View Full Version : Having a bit of an identity crisis.....work related.......
gimmethesimplelife
3-10-18, 3:38pm
This is my very busy season right now and since I have part of today off, I thought I'd better post the following while I have time to do so. Namely, there is an upcoming vacancy in the Banquet Staffing Service office and I've been invited to apply for it - though I am not a shoe in for it and would be competing against other applicants were I to apply.
The job itself would mean a significant income leap and more stability BUT would come with the need to costume for a professional environment plus the need to buy a car and the car would have to be reasonably late model and unfortunately, appearances matter here so that car would cost money. I have not done the math that YMOYL recommends to calculate the real hourly wage due to my being unsure if I want to apply or not but this seems like a good way to start with my decision. Though this job would be along
the lines of what I studied for in college years ago -it is in somewhat direct conflict with my life in the 85006 and my identity/beliefs and I'm having a real hard time with this. Also I worry to apply for this job - whether or not I get it if I apply - would be being disrespectful to the Austrian flag and my people/Homeland. I'm having a real hard time with that, too.
It boils down to this for me: Exactly what do I draw identity from? And what exactly do I owe the 85006 and what exactly do I owe the Austrian flag? And is money enough for me to turn my back on such? OTOH, at my age, how often can I expect such an opportunity to come along? It's a bit of a miracle I made it off the line into a Site Supervisor position to begin with. To say I'm conflicted here is the understatement of my year thus far.
Ultimately this is my decision as an adult but I thought since some of you here are familiar with my postings I'd ask for feedback......Thanks in advance. And I guess there is a compliment here buried in this for me too - were the Banquet Staffing Service unhappy with me, I would not have been invited to apply for this soon to be vacant professional job. Decisions, decisions.........Rob
Why would this be disrespectful to Austria?
People need good managers. If you have the qualifications why not take the job? Would you rather the line staff work for a jerk?
Possibly you could find a short term lease on a presentable looking car while you try out the job. Some of the clothes might be available at a second hand store. When I got my current job I bought an item or two each payday to supplement my interview outfits rather than buying a bunch of things at once while I was still in my probationary period.
We need good people in leadership, I had similar fears as I promoted but I’ve never regretted it.
Go for it! With more money for your efforts, you will be able to do more good in the world.
Is a professional job somehow at odds with Austrian culture or tradition?
I cannot fathom why a fancy expensive care is required unless you ferry people around like a real estate sales position or are some kind of taxi service for others and want to show off. A clean car without dents that works and gets you to places on time is all I would consider necessary. College kids usually think a new car is the first thing they have to have when getting their first professional job.
Beware buying lots of new clothes until you take the time to scope out the actual working wardrobe at the new job.
My husband asked me if the employers were NeoNazis? Otherwise, how could the job be in any way disrespectful to a country? I feel confident the same job exists in Austria.
College kids usually think a new car is the first thing they have to have when getting their first professional job.
My boss at my previous company was a billionaire. When we started the company, he had a negative net worth (grad school debts). Well after he became wealthy, he was still tooling around in the beat-up '70s-vintage Honda 600 he'd had since he was in college. It looked sort of like this picture, except all rusty and smoking:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3f/Honda_600.jpg/800px-Honda_600.jpg
We used to loan him "a real car" when he needed to go meet with anyone who cared about appearances.
Chicken lady
3-10-18, 4:46pm
I also am confused. When you say “costume for a professional environment” do you mean some form of actual costume derived from traditional Austrian ethnic dress? Is the Austrian flag part of the costume? Are you catering such that customers will see you unload their food or linens from your car? Do you have no choice but to park out front in a highly visible location such that your car will telegraph the potential quality of the establishment?
Men have it much easier than women when it comes to dress work clothes. What would really be needed? Are we talking suits or dark dress pants, some shirts, and ties?
Men have it much easier than women when it comes to dress work clothes. What would really be needed? Are we talking suits or dark dress pants, some shirts, and ties?
Polo shirts and khakis?
Whenever I have a hard decision like that, I throw the future into the mix. How will it benefit me down the road? I am not understanding what your decision has to do with your hood and beliefs. Would it not be better to move forward than stay stuck just because others are? Or maybe I am missing the point.
I understand Warren Buffet lives in the same modest house he's lived in all his married life, and I bet he's supportive of his community, too. You don't have to wear a hair shirt to make a difference.
What's your relationship with the 85006 and Austria that you've given them control over your life? Or, is that just an excuse not to leave your comfort zone?
So, let me see if I understand this correctly, having a professional job betrays the neighborhood and the working class people there? Does it somehow destroy your “street cred” or something like that? I don’t get the Austria connection, though. Seems I’m not the only one missing that connection.
How do those in your neighborhood react when one of their own “makes good”? Do they consider it a betrayal, the person getting too big for their britches, or consorting with the enemy, a Spanish equivalent of an “Uncle Tom”?
ToomuchStuff
3-11-18, 12:18am
Polo shirts and khakis?
If the khakis required a red armband, then I could see a problem with Austrian heritage maybe?:confused:
As is, didn't he have a post some time back, about buying a nice impeachment outfit, that might be "professional dress".
As to the vehicle, there was a local caterer I knew, that always had used vans with better then 100K on them, they just looked clean. (figuring he would have to transport stuff to/from events)
Professionally he looked good, but he was an idiot. When they catered an award event for Anwar Sadat's wife (peace prize thing), he had to be told to not bring the recovered/spoils of war, silver serving steamer things that had swastika's on them.
What does your zip code have to do with any of this? Are you afraid they will protest you?
I should have mentioned the book "The Millionaire Next Door". People with fancy trappings are often empty in the pocket.
gimmethesimplelife
3-16-18, 12:19pm
Thanks for the replies, everyone. It's hard for me to reply quickly as this is Peak Season in Phoenix right now and I'm swamped with work.....but my checks are reflecting that and for that I am grateful.
About the Austrian flag and the issue of respect.....not to beat a dead horse (and it really is at this point for those of you familiar with my posts).....as I see it Austria is a much better country than the United States. The standard of living there is noticeably higher for everyday people and there is much more security in life there as far as almost everyone qualifies for social welfare of some sort, with no insane and soul crushing stigma attached to such as in the US as a social engineering vehicle to keep more money in the upper classes (13 years old when I knew this). Socialized medicine, six weeks off with pay every year, a month's salary bonus right before Christmas every year....the quality of life in Austria truly makes America look pathetic. No getting around this one I'm afraid for those unable to drink US society's Kool-Aid such as myself.
Given the above, and the fact that Austria has a much more equitable distribution of wealth and without the social requirement that life exists only for work as it does in America.....of course I am going to consider myself Austrian over being American. Who wouldn't given these facts of cold-blooded common sense? As to how this ties into interviewing for a higher position, I worry that I am being disrespectful to Austria as in Austria you are looked down on and disrespected for trying to rise much higher over your station in life. Austria is a country in which the majority of the population is much more equal and there is blessedly little reason or incentive to keep reaching for more and keep reaching higher - yet another reason why the quality of life in Austria is so much higher than in America. It is very important to me to respect my heritage - other than issues in the two major world wars (Austria's past is less than innocent, I admit this here and now) Austria really does have it's act together and is a better deal than America. Of course I am going to be guided by this fact in most life decisions of any weight.
I also don't wish to be disrespectful to the 85006 - it is only luck that has allowed me to bank some money - luck that not all 85006 residents are going to experience. And given that I know the truth about America, it indeed would be disrespectful to rise too high or at least ever show off my bigger checks or ever flaunt any money period. I could not do this as I have known too much fear of the United States and how little human life means here as is evidenced by the inhumane and extremely insulting lack of socialized medicine for all.
Getting to the point - for some of you, applying for a higher job is not going to be so problematic as it is for me. Because of being able to see straight through this country I come with a great deal of social class baggage many of you are not going to understand. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
3-16-18, 12:26pm
Came back to add - about the car - I would need something fairly late model as this position involves some servicing of client accounts and appearance unfortunately comes into play at the expense of how much money I can bank against this citizenship. (i.e., how quickly can I get out of the rat race to justify exposing myself to this soul crushing emphasis on appearances over practicality). Due to having to drive clients to work sites for inspections of site process flow(s), auto appearances and office clothing costuming (read YMOYL for thoughts regarding costuming for office work) come into play whether I like it or not and these unreimbursed cash outflows have to be cold-bloodedly factored into any decision I make.
I will be off next Monday morning and will try to compute a real hourly wage for this position then. Rob
Teacher Terry
3-16-18, 12:46pm
Rob, the European countries are small so it is much easier for these countries then for the US to afford and make policies. They are the size of one of our states. Not all of those countries are doing better then us. The Poles have had to go t other countries for jobs and even though they have universal healthcare the cost of living is high in comparison to what they earn. I think it is wise to compare what you will need to buy if you get the new position to see if it makes financial sense.
I would think all the refugees flooding into European countries will be putting a lot of stress on the welfare systems.
rosarugosa
3-16-18, 4:16pm
Rob,
It's not like you have relentlessly clawed your way to the top, kicking and pushing anyone in your path. Rather it sounds like your skills and experience are opening some additional opportunities for you. That's a good thing for you and your co-workers and the organization, no matter what country you are in.
I went to graduate school with an Austrian woman who said things were very discouraging for her back home, the most she could hope for was to work as a maid.. There were few positions for educated people and most jobs were obtained based on who you know not what you know.
flowerseverywhere
3-16-18, 6:41pm
[QUOTE=gimmethesimplelife;292720
About the Austrian flag and the issue of respect.....not to beat a dead horse (and it really is at this point for those of you familiar with my posts).....as I see it Austria is a much better country than the United States. The standard of living there is noticeably higher for everyday people and there is much more security in life there as far as almost everyone qualifies for social welfare of some sort, with no insane and soul crushing stigma attached to such as in the US as a social engineering vehicle to keep more money in the upper classes (13 years old when I knew this). Socialized medicine, six weeks off with pay every year, a month's salary bonus right before Christmas every year....the quality of life in Austria truly makes America look pathetic. No getting around this one I'm afraid for those unable to drink US society's Kool-Aid such as myself.
Given the above, and the fact that Austria has a much more equitable distribution of wealth and without the social requirement that life exists only for work as it does in America.....of course I am going to consider myself Austrian over being American. Who wouldn't given these facts of cold-blooded common sense? As to how this ties into interviewing for a higher position, I worry that I am being disrespectful to Austria as in Austria you are looked down on and disrespected for trying to rise much higher over your station in life. Austria is a country in which the majority of the population is much more equal and there is blessedly little reason or incentive to keep reaching for more and keep reaching higher - yet another reason why the quality of life in Austria is so much higher than in America. It is very important to me to respect my heritage - other than issues in the two major world wars (Austria's past is less than innocent, I admit this here and now) Austria really does have it's act together and is a better deal than America. Of course I am going to be guided by this fact in most life decisions of any weight.
Rob[/QUOTE]
rob, I have been doing reading about Austria since you posted and it looks like the new leaders are far more like Donald Trump than Obama. They have tried to cut and cap benefits for refugees, and there has been much difficulty of the large number of immigrants assimilating.
http://www.infomigrants.net/en/post/8042/austria-to-continue-benefits-for-asylum-seekers
if there is one thing I have learned is the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. After a career working in mental health I have seen when people take the geographic cure they take their problems with them. Every one of us sees what we want to see and hears what we want to hear.
Austria may be more equitable, but they also took in a very large number of immigrants which strains the best run systems.
Also, it is not over. New waves of people are coming from Syria and as the climate changes poor people in Africa and Asia will be looking to escape starvation. Millions of children starve to death every year and I cannot imagine more of an incentive to seek asylum. Europe will continue to grapple with this tragic issue, as we continue to grapple with people fleeing Central America.
If you have that much guilt over taking this job, then don’t take it. Period. End of story.
Austria you are looked down on and disrespected for trying to rise much higher over your station in life.
I think you're projecting from the 85006. In much of Europe, its not that you can't be successful, it's just considered gauche to /flaunt/ your wealth in obvious ways. Big difference. There are millionaires in Austria, and the percentage of them is growing. If you aren't "allowed" to be successful, how can this be?
If you are uncomfortable with the prospect of a new job with more money, don't take it. Sounds like you are grasping for reasons not to try.
ToomuchStuff
3-17-18, 1:36am
If you are uncomfortable with the prospect of a new job with more money, don't take it. Sounds like you are grasping for reasons not to try.
While at the same time, making an official renouncing of citizenship?:confused:
gimmethesimplelife
3-19-18, 3:50pm
Hi everyone and once again, Thank You for the replies. I am in the height of Season right now and don't have much time to even post a short post - Thankfully there's plenty of OT at the moment and Thankfully the light is at the end of the tunnel.....three weeks from now my hours will be cut back. I just wanted to come back and post that I decided to go ahead and apply for this position - what did it is that I believe I owe it to the 85006 to do so - I owe the 85006 the increased taxes I would be paying into the system if I indeed were promoted to this position. And even if I don't get this position - I've decided to keep my site supervisor position and not step back down to banquet server status.
Pretty radical, coming from me, no? I will be glad to respond to various posters here and also give more reasons for my decision but I've got to run to the pharmacy now and won't be home until very late....will reply when I can. Thanks again to those who responded. Rob
PS....wanted to add that I spoke to my family in Vienna and they support my applying for this position - they believe that I would not let any promotion go to my head and that I would continue to behave appropriate in life in accordance with my Austrian heritage. Phew! That was a load off my back, to be given my family's blessing......and I gotta go, good day to all!
rosarugosa
3-19-18, 5:31pm
Yay Rob - good for you!
Teacher Terry
3-19-18, 6:59pm
Good luck Rob!
Good luck! I would have thought banquets are in high season during the spring/summer due to weddings. But perhaps that is different in the southwest due to the heat.
in Austria you are looked down on and disrespected for trying to rise much higher over your station in life.
I’m curious. What is “your station”? Is your station something you are born into? Does Austria have some sort of unchanging caste system? Is your station linked to your family, your race, your religion, what? (Ask your relatives about the Lager class structure in Austrian history. It might not really be a selling point for you.)
I mean, if I stuck to my “station”, I’d be toothless, eat roadkill, and do odd jobs in between making runs of moonshine.
gimmethesimplelife
3-21-18, 2:32pm
I’m curious. What is “your station”? Is your station something you are born into? Does Austria have some sort of unchanging caste system? Is your station linked to your family, your race, your religion, what? (Ask your relatives about the Lager class structure in Austrian history. It might not really be a selling point for you.)
I mean, if I stuck to my “station”, I’d be toothless, eat roadkill, and do odd jobs in between making runs of moonshine.I believe it's hard for most people who believe in America to grasp this, but here goes: In Austria it's much easier, much more expected, much more achievable and much more everyday to be in the middle class. The price tag you pay for this along with being more required to fit in is that you are expected to not rock the boat or reach for more. If you have ambition, Austria is not the best place to be to be frank. If you want to struggle less and compete less and if middle class with access to social welfare America brutally deems human life not being worth such access to - then Austria is a bit of paradise. It's all about what works for you......you'all know I fit better into the Austrian way than the American way and always have.
Given the truth of my last two sentences.....of course I'm going to be very concious of any appearance of rising too far above my lot in life.....it would be un-Austrian to do so, and I believe I've made it clear that I am someone for whom Austria is a better deal. Clear? Rob
PS As to your original question,my station in America has been twofold: Edge of slum at various points in my life and then an increase to very lower middle class. The train has accelerated past this last station lately, though......but you'd never know it in how I behave, act, conduct my life, eat, dress, speak - you'd never really know I was doing better economically these days. As always I respect my heritage - here is a concrete example. If this makes no sense to any of you, I volley back with the following: Human life is worth socialized medicine in Austria but not in the United States. Given that human life is held this cheap in America, and that the system indeed makes this brutally clear via this fundamental lack, would it not be wrong for me to not be guided by my Austrian heritage when confronted with a serious life decision, especially one in which money plays a starring role?
I will never understand why America and why so many of it's citizens believe that America should be immune from having the script flipped on it in such a way.....to me it's like breathing air - it comes naturally. But that's just me and other people's mileage is going to differ, I get that. At least I live in the 85006 where no one is going to judge me or look down on me for flipping the script in this way. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
3-21-18, 2:37pm
Rob,
It's not like you have relentlessly clawed your way to the top, kicking and pushing anyone in your path. Rather it sounds like your skills and experience are opening some additional opportunities for you. That's a good thing for you and your co-workers and the organization, no matter what country you are in.Rosarugosa - I just wanted you to know that although we have never met, I factored your post here into my decision to apply for the promotion. You raise very good and very humane points here that resonate with me. I've always believed I really don't have any real skills - until recently when I have realized that I do indeed have leadership ability and that I am a hard worker and mostly, that I'm fair. I'm also good at thinking quickly on my feet and I'm also good at making order out of chaos. These are indeed worthwhile skills useful in the workplace.
At any rate, your post here really had a positive impact on me so I just wanted to say Thanks! And even if I don't get this job, at least I will have tried and at least I've come to realize that I am not entirely worthless in the workplace. All good things. Rob
Teacher Terry
3-21-18, 2:51pm
Rob, you have value at work or they would not have promoted you. My parents wanted their kids to rise above their station in life and we all did. Being stuck to fit in sucks in my opinion. I wouldn't give up my right to strife for what I want for free security. European countries are small like our states so I think it is easier to give more benefits to a smaller group of people. That being said I am all for Medicare for everyone with people being expected to pay a amount that is affordable depending on your income. The more $ you make the more you pay because you can afford to do this. That way when many people retire they won't have to choose between eating and paying for their meds.
ApatheticNoMore
3-21-18, 2:53pm
I was offered management once and turned it down, but I didn't make a big deal of it, mostly because I turned it down because I didn't think I was a personality fit for it really at least not at the time. Besides there are few sure career paths (maybe government work ha), I think management can dead-end too especially if you don't stay with the company (less a risk if one is older to start out with because just earn the big bucks and get out, but if younger it's not always so clear that it is better to be queen bee than worker bee.).
rosarugosa
3-21-18, 5:25pm
Rosarugosa - I just wanted you to know that although we have never met, I factored your post here into my decision to apply for the promotion. You raise very good and very humane points here that resonate with me. I've always believed I really don't have any real skills - until recently when I have realized that I do indeed have leadership ability and that I am a hard worker and mostly, that I'm fair. I'm also good at thinking quickly on my feet and I'm also good at making order out of chaos. These are indeed worthwhile skills useful in the workplace.
At any rate, your post here really had a positive impact on me so I just wanted to say Thanks! And even if I don't get this job, at least I will have tried and at least I've come to realize that I am not entirely worthless in the workplace. All good things. Rob
Thanks for that feedback Rob. I'm glad my words had some value. :)
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