View Full Version : Dh and retirement
Chicken lady
5-15-18, 7:44am
Dh is talking about retirement. Not “soon”, in about six years.
i am a little surprised by my emotional reaction to this. I am worried. Mostly I am worried about how this is going to affect MY life.
he has recently become much more focused on golf and the guitar. He has been cooking more. All that is good.
but when he cooks, I gain weight. He is a natural night owl and I am a morning person. What happens when I am still getting up at 5 and he doesn’t have to go to work?
he was looking at the finances last night and asked me “when are you going to retire?” (Is it “retiring” if you just leave a part time job with an hourly wage and no benefits?) I said “I don’t know. Never?Next year? When it isn’t fun any more?” And he said “ok, so, six years.”
what does that mean? He’s just assuming I will quit my job and change my life to suit his? He only wants to talk about the money. I’m not worried about the money, I know he is very conservative, I am worried about pressure to make a sudden, radical, lifestyle change. I am still adjusting my life to having no kids and a job! My youngest just moved back in!
this hit me from left field. Twenty years ago I would have told you he would never retire. Last year he was still talking a ten year window. Now, suddenly he sounds like he would quit tomorrow if he could.
Ultralight
5-15-18, 7:57am
Hey, CL... I understand how you are worried and shocked. But...
I bet he is just tired. Dude has been slaving away for the man in his sensible shoes for decades -- paying for house, home, wife, multiple kids, and lots of stuff.
He's tired. Let him rest when he wants to. He'll stay among the living a lot longer. Encourage the golf. Encourage the guitar. Encourage the retirement.
That is my best advice.
Chicken lady
5-15-18, 8:35am
I do encourage the golf and the guitar. I am totally behind him not doing his job. If he came home tomorrow and said “i’ve Had it. I quit.” I’d say “ok. We are going to need to look at the money. When will you be ready to do that?”
what is worrying me is the the way he keeps saying “we”. The summer we met, we lived in the same place for 8 weeks. Short, semi-accurate version - kid rock, all summer long. Then he cut his hair, took off the hippie jewelry, put his sensible shoes back on and returned to his regularly scheduled life. I fully expected to never hear from him again. But it turns out that happiness is addictive and since I was the only part he could hang onto, he did. However, we didn’t live in the same state again until two months before we got engaged. And we didn’t live in the same town until after we got married. And he was in graduate school, and I was working, and we had kids, and then he was working...
and I am not ready to spend my days getting high by a campfire. And I am a little scared about being the only grown up in the house, because he has always been the primary grown up (those 8 weeks, I wasn’t even an adult!) and I am worried about him taking over the house and me having no space that is truly, solely mine - because I am an introvert, and I have had to struggle for that my whole life.
flowerseverywhere
5-15-18, 8:51am
Why not talk about it? For instance ask what he envisions retirement is for him, and be open about what it is for you.
For instance I like quiet and my personal space. DH loves the radio and TV on, especially to watch sports, So we compromise. I sit outside a lot in the evening to read, or in another room to sew and he watches TV. What about division of chores. It is OK to say “you are such a good cook and I love what you make, but it is so hard for me to keep my waistline under control I need to really watch it. Are their healthier low calorie versions you could try?
also, be clear what you intend to continue. I sew, have my female friends, exercise activities and volunteer activities. He has gradually found the same. We try to be partners with separate and apart time. I don’t drink or use drugs, I have one of those family histories that make it stupid for me to do so, so we avoid activities where that is prevalent. He enjoys a beer now and then but also is not fond of the calories so drinks little.
I would certainly not not be anxious about something that would happen six years from now, but is certainly is a good idea to start to lay the groundwork of what your expectations are and what his will be.
It sounds like you and I followed the same path - from parents house to husbands house at a young age. Had Kids, then career. Then finally figured out who we are as adults.
I realized the last few years that I love my time alone. I never had it. Surrounded by siblings, then by my own children in my early 20s.
I love my husband but my biggest retirement fear is that I’ll never be alone again.
It’s about 10 years until retirement. I don’t want to volunteer and take little part tine jobs for the wrong reason - to get away for a bit by my self while driving. 😄 I’ll need to convince my husband that both of us need to do some things without the other each week, so we can each have time alone.
iris lilies
5-15-18, 9:05am
Him “taking over the house? “ My impression is that your stuff is all over your house, he has little ability to control the environment he lives in. Maybe i am wrong, but you talk candidly about your stuff spreading out and his (seems to me)
constant negotiation to keep it contained in areas he can accept it.
Granted, I am seeing this from my perspective which involves a fair amount of negotiaion with my spouse about space and stuff, so yeah it is a sensitive thing for me!
When we retired, I made the decision for myself and it really was not negotiable. I was DONE. DH made a small push for me to keep on for a few years, I guess because of health insurance or money? Not sure, but neither was necessary.
I encouraged DH to retire at the same time, but it is his life and he can do what he wants. He could have done his work (he worked for himself) for a long time, he didnt mind it.
But I wanted him to retire because
1) we have alot of stuff around this house that needs fixing
2) I didnt want to be quizzed by him each day about work I was supposed to be doing as the Stay at Home partner
Fortunately he did retire when I did, actually two months prior because he needed a repair on his shoulder and we wanted to use health insurance from my work for that surgery.
in retirement the only time we run into each other is in the kitchen. We “negotiate” for kitchen space and time, having to plan long stints with the agreement of the other person. I dont spend many long stints of cooking there, but during flower show season I am at the sink and filling up kitchen counters constantly.
one new thing that has come out of our retirement is that I now make lunch for him. When I was working, he was on his own for breakfast and lunch. Now, he prepares only his own breakfast. Making lunch allows me to use up leftovers and it gives him a variety he wouldnt not ordinarily have.
Cl, I was worried about alone time, as well. We retired 17 years ago, but because we were both classroom teachers we had 31 years to get used to being together in the summer. I have my writing time every morning for about 2 hours. I have my book club, writers' group, lunch dates, sister time and he has golf. We have talked about the TV...I hate the news and Maury and have worked that out. He cooks more than he used to. We're on our own for breakfast and lunch. The rhythm of our days is pretty good. Stuff....around the house. We try to keep it down. You have several years to work out the kinks and make sure you both know what the other one wants and needs to be content. Start talking now and acting now. Good luck and try not to worry.
Chicken lady
5-15-18, 9:25am
In my case it was parents house to firetrap apartment with no functioning adults (interlude in car) to minimum wage job supporting husband apartment, (add two kids), to husband’s house.
One of the weirdest moments in my life was a few months after I was married - two of my guy friends showed up on a Friday night with an unassembled shelf as a wedding gift. They crashed in our apartment all weekend, put the shelf together (dh spent the whole weekend in the lab, barely coming home to sleep), and fully expected me to take off with them Monday morning for a road trip to what was basically going to be a week long party at another guy friend’s place.
I looked at them like they were crazy and said “I can’t do that. I have to go to work tomorrow.” And I swear, one of them looked at me like I had just asked him to disconnect my life support and the other started trying to change my mind.
i am figuring out who I am NOW without reflecting other people. And I think dh thinks he is offering me the chance to be who i used to be. But I never stopped being that person, she just grew up.
He doesn’t seem to want to talk about the non-money part. He doesn’t really respond to my questions or comments.
Me “I don’t know how long I want to work. I haven’t really thought about it.” Him “well, this is just for planning. It’s not like I couldn’t do something else to bring in a little money if I needed to.” Me “no, I mean, do you expect me to quit my job?” Him, pulling up spread sheet “so, this is if we both retire in 2024...”
iris lilies
5-15-18, 9:26am
As flowers said— the ever present sounds of electronic yakking—from radio all day and tv at night is an issue. Here, Someti,es they are both on at the same time.
dH must have the yakking on 24/7. That bugs me more than anything. I can stand radio, but when he runs both, conflicting noises, and then he decides to have a conversation with me and I am expected to talk over the electronic noise, it is just ugh.
In our Hermann house we currently have the tv in a room where we can shut the door. That will be a required feature in the renovation. I do not umderstand how all of these “open concept” houses allow for noise control.
That worries me too. We do really well on our own schedules. Even though we had 14 years of traveling 40 weekends or more a year together where we'd sit in a truck cab for 5-20 hours, work in a 10x10 or 10x15 booth for 2-5 days, then back in the truck cab for 5-20 hours and we did just fine. Now....I really like that he works 3-12. I have evenings to myself to do whatever I want and don't have to stop to make dinner for anyone. He reminded me this morning he'll be switching back to 4 10 hour days for the summer but first there are two weeks of 7-3. Dang it...that's sort of my schedule (I work 9-2). He's going to expect to do things with me every evening. How will I cope? He's 55 and will probably retire at 60 or 65.
Chicken lady
5-15-18, 9:41am
Iris,
cross post -
upstairs: bedroom - my dresser and shelf are crammed and messy - I tend to leave clothes on the bed and floor, his shelf, two dressers and nightstand are neat, clean and tidy. He has wall hooks for clothes that are “wear again”
study - I have some photos on a shared computer, otherwise, all his. He spends almost no time in there.
1st floor:
old kitchen is a disastrous mess.
old living room is neat and tidy with his choice of furniture and objects plus one chair he hates, a full curio cabinet, and more stuff on the bookshelf than he would like, BUT there is empty shelf space.
laundry room is a mess (he does not and will not have anything to do with laundry beyond creating it)
bathroom - magazine ready
small bedroom (pre -Dd) stuffed closet, two shelves of neat books and dolls
large bedroom (pre-Dd) 5 stuffed bookshelves, table with a pile on it, bed, stuffed closet a few boxes on the floor
enclosed porch (pre-Dd) piles on twin bed and floor
dining porch - neat and clean but a few trays of tomato plants
new space - sparsely furnished, no shelves, I have a tendency to leave projects and mail on the table, counter, ottoman and/or floor. Currently I have a book and mail on the couch arm, pottery all over the island, 5 square feet of floor dedicated to a silk screen project, a tote bag on the floor, and a pair of abandoned sneakers.
basement - half completely his, half completely mine (badly crowded, really messy)
currently Dd has the two 1st floor bedrooms and enclosed porch - so much of what I had there is in the basement again.
CL, this is a conversation you and DH need to start having now. There's little value in conjecturing that things will revert to the way they were 40 years ago; neither of you are the same as you were then. Both of you have the opportunity to start new chapters in your lives.
DW and I have discussed life as it is now (I'm essentially retired now) and what it might look like in a couple of years when DW retires. There will need to be some negotiation. There are activities that DW would like to increase when she has the free time and my expectation that I won't do all the household stuff then. We've had discussions since before we married about what our home would look like (far more substantial than adding or removing chalk-painted signs). We face a particular challenge in that we'll have about six years before Full Retirement Age, so we're going to have to manage our finances carefully until some other income sources kick in.
The point is that things changed for us once I quit Corporate America and became the househusband and they will change again once DW leaves work. All of this is subject to discussion, now, in a month, in six months, in 19 months. We'll figure it out. Neither one of us is likely to get all of what we want individually. But we'll agree on an outcome that meets our identified needs.
Chicken lady
5-15-18, 9:52am
Yeah, so the thing that is bothering me is that I can’t get him to talk to me. He seems to think the only important conversation is the money. For a long time he has joked that when he retires he’s going to “get stoned and play golf” but now I am trying to get some serious answers and I am wondering if he thinks those are serious answers. Because 17 y.o. me would have been like “cool. Why golf?” And he isn’t coming home to 17 y.o. me.
Six years is a long ways away until your DH retires - a lot of things and attitudes may change in that time.
I think it is a pretty common worry for married couples to fret about being together a great deal after retiring. We are still working out our differences but everything is magnified because we moved to a new locale and are basically starting over in the friends and activities department. It is 24-7 time together but I have to say because we are so compatible, it has been kind of like starting over on a new adventure. As time goes by, we both see how important it is to carve out our own space in the house and try to leave each other alone at times to pursue our own interests. Actually, now that this experiment is well under way, I think more about how I would get by without him than how he or his actions bother me.
To all those who are looking at changes such as retirement etc., there is no reason for not engaging a marriage counsellor. I wish we had done this before DH retired, I really do. I was finally free to explore some professional challenges hoping to change legislation and he wanted me to keep him company.
I regret very little in my marriage to my late DH but do regret that I didn't stand my ground that the changes ahead were significant and I wanted us both to bloom. WE had gone through so many things as a team and thought that it would simply work out. He ended up discovering that all the 'work friends' disappeared as other retirees had told him happened to them as well. I was his best friend, partner and I felt trapped between guilt for leaving him for long portions of the day vs wanting freedom to follow my interests. CL is right to feel concern.
I had a patient who sat down in the chair and started to sob. Shocked, I gently asked what was happening in her life. Her response - "this is the first time that I am by myself without my newly retired DH". He followed her everywhere, even closing the kitchen cupboard doors as soon as she opened them to find an item. This is a common story as the number of 'grey' divorces demonstrates.
Look for examples of this around you and stress to your partner that you want positive retirement for both of you and neither knows how. It is investment that is so worthwhile to get some direction facilitated so that you are both heard.
Dh is talking about retirement. Not “soon”, in about six years.
I am worried about pressure to make a sudden, radical, lifestyle change.
How on earth is it a sudden radical lifestyle change if it's not happening for six years? Sounds to me like his just looking forward to retiring after a long life of work and wishes you to be a part of it at some point. How nice!
And on the cooking---my husband has decided to take on all the cooking in his retirement, and I feel spoiled. We sit down and do a menu plan session every Sunday and he cooks what we decide upon, period. The only fattening stuff in the house is his chips and ice cream which he doesn't cook, and I don't care about. It's not like he's baking cookies every day. If he did, we'd have to talk about that.
For myself, I have worked for 50 years, and I look forward to the day in a few more where I can decide for myself what to do with my day and have some well-deserved fun. I wish that for you, too, CL.
Chicken lady
5-15-18, 2:41pm
I’m concerned that it is GOING to be a sudden radical change - because he doesn’t really want to talk about it, and the cutting the timeline by 4 yearswith no lead in.
This is probably should have been in relationships.
i am figuring out who I am NOW without reflecting other people. And I think dh thinks he is offering me the chance to be who i used to be. But I never stopped being that person, she just grew up.
I totally get this. I am so on the same page. I've always tended to go along, and as I've said, my DH has such a big personality and strong opinions, I often feel like he sucks energy out of my space. And, like you, I'm the more responsible one. And I sadly believe that his idea of fun and mine have shifted apart over the years.
As for your situation, CL, just do what you're doing for the time being. Six years is plenty of time to settle into a new reality for you and your DH. And no one says you have to be joined at the hip during retirement. Plus you have the right to retire whenever you want.
Chicken lady
5-15-18, 3:49pm
No, HE is the responsible one! I don’t want to be the responsible one! I don’t want to be the one who says “I have to go to work tomorrow.” But I still want to go to work.
iris lilies
5-15-18, 3:56pm
Well, DH just got back from Hermann. He went there
Sunday morning,
A second house, an option.
Simplemind
5-15-18, 4:09pm
I willingly retired at 55 and was looking forward to the house to myself for about 10 years. DH didn't want to retire until at least 65 and was very happy with his work. I worked afternoons for years and had been used to having the house to myself until noon and was looking forward to squeaking 6 more hours into my alone time. His stroke 6 months after I retired changed everything. I'm not sure how his retirement would have looked had he gone to 65 and we had years to talk about it and stake our claims on time increments, house portions or the remotes. As it happened we were thrown together and for the longest time I was afraid to leave him alone. He had a rough year medically and it is still surprising that he is here at all. It changed our relationship entirely.
All his work friends fell to the wayside. I pretty much became wife/best friend. He really couldn't go anywhere for almost a year due to vertigo. I am also an introvert that needs alone time to recharge.... not happenin in this scenario. We have a few programs we watch together but other than that we do not enjoy the same programing on TV or even music for that matter. He doesn't read and I'm a book worm. We are opposites in almost everything.
It has taken a huge amount of adjustment but we now have a closer partnership than when we were first married. Kids are grown and gone, it is just us and the dog. We spend a lot of time together in outside activities and our volunteer work. I don't feel guilty taking off to spend time with friends. I don't feel guilty shutting the door for hours to work on personal projects. I write the menu and he does the shopping and cooking. Now that he has had so much improvement we are back to traveling and I'm writing this from a lovely room in Charleston! It is comfortable and we constantly communicate to make sure we are staying on track for both our couple needs and our individual needs.
Teacher Terry
5-15-18, 4:21pm
When I retired I thought I would have the house to myself for 5 years. As the old saying goes:"Man plans and God laughs." He got laid off 2 weeks later and we were together all the time at home. We bought 2 big TV's and have a understanding that at 5 pm the one in the living room is mine. I like quiet whereas he likes noise. If he is home there is always a TV or radio going:(( If I want to read in the evening he has to watch TV in the bedroom. We each have our own office space. We have joint events and do things separately too. 6 years later we have worked it out. I do love having a partner to do things with but need my alone time too. I would really miss that if I were alone. If someone was following me around the house all the time I would strangle him:)) I would insist he talk about it now since he could shorten the timeline again. His retiring has nothing to do with when you retire. I go to bed earlier then DH so when I go to bed he moves to living room to watch TV. If he is intent on watching something he recorded I can also sleep in our guest room. You will work it out.
Chicken lady
5-15-18, 5:57pm
Lol, iris lilies, I feel like we just built a second house on the back of the first one!
There are several women in my office who hate their jobs - and annoy many of their coworkers with their negativity - but won't retire because they don't want to be around their husbands all day long. They have various ailments such as severe arthritis that make it hard to work. I am so glad I got divorced from the man I didn't get along with, and if I do get involved with anyone again how easygoing he is will be the #1 thing I look at.
In my last relationship we got along well before other issues ended things. I was happy being around him all the time, including 24/7 on vacations for 5 weeks each year. And I am an introvert too. This is the model I grew up with, not that my parents are joined at the hip, but they are never away from each other overnight or even for any appreciable amount of time during the day. So it has been a revelation to me to see these women at work who so dislike their husbands' company. One of the husbands you can tell is lonely and comes to hang around his wife at the office sometimes. It strikes me as sad. I wonder if there are also men who avoid retirement because they don't like their wives' company.
Chicken lady
5-15-18, 7:56pm
I love dh company, I just don’t love the idea of him running every minute of my life. When he is home, I tend to plan everything around him. Although, maybe if he was always home, I would stop doing that.
also, if he was home all day and I was not, my messes would annoy him more and he would move my stuff and mess up my systems.
Ultralight
5-15-18, 7:57pm
There are several women in my office who hate their jobs - and annoy many of their coworkers with their negativity - but won't retire because they don't want to be around their husbands all day long. They have various ailments such as severe arthritis that make it hard to work. I am so glad I got divorced from the man I didn't get along with, and if I do get involved with anyone again how easygoing he is will be the #1 thing I look at.
In my last relationship we got along well before other issues ended things. I was happy being around him all the time, including 24/7 on vacations for 5 weeks each year. And I am an introvert too. This is the model I grew up with, not that my parents are joined at the hip, but they are never away from each other overnight or even for any appreciable amount of time during the day. So it has been a revelation to me to see these women at work who so dislike their husbands' company. One of the husbands you can tell is lonely and comes to hang around his wife at the office sometimes. It strikes me as sad. I wonder if there are also men who avoid retirement because they don't like their wives' company.
I remember hearing someone say this about marriage when I was kid.
"The secret to a happy marriage is: yardwork, yardwork, yardwork."
The implication was that if you spend enough time out there working in the yard you can avoid interacting with your wife.
I am observing certain changes in the relationships of some of my colleagues. It is like they are in a certain "stage" they "have to" go through. When they were in their 20s they were in college, dating, having fun, and getting a good foothold on their careers. They got married during the 28-33 age range, popped out some kids, and started really cranking away on their career too.
Now their entire bandwidth is used up on grinding away at work and taking care of their kids. They look at their husbands like money-earning workhorses, not even as roommates.
Here are some quotes from one of my colleagues that illustrate this:
"A man without a job is dead weight."
"I told my husband that after working and taking care of the kids I simply don't have time for him."
Chicken lady - how about divide up all those bedrooms? An office for each of you and a bedroom for each of you. You make plans when you both agree to spend mtime together, like back when you were dating.
I always thought the perfect arrangement would be two 1 bedroom apartments, side by side. One for each of us.
Dating is so perfect. Privacy with planned togetherness.
Chicken lady
5-15-18, 9:20pm
My mother made a comment when she was here that she doesn’t understand these couples going on separate vacations (dil is going on a service mission to Nepal this summer, dil is going to Germany with his cousin) and I said “what do you mean? You and dad did it all the time! He went to Yellowstone, and Alaska, and Canada, and Florida, and every summer he went to Montana.” And my mom said “but I never went anywhere.” And I said “no, you stayed home and had a vacation from dad. I bet the best ones were the summers when I was at camp while he was gone and it was just you and [brother]” she was offended and insisted she missed us. I stand my ground though. I bet a few weeks with just my brother (who is her favorite, and I don’t resent it) was the only peace she got for years.
UL, i’d say humor, understanding, and good sex.
I was afraid when my hubby retired since it was a forced retirement. It took a little while but he found a volunteer job with three different groups and is out of the house almost every day in the summer and many days the rest of the year. It gives him a social outlet with others, a physical outlet which keeps him out of his recliner and makes him feel good helping others.
We have always had interests and jobs that required some travel apart and so it became ordinary. I go away several weeks every year and he had gone on a couple of Habitat builds in other states. Doing things apart gives us something to talk about. He has now said he prefers staying home which is fine but it does not mean I have to stay home.
Chicken lady - how about divide up all those bedrooms? An office for each of you and a bedroom for each of you. You make plans when you both agree to spend mtime together, like back when you were dating.
I always thought the perfect arrangement would be two 1 bedroom apartments, side by side. One for each of us.
Dating is so perfect. Privacy with planned togetherness.
I agree; separate dwellings are the only way to go. We used to talk about buying a duplex, which would have been perfect. It's good that you have several years to ease into a companionable retirement.
catherine
5-16-18, 12:00pm
I agree; separate dwellings are the only way to go. We used to talk about buying a duplex, which would have been perfect. It's good that you have several years to ease into a companionable retirement.
Would love to do that. We're up here in VT now, and for a while I was seriously wishing I could buy a little tiny house right next door for just that reason.
I'm finding that even though I'm still working full-time, because I'm working from home, DH expects me to just hang out with him. Today he said, "I'd like for you and me to go for a drive somewhere and then get something to eat." I had to tell him, "You wouldn't say that if I worked in an office downtown. You have to understand that I have to work." But he doesn't REALLY get it.
Would love to do that. We're up here in VT now, and for a while I was seriously wishing I could buy a little tiny house right next door for just that reason.
I'm finding that even though I'm still working full-time, because I'm working from home, DH expects me to just hang out with him. Today he said, "I'd like for you and me to go for a drive somewhere and then get something to eat." I had to tell him, "You wouldn't say that if I worked in an office downtown. You have to understand that I have to work." But he doesn't REALLY get it.
It's getting easier to buy tiny houses and site them, so there's still time. Enjoy your partner while you're both alive and kicking--even if you have to cut your workday short occasionally. My advice.
mschrisgo2
5-16-18, 12:58pm
CL, just a couple of observations if I might share...
First, as you said "he is just thinking about the money." I suspect it IS that simple. He was doing some calculations, needed a number to put in, as "I'm not sure" doesn't calculate easily, so he used his own theoretical "6"
Second, this reminds me a lot of your discomfort around the prospect of a new teacher in the mix. I'm hoping this can be happily resolved in a few days, too.
It's getting easier to buy tiny houses and site them, so there's still time. Enjoy your partner while you're both alive and kicking--even if you have to cut your workday short occasionally. My advice.
Good advice, Jane.
Today I'm busy, but tomorrow's looking good for that meander.
Chicken lady
5-16-18, 5:24pm
Lol mschrisgo2,
i hate change.
Maybe growing up in a small house with only one bathroom with siblings did me good. My DS is an only child and has a much greater need for space.
ApatheticNoMore
5-16-18, 8:25pm
I think it may be best not to be around someone all the time. Mind you when I am with my bf we relate pretty intensely without a lot of distractions like t.v. so. I don't mind it, I like it, but I have my own place as well :~).
Eh there's other reasons not to give up my place even if they sure as heck aren't financial right now (it's financially quite stupid) but mostly my bfs place is so noisy he says he can't sleep due to the noise. I need that sleep thing, would function ever more poorly without it. Also it's blazingly hot without a working a/c in summer top floor etc. (so even less sleep in summer, bf is often chronically sleep deprived). Falling apart, yea that too, but my place isn't super fancy or new either, just falling apart a little bit less.
Chicken lady
5-16-18, 9:00pm
I pretty much want to be around dh most of the time. I follow him around the house, I bend my schedule to his, I hate to sleep alone. If I want to be around people at all, I want to be around him. But I need to have a space I can go to where nobody moves anything. Where I don’t have to move anything. And where I can be alone. Consistent. Reliable. Free from the opinions of others.
Ultralight
5-16-18, 9:10pm
Everyone is at least a bit different But I will say that I need some alone time, I really do. Even when I was married I would do lots of stuff solo -- I'd go out into the AZ desert to shoot my bow. I would go fishing. I think people need solitude.
I've wondered for years how retirement will work for SO and I. He doesn't really have much in the way of hobbies/interests beyond watching tv and he gets bored with that. I routinely take off a week around either thanksgiving or christmas just to stay home and read, go for walks, do other little projects. He can't stand the idea of a 3 day weekend where we don't go out of town somewhere. But at least when we are home we have enough space that we don't have to be "together". That would make me crazy. For instance, he got home 1 1/2 hours ago and has been in the living room watching tv the whole time. Thankfully I can't hear the tv from here. I've been upstairs, first outside on the deck reading a book, then in my den researching random interests online and now still in the den reading, and posting, here. Weekends are spent the same way. Dinner and evenings together. The rest of the day not unless there's a specific activity we both want to go do. So hopefully retirement will also work for us similarly.
He seems to think the only important conversation is the money.
I agree with others that 6 years should be plenty of time to get this talked out, but that you should start sooner rather than later. Maybe you need to be as blunt as "you seem to think money is the only thing we need to discuss about retirement. I DISAGREE." and go from there.
SteveinMN
5-17-18, 10:14am
I think people need solitude.
I think some people need solitude, and I'll guess that people posting here tend to want/need solitude more than others. Others thrive on people contact and activity (the constant TV watchers, the ones following others around). In a committed co-located relationship, the amount of solitude and togetherness has to be negotiated.
This is an issue DW and I will need to address. We're perfectly content to sit in the living room, doing our own things but knowing that each of us is accessible for a question or comment or reaction. We do pursue "us" hobbies and activities with sets of friends that do overlap; this includes spending time with DD/DSiL/DGDs. But DW likes to -- umm -- spread out. There's not a wall in this house that does not have something hanging on it (not my preference at all). DW is a bit of a dervish when she comes home from work -- shoes here, her mail there, a glass of water the other place. Right now she is out of the house long enough for me to combat the disorder to my satisfaction. She kind of pokes at my preference for putting things in the same location (or even putting them back where they came from). It's an adaptive mechanism for me; it's not how she operates at all.
I'm not sure what kind of adaptation will be needed when she's home 7 days out of 7. It's something we'll need to discuss. I'll no doubt lose some of my househusband duties (that's fine with me) and she'll pick up on some interests which have been fallow while she's been out of the house 50-60 hours a week, working. One thing I'm sure will not need adaptation is the need for each of us to have some alone time. The negotiation will come in how we achieve it when we're both home most of the time. It might even lead to one or both of us being out of the house for a time each week. We'll find out...
catherine
5-17-18, 10:41am
I pretty much want to be around dh most of the time. I follow him around the house, I bend my schedule to his, I hate to sleep alone. If I want to be around people at all, I want to be around him. But I need to have a space I can go to where nobody moves anything. Where I don’t have to move anything. And where I can be alone. Consistent. Reliable. Free from the opinions of others.
In my NJ house, even though DH and I co-habitated 24/7, one blessing was that he has his own office and I have mine. They are at opposite ends of the house, and even though I hardly have a McMansion, it's enough space to warrant us texting each other rather than getting up and walking through 3 rooms to find each other.
DH has lost his office up here in VT because I obviously need the second bedroom for my office as the "unretired" one, and as we settle in (this is Day 5), I see that he is using his car as a man cave. He smokes, so that is a big reason for the large amount of time he's spending in the car--in fact I told him I'm going to apply to the township for another address: 41.5 [Street Name] because he's living in there. He's not complaining, but it does represent one of the adjustments in downsizing.
Teacher Terry
5-17-18, 3:14pm
I am a extrovert but still need alone time. Cahterine, as you get rid of stuff you will feel much lighter,etc. The feeling is great. However, I like a few things on coffee table, etc or the house feels too barren.
messengerhot
5-18-18, 2:05am
That worries me too. We do really well on our own schedules. Even though we had 14 years of traveling 40 weekends or more a year together where we'd sit in a truck cab for 5-20 hours, work in a 10x10 or 10x15 booth for 2-5 days, then back in the truck cab for 5-20 hours and we did just fine. Now....I really like that he works 3-12. I have evenings to myself to do whatever I want and don't have to stop to make dinner for anyone. He reminded me this morning he'll be switching back to 4 10 hour days for the summer but first there are two weeks of 7-3. Dang it...that's sort of my schedule (I work 9-2). He's going to expect to do things with me every evening. How will I cope? He's 55 and will probably retire at 60 or 65.
Perhaps, you could talk about it and compromise. Think positive. I'm sure everything will be settled and be fine in the long run.
As a woman, I have found it difficult to express my need for solitude with my husband. I’m able to do this more as time passes, but it still feels like I’m rejecting him. However he does not feel rejected. That comes from within myself.
I believe it’s the socialization of the women in my generation - especially those who were raised in religious settings where we were told that we were a “helpmeet” for our spouse. Remember those days in the glorious evangelical/charismatic revivals of the 70s and 80s?
It took away any autonomy or even awareness of our own opinions. We were merely a piece of the puzzle to bring completion to the man’s adult life.
Now that I’m not religious anymore I see it so clearly. At the time it just felt like my calling and I don’t know if I was even uncomfortable with it until I was over the age of 40.
iris lilies
5-18-18, 10:14am
Shen I got married, my biggest concern and fear was a lack of solitude. And it WAS a little rocky the first two years in negotiating alone time. dH is an introvert and also needs nis space, but we just had to figure it out.
Really, that was the thing that gave me pause for a long time in getting married. I hate feeling smothered.
As a woman, I have found it difficult to express my need for solitude with my husband. I’m able to do this more as time passes, but it still feels like I’m rejecting him. However he does not feel rejected. That comes from within myself.
I believe it’s the socialization of the women in my generation - especially those who were raised in religious settings where we were told that we were a “helpmeet” for our spouse. Remember those days in the glorious evangelical/charismatic revivals of the 70s and 80s?
It took away any autonomy or even awareness of our own opinions. We were merely a piece of the puzzle to bring completion to the man’s adult life.
Now that I’m not religious anymore I see it so clearly. At the time it just felt like my calling and I don’t know if I was even uncomfortable with it until I was over the age of 40.
I had much the same experience, Tammy, and have never really thought it through like you have, but just lived it out.
It makes me think of something I learned about back in those days---how Susannah Wesley used to find time for herself --among her many children and duties-- by sitting in a corner in a chair with her apron pulled over her head--probably to pray. Everyone knew that was her time and to leave her alone.
I think some But DW likes to -- umm -- spread out. There's not a wall in this house that does not have something hanging on it (not my preference at all). DW is a bit of a dervish when she comes home from work -- shoes here, her mail there, a glass of water the other place. Right now she is out of the house long enough for me to combat the disorder to my satisfaction. She kind of pokes at my preference for putting things in the same location (or even putting them back where they came from). It's an adaptive mechanism for me; it's not how she operates at all.
You've just described SO and me. I'm a 'place for every thing and every thing in it's place' kind of guy and SO is a 'any flat surface is a good spot to set this down' kind of guy. He's gotten a little better (when I went to his apartment the very first time when we were dating every kitchen cabinet was wide open because 'I'll need something out of it eventually'...). He doesn't do that anymore, but mostly it's been me adapting. For instance there's now a mail drawer in the credenza so I just pick up the mail from wherever he set it, put his in that drawer and deal with mine.
Chicken lady
5-19-18, 10:40am
So, THAT is the sort of thing I am afraid of as far as space issues go when dh retires. He will be home. My mail will be driving him nuts. He will remove it from the couch/table/ottoman/floor and put it in my designated mail spot (whatever that is, you can be sure that it will not be in plain sight in the middle of a living area) in spite of probably agreeing (under duress, because a “normal” person would find it reasonable) to having a designated mail area and to whatever one was chosen, I will never think to look at my designated mail area, because my brain is “out of sight, out of mind” - and I will forget to make my car/cc/share of the home loan payment, or respond to an invitation, or put an important event on the calendar....
Ultralight
5-19-18, 10:44am
So, THAT is the sort of thing I am afraid of as far as space issues go when dh retires. He will be home. My mail will be driving him nuts. He will remove it from the couch/table/ottoman/floor and put it in my designated mail spot (whatever that is, you can be sure that it will not be in plain sight in the middle of a living area) in spite of probably agreeing (under duress, because a “normal” person would find it reasonable) to having a designated mail area and to whatever one was chosen, I will never think to look at my designated mail area, because my brain is “out of sight, out of mind” - and I will forget to make my car/cc/share of the home loan payment, or respond to an invitation, or put an important event on the calendar....
Look... are you more concerned about where your mail get put or about making the new phase in your life partnership work?
Something to consider is that just because a relationship does not last a lifetime does not mean it was a waste or a failure. Sometimes a relationship runs its course. Sometimes a relationship works for a certain context but not another.
A couple might marry, have kids, work to raise the kids, and then after that they realize their empty nest selves are different. So you politely part and move on to live life the way you want, apart.
Have you considered an amicable termination of marriage upon your husband's retirement?
Chicken lady
5-19-18, 10:57am
Have you considered shooting Harlan so that you don’t have the expense of his upkeep, the concern of his care while you travel, and the inconvenience of his belongings in your space?
(I assume that question as absurd to you as yours is to me)
I’m concerned about my mail. My meals, my sleep and activity schedule, the effects on my home including auditory, visual, and organizational issues, and loss of control over shopping decisions that are important to me (those with significant social or environmental impact) - what comes to mind at the moment.
so, yeah, I should definitely give up an emotionally, intellectually, and sexually fulfilling relationship that also provides enjoyable shared activities and make a mess of my living arrangements, finances, and family dynamics to avoid having to address those other concerns....
catherine
5-19-18, 12:50pm
Have you considered an amicable termination of marriage upon your husband's retirement?
Geez, UL, hopefully you were being facetious. That's absurd! A good marriage is a constant dynamic--a moving force that requires frequent readjustment and constant negotiation. "Living happily ever after" is simply one way of saying, "Happy despite the occasional speed bumps, workarounds, emotional outbreaks and hiatuses, giving without taking, taking without giving, head-scratching anger, frustration, and fear."
CL and her dh will undoubtedly figure it out. In a long-term relationship, you travel to different "countries" over the decades, where the rules change, and then you adjust and enjoy the new view.
rosarugosa
5-19-18, 1:26pm
Well said, Catherine!
Teacher Terry
5-19-18, 2:38pm
CL; I love your response:)) I know you love your DH deeply and yes marriage is work and you have to keep evolving through lives changes. Retirement is a big change for everyone. You guys will adjust.
When I read UL's comment I didn't take it seriously for a moment. It came across as facetious to me.
My DW has stated many times that her ideal retirement living arrangement would be a his-and-hers duplex so we each could maintain décor and organization as we please. I know that we like sleeping next to each other often enough and have different financial priorities for our lives that that probably will never happen. We each put up with each other because those hills are not the ones to die for. Sometimes it comes down to a compromise which leaves neither party 100% happy -- or 100% unhappy. I've learned over the years to be more comfortable with a level of disorder in the house I would never have accepted when I was single. And she has learned that many things in this house are where they are for studied analyzed reasons and that moving them calls for providing more study and analysis of what is gained by the change. We'll figure it out. And playfully poke at each other in the process. We love and respect each other too much to sink a marriage on this kind of stuff...
When husband retired at the 1st of this year, I told him he was in charge of dinner and I did not care what it was........
I am perfectly happy with have something very light, cheese and crackers,etc.
He is not cooking......funny how when it was me in charge he was ALWAYS hungry.
When husband retired at the 1st of this year, I told him he was in charge of dinner and I did not care what it was........
I am perfectly happy with have something very light, cheese and crackers,etc.
He is not cooking......funny how when it was me in charge he was ALWAYS hungry.
:laff:That is funny Tenngal. I think I'd find myself in the same boat. My DH sure wants and enjoys a lot of variety but when he's in charge...well the man can barely boil water.
Simplemind
5-22-18, 3:47pm
I consider myself extremely fortunate. My husband does all the shopping and cooking. My part is the menu. I fill out each day of the month on the calendar and then he shops and cooks for it. He says I have the more difficult part of the bargain.
Luckily, one of our two interests is cooking so we often do that as a team. We even grocery shop together so I am betting that is unusual for most couples. Since retiring, we seem to have a pattern where meals are concerned. Like a sous chef, I gather all the ingredients, slice and dice and then he cooks everything, puts it on the table and yells "dinner. Guess who cleans up though - moi:(
iris lilies
5-23-18, 10:37am
We always go grocery shopping together, always have. But we dont cook together, it is one or the other in the kitchen.
Teacher Terry
5-23-18, 2:16pm
I wish DH cooked as I get sick of it. He shops with my list.
So, THAT is the sort of thing I am afraid of as far as space issues go when dh retires. He will be home. My mail will be driving him nuts. He will remove it from the couch/table/ottoman/floor and put it in my designated mail spot (whatever that is, you can be sure that it will not be in plain sight in the middle of a living area) in spite of probably agreeing (under duress, because a “normal” person would find it reasonable) to having a designated mail area and to whatever one was chosen, I will never think to look at my designated mail area, because my brain is “out of sight, out of mind” - and I will forget to make my car/cc/share of the home loan payment, or respond to an invitation, or put an important event on the calendar....
It had never occurred to me that SO seeing the mail might be a trigger to remember to pay the bills. And he's never suggested that so I don't know that it is in fact the case for him as it is for you. Personally when I see a stack of paper I don't think "oh yeah, gotta pay the bills." I think "accck. Another mess to stress me out." The other things I'm constantly putting away for SO are his dirty laundry and his meds. (he's been going through a serious illness for several years now so has a huge assortment of them). It would completely stress me out and depress me simultaneously if I had to live in a house strewn with dirty clothes and a kitchen counter that had 20 prescription bottles spread out over all of it. The solution I came up with to maintain my sanity may not work for everyone but it seems to work for us. Honestly if it didn't I'd be open to some sort of modification, but not to leaving the mail out to trigger reminders about bills. I'd rather go to the trouble of opening the bills, putting the due dates in a joint calendar, and then putting them away, rather than just leaving them out. But again, that's just SO and me. Every couple needs to figure out how to work together so that they can live together in peace and harmony.
Chicken lady
5-23-18, 10:15pm
Yep, everyone is different. All that stuff after “the trouble of” would still translate to me forgetting about the bills. We have already established that I will not remember to look at the joint calendar unless it is physically and prominently displayed in a living space (and surfaces I don’t “see” include the fridge door) and computer alarms can go off for hours before I ask “what is that noise?” I misplace my cell phone for days at a time - I just rarely need it.
but if you don’t disrupt my “system” I can pull exactly the piece of paper you need out of the 8” stack on the end of the kitchen counter in about 30 seconds. And it will be the thing you threw out last week because you thought you didn’t need it anymore....
..
but if you don’t disrupt my “system” I can pull exactly the piece of paper you need out of the 8” stack on the end of the kitchen counter in about 30 seconds. And it will be the thing you threw out last week because you thought you didn’t need it anymore....
My mother, who had a similar system, pulled a crucial check out of the bottom of a drawer to prove they had indeed paid off their mortgage. I have a similar system to yours--once something is out of sight, it becomes a delightful surprise to be discovered later.
Chicken lady
5-24-18, 10:16am
An example of this is what happened with our taxes this year. Dh was working on the taxes and I was entering donations. I got done and moved on to classwork. He got done, gathered up all of “his stuff” and left my mess and the “recycling for me. Several days later I finally sorted through the mess on the ottoman, recycled the recycling, and put all the tax documents in a folder. Which I then carried downstairs and balanced on the edge of a bookshelf because I couldn’t get to the file drawer.
when dh got ready to actually turn in the taxes weeks later, he was angry because he could not find the special code number he needed. He was sure I took it, and I was sure that if I had picked it up I would have put it in one if the two locations I always put his papers. Finally I asked “ when was the last time you saw it?” Assuming he would say something like “yesterday.” But he said “I don’t know, it’s been weeks!” At which point I said “like, when we were working together in here?” “Probably” and then my brain went through it’s pinball routine and 30 seconds later he had his paper “I did take it. You put it in the recycling. It looked important.”
Finally I asked “ when was the last time you saw it?” Assuming he would say something like “yesterday.” But he said “I don’t know, it’s been weeks!” At which point I said “like, when we were working together in here?” “Probably” and then my brain went through it’s pinball routine and 30 seconds later he had his paper “I did take it. You put it in the recycling. It looked important.”
Haha! I have the same pinball routine! Great term for it! DH thinks I'm a wizard at finding things, but it's just a mental tracing skill.
iris lilies
6-1-18, 9:52am
You people, you pinball wizard people, would make me insane.
I need up front organization, a place for everything well before the things even enter my world.
Just yesterday I put a dog brush into the bin of things that go to our
Hermann house, and my mind was spinning about where that dog brush would reside in
Hermann.
Chicken lady
6-1-18, 10:12am
You people who just randomly pick the ball up and put it back in the tray make me crazy. :)
where is the crate? Where is the dog? Will the dog not need to be brushed again before you go? Can I see the crate? Can I see the brush in the crate? Why, when I come back to get the thing is it not where I left it?
Teacher Terry
6-1-18, 11:00am
IL: I am with you on this. A place for everything and everything in its place. My DH not so much. I am sure when he dies that he has at least triplicates of his tools but just can’t find them :~)
iris lilies
6-1-18, 11:10am
You people who just randomly pick the ball up and put it back in the tray make me crazy. :)
where is the crate? Where is the dog? Will the dog not need to be brushed again before you go? Can I see the crate? Can I see the brush in the crate? Why, when I come back to get the thing is it not where I left it?
Well, since you asked, here is my treatise on dog brush and etc:
This was an extra brush that lived in my top dresser drawer for more than a decade. I didnt want to toss it, but
I didnt really like it there yet it was upstairs in case I had to brush an animal while on our second floor. It was not a model of organization to keep it there. This top dresser drawer is basically a junk drawer that houses dog costumes, a few books, a flashlight, random jewelry pieces that really need to be tossed.
now, my kitchen pantry is a model of organization with all other dog supplies neatly arranged, including other and better hair removal devices.
The dogs themseleves are not subjected to organizational rules, they may lounge about wherever they wish, but their movement patterns are limited and precidtible. The cat—that is another sotry. She is all over the place! As cats are. She likes getting high. i cannot keep her in a neat box!
Chicken lady
6-5-18, 2:18pm
Lol! iris lilies.
Teacher Terry, my heartdaughter and I work(ed) at the same place (she is not coming back next year) every year the seniors do senior pranks, often aimed at a few favorite teachers. This year one of their pranks was to clean and organize her room. It took a two person team with intermittent assistants 6.5 hours. They sorted, categorized, and labeled everything. They shelved and alphabetized the books. They swept. They lined up the desks in a neat geometric pattern and raided other rooms to make all the chairs match. The other teachers came by all day to see. I actually laughed for a solid 5 minutes. My favorite touch was the stapler shelf. It was divided into sections and labeled “working staplers with staples” (5) “non-working, empty staplers” (2) “non-working stapler with staples permanently jammed in the mechanism” (1)
Teacher Terry
6-5-18, 2:24pm
That is too funny!
iris lilies
6-5-18, 2:27pm
Lol! iris lilies.
Teacher Terry, my heartdaughter and I work(ed) at the same place (she is not coming back next year) every year the seniors do senior pranks, often aimed at a few favorite teachers. This year one of their pranks was to clean and organize her room. It took a two person team with intermittent assistants 6.5 hours. They sorted, categorized, and labeled everything. They shelved and alphabetized the books. They swept. They lined up the desks in a neat geometric pattern and raided other rooms to make all the chairs match. The other teachers came by all day to see. I actually laughed for a solid 5 minutes. My favorite touch was the stapler shelf. It was divided into sections and labeled “working staplers with staples” (5) “non-working, empty staplers” (2) “non-working stapler with staples permanently jammed in the mechanism” (1)
Hilarious! And yet, useful!
i was in the enviable position at work of having a secretary for many years. It was a weird deal that was created before my time, and for reasons that had little to do with efficient use of personnel. Public sector, doncha know. So when I could eliminate that position, I did so.
anyway...
one time I was being driven mad by staplers that did not work. Each time
I reached for a stapler, seems that it did not work. Various sizes needed various types of staples. errrmahgod! So I asked her to take charge of them and make categories similar to those above. Laugh if you like, but it took her the better part of two days to organize the staplers.
Oh my ! I just tossed my favorite stapler! I had a parent who saw how terrible my office was this school year so she cheered me up by giving me cool desk stuff. She put pink sparklies on the stapler and the tape dispenser and I have a killer 3 hole punch. However the kids used the stapler for a project and it died,
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