Can My Children Be Friends With XXX People?

[bae]

Interesting opinion piece in the NY Times today. Makes me sad.

"As against our gauzy national hopes, I will teach my boys to have profound doubts that friendship with white people is possible. "


https://mobile.nytimes.com/2017/11/11/opinion/sunday/interracial-friendship-donald-trump.html

[bae]

I just got back from visiting the National Holocaust Museum a few weeks ago, and before that I visited similar museums in the Nordic countries. This sort of thing, well, irks me.

[Yppej]

The author is hypocritical. He allows himself to have white friends but doesn"t want his son to.

[razz]

The author is hypocritical. He allows himself to have white friends but doesn"t want his son to.
I disagree with your observation. When his children ask him about choosing friends, he will tell them to be cautious. He has white friends who have stood with him but many will not. Is it white privilege or simply abusive-tolerant bullying that is condoned and not fiercely rejected?

I do the same. I am cautious until I know the mindset of the individual I am encountering. I have not been treated differently because I am of colour but because I am female. That is what the twitter me'too is all about.

It is a sad story about those who see the world as 'us vs them'. It is centuries old but those of colour - brown or black or indigenous or other - face the same challenges and it doesn't seem to be decreasing. Sad when the colour of your skin is seen as a flaw. Primitive tribes see albinos in man or animals in their communities as fearful.

.

[dmc]

Should white people tell there children to not have friends that are not white?

[Tradd]

Should white people tell there children to not have friends that are not white?

If white people did that, they would be accused of being bigots and racists.

[Alan]

If white people did that, they would be accused of being bigots and racists.
It's the natural progression of identity politics which advances bigotry as a noble cause, social segregation rather than legal segregation.

[JaneV2.0]

“I have certainly met much more discrimination in terms of being a woman than being black, in the field of politics.”--Shirley Chisholm

I remembered her remarks because she was one of the many non-starter candidates I have voted for over the years. I think Clinton's experience would bear that out.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Author seems to confuse rhetoric with reality, I mean just because people talk about the opiate epidemic it doesn't mean much is being done about it, and just because they may talk about unemployed white people of a certain demographic it doesn't mean much in the way of real help exists for them (actually probably pretty much none and they are to suffer utter despair silently for the most part, but sure not the only people to do so).

I also really don't see what the article has to do with childrens friendship, does she imagine these will be life long friends and not childhood playmates playing dodgeball or whatever. While that happens, how realistic is that really? Most people are not hanging out with their childhood friends all their life, though I have seen it happen, almost entirely with kids that went to private schools. Friends being people who care about your wellbeing and stuff, uh this is putting an entirely adult definition on friendship that isn't a kids definition (and frankly often isn't achieved in adult friendships either). A kids definition is kids it's fun to play with! Caring about one's well being at that age is a parents/gransparents/etc. job, other kids are for fun.

[razz]

Should white people tell there children to not have friends that are not white?
Does not accepting and tolerating the claims that all Mexicans are rapists etc, banning Muslims as terrorists, profiling blacks amount to the same message to white children?
Do not the public facts bear out that the opioid crisis in blacks was being treated as criminal activity and yet white-based opioid crisis triggers a public health emergency as stated in the posted story? Verify what you don't agree with but I have read this in several reports.

[Chicken lady]

I raised white children. I taught them to be aware that not everybody who is nice to you is necessarily your friend. I understand that unfortunately his son will have to pay closer attention than mine did. I think he uses the term “friend” much as I do (I have very few friends) But I find his premise racist by definition. And I think that by discouraging his son from trying to bridge differences he is perpetuating the problem.

[jp1]

I tend to agree with chicken lady. The author's initial premise is faulty. Only 46% of voters were comfortable enough with the identity and victim politics of trump to actually vote for him. There are plenty of white people who want no part of the toxic hatred and divisiveness he was pushing. I think a better lesson to teach his children would be that it takes time to get to know someone well enough to be able to judge the content of their heart regardless of any other details that may be readily visible about the person.

[creaker]

Seems like the first thing you'd have to teach your kid is profiling. Color doesn't feel like what should warn kids about, it sounds like he's out to turn his kid into a racist.

[Williamsmith]

In order for us all to be equally informed, here is a bio from the huffingtonpost on the author:

“Ekow N. Yankah is a Professor of Law at Cardozo School of Law. He holds degrees from the University of Michigan, Columbia University School of Law and the B.C.L., a post-graduate law degree from Oxford University. Professor Yankah’s scholarship explores the intersection of jurisprudence, criminal law and political theory. His scholarship has appeared in a variety of books, law reviews and peer reviewed legal theory journals. Professor Yankah has been recognized as one of the Top 50 influential Law Professors. He has been a fellow of the Israeli Institute of Advance Studies, a distinguished visitor of the MacArthur Foundation and will be a visiting fellow at the Interdisciplinary Center, Herzliya and a Distinguished Visiting Professor at the University of Toronto School of Law. Professor Yankah is the Co-Chair of the nationally recognized New York Democratic Lawyer’s Counsel, the the voting rights organization of the Democratic National Committee, sits on the Boards of The Humanities Institute, The Lawyers' Committee for Equal Rights Under the Law, and the Innocence Project. His opinion pieces have appeared in, among other places, The New York Times, The New Yorker and The Huffington Post. He is a commentator on among others MSNBC, BBC and BBC International.”

[Williamsmith]

Correct me please. Is he not complaining that the opiod crisis disproportionately effects white people because of white privilege? I know he’s the man with the alphabet soup but I’d have found a better complaint. He doesn’t mention that white people commit suicide at far greater rates than blacks. Refer to the CDC. I also doubt his kids will be exposed much to ignorant white racists as he is no doubt residing in a well to do upper class community and not the ghettos of inner cities. Hol......Ekow!

[jp1]

Correct me please. Is he not complaining that the opiod crisis disproportionately effects white people because of white privilege?

I didn't get that he was complaining that opiods disproportionately affect white folks, but that the treatment of blacks with drug problems is distinctly different from the treatment of drug problems among white people. One are criminalized. The other are considered to have a medical problem. There's a long history of republicans using the drug war against their enemies. After Nixon it was the differentiation of powder cocaine vs. crack. One, the less serious offense, was typically used by white folks, the other, more commonly by black folks. The punishment for crack was much harsher than straight cocaine when there ware actually similar amounts of cocaine in either.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/eriksherman/2016/03/23/nixons-drug-war-an-excuse-to-lock-up-blacks-and-protesters-continues/#6c7fc73942c8

[ApatheticNoMore]

But when black lives were struck by addiction, we cordoned off minority communities with the police and threw away an entire generation of black and Hispanic men.

yea I guess I didn't read this as strictly about blacks being more likely to be imprisoned for drug use, but I suppose if one wants to have a very narrow interpretation that the ONLY problem with drug addiction is it being illegal then they might. But while the legal issues ARE a problem, another not so small problem with addiction is also that it directly kills people (not always the opiates themselves sometimes it's a mix of drugs).

And I also don't get it when it's argued we are treating it as a public health problem with white people, is that really meant to be merely mean we aren't imprisoning people, again a pure absence of a negative, at least we refrain from that? Because I interpret it as we are doing something positive to help them, and I know there is some talk of that, but I don't know that we really are. I don't think we really care very much about poor people in this country even when they are white.

Is it really "those white people are SO lucky they didn't go to prison". Yes prisons are indeed horrible places, I agree already, but it doesn't mean the white people even when they don't go to prison can necessarily rebuild their lives, well for one thing they may be dead, but even if not, many of them are hardly hire-able (assuming they even had any options previously and it wasn't never being able to find work that drove them to drugs) after years of drug addiction etc.. Upper middle class people maybe easily rebuild lives after drug addiction but poor people with few economic prospects to begin with ...

Basically we threw away an entire generation (although not that young, lots middle aged) of poor often rural white people in order for a few drug company heads to make record profits. Just like you know they die of coal related cancers etc. in Appalachia and we let them die and somehow the lack of melanin doesn't protect them from being poisoned for profit, while the powers that be look the other way.

[Ultralight]

It's the natural progression of identity politics which advances bigotry as a noble cause, social segregation rather than legal segregation.

I agree with you. Which is a bit unsettling... hahaha

[Ultralight]

Correct me please. Is he not complaining that the opiod crisis disproportionately effects white people because of white privilege? I know he’s the man with the alphabet soup but I’d have found a better complaint. He doesn’t mention that white people commit suicide at far greater rates than blacks. Refer to the CDC. I also doubt his kids will be exposed much to ignorant white racists as he is no doubt residing in a well to do upper class community and not the ghettos of inner cities. Hol......Ekow!

8 out of 10 suicides are men. Male privilege that.

[Ultralight]

“I have certainly met much more discrimination in terms of being a woman than being black, in the field of politics.”--Shirley Chisholm

I remembered her remarks because she was one of the many non-starter candidates I have voted for over the years. I think Clinton's experience would bear that out.

You win the Oppression Olympics gold medal.

[Ultralight]

When I was a kid, in one of my mom's few moments of lucidity she said: "Be a good friend to good people. Skin color, if they are gay, whatever religion -- doesn't matter. What matters is the mutual goodness."

I reflected on that as a kid, and since then. And that is how I choose my friends.

[LDAHL]

I'm taking a different tack here. I'm trying to raise my kid to be the sort of person who would laugh in my face if I tried picking her friends for her based on my theory of social justice.

[Williamsmith]

When I was a kid, in one of my mom's few moments of lucidity she said: "Be a good friend to good people. Skin color, if they are gay, whatever religion -- doesn't matter. What matters is the mutual goodness."

I reflected on that as a kid, and since then. And that is how I choose my friends.

You know, if your mother never did a damn thing for you other than give you that world view.....well I’d say she did enough. Good on her and her moment of lucidity!

[razz]

You know, if your mother never did a damn thing for you other than give you that world view.....well I’d say she did enough. Good on her and her moment of lucidity!
+1

[Zoe Girl]

I can see a point here, I know that growing up it was significant when the first black family moved into the neighborhood and the first Indian family. It was not a bad thing and I don't think our neighborhood was bad about it, but I do recall my mom telling me that the mom in the first black family was lonely. It was simply hard to be the first family no matter how nice we were. And there is a tension at times, I have had it with some white friends. I have been very comfortable with them and then I moved to a black neighborhood. Attitudes came out that I didn't expect. Assumptions that I would go to their house but of course they couldn't come to mine, some teen sons of my friends making jokes that everyone was a criminal based on skin color, and a few more. I found ways to address it but I am hesitant even as a white person with other white people.

[ApatheticNoMore]

And there is a tension at times, I have had it with some white friends. I have been very comfortable with them and then I moved to a black neighborhood. Attitudes came out that I didn't expect. Assumptions that I would go to their house but of course they couldn't come to mine, some teen sons of my friends making jokes that everyone was a criminal based on skin color, and a few more. I found ways to address it but I am hesitant even as a white person with other white people.

I don't think most of this is even the same thing, it may be biased and unfair but I think people avoid neighborhoods if they think they might be unsafe and not all the neighborhoods they think might be unsafe actually are. But unadventurous people make swift assumptions just because they know dangerous neighborhoods exist and they have never been there.

But also a bunch of white people aren't always wanted in an all black etc. neighborhood, at this point people fear it as gentrification, and think high rents they can't pay will follow.

[Zoe Girl]

I don't accuse my friends of being racist, but yes making assumptions about people and places they have not been before. Basically they knew that the neighborhood was in the city and I shared some things about the area. One was that I started to attend a church where they actively talked about white flight when the neighborhood changed and worked to keep a good place for everyone in an era that had a lot more racism. So I didn't say there was more crime, it was an assumption that I ended up addressing after I moved. The difference for me is that we probably all feel awkward when we are the only one of some group in a larger group, however we can be aware when we associate it with more crime or poor performing schools.

[kib]

This article posits a rather bizarre and self serving description of friendship, as if potential friends were an insensate lineup of menu items. I'll have one from column A and one from column B, with a side of pot stickers and a Pink Lady. I have found that real friends come along ... organically, for the most part, and I fall in like with them the way I fall in love - with my heart, not a manifest.

[dado potato]

I suppose members of any ethnic group can warn their children about interactions with any other ethnic group.

In 2012, after George Zimmerman shot and killed Trayvon Martin at the age of 17, I saw a number of items about "the talk" black parents have with their children, especially young teenagers, about being careful with police and avoiding causing suspicion.

[Ultralight]

I'm taking a different tack here. I'm trying to raise my kid to be the sort of person who would laugh in my face if I tried picking her friends for her based on my theory of social justice.
You're trying to raise a kid who will be a critical thinker capable of making her own decisions?
That is just crazy talk!

[Ultralight]

You know, if your mother never did a damn thing for you other than give you that world view.....well I’d say she did enough. Good on her and her moment of lucidity!
Thanks. She has her moments.

[LDAHL]

You're trying to raise a kid who will be a critical thinker capable of making her own decisions?
That is just crazy talk!

Could be. But I think the essence of parenting is raising children to be independent adults capable of thriving on their own. She may not get a huge inheritance, but she'll know a hawk from a handsaw if I have anything to say about it.

I just hope most of the campus snowflakery will have subsided by the time she goes to college.

[Teacher Terry]

I agree Ldahl and that is the way we raised our kids. I teach a college course and i noticed the uptick in students wanting special favors not for important traumatic events but things like they fell asleep so didn't take the quiz they had a week to take. Ugh! No!

[ToomuchStuff]

I was a bit shocked, but evidently was the only one. I was trying to figure out how the subject of letting children be friends with porn industry people was coming up.:doh: