I'm working 10 -11 hours a day, and still don't feel like I am ever getting ahead. I like the people I work with, but I'm not enjoying my work anymore, and it just feels like an endless purgatory of meetings and relentless e-mails. Secondly, our health plan is changing very much for the worse on 1/1/18 for both active employees and retirees, but those who retire by 12/1/17 can keep the 2017 PPO plan. If I retire now, my pension will be less, but if I work until 62, my pension gains will be more than offset by increased OOP medical expenses. My company has a tradition of letting retirees stay with the plan they have at the time of retirement (although naturally the price tag keeps going up, just like for active employees). There is never a guarantee of this, but that is how it has always worked in the past.
I am 59.5, so I can start taking distributions from my 401k without penalty.
Looking at our current net income and expenses, we can replace all but $600./month with a combination of the following:

4% 401k distribution
DH's part-time job pay
DH can take early pension from former FT job
My pension
A couple of very minor tweaks to our spending


I figure I can get a part-time job closer to home, very possibly at the hospital where DH works. They have lots of positions posted. I want to do something simple and straight-forward that feels productive. I don't want to go to meetings anymore!
Once I hit 62, I will have my CD ladder maturing and that would be more than enough to plug that $600/month gap from age 62 to 65, and once I'm 65 my health care costs should decrease due to medicare eligibility. I'm hoping to wait until 67+ to start SS and collect the full benefit.
I"m not a risk-taker by nature, and I've always had steady employment with this same employer (I've been there for 39 years). My DH is supportive of the move. Any thoughts or input? I kind of feel like I'm not quite ready, but realize I might always feel like I'm not quite ready. And in other regards, I am more than ready!

[JaneV2.0]

I can't imagine a scenario wherein you'll regret bailing out now.
Retirement is a sweet, sweet event--the sooner, the better, IMO.

[catherine]

If there is ONLY a $600 gap that you can easily plug with a part time job if you want to, I say go for it! Why wait??

[Gardnr]

JUMP:cool: You've identified that work/life balance is gone! You've demonstrated here a great deal of thought and analysis. You've shown yourself what you can financially accomplish.

Take some time off for a really good break to reflect and replenish your soul. Getting a part time gig after 3-6 months away, will give you that outlet for the joy of working. Think of it as a sabbatical!

[herbgeek]

That is just darn awesome Rosa! Time to do what you love, while you are still healthy and can enjoy it, is priceless.

[Teacher Terry]

I think you would be crazy not to do it:)) So happy that you have this opportunity. It won't take much to earn 600/month plus working p.t. will be great.

[nswef]

Yes, do it! You've planned, thought it through and are capable of living simply. You will be SO happy.

[Yppej]

If you've already given up supervising the admin staff but are still having so much work dumped on you then you are making the right choice.

[Tybee]

It sounds wonderful, Rosa-- December 1--that is so soon! Well done in the planning department!

[JaneV2.0]

I don't need to say this, if I'm reading your post correctly, but follow your instincts on this. They're rarely (if ever) wrong.

[flowerseverywhere]

Sounds great except make sure you truly understand Medicare. It is an 80/20 plan and is not free drug coverage is a separate section. Check it out very carefully. Most people buy a supplemental insurance and who knows what that will be in six years.

[razz]

For peace of mind, take a good look for a job near home and then decide for sure. Sounds like a safe bet.

[iris lilies]

My goal was to retire at 62, but I just might pull the trigger now, suddenly and unexpectedly. There are two major factors at work here. First of all, I used to enjoy my job, but this past year has really sucked and I am not having a good time in the least. I'm working 10 -11 hours a day, and still don't feel like I am ever getting ahead. I like the people I work with, but I'm not enjoying my work anymore, and it just feels like an endless purgatory of meetings and relentless e-mails. Secondly, our health plan is changing very much for the worse on 1/1/18 for both active employees and retirees, but those who retire by 12/1/17 can keep the 2017 PPO plan. If I retire now, my pension will be less, but if I work until 62, my pension gains will be more than offset by increased OOP medical expenses. My company has a tradition of letting retirees stay with the plan they have at the time of retirement (although naturally the price tag keeps going up, just like for active employees). There is never a guarantee of this, but that is how it has always worked in the past.
I am 59.5, so I can start taking distributions from my 401k without penalty.
Looking at our current net income and expenses, we can replace all but $600./month with a combination of the following:

4% 401k distribution
DH's part-time job pay
DH can take early pension from former FT job
My pension
A couple of very minor tweaks to our spending


I figure I can get a part-time job closer to home, very possibly at the hospital where DH works. They have lots of positions posted. I want to do something simple and straight-forward that feels productive. I don't want to go to meetings anymore!
Once I hit 62, I will have my CD ladder maturing and that would be more than enough to plug that $600/month gap from age 62 to 65, and once I'm 65 my health care costs should decrease due to medicare eligibility. I'm hoping to wait until 67+ to start SS and collect the full benefit.
I"m not a risk-taker by nature, and I've always had steady employment with this same employer (I've been there for 39 years). My DH is supportive of the move. Any thoughts or input? I kind of feel like I'm not quite ready, but realize I might always feel like I'm not quite ready. And in other regards, I am more than ready!

I am not clear on your health care i surance plan. "Letting you keep" your current health care plan (bringing up the spectre of a past President, haha) means what for paying for it? Do you pay for it or do they, or is a it a combination? I'm sure you have investigated the cost, but it can be significant if you are payng the bill.

Here, I am not confident that $600/month is easy to make for senior citizens getting a job. But you are in a highly populated, different environment so you know the job market there better than I know it.

All of that said, good for you, you are probably ready to retire. I kicked that job thang to the curb when I was 60.

[Lainey]

If there is ONLY a $600 gap that you can easily plug with a part time job if you want to, I say go for it! Why wait??

+1

[Williamsmith]

My goal was to retire at 62, but I just might pull the trigger now, suddenly and unexpectedly. There are two major factors at work here. First of all, I used to enjoy my job, but this past year has really sucked and I am not having a good time in the least. I'm working 10 -11 hours a day, and still don't feel like I am ever getting ahead. I like the people I work with, but I'm not enjoying my work anymore, and it just feels like an endless purgatory of meetings and relentless e-mails. Secondly, our health plan is changing very much for the worse on 1/1/18 for both active employees and retirees, but those who retire by 12/1/17 can keep the 2017 PPO plan. If I retire now, my pension will be less, but if I work until 62, my pension gains will be more than offset by increased OOP medical expenses. My company has a tradition of letting retirees stay with the plan they have at the time of retirement (although naturally the price tag keeps going up, just like for active employees). There is never a guarantee of this, but that is how it has always worked in the past.
I am 59.5, so I can start taking distributions from my 401k without penalty.
Looking at our current net income and expenses, we can replace all but $600./month with a combination of the following:

4% 401k distribution
DH's part-time job pay
DH can take early pension from former FT job
My pension
A couple of very minor tweaks to our spending


I figure I can get a part-time job closer to home, very possibly at the hospital where DH works. They have lots of positions posted. I want to do something simple and straight-forward that feels productive. I don't want to go to meetings anymore!
Once I hit 62, I will have my CD ladder maturing and that would be more than enough to plug that $600/month gap from age 62 to 65, and once I'm 65 my health care costs should decrease due to medicare eligibility. I'm hoping to wait until 67+ to start SS and collect the full benefit.
I"m not a risk-taker by nature, and I've always had steady employment with this same employer (I've been there for 39 years). My DH is supportive of the move. Any thoughts or input? I kind of feel like I'm not quite ready, but realize I might always feel like I'm not quite ready. And in other regards, I am more than ready!

”Secondly, our health plan is changing very much for the worse on 1/1/18 for both active employees and retirees, but those who retire by 12/1/17 can keep the 2017 PPO plan. If I retire now, my pension will be less, but if I work until 62, my pension gains will be more than offset by increased OOP medical expenses. My company has a tradition of letting retirees stay with the plan they have at the time of retirement (although naturally the price tag keeps going up, just like for active employees). There is never a guarantee of this, but that is how it has always worked in the past.”

There must be a contradiction in here somewhere.....so your health plan is changing very much for the worse for both active and retirees..............you are going to retire early and sacrifice pension gains because you feel “locking in” lower medical expenses is more valuable. But didn’t you just say retirees are having their healthcare plan change for the worse?

62 seems to be the magic number you planned for.....would it be a waste of money to hire a financial planner / retirement counselor to give you a second opinion before you sign the papers?

[iris lilies]

”Secondly, our health plan is changing very much for the worse on 1/1/18 for both active employees and retirees, but those who retire by 12/1/17 can keep the 2017 PPO plan. If I retire now, my pension will be less, but if I work until 62, my pension gains will be more than offset by increased OOP medical expenses. My company has a tradition of letting retirees stay with the plan they have at the time of retirement (although naturally the price tag keeps going up, just like for active employees). There is never a guarantee of this, but that is how it has always worked in the past.”

There must be a contradiction in here somewhere.....so your health plan is changing very much for the worse for both active and retirees..............you are going to retire early and sacrifice pension gains because you feel “locking in” lower medical expenses is more valuable. But didn’t you just say retirees are having their healthcare plan change for the worse?

62 seems to be the magic number you planned for.....would it be a waste of money to hire a financial planner / retirement counselor to give you a second opinion before you sign the papers?

She says that if she retires before the health insurance change (12/1/2017) she thinks she can keep her current plan. Thus, the 12/1/2017 date.

I would also ask: is your current plan really so sacred? I dont know how much the OP uses health care services but unless it is specialized care, I am not sure that is worth much.

[Tybee]

”Secondly, our health plan is changing very much for the worse on 1/1/18 for both active employees and retirees, but those who retire by 12/1/17 can keep the 2017 PPO plan. If I retire now, my pension will be less, but if I work until 62, my pension gains will be more than offset by increased OOP medical expenses. My company has a tradition of letting retirees stay with the plan they have at the time of retirement (although naturally the price tag keeps going up, just like for active employees). There is never a guarantee of this, but that is how it has always worked in the past.”

There must be a contradiction in here somewhere.....so your health plan is changing very much for the worse for both active and retirees..............you are going to retire early and sacrifice pension gains because you feel “locking in” lower medical expenses is more valuable. But didn’t you just say retirees are having their healthcare plan change for the worse?

62 seems to be the magic number you planned for.....would it be a waste of money to hire a financial planner / retirement counselor to give you a second opinion before you sign the papers?

I took this to mean that if she retires BEFORE 1/1, she can get in on the old retirement plan, and the higher cost plan is for post 1/1 retirees, not pre 1/1/18 retirees.

I like the idea of a financial planner, but they may push you to stay. Iris Lily's post got me thinking-if you have to make up a 600 shortfall for two years, would that mean making enough to come up with 600 dollars more a month--so more like 1000 a month before taxes and savings? That would be hard for me to do here. Menards is paying 11 dollars a hour. So I think that would be 22 hours a week or so? Plus commuting, etc. bringing it up to 27 hours a week. Don't know what the hospital pays; I tried getting jobs in hospitals and never had any luck.

Are you then looking at lower paid part time job for 2 years? Would quitting make that the new reality?

I went to parttime with same employer when my health was shot from full time there. Last year I made a fourth of what I made full time, and still worked a lot.

[Williamsmith]

I guess that my thought was ....it is a big IF ....to assume the healthcare plan will always remain the same without any significant changes. I understand that the employer has already provided the heads up that the healthcare plans will be less desirable going forward for current employees and what OP has now will not be available. Seems like this might inspire others to consider early retirement which might be what the employer is looking for anyway.

As as far as supplemental part time work.....my first part time job after retirement paid one fourth what my full time job did. My second one paid approximately one third but it was seasonal so I went without income for half the year. I could have gotten a part time or even full time job that paid half in the same field as my full time but then I decided...what the heck is the sense in that?

I still think having someone crunch the numbers and provide you honest unbiased feedback would be valuable given the enormity of this decision. I’d be looking for some confirmation that this is the way to go....and then I’d plunge in without looking back.

[frugal-one]

My first thought is ... your health is more important! But, it may be wise to see what a fee-based financial planner thinks???? I was happy I did this before retiring. He actually showed me a few things I could do differently. It also validated that I was doing the right thing!

[rosarugosa]

Some clarifying points:
DH has some significant health issues. Current plan has $600. deductible and $3000 OOP maximum. New plan will have $3000 dedt and $8000 OOP max.
As an active employee, I'm paying about $300/month for our medical ins. My cost as a retiree would be $934, plus $60. for dental (I forget what I'm paying currently for dental).
If I retire by 12/1, I can keep the plan with the $600 dedt and $3000 OOP through 2018. Not sure what 2019 will bring (well I'm pretty sure it won't be anything better as far as health ins goes!)
We live in a high population area with a robust job market. I'm currently putting in about a 65 hour workweek with the commute. The hospital where my husband works got all excited when he applied for a transport job and assured them he could pass a criminal check. I think I might like to apply for the Support Associate job which sounds like my dream job at this stage of my life:

Support Associate 24hrs/wk day shift
Description

Functions as a team member on a patient care unit with overall supervision by the registered nurse and unit nurse director. In conjunction with other team members provides a friendly, comfortable and supportive environment for the patient during their hospital stay. Provides support services to direct care givers and patients through assuring a clean and ready environment, patient call light response, stocking and environmental support. Duties directly related to patients are provided with direction from RN. Essential duties include some meal tray delivery, cleaning equipment, delivering and stocking supplies, and maintaining the unit environment meets safety standards.

Qualifications

Required:
Ability to concentrate and pay attention. Ability to read and write English. Must see, hear and speak well. Must be able to deal with different types of personalities and people with different cultural backgrounds. Also must be able to work with people who are different ages. Basic Computer Skills.
Preferred:
No prior experience necessary; however, some regular work experience preferred.
High school graduation/equivalence preferred.

According to DH, a lot of these part-time, non-medical jobs at the hospital hire older workers as well as younger workers. A lot of folks do them as side gigs, there are some teachers, some students and some work there just for the benefits, and make their real money doing something else. We're also within walking distance of a mall and a lot of retail stores, and the 7-11 across the road is always looking for help. If I hated it, I could just quit. :)

[Tybee]

The support person job sounds wonderful! Why not go ahead and apply and see what happens--after all, December 1 is only 6 weeks away!

[Float On]

I did the support person job as a Volunteen in high school and loved it. I answered all the call buttons and determined if I could assist the patient or needed a floor nurse or aid. I fetched blankets, pillows, helped fill out meal plans, fetched snacks and even read to some patients or just visited the ones without visitors. It was really rewarding. I would definitely go for that over 7-11! Congrats on being able to set a retirement date!

[rosarugosa]

OK you guys, I have looked at the numbers every way possible, and I've determined that it is not fiscally prudent for me to retire now. This made me pretty sad initially, but I'm OK with it at this point. I'm going to continue to shoot for 5/1/20, and I plan to do everything possible to maximize my savings between now and then. Really putting myself in the retirement mindset should help with frugality - will I be kicking myself tomorrow for this frivolous purchase today?
I do have a lot of good things going for me at my job: ability to work from home 2 days per week, nice co-workers and a good manager, pleasant work environment. I get a pension and 401k and medical/dental/life, annual bonus plan and a decent salary. My earning capacity is not likely to improve after retirement - if I'm short of money when I'm 75, it's unlikely that I would be able to go out and earn anything near what I'm earning now. So that's that for now, but you can expect to see more action from me on the Frugals Forum!

[flowerseverywhere]

OK you guys, I have looked at the numbers every way possible, and I've determined that it is not fiscally prudent for me to retire now. This made me pretty sad initially, but I'm OK with it at this point. I'm going to continue to shoot for 5/1/20, and I plan to do everything possible to maximize my savings between now and then. Really putting myself in the retirement mindset should help with frugality - will I be kicking myself tomorrow for this frivolous purchase today?
I do have a lot of good things going for me at my job: ability to work from home 2 days per week, nice co-workers and a good manager, pleasant work environment. I get a pension and 401k and medical/dental/life, annual bonus plan and a decent salary. My earning capacity is not likely to improve after retirement - if I'm short of money when I'm 75, it's unlikely that I would be able to go out and earn anything near what I'm earning now. So that's that for now, but you can expect to see more action from me on the Frugals Forum!

Do what is best for you. Agree about the 75 remark. I know many retired people working part time. Few make much more than minimum wage.

[razz]

Rosarugosa, I wen through the exact same exercise in 2003/4 leading to my retirement. You now have a clear direction, a plan and a goal. That is a significant achievement.

May I suggest that you take the next few years to also explore what you plan to do post-work schedule? Too few people do this and then decline rapidly mentally, emotionally and physically. They seem to think that retirement from work also means retirement from active living and contributing all one's talents and skills to the world around them. Self-centred living with just travel and medical appointments is often the result. Really sad to see.
I have a friend at 96 still driving, volunteering, and feisty. I take her to play cards in local community groups. She is my inspiration .

[Williamsmith]

OK you guys, I have looked at the numbers every way possible, and I've determined that it is not fiscally prudent for me to retire now. This made me pretty sad initially, but I'm OK with it at this point. I'm going to continue to shoot for 5/1/20, and I plan to do everything possible to maximize my savings between now and then. Really putting myself in the retirement mindset should help with frugality - will I be kicking myself tomorrow for this frivolous purchase today?
I do have a lot of good things going for me at my job: ability to work from home 2 days per week, nice co-workers and a good manager, pleasant work environment. I get a pension and 401k and medical/dental/life, annual bonus plan and a decent salary. My earning capacity is not likely to improve after retirement - if I'm short of money when I'm 75, it's unlikely that I would be able to go out and earn anything near what I'm earning now. So that's that for now, but you can expect to see more action from me on the Frugals Forum!

It sounds like you did your due diligence and made a decision based on the best path to take.......for the moment. Things could change and I’m sure you will be re evaluating as you go along. The work you put into this process was very valuable to your future. You will be more informed, be able to rightly decide the importance of each variable and it will feel right with your soul when it is time. It could be 5/1/20 or it could be tomorrow. Keep the logistics front and center but don’t separate yourself from your convictions. You have impressed me with the way you went about this. I salute you.

[Williamsmith]

Rosarugosa, I wen through the exact same exercise in 2003/4 leading to my retirement. You now have a clear direction, a plan and a goal. That is a significant achievement.

May I suggest that you take the next few years to also explore what you plan to do post-work schedule? Too few people do this and then decline rapidly mentally, emotionally and physically. They seem to think that retirement from work also means retirement from active living and contributing all one's talents and skills to the world around them. Self-centred living with just travel and medical appointments is often the result. Really sad to see.
I have a friend at 96 still driving, volunteering, and feisty. I take her to play cards in local community groups. She is my inspiration .

This is wonderful advice. In my field of work, mandatory retirement age is 60. But many retire long before that. My magic numbers were 25 years service and 51 years of age. I crunched the numbers with a financial advisor and determined that remaining at work after reaching those magic numbers meant continued stress, enhanced exposure to disease and stress related illnesses, and working for basic minimum wage. To me a no brainer. But what to do after that?

I took a test designed to predict how I would adjust to retirement. Based on my interests, activity level, current involvement in outside interests, and toleration of self motivational lifestyle. I scored very high. I also had no trouble finding employment to supplement my need to socialize and be productive. The hospital job Rosarugosa mentioned seems ideal.

[Tybee]

It sounds like you have done some excellent thinking on this, and reached a frugally sound conclusion! It must have been a tough call, given that each option had so many pluses.

[rosarugosa]

Thanks everyone. I really appreciate the support and I agree that it has been a valuable exercise. It made it seem less theoretical somehow.
Razz, I definitely want retirement to be the beginning of a "next act" and not just an ending. I want to volunteer with the local cat rescue group and help maintain the Lynn Woods Rose Garden. I would like to join the town's tree committee; I've been to a few of their gatherings.

[frugal-one]

Rosarugosa, I wen through the exact same exercise in 2003/4 leading to my retirement. You now have a clear direction, a plan and a goal. That is a significant achievement.

May I suggest that you take the next few years to also explore what you plan to do post-work schedule? Too few people do this and then decline rapidly mentally, emotionally and physically. They seem to think that retirement from work also means retirement from active living and contributing all one's talents and skills to the world around them. Self-centred living with just travel and medical appointments is often the result. Really sad to see.
I have a friend at 96 still driving, volunteering, and feisty. I take her to play cards in local community groups. She is my inspiration .

For those of us who have given our all for all of our working lives and worked to help the world .... DESERVE to travel and do what we want. It is now time to be "self-centered." YOU may now want to contribute and volunteer. I contributed to society all of my working life. Now is my time. I have many people say I should do this or that. My response is... "I don't want a job!" They always reply... "This is not a job." If it demands I be at a certain place at a certain time... it is a job to me. I deserve to spend my time the way I see fit. I already put in my time! There is so much to do and learn. There is no reason to decline in any way.

[Yppej]

Frugal-one it reads like you are saying only people who worked in helping professions deserve to kick back and enjoy retirement.

[Gardnr]

Frugal-one it reads like you are saying only people who worked in helping professions deserve to kick back and enjoy retirement.

I didn't perceive it all that way. He was replying to the quotation he included. That quote made it sound like retirement must include volunteering. I concur with Frugal-one. I too am in a helping profession-giving 110% every working hour is mentally, emotionally and physically exhausting.

I don't think volunteering should be an expectation of anyone in retirement. It is awesome that the opportunity is there for everyone who wants it. I see myself volunteering at something at some point, but for me? I'm taking a long bit of "time off" before i even consider it. I have a list longer than my arm of activities I want to do when I stop paid employment.

[iris lilies]

We volunteer all the time, but I dont view that as helping society, primarily
I view it as doing interesting stuff.

That work is for me, not for thee, you see. :~)

[Tammy]

After 20 years as a pastor's wife, and now 20 years as a nurse, I totally agree about people in helping professions really needing to do only what they want to do in their time off. I imagine retirement should be the same way.

Once I stopped going to church, working in the nursery, teaching Bible school, spending every night at various church functions, I was a lot happier. I finally learned that my 40 to 50 hours as a nurse drained me emotionally, and my time off needs to be all about me.

[Tammy]

In that same thought might apply to people working any career 50 hours a week. It's time that it's taking away from doing what you really want to do. But I do imagine that it would be simpler to have a job where I don't interact with any people because of the emotional drain that happens in those helping professions.

[LDAHL]

In that same thought might apply to people working any career 50 hours a week. It's time that it's taking away from doing what you really want to do. But I do imagine that it would be simpler to have a job where I don't interact with any people because of the emotional drain that happens in those helping professions.

That's very true. I think pretty much any gainful employment "contributes to the world". It's not magic elves who pay the salaries of the "helping professions". It's the taxes and charitable contributions of mortgage underwriters, air traffic controllers and used car salespeople. If someone doesn't want to help others, that's their own personal decision. But it's the same decision for everybody. There is no professionally based moral elite.

[Williamsmith]

I struggle with this volunteer concept. On the one hand, you all are right....you do have to take personal time. But I see how organizations which rely on volunteers can suffer due to the lack of willing participants. Volunteer fire departments stand out as a prime example to me.

While I was working I managed to squeeze in 10 years of coaching baseball, a deacon in a local church, a lay minister who visited grieving people and a scout leader.

Now that I am retired and living in a condo community, I have the board of directors trying to shame me into serving as volunteer maintenance director. I flat out told them to go pound salt. My phone doesn’t get answered ...everything goes to voicemail. I don’t answer to anyone, don’t get compensated so am not beholding to anyone’s sense of control and I don’t particularly enjoy interacting with other humans unless it is on my terms.

I don’t think they believe me when I tell them that I have little patience to deal with problems, have a temper that suffers fools up to a point but snaps like a hair trigger. In other words, I feel I’ve done more than my share. Don’t poke sticks at the sleeping bear.

[iris lilies]

Well William, you bring up jobs that must be done such as Firefighters and condo maintenance. It is ia tricky thing to base Must Do jobs on the back of a volunteer.

My volunteer dealings are more in the realm of "these jobs are nice if someone does them, but lives are not lost/babies dont die if they are not done. So, I view these volunteer efforts in my realm as if the job really needs done, they will come to do it, and if no one cmes to so it perhaps it doesnt really need to be done.

This week I signed up to work at the Missouri Botanical Gardens. I have a very specific job in mind: I want to deadhead iris during bloom season. i love cleaning up flower stalks and making them neat and tidy during bloom season. But in order to get to that job I will have to put in some time weeding the beds and etc. so that the supervisor knows I am trustworthy to allow free reign in the iris Beds next spring.

[Chicken lady]

My father otoh worked 43 years in a for profit customer service/sales oriented job he hated. He briefly assisted with my brother’s scout troop and he refereed high school football (because he is a former high school player who loved the game and my brother and I did not - he attended only games he reffed and required meetings, nothing social) He was an antisocial introvert.

now in retirement he is the church treasurer, a small business coach and accounts auditor who gets “paid” with the occasional company t-shirt or hat, mentor to a young single father, a volunteer at the soup kitchen, and a fantastic chef who hosts friends for dinner parties and weekend visits. I think his job was so draining he didn’t have anything left for “helping”. He offered to teach math (he has an engineering degree and was willing to take any required tests) at the local high school for free, but they told him that was illegal.

[Williamsmith]

Well William, you bring up jobs that must be done such as Firefighters and condo maintenance. It is ia tricky thing to base Must Do jobs on the back of a volunteer.

My volunteer dealings are more in the realm of "these jobs are nice if someone does them, but lives are not lost/babies dont die if they are not done. So, I view these volunteer efforts in my realm as if the job really needs done, they will come to do it, and if no one cmes to so it perhaps it doesnt really need to be done.

The fire department example is one that is playing out in my neck of the woods. Fewer and fewer younger people are stepping up to train and respond to emergencies in rural areas that can not afford to man a paid department. There is a growing pool of retirees who are still physically able to volunteer but a lot of them are like me.....been there done that.

Now in the case of the Maintenance Director, it is a job that has to be done but the people it serves are plenty capable of paying someone to do it. That some one needs to be a non resident to avoid conflict of interest. Many have second homes they maintain, drive high end SUVs, have restored muscle cars parked in storage facilities that they drive a few times a year and have a $100,000 plus RV they tool around in. Yet they want to cheap out and force someone to attend to their maintenance issues on a volunteer basis. Sometimes rich....is stupid.

[nswef]

Frugal one I understand your need to just do what you want in retirement. When your job/career involved your heart and soul, retirement is to recover that heart and soul.

[frugal-one]

I didn't perceive it all that way. He was replying to the quotation he included. That quote made it sound like retirement must include volunteering. I concur with Frugal-one. I too am in a helping profession-giving 110% every working hour is mentally, emotionally and physically exhausting.

I don't think volunteering should be an expectation of anyone in retirement. It is awesome that the opportunity is there for everyone who wants it. I see myself volunteering at something at some point, but for me? I'm taking a long bit of "time off" before i even consider it. I have a list longer than my arm of activities I want to do when I stop paid employment.

This is what I meant. It is NOT sad if we choose to do what we want!

[frugal-one]

I struggle with this volunteer concept. On the one hand, you all are right....you do have to take personal time. But I see how organizations which rely on volunteers can suffer due to the lack of willing participants. Volunteer fire departments stand out as a prime example to me.

While I was working I managed to squeeze in 10 years of coaching baseball, a deacon in a local church, a lay minister who visited grieving people and a scout leader.

Now that I am retired and living in a condo community, I have the board of directors trying to shame me into serving as volunteer maintenance director. I flat out told them to go pound salt. My phone doesn’t get answered ...everything goes to voicemail. I don’t answer to anyone, don’t get compensated so am not beholding to anyone’s sense of control and I don’t particularly enjoy interacting with other humans unless it is on my terms.

I don’t think they believe me when I tell them that I have little patience to deal with problems, have a temper that suffers fools up to a point but snaps like a hair trigger. In other words, I feel I’ve done more than my share. Don’t poke sticks at the sleeping bear.

YES!!!!!

[ApatheticNoMore]

I don't think anyone has to volunteer. I do find a purely self-centered existence without any real appeal, seems rather empty to me, but it doesn't mean I think I can save everyone all the time. I'd consider getting involved in volunteering or other community things if and when I want to to be far more likely to lead to doing interesting things than much else I could do. I might just spend a lot of time volunteering at the nature center, my mom does that, when she feels like, no stress, no pressure.

[SteveinMN]

Well William, you bring up jobs that must be done such as Firefighters and condo maintenance. It is ia tricky thing to base Must Do jobs on the back of a volunteer.IMHO, basing "must do" jobs on volunteers is a way of saying "this really isn't all that important". If it's critical, it's worth paying for. Or worth accepting the consequences of assigning the responsibility to someone who does not have that task as his/her first priority. No offense to anyone; sometimes volunteers know much more about how to do something than someone paid to do it. But no one looks for a "volunteer surgeon".


Frugal one I understand your need to just do what you want in retirement. When your job/career involved your heart and soul, retirement is to recover that heart and soul.
When (social worker) DH took her leave of absence, the first thing she wanted to do was nothing. No appointments to meet friends, no plans made more than a week in advance (unless they included grandkids and even then the plans could not be elaborate). After a couple of weeks, she felt recharged enough to start arranging for drinks with friends or to go to social events. It's been a few weeks back at work and she's still feeling really good about her job.

There may be a change of heart about volunteering after several months of retirement. But there does not have to be.

DH has told me (more than once) that, until she retires, I'm doing the volunteering for both of us. (I probably spend 20+ hours a month on volunteer activities.)

[Teacher Terry]

When I first retired I volunteered at the Humane Society, took 3 friends that were either sick or disabled to all their appointments, errands, etc. I too spent a lifetime in the helping professions. And after 4 years I was burned out. I quit my volunteer work, 2 of my friends died and the third would not do anything to help herself. There is a bus service that would pick her up at the front door since she uses a wheelchair but she won't consider anything like that. She has another friend that is much closer then we are who helps her a lot. But this couple work f.t. and have kids. She too thinks my friend should do more things for herself but won't quit enabling. So I totally dropped out of the picture for 8 months. Now about twice a week I bring her lunch and visit for a few hours and that is it.

[ApatheticNoMore]

IMHO, basing "must do" jobs on volunteers is a way of saying "this really isn't all that important". If it's critical, it's worth paying for.

yes although working people in helping professions 50 hour week or more is equally ridiculous (if they are self-employed and choose that oh well, they must love their work, but I mean employees). Or going into a helping profession just seems like a way to be the world's biggest sucker.

[JaneV2.0]

If you can't do what you want in retirement (even if that means lying in a hammock in the backyard and watching clouds roll by), when can you? Next life?

Don't cry for me because I'm not doing what you would choose to do.:cool:

ETA: After 30-plus years of meeting someone else's expectations of me, I'll be damned if I'll sign up for more. (And I fully realize how lucky I am that it wasn't longer.)

[frugal-one]

If you can't do what you want in retirement (even if that means lying in a hammock in the backyard and watching clouds roll by), when can you? Next life?

Don't cry for me because I'm not doing what you would choose to do.:cool:

ETA: After 30-plus years of meeting someone else's expectations of me, I'll be damned if I'll sign up for more. (And I fully realize how lucky I am that it wasn't longer.)

:laff: DITTO!!!!

[SteveinMN]

yes although working people in helping professions 50 hour week or more is equally ridiculous
Didn't say it wasn't. FTM routinely working (salaried) people in other professions 50 hours or more every week (aka "management overtime" aka "we don't want to pay to staff properly") is ridiculous, too. So long as people are willing to work for free, though, there will be others willing to exploit that. Occasional projects that require OT? No problem. Job can't possibly get done in less than 50 hours a week every week? Management is being overpaid.

I'm all for doing what one wants in retirement. Volunteer or not. Recharge your batteries for a year or two or dive right in. Whatever. I'm just against guilting people into performing critical work for nothing. Doesn't matter to me whether that takes place during one's career or afterward.

[Gardnr]

I do find a purely self-centered existence without any real appeal, seems rather empty to me,

This phrase sounds like a negative egotistical description. Self-care is a good thing and not at all empty.

[Tammy]

My current particular helping profession pays me better than anything else I could find. It puts me 6 figures for income. Now my pastor's wife helping profession was the church getting two people for the price of one and that was ridiculous I agree.

[Williamsmith]

I'm all for doing what one wants in retirement. Volunteer or not. Recharge your batteries for a year or two or dive right in. Whatever. I'm just against guilting people into performing critical work for nothing. Doesn't matter to me whether that takes place during one's career or afterward.

This is a very insightful observation of human exploitation. I used to think differently until I emptied myself to the point of exhaustion and compromised my odds of living a full life. Nobody stepped in and told me to slow down...especially not the ones benefitting from my sacrifices. They will ride you as far as you will carry them and then they’ll leave you at the side of the road. That’s the way it is. A volunteer often evolves into a martyr. Self admiration is a poor substitute for authenticity.

[flowerseverywhere]

This is a very insightful observation of human exploitation. I used to think differently until I emptied myself to the point of exhaustion and compromised my odds of living a full life. Nobody stepped in and told me to slow down...especially not the ones benefitting from my sacrifices. They will ride you as far as you will carry them and then they’ll leave you at the side of the road. That’s the way it is. A volunteer often evolves into a martyr. Self admiration is a poor substitute for authenticity.

it’s like being on an airplane and the steward instructs you to put on your own oxygen mask before you help someone else.

Sometimes the best you can do for those you love is put on your own oxygen mask. Otherwise your own life is at risk.

And by by the way I hate that term “give back” Working your whole life, paying taxes, raising a family and so on gives a lot to society. A well lived Useful life.

[Chicken lady]

One day after church when my three kids were very little a friend came over and introduced a new member to my family. She glowingly listed all my husbands many virtuous activities (including directing the choir and playing for services - both for free) and the new member turned to me and asked “and what do you do?” I was not in a virtuous mood. I had gotten three kids under the age of 6 ready for church and brought them by myself because he left early for choir practice and then sat alone while he sat on the piano bench, and was holding the baby while trying to watch the two ambulatory children in a room full of hot coffee and pastries. My sarcasm came out and I said “I wash superman’s cape.”

my friend embroidered it on it on a fancy sampler and gave it to me for Christmas. It is still hanging by my bed.

[catherine]

One day after church when my three kids were very little a friend came over and introduced a new member to my family. She glowingly listed all my husbands many virtuous activities (including directing the choir and playing for services - both for free) and the new member turned to me and asked “and what do you do?” I was not in a virtuous mood. I had gotten three kids under the age of 6 ready for church and brought them by myself because he left early for choir practice and then sat alone while he sat on the piano bench, and was holding the baby while trying to watch the two ambulatory children in a room full of hot coffee and pastries. My sarcasm came out and I said “I wash superman’s cape.”

my friend embroidered it on it on a fancy sampler and gave it to me for Christmas. It is still hanging by my bed.

haha!! That's great, Chicken lady! Thanks for my morning laugh.

[Tradd]

I am nowhere near retirement (late 40s), but I got burned out on volunteering. Did church related stuff for about 10 years before work demands (and a year of customs broker exam study) pretty much forced me to stop doing a lot of what I had been doing. The only thing I have still been doing is choir. One practice a month, and perhaps an extra one or two before Easter, aside from services.

I love having time to just veg. Or to chat with friends over coffee after a service instead of running around doing something.

But since I got certified to dive last fall, I've been at church little this summer. It's felt fabulous to do something just for me. I can't explain just why I was so driven to dive every weekend (and sometimes both weekend days), but I struggled with some things and I was determined not to suck! LOL. The quarry closes Sunday and so I'll be back at church the first Sunday in November.

[razz]

CL, you are amazing at hitting the nail right on the head in your observations. I have often been peeved to see the accolades given to one partner while the other partner who is the quiet anchor stabilizing the relationship and efforts is unrecognized.

I did the same to myself actually. One day, I was commiserating with my DH about the load that he was carrying working fully-time and coming home to work the fields. i felt that I should be out working to earn income to reduce his load. He started listing all the contributions (budgeting, meal planning, childcare, garden including winter storage, etc) that I made including my volunteer efforts. He truly saw my contribution as more than equal to his. He felt that my volunteering was the family's contribution to the community. I needed to both hear and understand that. I have passed along that precious gift of his wisdom to many over the years.

[iris lilies]

I am nowhere near retirement (late 40s), but I got burned out on volunteering. Did church related stuff for about 10 years before work demands (and a year of customs broker exam study) pretty much forced me to stop doing a lot of what I had been doing. The only thing I have still been doing is choir. One practice a month, and perhaps an extra one or two before Easter, aside from services.

I love having time to just veg. Or to chat with friends over coffee after a service instead of running around doing something.

But since I got certified to dive last fall, I've been at church little this summer. It's felt fabulous to do something just for me. I can't explain just why I was so driven to dive every weekend (and sometimes both weekend days), but I struggled with some things and I was determined not to suck! LOL. The quarry closes Sunday and so I'll be back at church the first Sunday in November.

In my plant socieites and neighborhood work we see people,cycle in and out, and I think thatbis very healthy for individuals and for the organization.

The founder of our lily society seemed to take it personally when people dropped out of our group. I can think of several women who worked in our plant society in a few responsible positions over the years and then dropped out. I thought it was great that they had thoroughly immersed themselves into the org and became experts and then moved on to something else in their lives, probably to become experts in that.

This makes for a rich life, IMHO.

I move in and out of plant/neighborhood work, every few years taking up a new aspect of it.

There are those people who are stalwarts of the organizations. Our iris society is lead by Mr. And Mrs. Iris, and that is almost all they do, iris. They are very involved in the Daffodil society as well, but that is a shorter committment theough the year. To truly participate in iris, it 6 months of work between early bloom in March and Final activites of plant sales and planting in September.

[dado potato]

rosarugosa,

I see that you have made a decision about the most realistic target date for your retirement... and it is a few years into the future.

In your original post you expressed your liking for co-workers, but emails and meetings have become stressful.

Some successful people nearing retirement adopt an implicit attitude towards elective work activities: I will do more of what I enjoy, and less of what I do not enjoy. This would constitute a "boundary" that requires some planning and maintenance, and occasionally selling/explaining to co-workers.

As to the problem of e-mails... there may be solutions. What is the problem? How can you influence the flow of emails that are your problem? I do not know your situation, but often a discipline can be imposed on the number of times in a day an individual employee checks their inbox... and when.

If there is a problem of receiving emails that waste your time, it is probably common to many employees. Perhaps a "process improvement" could be learned by the originator of these emails!

Welcome to the "Sick of Meetings Club"! If you find much of the time in meetings is unproductive, then maybe you could offer constructive suggestions to those who think the meetings are necessary. Perhaps there could be improvements by changing the complement of people who are attending a meeting for a particular purpose. (And if it is decided that fewer people need to actually attend, then you might not be one of them... which would mean their meetings is not your problem any more.)

And invariably there can be improvements in agendas and procedures at meetings. A simple expedient, such as doing away with the seating, can result in the business being conducted with greater dispatch.

[pinkytoe]

I have done volunteer work in the past and most enjoyed the grass roots neighborhood type of stuff like planting trees or cleaning the creek. With some volunteer work it feels like the organization just wants a count of warm bodies doing their bidding so they can get more grant money.

[SteveinMN]

I have done volunteer work in the past and most enjoyed the grass roots neighborhood type of stuff like planting trees or cleaning the creek. With some volunteer work it feels like the organization just wants a count of warm bodies doing their bidding so they can get more grant money.
Most of my volunteering is done at our regional food bank. Recently I and several other more-active contributors of time and funding were invited to sessions with their volunteer coordinators so they could get an idea of what we thought about volunteering there.

The interesting outcome of the session I attended was that, to a person, we all felt sufficiently "recognized" not by our selection for these discussions or for thank-you dinners or plaques, but by the food bank recognizing us as an integral part of the team. The staff is welcoming every time we show up. While there always are plenty of options to serve, we are not guilted into signing up for "just one more session this month" or made to feel bad if we're not a "regular". We are given the tools and operational parameters we need to work fairly autonomously. Our effort is tallied at the end of each session and, at the end of the year, the food bank reports on how many virtual FTEs us volunteers have provided.

It is made clear to us, to clients, and to the people the food bank asks for funding that what gets done does not happen without a committed corps of volunteers -- who are not wrung out on the guilt of letting little kids go to bed hungry. While it is personally gratifying to know that we almost literally are putting food on the tables of hungry people, it also is good to know that the organization values us -- we're not just a necessary community involvement or numbers padding. And it's why I work harder for food bank than anywhere else.

[razz]

It takes great expertise to operate a volunteer-based organization successfully. The dynamics are so different but most interesting. How many people do you feed on average each day, Steve? There is such a need as economic challenges arise in our society.

[SteveinMN]

It takes great expertise to operate a volunteer-based organization successfully. The dynamics are so different but most interesting. How many people do you feed on average each day, Steve? There is such a need as economic challenges arise in our society.
razz, I'm just a (volunteer) worker bee! :) But according to Second Harvest Heartland's Web site (http://www.2harvest.org/our-impact/hunger-facts/), they provided food to direct clients here and food partners throughout Minnesota (and eastern Wisconsin, IIRC) to the tune of 80 million meals (equivalent) for more than half a million clients last year. They illustrate that by saying "Enough to feed a city of 73,000 people, three meals a day, for a year."

[Tybee]

My only beef with volunteerism is that where we lived in South Carolina, volunteers were picking up all kinds of work that people should have been paid for, such as hospital work, accounting for non-profits, etc. Meanwhile, people over 50 could not find jobs anywhere. So it was skewing the job market and seemed exploitative.

[Chicken lady]

I’m not sure I agree with that Tybee. I have a problem with unpaid internships at the entry level in for profit entities, but if an accountant wants to contribute to a non profit organization by giving time instead of money, I think that is perfectly ok.

i also think the teacher’s union should let my dad teach math for free. The money freed up by not hiring one math teacher should go to resources for students and salaries for the paid teachers. If the school can’t figure out how to spend the money other than hiring an additional math teacher, great, pay the other one and reduce class size.

the key is, they need to hold him to the same standards as any other teacher, and they need to actually let him do it for FREE not for a reduced rate. Nationwide, you could probably find a few dozen people who would do that for a year or two - lol!

i think childcare providers should be paid, and paid well. But I don’t think a relative, or even a friend, who agrees to care for a child for free while the parent works is taking someone’s job! I think they are helping to strengthen their community.

[Chicken lady]

Volunteers performing services generate no taxable income, so fewer taxes are collected, but they provide services to their community, so less funding is needed. It removes the government from the equation. What do you think Alan?

[Alan]

Volunteers performing services generate no taxable income, so fewer taxes are collected, but they provide services to their community, so less funding is needed. It removes the government from the equation. What do you think Alan?I'm all in favor of volunteerism, but sometimes special interests won't allow it.
Case in point: My wife retired in her mid 40's to free up time to help with our special needs grandson. She also volunteered at a local elementary school in a reading program for special needs students. She loved the impact she had on the kids and gladly worked for free, although the teachers union felt differently, arguing the point that volunteers were taking jobs from their members. After two years, she was advised she must either stop her volunteer efforts or take a full-time job with the district. So, now she's a full-time employee in the Autism Unit, complete with salary, benefits and retirement benefit accrual in OPERS. It's silly.

[Chicken lady]

The way I see it, the issue wasn’t that she was taking jobs from their members - it was that she wasn’t paying union dues. Because she still has the job, but now the school district has less money for other things. The kids come out behind (they keep your wife but lose other resources) The teacher’s union comes out ahead, the feds come out ahead, and how the state does depends on her tax rate vs. her retirement benefits.

my mother was a union neutral teacher, until the year they convinced her to be union rep. After she saw how the sausage was made she became a fierce opponent. My mind was set over the dinner table before my first paycheck.

[frugal-one]

My only beef with volunteerism is that where we lived in South Carolina, volunteers were picking up all kinds of work that people should have been paid for, such as hospital work, accounting for non-profits, etc. Meanwhile, people over 50 could not find jobs anywhere. So it was skewing the job market and seemed exploitative.

Check with the state or federal labor department to see if this is legal. A position that is usually a paid position cannot be done by a volunteer for no pay.

[Alan]

The way I see it, the issue wasn’t that she was taking jobs from their members - it was that she wasn’t paying union dues. And she's still not, joining the union is not a requirement. She and the other volunteers affected were an asset to the students as well as the district, the union made her a liability to the latter. Oh well...

[sweetana3]

I don't understand the argument. My husband provides a full time job worth of hours for about 9 months of the year for Habitat for Humanity. There is a core group of 50 Tigers who are active volunteers. As a result, they are able to build 30 homes in our city for participants. If they did not have Tigers, they would never be able to complete anywhere near that many homes. They don't have the money to pay more employees. They supervise, build parts, keep track of materials, etc. Because he is a volunteer, they have no "claim" on his time and he can vacation whenever he wants. If he is sick, he stays home and does not have to document for an employer.

It is not true that they would hire people to take over the work done by the Tigers. They would just provide fewer houses. I think this is true with any nonprofit organization. Take out the volunteers and automatically reduce services. I am one who carefully inspects any charity I donate to to see how active they are in using volunteer labor and squeaking a nickel. If they have bloated admin and only hire employees with no volunteers, they get none of my money or time.

He also volunteers for a group that maybe has one or two paid employees and the entire rest of the staff is volunteers. They build wheelchair ramps for those who cannot afford them. And he delivers food for a food bank with two other guys once a week. They provide the vehicle and the time. This food bank has no paid employees but is a church activity and would close without the help of the volunteers. It is a lot of work.

[SteveinMN]

sweetana3, I think the discussion is centering on the use of "free" volunteer labor for positions which are essentially required.

I believe Alan's wife's volunteer work fits that description -- she can't just up and decide to hop on the back of Alan's motorcycle for a long tour of the West; there are kids to work with daily. Nor can the school let the special-needs kid(s) sit in the corner, for all intents and purposes unattended. In tybee's example of an accountant, the position may be more time-flexible than assisting children during school days, but still has some hard deadlines and requires specialized knowledge; it's not just balancing a check register; the person has to understand general accounting principles. bae's volunteer fire fighters encompass all of that -- the requirement to respond, hard deadllines, and specialized knowledge.

If an organization was okay with missing 4th-quarter financials (and, therefore, their annual report and the funding issues that would create) because the person who does their accounting had no claims on his (her) time, or letting a special-needs child fall behind in class, then, fine, offer someone the ability to do the job as a volunteer. But if the work is critical, then it should be paid for. Hiring the job as a paid position allows organizations to require certain skills/certifications of the worker, lets the organization impose standards and protocols, and provides some measure of control over the worker's time.

I see the situation differently for your husband's work with Habitat. Certainly he needs some specialized knowledge to build houses. There may even be some deadlines tied to certificates of occupancy and closing on the property. But if he and his fellow Tigers built 28 houses in a year instead of 30, what?

I have no problem at all with non-profits that know how to deploy volunteers to leverage the work they do. But for positions upon which the rest of the organization relies and for those requiring specialized skills at required times, the looseness generated by giving the jobs to volunteers is questionable business, IMHO.

[Chicken lady]

Steve, I think it depends on intelligent use of volunteers. Yes, if the job is essential, it requires a responsible, committed person who will do it well. Paying someone does not guarantee that they will be responsible and committed. Paid employees demonstrate incompetance, quit without notice, are arrested or hospitalized, have family emergencies, and find better jobs (that’s a short list.) the volunteer wanted to do the job enough to do it without pay. The employee wanted the pay enough to do the job....

if you do not have a qualified, competent, committed volunteer for some positions, then yes, it is essential to hire help. There are a lot of things you can’t do patchwork. But refusing volunteers categorically is like saying a paid nanny is always more reliable and competent than a grandmother.

i would do most of my job for free, but I would keep no records and fill out no forms or evaluations. So I kind of feel like that’s the part I get paid for. Also lunch duty. I definitely do lunch duty because they pay me.

[sweetana3]

And there will always be those who complain about volunteers doing tasks.

There was a clear violation here in the last few years. The Museum of Art fired all their security people that moved around the exhibits and checked to make sure people did not take any art away. They "hired" local work/study students who got credit for doing the same work. This is illegal for the work/study program since it clearly took away jobs from people that were doing them and was not a supplemental activity.

[Chicken lady]

That is also exploitative of the work/study students - who are NOT volunteers - they are being “paid” with credits.

[Gardnr]

sweetana3, I think the discussion is centering on the use of "free" volunteer labor for positions which are essentially required.

I believe Alan's wife's volunteer work fits that description -- she can't just up and decide to hop on the back of Alan's motorcycle for a long tour of the West; there are kids to work with daily. Nor can the school let the special-needs kid(s) sit in the corner, for all intents and purposes unattended. In tybee's example of an accountant, the position may be more time-flexible than assisting children during school days, but still has some hard deadlines and requires specialized knowledge; it's not just balancing a check register; the person has to understand general accounting principles. bae's volunteer fire fighters encompass all of that -- the requirement to respond, hard deadllines, and specialized knowledge.

If an organization was okay with missing 4th-quarter financials (and, therefore, their annual report and the funding issues that would create) because the person who does their accounting had no claims on his (her) time, or letting a special-needs child fall behind in class, then, fine, offer someone the ability to do the job as a volunteer. But if the work is critical, then it should be paid for. Hiring the job as a paid position allows organizations to require certain skills/certifications of the worker, lets the organization impose standards and protocols, and provides some measure of control over the worker's time.

I see the situation differently for your husband's work with Habitat. Certainly he needs some specialized knowledge to build houses. There may even be some deadlines tied to certificates of occupancy and closing on the property. But if he and his fellow Tigers built 28 houses in a year instead of 30, what?

I have no problem at all with non-profits that know how to deploy volunteers to leverage the work they do. But for positions upon which the rest of the organization relies and for those requiring specialized skills at required times, the looseness generated by giving the jobs to volunteers is questionable business, IMHO.

This is my issue with "volunteering". Must be there weekly on X day for X hours. Must volunteer during daytime hours. Must must must.....volunteering will be around MY life. My life will not be around THEIR LIFE.

I have submitted to employer schedules since age 15 and when I retired at 60 I will have done this for 45 years! Volunteering will be on my terms. "I am available for the next 3 days. Do you need me?" I don't want to be "required" to volunteer the week I have 100 pounds of tomatoes ready in the garden. I do that work exhausted in the evenings NOW because I am still saving for retirement. I want to go to the mountains at random when I want to go. Not when I am allowed to between scheduled volunteer shifts. And I am not a call-in-sick-for-convenience person.

My heart wants to volunteer NOW. But the requirements don't mesh with my work requirements. Everyone seems to want daytime volunteers. My job IS daytime starting at 6 and ending sometime between 3-6 (overtime exempt has it's downsides).

I think the viewpoint on volunteerism is dependent on the community needs and your personal situation. However, as stated, if my services are mandatory, it should be paid/hired, not volunteerism.

[Alan]

sweetana3, I think the discussion is centering on the use of "free" volunteer labor for positions which are essentially required.

I believe Alan's wife's volunteer work fits that description -- she can't just up and decide to hop on the back of Alan's motorcycle for a long tour of the West; there are kids to work with daily. Nor can the school let the special-needs kid(s) sit in the corner, for all intents and purposes unattended.
No, not really. The description of the volunteer position may fit, although the number of volunteers for the reading program ensured that individuals could pretty much work at their convenience. Plus, all our long tours of the west take place during summer months when school is not in session.

When the district did away with all the volunteer positions in favor of a few paid positions, my wife took one of the jobs because she had a history and a deep and abiding interest in the kids she was helping, not for the money. I think it's immoral to take away a person's ability to voluntarily make a difference in a child's life.

[razz]

It is murky when sorting paid vs volunteer positions. I volunteer to mentor an 8 year old one hour a week and have been with him for 3 years. I can cancel if something comes up but that little guy watches the clock and wonders where I am if I get held up. My commitment is to him, the volunteer organization meets all the legal requirements with paid ED and volunteer coordinator and I enjoy helping him.

[Rogar]

I've averaged maybe 300 volunteer hours a year for the last several years. I've been lucky to be with two programs that are a fit for me and my schedule and am fairly certain I didn't displace a paid worker. My take is that it is sort of like a regular paid job, where some can be boring and thankless and others the opposite. The difference being that you can always quit a volunteer job with few consequences. My experiences have been positive overall. I've made new friends and learned a few new skills.

[razz]

Maybe the question should be about what are the options to support ourselves and supply our needs in today's community.

In earlier times, this was accomplished by shared hunting, foraging, food raising and preserving. The community chose leaders and worked together for the benefit of the good of all, taking care of the vulnerable. Churches and other community organizations still continue to help those in need using volunteers. The recent tragedies displayed during hurricanes and shootings show that this community spirit is latent in mankind but comes to the visible foreground when needed.

Power structures changed all that and some became the serfs and some became the lords with power over the serfs, whether paid or not. Some serfs became badly abused, enslaved; but eventually some of the power lords started to give some authority and sense of shared responsibility to the serfs.

Self-interest ruled! What is in it for me in terms of $$$$$$. Now we have severe economic inequality. I see, on this site as well, those who have benefitted from the current power structure taking full credit for their success that was only possible due to the change in community/society's norms. I am as guilty of this as anyone else but I know it and feel strongly that I owe to the community so volunteer. Others want to maintain this power structure, the $$$$$ to be gained and control access to it.

As jobs change with the technological advances emerging, many will lose that power and scream about the injustice of it all. We are hearing about all the great jobs lost in steel mills, manufacturing, etc., increasingly replaced by robots to serve in self-interest $$$$ benefit to the shareholders and management. Few jobs are immune to this change. A friend was telling me that she was undergoing surgery to be performed by a specially-designed robot!

Not really sure how this will all work out though. Basically I am an optimist so we will see...

[SteveinMN]

No, not really. The description of the volunteer position may fit, although the number of volunteers for the reading program ensured that individuals could pretty much work at their convenience. Plus, all our long tours of the west take place during summer months when school is not in session.
New information! Always useful in a discussion. And picking the motorcycle tour was a device. Could have been a Caribbean cruise in February or whatever. Or DW could have volunteered someplace where the organization always is in session. The point holds in general. It just does not hold for your wife in this instance.


I think it's immoral to take away a person's ability to voluntarily make a difference in a child's life.
I agree; no complaint about that. Not sure where that fits into this discussion, but okay.

And, to CL's point, no, paid staff are not automatically "better" at a job than a volunteer.

However, the way "work" is set up in America today, money is one of the few things an organization can leverage to encourage the meeting of standards among people who otherwise may not be inclined to show up at specific times, do the job as asked, keep records, etc. It's a rare corps of volunteers which is willing to meet the highest standards for the job and deal with the administrative overhead; most of us never get to volunteer in such an environment. And, for most volunteers, it's not part of the work agreement. True, pay is no guarantor that the employee will do all those things -- but then there's a recourse beyond hoping to find someone else to do the critical job for "free".

[rosarugosa]

Well I've done a 180, or I guess actually a 360. I have set all the pieces in motion for retirement on 12/1/17. I hope it all works well, such a scary step, and I will certainly have a new sense of purpose on the Frugals thread!

[Yppej]

Any trigger? For me it would be the prospect of winter commuting.

Wishing you the best.

[Teacher Terry]

I am actually not surprised. It seemed like you really wanted to go. good luck!

[Tybee]

I am really happy for you, Rosa!!!

[rosarugosa]

Yppej: The short version is that it was a combination of working 12 hour days and still slowly sinking, and a change to retiree health insurance benefits very much for the worse for those retiring after 12/1/17.
This has been really hard. I am not usually so indecisive.
Thanks for the good wishes again everyone. You will all get to hear how it plays out for sure!

[catherine]

I think it's going to work out great, rosa! Congrats!

[Williamsmith]

I think it's going to work out great, rosa! Congrats!

I will second this ! Here’s to a new Chapter. Turn the page.

[SteveinMN]

Yppej: The short version is that it was a combination of working 12 hour days and still slowly sinking
I have some friends who have their retirement "points" but are unsure when they will retire. They say their retirement date is "TBD": "Three Bad Days" (in a row). :)

Congratulations again, RR!

[frugal-one]

It WILL work out well. You will wonder why you didn't do it sooner! Congrats!!!!

[JaneV2.0]

TBD! I never could have maintained a job a all if that was my criterion!

Congratulations, Rosarugosa, on going with your instincts. Retirement is sweet.

[mschrisgo2]

TBD... yes, that was the deciding factor for me last spring... actually TEN BAD DAYS, and entire 2 full weeks of school that was awful, and it wasn't the first time in that school year...

Congratulations, Rosa!
You will be delighted when you don't have to drive to work in a storm this winter. I know I was already,

[Lainey]

Rosa,
the MegaCorp. I worked for did the same scenario with health insurance benefits which also prompted a number of retirements. I've never heard of any of those who took the deal and regretted it.
Good for you, enjoy!

[JaneV2.0]

TBD... yes, that was the deciding factor for me last spring... actually TEN BAD DAYS, and entire 2 full weeks of school that was awful, and it wasn't the first time in that school year...

Congratulations, Rosa!
You will be delighted when you don't have to drive to work in a storm this winter. I know I was already,

That was something I looked forward to, as well. And my friend's recently-retired husband was relieved that he wouldn't be expected to drive all over the state in snow and ice. They're enjoying their much-deserved freedom.

[rosarugosa]

Well I did it you guys, yesterday was my last day at Megacorp and today I'm a free agent. Wow!

[Tybee]

Congratulations, Rosa!

[flowerseverywhere]

Well I did it you guys, yesterday was my last day at Megacorp and today I'm a free agent. Wow!

Such wonderful news. Let yourself spend the day doing whatever you want...because you can.

[catherine]

Holy cow!!! Congratulations! Enjoy the next stage of your life! Do a happy dance!

[Ultralight]

Congrats!!!!!

[Williamsmith]

I clearly remember the morning after I retired. I slept in. I woke up and the sun was peeking through my window blind. The first thing I did was smile so hard my face hurt. I log rolled over on my side, sat up and placed my feet on my little bedside rug that lay on our hardwood floor. I let out an audible chuckle and then began guffawing. Throwing my arms into the air, I started shouting....”Yes! Yes! Yes!” over and over.

I went out to the kitchen and cooked my self up a bacon and eggs breakfast and brewed coffee. And that’s probably the most I got accomplished all day long.

I hope you have a memorable day today Rosa!

[nswef]

Congratulations, Rosa! You will LOVE it, I'm sure. As a teacher my retirement didn't kick in until after the summer. I clearly remember the early days in August the year we (both husband and I taught and retired at the same time) retired and KNEW I did not have to go to school, set up my room on my own time, plan, learn names, go to a single meeting! It was joyous. We scheduled a trip to Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island for the first week of school that Sept. Every year in August I get Williamsmith's feeling! Yay!!!

[SteveinMN]

Congratulations! I understand that, for many, retirement doesn't feel like retirement at first -- it feels like a very long vacation. But eventually you will feel retired and it will be great!

[iris lilies]

Yay, good for you!

[rosarugosa]

Thanks everyone. Feeling like I'm on a very long vacation won't be hard to take either. :)

[Geila]

Congratulations!!!:cool:

Seems today is a day of congratulations around here. It's great.

[frugal-one]

VERY happy for you!

[Yppej]

Enjoy!

[Gardnr]

:cool: Congrats to you!

[Tradd]

Woo hoo! Congrats! Bet it feels wonderful!