Feeling Empty Nest Syndrome long after kids are out.

[CathyA]

I really didn't have any problems that lasted more than a few hours after our kids went to college and/or got their own apartments. I actually enjoyed the freedoms.

But now that they are older and caught up in their jobs and in relationships, I'm feeling really left out.

DS is getting married next spring. His girlfriend is very dependent and needy. I think she throws tantrums when she doesn't get her way.
Which bothers me a lot. And I think he does what she wants to do, to avoid any blow ups. Plus, I think she's chronically depressed and he doesn't want to upset her.

Anyhow......I'm feeling sad that he hardly ever sees us anymore, yet seems to always find time for her family. He and I have always been very close........
but I'm really missing that now. And I can't help but feel a little resentful that his girlfriend probably is the reason I don't see him as much. They've lived together for about 4 years.
But she requires that they do everything together all the time.

I know it's DS's responsibility to speak out, but unfortunately, I think he avoids any arguments with her at all cost.........which unfortunately ends up short-changing us, his parents.

Anyone else been in this situation with their children? Maybe it's just hard for me to change routines that used to make us all so happy.

[razz]

This is such a common problem in some form or another. A friend whose daughter is feeling left out of the family dynamics because her siblings live much nearer the parents. The parents who live through their kids are helping make their kids' decisions long after they left the nest rather than including their partners and undermining the relationship of the young couple. Parents who manipulate their kids long after they leave the nest.
Actually, Cathy, it sounds as though you have a healthy relationship with your son to me. Is there a way that you can befriend the DS's partner by spending some time with her and perhaps building her up to reduce her neediness?

[Yppej]

Not with my son who is single, but with my brother. He has spent literally months over the past year and a half with his wife's family, but only a few days with our side of the family. They were supposed to come out for Christmas, but then my SIL made an appointment 12/27 so it would only be for a few days, then yesterday they cancelled altogether because he had a headache. It is hard because my mother has almost died twice. She is 77 and my dad is 79 and I don't know how many more Christmases they will have.

[catherine]

I think that's how it goes. My MIL was very domineering, and it seems we spent most of our time with her, holidays and non-holidays. To be honest, that's one of my big regrets--not putting my foot down and demanding more time with my mother.

I don't think you can do much about it. Parents give birth, raise their kids, and then entrust them to the Universe. As far as I'm concerned, anything I "get" from them in terms of time and attention is gravy. I tell myself that if I get more than my mother got, I'll be happy, even though that's not saying much.

[Teacher Terry]

Both my brother and my cousin had wives like this and they rarely saw our family until each of them divorced.

[JaneV2.0]

There's an old saying something like "A daughter's a daughter for all of her life; a son is a son 'til he takes him a wife."

A needy, chronically depressed partner is its own version of hell on earth, IMO--but people need to make their own way in life, however misguided it is.

[iris lilies]

How far away does your son live? Why dont you go to visit him, but stay in a motel so as to not infringe on their privacy.

I am guessing that you are writing primarily about the holiday season. It might be nice to see him outside of holiday time, it is so overwrought for so many people.

Here is an idea, just another thing to consider—he may have more fun with the family of his girlfriend, who knows.

I know that the first few years of being in DH’s family there were small childre, three exactly the same age (three!) and some other kids. Christmas eve and morning was more fun there because of all of the children, than sitting around my parents’ house with my one sibling, no small children, just cats. But then,I lived only 40 minites away from my parents and saw them often. I saw my inlaws less often.

[razz]

Just a little chuckle. DH and I had decided that our daughters would both be free to do whatever worked for them. My parents had demanded so much attention and we swore that we would never do the same to our kids.
DD1 married a man who had parents who were as laid back as we were. Laughing one day, she told me she and her husband had asked each other rather plaintively, "Doesn't anyone want to see us?".

Today the kids come when they are able and don't when they cannot. I deal with with it whatever. It is a little more of a challenge since DH has been gone but friends fill in very well. I decided to stay positive and find ways of serving others to prevent any notion of a 'pity party' which I have indulged on occasion. It has got a lot easier with time.

[Chicken lady]

So far I am very fortunate. I wish my son in law would come more often, but my daughter still comes without him (they live 45 minutes away) as for my son, this is the first Christmas they have been legally married, and when he was giving me the schedule on the phone he said “and leave you on the 27th” and this voice in the background howled “why?” And he said “hang on...(mumbling).... and leave you on the 28th.”

(Deleted comment about dh relationship with his mother because it’s most likely irrelevant and not helpful.)

i will say - this is the person your child loves. The closer you are to your child, the more they can tell what you think, and the harder it is for everyone if you can’t find something to love about the new person. I was pretty good at this. The nightmare girlfriend came back for round three before ds noticed I didn’t like her. Fortunately three strikes and she was out!

[frugal-one]

Same problem here. We became grandparents last January and rarely see them. Every holiday is spent with her family. We are told they are busy and yet they go to her folks. DS told me not to get or send Christmas gifts for them. Baby is one in January and we are not invited. Sad does not describe this! They live 4 hours away. When we have visited we definitely were not made to feel welcome but rather an inconvenience. He is our only child and we have no other family. Have been trying not to feel bummed out but .....

[pinkytoe]

One of the many reasons we moved far from our beloved hometown and sadly DD, was that we realized she had made her own life and we needed to devote more time to ours rather than expecting her to keep showing up. I think many adult, married kids gravitate towards one set of parents or the other. In our case, the in-laws had more to offer in terms of time and money so we always felt a bit left out. We imagined that when grandkids came along, we might also get the shorter end of the stick as the in-laws ruled the family roost. Now of course, we just learned we are to be grandparents and wondering what to do - move back and try to become more involved, etc. I am glad I did not have sons though as I think the mother-son relationship can be complicated. The DIL often has to live up to some high standards to please Mom who can be pretty judgmental where her son is concerned. I can only imagine what DH's parents thought of me way back when but here I am still at his side decades later.

[CathyA]

That's sad, frugal-one.

I think DS actually has more fun at our house......but I think he really does things so as not to upset his fiance'. I'm a very unsocial person, so I haven't really reached out to her much. Plus, she talks so quietly I can never hear what she's saying. We all choose significant others for various reasons. I guess at this point in the game, I just have to believe he loves her, hopefully for healthy reasons. Probably DS would see us more, if we always included her, so I guess some of the problem is with me. I don't think anyone can really tell at our family get-togethers that I am so uncomfortable socially, but it's just excrutiatingly hard for me to have people over. Her extended family is very large on both sides and they always have get-togethers. I have no family on my side, so to be fair, they invite DS to more things. He also started his own business last year and is extremely busy. And I'm sure he has hell to pay, when he tries not to always visit her family........so he goes.
I've had some health problems recently and I'll be 68 next month. Her parents are in their late 40s..........and I do worry about my time with him might be running out. But I'm sure he doesn't think of these things at his age....

[cindycindy]

Cathy, Your post could have been written by me 7 years ago. I don't get how someone (ie DIL) could be so unfair as to not give equal time to her significant other's family. It never would have occurred to me to not have a relationship with my inlaws. My MIL died this year, and I feel blessed knowing that I had a good relationship with her. Hopefully, your son will come to his senses. So far, our son hasn't. Unfortunately, this is a very common scenario. As it's a common scenario, there are some good supports out there. (wisewomanunite.com is one) I try to keep busy and count my blessings. Best of luck.

Edited to add: We have a daughter who has a wonderful, kind significant other. She leads an independent life and we have a great relationship where we put effort into and enjoy each others company. Having a independent life and a loving life with your family of origin are not mutually exclusive.

[iris lilies]

That's sad, frugal-one.

I think DS actually has more fun at our house......but I think he really does things so as not to upset his fiance'. I'm a very unsocial person, so I haven't really reached out to her much. Plus, she talks so quietly I can never hear what she's saying. We all choose significant others for various reasons. I guess at this point in the game, I just have to believe he loves her, hopefully for healthy reasons. Probably DS would see us more, if we always included her, so I guess some of the problem is with me. I don't think anyone can really tell at our family get-togethers that I am so uncomfortable socially, but it's just excrutiatingly hard for me to have people over. Her extended family is very large on both sides and they always have get-togethers. I have no family on my side, so to be fair, they invite DS to more things. He also started his own business last year and is extremely busy. And I'm sure he has hell to pay, when he tries not to always visit her family........so he goes.
I've had some health problems recently and I'll be 68 next month. Her parents are in their late 40s..........and I do worry about my time with him might be running out. But I'm sure he doesn't think of these things at his age....

what does the bolded above mean? That you dont invite her to your house? They are a couple, living together for four years, so surely you DO invite her. I just dont get your meaning here.

[iris lilies]

One of the many reasons we moved far from our beloved hometown and sadly DD, was that we realized she had made her own life and we needed to devote more time to ours rather than expecting her to keep showing up. I think many adult, married kids gravitate towards one set of parents or the other. In our case, the in-laws had more to offer in terms of time and money so we always felt a bit left out. We imagined that when grandkids came along, we might also get the shorter end of the stick as the in-laws ruled the family roost. Now of course, we just learned we are to be grandparents and wondering what to do - move back and try to become more involved, etc. I am glad I did not have sons though as I think the mother-son relationship can be complicated. The DIL often has to live up to some high standards to please Mom who can be pretty judgmental where her son is concerned. I can only imagine what DH's parents thought of me way back when but here I am still at his side decades later.

That is big news, congratulations! But surely you cant seriously be thinking of moving “back” since your daughter reproducing cant be a total surprise and something you didnt consider. .???

[razz]

Pinkytoe, may I suggest that you find ways to mentor little people in your new community? Investigate the opportunities available and see in 2018. You might be very surprised.

[dado potato]

Pinkytoe,

I think razz is on to something. People change and their needs change. Sometimes people change, so that what you have to give no longer is what they need. Or perhaps they have forgotten what they need from you, or what you have to give.

So, "pivot to Plan B". Do more of what you like, less of what you don't. If you would like being a mentor, there could be an opportunity in some setting in your community. You may be required to pass a background check, but there could be kids in some setting in your community. One place to connect with someone to mentor is via http://www.mentoring.org

[CathyA]

what does the bolded above mean? That you dont invite her to your house? They are a couple, living together for four years, so surely you DO invite her. I just dont get your meaning here.

I should have phrased that differently. What I meant is that I should invite both of them more often. Many times, DH and I are overwhelmed by the work involved outside the house and inside, plus the fact that I'm not a social person and we end not not inviting either of them very often. But in my defense.......DS's time is also so packed full with work that it's hard for any of us to make plans. I'm always very nice to DS's fiance' when we're together. But, being the needy, dependent person she is, she always needs a lot of reinforcement that she is cared for and not left out (even if it's not what's happening). It's all very complicated. I will try harder to be a different person, but it's a challenge. We always want our children to be fulfilled and happy. I need to accept that DS's needs appear to be different from what I think would be more healthy needs for him to have. Then again, I also need to appreciate the dynamics between the two of them and maybe they fill needs in each other......whether they be totally healthy or not. Many relationships are like that.

[Tybee]

I should have phrased that differently. What I meant is that I should invite both of them more often. Many times, DH and I are overwhelmed by the work involved outside the house and inside, plus the fact that I'm not a social person and we end not not inviting either of them very often. But in my defense.......DS's time is also so packed full with work that it's hard for any of us to make plans. I'm always very nice to DS's fiance' when we're together. But, being the needy, dependent person she is, she always needs a lot of reinforcement that she is cared for and not left out (even if it's not what's happening). It's all very complicated. I will try harder to be a different person, but it's a challenge. We always want our children to be fulfilled and happy. I need to accept that DS's needs appear to be different from what I think would be more healthy needs for him to have. Then again, I also need to appreciate the dynamics between the two of them and maybe they fill needs in each other......whether they be totally healthy or not. Many relationships are like that.

cathy, grab a copy of Joshua Colman's When Parents Hurt. It is a wonderful book which I purchased at a time when I was feeling exactly the way you are feeling (I think!) It helped me a lot, and I should reread parts of it to keep me in a good place this holiday season.

[CathyA]

pinkytoe........I think you should just stay put for awhile. Just see how things go. I'd hate for you to move back and nothing changes. Just be there for her by phone/text/Skype, etc. Offer to help right after the child is born.
Life is a constant challenge. We can do as much as we can and it still might not be enough or be the "right" thing to do. We can only try to be fair and continue to let our children know that we love them and want their happiness too.

[CathyA]

cathy, grab a copy of Joshua Colman's When Parents Hurt. It is a wonderful book which I purchased at a time when I was feeling exactly the way you are feeling (I think!) It helped me a lot, and I should reread parts of it to keep me in a good place this holiday season.


Thanks Tybee.......I'll definitely check that out!

[pinkytoe]

DD had believed she could not conceive so it was a big surprise to all of us. Coincidentally, I had volunteered at a local elementary school the week before I found out. I was blown away by being around a room full of little kids again - sure puts a new perspective on things. Cathy, being a gracious in-law is just one more thing to learn how to be in this complicated life.

[Zoe Girl]

We went to my sister in law's parents house last night. My brother and family were out from Iowa so my grown kids and everyone went over. They are really nice people, gracious hosts, have had the same house forever in Denver with lots of room. So it is like family. They had some food catered and we got time together. I mostly focused on getting time with my brother, but it was also hard to not be the hostess for everything anymore. As my kids all have partners and now one with a grandbaby we need to share a lot of holidays. My oldest ended up not being able to come after all, a long work day, and I was super sad.

I had to make myself remember how much work it was when I was the one with the big house and the kids were small and I hosted it all. And I mostly recalled how much it was nice to have them all little. So some sadness and reflection here. Also some appreciation that all my kids are in Denver, as I consider other jobs I have briefly looked out of state and then ended up just wanting to stay near my family and friends in the end.

[iris lilies]

DD had believed she could not conceive so it was a big surprise to all of us. Coincidentally, I had volunteered at a local elementary school the week before I found out. I was blown away by being around a room full of little kids again - sure puts a new perspective on things. Cathy, being a gracious in-law is just one more thing to learn how to be in this complicated life.
That is super great news, then! I’ll bet you are excited!

My friends who are mid 70’s in age became grandparents for the first time two years ago. Their 40ish year old son wasnt going to reproduce, or so they thought. They were so surprised when he and his wife announced news of a grandchild.

They are active and in good health, so they make the trek from St. Louis to Chicago a few times each year and stay in an Air bnb doen the block from their son’s family.