View Full Version : Getting old: Defy or accept?
Ultralight
3-29-18, 6:07am
I am noticing some grey hair on the sides of my head and quite a bit in my beard. I have some deep lines on my forehead (each one is named in honor of the ex-girlfriend who put it there).
I am not tempted to dye my hair or beard (Just For Men is for disguises only).
But do you -- and this question is for the men and the ladies (and various other sexes and genders) -- defy aging or accept it?
I know I am turned off when I see women with dyed hair or fake b00bs and when I see an older guy with a dye job and a fake tan I just think: "What a d-bag."
But I am being harsh? Would it be better for my career or social life if I defied age instead of just drifting along with it?
Thoughts?
UL, age really is a state of mind.
I have a 96 year old neighbour who defies age, takes no meds, visits nursing homes to play cards with residents, drives to church on Sunday and bustles about in her everyday life. She is an inspiration.
As far others and what they do with colouring, I am startled when I see very wrinkled faces of whatever sex with black or often reddish coloured hair. Often I am chuckling with their approach to life which is feisty. It is their choice and I am glad that they feel the freedom to make the choice.
As a child, I had white-blond hair, as an adult it was mousy brown aka ash brown. With DH's help one day, I tried to dye my hair. When I was rinsing off the dye, DH quietly said, "Ooops". My hair was an orangey-red. I was horrified and then started laughing. At work it was a conversation topic with patients. It grew out and I never dyed my hair again. As time went by it gradually turned pepper/salt and now is a natural pearlized whitish-blond as my hairdresser calls it. Several people have asked me the colour of my hair dye. It suits my skin colour perfectly.
Age definitely is an attitude IMO.
I love this topic.
Essentially I have no problem with doing whatever makes a person feel comfortable. I dyed my hair for a decade or more, just because I thought it was what older women do, and because I didn't want any gray to make me look older for business purposes.
But, philosophically, I'm an "accepter." Maybe because of my love of permaculture and the cycle of life, I honor the different seasons and see my role in each one. Do we go around spray painting vibrant fall leaves green? No!! We say, "Look at how beautiful the leaves are!" and we go on tours up North to view them.
It helps that when I think of my elders, I'm inspired by their elder-beauty, so it makes me want to be like them. They look old, but they are so beautiful.
When I see celebrities that seemingly haven't aged a day over three decades, I see a lack of authenticity. I once read that someone asked Bette Davis why she didn't get plastic surgery, she responded, "My dear, who would I be kidding?"
At the same time, I believe in maintenance. I do appreciate a good smile. Good health is anti-aging. Just a couple of days ago I had a Master Gardener class with the Rutgers greenhouse director. She is probably about my age, and she was gorgeous. Her hair was still long, but grey and wavy, she was spry and her eyes lit up in a constant state of enthusiasm.
I just turned 66. Two years ago I stopped dying my hair, but it doesn't look as gorgeous as the greenhouse director's. I keep begging my kids to tell me the truth as to whether or not I should do highlights, or go blonde again, and they tell me I look fine (although my daughter did tell me I should splurge with a dye job when I got a big gift card to a nice salon I used to go to when I could afford it). My gray doesn't seem to be hindering my ability to get jobs. But I have to admit, I look in the mirror and I sometimes feel I look "old."
UL, I love grey hair on guys. Plus you are YOUNG! (I think you are around my kids' age, right? Thirty-something?) I know you start FEELING old at that age, but you are far from it. Just continue to embrace who you are. You defy age when you do what you can to stay healthy. Other than that, you can defy age, but age is going to win eventually.
happystuff
3-29-18, 7:37am
In my opinion: accept or deny doesn't really matter as the aging process will continue regardless. I just turned 60 and am quite happy telling people. I don't color my hair, I don't wear makeup. I somewhat disagree that "age is a state of mind", rather I think "life/living is a state of mind". Forget the numbers and just be yourself - whoever that is at the moment.
dado potato
3-29-18, 8:08am
For every ailment under the sun
There is a remedy, or there is none.
If there be one, try to find it;
If there be none, never mind it.
Mother Goose, 1695
Chicken lady
3-29-18, 8:21am
My physical age defying activities are exercise and moisturizer. Also working on my nutrition.
but I have never worn make up except for costumes, and I stopped cutting my hair (at all) 15 years ago.
Some might call it deciding to age gracefully, I just call it laziness on my part. Since I started working at home full time (maybe 3 ish years ago), I stopped wearing makeup during the week (who ever sees me?) and last summer I stopped coloring my hair. I don't really like the look of it, plus my gray hair is ultra thin (and I used to have so much thick hair it was hard to get a good cut), so not sure that is a permanent decision, but for now I'm just too lazy to keep up with that kind of maintenance. Even when I do wear makeup, its minimal these days. Who am I kidding with a full mask anyways?
I'm the make-up lite type myself, and I don't color my hair, but when I see a before/after video like this, I have to admit reconsidering my current "laziness" as herbgeek put it. I identify with the mom in it--I don't look exactly like her, but she's got my "style" FWIW.
http://tiphero.com/gray-hair-makeover/?utm_source=fbbp&utm_medium=dk&utm_campaign=gray-hair-makeover-dk&utm_hob=2
I think a healthy-looking, fit male with grey hair (and maybe some trimmed facial hair) is quite attractive. Weird me - I like to observe people in the checkout line at the grocery. Yesterday, there was an older man in front of me - I am guessing in his mid to late 70s. He was tall and slender with white hair and goatee. He smiled a lot as he conversed with the cashier. His cart was full of healthy food items. We are always learning from our elders whether we admit it or not. I know that observing my in-laws as they aged convinced me that it is about staying involved and curious about the world - they did not. They became sick and miserable in their 60s.
gimmethesimplelife
3-29-18, 9:49am
Here's a gay male take on this issue. I'm glad, yes, glad, to be 51 years of age and see youth way behind me in my rear view mirror. Now that I've aged and that I show it, those gay men who are shallow and looks obsessed are not even going to notice that I am alive (and these are types I'd have little in common with and would likely not get along with anyway) and those who do notice I am alive are types that I would be more likely to get along with. Age has served to screen men out of my life that would tend to be problematic and frustrating to begin with. I've really learned to appreciate this aspect of aging.
I recently came across a photo taken of myself when I was 17 - I honestly like how I look better now. There are aches and pains I have now and I do miss having a full head of hair - but what is, is, and I like this version of myself today. And as for gay society or even society in general thinking that I should be buffed up and young and do something about my lack of hair - I say start paying all my bills and then I will care about your mere opinion(s). Rob
I think I am healthier now at 69 than I was earlier. I eat better. I don't seem to have as much energy, but it could be I am just more relaxed. I've colored my hair for years and did try to let it grow out, but the white around my face just washed me out, so I am still coloring it a dark blonde. I never wore make up so that hasn't changed. I'm round, but have always been. I have more aches. But, generally I'd say I am accepting of my aging but not the white hair, yet.
Wow, Catherine, just watched that video and wow. Must reconsider my hair--it looked great.
I'm 51. Blondish with a tad bit of grey if I look hard. I think the Indian background on my mom's side keeps us from going grey early. Grandma was natural until mid-70's when grey suddenly showed up on her head and she never went completely grey. But my dad had beautiful silver by his mid-30's and my brother has done the same. I add a few strands of streaky lighter blonde highlights every few months.
I use over the counter wrinkle filler (olay) for the forehead lines and keep a few wispy bangs to cover as well. Coconut oil at night on those same forehead lines and around the eyes.
And just for that I thought it was time I update my profile photo. Hadn't done that in years and years!
As long as a person is well moisturized and has a good spirit about them then wrinkles show joy over hardships.
Feet are my thing. Men and Women both should be using good moisturizer on heels and toes and keep their toenails in good healthy shape. Old crusty thick heals and thick ugly unkempt thick toenails are an age show for sure. Pedicures (at home or salon, I don't care) are a good thing as well as a visit to the podiatrist to keep any foot problems at bay.
iris lilies
3-29-18, 12:14pm
Well, if you are expressing concern about aging only in the “looks” category you are lucky indeed because the stuff that really matters is health degeneration.
Mother Nature kindly allows us to start noticing and accepting the aging process with slight physical changes like greying hair and bits of flab and some wrinkles. These dont much matter since one can look “good” even with these changes.
I think of my mother who at 80 years old had a couple of boyfriends, both unsolicited, they came after her. I look like a fat version of my mom. She was too skinny anyway, haha! It wasnt good for her bones. At soon-to-be-64 I have fat and grey hairbut the stuff that REALLY matters, my mobility, are fine.
BikingLady
3-29-18, 12:57pm
Ok I struggled I struggled big time. There I said it. Hit at 53 ish. I never tired to look younger per say with younger clothing, I don't want to look silly. But my body, the parts that I was always proud of as I worked so hard all my life to "look" fit. This parts sunk, sagged and puffed.
Today I can say I am almost there to accept the body thing. Not fully, but almost. I have accepted I am not holding back the night, however.
iris lilies
3-29-18, 1:03pm
I just joined a gym nearby because our endless days of rain are not going away any time soon and I need an exercise outlet beside walking away the pounds with Leslie Sandstone. So if you want to feel fat and old, go to the gym.But I am ok with that, I tell myself that SOMEONE has to define the bottom of the curve in age and BMI. Let me be inspiration to the younguns.
as an aside I saw the modt astonishing feat of athletic proess at the gym:a young guy was jumping onto a box that was as high as his breast. Cold jump, jumping from in place, not a running jump. He did it over and over, at least ten times.
Teacher Terry
3-29-18, 1:51pm
I have not loved aging but it beats the alternative. I still get my hair colored at 63. My Aunt still does it at 93 but my Mom never did. I don't wear makeup everyday and when I do just foundation.
Iris Lily, I love your attitude about the gym. Somebody has to show them what's coming....but that boy who cold jumped! I am always amazed at what people can do. I remember trying to do the horse in PE in high school and never getting the jump part right. Have fun at the gym.
Aging is one of those categories that illustrates my belief that far, far more of life is determined by luck than most people want to believe. That spry 95-year-old still living a full and vibrant life isn't morally superior to the rest of us; she just drew a winning number in the genetic lottery. I had an aunt who lived to be 95 despite smoking two packs a day her entire adult life, and she remained fairly active up to about two years before her death. My mother, on the other hand, her younger sister, died at 82 after suffering for a decade from a degenerative neurological disease.
But the original question of how much we should rage, rage against the dying of the light is something I've been thinking about quite a bit lately. At 62, I've felt significantly older over the past two to three years, despite regular exercise and a reasonably good diet (well, at least no worse than most Americans' diets). I have much less energy and am pretty well done in by the end of a normal work day. My back aches after only a few miles of walking (I'm an avid walker). I can't really think of what to do about this other than perhaps trying to improve my diet a bit and ramp up the exercise a little more. I'm not sure if you can turn back the clock, though.
I don't have any quarrel with those who take minor measures to youthen their appearance. Last year I considered getting my teeth whitened, but in the end didn't do it. But I still might.
Baldilocks
3-29-18, 5:28pm
I'm on both sides of this one. At 51, I realize I'm old. I probably like some things old people like. (Naps, comfortable clothing) Am I surrendering to the aging process? NO. My Mother in law Just turned 80 and last year she was taking 20 mile bike rides. I will be the best looking 51 year old I can be by taking care of myself. That means eating right, ice skating, rollerblading, cycling, push ups, dips, chin ups and planking. No I will not walk off quietly into the sun set. Anyhow, I hate walking, I will ride my bike or rollerblade.
I defy to the extent needed to minimize health impacts (diet) and age discrimination in the workplace (color my hair). I like snow white hair (think Anderson Cooper). Mottled is a different story.
go to the gym.
I can't stand gyms. Nevertheless, I signed up for the Silver Sneakers program (free) at a local gym when I first retired. Everyone was much older and I felt silly lifting my 3 lb barbells to disco music. Early 50s sounds very young to me. I am much healthier at 63 than I was at 53. Lots o energy...I have read before that 40s are the least enjoyable decade.
Well, speaking for myself, I am defying. I refuse to be old and more importantly, be TREATED like I am old. Nope!
I am noticing some grey hair on the sides of my head and quite a bit in my beard. I have some deep lines on my forehead (each one is named in honor of the ex-girlfriend who put it there).
I am not tempted to dye my hair or beard (Just For Men is for disguises only).
But do you -- and this question is for the men and the ladies (and various other sexes and genders) -- defy aging or accept it?
I know I am turned off when I see women with dyed hair or fake b00bs and when I see an older guy with a dye job and a fake tan I just think: "What a d-bag."
But I am being harsh? Would it be better for my career or social life if I defied age instead of just drifting along with it?
Thoughts?
Another 51 here, I have a mixed relationship with ageing. I am so very grateful that I have good health. And I can't feel too old because my grandmother is still here at 95. She has been doing well but just fell and broke her hip this week. My parents are 75 and have a few things going on but are really in good health. I am also a grandmother, and that makes my dad feel really old! Am I old or young? Reminds me of how I lived in Oakland CA and was white, then moved to Michigan, got deep dark tans, and there they thought I was dark like a native american. Am I light or dark?
I have white hair, LOVE IT, but it doesn't make me look that old. I still get people who guess my age younger, and somehow that does matter to me even if I try to say it doesn't. I think that my lack of wrinkles helps, lots of meditating relaxes the face muscles daily.
What I do have a choice about is dressing like an old lady. I am sure there are old ladies who just really love the way they look, but I am not jumping into elastic pants anytime soon. I will wear regular jeans, an occasional Social Distortion T-shirt, and my red chuck taylor's. And also being mature, I can be child-like in many ways (which is not the same as childish and immature). I notice that the people I know who are deep meditators or Buddhist teachers have this lighthearted child quality. They laugh easily, don't take themselves too seriously, yet can be deeply serious about their practice. That is my goal.
Well, speaking for myself, I am defying. I refuse to be old and more importantly, be TREATED like I am old. Nope!
You made me think of one of my favorite musical theatre 10:00 numbers: from Pippin. The song is No Time At All. I always loved it, but I love it more even now that I'm 66. Here's a YouTube link to the audio & lyrics (no video recording was ever made of the show, unfortunately). https://www.outube.com/watch?v=MZYsX_97qdc
Oh, it's time to start livin'
Time to take a little from this world we're given
Time to take time, cause spring will turn to fall
In just no time at all....
Here is a secret I never have told
Maybe you'll understand why
I believe if I refuse to grow old
I can stay young till I die
Now, I've known the fears of sixty-six years
I've had troubles and tears by the score
But the only thing I'd trade them for
Is sixty-seven more...
iris lilies
3-30-18, 10:23am
I can't stand gyms. Nevertheless, I signed up for the Silver Sneakers program (free) at a local gym when I first retired. Everyone was much older and I felt silly lifting my 3 lb barbells to disco music. Early 50s sounds very young to me. I am much healthier at 63 than I was at 53. Lots o energy...I have read before that 40s are the least enjoyable decade.
It is weird that I actually like gyms, big noisy cavernous places where the background music pulses and the sounds of equipment blend in to make a cacophony of pure noise. Normally, that kind of environment makes me cringe. I recently left a bulldog event in a big open room at a brewery, it was too chaotic in noise. I refuse to attend trivia events anymore, too noisy not to mention boring. There are certain restaurants I have crossed off my list as being too noisy.
All of this is part of age, I suppose.
But the gym noise, it is ok because I dont have to talk to anyone and am not required to hear anything.
SteveinMN
3-30-18, 11:08am
I belonged to a gym for about three months. One of the worst experiences I ever paid for in my life. The place reeked of sweat and rubber. The locker room was a pit (and smelled even worse). It was winter, so sand and grit from outside was anywhere that rubber mats were not. I found the noise level contrary to any kind of concentration (to lift or even meditate to walking or cycling). The training assistant I drew in "training assistant bingo" was half my age (a smaller number back then) and drank directly from one of those gallon picnic jugs that came (come?) in wild colors; he insisted that I, too, would be dragging one of those wherever I went (over my dead body I would...). I liked the way I felt walking out the door each week. But hated the rest of it.
Veering back on topic, though, I think age is mostly genetic luck and one's state of mind. It's not clear yet where I fall in the genetic lottery. But I've always identified more closely with the Gen X mindset than the Boomer mindset I should have. I consider myself curious about almost everything. I still like the challenge of learning a new language or skill. So the mind still is young.
The body, however, is a different matter. I've lost about 50 pounds in the last year and have more energy than I've had in years. But I can see that my skin is not so elastic anymore -- it looks like I've lost a lot of weight (and I have more to go). I find I'm paying attention to those ads on TV alleging to "sculpt" bodies.
I've learned that, on the days I'm volunteering at the food bank or county cleanup, I can't schedule many other physical activities simply because it takes a while for me to recover from the effort. But I also notice that I'm one of the very few people my age (60 this year) who are moving boxes off of pallets or bucking appliances onto hand trucks; others who are (or who appear to be) my age have retreated to less-physically-intensive tasks.
I have an advancing wave of gray hair on my head. I gave up my beard when it was more gray/silver than black. I looked younger without it, I'll admit it. The hair is short because long just doesn't look good on me now.
On local TV, a woman who is the matriarch of a family business appears on TV ads with her kids and their spouses. Her hair is dyed a shade of red-chestnut and coiffed beyond any natural appearance. There's too much makeup (lots of bright colors). She wears a pantsuit -- in an au courant color -- but I don't think it flatters her appearance. Her kids are displaying gray hair and settling middle-aged bodies. Not her, though. I just think her appearance highlights her age and I don't think that was her intent at all.
Me, I treat myself as I treat my 15-year-old car and 45-year-old house: it's kept up inside, the cosmetics are managed well but are not au courant, and I'm clean and trimmed. It's a best-foot-forward presentation but there are some dings and scars (wabi-sabi) that show me as I am. It's how I'm most comfortable. As someone else wrote, who would I be fooling?
ApatheticNoMore
3-30-18, 12:15pm
I really don't think about it much these days. Anyway one's actual age isn't hard to find at all if someone wanted to discriminate in hiring say, because that information on the actual number, is out there and easily find able regardless of how one may look. I mean I do think about age and how it affects and limits life choices, but it's nothing I think plastic surgery or anything else could fix, because I think it's about actually being an age not about looks.
I don’t try to “defy” aging, but I try to adapt to it.
My goal is my overall quality of life, longevity, and ability to function.
To that end, I work on eating healthy, getting the right kind of exercise, changing my overly-bulky-muscle young-person build to a leaner stringier yet still strong build so my joints will be happier over time, maintaining and increasing my flexibility, and so on.
I’ll be 55 in a few months and to not consider myself “old”, I still actively engage in interior structural firefighting, wildland firefighting, technical rescue operations (including high-angle rope work), wilderness search/rescue, and marine rescue. Some of these activities would have killed me 20 years ago when I was working a desk job and relying on “youth” as my fitness plan.
frugal-one
3-30-18, 2:13pm
Wow, Catherine, just watched that video and wow. Must reconsider my hair--it looked great.
I think whatever makes you feel good .... is what you should do. I always have people tell me they love my hair. They seem surprised when I say it is dyed. People also comment about my skin??? I am told I look 15 - 20 years younger than I am. My hair style and hair color is similar to the gal in the video. AND, I always wear makeup (mostly) because I look washed out without it. I feel better when I look better.
I think there is a double standard though. Men get distinguished when they have grey, while women are perceived as old.
ETA... Recently went to the doctor and he told me I am "wearing out." WTH does that mean? I asked for the summary of my office visit and will contact my regular doc when she is back from vacation. DH has been told that he should take all kinds of meds because he is now past 65. You can guess what he told them!
I think whatever makes you feel good .... is what you should do. I always have people tell me they love my hair. They seem surprised when I say it is dyed. People also comment about my skin??? I am told I look 15 - 20 years younger than I am. My hair style and hair color is similar to the gal in the video. AND, I always wear makeup (mostly) because I look washed out without it. I feel better when I look better.
I think there is a double standard though. Men get distinguished when they have grey, while women are perceived as old.
I'm curious--do. you look like the "before" or "after"? I look like the "before." I just happen to like the crunchy granola look. My greatest joy yesterday was wearing a new pair of Carhart overalls (my very first overalls!) that my son and DIL gave me for Christmas, and with my gardening gloves in my pocket I felt like the boot camp rookie who gets to put on his fatigues for the first time. It made me feel that part, even though I'm still faking it.
I guess I'd rather be on the cover of Mother Earth News than Vogue.
Teacher Terry
3-30-18, 3:23pm
I loved the after look.
Finally got to see the video. I loved the 'after' look but my fine hair and very flat back of my head would not work with that style. I have tried a number of times with different hair stylists. She does look lovely and fresh in appearance. What a morale boost for her!
frugal-one
3-30-18, 4:59pm
I'm curious--do. you look like the "before" or "after"? I look like the "before." I just happen to like the crunchy granola look. My greatest joy yesterday was wearing a new pair of Carhart overalls (my very first overalls!) that my son and DIL gave me for Christmas, and with my gardening gloves in my pocket I felt like the boot camp rookie who gets to put on his fatigues for the first time. It made me feel that part, even though I'm still faking it.
I guess I'd rather be on the cover of Mother Earth News than Vogue.
I am the "after" version.
Seems like our culture pushes older women towards short hairstyles as most appropriate. I don't like really short hair on me. Had a pixie cut once and that was fun. I am growing my stick straight hair out yet again after a stylist decided I needed a "mature" cut. Looked like a helmet and I hated it. Aiming for a simple shoulder length bob but the growing is slow.
Ultralight
3-30-18, 10:01pm
Seems like our culture pushes older women towards short hairstyles as most appropriate.
Interesting observation. I did not know this push was occurring. Though I don't mind. I like short hairstyles on women, I actually prefer short hairstyles on women. :)
I don't like really short hair on me. Had a pixie cut once and that was fun. I am growing my stick straight hair out yet again after a stylist decided I needed a "mature" cut. Looked like a helmet and I hated it. Aiming for a simple shoulder length bob but the growing is slow.
I think you're on the right track for what you are looking for. :)
I’ll be 55 in a few months and to not consider myself “old”
Of course, we are the generation that will never get old or die. 60 is the new 40. I know I'm no longer 25 or even 35, but I don't feel ready for "senior discounts", retirement communities, polyester clothing of any kind, or those shoes with hook-and-loop straps instead of laces.
Originally Posted by pinkytoe
Seems like our culture pushes older women towards short hairstyles as most appropriate.
Interesting observation. I did not know this push was occurring.
I think that convention has been around for a loooong time. Only "girls" should have hair past the shoulders; once a woman is an adult, hair that long is passé. Not that I care for that convention, but I've seen it in any number of places over the years.
Ditto for the "unnatural color" convention: girls may have hair dyed purple or magenta or green (highlights or all of it) but a woman in her 60s with that kind of color still gets the raised eyebrow. :(
Chicken lady
3-31-18, 8:42am
I watched the video. I think that the “after” version looks younger, but I find the “before” version more attractive.
goldensmom
3-31-18, 8:46am
Accept, definitely accept probably mostly because I forget that I am aging (65). I do see things differently now than I did at 40. I don’t take things so seriously and nothing upsets me anymore - this too will pass. I know that I will not have to endure the world as it is becoming for many, many more years but as many more as I have left, I am happy and it is okay. I know God is in control and this world is just a part of my journey. Aging is good.
ETA... Recently went to the doctor and he told me I am "wearing out." WTH does that mean? I asked for the summary of my office visit and will contact my regular doc when she is back from vacation. DH has been told that he should take all kinds of meds because he is now past 65. You can guess what he told them!
In my interviews with doctors I have learned that they define anyone over 65 as elderly--one doctor told me "because that's when things start falling apart." There is no way in hell I think of myself as elderly. I'm sure it's all just perception, but elderly conjures up "frail" and I'm not there yet.
Yet, I realize breakdown and decline is inevitable. It's what makes the world go 'round.
ApatheticNoMore
3-31-18, 10:59am
I watched the video. I think that the “after” version looks younger, but I find the “before” version more attractive.
she looks younger than her age regardless of hair, very good skin condition, there's people 20 years younger than her that look a great deal older maybe not overall but in terms of skin than she does (and unlike many people it's not because fat is plumping out her skin as she's normal weight - so yea overall she looks great for her age). Used the sunscreen I guess!!! :0!
Plus she has nice hair regardless, has some of the mousy properties of grey hair but when the makeover guy plays with it you can see it's a nice head of hair. So she looks different and somewhat fresher with the new hair style and makeup but she didn't look bad either way and having to get the hair retouced every few weeks forever, well I don't know if it is worth it.
I'll accept it. I've never felt the urge to dye my now-mousy hair, but I'm flirting hard with wigs because 1) they're just another accessory, 2) they provide all the color and variety I could ever want, and 3) I have probably half the always fine, flyaway hair I once had.
I'm not a member of the Lucky Sperm Club. Both my parents had degenerative arthritis, and that's their legacy for me. But I can live with it, and be thankful it's not my mind that's going, and I'm only in pain when I move. :~) I don't take any medication aside from aspirin powders, which I've cut down from daily to occasional use.
All those oldsters who are driving ambulances, doing yoga, and climbing mountains in their nineties are the exception rather than the rule. I can attest to the doctor's claim that it's all downhill from sixty-five, but I'm doing what I can to mitigate that.
I am fortunate in that my grandparents and great grandparents on both sides tend to live into their mid to late 90s and then quietly pass.
My father, great-grandfather, and a few far-flung relatives lived into their 90s. One second cousin lived to be 99. The rest of them mostly expired in their 80s. Personally, I want to stick around to see what happens next...
Gardenarian
4-2-18, 10:02am
I cringe sometimes when I catch myself in the mirror, but 60 is not the new 40 for most of us - it's still 60. I do dye my hair, it suits my face and coloring. I've never worn makeup (beyond some tinted sunscreen.)
I have been plagued by health problems throughout my life and every year brings new ones, despite having a clean diet, lots of exercise, and meditation. I'm slim, fit, have a positive attitude, an interesting and full life, and I'm in a great deal of pain most of the time. It's extremely difficult, and I am by no means alone.
I'm not resigned to this; I never describe my pain as CHRONIC because to me that sounds like it will never go away. And it's not just one thing - it's one thing after another. Yes, it's all in the genes, it's true, but there are work-arounds and I will overcome all this crap (and in the meantime do a good job of pretending that I'm just fine.)
I'm accepting my age (going on 52). My look is now very simple, but I try to make the most of it. My skin is free of makeup, but usually smooth and clear (on a good day) Often told I look like late 30s. No more hair coloring for me, but it's always cut regularly and layered to show off the salt and pepper look that is starting to appear (I call them my sparkles). Just started doing yoga and I've been lucky to have been very thin my entire life. Aches and pains more often now.
Keeping a positive outlook on just about everything keeps you more child-like. Find humor anywhere you can. Do the things you love for as long as you can. When you can't, find something different. Working at an assisted living facility, I've seen seniors of all ages. Some still care about their appearance, and others don't. The ones that don't look older.
tennesseeborder
4-5-18, 9:52am
I got to the point that I don't think about how old I am. I used to know right away, but now I have to do the math, and I'm very good at math! In my experience, I have died and have been reborn during some critical times in my life. It really is just a number. I have some gray in my hair and I won't be doing anything about it.
HappyHiker
4-11-18, 9:00pm
Good topic. I am doing my very best to make peace with growing old(er). It's inevitable. I do admit to reading the obits in my local paper and cheering when someone's died who is quite a bit older than me...and booing when the dearly departed is younger than me.
A new book by Barbara Ehrenreich is titled: Natural Causes
One review says "Natural Causes examines the ways in which we obsess over death, our bodies, and our health. Both funny and caustic, Ehrenreich then tackles the seemingly unsolvable problem of how we might better prepare ourselves for the end—while still reveling in the lives that remain to us."
Have the book reserved at the library...sounds fascinating. She's a great writer -- loved her Nickel & Dimed examining the lives of those trying to survive on minimum wage jobs..she went undercover to live their lives and to experience, first-hand, their struggle.
I rather like Woody Allen's take on life--the progression of living should be reversed -- we should end our lives as an orgasm, rather than begin it as one...
Hard as it is....I accept physical aging. I accept that my knee injury 3y ago will continue to escalate pain and I will not recover enough for full weight bearing. Total knee June 6. By August-normal gait. September-stairs difficult but pain free. Next year? -I will hike and ski again!
I will take advantage of known and proven remedies!
I'm in my early 60's and healthy for my age. I exercise regularly, have done some yoga or just simple stretches much of my adult life, and have never been much of a carnivore. My brother on the other hand has basically been the opposite. He has a handful of common health ailments that elderly people accumulate and is on multiple medications. I understand that genetics and health are undeniably linked and that I have been lucky. However, I don't think a good exercise routine, a healthy diet, and what ever else we associate with good anti-aging habits are denial, but just make good sense and might be more important as our bodies become less resilient.
I remember, as a baby boomer, the ads like "you're in the Pepsi generation", and a common stigma that old is bad and young is good. Other cultures seem to have a different view of the elderly and more respect for their life experiences. I don't have intentions to act or dress differently only to seem younger than my age. There are probably a lot of things that are indeed all downhill after a certain age, but there is another part of being older that is not so bad. At my point in things life seems a little slower and contemplative. I accept those negative and positives that we really don't have any control over.
I don't have intentions to act or dress differently only to seem younger than my age.
This line made me think a little.
Is "younger than my age" an arbitrary construction? When I was younger, my grandparents (admittedly from "the old countr(ies)") dressed differently than younger people. Now I and my peers, grandparents ourselves though just a few years younger than my grandparents were as I remember them, wear blue jeans and Crocs and athletic shoes and yoga suits just like people in their 20s and 30s and 40s.
My grandparents listened to different music than they did when they themselves were younger. People my generation are still listening to the music they listened to growing up and the songs and movies and books of our early adult years have become part of omnipresent mass culture much more so than the entertainment of my grandparents. And people my age listen to Bruno Mars and Taylor Swift and Adele in a significant measure compared to the much younger core music-listening populace (all North American, I grant you, but...).
Certainly there are fashions that look better on younger bodies than mine. Surely there are musical trends today that seem as foreign to me as New Wave/punk was to my parents and rock and roll was to theirs. There absolutely is ageism in America, particularly in some cultures. But is acting or dressing "younger" than our age a shifting standard?
rosarugosa
4-12-18, 9:35am
Steve: I would say we wear jeans as do people in their twenties, etc. but not "just like" they do. Not all jeans are created equal. I don't wear very low-rise, super-skinny jeans with artful rips in them, and I suspect you don't either.
Jeans are a conundrum for me. My favorite Levi's are no longer made and I don't do skinny pants. I find the current trend of leggings all the time on women of all shapes, sizes and ages very strange so I guess that is an old paradigm thought.
ApatheticNoMore
4-12-18, 10:49am
I have not worn jeans SINCE my 20s. Really Very few people can look decent in them, of course if they are purely functional (gardening, hiking etc.) you may not care. I wear pants of the sort I would have no shame about wearing to the office (well except that some of them are very worn so I would).
catherine
4-12-18, 10:56am
I have not worn jeans SINCE my 20s. Really Very few people can look decent in them, of course if they are purely functional (gardening, hiking etc.) you may not care.
Me either. I'm a yoga pant wearer 100% in the house. If I go out, I sometimes will change into nicer pants (which will inevitably be black Banana Republic pants of some type). But never blue jeans.
However, for Christmas my son and DIL gave me an AWESOME pair of Carhart brown overalls. I've never worn overalls before, but I LOVE these! I don't wear them anywhere but out in the garden or volunteering in other gardens, but man, are those pants awesome!
Nice topic. Ageing is something that I can feel every day, it's happening and nothing can stop it. I usually tell my niece (she's 18 and she always worries that she would make mistake in life) that she has a long life ahead to fix all that mistake, so why doesn't she do something she wants, life goes wrong somehow anyway.
Simplemind
4-12-18, 1:51pm
I'm sure that I look older to others than I feel or look to myself. I'm 61 and stopped coloring my hair at about 51 when I knew I was gray by over half. At first I got comments about it (mostly from women) wondering why I would do such a thing. Mostly because my hair grows really fast and I was having to color every two weeks. I never got a second glance over my hair before and now I actually have both men and women come up and ask me about it. I was uncomfortable about it at first but now I go with the flow. Think longer than shoulder length kinda Emmy Lou Harris layered style, pure white. My husband looked like Ward Clever until he had his stroke and we shaved his head. As it grew in I talked him into leaving it super short because it is more in style and it really does make him look stylish.
I love the gym and go at least five days a week. It is important to me to stay in shape to attack all the yard work and the other activities we are involved with. We eat much healthier than we did before his stroke. Now that we are both retired we are more active then when we had desk jobs.
frugal-one
4-12-18, 3:06pm
I have not worn jeans SINCE my 20s. Really Very few people can look decent in them, of course if they are purely functional (gardening, hiking etc.) you may not care. I wear pants of the sort I would have no shame about wearing to the office (well except that some of them are very worn so I would).
I think many look better in jeans than in the leggings that are the rage. I don't think there are many woman that look good in leggings.
I don't think there are many woman that look good in leggings.Ahhh, but the ones who do, Oh My!
My 4 year old grandson was downtown with his dad and his grandpa and his grandpa’s male friend. A young totally in shape woman in yoga pants walked past them. My grandson looked at the woman, then turned and looked at the men with him, and smiled really big. One of the men said something about how pretty she looked. Grandson put his hands over his heart and fell to the ground to express his overwhelming agreement.
Alan - it starts young and I believe you are right. 😄
I don't wear very low-rise, super-skinny jeans with artful rips in them, and I suspect you don't either.
I don't think I've ever worn anything "super-skinny" in my life... :confused: And any rips in my jeans are completely borne of function, not art.
I do have normal blue jeans, however, and they're my default garment because wearing Dockers or sweat pants just don't make sense for what I'm doing.
rosarugosa
4-13-18, 6:03am
I live in jeans, but they are definitely a more conservative version.
Levis have lost a little quality over the years but seem to have several different cuts for different body types. I rotate through three or four pairs for routine wear and they last a couple or three years and are more comfortable at the end. I do have a couple of pairs on reserve that I call skinny jeans only because i weighed less when I bought them and think the day will come when they fit again.
frugal-one
4-13-18, 2:25pm
Ahhh, but the ones who do, Oh My!
The percentage is few.
Good topic. I am doing my very best to make peace with growing old(er). It's inevitable. I do admit to reading the obits in my local paper and cheering when someone's died who is quite a bit older than me...and booing when the dearly departed is younger than me.
A new book by Barbara Ehrenreich is titled: Natural Causes
One review says "Natural Causes examines the ways in which we obsess over death, our bodies, and our health. Both funny and caustic, Ehrenreich then tackles the seemingly unsolvable problem of how we might better prepare ourselves for the end—while still reveling in the lives that remain to us."
Have the book reserved at the library...sounds fascinating. She's a great writer -- loved her Nickel & Dimed examining the lives of those trying to survive on minimum wage jobs..she went undercover to live their lives and to experience, first-hand, their struggle.
I rather like Woody Allen's take on life--the progression of living should be reversed -- we should end our lives as an orgasm, rather than begin it as one...
I've read and admired Ehrenreich for decades.
A few days ago, I shared this essay with a family member. I agreed with most of what I read; she did not. The essay has influenced how I will approach my annual physical next week. I will ask for fewer tests. I may never have a Dexa Scan again.
https://lithub.com/barbara-ehrenreich-why-im-giving-up-on-preventative-care/
I wholeheartedly concur with Ehrenreich's viewpoint. I have an appt for a physical in a month even though I don't have any issues. Just seemed like a prudent thing to do - a baseline of sorts for going forward. But then again, I think about all the tests I will be asked to have and how the usual treatment for high blood pressure or cholesterol is always a drug. I have never had a colonoscopy and don't intend to. I imagine that some day in an enlightened society which currently does not exist, we might look back and see how torturous "healthcare" was in this time. So may of our illnesses now are due to lifestyle choices - and not that our bodies are defective.
Thanks for posting the Ehrenreich piece so I get a taste of the book before it is available at my library.
Yes, thanks for the Ehrenreich piece. She mirrors pretty much what I believe as well. In the last 5 years I've been to the doctor once--for a physical. He handed me a script for a mammogram and I ignore it. My DH gets mad at me. But I have absolutely no history of cancer in my family. If I feel a lump, I'll check it out. I remember when we made the decision to not put my 85-year old MIL through surgery to correct a gangrenous bowel (which killed her). She didn't want the surgery; but we still felt a twinge of guilt over not fighting harder for her life, and I still wonder if she'd be alive today if she had gotten sick at home in central NJ as opposed to on vacation in Vermont. But her last few years were pure struggle and depression. She lived her life. She was done, and she would often say those exact words. "Achh.. I'm done." as she struggled to get into a chair with a bad knee, or had to put a book down because her eyes were too bad to read it.
I will continue to get Dexa scans, though. I worked for years with the marketing team that "pushed" the first treatment for osteoporosis. I interviewed probably thousands of women eligible for bone density tests to uncover barriers to getting them, so that the marketers could create advertisements that would hit hot buttons. It still took me a decade to get my own BMD, but when I got it I found I had osteopenia. Sure, as Ehrenreich said, that doesn't mean I'm "sick" or "need treatment." But I DO have aunts with kyphosis (hunched back), and frankly, I'd like to do what I can to avoid that.
To date, I have not taken pharmaceuticals for osteopenia. I've seen evidence that bisphosphonates strengthen bone density, but the data proving that increased bone density=fewer fractures is just not there. So I have to work harder at nutrition (I have the book The Healthy Bones Nutrition Plan and Cookbook) and exercise (10 minutes of yoga 3 times a week has been shown by Dr. Loren Fishman to improve T-scores). But in the end, I may still wind up looking like my aunts.
I couldn't agree more with Ehrenreich. I'm now old enough to die, and I've long looked at the excessive testing and drug pushing practiced by our for-profit medical-industrial complex with a jaundiced eye, and avoided it like the plague. Thanks for posting the link; I've shared it with a like-minded friend.
I read through the article and agree with parts and understand that it's all a reasonable perspective. However, I had the impression that she was not caught up in popular or scientific health habits to avoid some sort of obsession or pre-occupation with dying. I think of it more as improving the quality of life we have left rather than some sort of longevity extension. Most of the articles I've see say aerobic exercise improves memory and mental function. Yoga keeps you flexible. Healthy eating habits decreases the odds of very inconvenient things like Type II diabetes.
I might have to think about her perspective on preventive testing, but it does seem like some of the surgeries and medications that were popular just a few years ago are now considered causing more harm than good. I sometimes think that medical science is no where near perfected. And hospital stays and surgery spin the roulette wheel for errors and infections. However, I currently enjoy being around and there are preventive care things that seems to make sense to me.
Teacher Terry
4-14-18, 5:47pm
I agree with some of what she said but not all. I have had 1 colonoscopy at 55 and undecided if I will have another before 70. After 70 your lining thins and it is easier to perforate your colon which usually results in death from sepsis. My sibs figure it is worth the risk since they have polyps every time they get one (every 5 years). I didn't have any. mammograms however are a no brainer for me. Most people that get breast cancer have no history.
I agree with some of what she said but not all. I have had 1 colonoscopy at 55 and undecided if I will have another before 70. After 70 your lining thins and it is easier to perforate your colon which usually results in death from sepsis. My sibs figure it is worth the risk since they have polyps every time they get one (every 5 years). I didn't have any. mammograms however are a no brainer for me. Most people that get breast cancer have no history.
I too had mixed feelings about this. My mom was definitely in the BE camp and stopped going to the doctor somewhere in her late 70's early 80's. she is 91. My dad goes because he has cancer, emphysema, diabetes, and COPD. He'll be 90 in May.
The problem is you don't always die the way you want, at home, in your sleep, peacefully etc. They tried to die at home just by hoping they would, and so stopped getting medical care, then fell, then the EMT's came, then they are in the system, hospital-wise, and how they are all in. Mom still resists going to the doctor so they label her defiant and incompetent. I feel at 91, they should be asking her advice--how did you get to this age without seeing a doctor in 10 years, what have you done to stay this healthy?
They so wanted to die at home, out of the clutches of the medical system. Now they cannot, and it's pretty grim for them, although they are investigating hospice, as they both qualify.
So its all well and good to say I'm going to stay away from doctors, but then when you fall and can't get up, and the EMTS come and take you to the hospital, all bets are off.
So true that once you are elderly and beyond being in control of health situations, the system will suck you in. Watching it play out with my MIL now. The poor woman seems to have an MRI every six months and for what?? Ditto blood tests, X-Rays and other diagnostic tests.
It sounds like Barbara Bush will be able to go without further tests and interventions.
It sounds like Barbara Bush will be able to go without further tests and interventions.
It might be a little easier choice at 92 than 70, depending on the circumstances.
Teacher Terry
4-16-18, 2:18pm
A friend of mine had a colonoscopy at 72 and ended up in the ER 4x's due to a bleed caused by the test.
dado potato
4-18-18, 3:18pm
I was taking a break from the snow by sampling some warm and humid music recorded in Bazil.
I found a few by Maria Bethania (born 1946). Her style is energetic. I think her clothes, hair and jewelry look great on her. She was about 70 years old when she did this performance. She has been entertaining since the age of 17. People still pay to see her!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uhNtKiYyBVg
I might have to think about her perspective on preventive testing, but it does seem like some of the surgeries and medications that were popular just a few years ago are now considered causing more harm than good. I sometimes think that medical science is no where near perfected. And hospital stays and surgery spin the roulette wheel for errors and infections. However, I currently enjoy being around and there are preventive care things that seems to make sense to me.
So true Rogar. I work on the other side of the scalpel. Every move or "mismove" we make affects the patient.
As for western medicine and aging.....I'm on my last leg with this knee injury from 3y ago. I'm having a knee replacement June 6. I cannot deny any longer that this will only get worse-Tuesday I could not bear weight after 1 mis-step. It took several hours to calm enough to gimp around. Enough is enough.
Unlike many patients, i will follow orders. I continue to be amazed at patient noncompliance-there are sound rationale for the specific instructions we give and ignoring them can result in a less-than-desired outcome. And then they are mad at us?
Pharmaceuticals are a whole other bag of worms and I steer clear as much as is rational. No cholesterol lowering drugs for me-the side effects are wicked IMO i eat whole foods and little processed crap. OTOH, hubby is on high BP meds. 120 diastolic scared the crap out of him finally while the 90s didn't. A stroke was imminent and the evidence exists. He's feeling much better. I have high hopes that through weight reduction and better food choices, it will come down significantly and we can get him off of those in a year or 2.
It's all a crap shoot and being well-informed is the only way to make a right choice for oneself.
Teacher Terry
4-19-18, 1:47pm
Catherine, I just read the book Natural Causes which was fascinating. She aid the radiation from mammograms are known to cause cancer. Now I have to research how much you would need because it might be so small that it doesn't matter. A friend of mine gets a sonogram every year instead because of this.
Gardenarian
4-26-18, 1:39am
Interesting points!
I'm scheduled to get a mammogram this week. My doctor was quite insistent on it and I figured it was harmless (though we are all paying $$ somehow for all of these tests.) I'll do some research before I go. Thanks for posting.
One thing I've discovered about myself is that most of feeling good is about having strong muscles.
A lot of the aches and pains of aging attributed to skeletal issues (back, hip, shoulder problems) have more to do with loss of muscle tone than degeneration or arthritis. Tons of studies show that the same number of pain-free people have "bad"disks, impingement syndromes, and arthritis, as people who have lots of pain. But when a person has pain and something shows up on an x-ray or MRI, the doctors feel justified in ordering surgery.
It's part of our culture that having a diagnosis validates your pain.
And it's in some way easier, simpler, to have an operation than to embark on a life-long exercise regimen to maintain strength and mobility - especially when all the authorities seem to say it's for the best.
I recently rejoined my gym, realizing I wasn't putting the same energy into my home workouts. And I'm getting more healing help from the (included) personal trainer at the gym than I did from any doctors. Yoga is not enough for me; I need weights.
I wish I was one of those very physical people who keep strong by running and chopping wood and re-roofing their own houses, but I'm just not. Maybe I will be someday!
I'm not knocking anyone who has surgery; when I smashed the bones in my foot I was awfully glad to have a surgeon screw the bones back together. It would have been even better had he recommended exercises to keep my body strong while staying off my foot for almost a year.
I do get flu vaccines - haven't had the shingles or pneumonia one yet. I wonder what Ehrenreich thinks of those.
I just started the book and already am rethinking tests. My gp is pretty sensible, not much for over testing. She was interested in the elderberry tincture for immune system strengthening Frugal one suggested to me after I raved about it! She does like mammograms, though. At 69 I've had many, had a lump removed, but since then they've all been clean. It's good to think about health care and what I'm willing to do.
I do get flu vaccines - haven't had the shingles or pneumonia one yet. I wonder what Ehrenreich thinks of those.
I'm more than halfway through the book and I couldn't tell you. She goes off on tangents, so the different chapters feel like unrelated essays. The first chapter is the strongest, and I had hoped she would go into more depth on unnecessary even harmful screenings instead of other topics. Maybe she ties it all together at the end, IDK yet.
Yppej, I'm finding the same problem with the book...skimming much of the later chapters. The first one promised a better analysis.
Undoctored, by William Davis, MD, might give you a clearer idea of which tests to get, if any. It's in my increasingly long queue of unread books.
I have not seen the BE book but I ought to check it out.
I would be concerned, though, if she is making a whole case against people going to the doctor. That seems pretty irresponsible and I would not want to do that, for obvious reasons.
frugal-one
4-28-18, 9:44am
Undoctored, by William Davis, MD, might give you a clearer idea of which tests to get, if any. It's in my increasingly long queue of unread books.
Thanks, just ordered from the library!
Teacher Terry
4-28-18, 1:57pm
I just ordered this book too. The other book did get off the subject.
Today's news that many women have been undergoing chemotherapy unnecessarily vindicates Ehrenreich.
To date, I have not taken pharmaceuticals for osteopenia. I've seen evidence that bisphosphonates strengthen bone density, but the data proving that increased bone density=fewer fractures is just not there. So I have to work harder at nutrition (I have the book The Healthy Bones Nutrition Plan and Cookbook) and exercise (10 minutes of yoga 3 times a week has been shown by Dr. Loren Fishman to improve T-scores). But in the end, I may still wind up looking like my aunts.
In a biological anthropology class, my professor said that you can mineralize your bones up the wazoo - and simply make them brittle. He said that a China plate is full of calcium - but drop it on the floor and see what happens!
Minerals are only one part of it. It’s just as important to maintain the collagen scaffolding, and this is where many people go wrong.
High-quality home made bone broths - the kind that set into a stiff jelly - are excellent. Not for the calcium leached from the bones but for the collagen and gelatin. I’m definitely ramping up my broth-making and consumption!
At age 57 I started going to yoga classes. A few years later I added a weights workout. No one will ever confuse me for anything younger than what I am (65) but I am a pretty good looking version of 65. Works for me!
I had my annual physical. The doctor didn't hassle me about not getting tests done, though she did note my file that she recommended them.
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