View Full Version : Screaming at the Sky
When I first heard about this, I thought my leg was being pulled, but apparently on November 8 people around the country are organizing to "scream helplessly at the sky" to commemorate Trump's first year in office. Perhaps next year they could arrange for a million people to hold their breathe until they turn blue.
Pretty funny. I feel like screaming at the sky at how stupid our citizenry and political "leaders" seem to have become.
Williamsmith
10-27-17, 10:03am
Well, I have to admit to screaming at the sky but for a different purpose. During the full moon, I wander out into the darkness and hold up my wallet and yell, “Fill er up!” three times. I usually find some money comes my way. This year if Trump gets his tax cuts,......maybe all that screaming helplessly at the sky might actually pay off.
goldensmom
10-27-17, 12:11pm
My nearest neighbors are ½ mile away and we don’t talk politics but if they come out yelling on Nov. 8th I will know they either voted for Hillary or the cows are out again.
frugal-one
10-27-17, 1:54pm
Well, I have to admit to screaming at the sky but for a different purpose. During the full moon, I wander out into the darkness and hold up my wallet and yell, “Fill er up!” three times. I usually find some money comes my way. This year if Trump gets his tax cuts,......maybe all that screaming helplessly at the sky might actually pay off.
You are probably in a higher tax bracket then? Because that is who the git will help the most!
goldensmom
10-27-17, 4:15pm
You are probably in a higher tax bracket then?Because that is who the git will help the most!
Where did you get your information? I am curious and have searched but I cannot find any concrete information just a bunch of opinions and speculation. Sure would like to know something for sure if you have sources.
Williamsmith
10-27-17, 5:03pm
“Among the positive elements: an end to the “death tax;” increases in the child tax credit; a doubling of the “standard deduction,” raising the amount of tax-free income for individuals and couples; an end to the controversial “alternative minimum tax” (AMT) that has become a “trap for middle and working class Americans;” preserving the charitable deduction, lowering taxes on small business income to 25 percent; allowing companies to write off investment expenses immediately; slashing corporate tax rates to 20 percent; moving to a territorial tax system that does not punish American firms for selling goods overseas; and more.”
https://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/politics/item/27065-trump-tax-plan-draws-praise-fire-from-paul-family
If you are poor your rates will rise from 10% to 12%, and if you live in a high tax state you will no longer be able to deduct the state taxes you pay. Most of the high tax states are blue states. There are definite winners and losers in this proposal.
And only rich people pay the death tax. My parents were told to see about setting up a trust to try to avoid some of these taxes, and all they did was waste money on attorney's fees. Despite owning a home in a high cost of living area they do not have enough in assets to make it worthwhile.
If you are poor your rates will rise from 10% to 12%, and if you live in a high tax state you will no longer be able to deduct the state taxes you pay. Most of the high tax states are blue states. There are definite winners and losers in this proposal.
And only rich people pay the death tax. My parents were told to see about setting up a trust to try to avoid some of these taxes, and all they did was waste money on attorney's fees. Despite owning a home in a high cost of living area they do not have enough in assets to make it worthwhile.
I'd rather wait for details, for example, if one class of tax payer's rate rises 2%, yet the standard deduction is increased, does that equal an increase in taxes paid? And the estate tax, not only does this impact the rich, but it also impacts farms and small businesses who earn middle class livings from expensive assets such as land or other infrastructure. On top of that, I've never understood what claim Democrats have on other people's property. It seems rude.
Lastly, why are blue states so expensive?
As far as I'm concerned, Trump's tax "plan" is nothing more than some bullet points scrawled on a cocktail napkin at this point. I'll wait until I see some details. Some of the bullet points seem.....ill-advised....purely at the #hashtag level of analysis though.
Lastly, why are blue states so expensive?
They're nice places to live. It's the law of supply and demand.
ApatheticNoMore
10-27-17, 7:22pm
Actually at this point just about any decent sized urban area is getting expensive (or have you not checked recently). Yes some more than others of course, but it seems widespread.
I suspect the economic situation might be bad enough many places that people leave to anywhere they think they might be able to land a decent job though ... and place expensiveness way second to that, rightly or wrongly.
They're nice places to live. It's the law of supply and demand.So shouldn't the residents be willing to pay for it? Or would that make them a red state? :~)
rosarugosa
10-27-17, 7:22pm
Yppej: You know it! :)
So shouldn't the residents be willing to pay for it? Or would that make them a red state? :~)
We do pay for it in higher state and local taxes. If you then tax those already taxed amounts, you have double taxation. So conservatives, why is double taxation so bad for corporations, yet so acceptable for residents of blue states?
So conservatives, why is double taxation so bad for corporations, yet so acceptable for residents of blue states?
I'm conservative, and I think that particular line on the napkin doesn't *seem* sensible at first glance.
We do pay for it in higher state and local taxes. If you then tax those already taxed amounts, you have double taxation. So conservatives, why is double taxation so bad for corporations, yet so acceptable for residents of blue states?
How is that different from the estate tax?
For the record, I'd rather we all pay as little tax as possible, but I'd also prefer fairness. How can you rail against one and be in favor of another?
One is income you've earned. The other is what someone else, now dead, earned and is giving to you, what you're getting because you happened to be born into a family with assets to pass on.
goldensmom
10-28-17, 5:32am
As far as I'm concerned, Trump's tax "plan" is nothing more than some bullet points scrawled on a cocktail napkin at this point. I'll wait until I see some details. Some of the bullet points seem.....ill-advised....purely at the #hashtag level of analysis though.
Until I see something posted on the <congress.gov> website I agree that at this point it is a napkin/bullet point plan.
They're nice places to live. It's the law of supply and demand.
It might be interesting to compare how red and blue states tax and spend revenues. Here the growth and housing prices have been amazing the last few years. We have light rail, a newer airport, nice parks, bike lanes, and a huge open space program for hiking, biking and other recreation. My county has had a one-half percent sales tax voted in years ago that is dedicated to developing and managing recreational open spaces, so there are vast natural areas around the city. It's a nice place to live to start, but investments in amenities has helped. No doubt legal recreational pot has attracted some young people, but the polls have indicated not as many as some claim. I could fall into the if you build it they will come theory. I can't even speculate on how red states or red cities tax and spend, but would guess it is more conservative.
My city is vying for the second Amazon headquarters, which I understand could add 50,000 jobs. Because of some of these things, they say we are near the top of consideration. There is even a growing opposition to this because of already crowded highway and escalating home prices.
JaneV2.0
10-28-17, 10:55am
It's circular--nice places to live draw residents, which drives house prices up, which generates more tax revenue, which buys good schools, library systems, and transportation, which attracts new businesses, which bring more new residents...Scenic beauty seems to be a feature of a lot of blue states-- certainly this one--and I like that we have a highly educated population that is not afraid of new ideas. Or ideas whose time has come.
Cannabis doesn't just provide amusement for the young, it's popular among the older set, as well, to treat pain, insomnia, anxiety, and other delightful side effects of aging. Families with children with seizure disorders have moved to states where it's available and legal, as well. In legal marijuana states, opioid use is shown to decline--not an inconsequential benefit.
frugal-one
10-28-17, 12:54pm
Where did you get your information? I am curious and have searched but I cannot find any concrete information just a bunch of opinions and speculation. Sure would like to know something for sure if you have sources.
Here is just one place I saw the information.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/27/us/politics/trump-tax-plan-wealthy-middle-class-poor.html
A snippet of interest too....
Mr. Trump is proposing to cut taxes during one of the longest economic expansions in American history. It is not clear that the economy can grow much faster; the Federal Reserve has warned that it will seek to offset any stimulus by raising interest rates.
At the time of the earlier cuts, the federal debt was considerably smaller. The public portion of the debt equaled 24 percent of the gross domestic product in 1981, and 31 percent in 2001. In June, the debt equaled 75 percent of economic output.
The Trump administration insists that its tax cut will catalyze such an economic boom that money will flow into the federal coffers and the debt will not rise. The Reagan and Bush administrations made similar claims. The debt soared in both instances.
If I receive a substantial tax cut, I will certainly spend the $$$ investing in useful local-level businesses and Needdful Causes. Which might stimulate at least some small part of the economy.
frugal-one
10-28-17, 1:06pm
My city is vying for the second Amazon headquarters, which I understand could add 50,000 jobs. Because of some of these things, they say we are near the top of consideration. There is even a growing opposition to this because of already crowded highway and escalating home prices.
WI is bidding for Amazon too. Governor Walker just got around a $3billion approval for FoxConn too. Makes absolutely no sense since the unemployment rate is 3.5% (last I saw) in state as a whole. I just read an article that we are going to have worker shortages shortly. So, why are we trying to add to that problem? FoxConn is going to get paid an EXORBITANT amount for each job they bring to the state. Supposedly, it will take around 25 years to see this recouped. There is no guarantee this type of business will be around that long based on technology. Also, EPA rules are being tossed out the window to accommodate them. Not a great precedence to set!! I am ashamed to say I voted for the moron, Walker!
frugal-one
10-28-17, 1:08pm
If I receive a substantial tax cut, I will certainly spend the $$$ investing in useful local-level businesses and Needdful Causes. Which might stimulate at least some small part of the economy.
I'd say you are unusual. The line of work I was in, I investigated all types of businesses. As a rule, the more they made, the greedier or tight-fisted they got. I saw very few businesses pass the $$$ down to the little guy.
The thing i'm cutrious about is how they plan to pay for a $1.5trillion tax cut for rich people. Or are the republicans finally going to admit that they were never concerned with fiscal responsibility and that the laffler curve is a whole lot less curvy than claimed and is actually worth about as much as the napkin it was written on.
It's circular--nice places to live draw residents, which drives house prices up, which generates more tax revenue, which buys good schools, library systems, and transportation, which attracts new businesses, which bring more new residents...Scenic beauty seems to be a feature of a lot of blue states-- certainly this one--and I like that we have a highly educated population that is not afraid of new ideas. Or ideas whose time has come.
Along with self-segregating by housing costs, I think we also need to consider the impact of restrictive zoning. Combined, this can create situations like we see in California, where wealthy enclaves can afford nice amenities, but the State as a whole has a dreadful poverty rate. Or why so many "blue states" rank among the highest in income inequality. It's easy to congratulate yourself on the quality of life you've achieved if you can push the poor outside your borders by restricting the affordable housing you'll allow.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/chuckdevore/2016/09/28/why-does-california-have-the-nations-highest-poverty-rate/#8d3b81812d98
http://www.epi.org/publication/income-inequality-by-state-1917-to-2012/
From the second link I see that rich people do well everywhere except West Virginia.
Gardenarian
11-2-17, 1:43am
In any case, screaming at the sky seems like a reasonable way to diffuse some Trump tension.
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