Our Government shutdown threads

[iris lilies]

Do we need to talk about the gubmnt shutting down? Maybe not, if we just rehash these old threads:

http://www.simplelivingforum.net/showthread.php?9087-Government-shutdown&highlight=Government+shutdowns


http://www.simplelivingforum.net/showthread.php?15262-Government-Shutdown&highlight=Government+shutdowns

[flowerseverywhere]

You are so right. Same old same old, with a few of the major characters changing.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Happy Federal Government Shutdown folks........realistically I don't see this shutdown impacting me personally but I know someone in the 85006 who went downtown just yesterday to the post office to apply for a passport.....they couldn't renew through the mail as their passport was lost in a fire. Now they are living in fear of long delays and being vulnerable to the American Health Care Industry....i.e., no passport, harder to pull off medical tourism (though I recently posted as to how I was allowed to cross back into the US from Mexico at the Nogales Port of Entry with only a Arizona State ID Card, though I believe I was very lucky).....at any rate this person is crawling with fear which I find completely understandable. Rob

[Teacher Terry]

I think there must be something in the water of the 85006 if needing to wait for a passport is making someone crawl with fear.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I think there must be something in the water of the 85006 if needing to wait for a passport is making someone crawl with fear.No, not really. It's just that this person does not qualify for Medicaid and has too many bills/financial obligations to afford an ObamaCare premium these days in Arizona and without a passport, it's problematic to flee/offshore health care to another country. I'd be crawling in fear too were I in this boat and I totally empathize and understand. Rob

PS And just to be clear, it's not waiting the normal length of time for a passport that is problematic, it's waiting for a potentially much longer time for the human rights afforded by a passport - in this case, access to affordable health care elsewhere - because of the government shutdown.

[Alan]

I think there must be something in the water of the 85006 if needing to wait for a passport is making someone crawl with fear.Perpetual aggrievement and fear do seem to be the defining factors in Rob's descriptions of the 85006, although I suspect it's an exaggeration.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Perpetual aggrievement does seem to be the defining factor in Rob's descriptions of the 85006, although I suspect it's an exaggeration.No, not really. What you have in the 85006 is a lot of fed up people calling America out for exactly what it is and attempting to hold America accountable for what it is. That's all. Of course, seen through the lens of lower income individuals. Rob

[Teacher Terry]

If we are so bad why are so many people from other countries including Mexico coming illegally all the time? It is for a better life than the one they have.

[iris lilies]

If we are so bad why are so many people from other countries including Mexico coming illegally all the time? It is for a better life than the one they have.
Wasn't there a statistic recently that showed more U.S. citizens are going to live in Mexico than there are Mexicans coming here? I think so, the emigration patterns have flipped.

Factors such as
1) The Trumpster’s loug postering about illegals and what he’s gonna do to them
2) incresingly good economic environment in Old Mexico

are driving this change.

[iris lilies]

My favorite politican said that a recent study by one of the thinktanks identified 700,000 people worldwide who would emigrate to the U.S. if allowed in. We take, what, 100,000 each year?

If the stream of Mexican illegals and other illegals from south of our border dries up, we will not lack in immigrants from other countries who wish to come in. They may need more support from the taxpayers, however. Without the family systems in place now like
Mexicans have, pulling in refugees and etc from war torn places will not provide the instant worker force we imagine we need.

[Teacher Terry]

Plenty of people are trying to escape their war torn countries and you can't blame them.

[Yppej]

I am waiting on tax forms to come as I do mine on paper. I don't see anything on the IRS website about what impact the shutdown will have on them. Does anyone know?

[rosarugosa]

Yppej: I'm sorry that I don't have your answer, but could you tell me if they mail you the forms? I've been doing paper returns since our refund was stolen a few years ago, but I've printed the forms from the IRS and MA DOR websites. I no longer have access to the printer at the office and don't have my own printer, so if there is a better way than printing them at the library from the websites, I would love to hear it!

[flowerseverywhere]

Plenty of people are trying to escape their war torn countries and you can't blame them.

per,the UN 65,000,000 are displaced dues to forcible removal
22,500,000;refugees
10,000,000 stateless people. Who have no access to medical care, education etc.

http://www.unhcr.org/en-us/figures-at-a-glance.html

what would Jesus do? Tell them to stay in their shithole countries and refugee camps? Or try to do something, even some little things to help. Oh wait, we need a tax cut more than anything so let’s cut foreign aid. And defund any agency that might also provide abortions to these incredibly sad lot of humans.

[sweetana3]

I went thru several shutdowns. They are all different and there is no way to tell what will be affected. However, bulk tax forms are not mailed by the IRS but by private contractors. If you requested something and it requires an IRS employee AND they are off next week, the work will just pile up.

Another way is to download the form to a USB stick and take to a printer, whether library, company or friend.

[Yppej]

It is not a bulk order, just for myself. I called my library today but they don't have any forms yet. I don't want to waste my toner printing forms and instruction booklets.

[gimmethesimplelife]

About the shutdown - here's a positive take on it. My guess - my hunch, rather - is that it is not going to last very long. Why do I say this? Trump is polling very low these days and from what I'm reading online, more Americans are blaming the GOP for the shutdown than the Democrats. Assuming Trump can calm down and reach a reasonable state in private (?), it may dawn on him to minimize the length of time the Federal Government is partially shut down. We'll see - Certainly I have been known to be wrong before. Rob

[flowerseverywhere]

https://www.snopes.com/trump-criticize-obama-shutdown/

in 2013 this what Trump tweeted when the government shut down.

“A shutdown falls in the President’s lack of leadership.
He can’t even control his own party and get people in a room.
a shutdown proves the President is weak”

funny how now it’s Schumer’s fault.

[gimmethesimplelife]

https://www.snopes.com/trump-criticize-obama-shutdown/

in 2013 this what Trump tweeted when the government shut down.

“A shutdown falls in the President’s lack of leadership.
He can’t even control his own party and get people in a room.
a shutdown proves the President is weak”

funny how now it’s Schumer’s fault.To quote an over the top drag queen friend of mine in the 85006 - That's just toooooooooooo DELISH!!!!! Rob

Some advice to those who tweet? Be careful what you tweet as it seems to be able to come back and haunt you.

[ToomuchStuff]

Perpetual aggrievement and fear do seem to be the defining factors in Rob's descriptions of the 85006, although I suspect it's an exaggeration.

I fear you may be right.:D

I am waiting on tax forms to come as I do mine on paper. I don't see anything on the IRS website about what impact the shutdown will have on them. Does anyone know?


Depending on the form, some of the instructions were just posted as of Jan. 19th. Normally, the forms are finalized by the 20th of December. I would think the printers may have started on them this weekend. I would recommend just downloaded and printing off the form and save the pdf of the manual.

[iris lilies]

https://www.snopes.com/trump-criticize-obama-shutdown/

in 2013 this what Trump tweeted when the government shut down.

“A shutdown falls in the President’s lack of leadership.
He can’t even control his own party and get people in a room.
a shutdown proves the President is weak”

funny how now it’s Schumer’s fault.

that is actually pretty funny.

[LDAHL]

I am waiting on tax forms to come as I do mine on paper. I don't see anything on the IRS website about what impact the shutdown will have on them. Does anyone know?

I haven't been able to get anyone who knows anything on the phone, but I have heard a lot of great hold music.

Supposedly, a revised W-4 incorporating the new tax law was going to be provided "soon"; but that was before the shutdown.

[catherine]

Wasn't there a statistic recently that showed more U.S. citizens are going to live in Mexico than there are Mexicans coming here? I think so, the emigration patterns have flipped.

Factors such as
1) The Trumpster’s loug postering about illegals and what he’s gonna do to them
2) incresingly good economic environment in Old Mexico

are driving this change.

Mexico may be the new Florida for baby boomers. Two of my friends and their partners have retired to Mexico and are very happy.

MONTHLY EXPENSES COST (USD$)
Rent & Internet $375
Electricity & Water $0
Food $300
Transportation $20
Entertainment $50

Total $745

[Teacher Terry]

Mexico had a record number of murders this year. You couldn't pay me to live there.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Mexico had a record number of murders this year. You couldn't pay me to live there. Hi TT! There are parts of Mexico, Querataro being an example, which are safer than most places in the US. Then there are places I would not want to show my face in in broad daylight - Acapulco would be an example, or most of Sinaloa, or Tijuana since about last October. What I'm trying to say is that there are places in Mexico that warrant your comment and there are places in Mexico that don't.

If you ever cross the border, make sure you are headed towards one of the safe places and not one of the danger zones. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

Mexico may be the new Florida for baby boomers. Two of my friends and their partners have retired to Mexico and are very happy.

MONTHLY EXPENSES COST (USD$)
Rent & Internet $375
Electricity & Water $0
Food $300
Transportation $20
Entertainment $50

Total $745My take is that more and more people are going to become more open to leaving the US to get out of the rat race sooner and most especially if Medicare is messed with in any real way. I personally consider this a positive development........though I can see that some who are forced into this through pure economics will not see it this way. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

Looks like the government will be up and running again until February 8th. Crossing my fingers and hoping my acquaintance in the 85006 gets their passport before any potential future government shutdown(s). Rob

[Rogar]

I wonder if T got his wall in the temporary measure? The big issue in the news was mostly about DACA.

[jp1]

It appears that the main things that were accomplished beyond funding the government for a few more weeks was a 6 year extension of CHIP and the promise of McConnell (for whatever that's worth...) to bring DACA (and presumably some amount of increased border protection funding) to an up or down vote in the senate before February 8th.

Undoubtedly some democrats will be unhappy that DACA wasn't directly taken care of, but honestly, the dems have a pretty weak hand right now, so getting CHIP off the table before the next round of this game seems like a pretty good conclusion.

[flowerseverywhere]

It appears that the main things that were accomplished beyond funding the government for a few more weeks was a 6 year extension of CHIP and the promise of McConnell (for whatever that's worth...) to bring DACA (and presumably some amount of increased border protection funding) to an up or down vote in the senate before February 8th.

Undoubtedly some democrats will be unhappy that DACA wasn't directly taken care of, but honestly, the dems have a pretty weak hand right now, so getting CHIP off the table before the next round of this game seems like a pretty good conclusion.

Even thinking about not letting poor kids have health care, especially these days where there is such a clamor to do everything to restrict abortion, is unconscionable. Pro-life does not end when the baby is born.

DACA should be very carefully considered. It is not something that should be rushed through and tacked on somewhere. One more thing that should have been addressed for many years but the cowards who cared more about earning money and being re-elected continued to sweep it under the carpet. But they have to do it right.

you know, this whole debacle is one of the reasons the Republicans won si bigly. Putting the needs of illegal immigrants before the needs of actual citizens enrages many hard working average Americans. Until Democrats acknowledge that, they have little hope of big wins. In our local school kids show up without a word of English, cannot read in their native language, and are put in an age appropriate classroom. I have several friends who volunteer tutor and they are finding it extremely discouraging, especially when they go home to non English speaking households. Very difficult to see the kids make much progress. There just isn’t enough money to do everything that is required for regular students. plus address the special catch up needs of these kids.

[LDAHL]

Undoubtedly some democrats will be unhappy that DACA wasn't directly taken care of, but honestly, the dems have a pretty weak hand right now, so getting CHIP off the table before the next round of this game seems like a pretty good conclusion.

The usual suspects are outraged about "Chuck's Choke", but it's hard to see that he had much leverage. A handful of Democratic Senators in squishy districts were nervous about an extended shutdown, and it was by no means certain that the mass of voters care that much about "dreamers" that they would accept the inconvenience of a long shutdown. The left wing of the party will declare themselves energized, and various presidential hopefuls will make all the noise they can, but it seems very little has actually changed in the real world.

I thought the President seemed unusually passive through the whole process.

[dmc]

The democrats could have taken care of immigration reform back in 08 when they were in control. Obama promised to do it. But it was only important when he was campaigning in Latino districts. Like many promises it was soon forgotten. Now they are outraged.

[jp1]

DACA should be very carefully considered. It is not something that should be rushed through and tacked on somewhere. One more thing that should have been addressed for many years but the cowards who cared more about earning money and being re-elected continued to sweep it under the carpet. But they have to do it right.

you know, this whole debacle is one of the reasons the Republicans won si bigly. Putting the needs of illegal immigrants before the needs of actual citizens enrages many hard working average Americans. Until Democrats acknowledge that, they have little hope of big wins.

Apparently, if the surveys are to be believed, the democrats were actually successful in convincing people of the importance of DACA. Support for using the shutdown to get DACA done went from 42% for/42% against before the shutdown happened to 47%/38% by this past weekend. Surveys asking about DACA as a standalone issue were even more dramatic. One found that 87% of Americans think we should let the dreamers stay. Personally I think it's pretty crappy that we promised these kids a future in the US if they registered with the government and are now potentially yanking that rug out from under them. But, unlike our president, I'm someone who honors his commitments.

https://morningconsult.com/2018/01/22/support-for-democrats-daca-strategy-grew-during-government-shutdown-polls-show/

https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/editorial/2018/01/23/tribune-editorial-congress-will-lose-support-if-it-doesnt-legislate-daca-soon/

[flowerseverywhere]

Apparently, if the surveys are to be believed, the democrats were actually successful in convincing people of the importance of DACA. Support for using the shutdown to get DACA done went from 42% for/42% against before the shutdown happened to 47%/38% by this past weekend. Surveys asking about DACA as a standalone issue were even more dramatic. One found that 87% of Americans think we should let the dreamers stay. Personally I think it's pretty crappy that we promised these kids a future in the US if they registered with the government and are now potentially yanking that rug out from under them. But, unlike our president, I'm someone who honors his commitments.

https://morningconsult.com/2018/01/22/support-for-democrats-daca-strategy-grew-during-government-shutdown-polls-show/

https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/editorial/2018/01/23/tribune-editorial-congress-will-lose-support-if-it-doesnt-legislate-daca-soon/

i agree with you, but it needs to be done right.

[Rogar]

The democrats could have taken care of immigration reform back in 08 when they were in control. Obama promised to do it. But it was only important when he was campaigning in Latino districts. Like many promises it was soon forgotten. Now they are outraged.

No doubt that was one of his failures. I suspect his priorities were the financial crisis and health care reform. Then by his second term he had lost control of the house and anything Obama was pretty much doomed. From then on I see it as a shared blame. But that's history now.

[LDAHL]

Apparently, if the surveys are to be believed, the democrats were actually successful in convincing people of the importance of DACA. Support for using the shutdown to get DACA done went from 42% for/42% against before the shutdown happened to 47%/38% by this past weekend. Surveys asking about DACA as a standalone issue were even more dramatic. One found that 87% of Americans think we should let the dreamers stay. Personally I think it's pretty crappy that we promised these kids a future in the US if they registered with the government and are now potentially yanking that rug out from under them. But, unlike our president, I'm someone who honors his commitments.

https://morningconsult.com/2018/01/22/support-for-democrats-daca-strategy-grew-during-government-shutdown-polls-show/

https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/editorial/2018/01/23/tribune-editorial-congress-will-lose-support-if-it-doesnt-legislate-daca-soon/

I'm not sure who "we" are here. When the President couldn't get his law through Congress, he went ahead with an edict of his own to the effect of "if you like this country you can keep this country". I don't know that that amounts to a binding moral imperative on all of us. Even when so many of the "not my president" crowd insists it is. It is interesting how much support for "the dreamers" declines when it becomes a motive for budgetary blackmail.

I think the Democrats made a significant tactical error here. They failed to learn from past GOP failures at budget brinksmanship, and have probably strengthened the hard-left elements of their party who can drive nominations but fail to win general elections.

[jp1]

I'm not sure who "we" are here. When the President couldn't get his law through Congress, he went ahead with an edict of his own to the effect of "if you like this country you can keep this country". I don't know that that amounts to a binding moral imperative on all of us.

"We" became the entire country at the point that the federal agencies tasked with handling immigration followed through on his executive order to implement the DACA program. Whether one liked it or not, the president was acting as an agent of the government and when the government followed through with implementing his executive order a commitment was made. I don't see it as any different than when I commit my employer to an agreement to pay insurance losses if certain situations happen to an insured. Even if I act outside of the authority I have been given in writing and then leave the company, the company cannot then back out of the commitments I made, even if I knew at the time that I put in place a policy that was outside of the scope of my authority.

[jp1]

I'm not sure who "we" are here. When the President couldn't get his law through Congress, he went ahead with an edict of his own to the effect of "if you like this country you can keep this country". I don't know that that amounts to a binding moral imperative on all of us.

"We" became the entire country at the point that the federal agencies tasked with handling immigration followed through on his executive order to implement the DACA program. Whether one liked it or not, the president was acting as an agent of the government and when the government followed through with implementing his executive order a commitment was made. I don't see it as any different than when I commit my employer to an agreement to pay insurance losses if certain situations happen to an insured. Even if I act outside of the authority I have been given in writing and then leave the company, the company cannot then back out of the commitments I made, even if I knew at the time that I put in place a policy that was outside of the scope of my authority.

[jp1]

I think the Democrats made a significant tactical error here. They failed to learn from past GOP failures at budget brinksmanship, and have probably strengthened the hard-left elements of their party who can drive nominations but fail to win general elections.

Thank you for your concern. Personally I think there will be approximately 500 other critical blunders/successes on both sides between now and November and this 3 day government shutdown will only be a dim memory to most voters by that time.

[LDAHL]

Thank you for your concern. Personally I think there will be approximately 500 other critical blunders/successes on both sides between now and November and this 3 day government shutdown will only be a dim memory to most voters by that time.

It's going to be hilarious.

[Teacher Terry]

The only thing that Trump loves is $. I doubt he gives a rats ass about his own family. He does not care that he promised one thing in regard to DACA and now wants to do another. They are all just disposable to him.