Mosque protest in the 63104

[iris lilies]

A local issue heated up this weekend and as per Rob’s leadership, I will be actively protesting in the 63104 the building of a mosque down the street.

Proposed mosque does not hit some of the major points of the historic code for the neighborhood.

Proposed mosque plan can still be tweaked to better suit the site, respecting set backs of existing historic buildings, and having it interact with the street in ways that commercial buildings should.

The Board that oversees this type of issue illegally approved it, with only 3 of 9 members present at the meeting. That is not a quorum. The Board ignored protests of the neighborhood organization, protests that were detailed and reasonable in their requests for concession in the architectural plan.
My friend is on that Board. I called him last night on this issue, he didnt answer, he hasnt called back and will not likely call back. no matter I will see him at the meeting today.

Given my loyalty to old buildings and the distain I discovered when I was 8 (or 12? Or 13?) that society here holds towards them, how can I live with myself if I do not take this opportunity to participate in this protest? My relatives in Scotland also like old buildings and are shocked and appalled at America’s sociopathic disregard for historic structures. The loyalty I feel to the Auld Country guides me in this protest.
and etc.

[catherine]

Given my loyalty to old buildings and the distain I discovered when I was 8 (or 12? Or 13?) that society here holds towards them, how can I live with myself if I do not take this opportunity to participate in this protest? My relatives in Scotland also like old buildings and are shocked and appalled at America’s sociopathic disregard for historic structures. The loyalty I feel to the Auld Country guides me in this protest.
and etc.

I totally agree with you and your kin on the "sociopathic disregard for historic structures" in America.

I recently signed a petition to protect this building in my home town of Milford, CT. Never mind that my relatives were part of the original settlers of the town, this home is a landmark to one of the founding fathers (NOT my relative). But someone just bought it so they could raze it and build a bunch of apartment buildings. So my homies got active and saved it!!

https://www.nhregister.com/metro/article/Board-says-no-to-demolishing-historic-home-12768384.php

So, I hope you have the same good luck. I have to say, your protest has a certain level of complexity because you know people will brand you guys Islamophobes. How you are guys going to help mitigate that perception?

[iris lilies]

I totally agree with you and your kin on the "sociopathic disregard for historic structures" in America.

I recently signed a petition to protect this building in my home town of Milford, CT. Never mind that my relatives were part of the original settlers of the town, this home is a landmark to one of the founding fathers (NOT my relative). But someone just bought it so they could raze it and build a bunch of apartment buildings. So my homies got active and saved it!!

https://www.nhregister.com/metro/article/Board-says-no-to-demolishing-historic-home-12768384.php

So, I hope you have the same good luck. I have to say, your protest has a certain level of complexity because you know people will brand you guys Islamophobes. How you are guys going to help mitigate that perception?

Islamaphobes? What is that?

We are talking architectural standards. I know nothing ‘bout how Islam or Muslims themselves figure in this issue. :~)

And yes, I do absolutely think this group is being granted concessions because of who they are. It is a bit fun to watch the leaders of this protest wriggle with discomfort in who they are meeting up against. It doesnt sit well with their SJW friends.

[iris lilies]

I forgot to mention that I now have a bag packed, ready to flee to Romania or thereabouts, where they respect old buildings (well, those that the communists didnt tear down) and where I can live a life of free of gnawing fear. How can I ever agree with America for its lack of human respect in supporting crappy new architecture!!??? I figured out when I was 12 that old buildings just are not valued here. Old Europe, here I come. Even my 8 year old self figured out what America was about.

[Teacher Terry]

:~) -Enjoying your posts. Anyways this is not about social justice but architectural laws so it doesn't matter who they are they must follow the requirements. I have been to Krakow twice and love the old buildings, etc. So beautiful. I had wanted to go to WArsaw for the same reason but then read that all their buildings were bombed during the World Wars and replaced with lovely communist cement block buildings. WE took a cruise that left from Galveston, TX and no 2 houses were the same. You would love it.

[catherine]

I forgot to mention that I now have a bag packed, ready to flee to Romania or thereabouts, where they respect old buildings (well, those that the communists didnt tear down) and where I can live a life of free of gnawing fear. How can I ever agree with America for its lack of human respect in supporting crappy new architecture!!??? I figured out when I was 12 that old buildings just are not valued here. Old Europe, here I come. Even my 8 year old self figured out what America was about.

It took me a little longer than it took you. When I went to Italy for the first time and saw buildings constructed around and on top of rubble--that was awesome.

And if Jackie Kennedy and her history-loving cohorts hadn't saved Grand Central Terminal, that would have been a true tragedy.

I don't even live in Staten Island, but I'm still mad at them for tearing down Dorothy Day's cottage (https://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/10/nyregion/staten-island-cottages-used-by-dorothy-day-are-demolished.html).

And I also signed petitions and wrote a letter to Mayor DiBlasio to save Mount Manresa. (https://www.ncronline.org/blogs/grace-margins/paradise-lost-jesuits-sell-oldest-retreat-house-pristine-forest-developers)

And that's why I love/hate HGTV. There was one buyer I LOVED (I usually hate them with a passion) because in Fixer-Upper he chose the house with real historical value--for that reason! It was a shotgun house in LA. He said he wanted it because it was a piece of Louisiana history and he wanted to honor the architectural style. So they saved it, but to be honest, it looked NOTHING like the original when Chip and Joanna were done. Joanna's usually pretty good at honoring the heritage of a house, but she blew it this time.

I'm with you 100%.

[iris lilies]

I totally agree with you and your kin on the "sociopathic disregard for historic structures" in America.

I recently signed a petition to protect this building in my home town of Milford, CT. Never mind that my relatives were part of the original settlers of the town, this home is a landmark to one of the founding fathers (NOT my relative). But someone just bought it so they could raze it and build a bunch of apartment buildings. So my homies got active and saved it!!

https://www.nhregister.com/metro/article/Board-says-no-to-demolishing-historic-home-12768384.php

So, I hope you have the same good luck. I have to say, your protest has a certain level of complexity because you know people will brand you guys Islamophobes. How you are guys going to help mitigate that perception?
That is a pretty old house and I am glad it is not coming down.

[iris lilies]

I am now thinking that the staff of the architectural review office need to be fired or put on trial and their pension seized, and the citizen Board all fired for acting illegally and immorally in failing to meet quorum requirements. Basic human dignity calls for that.

[catherine]

That is a pretty old house and I am glad it is not coming down.

:confused:

[razz]

Lack of quorum is the real issue as it can be manipulated in so many ways if repeated.

[LDAHL]

I am now thinking that the staff of the architectural review office need to be fired or put on trial and their pension seized, and the citizen Board all fired for acting illegally and immorally in failing to meet quorum requirements. Basic human dignity calls for that.

And there should be huge settlements for everybody!

[Ultralight]

How about doing a public reading for the Quran at the demonstration? I think that would be rather educational to the public.

[Tybee]

It is a pretty house, Iris, just wish I could get to those bushes and scrub trees with pruners.

[flowerseverywhere]

I am now thinking that the staff of the architectural review office need to be fired or put on trial and their pension seized, and the citizen Board all fired for acting illegally and immorally in failing to meet quorum requirements. Basic human dignity calls for that.
Do you have video on your cellphone of the vote? Lawsuit.

[iris lilies]

Do you have video on your cellphone of the vote? Lawsuit.
Oh no! I forgot that essential protest tool! I am such a newby at this.

fortunately the entire hearing yesterday was put on video because that is their standard. Of course two tv channels were there, filming. Because Muslim hate.

Now I have to confess that I do not even know how the appeal turned put because DH and I had to leave for another meeting, a community garden meeting about grabbing land for more gardens. Such is the life of us community activists in the 63104.

I will read up about the mosque appeal’s outcome, but I am pretty sure my side lost. I have lots to say about that and may say it later.

[JaneV2.0]

I hope the statement was publicly made, and underlined, that your protest was of the quorum-free vote and the mosque design, and not the existence of the proposed mosque.

[iris lilies]

I hope the statement was publicly made, and underlined, that your protest was of the quorum-free vote and the mosque design, and not the existence of the proposed mosque.
Only about a billion times. The quorum problem of the Board, that is just a technicality. The entire siting of the building is the huge issue. They are treating their building like it is in the suburbs.

The building itself is sorta ok and here I mean the architecture. It aint grand, but is it passable, and they made many revisions to get it to this place.

[iris lilies]

This reminds me that I had an interesting book challange when I was working. A library patron filed an official complaint that the Quran at one of our library branches wasnt shelved on the highest shelf, as is required for respecting it in the world of Islam. It should be above all books, according to this complaint.

That idea got into some complex analysis as to if a Quran in English is really a sacred book in the Islam theology. Our Qurans were either English or Arabic/ English editions and it was postulated that these are not true sacred books. I later contacted the person who complained to discuss this issue and that contact phone was disconnected. So it ended weakly, no change in our practices of shelving this item.

[JaneV2.0]

I have noticed that compatibility of size and scale within older neighborhoods is often ignored--at least in Portland, where developers like to raze modest bungalows and infill with big, boxy, rapidly-constructed monstrosities. Neighbors are aghast, naturally.

[Yppej]

IL with warm weather coming you should have many more protest opportunities. It can become a social outlet. If the Board doesn't rule the way you want you can hang around the construction site and look for violations. And if construction workers wolf whistle at you then you get the Me Too movement involved as well. Or even if they wolf whistle at younger people but not you because that is age discrimination.

[iris lilies]

IL with warm weather coming you should have many more protest opportunities. It can become a social outlet. If the Board doesn't rule the way you want you can hang around the construction site and look for violations. And if construction workers wolf whistle at you then you get the Me Too movement involved as well. Or even if they wolf whistle at younger people but not you because that is age discrimination.
Damn, you people are good! These last issues afford me an opportunity to jump on the victim bandwagon, possily equaling or excelling the Imam’s sad tale of persecution.

our side lost, not surprisingly.

also not surprisingly, this news source covered only the weakest testimony for our side.

The Preservation Board and the building commissioner are issuing a varience to the building code essentially because Muslim. well, folks, that’s politics for ya.


http://fox2now.com/2018/03/26/muslim-community-gets-final-nod-to-build-new-mosque-despite-neighborhood-opposition/

[JaneV2.0]

I've never considered myself a victim as I protested; I considered myself a citizen making my voice heard.

We "little people" only have power when we join together. Of course, I also contact my representatives, send money, vote, etc.

I'm sorry your protest didn't work out more favorably; it seemed reasonable as you described it.