View Full Version : restless dying
My grandmother recently fell and broke her hip (yes the one who is 95 and we just saw for her birthday). She did not recover well and went to hospice on Friday, passed away yesterday. I talked to my aunt briefly and she said it wasn't going well. I wasn't sure how much my mom would say, she tends to be more un-emotional. But I talked to her a couple times yesterday and she did tell me it wasn't going well. Apparently my grandmother was 'restless dying'. She was very agitated. My mom has sat with many people including her best friend during the process of dying but they were all quiet, more in a coma than agitated. So this was hard of course. She did say that the hospice staff said this happens when there is a lot that is unprocessed from a life that people are still working out. My mom told me that she promised to not do that to us kids, and I told her it was okay because she really wouldn't have a choice.
Still it makes me think that there is time and space for my mom, really my parents, to have to get a little more in touch with their emotional sides, maybe process the stuff of life. It is NOT something they would naturally do. However this is my area more than my siblings, the meditation and self reflection and all the wonderful (totally sarcastic here) stuff that goes with it. It will be interesting to see what comes of it.
It sounds like you will be the one to break the cycle. Breaking patterns has been one of my larger challenges in life. Kudos to you for the emotional heavy lifting you are working on.
I'm sorry for your loss, Zoe. Everyone hopes and prays for a peaceful death, yet sometimes death is not peaceful, which is very frightening for loved ones.
I'm sorry for your loss and you mother's pain.
catherine
4-22-18, 10:40am
I'm so sorry to hear this, ZG. Your grandmother's experience reminds me of when DH and I rented the upstairs in a Victorian house right after we were married. The person who owned it and who had lived in it for decades was an elderly woman who lived downstairs.
One night (it was a night that we were actually having a Christmas party!) we heard moaning from downstairs and went down to check on her and she had fallen. She was taken to the hospital, and then rehab, but she went downhill quickly. She came home and had a home health nurse staying with her, but a couple of weeks later she died. The nurse asked us if we had heard her the night she died, because she was very, very agitated, and definitely NOT "going gently into that good night." We hadn't heard her, but to your point, I have often thought about how her restless dying contrasted with that of my beloved great-aunt's, who had the presence of mind when she knew she was dying to set out her important papers where we could easily find them before calling the ambulance. She died quietly that night.
I think you are right--gosh, it's amazing how one's physical body can cry out for an authentic life, even at the end. I mentioned in another thread the book Dying to be Me by Anita Moorjani, and it's a great cautionary tale for people who have repressed desires their whole life.
My sympathies, ZG. It doesn't make it easier when our loved ones resist dying, but she is now at peace, and it sounds like you and your parents are learning a valuable lesson.
iris lilies
4-22-18, 10:46am
I dont know why you all are assuming this restlessness at the end of life is based in psychology of the individual. It could be, and likely is, a physiological reaction to bodily functions and medications, etc.
in other words, they are not getting the right drugs! Or something.
Iris, I am not assuming anything about psychological states. We had a dog that we had to euthanize once, and his passing was anything but peaceful, and I think that the vet did not give him enough sedative or the right sedative. He had a very fulfilled life.
People, are of course, assumed to be more complex. Yet many people have happy, fulfilled lives, yet are faced with unmanaged pain, etc., which makes dying non-peaceful.
I think it is physiological, not psychological.
My priest once told me to pray to St. Joseph for my father. St. Joseph is, along with being the patron saint of selling your house quickly, the patron saint of a peaceful death.
I figure it doesn't hurt to do so.
catherine
4-22-18, 11:02am
I dont know why you all are assuming this restlessness at the end of life is based in psychology of the individual. It could be, and likely is, a physiological reaction to bodily functions and medications, etc.
in other words, they are not getting the right drugs! Or something.
That's true, I guess. My mother had a good shot of morphine just after she reached under her butt and handed me her inheritance: $60 cash out of the $100 I had given her for Christmas a couple of weeks before. She had a very quiet passing.
Linking this to bae's thread on Swedish Death Cleaning, I was blessed to have been able to get through clearing out her possessions in 20 minutes. I pray my kids have it almost that easy.
ApatheticNoMore
4-22-18, 11:21am
I dont know why you all are assuming this restlessness at the end of life is based in psychology of the individual. It could be, and likely is, a physiological reaction to bodily functions and medications, etc.
+1 maybe some people's bodies are restless when dying, well their bodies too do realize they are dying and it's what the physical organism fights all it's life, to stay alive. Morphine would calm most anyone down of course. Judging people while dying or for how they die seems so uncool, I realize it's not easy to witnesses it of course, so yea it sucks to witness a painful death.
She did say that the hospice staff said this happens when there is a lot that is unprocessed from a life that people are still working out. My mom told me that she promised to not do that to us kids, and I told her it was okay because she really wouldn't have a choice.
yes she probably doens't have a choice, besides just because a hospice staff says it doesn't mean much or even if there is any truth to the theory. I mean it's not science, it's one biased (we are all biased, that's why science) hospice workers opinion as far as I can tell. So yea they likely have seen many deaths and have this belief but they are also subject to their own confirmation bias etc.
Still it makes me think that there is time and space for my mom, really my parents, to have to get a little more in touch with their emotional sides, maybe process the stuff of life. It is NOT something they would naturally do. However this is my area more than my siblings, the meditation and self reflection and all the wonderful (totally sarcastic here) stuff that goes with it. It will be interesting to see what comes of it.
yea there might be benefit to that (journaling etc.) whether or not it really has anything to do with how one will die (there is some research on it being useful but none as far as I know on how it effects one's death). I'm not sure everyone is equally emotional by nature though.
Iris, that is just what the hospice staff told my mother. It could be totally untrue and the body is just in pain or restless. We all honestly don't have any way of knowing! So maybe they caused my mom some distress she doesn't need at this time,
And some people react badly to morphine, or to the amount of morphine (or other sedative) they're given.
I would take the hospice nurse's explanation with more than a little salt.
iris lilies
4-22-18, 12:23pm
And some people react badly to morphine, or to the amount of morphine (or other sedative) they're given.
I would take the hospice nurse's explanation with more than a little salt.
That is true, morphine isnt a panecea for everyone.
iris lilies
4-22-18, 12:30pm
.... Judging people while dying or for how they die seems so uncool, I realize it's not easy to witnesses it of course, so yea it sucks to witness a painful death.
Oh sure, but people will talk about witnessing a death because it is a big deal, and it helps us understand a little of that big deal.
over on the MMM site there was a discussin of witnessing deaths, and there were a couple of stories about people who died when the bedside sitter had stepped out of the room. There are several ideas about that, but one is that the dying person just didnt want others around for this Big Passing.
over on the MMM site there was a discussin of witnessing deaths, and there were a couple of stories about people who died when the bedside sitter had stepped out of the room. There are several ideas about that, but one is that the dying person just didnt want others around for this Big Passing.
When my MIL was in hospice, on her last day of life, my wife and I sat with her throughout the night and into the afternoon. At one point she was sleeping peacefully and we left for a 30 minute trip to pick up a late lunch. She died while we were gone. I'm convinced she waited till she was alone to pass.
When my MIL was in hospice, on her last day of life, my wife and I sat with her throughout the night and into the afternoon. At one point she was sleeping peacefully and we left for a 30 minute trip to pick up a late lunch. She died while we were gone. I'm convinced she waited till she was alone to pass.
When we were pretty much on a "death watch" at my MIL's bedside, at one point, when all my kids were there, she popped right up in bed, alert and wide-awake. Then she spent about 15 minutes regaling us with her typical dry Scottish humor, complimenting each one of us in a different way, and making us laugh heartily. This was such a surprise, as she was very sick and medicated.
When we left we thought she was having a resurgence and that maybe she would actually get better. As soon as we got home we got the call from the hospital that she was actively dying at that point--everything shutting down. She died shortly after.
We believe she did that last "performance" for our benefit as a send-off totally befitting her. Then she died.
Surprisingly, this is the first I've heard of someone waiting until they're alone to pass, but it's just what happened with my dad. We sat with him day and night for five days - at first we thought he was recovering from a head bump from falling and " sick" as opposed to "dying". Doc even said there was no reason he wouldn't recover. All of us took turns, and then one evening the nurse convinced us to go home and get some rest as he was in good hands. Twenty minutes after, the hospital called to say he's passed. Hmmmm.
My ex's grandmother was like this. He even flew out from California to visit and then finally had to go home, after he left then she died.
My ex's grandmother was like this. He even flew out from California to visit and then finally had to go home, after he left then she died.
I wonder I this is similar to what they say about some animals, like dogs, who will not typically die in their own home--they go out to the woods or somewhere else to die. One of my dogs was very sick and we were going to take him to be euthanized the next day. Even though he could barely walk, he practically ran to the car when my DH asked him if he wanted to go for a ride. DH was simply trying to make him happy because the dog loved car rides, so his plan was to simply drive him around the neighborhood, but when he got back home 5-10 minutes later, the dog had died in the back seat.
frugal-one
4-22-18, 7:36pm
Wow, Catherine!! We took our dog for a ride too when he needed to be euthanized. It really was heartbreaking on how happy he was to go for a ride. He did not die in the backseat however. He had cancer and could barely walk. There was NO choice.
iris lilies
4-22-18, 8:47pm
Zoe, my condolences on the death of your grandmother. Isnt is great that you all saw her so recently? Good show.
Zoe, my condolences on the death of your grandmother. Isnt is great that you all saw her so recently? Good show.
And she lived a good, long life. I hope I can do as well!
Zoe, my condolences on the death of your grandmother. Isnt is great that you all saw her so recently? Good show.
Thank you, I won't be able to go for the funeral in 2 weeks so I am very glad we saw her when she was pretty healthy and happy. My mom agrees that it was better to see her alive than to make time for the funeral.
Teacher Terry
4-23-18, 3:02pm
My friend with Alzheier's and cancer died a slow restless death. It was horrible. They gave her morphine every hour. After about 45 minutes she would get really bad but by law they had to wait that hour. They called on Friday and said she would not live through the night. We got up there Sat AM and she did not die until Monday. She was one of the kindest people I have ever met and everyone thought the world of her. It was purely physical pain from the cancer.
iris lilies
4-23-18, 3:12pm
My friend with Alzheier's and cancer died a slow restless death. It was horrible. They gave her morphine every hour. After about 45 minutes she would get really bad but by law they had to wait that hour. They called on Friday and said she would not live through the night. We got up there Sat AM and she did not die until Monday. She was one of the kindest people I have ever met and everyone thought the world of her. It was purely physical pain from the cancer.
Is that state law you are referencing?
Teacher Terry
4-23-18, 3:14pm
I would assume so.
Somebody dropped the ball. In palliative care you can give morphine to the level of comfort. Maybe she wasn’t in a hospice type situation ...
Teacher Terry
4-23-18, 8:24pm
She was on hospice in a nursing home.
iris lilies
4-23-18, 8:32pm
Somebody dropped the ball. In palliative care you can give morphine to the level of comfort. Maybe she wasn’t in a hospice type situation ...
I was hoping you would chime in here.
ApatheticNoMore
4-23-18, 11:10pm
There are several ideas about that, but one is that the dying person just didnt want others around for this Big Passing.
about a month before my dad died when he wasn't in that bad shape and we thought he would live but was in the hospital he asked "what are you here for, standing around to watch me die?". From that I kind of got a sense he wouldn't really particularly want us doing that (but we were really just visiting him at that point). So a month later when he died I don't mind that we missed it, my mom planned to stay with him but he was doped up on massive amounts of morphine so really died in a morphine sleep anyway in all likelihood.
henrysmom
4-24-18, 12:30pm
Rare poster but long time nurse and old hospice nurse. Sadly the poor woman with cancer pain was inadequately treated. They were only giving the morphine every hour because that’s what doctor ordered. There are so many things that could have been done, increasing dosage, morphine sub q pump, fentanyl patch,etc. Nurses probably didn’t call hospice doc to change order. Also there is often a psychic pain during the dying process which can be distressing to the patient and to friends and loved ones and can be hard to treat, especially by inexperienced staff and family. Dying is a messy business but could have been handled so much better.
Rare poster but long time nurse and old hospice nurse. Sadly the poor woman with cancer pain was inadequately treated. They were only giving the morphine every hour because that’s what doctor ordered. There are so many things that could have been done, increasing dosage, morphine sub q pump, fentanyl patch,etc. Nurses probably didn’t call hospice doc to change order. Also there is often a psychic pain during the dying process which can be distressing to the patient and to friends and loved ones and can be hard to treat, especially by inexperienced staff and family. Dying is a messy business but could have been handled so much better.
Thank you for weighing in. Dying is a messy business, but thank God for you guys who are there to help us scared, grieving people navigate through it.
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