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Simplemind
1-25-18, 12:07am
I lost my dad to this horrible flu a week ago. I still feel stunned that it happened so fast. Now I am tasked with all the end of life details and the Trust. I am so thankful that I was able to liquidate all property before he died because I'll admit... I'm tapped out. It is pretty clear cut but I'm feeling a bit overwhelmed by it. After meeting with the attorney today I think I have figured out why. Much came down to the amount of work and responsibility I have had for the past 6 years. I've just sucked it up and though I was compensated for some of it, we discussed that it was not enough compensation. So we will be meeting with the family to discuss this and it is hoped that they will be reasonable.
Now that it is all over and dad is gone, I am finally able to unload this burden. I didn't realize until I started talking about it just how hard it had been. I always keep my head down and push forward. I didn't realize I was so emotional about it. My parents really left a sh*t show of a mess and my siblings (2) did not help. I am OK with that. I just realized I was not OK with the lack of appreciation from my parents and finally from my siblings. My husband worked each day with me and was never thanked or compensated. We lived and breathed this liquidation for four years. I don't know how they are going to feel about compensating that.

dado potato
1-25-18, 12:30am
This is an awfully rough stretch of road to travel over. Be well.

2079

Yppej
1-25-18, 5:04am
I'm sorry for your loss and stress and hope things work out for you and your husband.

rosarugosa
1-25-18, 5:32am
I'm sorry for both the loss of your father and the practical difficulties you are facing. Wishing the best for you.

Williamsmith
1-25-18, 8:23am
The flu has been unusually harsh this year in my neck of the woods. My son in laws mother also died as a result and very unexpectedly. She was 70 and living on her own and substitute teaching every once in awhile. She failed to show up for work. She had been diagnosed with pneumonia and was on antibiotics.

She was not prepared. Nobody knew where the important papers were, no will, no access to bank accounts, no direction whatsoever and a house that needs to be sold and property dispersed.

I only tell you this to let you know many people are in a similar bind. I myself have a mother, 84, in a large house and she has done some clearing out but there’s a lot of stuff left. And she won’t consider moving into an apartment and getting the burden of a house off her children’s back.

Ive thought about why it seems this is representative of my mothers generation. I think that they had a paradigm where the home was the last retreat for a struggling family. Today, however, that family is spread out across the nation if not globally. The sibling that stays closest gets the burden of managing it all. My generation sees this and makes sure they have prepared an easier path for their children.

I am sorry about your loss but I am glad you can now see some way to pursue your personal best interest. I believe that we do get out of life what we put in it. The love we take is indeed equal to the love we make. My best wishes for your healing.

catherine
1-25-18, 8:34am
I'm so sorry for your loss, Simplemind.

And I'm sorry about everything that went before it in terms of the life energy expended on the liquidation of your dad's property. "The End of the Line" is a fitting title, because you are now spared the burden of dealing with his stuff after his death, and you can have some closure and move on.

I think when one person is the responsible one in the family, the rest of the family tends to abdicate their own responsibility and shift it to that person. Not because they're lazy or don't care, but sometimes they don't even realize the extent of the work the responsible one is doing. Or they are glad that someone else has picked up the baton, so they put the problem on their own back burner. Everyone has a responsible one in the family. In my parent's family it was my Uncle Bill. He did it all. We felt he COULD do it all, so what could we contribute? Maybe it was unfair to Uncle Bill, but I think it's a common dynamic in families when we each adopt roles.

I hope you and your family arrive at a mutually agreeable compensation for all your work, and again, my condolences on your loss.

Chicken lady
1-25-18, 8:37am
I flinch a little when I see “after meeting with the attorney”.

i know nothing about your relationship with you siblings. But before you open a discussion, please stop for a few minutes and get clear on what is truly important to you:
money
having them truly understand and appreciate what you did
your relationship with them

because you may not get all of that.

losing my grandparents was painful. Dealing with the estate was overwhelming. But the one thing we all kept clear was that the most important gift they gave us was each other. Everything else was just stuff. I realize that we are lucky for that. Some families are a burden, not a blessing. But be sure.

whatever happens, I am sorry for your loss and the struggle you have already been through.

Tybee
1-25-18, 9:21am
I am so sorry for your loss, Simplemind.

SteveinMN
1-25-18, 9:28am
Simplemind, I'm sorry both for the loss of your father and for having to take care of the mess left behind.


I think when one person is the responsible one in the family, the rest of the family tends to abdicate their own responsibility and shift it to that person. Not because they're lazy or don't care, but sometimes they don't even realize the extent of the work the responsible one is doing. Or they are glad that someone else has picked up the baton, so they put the problem on their own back burner. Everyone has a responsible one in the family.
The responsible one in our family is me. There are only three siblings. One of them is my sick brother (whose care, through no fault of his own, will be part of the mess my mom leaves behind; long story for another thread sometime); he will not be able to shoulder any of the load. The other is my sister, who, for emotional reasons, greatly limits her participation in what goes on in all of life. She will step up to help when the time comes if I ask. But I'd be surprised if she volunteered for any aspect of the cleanup.

To my mom's credit, she has gotten rid of belongings as the years have gone by. She has only so much capacity for the work, though, so it goes very slowly. My mom has become better about establishing access to her bank accounts, insurance, pension, etc. I strongly suspect her credit is a bit of a mess and, while the access to financial instruments is mostly there, the fine details (exactly who to call, latest statements, what bills will need to be paid when, etc.) are not. And the logistics of finding emergency care for my brother and determining what to do with the house (which I rent to them and which will need some renovation before any disposition [again, story for another time]) will fall to me. Thankfully, my DW functions with some perspective around the situation and can serve as a sounding board if not outright help in a pinch.

The only compensation will be knowing I did my best at doing the right thing. I don't know as any other compensation is necessary.

iris lilies
1-25-18, 9:31am
Simplemind, I am sorry you are not feeling valued for what you did for your father.

nswef
1-25-18, 10:23am
I am so sorry Simplemind.

CathyA
1-25-18, 10:25am
((((((hugs))))))

Teacher Terry
1-25-18, 12:08pm
-I am so very sorry.

Float On
1-25-18, 12:54pm
I'm sorry. I hope you find some rest and calm.

pinkytoe
1-25-18, 3:00pm
My condolences...Six years is a very long time to be a primary caretaker. I imagine you feel all sorts of emotions. I know I did when my caretaking days ended as the trials are unimaginable unless you have been through it. While it all going on, it feels like an endless situation. It is now time to take care of yourself with the knowledge that the healing will take time. It baffles my mind that our parents don't tend to these things when they are younger and able as it is inevitable that someone else will have to deal with it if they don't. As mentioned, it must be a generational thing as we are dealing with the same situation with my MIL. She absolutely refuses to leave her house and says that her kids will take care of her stuff when she is gone.

frugal-one
1-25-18, 6:32pm
My condolences too!

jp1
1-25-18, 10:26pm
I am sorry too for your loss and all that you've had to deal with. Reading posts like this here and elsewhere make me realize how fortunate I am that I come from a long line of stoic, practical people. My dad made the decision to move to an assisted living facility 4 years before he died (and about 4 years after mom died). He'd lined up his estate, added my sister to bank accounts, etc, and was physically safe in his decline. My worst stress was repeated visits to him during the 6 months he was in hospital/hospice before he passed away. My employer was completely understanding and supportive when I needed a few days off here and there to go be with him. The money my sister and I inherited was nice, but far more important is that I never truly worried that no one was caring for him. And when the end came he had so little stuff left that i was able to clean out his apartment in one morning, thanks to the folks from goodwill that took everything in it (even the things they had said they wouldn't want) just because I gave them a nice 32 inch tv as part of the package. I assume half the stuff they kindly took just went straight into a dumpster once they got back to their warehouse.

I hope you finally are able to rest and recuperate and find some joy in your life.

Simplemind
1-25-18, 11:33pm
Thanks for your kind comments. I know many of you have gone down this path before me. I've been struggling with how to understand my feelings and where they are coming from. When I say they didn't appreciate I don't mean as in being thankful, more that they didn't appreciate as in understand. I had a challenging relationship with my mother and what I thought was a good relationship with my dad. I took on the job as many first born do. I was actually kind of surprised because my sister and brother were probably closer to them but also very dependent on them. Neither would discuss finances while my mom was alive. Once she passed and I stepped in my dad became very passive about it. Well, I was reading it as passive at the time but now know it was being befuddled by finances due to dementia. Bills weren't being paid, rents were only partially being collected and what had been collected had not been cashed - FOR YEARS. Renters knew they had a great deal going. My dad was too embarrassed to fix it. Checks from investments, never cashed, stashed in purses, stuffed on top shelves. Mucho accounts had been turned over to the state. Taxes had not been filed for many years so there were penalties to be paid.
While I was wading through all of this, evicting non paying tenants and preparing property to be sold......... I uncovered that my father had a second family. The kids are not his but he spent a lot of time with them and actually traveled the world with them. I'm grateful that I found out before he died so that I was able to get the truth. On the other hand it was a huge kick in the teeth and made working with him on this liquidation a challenge. I loved my dad but would be lying if I said I didn't feel betrayed. I worked very hard to squeeze every penny i could from the properties for my father initially and for my siblings eventually. I regret that I wasn't able to keep dad in his home as he wished but the dementia made it too difficult. I did the best I could with the hand I was dealt. Taking all things into consideration, it is the attorney that feels the compensation was not adequate and wants to talk to my sister and brother about it. Even if they agree and they very well may, I would have rather never had to learn what I did about my parents than have one more penny. We feel very confused about who they were and what our lives in that home really meant.

Lainey
1-26-18, 10:09am
My sincere sympathies, Simplemind. No one could blame you for feeling betrayed. Once the dust settles I wonder if it would be worthwhile to talk to a counselor so that these things don't linger in your mind longer than they have to.

On another note, I'm wishing that publications like AARP, which reaches a lot of seniors, would run articles on these end-of-life complications that the boomer generation is facing with their elderly parents who are stubbornly refusing to streamline things. I've heard so many versions of this same story that I can't help but wonder if there's a willful refusal to believe what it would take to clean up their affairs, or they honestly don't know.
I'm thinking of something titled, "A Year after the Funeral" to detail how and what needed to be done. Maybe it would open some eyes ??

pinkytoe
1-26-18, 10:27am
I am reading a book about Swedish death cleaning which is clearing out your belongings at around age 65 so that those left behind don't have to wade through your mess. I too came across my father's secret life after his passing. Boxes and boxes of love letters from another woman. So much better to burn that stuff so your children don't have to even know it ever happened. It has spurred me on to spend yesterday shredding.

SteveinMN
1-26-18, 10:51am
I can't help but wonder if there's a willful refusal to believe what it would take to clean up their affairs, or they honestly don't know.
I don't know about that...

On my mom's part, she was a child of The Depression; she never grew up with a lot of material things. And, for a number of reasons, she left home as soon as she possibly could with little more than the clothes on her back. For her, I think, having nice things marked a kind of victory over her upbringing, and getting rid of items solely because they didn't physically fit in her new living place(s) has happened reluctantly at best. Her childhood also (I think) made her put emphasis on giving people things. So there's as much in her house as she can crowd in and she's not motivated to declutter or minimalize beyond what her kids guilt her into doing. :|(

There also is, for her, some of the unfamiliarity that people now in their mid-80s have with the on-line world. She's got folders of stuff for whatever she does because electronic records are not preferable. So there's a volume of stuff that has to be managed and stored for her SS, pension, charge accounts, etc., and it will be harder (for me) to go through all that paper than to look at those records electronically. The best I can hope for is that she purges the paper that has no bearing on starting or ending those obligations.


Then there's me. I'm as much on-line with everything as I can be. Everything is backed up, almost always more than once. DW has access to my computer and to the password manager that gets her to all of our bank accounts, retirement funds, charge cards, etc. DW lived on her own for 20 years, so she's no stranger to running her own financial life, but she is not up-to-the-minute on our finances or all of the folders in my desk, partially because it's not an area of great interest and because she does not feel the need to be up-to-the-minute is imminent.

DW has been after me for a while to put the very basic stuff down on paper that she'll stuff in our safe-deposit box. For her, I'll do it. I have a handy-dandy form (that I downloaded from the Internet and -- gasp -- printed out) but I haven't filled it out because there's always something more pressing to do on any given day. It's not even procrastination, really; it's just suffering from insufficient priority and I sometimes hope nothing sudden happens to push it to the forefront when I can't do much about it.

It's also been several years since we reviewed our wills (as discussed in the Trusts thread). Yes, we should do it. But the logistics of it (both of us together, when the attorney is available, reviewing, etc.) make it so easy to push off the task till next week/month/whenever.

So IMHO it's not always refusal in the sense of being obstinate or in being clueless about it. For more than just our parents/grandparents, it's sometimes something we don't want to do for reasons we'd rather not address or it's lost in the hubbub of daily life, nevermind the effects of MYOB or dementia.

Simplemind
1-26-18, 11:46am
As far as material property goes, both of my parents grew up dirt poor. I know their "sparklies" meant a lot to them. There was great pride in starting from nothing and making a great life. I would have loved less stuff and more time and caring from them but they were imperfect people (as we all are) and we got what we got. Although their home was definitely and extension of them and what was important to them, it wasn't to us at all. They were almost insulted that we were not interested in any of it. I truly believe they would have been happy if we had huge fights over who got what. My dad in particular always wanted to be the guy that everybody envied and wanted what he had. If you didn't..... well something was wrong with YOU.

Teacher Terry
1-26-18, 12:14pm
Fortunately my Mom thought ahead and when she was 62 asked me to help her start cleaning out the house and having garage sales. We worked on this for about 2 years. Then when downsized her and my DAd who was very sick by then moved into an apartment. Once he died she got rid of his stuff and when she knew she was dying she got rid of a bunch more stuff so not that much to deal with when she died. She also prepaid her funeral, wrote her own obit, asked people to sing at her funeral and told them what songs to sing. She told us to sell her car and buy everyone lunch at a certain restaurant after the funeral which is what we did. She was born in 1920 and truly made things easy for us.

sweetana3
1-26-18, 12:55pm
Strange things are secrets in families. I found out my mother had been married 2X before my Dad yet they had all us kids thinking there was only the one marriage and they kept the secret for 61 years. Thank God she did not have any kids before my Dad although there was a 74 year old step brother in the mix.

Simplemind
1-27-18, 12:20pm
Bless your mom Teacher Terry. This process with my folks lit fire under me and we started downsizing ourselves right along with downsizing their property. Although we only had a fraction in comparison, we will never leave a mess like that for our kids. We also have all end of life information in a binder with instructions, account lists and passwords. We have sat down with them, discussed it, showed them where it is kept. We go over it once a year to make sure there aren't any changes to be made.

debbie
1-27-18, 12:50pm
Very sorry for your loss. I too am the one who takes care of my Dad. In our case, I took over his financial stuff when we learned of gambling losses. I was negotiating with his credit card companies and set up automatic payments. I'm a cpa so I was also doing his back taxes. I realized he was having trouble keeping up with it all. I offered to help and he just jumped at it. I felt a little bad that I hadn't offered sooner as he was so willing! But now he brags to people oh my accountant takes care of that! He paid off all 3 of his credit cards although it took 5 years. Now he has an 810 fico score! All he has is ss and his house. It is worth about $25000. Thank goodness he had the house. I love being able to help him but sometimes it would be nice to get more help. There's 8 kids but each time I try to get a hand it ends up being easier to do it myself! I'm so happy he is out of debt and has some savings now. Proud of him too for paying it all off. It has definitely made me think about my financial stuff. I am consolidating things and writing down passwords, account information etc to make it easier for my family when I go! We have an appointment to update our wills. We pre planned our funerals and the money is set aside. I did a major clean out this summer, but my husband won't let go of a lot. I'm 63 and hopefully not going anywhere soon,haha. But reading about everyone having to wade through family members accumulated stuff made me get serious this year. I know my Dad has mucho crap and when I visit we whittle away at it. I would like to get rid of all his clothes and start over. But that would hurt his feelings. So whittle away! Other than furniture and books, he doesn't have too much. His garage otoh will be a job!

SteveinMN
1-28-18, 9:31am
There's 8 kids but each time I try to get a hand it ends up being easier to do it myself!
Been there, done that myself. But don't let 'perfect' be the enemy of 'good'.

Doing it yourself does not teach any of your siblings how to do it. Like any other learned skill (walking, learning a new language, cooking, keeping records), there will be mistakes made along the way. So long as they're not fatal, they're great teaching tools.

saguaro
1-30-18, 12:10pm
This process with my folks lit fire under me and we started downsizing ourselves right along with downsizing their property. Although we only had a fraction in comparison, we will never leave a mess like that for our kids. We also have all end of life information in a binder with instructions, account lists and passwords.

Both my parents are now passed, my Dad this past October and my Mom in March 2015. To their credit, while Mom and Dad did make some efforts to get rid of larger stuff such as the camper and the old 2 ton printing press my dad bought to use in his retirement (and didn't), there's still so much. Partly because while they were getting rid of some stuff, they were still acquiring other stuff plus towards the end of their lives they didn't have the energy to deal with it. They both got too tired and ended up just holding on to everything. Their way of cleaning in preparation for guests was to move stuff to the attic or basement, so we found papers stuffed in IKEA bags (the kind you purchase) and brand new items (such as an ice cream maker never opened) on the basement floor.

The whole process of cleaning out their stuff has accelerated my decluttering efforts even more and DH is finally going through his massive comic book collection, because he finally acknowledges he has too much plus if he wants to get any money out of it, now's the time. He actually has a buyer lined up. I have been the one in charge of paying bills so now am showing DH what to do after seeing my Dad struggle with paying bills after Mom passed. I am donating some music equipment to an organization dedicated to providing local elementary school students with musical instruments.


Strange things are secrets in families. I found out my mother had been married 2X before my Dad yet they had all us kids thinking there was only the one marriage and they kept the secret for 61 years. Thank God she did not have any kids before my Dad although there was a 74 year old step brother in the mix.

One sister's MIL found out after her father's death that he was married before her mother, complete with another family in another part of the country. She had no inkling of this other family and she believes her mother didn't either. Another discovery: one of my BILs found out after his parents passed that he had a half-brother, his father's son from before his parents' marriage while dad was stationed overseas in WWII. What's also been interesting has been the varying responses to these discoveries: MIL actually connected with her half-siblings and has regularly visited them while my BIL would have nothing to do with the half-brother who contacted him and pretty much told him (the half brother) to get lost.

I recently destroyed old letters, cards, etc. from old boyfriends. Hadn't looked at them in years but prompted me to do so was this article: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/schmich/ct-mary-schmich-met-20170210-column.html

debbie
2-1-18, 5:35pm
True, Steve. My brother has been helping recently which is great since he lives 2 blocks away from Dad while I live 2 hours away!