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View Full Version : Has Austria Turned Trumpward?


LDAHL
10-16-17, 8:28am
I see that between them, the traditional conservative party and the right-wing populist party (and I mean right-wing as reckoned in Europe) have captured what seems to be a fairly decisive majority. The populists ran largely on an immigration-control platform. I'm wondering if this will create a new fissure in the EU.
ToomuchStuff
10-16-17, 9:36am
New, I doubt it. It seems to be a problem, when ever things change, that immigration and immigrants get lumped together. The good (those that come honestly), with the bad (criminal element).
The EU lost the UK in part due to that. Greece seems to have had some issues with their debt as well as immigrants from war torn area's, etc.
I believe the common idea is from the people. Fix our own house first, before helping others.
Lainey
10-16-17, 12:47pm
I see that between them, the traditional conservative party and the right-wing populist party (and I mean right-wing as reckoned in Europe) have captured what seems to be a fairly decisive majority. The populists ran largely on an immigration-control platform. I'm wondering if this will create a new fissure in the EU.

I saw some of this on BBC news and was pretty surprised. I had thought the WWII experience would have extinguished all of these far right extremists, but they seem to be on the rise again, with some of them adopting the swastika and other Nazi symbols. Very sad to see.
Teacher Terry
10-16-17, 1:19pm
Poland has a President that is trying to take away some of their rights that they have not had that long. The Warsaw mayor is openly opposing him and won't follow some of his directives. It seems like the whole world is electing nut jobs to run their countries.
iris lilies
10-16-17, 1:47pm
I saw some of this on BBC news and was pretty surprised. I had thought the WWII experience would have extinguished all of these far right extremists, but they seem to be on the rise again, with some of them adopting the swastika and other Nazi symbols. Very sad to see.
Sometimes outawing things gives them great power, makes them attractive.

I still can't fathom the government making symbols like the Swastika and Nazi salutes illegal. That is just wrong. When I toy with the idea of moving to Europe I think about basic freedoms like this being subverted to the politically correct and I think "oh hell no!"
LDAHL
10-16-17, 2:22pm
Sometimes outawing things gives them great power, makes them attractive.

I still can't fathom the government making symbols like the Swastika and Nazi salutes being illegal. That is just wrong. When I toy with the idea of moving to Europe I think about basic freedoms like this being subverted to the politically correct and I think "oh hell no!"

I'd rather live in a country with a few Nazis in it than one that banned Nazis. I'd worry about who they might decide needed to be banned next.

I don't pretend to be an expert in Austrian politics but I understand name-calling. The two winning parties being called "far-right" and "extreme", seem to have gotten something like 57-58% of the vote. Who are they far right in relation to? The Greens?
Alan
10-16-17, 2:33pm
I don't pretend to be an expert in Austrian politics but I understand name-calling. The two winning parties being called "far-right" and "extreme", seem to have gotten something like 57-58% of the vote. Who are they far right in relation to? The Greens?
Yep, in modern history, all government sponsored tyranny and genocide has come from the left of the political spectrum (using the US's classical-liberal tradition as a yardstick), whether that was Nazi's in Germany, Fascists in Italy or Communists in Russia/China or the Far East. The "Far Right" label doesn't seem accurate.
bae
10-16-17, 2:40pm
Yep, in modern history, all government sponsored tyranny and genocide has come from the left of the political spectrum,

I seem to recall some right-wing tyranny in South America....

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/sONpXz-hNCo/maxresdefault.jpg
Alan
10-16-17, 2:45pm
I seem to recall some right-wing tyranny in South America....


There's always an outlier.
bae
10-16-17, 2:49pm
There's always an outlier.

By which you mean "Latin America"? Pinochet wasn't the only fun guy in the area.

Guatemala, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Argentina, Bolivia, Paraguay - these were all fun spots!
LDAHL
10-16-17, 3:05pm
I’d say South America has always been pretty much a mixed bag in the preferred brand of tyranny, often alternating between left and right in the same country. Although historically my impression is that the more genuinely committed ideologues incline to the left while the right-wing dictators seem more like opportunistic thugs in epaulets happy to call themselves anti-communist in exchange for handouts.

Was Somoza, for instance, really committed to much else than himself?
Lainey
10-17-17, 4:46pm
...

I don't pretend to be an expert in Austrian politics but I understand name-calling. The two winning parties being called "far-right" and "extreme", seem to have gotten something like 57-58% of the vote. Who are they far right in relation to? The Greens?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/austrian-election-yields-a-hard-right-turn-as-conservative-and-nationalist-parties-gain/2017/10/15/d1dce850-ad22-11e7-9b93-b97043e57a22_story.html?utm_term=.e3a6b52a80f5

"As in other elections across Europe this year, the far right made significant progress ... But unlike in those nations, in Austria the far right is expected to become part of the government."
and
"The Freedom Party, whose first leader was a former SS officer and whose current leader was a onetime neo-Nazi youth activist ..."
jp1
10-17-17, 9:13pm
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/austrian-election-yields-a-hard-right-turn-as-conservative-and-nationalist-parties-gain/2017/10/15/d1dce850-ad22-11e7-9b93-b97043e57a22_story.html?utm_term=.e3a6b52a80f5

"As in other elections across Europe this year, the far right made significant progress ... But unlike in those nations, in Austria the far right is expected to become part of the government."
and
"The Freedom Party, whose first leader was a former SS officer and whose current leader was a onetime neo-Nazi youth activist ..."

So I guess the answer to the original thread question, yes, Austria is going full trump. Delightful.
Yppej
10-17-17, 9:18pm
Sometimes outawing things gives them great power, makes them attractive.

I still can't fathom the government making symbols like the Swastika and Nazi salutes illegal. That is just wrong. When I toy with the idea of moving to Europe I think about basic freedoms like this being subverted to the politically correct and I think "oh hell no!"

Does this lead to spirited debates between you and your Jewish mother?
iris lilies
10-17-17, 11:12pm
Does this lead to spirited debates between you and your Jewish mother?
Oh, she is dead!

But my mother wasnt a logical thinker, so she probably would have a knee jeek reaction to the word "swastika" and agree with anyone that it is bad and should be illegal there and maybe even here. If you asked her she might even say that the Confederate dlag here should be illegal.
jp1
10-18-17, 12:40am
And probably would've said that people freaking out about "blood and soil" were just over-reacting?
iris lilies
10-18-17, 1:16am
And probably would've said that people freaking out about "blood and soil" were just over-reacting?
I dont know what blood and soil is. Is this comment directed toward me?
flowerseverywhere
10-18-17, 5:58am
I dont know what blood and soil is. Is this comment directed toward me?

it was a key Nazi slogan involving your ethnicity (blood) and homeland (soil)
LDAHL
10-18-17, 8:37am
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/europe/austrian-election-yields-a-hard-right-turn-as-conservative-and-nationalist-parties-gain/2017/10/15/d1dce850-ad22-11e7-9b93-b97043e57a22_story.html?utm_term=.e3a6b52a80f5

"As in other elections across Europe this year, the far right made significant progress ... But unlike in those nations, in Austria the far right is expected to become part of the government."
and
"The Freedom Party, whose first leader was a former SS officer and whose current leader was a onetime neo-Nazi youth activist ..."

We could either decide out of hand that six out of ten Austrians are fascist fellow travelers, or we could try to understand the complex concerns that caused them to vote the way they did. But seeing Nazis under the bed is so much easier. That way you can simply dismiss the people who disagree with you as beklagenswert.