View Full Version : Who do you call
OMG, so much for coming back from break positive, Just had my phone check in with sup and lost it, The music teacher overheard some of it (just how upset I was but not details, we share a vent and hear everything from each other) and checked to see if I was okay.
He told me that I can't have any parent paid after school clubs, I have been planning them since fall when I checked that our grant would allow for them. I have been talking about it and asking for support on the process to charge parents by debit card. I even asked about one new provider and if he wanted the parents to pay the provider directly or to be funneled through our accounts. He answered so he must have understood. So now as I am ready to put them in place for spring, starting NEXT WEEK, he says this.
He will give me an answer by tomorrow, I am at a loss. I really want to call someone but who. I am a wreck about getting any other work done, or emailing him back, or calling employee assistance, just WTF
He answered so he must have understood
Did he answer in writing?
If not can you get permission to tape future conversations?
iris lilies
1-8-18, 3:56pm
Did your supervisor give a reason for denying these programs?
you have made reference to (what I believe is ) this payment procedure prior to this. Is it the payment process that is unworkable?
Catch your breath and step back. This is not about you or this sup but the kids and the grant money and its purpose to benefit the kids. This is the second time that he has jerked back approval for a program at the last minute. This cannot continue to happen. This is not an emotional issue but a programming issue.
OK, now I would document the process you have the followed to date, the consultations that you have followed to keep this sup apprised of how things were unfolding at each step and the community's response to date.
Has something similar to this program been done in the past with the previous sup and how did that work? Explain the history and the benefits in the past. Explain that you have followed the same steps keeping this sup in the information loop all along with no reason to doubt that the steps were appropriately completed to date.
There appears to be some step that is being missed. Ask him to define what he would like to see done in planning a similar program? Pin him down. If he has no clear answer, I would suggest to him that you both need clarification from his manager using your written sheet of the history because what has worked in the past is no longer working with no clear new direction to follow. Sometimes you just have to call him on it.
MHO anyway.
Did he answer in writing?
If not can you get permission to tape future conversations?
Permission is not necessary to tape someone. Check it out.
Thank you all, and I am feeling pretty good about how I am handling it. I cannot keep being the freak-out person no matter how shocked I am. So I did calm down, when my assistant came in we took a walk around the block. He has spent the last week registering and emailing people for these programs, both parent and grant paid. I did use some bad words, mostly we are just in shock.
I recalled a specific conversation that started with an email, so that I have some evidence. It is hard to have evidence when you just assume it is your job and you have been talking about it for months. In any case I had asked about a program that parents would pay for and how they should do that, and how we should write the scope of work. His first response was that I was a grant based program, same issue I have had for 5 1/2 years!! I am both grant and tuition based, I was the first site to integrate both and it has been an issue at times to get people to understand what I do. I had answered him by email but followed up with a phone call. So I forwarded him the email, wrote some extra things about conversations we have had, pointed out that since I had continually been asking for support in how to charge parents it was reasonable to think he understood that I would be adding fee based programs. Then I put in a short paragraph about the impact of this change, the numbers of students already registered, the parents who have been asking for additional programming and offered to pay, and that the programs start very soon.
Then I ended with saying that my assistant had the program covered today and I was taking some personal time. Staff was still able to call me for any emergencies however. We should only have about 35 kids instead of 80 in 5 locations.
I feel MUCH better by leaving (with pretty much everything done before I left, actually working from home right now). I have been able to stop the obsessive thinking and talking because I am not there, and not working 12 hours as is my normal Monday. It is hard to stay calm when tired and at work. I can remember that I have a life outside. However I do have 2 things and some more that very much need to get done today, I was just sitting down to do them at 11 when I had my check in call and I have not had the focus to finish these tasks. Overall these issues with my supervisor make it hard to do my work, I have been stalling on finishing up the scope of work for each club because there is this uncertainty underlying everything. I need to get a lot of details taken care of, rooms arranged, details for scope of work, make sure I have all the medical needs covered for any after school kids, train my new staff, contact people on the wait list who have been waiting for me to hire this staff, .... there is no time for this drama. Knowing that I would be useless at work while my mind was in the drama I think it was a good choice to leave for a time
You are correct in her state of Colorado it is not required. I was thinking of my home state, which is a two party consent state.
iris lilies
1-8-18, 6:01pm
Tell us, what is your supervisor’s reason for denying these programs? Is it the payment process that you have mentioned several times?
ApatheticNoMore
1-8-18, 6:01pm
Even if you tape you have to have a good plan on what you would do with such evidence that wouldn't make things even worse. I agree it seems like a really messed up situation.
Really, that is very important to know. I remember when I was getting divorced my lawyer gave me advice to not lose my temper no matter what my ex did. He said that they could be recording me and would likely be trying to show that I was unstable as part of the divorce and custody. I did lose my temper and yell one time, really lost it. Then I got it together. I lived basically in my bedroom for 4 months, coming out to cook and do small things and return. My ex started to come home from work at odd times so I was never sure when he would be there. My kids used to bring dinner into my bedroom and eat with me, But I did not lose it with him or with the lawyers or at court. Now personally I was a wreck and lost friends and generally considered myself crazy. He moved out after 4 months, the divorce took 1 1/2 years, and we went back for a child support issue that ended with my lawyer and the mediator concerned for my safety.
There is something about this situation that is reminding me of old things, and reminding me that I can hold my cool and manage myself in a way that impressed high priced lawyers. I came out of many of these challenges doing very well in some ways. One mediator (a lawyer) asked where I had my legal training even! I just paid the price in personally being a wreck for a long time. Now I think that I can do this, I can handle myself, and I have a chance of coming out okay and not personally a basket case.
Tell us, what is your supervisor’s reason for denying these programs? Is it the payment process that you have mentioned several times?
He said that I am a grant based program, that is all. He said according to my grant I could not charge, and I explained my previous grant (21st CCLC) I knew that I could not charge, however my current grant (2A city grant) did allow for it and I had talked to his supervisor (the actual grant writer) early in fall to confirm that. I have moved slow on adding new fee programs because I keep on asking for support. At this point all my fall programs were full and on wait lists so it was obvious we needed to put in more.
My licensed childcare is tuition based and always has been, the grant that I had previously and the new one pay for additional programs such as sports teams, art classes, etc. So I have always been a 'blended' site.
You know we have check ins every 2 weeks and we talk about things like how I could put more detail in my goal tracker and my problem employee but don't get into my actual programming very much. We need to spend a LOT of time apparently, his last site actually charged fees so how is it I have been asking for months for support and don't have it? And if he really thought I couldn't charge why haven't we talked about this before now,
Hey my staff person just texted to see if I was okay, I sent a text telling them to do some lesson planning and that my assistant was in charge. That feels nice,
ZG, instead of asking for support can you state in an email your agenda with the grant and tuition programs and send monthly confirmation that the programs are proceeding nicely . Don't ask for permission or support which will then put the pressure on the sup to ask questions.
Sounds nutty to say this but maybe he simply does not realize that in your communications so far that you have been asking for support. Some guys are like that; "just the facts, ma'am". Be simple, factual and blunt to the point. I wish some guys would chime in here to help sort out if there is a barrier that requires a change in approach or simply an incompetent sup.
Thank you Razz, I would love to hear if there is another way of working with this.
The support thing, he asks (and is expected to ask) every check in about how he can support me and it is in my monthly goal tracker document. I am very independent and so it is hard for me to actually ask for support, in previous years I have not put anything in the 'how can my supervisor support me' box so I was really trying. Not working so well
Chicken lady
1-8-18, 8:05pm
How about “my supervisor can support me by providing clear written communication about goals and program planning.”
Perhaps instead of "support" it should be "question/procedures I need answers for" or something like that. Because, really, from what all you've told us, you know what to do generally.
Even as I type that, it occurs to me that there should be a controller type person in the district that can answer that for you.
I think your goal should be to avoid his scrutiny as much as possible so he doesn't keep undoing things you have put together. Could be he has no idea how to answer your question, and he saves face by telling you you can't do it at all.
Woo hoo, found a job that I would adore! I am working on updating my resume. And I found out the process of applying for teaching jobs in my district. However I am hesitant, I tried for years and never got an interview. I wonder if I am on some type of black list (just saw an article about another state that had a black list). I left my one teaching job when my daughter was very sick but also wasn't doing so well. I applied for 5 years in my district and didn't get any interviews, which seems weird to me.
Does your district use EdJoin?
I doubt there are black lists anymore. With the shortage of experienced and competent employees, it is hard to hire good staff, as you well know.
A caution: be careful in detailing experience- you don't want to appear "old."
Perhaps instead of "support" it should be "question/procedures I need answers for" or something like that. Because, really, from what all you've told us, you know what to do generally.
Even as I type that, it occurs to me that there should be a controller type person in the district that can answer that for you.
I think your goal should be to avoid his scrutiny as much as possible so he doesn't keep undoing things you have put together. Could be he has no idea how to answer your question, and he saves face by telling you you can't do it at all.
mschrisgo, funny how your entry posted ?
"Support" is squishy. Does this mean reassurance of some kind? Is that just listening to you when you rant? Is there some administrative actions you would like him to be doing in parallel with your own activities? Support is a word without a clear meaning. I like CL's and MsChris' words above that are more specific.
iris lilies
1-8-18, 8:23pm
"Support" is squishy. Does this mean reassurance of some kind? Is that just listening to you when you rant? Is there some administrative actions you would like him to be doing in parallel with your own activities? Support is a word without a clear meaning. I like CL's and MsChris' words above that are more specific.
Oh agreed, I have assumed that when ZG uses “support” here that is a general term for the more specific requests she has made to her supervisor. Several times she mentioned needing clarification of the payment process by parents. If someone just asked me for “ support” that literal thing, I would dismiss them as a lot of trouble.
mrschris has an interesting and possibly true point. Very weak supervisors are uncomfortable not having answers, and if that causes them self embarrassment, they may just eliminate the source of the embarrassment.
Oh agreed, I have assumed that when ZG uses “support” here that is a general term for the more specific requests she has made to her supervisor. Several times she mentioned needing clarification of the payment process by parents. If someone just asked me for “ support” that literal thing, I would dismiss them as a lot of trouble.
mrschris has an interesting and possibly true point. Very weak supervisors are uncomfortable not having answers, and if that causes them self embarrassment, they may just eliminate the source of the embarrassment.
That is interesting IL, How would you want someone to ask about things like the payment process for parents? I have never done it before and I need to learn. It seemed more tangible and effective than other types of things like emotional support. I am not asking a supervisor to listen to me rant or provide emotional type support, but either train me or send me to someone who can on parent payments that is something I really need.
Other things I have asked for as support are to miss or makeup a meeting so that I could interview a candidate when I was short staffed, a supervisor to read over a document and give feedback, and opportunities to work on my personal goals such as training staff. I really have no idea what others mean by support, I get the impression that many supervisors see support as advice. In our department they offer to watch us work or look over our task lists to tell us how to do things better.
That is interesting IL, How would you want someone to ask about things like the payment process for parents? I have never done it before and I need to learn. It seemed more tangible and effective than other types of things like emotional support. I am not asking a supervisor to listen to me rant or provide emotional type support, but either train me or send me to someone who can on parent payments that is something I really need.
Other things I have asked for as support are to miss or makeup a meeting so that I could interview a candidate when I was short staffed, a supervisor to read over a document and give feedback, and opportunities to work on my personal goals such as training staff. I really have no idea what others mean by support, I get the impression that many supervisors see support as advice. In our department they offer to watch us work or look over our task lists to tell us how to do things better.
How about instead of "support" you use the language, "I need you to sign off on the x (requisition, voucher, grant request, etc.) that we agreed to in the meeting of 12/13" (you would be keeping notes of all impt. convos with him and typing them up and sending to him and stating, "this is what we agreed to today")
I just got an email stating again that he TOLD me that I could not put in additional programming that was paid. But he told me HOW to charge parents on the 20th of December. transitioning to parent paid programming has been our goals for YEARS.
I am either going to be okay or I am totally f**ing screwed here.
iris lilies
1-8-18, 8:46pm
That is interesting IL, How would you want someone to ask about things like the payment process for parents? I have never done it before and I need to learn. It seemed more tangible and effective than other types of things like emotional support. I am not asking a supervisor to listen to me rant or provide emotional type support, but either train me or send me to someone who can on parent payments that is something I really need.
Other things I have asked for as support are to miss or makeup a meeting so that I could interview a candidate when I was short staffed, a supervisor to read over a document and give feedback, and opportunities to work on my personal goals such as training staff. I really have no idea what others mean by support, I get the impression that many supervisors see support as advice. In our department they offer to watch us work or look over our task lists to tell us how to do things better.
I want you to ask “what is the payment process for parents?”
I dont want you to say “I need support” on issue X.
So maybe you already do this. In the second paragraph where you ask a supervisor to read over a document and make comments and also ask for specific training, that is fine because those are specific actions you are requesting, and they are reasonable and achieveable. But the first one “support” for missing or makeup a meeting—what does that mean? Should I as your supervisor gently coo reassuring words at you? Or, are you askng for a review of what took place at a meeting you had to miss? Hard to know.
If the word “support” is never issued by my subordinates I would be happy.
I just got an email stating again that he TOLD me that I could not put in additional programming that was paid. But he told me HOW to charge parents on the 20th of December. transitioning to parent paid programming has been our goals for YEARS.
I am either going to be okay or I am totally f**ing screwed here.
Simply state the facts as you see them via email. Parent paid programming has been the goal of your organization for years; on Dec 20, he advised you how to charge parents when doing so. State that at no point do you recall being advised in writing against doing so. Stick to facts, rinse and repeat as necessary. Have confidence in yourself!
Thank you razz, sat through meditation at the edge of tears all the time. Lots of feelings, bottom line students need to come first. And I didn't do anything wrong. Now just who to tell and how, and what to do next.
Hey Iris, i am just using the word that they want us to use. I certainly wouldn't use it otherwise.
Goodness, I'm trying to decide who has the worst work situation, Zoe!
Thanks tradd, sucks doesn't it. I realize that talking to people at meditation didn't help. They were very much in fix it mode when i just needed some softness or understanding. I didn't say much to anyone, but in a group of 10 where i am a leader it is obvious.one person just cheerfully said to get another job, she is an architect and yoga teacher, so lots of clear skills and earning potential. I feel as if i am so close to that deep black pit, i went down it before when i left my teaching job. So i know that leaving without a good job isn't going to work out. I ended up in bad places for a long time. Lots of fear, i just need to feel it instead of trying to fix it
What is so hard is that in a feeling business where we do lots of sharing and caring he has broken deep trust. In the meeting that his sup sat in on she needed to add the human touch a couple times when it was getting to be too much for me. He just pushed on his agenda and repeated himself until i was almost in tears. He wouldn't give in any way, admit that he may have been part of a miscommunication or say he could see my point of view. And he so far seems to not care at all about the 48 kids signed up for programs he wants to cut.
48 kids have signed up! Time to include his manager and ask for advice on how to handle it. Admit that you don't know.
Again state the facts as you see them with detachment as much as possible and cc his manager this time. Organizations need the money and if parent-paid revenue generation based on long-term goals of the organization is being denied by a staff member, you need advice.
Keep it simple and clear. Make it about the money.
I texted him and asked when he would be at the main office this morning. I was up and dressed early just to go over. He is not going to be at the main office, there is some event today which I need to skip, not in any shape and will claim a legitimate migraine if needed. He said he would get back to me at one and understood the urgency. I replied that if any changes needed to be made I wanted to include his supervisor and that I would answer any additional questions as needed. We have had some parent paid ones like Girls on the Run and scout troops before, plus I have one class for 4 year olds that is parent paid because 4 yos are not on my grant so I was even able to do that under my previous grant.
I need to do more work on fine tuning all the programming for next week, I guess I just go ahead but avoid parents. The last thing I need is to tell them something I can't follow through on. I am going in and then maybe working at my friend's site for part of the day.
iris lilies
1-9-18, 11:54am
I still think your supervisor is on his last legs. If I were his boss and had to solve the many miscommunication problems he seems to generate, he would be on his way out. But if his probationary period has passed, they may have decided to keep him.
He has been with us a couple years, paid supervisor pay for one site while other supervisors have 9-12. We all thought he was a PS like me and when it was general knowledge that he was a supervisor then he started to be given more work.
Just talked to the principal and we are both committed to not cancelling anything even if we need to go through the school accounts instead of my department.
ZG, you are capable and experienced trying to serve the needs of kids in your community wisely and with options. Affirm that. Remind yourself and others that that has been your goal and you believe that is the goal of your organization. Be open to correction if this goal has changed.
Ask that any changes triggering shutting down planned programs should be done with the informed consent of the manager after consulting with the staff implementing them, IMO.
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