View Full Version : Anyone watching the migrant caravan?
flowerseverywhere
4-28-18, 10:25am
They are almost at the US border. There are troops on the US side, and extra border patrol agents. Not sure what is going to happen but Fox is saying most are not from Mexico. There was an interesting article on CNN this AM about a pregnant woman and her two young kids in the caravan.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/27/us/mexico-migrant-caravan-diary/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/27/us/mexico-migrant-caravan-diary/index.html)
not sure how this is going to turn out but for sure it is bringing a lot of issues to the surface that need to be dealt with. Many countries are dealing with this in various ways but all these migrants and refugees are putting a lot of strain on the destination countries and causing a huge division in the citizens, from the no new immigrants or refugees to the open border supporters.
If only someone could come up with a solution, but I think how this will be handled will make almost no one happy.
iris lilies
4-28-18, 12:07pm
They are almost at the US border. There are troops on the US side, and extra border patrol agents. Not sure what is going to happen but Fox is saying most are not from Mexico. There was an interesting article on CNN this AM about a pregnant woman and her two young kids in the caravan.
https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/27/us/mexico-migrant-caravan-diary/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2018/04/27/us/mexico-migrant-caravan-diary/index.html)
not sure how this is going to turn out but for sure it is bringing a lot of issues to the surface that need to be dealt with. Many countries are dealing with this in various ways but all these migrants and refugees are putting a lot of strain on the destination countries and causing a huge division in the citizens, from the no new immigrants or refugees to the open border supporters.
If only someone could come up with a solution, but I think how this will be handled will make almost no one happy.
Yep. No one will be happy. Even if Trump embraces all of them and sets them up in palatial homes with full support systems, someone is gonna not like that, Me for one.
flowerseverywhere
4-28-18, 12:42pm
Yep. No one will be happy. Even if Trump embraces all of them and sets them up in palatial homes with full support systems, someone is gonna not like that, Me for one.
Nor will I.
Anyone remember the wet foot dry foot policy for Cubans? When Obama ended that policy barely a whimper was heard. I wonder how much support of average citizens these migrants have? I doubt it is nearly as high as some polls claim.
Teacher Terry
4-28-18, 12:54pm
Reading that story was so sad. I think some countries such as ours are too blame for what has made many people into refugees such as in Syria. We helped create this mess along with other countries but now want nothing to do with it.
and yet the world expects the U.S. to watchdog and police a Syrian leader committing genocide on his own people with nerve gas, or the North Korean dictator who could blow the world to kingdom come. When can the U.S. get off this crazy merry-go-round?
When can the U.S. get off this crazy merry-go-round?
Rand Paul would have got us off the merry-go-round but the Republicans chose Trump as their nominee.
iris lilies
4-28-18, 7:49pm
Rand Paul would have got us off the merry-go-round but the Republicans chose Trump as their nominee.
Rand is an outlier.
flowerseverywhere
4-28-18, 10:25pm
Rand Paul would have got us off the merry-go-round but the Republicans chose Trump as their nominee.
How?
He is not an interventionist and opposes nationbuilding.
flowerseverywhere
4-29-18, 8:47am
He is not an interventionist and opposes nationbuilding.
so not a fake “America first” candidate. How will that help illegal immigration? All I could find was him saying secure our borders and mention of a wall. I am not as familiar with him so how did he propose to do that differently than what is being done now.
I believe the Trump rhetoric about American first applied largely to rich people who stood to profit instead of truly stopping our meddling abroad and preventing profiteers from benefitting from illegal workers. But I don’t see how Rand Paul has any different solution to our immigration problems. Except he never claimed Mexico would pay for a wall.
So so far this weekend, no coverage about migrant caravan trying to cross the border legally or otherwise
Paul is more cognizant of the root causes of refugee crises and America's role in them. For instance, ending the war on drugs which he supports would impact conditions in the countries the migrant caravan members come from.
Befree wrote about Middle Eastern refugees. An informative book on the US role there is Political Tribes: Group Instinct and the Fate of Nations by Amy Chua.
gimmethesimplelife
4-29-18, 6:43pm
I just read online that what is left of this caravan arrived in Tijuana and will be trying for political asylum at the San Ysidro point of entry. Ay carumba, with Trump at the helm I doubt it will happen......and Trump will not let these people enter the US for the express purpose of fleeing to Canada which has a much more liberal government at the moment and they might have better luck with a Canadian political asylum claim.
That said, I read a few days ago that the caravan was in Hermosillo, Sonora, Mexico - a few hours south of Nogales. I was so hoping the caravan would continue on to Nogales, Mexico, to try for political asylum at the Nogales Port of Entry. I would have done whatever I could have done in my power to switch with someone for a day off so that I could be part of the inevitable protest(s). I was kind of bummed that the caravan continued on to Tijuana but I wish them all the best. I just wish there was a way they could enter the US and proceed on to Blaine, Washington (north of Bellingham, WA and right on the border with Canada and not at all far from Vancouver, BC. I really do believe they'd have a better shot at political asylum in Canada. Rob
iris lilies
4-29-18, 6:57pm
Rob, why dont they stay in Mexico? Given how great it is, and all.They are IN Mexico now, seems like you would be supporting them taking advantage of all Mexico has to offer.
flowerseverywhere
4-29-18, 8:34pm
I just read online that what is left of this caravan arrived in Tijuana and will be trying for political asylum at the San Ysidro point of entry. Ay carumba, with Trump at the helm I doubt it will happen......and Trump will not let these people enter the US for the express purpose of fleeing to Canada which has a much more liberal government at the moment and they might have better luck with a Canadian political asylum claim.
That said, I read a few days ago that the caravan was in Hermosillo, Sonora, Mexico - a few hours south of Nogales. I was so hoping the caravan would continue on to Nogales, Mexico, to try for political asylum at the Nogales Port of Entry. I would have done whatever I could have done in my power to switch with someone for a day off so that I could be part of the inevitable protest(s). I was kind of bummed that the caravan continued on to Tijuana but I wish them all the best. I just wish there was a way they could enter the US and proceed on to Blaine, Washington (north of Bellingham, WA and right on the border with Canada and not at all far from Vancouver, BC. I really do believe they'd have a better shot at political asylum in Canada. Rob
trump is doing exactly what he said he would do and surrounded himself with like minded thinkers. He is getting huge support for his stance on illegal entry into the US and they are working on fast tracking deportations. There should be no one surprised. That is one of the big reasons he won. Remember the chants “Build that wall”.
We have a very low ranked school system in my state. One of my friends who is an ex teacher, decided to tutor reading. The three students she was assigned speak no English. No English is spoken in the home. Whether or not you agree with it, that makes people crazy. People work hard, pay taxes, struggle to pay for health care, buy a house, pay for groceries and save for the future. Then their low ranked school is not allowed to ask immigration status so taxpayers fund their education and special services, kids get free breakfast and lunch, and free medical care in an emergency room as they cannot be turned away if they need it. Less money and services going to legal taxpayers children. You can call it inhumane or whatever you want but that is why people liked Trump.
In the original article i linked the mother mother had two children, and was pregnant. Who is going to pay for their medical care, food, clothing, housing? Who will teach them English? How will this woman contribute to the society that will pay for them? We are not taking care of our own students in my state, we are not taking adequate care of our veterans, And that is what pushes peoples buttons. How can we take care of everyone?
I tend to wonder about that too. And why does Mexico not help them out. I think they have heard that they will be taken care of here in the US one way or the other. And without jobs or means of support there is truth in that.
I just read online that what is left of this caravan arrived in Tijuana and will be trying for political asylum at the San Ysidro point of entry. Ay carumba, with Trump at the helm I doubt it will happen......and Trump will not let these people enter the US for the express purpose of fleeing to Canada which has a much more liberal government at the moment and they might have better luck with a Canadian political asylum claim.
I don't know Rob, it looks like Canada is having problems allocating resources for migrants, to the point of asking the US to do a better job of screening folks coming through from our country. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/opinion/article-another-summer-another-border-crisis/
I guess I'm just heartless, but if we let these people in, what will that say to the many who are still considering it? I absolutely despise Trump, but I AM glad something is being done about immigration.
It's EXTREMELY sad and disconcerting that so many are fleeing a bad place.........but shit happens and I wouldn't want to ruin what most of us have, in order to accomodate all the flee-ers of the world. It's not the same country/world as it was when the first immigrants came over. I'm sure it's quite natural to want to go to a better place if your life is awful/dangerous where you are. But at some point, it begins to cause problems in the places they are fleeing to.
There seems to be such a huge difference in feeling about this. I don't quite understand those who want everyone knocking on the U.S.'s door to be let in.
Some countries have had the notion that they have to save everyone.........all of our citizens no matter what happens to them. And we feel it's our duty to save everyone everywhere. This just isn't a sustainable situation.
Why are those who want strict immigration laws considered cold/heartless/unreasonable? We have so many problems already that we can't seem to deal with. Why would we welcome more?
Like I've said before........I view things in terms of the family. What if you had a nice/reasonable family, where everyone was fed well and had opportunities for education, medicine, etc. But people in the neighborhood were unhappy where they were (no matter what the reason), and they saw how nice your home/family was, and they began coming into your house. What would happen??
Yes, I feel horrible for these people who want in. But realistically........what would it mean? Aren't there things we can do, to better the lives they had elsewhere? Everybody on earth can't live in Europe, Canada or the U.S.
And just taking in all those people at the border, just to asses their right to asylum will take time, resources, housing, food, and tie up the legal system.
It's all become so crazy. I can hardly bear it.
Teacher Terry
4-30-18, 12:39pm
If we had not repeatedly bombed Syria the people would be happy to stay home. They had jobs, houses etc before the first Bush decided to ruin their country. The US and other countries helped to create this crisis.
If we had not repeatedly bombed Syria the people would be happy to stay home. They had jobs, houses etc before the first Bush decided to ruin their country. The US and other countries helped to create this crisis.
“Happy” may be a bit of a stretch
flowerseverywhere
4-30-18, 3:02pm
If we had not repeatedly bombed Syria the people would be happy to stay home. They had jobs, houses etc before the first Bush decided to ruin their country. The US and other countries helped to create this crisis.
Another reason Trump was elected. Talking about the middle eastern countries taking care of their neighbors problems, not us doing long term intervention in other countries religious and border wars
There was an article in the local paper about some Sudanese refugees who set up a business as office cleaners so that they could steal IDs and then do nefarious things with the info. Turns out they weren't Sudanese refugees at all - but Nigerians who had somehow gotten in with false paperwork as refugees. Sounds like the whole process needs some work.
There was an article in the local paper about some Sudanese refugees who set up a business as office cleaners so that they could steal IDs and then do nefarious things with the info. Turns out they weren't Sudanese refugees at all - but Nigerians who had somehow gotten in with false paperwork as refugees. Sounds like the whole process needs some work.
Historically, new immigrants have always added to the rich tapestry of American crime.
Historically, new immigrants have always added to the rich tapestry of American crime.
You had a surprise ending there, LDAHL. You confused me for a second. haha
Teacher Terry
4-30-18, 3:51pm
The crime stats say just the opposite!thumbsup!
The crime stats say just the opposite!thumbsup!
It goes beyond stats into cultural importance.
All through our history, from the colorful Irish gangs to the more businesslike Jewish and Italian organizations of the last century, to the flamboyantly vicious Columbian, Russian and Jamaican gangs of today we have been blessed with the worlds most creative criminals
It has always bothered me that anyone (refugees or not) bases their day's activities on ripping off other people and/or gaming the system.
It goes beyond stats into cultural importance.
All through our history, from the colorful Irish gangs to the more businesslike Jewish and Italian organizations of the last century, to the flamboyantly vicious Columbian, Russian and Jamaican gangs of today we have been blessed with the worlds most creative criminals
True. Going back a little earlier it was all about killing off all the inconvenient natives. Or at least forcing them all to live on crappy land in arid parts of the country where they couldn't eeek out a living.
It has always bothered me that anyone (refugees or not) bases their day's activities on ripping off other people and/or gaming the system.
Is this a comment about the current crop of immigrants*, or just a tirade against the grifter in chief?
*and if so details please. as has been pointed out above immigrants are statistically less likely to commit crimes then native born US citizens. (which is not really a surprise since immigrants, documented or not, have a rational reason for not having interaction with law enforcement, at least assuming that they want to stay here.)
ToomuchStuff
5-1-18, 1:15am
Rob, why dont they stay in Mexico? Given how great it is, and all.They are IN Mexico now, seems like you would be supporting them taking advantage of all Mexico has to offer.
Very much wondering the same and if he actually responds to this logical argument, that I expected would come from him.
True. Going back a little earlier it was all about killing off all the inconvenient natives. Or at least forcing them all to live on crappy land in arid parts of the country where they couldn't eeek out a living.
Absolutely. When the European gangs came looking for a piece of the New World action, the Stone Age gangs already there could match them for viciousness and greed but not technology and disease resistance.
Teacher Terry
5-1-18, 2:10pm
Just read that international law requires us to take some of the migrants:~). Last night they let 8 women and children in. Even people with green cards get kicked out if they commit crimes.
True. Going back a little earlier it was all about killing off all the inconvenient natives. Or at least forcing them all to live on crappy land in arid parts of the country where they couldn't eeek out a living.
My Hopi friends think much the same of my Navajo friends...
There was a noisy “Day Without a Latino” demo outside my building yesterday. They had a problem with our Sheriff cooperating with the feds. I don’t imagine the powers that be were converted to the Mario Cuomo camp.
There was a noisy “Day Without a Latino” demo outside my building yesterday. They had a problem with our Sheriff cooperating with the feds. I don’t imagine the powers that be were converted to the Mario Cuomo camp.
There was a trump rally outside your building?
Teacher Terry
5-2-18, 12:33pm
Our Republican governor has refused to send National Guard troops to the border:~)
I'm just curious to ask those of you who want everyone in who comes to our border......where do you think this will lead, in terms of population growth, education, poverty, over-crowding, resources, etc.?
There was a trump rally outside your building?
No. He books the Expo Center when he’s in town. I don’t think he’d have much problem with deporting undocumented Democrats.
Teacher Terry
5-2-18, 1:21pm
All countries need to do their fair share of taking immigrants. Europe certainly has done this. They get jobs and support themselves. Many end up as business owners. They often do jobs Americans won't do. Their kids go to college and have better lives.
gimmethesimplelife
5-2-18, 2:05pm
Our Republican governor has refused to send National Guard troops to the border:~)Too Cool!!! Thank You for giving me a much needed dose of hope, TT. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
5-2-18, 2:09pm
All countries need to do their fair share of taking immigrants. Europe certainly has done this. They get jobs and support themselves. Many end up as business owners. They often do jobs Americans won't do. Their kids go to college and have better lives.I could not agree with you more. I can attest to this living in a very much recent immigrant/longer term immigrant neighborhood in a border state - most immigrants want very much to assimilate economically and wish to work or find some kind of self employment situation with which to be self supportive. You will find a few scattered folks in the 85006 who don't want to work and have their hand out for anything they can get but the vast majority will work icky jobs that Americans generally won't do or will find a way to become self employed or will work in the trades to make a living.
The stereotype Conservatives have of the 85006 (and many many many similar neighborhoods throughout the US, I'm not trying to make the 85006 special here) generally does not hold under the cold blooded light of close inspection. Just sayin'. Rob
it is not easy to find the right path to choose regarding refugees and migrants. Canada is struggling. Everyone is a migrant or child of a migrant in the past searching for a better life. Man originally came and migrated from Africa according to research.
Where does one draw the line? Who should do this? When should it be done? To whom should it be done? I don't have the answers and, so far, I have heard/read no one who can fully justify their choice taking into account the right to protect oneself from life-threatening danger from those migrating.
I'm just curious to ask those of you who want everyone in who comes to our border......where do you think this will lead, in terms of population growth, education, poverty, over-crowding, resources, etc.?
Not everyone who wants to come can be admitted, but given declining birthrates and an aging population we need some immigrants paying into the Social Security system if I am ever going to collect.
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