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razz
4-8-18, 6:57am
Wasn't quite sure where to post this but it impacts families and communication about health or sick-care issues.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/health/second-opinion-online-medical180407-1.4608410

Quotes:

Eye twitching? Weird stomach pain? Leg cramp? Is it a symptom of a serious disease? Beware the temptation to ask Dr. Google.

A recent study suggests internet health searching could make you feel worse. It could leave you even less informed. And you're also potentially revealing private health information.

It's part of a growing body of research into the potential side-effects of consulting the internet about health issues — something that creates a risk of "cyberchondria."

University of Waterloo computer scientist Amira Ghenai decided to investigate this phenomenon for her PhD thesis in part because she was being bombarded with internet health advice from her mother.

"She gets messages from her friends, she looks online for information and then she forwards it to us," said Ghenai, who worried about the potential for harm if people chase unproven treatments. "I had a feeling this topic has a huge impact on people's lives."

To determine how people are influenced by internet health searches, Ghenai designed an experiment that presented artificial search results for a series of health questions. For example, one question asked whether cinnamon would treat diabetes. (It won't.)

The study found that people were confused by the search results, and they ended up having the wrong impression more often than if they'd just guessed based on what they already knew.

'They were convinced they had cancer'

Part of the problem is that Dr. Google's answers hinge on the words in the question.

"People use search engines but they're not aware of how they work," said Ghenai.

If the query is phrased "Does cinnamon help diabetes?" the search engine displays documents that contain the words "cinnamon," "help" and "diabetes."

Anything matching those words will show up high in the results, a mix of true and false information from various sources, but people will take away an impression based on whatever the consensus of the results seems to show. People may then make decisions "regardless of the truth," Ghenai said.

That ability to get an instant diagnosis has turned many people into cyberchondriacs.

University of Georgia communications researcher Carolyn Lauckner saw her friends doing it.

"Whether it was a headache or some strange abdominal pain, and they Googled it and they were immediately convinced they had cancer," she said.

In 2013, Lauckner designed an experiment to see if she could see this happening in real time, manipulating the results people saw in an internet health search and then monitoring their moods.

She discovered that people formed a quick impression just from scanning the search results, without even following the links
"They were more likely to feel frightened or overwhelmed based on how we manipulated the search results," said Lauckner.

"So the way that things appear on a search results page are really important — maybe even above and beyond what the actual web pages say."

As a new mother, Lauckner said she had to stop doing internet health searches.

"I was Googling every symptom she was experiencing — and of course it's always the worst thing possible could be happening to your baby, so I had to say enough is enough. It was causing too much anxiety."

'The web is not your doctor'

Not only can you end up freaking yourself out when you visit Dr. Google, you could also be unwittingly revealing personal information.

Oxford University researcher Tim Libert cautions that Dr. Google will not respect privacy.

"The web is not your doctor. People treat the web like a doctor, but the web is not taking the Hippocratic oath," said Libert, whose paper "What web browsing reveals about your health" was published in the BMJ in 2015.

"You should treat it like talking to a guy in a park with a megaphone."

He said every time you visit a web page seeking information about a health condition there is a chance that data is being collected by third parties.

"The number of companies tracking you online is really huge," he said. "Some of those companies make lists of people and sell that."

Health information can be sensitive, yet there is little regulation over how this information is collected, how long it's kept and how it's used, he wrote in the BMJ.

Canada's privacy watchdog ruled in 2014 that Google's use of sensitive health information violated Canada's privacy laws after it allowed advertisements to be directed at a consumer who had searched for devices to treat sleep apnea.

"Our office is of the view that that personal health information (i.e. online activities and viewing history of health-related websites) is sensitive," said Anne-Marie Cenaiko, spokesperson for the office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada. "Advertisers should avoid collecting sensitive personal information, such as individuals' health information, for the purpose of delivering tailored ads."...

If the query is phrased "Does cinnamon help diabetes?" the search engine displays documents that contain the words "cinnamon," "help" and "diabetes."

Anything matching those words will show up high in the results, a mix of true and false information from various sources, but people will take away an impression based on whatever the consensus of the results seems to show. People may then make decisions "regardless of the truth," Ghenai said."

It's part of a growing body of research into the potential side-effects of consulting the internet about health issues — something that creates a risk of "cyberchondria."

Yppej
4-8-18, 8:23am
If you sign up for pharmacy reward cards they also sell your personal information, including to insurers, even though the pre-existing condition they think you have could be due to a prescription you are picking up for a family member. Obamacare prevents some of this, but pre-existing conditions can still be taken into consideration when issuing things like life insurance policies.

JaneV2.0
4-8-18, 12:09pm
I'm not any kind of hypochondriac, and I find Dr. Google invaluable, personally.

Tybee
4-8-18, 1:23pm
Yes, my experience is that Googling symptoms can produce some really helpful parameters in figuring out what might be wrong, when something is obviously wrong. Two examples from my own life are diagnosing my dog's condition, diagnosing my husband's condition in the last two episodes he had--I came to same conclusion as doctors came to, and they ruled out or confirmed from a group of about three conditions, so it got us down to a much smaller diagnostic universe. So I am not at all sure why the article is so hostile to people using their heads, which is basically what doctors do, too, when they try to figure out what is going on.

You obviously don't go to the doctor and say hey, my husband has a dvt, but you know from your research that that is one of top three things it might be, and that will be the rule out, as it is the most serious.

The doctor is the one who can run the tests, etc., but let's say you do get a diagnosis--then you can get educated on treatments, surgical options, etc. So again, I don't agree about internet research turning people into hypochondriacs.

BikingLady
4-9-18, 4:04pm
Dr Google, my go to. Back in the day there was Ask a Nurse an 800 number to get questioned answered. With little ones I used this all the time really. Dr Google has saved me trips to Doctor, saved me worry too. I do not assume I have the worse, so I guess when reading I absorb the best what ifs. I think it prepares me for the trip to the doctor or the afterwards to educate myself on a topic. It has made my life far more simple than back in the day.

I use the term, Dr Google said, often;)

JaneV2.0
4-9-18, 6:06pm
Dr. Google helped me diagnose a friend's abdominal migraine (while doctors scratched their heads) and a gall bladder attack. I find her/his help top notch and blissfully free of price-gouging, drug-pushing, and prejudice. And all from the comfort of my armchair, so to speak.

razz
4-9-18, 6:17pm
Have to confess that when I needed a recipe for rice and chicken dish for my dog's diarrhea, I checked vet sites on Dr G. Saved the vet bill.

flowerseverywhere
4-10-18, 10:48am
Sometimes I look to see what info is out there. But now that there is so much compromise of personal information I wonder. Of course I am one of those people who would bore an investigator to death if they checked my histories but I am a huge believer in confidentiality and privacy. Both of which are pretty much thrown right out the window in cyber world.

Gardenarian
4-14-18, 11:48pm
I have a rare condition affecting my hearing and after seeing multiple doctors who were at a loss I diagnosed myself. I told my doctor what medicine I should be taking and provided her with multiple peer-reviewed articles to support my diagnosis and treatment. And it worked!

I have also self-diagnosed my hip problem and am undertaking self-physical therapy. I've seen improvement in 6 weeks, with no negative effects. Time will have to tell if I'm on the right path, but I have a good feeling about it.

I'm a research librarian, so I'm not relying on WebMD or Dr. Mercola to solve my health problems - but I think they probably have helpful information too.

Simplemind
4-16-18, 11:41am
After my husband's stroke we were sent home with nothing. We were not offered any type of therapy and were told that most improvement would happen within the first 6 months and then level out. We weren't willing to accept that. I basically put myself through med school with the internet after that. We ended up with our own protocol for diet and exercise. I learned there was a type of physician I had never heard of (physiatrist) and we found one to take us on with alternative therapies. I didn't have a lot of trust with doctors since his dizziness had been misdiagnosed as vertigo and an ear problem instead of mini strokes leading to the big one. He had indigestion following his stroke which was poo poo'd and he was told to take tums. After that didn't resolve I started researching that, found heart problems often follow a stroke, pushed for a second opinion and he was in surgery within 24 hours after that second opinion (a hair short of a heart attack) getting a stent. You are the expert in your own body.

JaneV2.0
4-16-18, 1:13pm
After my husband's stroke we were sent home with nothing. We were not offered any type of therapy and were told that most improvement would happen within the first 6 months and then level out. We weren't willing to accept that. I basically put myself through med school with the internet after that. We ended up with our own protocol for diet and exercise. I learned there was a type of physician I had never heard of (physiatrist) and we found one to take us on with alternative therapies. I didn't have a lot of trust with doctors since his dizziness had been misdiagnosed as vertigo and an ear problem instead of mini strokes leading to the big one. He had indigestion following his stroke which was poo poo'd and he was told to take tums. After that didn't resolve I started researching that, found heart problems often follow a stroke, pushed for a second opinion and he was in surgery within 24 hours after that second opinion (a hair short of a heart attack) getting a stent. You are the expert in your own body.

I've experienced that; my stroke-survivor relative is getting desultory care (and probably giving up their house to pay for it), and certainly no one is discussing nutrition or physiatrists. Year by year, I have less confidence that what passes for medical treatment in this country has much to offer, other than a splint or an MRI. I'll always be a supporter of Dr. Google.

catherine
4-16-18, 2:02pm
I agree with Simplemind and Jane. My mother experienced a burst brain aneurysm followed by a stroke. Unfortunately I was only 25 at the time, and her "loving" 3rd husband disappeared after these events happened, because he quickly saw there was nothing for him in the relationship. And I was clueless and exhausted after just having had my first baby.

When my uncle and I had to make the very serious decision as to whether or not to liquidate her condominium (she had some severe cognitive issues subsequent to the stroke--basically she didn't know what planet she was on), I called her neurosurgeon to get an idea of the prognosis.

Her 5-word "consultation" was "They usually stay that way." No explanation, elaboration, compassion. So we got rid of her condominium and her stuff. Long story short, thanks to the astute observations of one of her best friends, after 18 months in a nursing home at age 50, we had my mother re-evaluated and on the basis of that, the doctor who evaluated her recommended that the nursing home stop many of her meds.

It was like the Robert DeNiro/Robin Williams movie Awakeninings. She literally "woke up" after a few days... started asking me about her belongings, my kids, my siblings. While she never was able to live on her own again, my mom was definitely returned to me. If we hadn't pushed for the re-evaluation, she would have spent 20 years in la-la land because after all, her doctor--a medical professional--told me that "they usually stay that way."

Simplemind
4-16-18, 3:02pm
When we rushed my husband to the hospital he was misdiagnosed with a brain tumor instead of a stroke and didn't get any of the stroke meds that may have helped him. Several specialists told us that he would never walk again and he would have cognitive issues for life. As I said before we were sent home with nobody interested in follow up/care/therapy. We did everything on our own. We took his recovery on as a job. He not only walks but can run a short distance. We didn't think he would ever be able to ride a bike again (balance with feet off the ground) but he not only can ride his bike again, the BIGGIE is that he can ride his motorcycle again. This after barely being able to be a passenger in a car for more than 20 minutes and not being able to go more than 35MPH without significant vertigo. He can now drive himself down a freeway and we have taken several vacations and he can tolerate planes, trains and automobiles. His neurologists have been amazed. Maybe they shouldn't be so quick to write a 57 year OLD man off. They now think that the dizziness that went on for months was small strokes and his brain was rewiring during that time. All I know is that it could have been prevented and they dropped the ball. After it happened we could have been offered hope and assistance but they didn't. Thank God for the internet and a husband who never lost hope and inspired me to keep digging for answers.

JaneV2.0
4-16-18, 3:23pm
When we rushed my husband to the hospital he was misdiagnosed with a brain tumor instead of a stroke and didn't get any of the stroke meds that may have helped him. Several specialists told us that he would never walk again and he would have cognitive issues for life. As I said before we were sent home with nobody interested in follow up/care/therapy. We did everything on our own. We took his recovery on as a job. He not only walks but can run a short distance. We didn't think he would ever be able to ride a bike again (balance with feet off the ground) but he not only can ride his bike again, the BIGGIE is that he can ride his motorcycle again. This after barely being able to be a passenger in a car for more than 20 minutes and not being able to go more than 35MPH without significant vertigo. He can now drive himself down a freeway and we have taken several vacations and he can tolerate planes, trains and automobiles. His neurologists have been amazed. Maybe they shouldn't be so quick to write a 57 year OLD man off. They now think that the dizziness that went on for months was small strokes and his brain was rewiring during that time. All I know is that it could have been prevented and they dropped the ball. After it happened we could have been offered hope and assistance but they didn't. Thank God for the internet and a husband who never lost hope and inspired me to keep digging for answers.

What an inspiring story, I'll relay it to my relative, who needs all the encouragement they can get. Their diagnosis was a hemorrhagic stroke, though not a single symptom suggested that--in fact, it seemed a classic obstructive case--so I imagine they didn't get the usual TPA treatment for an ischemic episode. If I should suffer a stroke (which is entirely possible, since both sides of the family have had them), I plan to take enough aspirin to dissolve anything in its path before the EMTs arrive. The medical indifference consistently shown in this country is disproportional to the amount of money one has to spend to endure it.

JaneV2.0
4-16-18, 3:32pm
I agree with Simplemind and Jane. My mother experienced a burst brain aneurysm followed by a stroke. Unfortunately I was only 25 at the time, and her "loving" 3rd husband disappeared after these events happened, because he quickly saw there was nothing for him in the relationship. And I was clueless and exhausted after just having had my first baby.

When my uncle and I had to make the very serious decision as to whether or not to liquidate her condominium (she had some severe cognitive issues subsequent to the stroke--basically she didn't know what planet she was on), I called her neurosurgeon to get an idea of the prognosis.

Her 5-word "consultation" was "They usually stay that way." No explanation, elaboration, compassion. So we got rid of her condominium and her stuff. Long story short, thanks to the astute observations of one of her best friends, after 18 months in a nursing home at age 50, we had my mother re-evaluated and on the basis of that, the doctor who evaluated her recommended that the nursing home stop many of her meds.

It was like the Robert DeNiro/Robin Williams movie Awakeninings. She literally "woke up" after a few days... started asking me about her belongings, my kids, my siblings. While she never was able to live on her own again, my mom was definitely returned to me. If we hadn't pushed for the re-evaluation, she would have spent 20 years in la-la land because after all, her doctor--a medical professional--told me that "they usually stay that way."

I read a book once written about a man whose mother was slipping away, diagnosed with dementia. Through a lot of (pre-internet, I believe) research, and trial and error, he found that her (typical geriatric cocktail of ) drugs were the problem. Same story as yours, except she made a full recovery. Even something as simple as dehydration can cause symptoms in the elderly.

Suzanne
4-18-18, 9:47am
I also use Dr. Google, and I use my head. Google is what you make it.

Gardnr
4-21-18, 9:43am
There are 2 Dr Google camp stories. The article discusses 1 side. All your stories discuss the UP side......taken serious control of information and challenged the medical "experts" until they relented or you took it on yourself.

Sadly the other side are those with chronic condition complaints for which they take a drugstore full of meds and are never well again because nothing works. I have a friend who deals with a hypochondriac. He has every symptom he reads/hears about and goes to the doctor monthly. But he's never c/o of the symptom prior.

I'm a firm believer in having a primary care provider that practices Integrative Medicine. A broader view is a better view IMO.

CathyA
5-16-18, 9:13am
I have several "non-life-threatening" health issues that make my life difficult. Both DH and I have medical backgrounds. I look conditions up all the time. It's like having a medical library at your disposal. But you have to have a sense of the reliability and validity of what is being said on the internet. I am able to sort through the "facts" more than some people might, because of my background. It's easy to believe anything you read, but you just can't.

Anyhow.......in my most recent problem of having what I think is a hiatal hernia, which is causing me to have lots of irregular heartbeats, I came upon a new-to-me website, called "DoctorsLounge". I have to say, that the answers they give to all the various health questions are excellent. I don't know if it costs money to ask a question, but there is so much great information on there, even if you don't have a particular question.

It's just unfortunate that some of our own doctors can't help this much.

These kinds of sites are great......if you have a certain level of understanding already. Just don't believe everything you read, if you are a non-medical person. But otherwise, I think some of these more reputable sites can be a great resource.