View Full Version : What is wrong with people, reality check
Zoe Girl
11-15-17, 10:53pm
I was just told today that i have to move all my program materials from the stage where i store them. This is all the materials to run 20 programs serving over 200 youth. I have 3 rolling carts, 2 trash cans that hold all the sports equipment, a wagon with laundry baskets that are required by licensing and a book cart. have a small office for my assistant and I with one outlet and as much as we can fit for supplies in the room. I literally sit on the floor when i need the printer. I have not been offered any new space, just sympathetic looks as i plan on putting things in a hallway where they are often stolen.
The reason, the music teacher needs to protect the integrity of the stage by having no storage even behind the backck curtain. Most of this is coming to me in roundabout ways, such as passing a message through the office staff or talking to my assistant. The music teacher did finally talk to me, and when i asked for a time when i need to move by (i bave 3 camp days of 12 hours each) she said that i should talk to the principal because someone was going to move them. Such wonderful understanding, oh yeah, i pay for her choir. Takes balls to look me in the eye and not be willing to compromise and then hand me her time sheet. I know that after school programs don't have a lot of status, but i also considered her a friend.
iris lilies
11-16-17, 12:01am
Space wars can be vicious. My sympathies!
mschrisgo2
11-16-17, 2:40am
Zoe Girl, do you have a central office and someone in charge over all of the afterschool programs at all of the schools? If so, if I were you, I would be emaling that person. It should not be up to site managers (like you) to find space- or have to negotiate for it- for your program on a school site. If a principal wants it at their school, they should provide you adequate space. If it is a district central office decision, and the principal disagrees (which is kind of what this sounds like) central office needs to know you are literally getting pushed out. I'm picturing your carts, etc. being put out on the playground in the winter weather! Enough!! Make a fuss! The kids deserve it! YOU deserve it!!
I taught in public schools in California for 31 years. I know there is a lot of s**t that goes on, but I've never heard of anything as bad as what you are dealing with on a week to week basis. I know your heart is with the kids, and you are very dedicated to stick it out. 99% of people would have been gone long ago. Good Luck to you.
Chicken lady
11-16-17, 5:21am
I discovered nothing says “this space is mine” like a live goat.
ok, I know that isn’t helpful, trying to inject a little humor. I vote for toss the problem upstairs. “I have been informed that the site does not have appropriate storage available for our program materials.”
but mostly - find a new job! I’m still hoping for you.
Can they get you a big utility cabinet that locks to put in the hallway? If it is too narrow a space, can you say if things are stored in the hallway it is a fire hazard?
Thanks all! I agree this is an issue to escalate. I am going up 2 levels since i think that person will be better at the negotiation than my boss. His boss has a lot of experience and is over 30 ish schools. My boss had only one school and they loved everything so he hasn't done something like this before.
And humor is helpful! I don't have access to a goat but my sister has chickens.
My one staff missed work yesterday again, she had to see the dr for results of blood tests. I pushed to see if she couldn't have an appointment the next morning but she said they had to see her that day. She texted me later and saud she has lupus and sould be in today. I just answered that i would see her, later i got a text about my lack of empathy. Feelling a little defensive but still will just apologize and see if she is okay.
And looking for a job, i am so over my head and don't get breaks like teachers. I do have a week scheduled off in December so i can do more then. So far haven't seen anything really
ZG, can you separate yourself emotionally from the work situation and see it as a stranger encountering the issues. What would you advise them? It is not you facing it. It is confusion caused by lack of parameters expected and tolerated.
Get yourself out of the picture and present the issues with a sense of detachment. Easier said than done, I know.
As someone who has been on stages as a musician, I sympathize here with the choir director, as anything blocking safe egress for the children is a fire hazard. I don't think a stage should be used to store the necessary program materials, and you have the right to ask them to find a safe storage place for your course materials, not your office, as what you describe is a safety hazard for you and your assistant.
The hall does not sound great either--anything that blocks safe movement of children and employees is NOT GOOD and you are right to point that out. IMHO.
I sure would not get angry with the choir director, who has the same problem you do.
I think I am generally taking myself out emotionally, I just am dealing with it as a problem that needs to be solved but not getting into the stories about how afterschool programs are not valued or about the people and personalities. I just don't think I am the person to solve the problem, the school principal and FM need to figure out where I can store materials since they know the bigger picture. So I told the FM this morning that I don't feel that it is my place to ask around the building for space on my own, I was asked to do this programming here so I need the basic space. If I need to do some things different that is okay, just tell me.
The stage thing I half understand. Nothing is blocking any exits, I would be very concerned about that. It is all on the back of the stage, mostly behind the back curtain, and I move anything I need to for performances. I have always worked well with the choir teacher, paid her, got her an assistant for choir, paid for transportation for her events, helped any child who could not afford the shirt. So yeah, I did have an expectation of at least working with me on the time.
"So I told the FM this morning that I don't feel that it is my place to ask around the building for space on my own, I was asked to do this programming here so I need the basic space. If I need to do some things different that is okay, just tell me."
That is a brilliant approach to problem!
JaneV2.0
11-16-17, 10:17am
...
My one staff missed work yesterday again, she had to see the dr for results of blood tests. I pushed to see if she couldn't have an appointment the next morning but she said they had to see her that day. She texted me later and saud she has lupus and sould be in today. I just answered that i would see her, later i got a text about my lack of empathy. Feelling a little defensive but still will just apologize and see if she is okay. ...
.
Words fail me.
Zoe Girl
11-16-17, 10:52am
"So I told the FM this morning that I don't feel that it is my place to ask around the building for space on my own, I was asked to do this programming here so I need the basic space. If I need to do some things different that is okay, just tell me."
That is a brilliant approach to problem!
Thank you, I am feeling really good about the clear boundaries with this one.
Update that i did get some storage space! It actually sucks as a space but i didnt have to figure it out myself which is what i thought was best.
Then my boss came out to help me interview a candidate and that went well. He stayed to talk and i had told him i had a short time, many deadlines and a nurse visit and a training, etc. At one point i got an essential phone call for the payroll deadline and after he wanted to talk about the elephant in the room. Basically that according to him i have been choosing to avoid talking to him, and as part of that conversation i talked about having boundaries so that i could meet all my deadlines, he asked what was wrong with what he was doing that i needed boundaries. So that explains a lot! I told him a little about how i have boundaries with everyone and that what i do with him is how i am with most people (except that other people understand so i don't lose my temper). I can teach a 5 year old that i have limited time to talk or ask a parent to send me an email if they are telling me something during snack check in, and it goes well.
Today one morning staff was actually admitted to the hospital, another is recovering from flu, and the one with lupus actually seems to be okay but i have not had time for her. This means 5 days of being there about 6:30 and staying until 6. It may get grumpy
ZG, may I share an insight that has recently come up in my life. I discovered that what I was calling boundaries was being perceived as walls by others?
What I need is parameters, a shared discussion and consensus, but based on a solid basis. There are still boundaries.
For me, a solid basis example is from Hamlet - "to thine own self be true [my highest sense of right] and thou canst not be false to any man".
Do you have a clear sense of your solid basis that you can share with your sup to indicate your reasoning that is driving your actions and words?
Thank you razz, I do think that it is being seen as walls. He wanted to know why I wasn't open to him. Based on some of my history it is a real challenge to be open when I don't have a lot of trust. Not too unusual actually . And I am not sure my job should require me to be 'open' even if we are in the realm of education and social support. How many times has a man said I have walls because I am simply not listening to them for really long periods of time or agreeing with them. I feel rather like he is just going to keep going until I agree out of exhaustion, my staff and colleagues have reported similar experiences.
So part of the questions are from our 'culture', what kind of personal boundaries are expected from his hispanic culture as compared to my white culture, what is the expectation based on gender, are there assumptions? I have lots of work in small groups that have a lot of safety around communication and open-ness, I could be part of creating that. However I really need to be led by facilitators with some great training and background.
Today I am just getting through the day, very tired and it will be work to not have it affect people who are not responsible for it.
iris lilies
11-17-17, 9:51am
Blimey, if he actually asked you a big open ended question about why you are not “open” to him, that is ridiculous. What a stupid concept. But if he wants to talk about Gringo culture, you have to put up with it as his employee and a member of the dominant culture.
I assume from your post above about “boundaries” that you are really speaking about prioritizing your work obligations and deadlines over sitting with him and chatting about dumb shit. That certainly is a type of boundary. If I understand this situation correctly, on one hand it is good that you and he are meeting to talk out work issues, but on the other hand he visits you when you really are not free to talk with him uninterrupted by work obligations. Surely he can see that, or if he expects you to drop all work obligations he needs to understand and approve the consequences.
in that situation you smile and feed back that you are “open” to him and use his own (stupid) framing of the conversation to get across the idea that you are focused on the work, the quality of the work, and meeting deadlines. If he prefers that you prioritize being “open” to him (shudder) then I suppose you have to demonstrate that is your new focus.
But ugh.
Zoe Girl
11-17-17, 11:14am
Thanks Iris, I hang with hippy dippy sensitive crowds and this 'open' bugged me too. Want to see my real personality? Well it is quite different than how I show up professionally actually. You pretty much said what I was saying in very similar language,
I was thinking about finding and sending an article on mindfulness, boundaries (priorities) and single tasking (as opposed to multi-tasking). Since I am the mindfulness person in the department then I am going to take that lead and build my career.
BTW I went to an awesome train the trainer to teach de-escalation techniques in my department. Loved the guy and talked to him at the end about mindfulness skills for trauma and ptsd. He was very interested in the topic so I will follow up. I think I have a good reputation and am known in the department and district so there are options to move out of my position but stay in the district. I am asking HR about doing job search and applications that my supervisor cannot see, it may not be 100% but that is okay. I need to let go of the idea I can 'fix' him or the department as part of moving on.
IL, cute but well phrased. It does sound as though he is paraphrasing without understanding the full possibilities of the meaning of the word 'open' in a work setting.
Blimey, if he actually asked you a big open ended question about why you are not “open” to him, that is ridiculous. What a stupid concept. But if he wants to talk about Gringo culture, you have to put up with it as his employee and a member of the dominant culture.
I assume from your post above about “boundaries” that you are really speaking about prioritizing your work obligations and deadlines over sitting with him and chatting about dumb shit. That certainly is a type of boundary. If I understand this situation correctly, on one hand it is good that you and he are meeting to talk out work issues, but on the other hand he visits you when you really are not free to talk with him uninterrupted by work obligations. Surely he can see that, or if he expects you to drop all work obligations he needs to understand and approve the consequences.
in that situation you smile and feed back that you are “open” to him and use his own (stupid) framing of the conversation to get across the idea that you are focused on the work, the quality of the work, and meeting deadlines. If he prefers that you prioritize being “open” to him (shudder) then I suppose you have to demonstrate that is your new focus.
But ugh.
I need to let go of the idea I can 'fix' him or the department as part of moving on.
Just have to quote you here, and add another "brilliant" to the pile.
Honestly, this is HUGE. It is what kept me in my dysfunctional job for way too long, not to mention dysfunctional first marriage. I am a typical al-anon er and have made my life out of fixing things. Some things cannot be fixed.
This is such an enormous breakthrough insight. I need to keep this in mind for my own life, big time.
ZG, you couldn’t spare the time to respond to your staffer with “I’m so sorry to hear that”?
From my vantage point, I’m seeing you demanding empathy and special accommodations from everybody else. Yet here you have somebody who has just received a really scary diagnosis and you don’t offer the tiniest crumb.
Suzanne, not sure I was giving that impression. I did apologize for not thinking when I sent the text and then sent a better one. Throughout the last couple of months I have shared that I want her to take care of herself and encouraged her to see a DR since she did not seem to feel well. Not a shining moment to send a short text but also not the entire picture. I was able to sit with her for about a minute yesterday and I am working on seeing how we can support if she needs regular time off. If you have never worked something like a youth summer camp I think it is hard to imagine that I literally have had no time to sit with her, but I did tell her I wish I had more time.
I am not sure I understand where I am demanding empathy and special accommodations, but that is not something we need to agree on.
ZG as a retired teacher I remember having zero time to breathe. I saw nothing wrong with the text. Just me. You have a lot to handle.
JaneV2.0
11-18-17, 10:32am
I couldn't be much more self-contained, but I've never had a conversation about "boundaries" or "being open" with anyone, let alone in a work situation. Has the workplace changed so much?
My Hispanic SO has the personality of a St. Bernard puppy, but I can't imagine him having that conversation either, though he's been a manager a few times. I'll have to ask him...:~)
Zoe Girl
11-18-17, 11:08am
I would love to know Jane, the open thing really threw me. I have actually heard it in romantic relationships pretty much from everyone. I warm up slowly, really awkward here so that is why I brought up boundaries. I can't think that I have ever said the word boundaries at work or heard others say it, usually I can say different things like about customer service or professionalism that get the message across.
edited to add: I am totally weirded out now that the only other context I have heard that I am not 'open' in is romantic relationships. Probably making too much of it.
JaneV2.0
11-18-17, 12:10pm
I would love to know Jane, the open thing really threw me. I have actually heard it in romantic relationships pretty much from everyone. I warm up slowly, really awkward here so that is why I brought up boundaries. I can't think that I have ever said the word boundaries at work or heard others say it, usually I can say different things like about customer service or professionalism that get the message across.
edited to add: I am totally weirded out now that the only other context I have heard that I am not 'open' in is romantic relationships. Probably making too much of it.
Ha! That's all you need to add to your already stressful situation--a lecherous boss! :help:
Seriously, Zoe, document. If he makes you uncomfortable, document and report.
Gift of fear, etc.
Tybee, oh fu*% , it may be nothing in the end but i will put it in my notes, i already have notes on our conversations, times i don't get answers i need, visits,etc.
mschrisgo2
11-18-17, 1:30pm
OK, now I see why you don't want hi to shadow you... so I will add to my other comments, DO NOT be Anywhere with him where you cannot be seen by others, especially in your small office. Pre plan another meeting space, staff lunchroom, cafeteria, library, outside on a bench in the middle of the quad...
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