View Full Version : “ Trump was uninformed”. Kelly
flowerseverywhere
1-18-18, 6:58am
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01/17/john-kelly-suggests-trump-wasnt-fully-informed-when-promised-wall-across-entire-border.html
shocker. John Kelly says the president was not fully informed when he made his wall promises. It will be interesting to see how this plays among his base who gleefully chanted “build that wall” as he promised a great big beautiful Across the entire border. Oh yeah, MExico won’t be paying for it. I guess even a stable genius can be misinformed.
flowerseverywhere
1-18-18, 9:13am
Retraction. Kelly must be a liar because now Trump is calling it fake news.
Williamsmith
1-18-18, 9:27am
Well let me make a few observations and then a prediction.
Trumps first and clearly boldest statement on the wall was made in his announcement to run speech at which time any candidate can rightfully claim they could not possibly have been fully informed. Especially one campaigning as an outsider.
The wall “promise” can be spun by supporters and has been that it is more correctly characterized as his “intention”. Kings issue edicts and things are done, Presidents must have the cooperation of the other branches of government.
There are at least eight prototypes being built. It seems likely that some form of the wall will be erected.
What has caused people to dogmatically state that Mexico won’t pay for it is the flat out refusal of the Mexican government to acknowledge even consideration of transferring one peso over for the construction of a wall. That was understood clearly by Trumps base from the beginning. Trumps base clearly believes and has always believed that Trump would negotiate and cleverly out maneuver the Mexican government in trade deals which would result in a positive net income balance in the favor of the US, which would then be used to build the wall. Nobody ever expected the Mexicans to write a check.
And the prediction: Trumps base will gleefully continue to chant : “Build That Wall” well into his second term of office if the economic indicators continue to be favorable. He has already been in office one year longer than anybody thought he would.
flowerseverywhere
1-18-18, 11:04am
Well let me make a few observations and then a prediction.
Trumps first and clearly boldest statement on the wall was made in his announcement to run speech at which time any candidate can rightfully claim they could not possibly have been fully informed. Especially one campaigning as an outsider.
The wall “promise” can be spun by supporters and has been that it is more correctly characterized as his “intention”. Kings issue edicts and things are done, Presidents must have the cooperation of the other branches of government.
There are at least eight prototypes being built. It seems likely that some form of the wall will be erected.
What has caused people to dogmatically state that Mexico won’t pay for it is the flat out refusal of the Mexican government to acknowledge even consideration of transferring one peso over for the construction of a wall. That was understood clearly by Trumps base from the beginning. Trumps base clearly believes and has always believed that Trump would negotiate and cleverly out maneuver the Mexican government in trade deals which would result in a positive net income balance in the favor of the US, which would then be used to build the wall. Nobody ever expected the Mexicans to write a check.
And the prediction: Trumps base will gleefully continue to chant : “Build That Wall” well into his second term of office if the economic indicators continue to be favorable. He has already been in office one year longer than anybody thought he would.
Very sensible comment. However, read comments on sites like Fox and Facebook and responses to Trumps tweets and I think you will see a different picture. Many supporters believe there will be a wall entirely across the border and Mexico will indeed write a check. That is the irony. Wishing and hoping for things to be done is highly different from the funding and lawmaking process. Of course, people who watched what has happened to our political parties and their steadfastness against the sitting president regardless whether it is overall good for the country and who have the common sense like you stated would understand that. But I am not sure many Trump voters will accept much less than a great big beautiful wall. Unfortunately, we are just so divided common sense seems to have taken a backseat by both parties.
iris lilies
1-18-18, 11:05am
I always knew SOMETHiNG will be built and Trump will call it The Wall and brag about doing it. And that cant be a surprise because a “wall” can mean any variety of things.
It is important to rememebr that Trump supportors take him seriously but not literally, while Trump haterzzzz take him literally but not seriously.
Very sensible comment. However, read comments on sites like Fox and Facebook and responses to Trumos tweets and I think you will see a different picture. Many supporters believe there will be a wall entirely across the border and Mexico will indeed write a check. That is the irony.
I think the real irony is that the media continues to reinforce the narrative. I listen to MSNBC on satellite radio during my one hour morning and evening commute. I can't remember a one hour block over the past year where we haven't been told the intention is for Mexico to write a check. I think it's intentionally misleading, but maybe that's just me.
Scott Adams in his book Win Bigly stated that "We're going to build a big beautiful wall" was simply a great, easily remembered soundbite that made it clear to trump's supporters that he planned to address undocumented immigration much more effectively and convincingly than Hillary's "I'm going to enact comprehensive immigration reform" or whatever she actually said. Whether it ends up being a fence or whatever, if the number of undocumented people coming to the US is significantly reduced I doubt his supporters will care what it is.
Know your audience; speak in sentences with words of one syllable.
Know your audience; speak in sentences with words of one syllable.
Yes, that's always been a successful strategy, limiting your message to one or two syllable words.
"If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor"
"I did not have sexual relations with that woman"
"You could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables" (to be fair, half of that audience probably had to sound out the 4 syllable ending but everyone got the meaning and after all this time still parrots it. Very effective!)
flowerseverywhere
1-18-18, 1:11pm
I think the real irony is that the media continues to reinforce the narrative. I listen to MSNBC on satellite radio during my one hour morning and evening commute. I can't remember a one hour block over the past year where we haven't been told the intention is for Mexico to write a check. I think it's intentionally misleading, but maybe that's just me.
Of course. They are not o terested in reporting news but spinning the story so they can make money.
Williamsmith
1-18-18, 1:19pm
Say what you will but Trump has made politics a topic of discussion in Board Rooms and trailer parks across the fruited plains. You can’t accuse Americans of being detached, apathetic or indifferent.
It is important to rememebr that Trump supportors take him seriously but not literally, while Trump haterzzzz take him literally but not seriously.
That is a very insightful remark.
iris lilies
1-18-18, 2:34pm
That is a very insightful remark.
Yes, I recognized the wisdom when some pundit said it, so I have filed it away.it aint original to me!
A Democrat just took a State Senate seat away from the GOP in a Wisconsin district that went pretty decisively for Trump in 2016. She didn't do it by apocalyptic denunciations of Trump and his deplorables. She didn't preen and virtue-signal and hashtag. She organized well and focused on local issues.
Personally, I think there is a lesson in that for both parties.
frugal-one
1-18-18, 4:24pm
Yes, that's always been a successful strategy, limiting your message to one or two syllable words.
"If you like your doctor, you can keep your doctor"
"I did not have sexual relations with that woman"
"You could put half of Trump's supporters into what I call the basket of deplorables" (to be fair, half of that audience probably had to sound out the 4 syllable ending but everyone got the meaning and after all this time still parrots it. Very effective!)
It is documented that Trump speaks at a 4th grade level....
frugal-one
1-18-18, 4:27pm
Say what you will but Trump has made politics a topic of discussion in Board Rooms and trailer parks across the fruited plains. You can’t accuse Americans of being detached, apathetic or indifferent.
This is NOT a good thing!!!! Americans are now thought to be "UGLY Americans" because of Trump. I am not going to plan any out of country trips because of him. Can't wait until he is GONE! Trump has the lowest rating EVER in all the world leaders. That says it all.
frugal-one
1-18-18, 4:29pm
It is important to rememebr that Trump supportors take him seriously but not literally, while Trump haterzzzz take him literally but not seriously.
This is sad that the President cannot be taken literally. That says a lot about the man.
frugal-one
1-18-18, 4:30pm
A Democrat just took a State Senate seat away from the GOP in a Wisconsin district that went pretty decisively for Trump in 2016. She didn't do it by apocalyptic denunciations of Trump and his deplorables. She didn't preen and virtue-signal and hashtag. She organized well and focused on local issues.
Personally, I think there is a lesson in that for both parties.
I agree!
Williamsmith
1-18-18, 4:32pm
It is documented that Trump speaks at a 4th grade level....
This is very fortunate because the average America reads at a fourth grade level. And the ones that don’t, don’t read at all.
Williamsmith
1-18-18, 4:33pm
This is NOT a good thing!!!! Americans are now thought to be "UGLY Americans" because of Trump. I am not going to plan any out of country trips because of him. Can't wait until he is GONE! Trump has the lowest rating EVER in all the world leaders. That says it all.
May I suggest a visit to Russia. I understand they like him there.
Williamsmith
1-18-18, 4:35pm
I agree!
Yes, don’t hold your elections in the dead of winter in Wisconsin. Nobody can get out of their trailer court to vote.
flowerseverywhere
1-18-18, 4:47pm
Yes, don’t hold your elections in the dead of winter in Wisconsin. Nobody can get out of their trailer court to vote.
That is an unkind remark. Some people can only afford a trailer. Many areas of Wisconsin have fine homes, beautiful farms and nice cities. Like everywhere else in this country
Yes, don’t hold your elections in the dead of winter in Wisconsin. Nobody can get out of their trailer court to vote.
People who live in decadent tropical paradises like Pennsylvania often misunderestimate the ingrained toughness of the Wisconsinite. We simply put our trailers on skis and have our children drag us where we need to go.
Williamsmith
1-18-18, 4:58pm
That is an unkind remark. Some people can only afford a trailer. Many areas of Wisconsin have fine homes, beautiful farms and nice cities. Like everywhere else in this country
My son lives in a trailer....of the 1970s vintage, compliments of his Ebenezer Scrooge Tool & Die Shop owner who pays him crap wages while he himself lives in a mansion with an army of muscle cars and man toys but I digress. I love Wisconsin.
Williamsmith
1-18-18, 4:59pm
People who live in decadent tropical paradises like Pennsylvania often misunderestimate the ingrained toughness of the Wisconsinite. We simply put our trailers on skis and have our children drag us where we need to go.
touche’
flowerseverywhere
1-18-18, 5:01pm
I always knew SOMETHiNG will be built and Trump will call it The Wall and brag about doing it. And that cant be a surprise because a “wall” can mean any variety of things.
It is important to rememebr that Trump supportors take him seriously but not literally, while Trump haterzzzz take him literally but not seriously.
That is untrue. There is no all when it comes to Trump supporters or those who dislike him. Some do not like his tweeting and name calling, yet feel that he will build a wall. Others understand the scope of such a project would be near impossible. Some despise him as a person but feel like he is better than Hillary would have been, and are eyeing their net worth and are quite happy to put up with the shenanigans. The labels liberal or conservative don’t mean one stringent set of values. We are all better than that.
I just cannot understand why everyone wants ro paint liberals, women, conservatives, Democrats, men, LGBT with such a broad brush. The vast majority of Americans want to do what is right for this country. Of course there is the far right and far left. There are people who would be happy if all the Muslims were put in concentration camps, and even people who were allowed to stay here for 30 years were deported without a second thought. And kids and moms separated at the border and put in separate detention centers. Or shot on sight if they approach the border. There are people who want open borders and sanctuary cities and “free” medical care for all. I suspect the vast majority of us are in the middle. Sensible immigration reform. Some type of wall in some areas. A welfare system that helps people get back on their feet but does not make whole swaths of people dependent on the system. It saddens me we are so divided and reduced to labels and name calling.
Williamsmith
1-18-18, 5:07pm
Do you think maybe we could compromise and build an intermittent wall sort of like a plinko board. If you enter it’s a gamble where you will end up. New Jersey? Or Texas? Nebraska? Or Wisconsin? Or maybe the White House lawn.
Trump has the lowest rating EVER in all the world leaders. That says it all.
Ever?
I'll have to add that to my list of indisputable facts I've read on the internet.
Teacher Terry
1-18-18, 5:43pm
The newspaper is written at the 5th grade level because that is the reading level of the average American. WS: your son should move to Milwaukee and he would be making great $ as a tool and die maker. My ex had a master's degree in math and made way more $ doing tool and die. He would work weekends and not have to work. Just read a book waiting for the line to go down and he would fix it. During the week he had to work of course. That job supported 5 of us and paid for all 4 of my college degrees. YOur son lives in a small town and the rural areas just don't pay. Yes I think Democrats need to change strategy because too many uneducated people are getting a kick out of seeing a moron like Trump in power.
frugal-one
1-18-18, 9:04pm
May I suggest a visit to Russia. I understand they like him there.
Yes, he is probably collaborating with them.
frugal-one
1-18-18, 9:08pm
This is very fortunate because the average America reads at a fourth grade level. And the ones that don’t, don’t read at all.
You would think our President would act more intelligent and act the part of President. It makes one wonder if he has the mental capacity required to do the job.
frugal-one
1-18-18, 9:09pm
Yes, don’t hold your elections in the dead of winter in Wisconsin. Nobody can get out of their trailer court to vote.
Same could be said for Penns Woods!
frugal-one
1-18-18, 9:14pm
My son lives in a trailer....of the 1970s vintage, compliments of his Ebenezer Scrooge Tool & Die Shop owner who pays him crap wages while he himself lives in a mansion with an army of muscle cars and man toys but I digress. I love Wisconsin.
Don't expect your son to do better. The Wage and Hour laws are being eliminated by the current administration. The rich will get richer and the poor will not fare well.
frugal-one
1-18-18, 9:15pm
Do you think maybe we could compromise and build an intermittent wall sort of like a plinko board. If you enter it’s a gamble where you will end up. New Jersey? Or Texas? Nebraska? Or Wisconsin? Or maybe the White House lawn.
Just saw on BBC that the concrete for the wall Trump wants to build is from a company in Israel.... with supposed ties to the Kushner family. Doesn't sound right, does it?
Just saw on BBC that the concrete for the wall Trump wants to build is from a company in Israel.... with supposed ties to the Kushner family. What do you make of that???????
I’m trying to imagine a situation where it would make any sense to shop *concrete* from Israel to build walls here in the USA. It might well make sense to hire an Israeli *engineering* firm for some of the design/supervisory work though.
Do you have a link to the story?
frugal-one
1-18-18, 9:23pm
I’m trying to imagine a situation where it would make any sense to shop *concrete* from Israel to build walls here in the USA. It might well make sense to hire an Israeli *engineering* firm for some of the design/supervisory work though.
Do you have a link to the story?
I saw this on tv.. BBC news and I have it wrong.... it is a firm firm from Israel (not necessarily concrete) that is affiliated with the Kushner family??? That is all the info that was given. Just don't understand why Israel is involved at all? We have contractors and engineers here that could do the job required. Hopefully, the stupid wall will not be built anyway.
Just don't understand why Israel is involved at all? We have contractors and engineers here that could do the job required.
Globalization.
Israeli firms have considerable experience designing and building the sort of wall that keeps people from crossing borders.
https://loralucero.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/apartheid-wall.jpg
ToomuchStuff
1-19-18, 3:14am
You would think our President would act more intelligent and act the part of President. It makes one wonder if he has the mental capacity required to do the job.
What mental capacity to do the job?
Section 1 of Article Two of the United States Constitution sets forth the eligibility requirements for serving as president of the United States:
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
What mental capacity to do the job?
Section 1 of Article Two of the United States Constitution sets forth the eligibility requirements for serving as president of the United States:
No Person except a natural born Citizen, or a Citizen of the United States, at the time of the Adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the Office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that Office who shall not have attained to the Age of thirty five Years, and been fourteen Years a Resident within the United States.
I don’t remember seeing his birth certificate. Are we sure he wasn’t born in Kenya? Or Moscow?
Williamsmith
1-19-18, 9:36am
I don’t remember seeing his birth certificate. Are we sure he wasn’t born in Kenya? Or Moscow?
Yes! And how do we know he doesn’t pay taxes in Russia? We never saw his tax returns......
iris lilies
1-19-18, 9:45am
Yes! And how do we know he doesn’t pay taxes in Russia? We never saw his tax returns......
Hahaha!
frugal-one
1-19-18, 11:14am
Yes! And how do we know he doesn’t pay taxes in Russia? We never saw his tax returns......
I wouldn't doubt it. I saw in two places today that Trump (verbally heard on tape) that when he was trying to borrow money for his business said "I don't have to go to the banks to borrow. I just go to the Russians." Also, another place said there was "opaque" information of dealings Trump had with Russia. We DEFINITELY need to see his tax returns!
frugal-one
1-19-18, 11:16am
Globalization.
Israeli firms have considerable experience designing and building the sort of wall that keeps people from crossing borders.
https://loralucero.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/apartheid-wall.jpg
What a coincidence... he just made Jerusalem the capital and is taking sides....
IF THIS STUPID WALL gets erected, at least we could give the contract to our own country.
I saw in two places today that Trump (verbally heard on tape) that when he was trying to borrow money for his business said "I don't have to go to the banks to borrow. I just go to the Russians." Also, another place said there was "opaque" information of dealings Trump had with Russia.
That reminds me of something I saw in multiple places recently:
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/201/185/19b.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiiz7iaqeTYAhULGKwKHV5VAGEQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fknowyourmeme.com%2Fphotos%2F12011 85-troll-quotes&psig=AOvVaw0Er1PMDS-irRO7hD9v3yob&ust=1516461398387685)
Williamsmith
1-19-18, 11:20am
I’m pretty sure Abe invented the Internet, well.....he facilitated the creation of the Internet...my bad.
frugal-one
1-19-18, 1:50pm
That reminds me of something I saw in multiple places recently:
http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/201/185/19b.jpg (http://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiiz7iaqeTYAhULGKwKHV5VAGEQjRwIBw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fknowyourmeme.com%2Fphotos%2F12011 85-troll-quotes&psig=AOvVaw0Er1PMDS-irRO7hD9v3yob&ust=1516461398387685)
FYI ... The information that I saw in two places was NOT on the internet. I do not belong or read anything on Facebook if that is what you are implying. Like Williamsmith, I was in law enforcement (albeit at a higher level) and try to look critically at information provided. There are times, when Trump would sue if he could prove the information was incorrect. All he does, however, is say "Fake News!" That should tell you he can't prove otherwise.
Williamsmith
1-19-18, 2:30pm
FYI ... The information that I saw in two places was NOT on the internet. I do not belong or read anything on Facebook if that is what you are implying. Like Williamsmith, I was in law enforcement (albeit at a higher level) and try to look critically at information provided. There are times, when Trump would sue if he could prove the information was incorrect. All he does, however, is say "Fake News!" That should tell you he can't prove otherwise.
What is your resume in law enforcement? I am dying to know. Seriously!
I was in law enforcement (albeit at a higher level)....
What is your resume in law enforcement? I am dying to know. Seriously!
I'm curious as well, I spent the first 6 years of my professional life in law enforcement before moving over to the corporate side. I can usually spot a fellow traveler but you got past me.
frugal-one
1-19-18, 5:01pm
What is your resume in law enforcement? I am dying to know. Seriously!
pm sent
gimmethesimplelife
1-20-18, 2:14pm
Full disclosure here - I have not read through all the responses and this post is based on the original post. That stated, my question is this: Is it not the President's job, regardless of political orientation, to be as fully informed as possible? In this case, would it not have been wiser to find out the facts, such as costs/terrain restrictions/costs of settling lawsuits, just the costs and hassles surrounding such a project BEFORE presenting The Wall as a solution to the President's fan base?
Seems like common sense to me..............Rob
gimmethesimplelife
1-20-18, 2:16pm
I'm curious as well, I spent the first 6 years of my professional life in law enforcement before moving over to the corporate side. I can usually spot a fellow traveler but you got past me.Thank You. This explains a lot. I can now understand (though of course I don't agree with) your numerous pro law enforcement posts - with your background I can at least understand your auto-siding with the police/minimizing their misdeeds. Rob
Thank You. This explains a lot. I can now understand (though of course I don't agree with) your numerous pro law enforcement posts - with your background I can at least understand your auto-siding with the police/minimizing their misdeeds. Rob
You misunderstand Rob, looking at both sides of any incident doesn't equal "auto-siding", that's the act of a reasonable person. You might also recognize a reasonable person if you ever make it onto a jury. The reasonable ones will be the majority who don't automatically vote for acquittal, regardless of facts.
Teacher Terry
1-20-18, 2:31pm
Rob, a normal President thinks before he speaks. Trump is so unqualified for the job it is not funny. Therefore, there is nothing normal about him. He just spews whatever stupid, hateful thing that springs into his tiny, little mind.
gimmethesimplelife
1-20-18, 2:49pm
Rob, a normal President thinks before he speaks. Trump is so unqualified for the job it is not funny. Therefore, there is nothing normal about him. He just spews whatever stupid, hateful thing that springs into his tiny, little mind.TT, here I could not agree with you more! I've already posted today about the concept of a "filter"- I truly wish Donald J. Trump had a filter between his thoughts and whatever verbiage comes flying out of his mouth. I'm not seeing it if such a filter exists in his case. Rob
frugal-one
1-20-18, 3:45pm
The sign seen recently said.... "Tweet others as you would want to be tweeted!"
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