Here's some hope..........really truly some hope and I never thought I'd see this!

[gimmethesimplelife]

Color me amazed and humbled in a good way......California is now considering a bill that raises the standard for when police can use deadly force. Gone would be the days in California of civilians being used as target practice under a regime of turn off body cams, shoot and kill first, potentially destroy evidence,and ask questions later with "I was afraid" as a vehicle towards legitimizing murder.

When you least expect it.......hope, springing from seemingly out of nowhere! I have so much respect for the State of California at this point, I really do. Rob

[Alan]

Color me amazed and humbled in a good way......California is now considering a bill that raises the standard for when police can use deadly force. Can you give us more details? The universal standard for the use of deadly force requires a fear of imminent death or serious injury to yourself or others. In California, will the police be required to take the first bullet or knife thrust or maybe wait until the car actually hits them before they're allowed to defend themselves? I'm really curious.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Can you give us more details? The universal standard for the use of deadly force requires a fear of imminent death or serious injury to yourself or others. In California, will the police be required to take the first bullet or knife thrust or maybe wait until the car actually hits them before they're allowed to defend themselves? I'm really curious.I will post a link to the article in a sec, no problem. If nothing else, for those who don't have issues with how things stand now, it's an excursion to my side of society. Buckle up, the reading may be bumpy LOL. Rob

www.newsy.com/stories/calif-s-new-bill-would-limit-police-use-of-deadly-force/

Here's the article.....a number of different sources are posting this today. Apparently this bill would change the standard whereby deadly force can be used from "reasonable" to "necessary" - should this pass, I forsee a lot much needed litigation against the police eventually forcing true reform and an overhaul of the brutal and discriminatory US police. I still have faith that one day in my lifetime I will see the sociopaths behind a badge kicked to the curb with high dollar settlements for any and all abuses they are guilty of with no statue of limitations. I do believe citizens of my country will not be smoothed over by anything less. Rob

[Alan]

I will post a link to the article in a sec, no problem. If nothing else, for those who don't have issues with how things stand now, it's an excursion to my side of society. Buckle up, the reading may be bumpy LOL. Rob

www.newsy.com/stories/calif-s-new-bill-would-limit-police-use-of-deadly-force/ (http://www.newsy.com/stories/calif-s-new-bill-would-limit-police-use-of-deadly-force/)

Here's the article.....a number of different sources are posting this today. Apparently this bill would change the standard whereby deadly force can be used from "reasonable" to "necessary" - should this pass, I forsee a lot much needed litigation against the police eventually forcing true reform and an overhaul of the brutal and discriminatory US police. I still have faith that one day in my lifetime I will see the sociopaths behind a badge kicked to the curb with high dollar settlements for any and all abuses they are guilty of with no statue of limitations. I do believe citizens of my country will not be smoothed over by anything less. Rob
If an excursion to your side of society involves a police officer having a lesser right to defend themselves than the general public enjoys, your society is not worth protecting.

[gimmethesimplelife]

If an excursion to your side of society involves a police officer having a lesser right to defend themselves than the general public enjoys, your society is not worth protecting.Given the number of offenses committed by the police, sometimes on video, given the number of times police have been proven to have been lying during sworn testimony, and given the number of unjustifiable murders committed by the police just the past few years.....I could not disagree with you more. It's high time the police were held accountable every step of the way just like any other working adult in America is these days. It doesn't say anything flattering about America that it's taken so much injustice at the hands of American police to get to this point, but at least in California, the tide seems to be turning and people seem to be demanding that the police operate within the confines of the law. No excuses and no exceptions, with swift consequences for any LEO lawbreakers. It's about time!!!!! Rob

[ToomuchStuff]

If an excursion to your side of society involves a police officer having a lesser right to defend themselves than the general public enjoys, your society is not worth protecting.

Warren verses District of Columbia.
This could drive the police to becoming nothing more then an income generating, ticketing organization, rather then a protect and serve operation.
"So you were robbed, why are you calling us, we don't deal with that sort of thing?!"

[flowerseverywhere]

Color me amazed and humbled in a good way......California is now considering a bill that raises the standard for when police can use deadly force. Gone would be the days in California of civilians being used as target practice under a regime of turn off body cams, shoot and kill first, potentially destroy evidence,and ask questions later with "I was afraid" as a vehicle towards legitimizing murder.

When you least expect it.......hope, springing from seemingly out of nowhere! I have so much respect for the State of California at this point, I really do. Rob

Nationwide 35 police officers have been killed in the line of duty in 2018, 19 of them by gunfire
in 2017 46 of the 134 killed were by gunfire


https://www.odmp.org/search/year?year=2017

California is in the bottom quarter for state safety in regards to the violent crime rate. Tying one arm behind a police officers back surely won’t be helpful in this regard.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/crime-and-corrections/public-safety


i cannot imagine a more stressful job with all the guns floating around. I honestly think you should get a job as a police officer and see what they face day in and day out.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Nationwide 35 police officers have been killed in the line of duty in 2018, 19 of them by gunfire
in 2017 46 of the 134 killed were by gunfire


https://www.odmp.org/search/year?year=2017

California is in the bottom quarter for state safety in regards to the violent crime rate. Tying one arm behind a police officers back surely won’t be helpful in this regard.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/crime-and-corrections/public-safety


i cannot imagine a more stressful job with all the guns floating around. I honestly think you should get a job as a police officer and see what they face day in and day out.Hi Flowerseverywhere,

I can accept that (and even agree with) that the job of a police officer is stressful and does carry with it some degree of risk. I am guessing that so far we are on the same page?

Where I part ways with this shared page is that when the police kill someone who is unarmed - this to me is an instant termination offense - as in firing the United States as your citizenship/passport - and in my perfect world, we all would be offered citizenship buyouts. Yes, I'm very much serious. If a said country is going to portray itself as a beacon of freedom and liberty and opportunity, gunning down unarmed young minority men - to put it nicely, really a). does not with in with the aforementioned narrative, and b). really ruins anything good that you could say about the citizenship.

Seriously. I'm beyond disillusioned that so many Americans just don't get it. We are talking about human life here, and the power of a pension accruing government employee to end your life (murder you) for very flimsy or no real reason(s). Once again, we are talking of a pension accruing individual being allowed the power to play God over who lives and who doesn't live that said pension accruing individual comes in contact with over the course of their day. In cases where it is clear cut that murder was actually committed, it's very hard to get charges to stick - that tells you all you need to know about exactly how much human life is valued in the United States.

Given the reality that human life means so little in America, and given America's fondness for going on and on about denying this fact via words like freedom, liberty, opportunity, etc - you can't truly expect that there won't be some people who see straight through this and relentlessly hold America accountable in whatever legal ways they can. As a society you can't expect that this large elephant in the room - that the reality of America is nothing like it is said to be - can be ignored by every last citizen. Some like myself are just not capable of extending such.

And I'm starting to meander so I'll cut it short with: If society wants people with courage to call it for what it truly is to play nice - society needs to value human life a tad bit more. The lack of socialized medicine coupled with the complete and total disrespect of human life shown by society's tendency to side with the police when the police kill for flimsy or no reason at all - you can't expect all people to be down with such a society given the deep conflict in how society portrays itself vs. the actual reality of society.

Given the current realities of US citizenship, you are asking for too much. I don't know how to make this more clear and with fewer words. Want real change and anything resembling loyalty? Access to health care for all citizens and the power of the police to kill for no reason needs to be curbed. Otherwise no loyalty - to extend loyalty to such a society would be working against yourself and not for yourself.

One last thing -I really resent how America tends to look down at third world countries as if America were so smugly superior. What happened to Stephon Clark? (along with many other unarmed young minority men) -It's really no different from over the top police in a third world country that America would look down on - say Venezuela for example, where such police murders are an everyday occurrence. Rob

[flowerseverywhere]

total disregard for human life?

there are bad police out there, I’ll give you that. But if we did not have our police, for the few that are flawed, we might as well flee to one of the countries the south of the borders refugees are coming from. Mob or gang rule is frightening and dangerous.


If they did not have a pension would you think differently? Because for the life of me I cannot imagine who would take such a thankless and dangerous job without good benefits. Plus all the people standing around with cellphones just waiting for to sue them.

[LDAHL]

I'm a pension accruing individual, and it's pretty nice. However if I was required to make a split-second decision in a dangerous situation, I doubt my vested status would be uppermost in my mind.

[Teacher Terry]

I second what LDAHL said. I have a pension but if someone was shooting at me I would not be thinking about that. Also both police and firefighters have much shorter life expectancy from their jobs which is why they get their pensions so much younger then other employees. The police from all the adrenaline that goes through their bodies during times of stress which is damaging and the firefighters from smoke, etc. Also many pensions are not huge. In NV the average state employee gets 20k/year and their SS reduced by 2/3's thanks to WEP. That amount of $ is definitely not worth dying for.

[LDAHL]

I second what LDAHL said. I have a pension but if someone was shooting at me I would not be thinking about that. Also both police and firefighters have much shorter life expectancy from their jobs which is why they get their pensions so much younger then other employees. The police from all the adrenaline that goes through their bodies during times of stress which is damaging and the firefighters from smoke, etc. Also many pensions are not huge. In NV the average state employee gets 20k/year and their SS reduced by 2/3's thanks to WEP. That amount of $ is definitely not worth dying for.

In our state LEOs generally can retire between 50 and 55. And I think you’re right that people tend to overestimate the value of a pension.

[Simplemind]

Shaking my head..... shaking..... shaking...... shaking.....

[Teacher Terry]

About 6 months ago a group of college kids were in a car and stopped by a university cop. He asked them to all get out of the car which they did. One guy was very big (ex football player) and black. He was in grad school. When the cop saw how big he was he drew his gun and said if this thing goes sideways I am going to shoot this big F and then laughed. it was being recordedt as it was happening. The kids were not resisting in any way. Last I heard nothing had been done to the cop. It is this type of thing that is scary and years ago you never heard of police acting this way.

[gimmethesimplelife]

About 6 months ago a group of college kids were in a car and stopped by a university cop. He asked them to all get out of the car which they did. One guy was very big (ex football player) and black. He was in grad school. When the cop saw how big he was he drew his gun and said if this thing goes sideways I am going to shoot this big F and then laughed. it was being recordedt as it was happening. The kids were not resisting in any way. Last I heard nothing had been done to the cop. It is this type of thing that is scary and years ago you never heard of police acting this way.This right here? To me, with proof (as you say this was filmed)this is worthy of a 1.5 million dollar settlement with the US government picking up any of the expenses involved with applying to immigrate to one of the better countries - including moving all heavy furniture and any RV's and autos - completely at the expense of the US government. This should be an instant termination of the validity of your presence in the United States with the United States assuming all responsibility for expenses incurred in starting over elsewhere.

Of course such will never happen. But the fact that nothing at all happened to the cop? Once again this shows you just how non existent respect is for human life with American law enforcement and why you never speak to a cop and why whenever you see a cop coming in the distance, you begin filming to protect yourself. American police have reached the point where there truly is no alternative unless one glories in the role of victim/potential victim. Rob

[Alan]

American police have reached the point where there truly is no alternative unless one glories in the role of victim/potential victim. Rob
I believe some do.

[flowerseverywhere]

About 6 months ago a group of college kids were in a car and stopped by a university cop. He asked them to all get out of the car which they did. One guy was very big (ex football player) and black. He was in grad school. When the cop saw how big he was he drew his gun and said if this thing goes sideways I am going to shoot this big F and then laughed. it was being recordedt as it was happening. The kids were not resisting in any way. Last I heard nothing had been done to the cop. It is this type of thing that is scary and years ago you never heard of police acting this way.

where did this happen. I could find mo mention of this in googling various ways. Can you link to the video or news story.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I believe some do.Not in the 85006 - here we stand up for ourselves, our rights, and the dignity and sanctity of human life. I will grant here and now that the Phoenix Police, though crooked and far from angelic, are not as bad as other PD's - New York and Sacramento being the most recent examples. If you reread my first sentence? You can't take the moral high ground and have any trust whatsoever in the police at the same time - the numerous illegal actions of various police departments nationwide, filmed and downloaded to social media the past few years for the world to see, preclude this from happening.

I only hope and pray that this bill in California to restrict the ability of police to use deadly force passes - it's passage would embolden Americans in other states to demand Human Rights at this most basic level - a level of Human Rights easily attainable in any other developed country. And the reason once again Human Life is not worth this restriction in the ability of the police to murder at will again was? I've yet in my many years in this country had a logical answer to this question and I've asked it many times over the years.

Thankfully, more and more Americans are asking this question every day now and I do believe that change is in the air. The level of public anger and disgust and distrust of the police is off the charts these days. Crossing fingers for Human Rights - to not be murdered by the police for no reason whatsoever - to be recognized by each and every state in my lifetime. Human beings deserve no less. Rob

[Ultralight]

Not in the 85006 - here we stand up for ourselves, our rights, and the dignity and sanctity of human life.

I lived in "the 85006" for two years. There was nothing unique about it. In the theatre of Rob's imagination Phoenix is full of heroic figures taking on the forces of evil.

[Alan]

In the theatre of Rob's imagination Phoenix is full of heroic figures taking on the forces of evil.
While simultaneously relishing their status as victims of an oppressive United States, highlighting their plight and noble resistance in hopes of attracting a better offer from countries sorely in need of their presence.

[Ultralight]

While simultaneously relishing their status as victims of an oppressive United States, highlighting their plight and noble resistance in hopes of attracting a better offer from countries sorely in need of their presence.

Haha! Yeah.

But I want to note: I like Rob and I think he and I would have a hell of fun time hanging out. I am flabbergasted at some things he says.

[ToomuchStuff]

While simultaneously relishing their status as victims of an oppressive United States, highlighting their plight and noble resistance in hopes of attracting a better offer from countries sorely in need of their presence.


All while missing clues and statements as they fly by their heads, with that giant whooshing sound.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I lived in "the 85006" for two years. There was nothing unique about it. In the theatre of Rob's imagination Phoenix is full of heroic figures taking on the forces of evil.Heroic figures? No just everyday people who have had their fill, that's all. As far as unique, I never said that my zip code was unique.....it's similar to many other lower income zip codes. The only thing the differentiates us is the intense climate here. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

I was just reading online and the name of the bill in California is The Police Accountability and Community Protection Act. I'm floored but in a good way. The name of this bill sums the issue up in a very clean and easily understandable way - the time is long overdue to hold the police accountable for their action with no excuses and no exceptions - and doing such does indeed protect our communities (at least lower income ones anyway, where police statistically tend to go overboard and break the laws and murder innocent civilians (who may indeed have prior criminal records but seem to be guilty of breaking no laws often around the times they are murdered).

This bill is no shoe-in to pass. Lobbyists and Police Unions (the latter I find the very definition of evil itself) are of course fighting against this bill tooth and nail as it would mean accountability for the police and of course the police are terrified of accountability - given the givens this is no surprise. I am aware that what I am about to type will not happen in the real world, ok? I get this. That said, in my perfect world? If this bill doesn't pass - there would be a citizenship buy out offer with the opportunity to start over elsewhere. Yes, I'm serious. Human life would be spared this way from overzealous US police officers with no regard for either the law or for human life.

Let's just hope that this bill passes. It would represent an honest effort to tackle a very ugly problem - the militarization of a police force that unfortunately employs some number of officers who are unfit for their roles due to no respect for operation within the confines of the law nor for human life. I also believe that when police are caught lying under oath there should be an immediate life sentence with no chance of parole nor to ever see the light of day again - this would at least pressure officers to drop the above the law BS they love to pull. I also believe that when officers illegally tell civilians that it is illegal to film them that this should also result in a life sentence for officers (provided there is proof of this on video) - to level the playing field and hold officers accountable to those they are supposed to be serving in the first place. Consider it a price tag to be worthy of a pension given too many instances of police murdering civilians for no real reason whatsoever.

I truly wish this country really did live up to the image it attempts to portray of itself and that sometime down the road when I am long gone that there will be no reason for a future Rob to type all of this.....I can hope anyway. Perhaps this bill in California is a good start - at least it's passage would cause activists across the country to try for it's passage in each and every state. Imagine living in a country where the police are held accountable for their penchant for murdering/beating/attacking (minorities especially) for the flimsiest of reasons if for any reason at all.........like in any other developed country where the police don't behave this way (and in a non-related point, you'd have socialized medicine, too - talk about respect for human life!!!!!).

We can hope anyway........I don't know when the vote on this bill is and I'm really curious so I think I'll call Sacramento tomorrow if i can squeeze it in. Rob

PS I came back to add that SB 1421 in California also allows public access to internal records of police misconduct - offenses by committed by the police that are recorded but swept under the rug with no real consequence - something that the public truly does need access to for reasons of reaching higher settlements against the police in cases of police lawbreaking and also a fodder for political asylum claims for those going that route.

I don't know if you'all are aware of this but some police departments employ software whereby when they pull up to your address, a threat score is run on you based on numerous factors. If the public could access internal information of police misconduct, perhaps we could have a threat score for our own use when we interact with a police officer - we deserve to know if there's been any instances of unstable behavior on record for a given officer so that we can gauge as civilians how at risk we are simply for an innocent interaction with a police officer. Rob

[ToomuchStuff]

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah....
All this repetitive typing could be better spent finding/moving to the country your happy with, since you are renouncing your citizenship.
Don't forget things like the expatriation tax.>8)

[LDAHL]

I lived in "the 85006" for two years. There was nothing unique about it. In the theatre of Rob's imagination Phoenix is full of heroic figures taking on the forces of evil.

Maybe it's the aging reactionary in me, but it seems that as various other mediating factors unravel, too many of us have let the personal become political. Stripped of custom, tradition, faith, long term employment or professional or familial relationships, some of us are left with mere politics to view our world and our relationships. Strange little tribes, real or imaginary, get created to provide us with some sense of identity or belonging. Childhood trauma gets converted into a sense of political oppression and policy differences are viewed as moral differences. We signal virtue though opinion rather than demonstrate it through action.

It's sad, perhaps even tragic, but I'm not sure how we fix it.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Maybe it's the aging reactionary in me, but it seems that as various other mediating factors unravel, too many of us have let the personal become political. Stripped of custom, tradition, faith, long term employment or professional or familial relationships, some of us are left with mere politics to view our world and our relationships. Strange little tribes, real or imaginary, get created to provide us with some sense of identity or belonging. Childhood trauma gets converted into a sense of political oppression and policy differences are viewed as moral differences. We signal virtue though opinion rather than demonstrate it through action.

It's sad, perhaps even tragic, but I'm not sure how we fix it.I've thought about your post here for a bit and I think you are not without a point regarding making the personal become political. I'll give you that much.

However, that does not change the fact that I live in an area in which I am vulnerable to police misdeeds. As I've stated before, I have white skin (nothing racial intended here) - a fact that does make me much less likely to be a victim of the police, true. Which brings up two points:

A). I am unable to look the other way when police break the laws and abuse persons of other races/nationalities, and

B). As to why this is such an unending big deal to me - I have much more to lose now than I did when I first arrived at this board in 2005. It is true that I don't engage in behaviors likely to arouse police attention, nor do I appear in dark alleys at 3 AM. However - this may reduce my risk but it does not completely eradicate my risk of being a victim of the police. And there is absolutely no justifiable reason why this risk should exist in the first place - such risk is completely inexcusable and America (nor any other country for that matter, to be fair) is worth accepting this risk. Nor should I have to move at my own expense to an area with reduced risk of becoming a victim of the police.

All that said,however, I actually do see some hope in the existence of this bill in California to reduce police ability to pull the trigger for no legal reason. More and more people are giving the middle finger salute to American police and demanding rights against the sociopathery that does exist in US police departments and this standing up for human rights? Get used to it - it's only going to intensify going forward. Imagine the message sent and the level of protests that will take place if this bill indeed does not pass and the State of California says to all it's residents that a price tag of living in California is being a potential victim of sociopathic police 24/7/365.....the protests of the 60's may very well have nothing on what California may unleash if Human Rights emerge non-victorious here.

I will call the governor's office tomorrow and ask as to the date of the vote on this bill as I have not been able to find the date online and no activists in my circle know the date, either. Will be interesting to see exactly how much or how little the Human Rights of innocent citizens mean in California - this is the moment of truth/acid test that shows the truth far beyond any nice sounding words or utter BS. We'll see.........Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah....
All this repetitive typing could be better spent finding/moving to the country your happy with, since you are renouncing your citizenship.
Don't forget things like the expatriation tax.>8)As I say to anyone who sides with the police in spite of mountains of evidence of police lying under sworn testimony and of police brutality/murders for no reason whatsoever......believe in the police at your own risk. I am not responsible for any potential consequences but.....I would engage in activism should you become a victim regardless. Rob

[dmc]

What is a citizenship buyout? Where has this ever taken place?

I can certainly see where many would gladly pay you for your US citizenship. But I’m not sure that’s an option.

And like many, I have a few very good friends that are policemen, or retired on fat pensions, and find your rants way over the top. They are very fine people and did a high risk and thankless to many job.

[dmc]

As I say to anyone who sides with the police in spite of mountains of evidence of police lying under sworn testimony and of police brutality/murders for no reason whatsoever......believe in the police at your own risk. I am not responsible for any potential consequences but.....I would engage in activism should you become a victim regardless. Rob

And 99.9% of the police would come to your aid if you were in need.

[gimmethesimplelife]

And 99.9% of the police would come to your aid if you were in need.Ummmm......suppose you were to make a public speech to this effect in downtown Sacramento, California this afternoon? How well do you think such a speech would go over given the realities of the Sacramento PD? And your 99.9% statistic? Do you honestly believe many people in Sacramento would buy this at this point? Just sayin'...........but to be fair, I don't live in Sacramento. We all know where I live and we all know my zip code at this point. Here such a speech would not go over very well (though I don't believe you'd face violent consequences for making such a speech in the 85006) and nobody but nobody would buy your 99.9% statistic - matter of fact, due to what enough residents here have experienced, this one statistic would likely be the most off-putting and enraging thing you have to say.

Takeaway? We don't live in the same America realistically, even though this is legally and geographically so. In my America the take on police is very different from yours, a fact of which you can't talk away any more than I could talk away your pro-police stance. What to do? I don't have lots of answers but I will continue my activism as time allows and I hope this bill in California passes. What a human rights victory that would be!!! I'd even wear my nice outfit saved for a Trump impeachment to celebrate the passage of this bill, should it pass. Rob

[herbgeek]

As I say to anyone who sides with the police...

No one here has said that. No one is in favor of police being overzealous, shooting innocents and the like. There most definitely is an element of bad apples in policing, as there is in any profession. Some start out that way, and some become that way.

The point you are likely missing is that there are millions and millions of police/civilian interactions that we NEVER HEAR ABOUT BECAUSE NOTHING BAD HAPPENS. Most cops are not gleefully shooting people. Most cops want to do their job in the best way they know how. Most cops are honorable. Most cops are as horrified about rogue cops as the rest of the population. Yes, there are bad ones. Yes, the over militarization of the police has often not had good effects. Yes, be viligant and have your camera ready, but realize that most of the time you will be filming non events. Yes I do think that police are more hostile in some areas. And its also true that some areas have more crime and so statistically, its more likely that that person standing in the alley IS up to no good. Its true in some area the cops are shot at, and harassed more than in other areas, and I'm sure over time some cops turn more cynical.

But this constant EVERY cop is crooked, EVERY cop can't wait to shoot up an innocent person, EVERY cop is on the take/overzealous etc just isn't true, any more than EVERY waiter spits in your food when a customer is cranky and sends the food back. And the hyperbole just doesn't help your case Rob, it turns off even people who somewhat agree with your points (like me).

[Simplemind]

Thank you herbgeek. Rob has his experiences which I wouldn't argue with. However, whenever I read "the police" in his posts I get frustrated because by and large they are good people doing a thankless job. Yes there are bad ones. I even know a couple myself. Ones that go off script should be held accountable - no question. But to take the stance that there is a sinister collective mentality that makes all LE officers roam the streets looking for opportunities to impose brutality on innocents is where all credibility is lost.

[Teacher Terry]

HG: I totally agree with you.

[LDAHL]

if you spend all your energy seeking out black swans, you eventually won't notice the white ones.

[Tradd]

This Cali legislation might very well end up with injured or dead cops. And I'm sure some on the left would be just fine with that. It's very possible cops would hesitate to use force in a situation that called for legitimate UOF because they didn't want to get raked over the coals. The Second City Cop blog recounted an incident over a year ago about a female Chicago cop who hesitated to use force (shoot) in a situation that called for it because of the current climate around police shootings. This female officer got very badly beat up by the bad guy, as a result.

[gimmethesimplelife]

This Cali legislation might very well end up with injured or dead cops. And I'm sure some on the left would be just fine with that. It's very possible cops would hesitate to use force in a situation that called for legitimate UOF because they didn't want to get raked over the coals. The Second City Cop blog recounted an incident over a year ago about a female Chicago cop who hesitated to use force (shoot) in a situation that called for it because of the current climate around police shootings. This female officer got very badly beat up by the bad guy, as a result.I've thought about your post here for a stretch of days, Tradd. I did not want to just post a knee jerk reaction as your response was very "heavy" for me and I wanted to think it out.

That said, I don't like the gloom and doom of what I am about to post, but in the 85006, it's reality regardless, just like it is in numerous other lower income US zip codes. Namely - the way America is set up at the moment - take your pick. Either you side against the police and are all for unarmed individuals such as the deceased Mr. Clark, formerly of Sacramento, CA not being murdered for flimsy/no real reason(s) - or you side with the police and find the numerous deaths of unarmed mostly minority US citizens acceptable. You get to pick, this is your choice and up to you.

Given that I have witnessed police brutality against a Hispanic neighbor take place right next door to me and given that I believe in Human Rights and Human Dignity, I have no choice in the Current Form of America other than to side against the police and to side with Human Life. For me there is no question other than the following bit of wisdom I offer to chew over:

Why should it be acceptable to either one of us to live in a country in which the system is set up so that realistically you are forced into siding one way or the other? I don't come equipped with the ability to understand or forgive America for this. My people deserve better. Rob

[ToomuchStuff]

Why should it be acceptable to either one of us to live in a country in which the system is set up so that realistically you are forced into siding one way or the other?Rob

Who is holding a gun to you, forcing you to live in this country, or forcing you to side with someone?
A partial quote "I don't come equipped with the ability to understand", could/should be a full sentence there I think.

[jp1]

For the record the crowd of people that leep telling rob (paraphrasing a bulk of posts here) ‘STFU and leave already’ are really tiring. If you are so insecure about this country that your best reaponse to someone criticizing it is to repeatedly say say ‘go ahead and go already’ the problem is with you, not him.

[Teacher Terry]

I don't feel compelled to side with either side. I look at all the facts and make up my own mind. I just read that more firemen and policemen commit suicide then are killed at work because of all the horrible things they see on a daily basis which I find to be really sad too.

[gimmethesimplelife]

For the record the crowd of people that leep telling rob (paraphrasing a bulk of posts here) ‘STFU and leave already’ are really tiring. If you are so insecure about this country that your best reaponse to someone criticizing it is to repeatedly say say ‘go ahead and go already’ the problem is with you, not him.Wow. Just Thank You. I mean this very deeply, too. Just Thank You, Sir. You have given me a little hope here. Rob

[dmc]

For the record the crowd of people that leep telling rob (paraphrasing a bulk of posts here) ‘STFU and leave already’ are really tiring. If you are so insecure about this country that your best reaponse to someone criticizing it is to repeatedly say say ‘go ahead and go already’ the problem is with you, not him.

Rob is the one constantly claiming he is ready to leave and how terrible it is to live in this country. His bags are packed, we are just encouraging him to follow his dream.

[jp1]

Rob is the one constantly claiming he is ready to leave and how terrible it is to live in this country. His bags are packed, we are just encouraging him to follow his dream.

And rob is doing things, including protesting and speaking out about the problems he sees with this country to try and make it a better place. The comment that promoted my post was not in the context of a discussion about what rob should do with his life. It basically said "love it or leave it" and came across as mere bullying, as have a number of other comments directed toward him that have done nothing to advance the conversation but instead attempt to shut it down.

[jp1]

Wow. Just Thank You.

You're welcome. I just did my annual sexual harassment/hostile workplace training last week. Since my office doesn't have either, at least as far as I am aware, I figured I might as well put that training to use somewhere...

[ToomuchStuff]

Rob is the one constantly claiming he is ready to leave and how terrible it is to live in this country. His bags are packed, we are just encouraging him to follow his dream.


And rob is doing things, including protesting and speaking out about the problems he sees with this country to try and make it a better place. The comment that promoted my post was not in the context of a discussion about what rob should do with his life. It basically said "love it or leave it" and came across as mere bullying, as have a number of other comments directed toward him that have done nothing to advance the conversation but instead attempt to shut it down.

Rob can protest all he likes, and when he gets to the other country that he dreams of going to, he can protest there as well. Separate issue from complaining contentiously about how horrible it is to live here. Human rights get protested for from this country to Tiananmen square (or many, many, other countries).
I know several of us tire of the all police are bad. I've known bad ones (and witnessed a bribe), and I have known some, such as one who went from a hooker for drug money as a kid, to a LEO to help people. Things such as ride a longs and talking to the officers in his neighborhood have been offered, to try to get him to expand his mind, but he is fixated on spewing bile, and staying in his own "learned when I was eight" mindset.
He has had some experience with expansion recently, with the job change and his neighbors saying he wasn't good, because he wasn't protesting with them, when he is trying to better himself. Why should we expect that should be the only area of his life that needs to see other sides, or why should any of us, not see other sides. When another side, just keeps expounding their views, without being able to reason, not emotionally rant, it isn't a debate, but the same as talking to a kid having a temper tantrum.