Why I Don’t Recycle

[Williamsmith]

Yesterday I attended my Home Owners Association board meeting as I try to do on occasion. For those of you who haven’t had the pleasure, living in a condo has its pros and cons. I would say the HOA is a definite con.

Anyway, I managed to make it to the last item on the agenda without pissing anybody off. Don’t scoff, that is a real achievement for me. I dutifully kept my mouth shut as my wife requested. My career didn’t exactly develop negotiation and compromise skills in me. A guy with a uniform, gun and handcuffs and 4000 members of a law enforcement gang backing him up doesn’t have to listen to the other side. He might pretend just to humor you but in the end...well like I said , handcuffs.

But everything was going just to smooth. The last item was recycling, and the board secretary clears her throat and starts in. “I want to address the board about the county shutting down its recycling center. Where am I going to get rid of my recyclables? I think it is incumbent on everyone to recycle. I feel it’s no less of a duty than voting.”

I bit my tongue. And I almost thought I made it when they started talking about mandating everyone pay an extra $20/ mo. For a large blue bin that I can’t even fit in my garage yet I’m required to have it there. Then they started discussing putting a dumpster in the community that would attract bees and bears and people ....some would toss crap in and some would scatter crap across the streets and lawns.

I have done some organized crime crime investigations in my day and it is no secret the mob loves waste removal companies. And recycling is not a regulated activity. In essence, there is little reason to believe your recyclables make it to a new product and quite frankly a guarantee that 1/3 of it goes to the landfill.

In fact, plastic is no longer a viable candidate for recycling. Neither is cardboard. It actually is worse for the environment to recycle these due to the “carbon footprint” needed to process them. And I said so. Yes, out loud. You would have thought I just stepped outside and shot the neighbors dog.

Now dont get me wrong. If you want to recycle....as long as I’m not footing the bill, knock yourself out. And so that is what we agreed to. She could negotiate with the trash company to take her recyclables to wherever they take them and she can pay them the outrageous fees. Hey, if it makes her sleep well at night.....

http://www.plasticpollutioncoalition.org/pft/2016/2/10/is-it-time-to-rethink-recycling

[Teacher Terry]

When I lived in a condo I did not have a garage. I kept my recycling in the extra bedroom and then took it to a place on my way to work. Now we get provided with a big container and our garbage has been greatly reduced.

[catherine]

Haha.. Funny, WS! I have to say I agree with you in a certain respect. The idea is:

refuse
reduce
reuse +repair
recycle
rot

"Recycle" should be at the bottom of the list for plastic. Obviously it's not going to rot very easily, or at least for a very long time.

So I would agree that people who buy 48-packs of bottled water at Costco and then get sanctimonious about recycling are a little misguided. And I'm not even taking into consideration the Sopranos scenario.

If people are serious about the environmental impact of plastic, they wouldn't use it, or they would reduce their use of it drastically. I've read bloggers who have been able to go plastic-free. I don't have that degree of ambition, but it shows that use of plastic is a choice that makes us feel better when green truck comes around

[bae]

I don’t bother to recycle here anymore. The recycle-nazis have taken over the operation of our local transfer station/waste handling facility. They even got the county to tax us for their private benefit. Yay.

I figure those landfills are a form of recycling _ at some point in the distant future, they will be valuable concentrati)has of resources and mined and processed. Until then, I’m not wearing a hair shirt.

[BikingLady]

I understand. I being told what to do....I do not work well with that. On the recycling topic. I have recycled for gosh 25-30 years, every type way offered I think. No need to rehash the past, so here is todays option. I pay for trash pick up 6 bags a week in the provided can to set by the road. I am allowed as many however clear plastic bags as I would want to put out, I buy the bags. Then one truck comes along and YEP all tossed in back. So my hard work of sorting, separating and buying the bags IMO meant nothing. I have been told it is sorted later somewhere. I do not believe it is unless the entire truck full of trash is picked through. SO I stopped. Feel bad yes, but My small tiny bag each wee is not saving the world when the restaurants for one are tossing #10 tins by the dozens.

I do flatten all cardboard and take tit to the cardboard recycling up the road as Amazon boxes pile up.

[Rogar]

My cycling center buses in disabled people who help unload cars and do basic sorting. They charge a dollar a load and it's about 10 blocks from my house. I can't think of any reason not to recycle. They take plastic, cardboard, junk mail, and charge a small fee for electronics. I have no idea where it all ends up, but it run by some decent young people who seem like they are doing it to try to make a difference.

I guess an HMO is like a mini democracy where the will of the people rules, with some guidelines. I can see the point of not wanting to be forced into recycling with an additional expense.

[BikingLady]

I will add I think since the stuff is shoved at use and everything basically comes in packaging, the companies should be regulated in packaging reduction. IDK

[razz]

There is less demand for recyclables since China is reducing the amount that they will accept. This Forbes story seems to give a balanced picture on the dilemma we are facing. Some solutions are suggested which is good.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2017/11/16/china-will-no-longer-take-our-recycled-junk/#4ba89e8f2122

[Williamsmith]

Before anyone jumps in and gets critical of me.....I want to assert I’m not a wreck the creation slob. I give a read to anything that has a viewpoint. And I read this article that does acknowledge recycling is not the panecea Americans think it is, in fact it mostly appeals to affluent Americans who feel guilty about their environmental footprint.....just like my HOA Secretary. It’s more a religion than an understanding of fact.

But more to the point, we ought to move past the dinosaur we call recycling and consider our consumption. It’s like sitting down with four other people at Thanksgiving dinner with one pie and saying, “I’m eating 3/4 of this pie just because I can.”

I guess the term, “decoupling” is a buzzword for this. It has to do with reducing the direct influence consumption has on economic activity. I believe with our economy growing (my opinion, I know) we will se an uptick in consumption and a bumper crop of waste and futile recycling attempts. Recycling that actually causes environmental damage in the form of waste water, etc.

As highlighted by this article:

https://www.alternet.org/environment/if-recycling-doesnt-actually-help-planet-then-what-should-we-do

[Teacher Terry]

Our products come with a ridiculous amount of packaging. I also do not buy water in plastic bottles. What about filling a travel mug with water when you are going places.

[sweetana3]

We have a situation here which is good. One of our local scrap metal places takes the metal trash our group brings in and pays us for it. It can be cans, washing machines, tin foil, etc. Each month the group has raised about $500 or so for the animal cause they work for.

By the way, a lot of plastic packaging is there to deter shoplifters. More for higher end things of small things other than groceries where it is clearly more marketing.

[catherine]

There is less demand for recyclables since China is reducing the amount that they will accept. This Forbes story seems to give a balanced picture on the dilemma we are facing. Some solutions are suggested which is good.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesconca/2017/11/16/china-will-no-longer-take-our-recycled-junk/#4ba89e8f2122

Yes, just saw this on my FB news feed: https://mobile.nytimes.com/2018/01/11/world/china-recyclables-ban.html?referer=http%3A%2F%2Fm.facebook.com%2F

How ridiculous is it that we send our crap to China to sort?

[Williamsmith]

Our products come with a ridiculous amount of packaging. I also do not buy water in plastic bottles. What about filling a travel mug with water when you are going places.

I am torn. I agree. I have fallen victim of the convenience of the plastic bottle. But on the other hand as Bae points out. Could the landfill be the future place we mine for petroleum products? If that’s the case, then we would be reducing our retirement contributions......hmmmm?

[razz]

If we watch what we purchase, it means less to dispose of however it is done. i went by our local Walmart and the parking lot was almost as busy as at Christmas time. What is everyone buying keeping the stores so busy? I bought some stamps, socks, fruit, milk and came home. Others were going out with full shopping carts.

[Gardenarian]

OUr recycling company used to take everything, but they have been cutting back a lot. Cardboard is still taken, but we're going to have to pay to have plastics recycled.

Oregon recently passed a bottle bill with a deposit of .10 on every bottle - the street people are cleaning up, literally and figuratively.

[ToomuchStuff]

Metal recycling is still the most viable. At a house where I have done pet sitting, I have watched as the bins that are paid for, by taxes, in that city, for recycling, are placed at the curb, and there are times when they are picked up and thrown in the same landfill truck as the non recyclable.
Also I think it was Bae that mentioned future recycling/mining operations. Until that point I am reminded of some uses that landfills have become over the world.
http://www.golf.com/photos/waste-not-want-not#1
http://www.billycasperdigitalnetwork.com/courses/the-perils-of-building-a-golf-course-on-a-former-landfill
https://www.alpineinitiatives.org/blogs/journal/77428353-landfill-to-ski-hill

I figure at some point, people will look at these area's, as potential reforestation area's, as well as area's for groups like NASA, to see/test teraforming idea's (dealing with other/toxic environments).

[jp1]

The part i dont get about recycling is when people dont have curbside pickup and have to drive their own stuff to the recycling facility. How can it be even vaguely logical for every person to drive to the recycling place with a bag of plastic.

[goldensmom]

The part i dont get about recycling is when people dont have curbside pickup and have to drive their own stuff to the recycling facility. How can it be even vaguely logical for every person to drive to the recycling place with a bag of plastic.

We used to have curbside recycling then a new company took over trash pick up and we have to buy recycle bags or take recycle to a recycle center nearly 20 miles from our house. There were many recycle totes set out on trash pick up day with curbside service but I have not seen one recycle bag set out since the change in companies. Also, the cost of trash service is more with the new company….more money, less service. We were avid recyclers but do not recycle now.

[Chicken lady]

This thread is hard for me to read and I should probably stay out of it, but I can’t help reading.

waste is a really big trigger for me on the hoarding. The ability to recycle (misguided or not, and I do read a lot and am not settled on the issue) has made a big impact on my ability to let things go. The situation with plastics and China actually has me very stressed.

some of you may remember that I cancelled my trash service almost a year ago. I struggle to reduce the intake of material I will not be keeping. Styrofoam and food packaging are the biggest difficulties. Currently I am dropping recycling at a community “single stream” recycling point and hoping for the best.

i try to keep organic matter from leaving my property. This includes most cardboard - which I use as underlayment for mulch.

i am attempting to return my trash to point of purchase - for example, when I go to the grocery store, I drop a plastic bag of food packaging trash in the trash can out front. I have no concerns about this because the cans are clearly for customers, I am a customer, and the trash was provided to me by the store in spite of my best efforts to avoid it. If they want to pass the cost of trash disposal on to shoppers, i’m Ok with that too. It brings the “true cost” closer to the consumer.

i also burn some “trash” such as wood scrap, waxed or food contaminated paper, and low grade paper (used in starting the wood stove)

[Ultralight]

This thread is hard for me to read and I should probably stay out of it, but I can’t help reading.

I knew you would jump in soon enough.

[Chicken lady]

You have any *helpful* feedback UL?

I did read and think about williamsmith’s Links.

also, while i’m here - plastic bottles - one thing that has helped me feel like I have made a change in my impact is that I will no longer drink bottled water (or coffee made from bottled water, which was a sad change for me at the food bank) unless I am actually dehydrated and it is my only choice - and I work to avoid that situation.

[Tybee]

Cl, when we lived in the country and did not have trash pickup, we followed most of what you say here--and in fact, the habits carried over so that we do all these things to, as a better way of living on our little piece of the earth.
Thanks for your good thoughtful synopsis.
We also use cardboard to line garden beds and start new beds.
I have also added Bae's suggestion to this and when I get Amazon boxes, use the give back box to purge items from the house to give to Goodwill.

[Tybee]

williamsmith, I also wanted to add that when I was first married, we lived in a condo, and once was enough--could not get out of there fast enough. You could title this thread "Why I don't Live in a Condo", too!

[catherine]

As much as I like Costco, I'm dismayed at the packaging of some of their products. DH loves the "simmer in bag" lamb shanks for instance, but they are sold in a plastic bag, placed in a thick plastic tray, covered in a paper sleeve, and then the whole thing is shrink-wrapped in plastic. I tried saving those trays for storing leftovers, but how many do you need?

If I were to get serious about my consumption of recyclables, I'd have to sacrifice some really good, easy dinner options that we've grown accustomed to. Convenience always has a price.

[Williamsmith]

As a struggling minimalist and a seeker of simple living, I have to look in the mirror at times and then look at facts and change my behavior. Sorting fact from fiction is my challenge because due to my vocation .....fact is a necessarily high bar to meet.

In my research it appears that the fact is, many people are misguided in their attempts to recycle everything and may actually be making things worse rather than better. This morning I took two plastic bottles to the gym with me. One with water, one with vitamin water zero. Both bottles will be sitting in a landfill within two weeks. The water bottle claims to be recyclable and has that nifty triangle with arrows going in a circle. That triangle tends to make a person feel better about tossing it in the recyclable bin but the cap and the label are not recyclable.

The vitamin zero water also has the triangle and funny enough this, “Cuddle time is over, rise and shine!” I’ve never noticed that. Now in my neighborhood in order for those bottles to get back on the shelf as another product....a myriad of things have to happen. I have to collect them, strip the label off and remove the cap. Most people don’t do that. I have to transport them in a gas driven car to a single stream collection location possibly 10-20 miles away. A diesel powered truck with a driver have to take the bottles at the collection site to a sorting site.....50 miles away. Sorters have to go through the stuff on a conveyer belt .......I mean think of all the energy that is needed to even make it happen.

So thta brings me to my consumption. As an entry level minimalist I focused on the things I possessed. What could I rid myself of maintaining, what didn’t I need. But what about the things that simply pass through your hands?

[gimmethesimplelife]

Recycling. Oh wow! This topic brings to mind myself at a much younger age - 24 - fresh out of college and having just moved to Portland, Oregon, back in the day before it was so expensive (1991). Everyone I ran across there was really into recycling and I became this way, too - not just because of the environment but because I was in the midst of a population with a sane cost of living and somewhat reasonable wages with a much higher percentage of the population not living in terror of being on the streets should they become ill (due to a higher percentage of the population having health insurance than in Arizona).

I took recycling to heart as a badge of living somewhere with a much higher quality of life than I was used to. To me recycling approached a moral obligation to justify living somewhere that at the time was a much better deal than what I was used to. It was as if recycling approached voting for me - in the sense of if you don't vote you should not complain - but in the case of recycling - if you don't recycle, you have not earned the right to live in Portland.

Well, flash forward to all these years later and I would not live in Portland now - it's too expensive and I believe that high cost of living locations tend to bring out some of the worst qualities human beings have to offer. So Portland is off the table for me, breathtakingly beautiful though it is. But I still recycle and it's something I believe is just the right thing to do - but this recent decision by China to not take our recyclables really depresses me. Where are our recyclables going to go now and is this it for the whole concept? And if plastics are not taken - great - they take forever to break down in landfills. Just great.

Amazingly enough here in Phoenix all plastics are still being taken for curbside recycling, but I question both for how much longer and I question too at this point - will they even find new lives or will they end out in a landfill now? Recycling once seemed to me almost pure in nature, now like almost everything else, it seems fraught with issues and complications. Rob

[Tybee]

As a struggling minimalist and a seeker of simple living, I have to look in the mirror at times and then look at facts and change my behavior. Sorting fact from fiction is my challenge because due to my vocation .....fact is a necessarily high bar to meet.

In my research it appears that the fact is, many people are misguided in their attempts to recycle everything and may actually be making things worse rather than better. This morning I took two plastic bottles to the gym with me. One with water, one with vitamin water zero. Both bottles will be sitting in a landfill within two weeks. The water bottle claims to be recyclable and has that nifty triangle with arrows going in a circle. That triangle tends to make a person feel better about tossing it in the recyclable bin but the cap and the label are not recyclable.

The vitamin zero water also has the triangle and funny enough this, “Cuddle time is over, rise and shine!” I’ve never noticed that. Now in my neighborhood in order for those bottles to get back on the shelf as another product....a myriad of things have to happen. I have to collect them, strip the label off and remove the cap. Most people don’t do that. I have to transport them in a gas driven car to a single stream collection location possibly 10-20 miles away. A diesel powered truck with a driver have to take the bottles at the collection site to a sorting site.....50 miles away. Sorters have to go through the stuff on a conveyer belt .......I mean think of all the energy that is needed to even make it happen.

So thta brings me to my consumption. As an entry level minimalist I focused on the things I possessed. What could I rid myself of maintaining, what didn’t I need. But what about the things that simply pass through your hands?

I think this is actually Chicken Lady's position, and always has been. If you read through her posts about trash and recycling, she has a heightened awareness of this and is very careful to avoid taking trash in. It is an admirable way to behave, as a steward of the earth, in my opinion.

[Rogar]

I have a friend who has got through a few phases of "zero landfill waste", and I recall a women on the forums that I think was trying that challenge. Some of it obviously involves recycling and probably some composting, but at least for my friend there were also a lot of purchasing choices, like buying bulk and reusing things and probably avoiding some purchases. I don't know if it's common, but I always rinse out my zip locks and reuse them. He even said he reused parchment paper. (I do suspect he snuck a bag into his neighbors waste once in a while.) It seems slightly extreme to me, but i can see less total waste as a better ambition than maximizing recycling.

My former employer has also taken a "zero landfill waste" pledge. There are probably some conundrums with personal recycling, but in volume for a big company it is probably at least a break even proposition?

I suspect there will always be a recycling market for most metals and probably glass.

[oldhat]

I recycle, but not fanatically. I'm skeptical of claims that recycling is pointless, but since I haven't made a study of the topic, I have an open mind. Sometimes the reality of things is counter-intuitive. I'm sure that most people think they're doing great things for the environment when they buy a new car because it gets good mileage, without considering the possibility that they could buy a 10-year-old Toyota that would get the same mileage without the added carbon footprint of building a new car.

What people mainly need to do it consume less, period, and I fully support legislation and even peer pressure that encourages that. Passing a law that would put a dollar deposit on all plastic bottles would do more good for the environment that any one person could do in 10,000 lifetimes of recycling. You'd see precious few empty plastic bottles by the side of the road if that were the case.

[Williamsmith]

I recycle, but not fanatically. I'm skeptical of claims that recycling is pointless, but since I haven't made a study of the topic, I have an open mind. Sometimes the reality of things is counter-intuitive. I'm sure that most people think they're doing great things for the environment when they buy a new car because it gets good mileage, without considering the possibility that they could buy a 10-year-old Toyota that would get the same mileage without the added carbon footprint of building a new car.

What people mainly need to do it consume less, period, and I fully support legislation and even peer pressure that encourages that. Passing a law that would put a dollar deposit on all plastic bottles would do more good for the environment that any one person could do in 10,000 lifetimes of recycling. You'd see precious few empty plastic bottles by the side of the road if that were the case.

Dont you view legislating “carbon” taxes on plastic bottles as onerous and overstepping the boundaries of public safety legislation? Wouldn’t that do what most legislation of this type does....hurt the low income population. I view peer pressure in the same light as I view trespassing on property. Wouldn’t it make more sense to spend the resources to educate people rather than impose your will on them. Didn’t we learn anything from prohibition laws and the war on drugs?

[Float On]

Curbside isn't offered in our area.
We don't have trash service but take our own to the transfer station about every 6-8 weeks for $5.
I compost.
We collect our recycling out in the studio in big rubbermaid bins and take glass, paper, cardboard, plastic 1-5 (up from just 3-4), metal cans to the recycle center. They can't accept shredded paper and neither can our big trash service recycle pick up at the church. They provide a nice "How to recycle almost everything" list https://www.bransonmo.gov/DocumentCenter/View/696 and there are always follow up articles about how much was recycled, where it went, what it became. Apparently our glass goes to make fiberglass insulation.

Interestingly enough when we had our glassblowing studio they couldn't accept our glass scrap. The COE of art glass is usually 90 or 96 and bottle glass is in the 80's.

[oldhat]

Dont you view legislating “carbon” taxes on plastic bottles as onerous and overstepping the boundaries of public safety legislation?

No. Or, to be more precise, I support the idea of using legislation to promote behavior that mitigates environmental damage. The precise nature of that legislation can be debated. All legislation seems onerous or out of bounds to someone.


Wouldn’t that do what most legislation of this type does....hurt the low income population.

Debatable. In my example, it's a deposit, not a fine. Everybody--poor people especially--would be much better off if they drank less soda, anyway.


I view peer pressure in the same light as I view trespassing on property. Wouldn’t it make more sense to spend the resources to educate people rather than impose your will on them.

It's not trespassing for an elected government to regulate what people can do with their private property. So far as the environment is concerned, some people still insist on believing that they can do as they please without affecting everyone else. Unfortunately, that's not the world we live in anymore. You're not allowed to pollute the Common.


Didn’t we learn anything from prohibition laws and the war on drugs?

False analogy. While it's true the so-called War on Drugs is an extended exercise in delusional thinking, it's an attempt to regulate private behavior in the face of overwhelming scientific evidence that the cure is much worse than the disease. If you can show me overwhelming scientific evidence that an environmental law does more harm than good, I'll oppose it.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Debatable. In my example, it's a deposit, not a fine. Everybody--poor people especially--would be much better off if they drank less soda, anyway.

how that actually works out is it likely benefits the poor, as they are the one's who collect the plastic bottles and recycle them for money. How it works out middle class people who don't care about recycling for either the money or environmental reasons either, can't be arsed to recycle and throw their bottles in the trash etc.. Other people who need that income go through the trash and take them out to recycle. Or my boyfriend just leaves bottles in visible places and says they will get recycled, I have taken at times to doing that too, because someone will come along and collect them. Utopia perhaps it isn't (I don't think in utopia we would be going through each other's trash for small sums of money) but neither can it be reduced to "hurting the poor" at it probably actually represents a net benefit to them.

[ApatheticNoMore]

The part i dont get about recycling is when people dont have curbside pickup and have to drive their own stuff to the recycling facility. How can it be even vaguely logical for every person to drive to the recycling place with a bag of plastic.

well many cities don't even do trash pick up for apartments, the landlord makes sure that gets done (by scheduling private trash companies), but recycling not so much, very few of them do this.

[Chicken lady]

Rob, nothing breaks down in landfills if the are operating as planned. Nothing.

[catherine]

Well, what a coincidence! This morning was my Master Gardener's class and the topic was Solid Waste Management. 3 hours on landfills and recycling! So now, I am enlightened. I know all about the recycling process from county pick-up to private hauler to private sorter to private processor to private purchaser of neatly baled paper and aluminum and paint and hazardous waste and electronic glass and metals.

At least in New Jersey.

I haven't necessarily changed my mind. I challenged the lecturer's 5 "R"s because instead of the first "R" being "Refuse" she labeled a FIFTH R as "Reject": Choose the more environmentally friendly option over the lesser. So I said, your fifth R implies that you are substituting one purchasing choice for another rather than choosing not to consume at all. And she said, "That's true. I can see how it sounds that way."

And then to hear how many people are involved in the business of recyclables, and how much money there is involved--it corroborated WS's assertion that it takes a village and a large carbon footprint to turn that bottle or that box from Amazon into something somebody will pay for. I suppose having stuff recycle into the free market is better than being in the landfill--or is it?

So, I'm even more sold on the idea of de-coupling. One of the prissy members of the MG group was complaining about the metal components of her electric toothbrush, to which I whispered under my breath to the person sitting next to me, "So don't buy an electric toothbrush."

We have SO far to go in terms of grasping the idea of "enough."

[Williamsmith]

Well, what a coincidence! This morning was my Master Gardener's class and the topic was Solid Waste Management. 3 hours on landfills and recycling! So now, I am enlightened. I know all about the recycling process from county pick-up to private hauler to private sorter to private processor to private purchaser of neatly baled paper and aluminum and paint and hazardous waste and electronic glass and metals.

At least in New Jersey.

I haven't necessarily changed my mind. I challenged the lecturer's 5 "R"s because instead of the first "R" being "Refuse" she labeled a FIFTH R as "Reject": Choose the more environmentally friendly option over the lesser. So I said, your fifth R implies that you are substituting one purchasing choice for another rather than choosing not to consume at all. And she said, "That's true. I can see how it sounds that way."

And then to hear how many people are involved in the business of recyclables, and how much money there is involved--it corroborated WS's assertion that it takes a village and a large carbon footprint to turn that bottle or that box from Amazon into something somebody will pay for. I suppose having stuff recycle into the free market is better than being in the landfill--or is it?

So, I'm even more sold on the idea of de-coupling. One of the prissy members of the MG group was complaining about the metal components of her electric toothbrush, to which I whispered under my breath to the person sitting next to me, "So don't buy an electric toothbrush."

We have SO far to go in terms of grasping the idea of "enough."

I lean towards Bae’s suggestion that these landfills will some day be worth going back and getting the resources. In the meantime, I will do my best to adopt a minimalist attitude and I think I have a lot of room for improvement. Can we have a carbon tax on electric toothbrushes before we do it for bottled water? I don’t use electric toothbrushes.

Okay so I have to go back and do the math but how many bottles of water make up a gallon? And how Many plastic bottles would it take to make up a plastic gallon jug. This is hard work.

I dont drink my tap water. There are too many superfund sites that have polluted the water table. That’s what you get for living in an unpopulated County. The urban areas send their crap to you.

[Teacher Terry]

Here a separate truck picks up recyclable stuff. It showed on the news how it is someone's job to pull off the conveyor belt the stuff in recycling that does not belong there. Even when we didn't have recycling I just took it myself. Travel mugs are great to use in place of plastic bottles. I know the excessive packaging is to prevent stealing but there must be a better way then to enclose stuff in a million layers of plastic crap-ugh!

[catherine]

I lean towards Bae’s suggestion that these landfills will some day be worth going back and getting the resources.

This is scary, but they said that they do archeological digs from time to time in the landfills to see the rate of decomposition and have found perfectly preserved hot dogs. Scary.. if you're a hot dog lover.

As for the water, we sure have our share of Superfund sites in NJ, so I share your concern about drinking tap water.

[catherine]

Here a separate truck picks up recyclable stuff. It showed on the news how it is someone's job to pull off the conveyor belt the stuff in recycling that does not belong there. Even when we didn't have recycling I just took it myself. Travel mugs are great to use in place of plastic bottles. I know the excessive packaging is to prevent stealing but there must be a better way then to enclose stuff in a million layers of plastic crap-ugh!

Here's another thing I learned, which interested me because it's a cause of weekly fights with DH, who throws plastic bags in with the bottles and cans. Apparently, at least in my county, throwing plastic bags in with the recyclables is BAD because it gets caught up in the sorter that thinks it's paper because it's thin, but then the machine breaks down. Or, it makes it through the paper stream and becomes part of the bale, but there is so much plastic bag entwined that it takes a worker one hour out of every day to hand-pick as much plastic as possible out of the bales before they are sent, presumably, to China, where China is now putting their foot down on the amount of contamination they get in their product.

So, if your county is like mine, don't throw your plastic bags in with your recycling. You CAN take them to the supermarket where they have bins for plastic bag recycling, but many counties don't permit #4 or #5 plastic bags in their curbside pickup.

[Williamsmith]

I have no clue but what percentage of the plastic Recyclables we sell to China gets sent back to us in the form of non recyclable plastic packaging in cheap consumables?

The one article I referenced stated that 10% of the recyclable material placed in your blue bin gets sent directly to the landfill and of the 90% left, another 25% gets sorted out for things like contamination. If that is true then fully one third of recycling is useless and customers are paying once for regular trash and a second time to throw “recyclables in their blue bin that is going to be treated like trash and sent to the landfill. So that Is not being too frugal and quite wasteful of your financial resources.

And whatever happened to biodegradable packaging?

[Rogar]

There is an old abandoned landfill nearby that they have developed to capture methane from the decomposing organics. I don't think the technology is up to it becoming profitable and wide spread. And I don't think of it as an excuse to fill landfills with impunity.

[ApatheticNoMore]

They might excavate the landfills but wow would they be toxic if they ever did. People even throw the stuff you really aren't supposed to throw in the trash in there (electronics, paint, serious household chemicals, batteries, etc.),

[Williamsmith]

Well, the real problem is not all people agree that convenience “culture” is unsustainable. And so we have a lag between an organized effort to reduce and a wait for technology mindset.

[ApatheticNoMore]

There is an old abandoned landfill nearby that they have developed to capture methane from the decomposing organics. I don't think the technology is up to it becoming profitable and wide spread. And I don't think of it as an excuse to fill landfills with impunity.

there is of course also the issue that as landfills become filled up they have to truck the garbage to further and further away landfills which is both costly and has a carbon impact. So even if recycling doesn't always solve the problem, filling up the landfills is clearly a bad idea.

[catherine]

And whatever happened to biodegradable packaging?

One of my other classmates (known for annoying and time-consuming anecdotes about how the subject matter relates to her) talked at length about how the snacks that she brought in today were from Whole Foods, and the muffins are wonderful, and vegan mind you, but the "environmentally-friendly" packaging was so bad that the muffins didn't even make it down the belt through the check-out. That's Terrible!

So, it seems there an unmet need in the market for biodegradable packaging that will make it from the Whole Foods display to Recycling Class.

[Williamsmith]

They might excavate the landfills but wow would they be toxic if they ever did. People even throw the stuff you really aren't supposed to throw in the trash in there (electronics, paint, serious household chemicals, batteries, etc.),

People? You mean me and you and all my neighbors because I can’t afford to pay the outrageous costs associated with the “proper” disposal of my mercury vapor lights, used oil, tires, electronics and televisions. Besides, they all end up at the landfill anyway.

[catherine]

People? You mean me and you and all my neighbors because I can’t afford to pay the outrageous costs associated with the “proper” disposal of my mercury vapor lights, used oil, tires, electronics and televisions. Besides, they all end up at the landfill anyway.

Move to Middlesex County where disposal of all those things you mentioned are absolutely free. And they don't wind up in the landfill.

[Williamsmith]

One of my other classmates (known for annoying and time-consuming anecdotes about how the subject matter relates to her) talked at length about how the snacks that she brought in today were from Whole Foods, and the muffins are wonderful, and vegan mind you, but the "environmentally-friendly" packaging was so bad that the muffins didn't even make it down the belt through the check-out. That's Terrible!

So, it seems there an unmet need in the market for biodegradable packaging that will make it from the Whole Foods display to Recycling Class.

Perhpas that’s why I fantasize about a market shift toward local food. A reduced need for bionic packaging that can withstand transportation across the continent. A simple paper bag that I can make a hand puppet out of.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Well, the real problem is not all people agree that convenience “culture” is unsustainable. And so we have a lag between an organized effort to reduce and a wait for technology mindset.

some things are cultural but I don't believe convenience is really a cultural phenomena entirely. Ok many people don't think about packaging, and companies also produce a lot of extra packaging (which may be a large part of the problem what companies produce and packaging that merchants use and so on), but convenience is also a symptom of being overwhelmed.

[Williamsmith]

Move to Middlesex County where disposal of all those things you mentioned are absolutely free. And they don't wind up in the landfill.

Catherine, I know you don’t really believe it’s free. Nothing is FREE!

[ApatheticNoMore]

Move to Middlesex County where disposal of all those things you mentioned are absolutely free. And they don't wind up in the landfill.

I really have no idea if they really end up in the landfill, I haven't investigated that much. If anything it probably ends up in 3rd world countries ... But yes disposal of electronic and other toxic waste is free here (or the city/county pays for it which makes perfect sense if it actually has a benefit of less pollution etc.) but you do have to either take it to an waste disposal place or go to the regular roving events they have for electronic etc. waste disposal. I do. But I also see the apartment dumpster, not everyone is doing that ... that is why I am saying excavating the landfills seems like it will release a lot of toxins (maybe our robot overlords will have it all figured out by then though).

[catherine]

Catherine, I know you don’t really believe it’s free. Nothing is FREE!

OK, yes, my taxes pay for it. True.

[Williamsmith]

i am attempting to return my trash to point of purchase - for example, when I go to the grocery store, I drop a plastic bag of food packaging trash in the trash can out front. I have no concerns about this because the cans are clearly for customers, I am a customer, and the trash was provided to me by the store in spite of my best efforts to avoid it. If they want to pass the cost of trash disposal on to shoppers, i’m Ok with that too. It brings the “true cost” closer to the consumer.

i also burn some “trash” such as wood scrap, waxed or food contaminated paper, and low grade paper (used in starting the wood stove)

Okay, so I read about a group that takes this to a deeper level......they actually unwrap the packaging at checkout and leave it at the store. Oh Boy!

[Rogar]

Twice I have picked local trash collection companies and both time they have been bought up by Waste Management. I don't use curbside recycling, but take them to a separate recycle center. I roughly estimate that my collection fees have increased 50% over the last five or eight years. At first it was a fuel adjustment tax. Now they just bump up the rate every several months. I suspect much of this is due to increased landfill use fees. At my closest landfill the charge for a pickup full of waste loaded bed high is close to $50. I could almost see recycling as one of the tools to unplugging from Waste Management. But it's probably a fact that the more waste we generate the more expensive it's going to be to get rid of.

[Williamsmith]

Switzerland apparently has a waste removal system run by the state government. The only bag you can use for refuse is the official sanctioned state bag. It costs 10 euros for one bag.....I figured that to be $12 ish. So nothing gets thrown away in the trash unless it’s definitely not recyclable. I wonder if there is a black market for counterfeit trash bags?

[catherine]

A little inspiration for y'all. Y'all including me.

https://www.treehugger.com/green-home/10-zero-waste-bloggers-you-should-know.html

[catherine]

Let me just say that it's not a good idea to clean out your refrigerator on the same day you take a recycling class and toggle back and forth on a simple living board on the topic of recycling.

I'm disgusted with myself. A half a pint of pure Vermont maple syrup spilled all over one of the shelves. I had to wipe out two 1/4 full Tostito dip jars to prepare them for recycling. I had to get rid of 3 beautiful but well past prime peppers, a moldy half finished container of sour cream, and a whole bag of Trader Joe moldy spinach, and a couple of cups of dead mushroom soup (homemade). And that's not all.

I tell myself that much of this was leftover from over-shopping for my kids at Christmastime (yes, a month ago, but I've been busy this month), but it still grosses me out and doesn't make me feel good bout my own food waste habits.

[Williamsmith]

Let me just say that it's not a good idea to clean out your refrigerator on the same day you take a recycling class and toggle back and forth on a simple living board on the topic of recycling.

I'm disgusted with myself. A half a pint of pure Vermont maple syrup spilled all over one of the shelves. I had to wipe out two 1/4 full Tostito dip jars to prepare them for recycling. I had to get rid of 3 beautiful but well past prime peppers, a moldy half finished container of sour cream, and a whole bag of Trader Joe moldy spinach, and a couple of cups of dead mushroom soup (homemade). And that's not all.

I tell myself that much of this was leftover from over-shopping for my kids at Christmastime (yes, a month ago, but I've been busy this month), but it still grosses me out and doesn't make me feel good bout my own food waste habits.

Your Welcome!

[flowerseverywhere]

instead of worrying about what happens to your waste when it is trucked away, try producing less

If everyone tried to reduce reduce their consumption as much as possible it would be a huge start

but here is some irony. A bottling company close by bottles our tap water to sell. I know people who won’t drink our water but instead buy plastic bottles of water, who knows where they are bottled and shipped from. Ridiculous. Your city and county should have testing reports of what is in your water.

[Rogar]

Switzerland apparently has a waste removal system run by the state government. The only bag you can use for refuse is the official sanctioned state bag. It costs 10 euros for one bag.....I figured that to be $12 ish. So nothing gets thrown away in the trash unless it’s definitely not recyclable. I wonder if there is a black market for counterfeit trash bags?

There was a Colorado town I know of that tried that for a few years. I don't know the cost or why it was discontinued, but it seemed like a reasonable proposition. At the Euro rate I would swag an estimate that it would reduce my current costs by about half most months, though I get a lot of yard and garden waste in the spring and fall.

[Ultralight]

You have any *helpful* feedback UL?



Well, I think the earth has pretty much been polluted beyond the possibility of repair. So while I am outright trashing the place on my own (though I certainly contribute to much of the pollution) I don't really worry about it.

It is all over by the shouting, CL.

Also: Turning your property into a well-organized or not-so-well organized landfill doesn't really change the situation.

I am not sure how helpful this is. It probably isn't.

Remember that old movie Dr. Strangelove?

The second title of it was: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb.

So I think of our environmental catastrophe like that. Why bother worrying over it. We are all f-cked.

[jp1]

Switzerland apparently has a waste removal system run by the state government. The only bag you can use for refuse is the official sanctioned state bag. It costs 10 euros for one bag.....I figured that to be $12 ish. So nothing gets thrown away in the trash unless it’s definitely not recyclable. I wonder if there is a black market for counterfeit trash bags?

That sounds similar to the concept here. Residents pay for either a really small landfill garbage dumpster, collected once a week, or a much bigger and more expensive one. The small ones look like they might hold two 13 gallon garbage bags. Recycling and compost are collected for free.

[Chicken lady]

I used to live where we paid by the bag for trash. There was more littering. Also, the recycling was free, but there was no paper recycling and everything had to be loose in your bin. the truck stopped and two guys got off and tossed your recycling into the correct sections of truck one item at a time. Anything that didn’t pass, they threw into your yard.

the “unwrap the item at the store” people bug me. Are they making a point? Do they think it’s good to create extra scope creep work for the store employees? Do they really think that if they leave the packaging at the store to be thrown out it “counts against them” less than if they take it home and throw it out? “I produced no trash because I left it a5 the store.” >8)Dude, you paid for it, it’s yours.

Ultralite, surrender is not an option.

also, my friend Shannon pointed out years ago that if I just store the trash at my house, my house becomes the landfill. I am working on it!

[catherine]

Ultralite, surrender is not an option.



+1

[Williamsmith]

CL, I agree. From what I read the “zap unwrappers” feel that the stores have access to trash removal services that individual consumers don’t have and they don’t give them options because they want to maximize their profit instead of show some corporate responsibility for the environment. Not exactly my view, just forwarding their justification.

I did take my first step towards reducing consumption and minimizizing by trash “footprint”. I ordered a straight razor which utilizes recyclable blades. No more plastic one time use safety razors that go straight to the dump. Yeah me! I am an eco crusader.

UL.......you roll over too easily.

[Chicken lady]

My store gives me an option. It’s a trash can by the entrance. I find it easier to unwrap the items at home.

good for you on the straight razor!

dh has recently grown a beard. I hate it. He is touting it as “the environmentally responsible option.” If i wasn’t swimming regularly for exercise i’d be tempted to play “i’ll show you environmentally responsible”....

i use disposable blades with no handle. I am however, tempted by the idea of an old fashioned metal safety razor....

i helped with the cooking king class today. I am still traumatized by the paper plates and plastic forks. I did not, however, save the plastic forks from the trash. I can’t stop thinking about it though.

[Rogar]

I have been shaving with a 1950's Gillette double edged razor I picked up off eBay for years. I get a hundred good quality blades for about $15. from Amazon as the stores don't carry much of anything, which is more than a years supply for me. I wouldn't recycle the blades for safety reason, but it saves a bunch of money and no plastic handles get discarded.

[Williamsmith]

While the razor makes its way to my door, I did some math. The case of 24 bottles of water I have in the garage holds about as much water as three gallon jugs. Since the price of a case is @ $5 and the price of three gallons is @ 2.50... well that’s a no brained to me. Just have to get two metal water containers about the size of a water bottle for the fridge. I’m wondering about the difference in plastic between gallon jugs and individual bottles? By recycling energy costs and by actual material content.

[Tammy]

You could weigh the two types of equivalent empty plastic containers - I'm interested in the result.

[frugal-one]

While the razor makes its way to my door, I did some math. The case of 24 bottles of water I have in the garage holds about as much water as three gallon jugs. Since the price of a case is @ $5 and the price of three gallons is @ 2.50... well that’s a no brained to me. Just have to get two metal water containers about the size of a water bottle for the fridge. I’m wondering about the difference in plastic between gallon jugs and individual bottles? By recycling energy costs and by actual material content.

Is it possible to filter the water? Would that be a better option than buying water?

[catherine]

Is it possible to filter the water? Would that be a better option than buying water?

That's why I do. Before we had a filter on our refrigerator I used a Brita. You can also install a filtration system on your tap.

[Williamsmith]

Is it possible to filter the water? Would that be a better option than buying water?

I thought this question would be coming. When I purchased my condo there was a kinetico water softening system and a separate under the sink unit. The contract stated the kinetico system stays with the condo. Imagine my surprise when the under the sink unit and filter were gone when I moved in. Alright, they got me because I wasn’t diligent enough to literally spell out the separate two systems.

So soon after I moved in I got a call from the water purification company that installed the kinetico system. The guy wants to know if I need new cartridges for my filtering system. I told him I’m the new owner and the old owner took it with him. Now he shifts gears and offers a free water purity demo. What the heck, I’ve tossed people out who wore out their welcome before, I’ll just add him to the list.

So he shows up and goes through his whole canned magic show. And tries to sell me a new unit for $500 ish bucks. On top of that the new unit measures every ounce that goes through your filter and shuts it off when you reach the “maximum allowed” use. So you have to go buy new filters at $100 plus a crack. I say no thanks and show him the door, give him a gentle nudge and thank him as he is pulling out the drive.

The township I live in provides water from a couple deep wells. They are responsible for the purity of the water up until it reaches our community and then because our pipeline is privately owned, that throws an unknown into the situation. And I have misgivings about the possible contamination of the water table in our immediate area.


Although one cannot make a direct correlation between the underground water table and the local watershed which feeds it....I do have concerns about the agriculture, logging, mineral extraction, development and industrial waste that represent potential threats.

So, I have come to the conclusion that since the bottled water industry is fairly loosely regulated.....my solution of purchasing water not only doesn’t make sense healthwise but economically also. I’m trying to solve the economics of it first and then look for a water quality solution. Testing would seem to be costly.

[SteveinMN]

look for a water quality solution. Testing would seem to be costly.
Does one of your state universities offer water-testing as a service to residents? Perhaps a county or state extension office? The cost for that might be minimal and you could have more confidence in their testing than in testing by a company that can (will) sell you an answer to whatever they find.

[frugal-one]

Steve has a good idea. Based on what you said I think I would be buying water also. My community tells what is in our water and I HAVE to purify it. Sad.

[bae]

On water :

http://www.simplelivingforum.net/showthread.php?1349-Where-does-*your*-water-come-from

[Williamsmith]

Does one of your state universities offer water-testing as a service to residents? Perhaps a county or state extension office? The cost for that might be minimal and you could have more confidence in their testing than in testing by a company that can (will) sell you an answer to whatever they find.

Okay, apparently I’ve opened a Pandora’s box of conundrums. I have a Penn State Extension Office within 10 miles of my residence. They will provide a water testing kit that includes a bacteria test, a first draw lead test, and a third catch all bottle for any additional testing you choose. The standard cost for testing is $50. But packages are as costly as $110 depending on the thoroughness of the testing.

The bacteria test has to be delivered to the lab which happens to be 3 1/2 plus hours from my home. The package can be overnighted but it has to be there not more than 30 hrs from draw.

I also understand from further reading that the Kinetico system I have which uses salt as a method to remove hardness from my water....DOES NOT.....deposit significant additional sodium chloride into my drinking water. This I did not know. I was always also opposed to using a complete reverse osmosis system that removes virtually all minerals from the water.

So, there is a possibility I could be satisfied with the test results of my drinking water, and eliminate purchasing bottled water altogether. That would be awesome. The extension office recommends testing every 14 months in order to get a profile of your drinking water that depicts seasonal changes.

Thank You for your response, SteveinMN!

[Williamsmith]

On water :

http://www.simplelivingforum.net/showthread.php?1349-Where-does-*your*-water-come-from

Thank you Bae!

[Teacher Terry]

I just drink the water from my tap. My DH only drinks filtered water.

[iris lilies]

We have high quality, good tasting water here so I don't worry about it. Am glad I dont have to worry about it.

But some neighbors have all of the contraptions ya’ll are talking about and I just see those as consumeristic trappings.

I do realize that In some places water treatment may be advised and even necessary, in others not advised or necessary. . And as always
I might make different decisions were I were raising small children. There are so many thngs their little bodies are asaulted with that were not around when we were children.

[Williamsmith]

I did some further reading regarding the plastics used in our culture. I would venture to guess 95% of people are like me....they have no clue what that bottle they just purchased is constructed of. I am going to refer to one website as a resource. Honestly, I can’t vouch for their veracity and true knowledge but it seems reliable.

There are 7 different categories of plastic containers indicated by the number with the “chasing arrows” symbol found on the bottle.

1. Polyethylene Terephthalate (PET) - water bottles...should not be reused as it could leach carcinogens.
2. High Density Polyethylene (HDPE) - milk jugs....safest form and commonly recycled.
3. Polyvinyl Chloride (PVC) - plumbing applications......not commonly recycled.
4. Low Density Polyethylene (LDPE) - grocery bags......used by a lot of people for collecting household trash and not recycled.
5. Polypropylene - five gallon buckets and cereal liners....pretty safe to reuse. Doesn’t get recycled much.
6. Polystyrene - clam shell “to go” boxes at restaraunts....not recycled and almost all end up in the landfill.
7. Polycarbonate- and a whole hodgepodge of catch all plastic mixes. A real unknown group.

http://learn.eartheasy.com/2012/05/plastics-by-the-numbers/

So I started wondering what those “eco friendly” water bottles are made of. I mean, I fork out extra money to buy the high end stuff because they have a green cap and the company wants to save the planet.

Aquafinas “Eco-Fina” is simply a bottle that has thinner walls than it used to so they can claim they use less plastic in its manufacture. It’s still the same plastic. What it does is save the company money in manufacturing as they designed the bottle with more ridges that stiffen the bottle.

Dasani - Coca colas entry into the love the planet contest. This bottle is made up of 70% PET and 30% plant material. The plant material is sugar cane and molasses. That’s fine but what does the increased demand for sugar cane do to the countries that grow it. Do they cut down more trees to make room for sugar cane production? I’m not sure that’s a good model going forward.

Then I got to regretting being involved in the whole bottled water consumption deal. After all, I’m getting municiple water from some other location that takes three times the amount of water to get in the bottle by the manufacturing process, involves trucking it all over the country, requires petroleum products as a delivery system, is a health threat if it remains too long in the bottle due to leaching, sits in a landfill forever (maybe it can get reclaimed someday). I have to haul it from the store home and use up valuable storage space on my shelves. AND....I am paying premium prices for something that is already delivered to my faucet.

Yesterdya, I purchased two 500 ml aluminum thermos. One for me, one for wifey to take in her lunch bag. These keep hot and cold liquids at temperature for 12- 24 hrs. Cost- $16. My transition plan is to use gallon jugs of water until I get the home water tested. Once the quality is assured, then move to completely tap water.

[SteveinMN]

You're welcome, Williamsmith!

We have good (treated aquifer) water here (moderately hard) but I still filter at the kitchen tap because my (non-scientific) study says we descale pots, coffeemakers, etc. far less often than we likely would with moderately-hard water. I don't notice a difference in the taste.

[catherine]

Wow, I am so impressed by your interest and research into this topic! Thanks for informing the rest of us as well! Kudos for making this change. Information can be empowering.

[Chicken lady]

:thankyou: Williamsmith. My boss is trained as a chemist. She says if you’re going to buy water in containers - buy “distilled”. Then you know it is just water.

my car is going to be recycled. My “new” car is “flex fuel” equipped. I feel like i’ve accomplished something just by buying it instead of someone who won’t do the research on e85 and would feed it that either through mistaken impressions or the desire to save money.

i has to say “no thank you” to five bottles of water while we were car shopping. Dh finally said “yes” at the last place, and the guy brought me one even though he acknowledged when he brought it that I had said no. I didn’t touch it, and when we finished our paperwork I told the salesman that that was “an extra bottle that someone had just brought out.” So hopefully it got put back or used by someone else who was going to use one anyway.

i am reenergized to tackle remaining plastic issues at our house.

[frugal-one]

The water here has lots of lead in it. If you let a glass sit, the sediment is about an inch thick on the bottom. The water from the tap is cloudy. So, we literally HAVE to filter the water. A Pur (on the facet) filtration system does the job.

[Williamsmith]

I’m off to the extension office to pick up my water test kit. I have to admit I am energized by my wife’s encouragement in this effort. Usually, my ideas are met with an eye roll and “that’s nice dear, but .....”. This time she reminded me that I was the one who abandoned drinking the water from our well (at the old house) and started buying water. In my defense, I coached baseball for ten years and bottled water by the case was convenient for traveling long distances to tournaments and such.

But, it’s time to explore a better way. This will benefit my budget, be a step toward simplicity and minimalism. I took a look in my extra storage room and on the shelf discovered that yep.....I had saved the Brita filter container I used to keep in the fridge for my water supply.

[Williamsmith]

The water here has lots of lead in it. If you let a glass sit, the sediment is about an inch thick on the bottom. The water from the tap is cloudy. So, we literally HAVE to filter the water. A Pur (on the facet) filtration system does the job.

How often do you test the water? That doesn’t sound healthy. I’d be buying my water in jugs. Mr. Paranoid.

[frugal-one]

How often do you test the water? That doesn’t sound healthy. I’d be buying my water in jugs. Mr. Paranoid.

I live in a small village that tests the water. They send us the results yearly. It is evident that the lead is filtered out by our method. The filter when full is very heavy. Also, the water is very clear and tastes great.

[BikingLady]

Chicken Lady,

I asked last month my friend at Ford about the E85 Flex Fuel option. Overall she told me less up front cost at pump, lower miles per tank. So to do the math on MPG, not really a savings.

[Chicken lady]

It looks like savings at the pump. And there is a lobby to argue that it is environmentally friendly. But actually, driving on corn ethanol is a huge environmental step back.

so, yeah, I have no intention of putting that in my tank.

this morning I intruded dh to the idea of a reusable bottle for his lunch juice (for years he took a can of soda and recycling the can didn’t bother me. Then he switched to canned juice “drinks” but now he is drinking straight up juice and it comes in plastic bottles. I have to work on the idea slowly.

[Williamsmith]

It looks like savings at the pump. And there is a lobby to argue that it is environmentally friendly. But actually, driving on corn ethanol is a huge environmental step back.

so, yeah, I have no intention of putting that in my tank.

this morning I intruded dh to the idea of a reusable bottle for his lunch juice (for years he took a can of soda and recycling the can didn’t bother me. Then he switched to canned juice “drinks” but now he is drinking straight up juice and it comes in plastic bottles. I have to work on the idea slowly.

If you are like me, I am more of the type of person to wear you down over time. I don’t give up easy. But there are things DW has refused to consider and I’ve learned that modeling the behavior is the best way. After all, these are my convictions, not hers. I try to give her space to be different even if it means she’s not the frugal, simple, minimalistic partner my current fantasy alledges. Truth is for most of our married life, she held us together managing finances, running the logistics of a five person household.

Now to aluminum. At an average price of 30-35 cents a pound, and a pound made up of about 33 cans you see that collecting cans is about as fruitful as picking up a lost penny. Every can represents about a penny. My household might go through one or two cans per day. If I saved a years worth and took it to the metal recycle place, I’d probably realize a return of maybe 30 pounds of cans....$10. That’s a rough guess. At best, I’d be stopping throwing about a dollar a month away.

That’s why I don’t recycle aluminum cans anymore. And here’s the kicker, the recycle place is loaded with sharp objects, nails and glass which puncture tires. A puncture tire could easily cost a couple years effort to pay for a plug.

[Tammy]

Some of the most efficient aluminum can recycling I've seen is people picking through the trash in alleys for any sort of metals. They take only what is recyclable and they deliver it to the metal recyclers and they get a little money for it.

[iris lilies]

Some of the most efficient aluminum can recycling I've seen is people picking through the trash in alleys for any sort of metals. They take only what is recyclable and they deliver it to the metal recyclers and they get a little money for it.
In my neighborhood there are metal collectors who regularly pick up cans. Often they get cans out of the recycling dumpsters. In the olden days around here, before recycling dumpsters a
pears, some neighbors had a special bag hanging on their back fence where they deposited their soda cans, and the pickers came by to get them.

We don't drink sodas so dont have these cans to dispose of.

[Chicken lady]

The behavior i’m modeling is drinking water from the tap, or tea or coffee made from water from the tap in a glass or mug. And milk from a goat in a glass or heated with cocoa and sugar in a mug. The day he drinks goat milk, I’ll faint.

i only drink juice of there is booze in it. The booze comes in large glass bottles, which I recycle. I would totally pay a deposit on them!

[Williamsmith]

Operation “No Bottled Water” has been approved and launch is set to coincide with me running out of the current inventory I have on hand. I have already received the report on my tap water quality from Penn State’s Agriculture Analytical Services Lab. This lab is accredited and I chose it rather than a private lab so that the funds could assist my old alma mater.

The test results included are :

Total Coliform bacteria.......0
E. coli bacteria.................0
Ph.................................7.75
Total dissolved solids........359 mg/L

The drinking water standards respectively are:

0
0
6.5-8.5
500 mg/L

So as you can see the tap water is just fine. I have a water pitcher with a carbon based replaceable filter that I saved from our last residence where we had a 75 ft deep well as our water supply. Both I and my neighbors applied fertilizer to to the lawn with weed killer and so I suspended use of the well for drinking water.

My current residence is fed by water from an authority which draws from deep aquifers. The city nearby recently voted to add fluoride to their water. I am glad I am not on that system.

Soon I will be contributing very little plastic to the landfill. And I will be saving money. Now that’s just good backwoods logic!

[nswef]

Yahoo William smith. congratulations and how nice to know your water is safe, too.

[BikingLady]

1A on NPR was a nice recycling show this week. We just spoke of the cardboard that I get piled high each week from Amazon. Yes I order just about everything even toilet paper. Husband said jokingly Amazon will have to move to the recycling of these boxes. I lug them to the recycle bin each week and notice there are two dumpsters now there for cardboard. The show stated the the same "the browning of the bins" meaning how much more cardboard there is on due to ordering.

[Chicken lady]

Williamsmith, how is your project going?

i bought dh a good thermos and have been putting his juice in it. The juice still comes in plastic, but now it is a large bottle or gallon jug. Less plastic per day and many fewer lids.

Amazon and the boxes - I used to beg parents for bubble wrap and shoeboxes or small cardboard boxes so their kids could bring their projects home safely. Now I am out of storage space in my classroom!

i am hoping the tariffs will raise the price of scrap and encourage metal recycling.

[Suzanne]

Well, I think the earth has pretty much been polluted beyond the possibility of repair. So while I am outright trashing the place on my own (though I certainly contribute to much of the pollution) I don't really worry about it.

It is all over by the shouting, CL.

Also: Turning your property into a well-organized or not-so-well organized landfill doesn't really change the situation.

I am not sure how helpful this is. It probably isn't.

Remember that old movie Dr. Strangelove?

The second title of it was: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Bomb.

So I think of our environmental catastrophe like that. Why bother worrying over it. We are all f-cked.

I’d prefer to go down with my head held high and my self-respect intact! So I shall continue making as light a footprint as I can manage.

[Teacher Terry]

I choose to keep recycling too. It is the least I can do.