View Full Version : Penalized for being frugal?
We have our house on the market. It was built in 1978 and we've been here 32 years. It's a 2200 square foot house in a nice development. Problem is, we have had lots of showings, but no interest so far.
We were never big wage earners, but we were frugal. Top priorities were getting our kids through college debt free, being debt free ourselves, and retiring early. Mission accomplished.
We fixed things in the house when they were broken. We have a new roof, driveway, heater, air conditioner, and well. House has been professional painted inside in a neutral color. Every bit of flooring has been replaced over 32 years, but it's worn and needs to be updated.
We never remodeled our kitchen or bathrooms because we were content with them (a nice colonial Williamsburg look). They still look nice but dated. But millenials want granite countertops, tile floors and stainless steel.
We priced our house accordingly. We have a good agent, reputable and experienced. If our house had the upgrades, we would have priced it at $30-40,000 more.
Our house is structurally sound, and just needs cosmetic updates.
Is no one willing to do that anymore? Do buyers want instant gratification? What if the colors aren't to their taste?
Just venting here. And maybe looking for encouragement.
Teacher Terry
5-18-18, 3:15pm
Most people want move in ready. I prefer homes like yours because I like to remodel to suit my tastes. It sounds like your home is priced too high due to what is needed.
I think people in general are busier, and many don't want to spend the time or money to change things in a house- they want move-in-ready. Also, a lot of people don't have any imagination, and can't see possibilities.
Are there cheaper things you can do to make things look updated? I'm thinking things like painting of cabinets, or new hardware for cabinets? Can you ask your agent for some cheaper ideas of what is popular in your area? It might be worth it to spend, say, 5,000 if you can up the price substantially and/or get more interest in your house and sell it quicker.
Is no one willing to do that anymore? Do buyers want instant gratification? What if the colors aren't to their taste?
No. No one is willing to invest time in a new home. They want it turn-key, and they want it to look like any of the flipped houses you see on HGTV. That's what our realtor told us 10 years ago when we were selling MIL's house (she was also very frugal and never updated it since 1953 when she moved in.)
We put BIL's house on the market in 2017 (last year at this time), and it had some updates because we renovated the house when when bought it--it was a foreclosure and a rat trap so we had to do something. In the same neighborhood, the EXACT same model house was put up to sale months before our--but it hadn't been updated since it was built in the 70s.
We got an offer on BIL's house right after the first open house. The other house is still on the market. That's how it goes these days. Millennials are not into home projects.
Teacher Terry
5-18-18, 3:33pm
Those are all good suggestions. Maybe replace the flooring also.
gimmethesimplelife
5-18-18, 4:40pm
I remember when the friend of my family passed in 2012 -he left behind two properties that were in decent condition but had never been updated and had 70's color schemes and 70's appliances. This person's family - also very frugal people to the point of being extreme with it - were stunned that they could not get the top dollar they were thinking they could due to the properties not being updated. One of the properties did not even have a dishwasher and though I've lived for years without one (I've actually got one now but am afraid to use it) I understand that if you want to appeal to a broader base of buyers, you need cosmetic and appliance updates, like it or not.
Long story short....the family refused the updates and a married gay male couple bought one of the houses cheap and did the updating themselves and I've seen pics of their updates online and wow! The property looks amazing now....night and day difference. But to get back to the main point, yes, people expect cosmetic perfection and modern this that and the other....if you want top dollar. Otherwise there will be an expected price reduction to bring the property into line with what the market overall expects.
My advice? If updating your property is beyond your income or your interests, stay in one place if possible for as long as you can to avoid these unrealistic capitalistic expectations. I get this is not possible for all people, but if you can pull it off, you can avoid being exposed to this issue. Rob
Our house is such a small piece of our portfolio and it would require such a substantial amount of expensive cosmetic work that we are just going to enjoy living in it for as long as possible as it is. We will get what we will get for it when it comes time to sell. Luckily, our downtown area has totally gentrified, the empty lots are full of expensive houses, and ours could even be a tear down due to the price of land in our historic area.
In our area, staging is the big thing to make things look updated. Is that an option for you?
iris lilies
5-18-18, 7:13pm
As I have mentioned here several times, many of our friends are selling their big old Victorian houses this year and moving on.
Varying degrees of perfection are reccomended by our real estate agent friends. For “top price” that is.
There seems to be an uncomfortably lean margin between top price/millenial expectation-perfection and flipper buyers. Flippers have got to be able to jam in a new kitchen in existing space/plumbing and a big new garage and maybe paint a bit and still make some money.
personally, I am like Terry and would rather choose my paint colors and kitchen cabinetry, and on my own schedule. I would be neither a flipper buyer or a expects-perfection buyer.
But something to consider is that these people who buy houses do not have any money for improvements. Sure they could get some kind of bridge mortgage loan or whatever it is called, but that is complicated and less likely to happen than a plain old comventional mortgage for a perfect house that appraises out.
I still shake my head about people who discount the most beautiful victorian house in the world because it doesnt have a garage. Well, build one for god’s sake
i say. DH reminds me that they do not hav$30,000 for a garage and apparently dont have the borrowing power for it,either.
We did all the inexpensive updates per our realtor. And we paid a stager as well. We put a ton of money into the important stuff. Rebuilding our chimney, replacing our collapsed well, replacing our aging siding, having the entire interior painted, etc. New roof too. But that is not the flashy stuff.
We've been in the home for 32 years, it was paid off a long time ago so I will be happy to lower the price. It is way too big for us and we are looking forward to a much smaller home with a lot of plans for travel. I'm ready to move on to the next stage in life. And if that means lowering the price, I'm fine with that.
iris lilies
5-18-18, 7:46pm
We did all the inexpensive updates per our realtor. And we paid a stager as well. We put a ton of money into the important stuff. Rebuilding our chimney, replacing our collapsed well, replacing our aging siding, having the entire interior painted, etc. New roof too. But that is not the flashy stuff.
We've been in the home for 32 years, it was paid off a long time ago so I will be happy to lower the price. It is way too big for us and we are looking forward to a much smaller home with a lot of plans for travel. I'm ready to move on to the next stage in life. And if that means lowering the price, I'm fine with that.
Oh right, that is another thing, the non-flashy stuff isnt seen.
people here still buy old houses with old and soometimes some original windows without understanding what that means.
It is the quartz countertops that matter!
In addition to being frugal, I am also ecology conscious. I was perfectly satisfied with my kitchen and never saw a need to rip it out because my neighbors were doing so. I didn't like the color of one of my bathroom sinks, but it was in great condition, and I couldn't bring myself to see it go to a landfill because I didn't like the color. It was a soft pale yellow - so not terribly offensive. If it were pink, that would be a different story!
I had a serious case of affluenza in my 20's, but quickly recovered when we got over our heads in debt. Our goals then became focused on being debt free. I considered that more of a status symbol than granite countertops. So yes, the price of the house will get lowered and hopefully we will find a buyer who enjoys remodeling projects.
rosarugosa
5-18-18, 8:20pm
Where do you live, Molly? Just curious about the general area and the real estate market. It is interesting to compare different parts of the country. I think our archaic kitchen and the fact that we converted this to a 1 bedroom house would not even be relevant if we sold. The market here is flaming hot, and small old houses like ours are tear-downs, or semi-tear-downs where they essentially drop a big new fancy house over the old one, keeping the existing footprint. We could probably get the same price for our lot, even with no house on it. We are a little bit north of Boston. The town recently voted to build some nice new schools, and apparently that is playing a part in our hot market.
The market/location you are in will determine demand. I would lower the price if you are ready to move on. We sold our 2-1 out-dated cottage in Austin two years ago for $450K because the land it sat on was (and still is) very sought after. It could have had only a dog house on it and still would have brought the same price. I just checked its current value and it is now at $550K. Darn...should have waited another year:( Where we have moved to, buyers are much less "sophisticated" so all the upgrades aren't necessary. At least not yet...
We have our house on the market. It was built in 1978 and we've been here 32 years. It's a 2200 square foot house in a nice development. Problem is, we have had lots of showings, but no interest so far.
We were never big wage earners, but we were frugal. Top priorities were getting our kids through college debt free, being debt free ourselves, and retiring early. Mission accomplished.
We fixed things in the house when they were broken. We have a new roof, driveway, heater, air conditioner, and well. House has been professional painted inside in a neutral color. Every bit of flooring has been replaced over 32 years, but it's worn and needs to be updated.
We never remodeled our kitchen or bathrooms because we were content with them (a nice colonial Williamsburg look). They still look nice but dated. But millenials want granite countertops, tile floors and stainless steel.
We priced our house accordingly. We have a good agent, reputable and experienced. If our house had the upgrades, we would have priced it at $30-40,000 more.
Our house is structurally sound, and just needs cosmetic updates.
Is no one willing to do that anymore? Do buyers want instant gratification? What if the colors aren't to their taste?
Just venting here. And maybe looking for encouragement.
Someone will buy it. Houses are selling in my neighborhood, built in 1950, 1250 to 1500 SF, old driveways not all paved, no one has central air, and I doubt granite or stainless steel either though I haven't peered in everyone's windows.
There are many people other than upscale double income millenials who dream of a home of their own. Who is your realtor targeting as potential buyers? Maybe that needs to change, or you need a different realtor who has connections in a variety of socieconomic groups.
Simplemind
5-18-18, 9:33pm
My ex is a contractor and when we were trying to figure out what to do with our folks home to sell he told us only to upgrade areas that were necessary for a loan. Beyond that he makes all his money by pulling out brand new remodels done for a sale and replacing it with what the new owners want. He was right, we priced accordingly and that house that had not had anything done to the kitchen or bathrooms since it was built in the 60's went as soon as we put it up.
iris lilies
5-18-18, 9:40pm
My ex is a contractor and when we were trying to figure out what to do with our folks home to sell he told us only to upgrade areas that were necessary for a loan. Beyond that he makes all his money by pulling out brand new remodels done for a sale and replacing it with what the new owners want. He was right, we priced accordingly and that house that had not had anything done to the kitchen or bathrooms since it was built in the 60's went as soon as we put it up.
That is true, mortgage companies care about roofs, fixing foundations, HVAC systems. Not cosmetics. Well, for the
inspection anyway. The mortgage holder’s appraiser, that is different. Appraised value will reflect old kitchens and old bathrooms.
cindycindy
5-19-18, 1:46pm
Molly, your post could have been written my me. We sold our house about a year ago under the very same circumstances. All the systems (HVAC, plumbing, etc) had been maintained meticulously. The house was built in 1977. Additionally, we updated kitchens & baths frugally when we bought the house in 1996 (as in DH refinished kitchen cabinets; replacing the blue & harvest gold bathrooms with neutral white tile, replacing some old carpet with hardwood floors). Realtors and viewers were aghast at how "90's"and outdated the house looked. People wanted "mid century" look with an open concept kitchen (think every HGTV episode). I had never watched HGTV in my life. Started watching it and finally understood the mindset. We would have probably broken even re: price if we had stayed and done the updates ourselves but who needs that risk, the potential to find more problems and the headache only to break even. We eventually drastically lowered the price (luckily we were able to lower price as house was paid off and we bought at low point of market in our area) and got on with our lives and the new downsized place where we are now. But who knew? Our values was to save for retirement and our kids' instate tuition, and not home renovations to a perfectly good functional (& to me attractive) kitchen, etc. I have no regrets. Trendy renovations get old fast, but my retirement account never needs a new roof. Good luck to you; I know what you're going through.
I read a decorating article recently that opined that "open concept" was the biggest mistake ever (I couldn't agree more wholeheartedly), but I won't hold my breath waiting for that attitude to filter down to tract developers.
Teacher Terry
5-19-18, 2:43pm
Yes who wants to look at your dirty dishes when sitting in the living room? Also the noise level is louder especially if you don't have carpet. We only had 1 home that we did not upgrade while living in it and it sold fine. If the kitchen cabinets were in decent shape we always worked with them by either refinishing, painting or refacing them. Much, much cheaper then new ones and then we install a really nice countertop.
I read a decorating article recently that opined that "open concept" was the biggest mistake ever (I couldn't agree more wholeheartedly), but I won't hold my breath waiting for that attitude to filter down to tract developers.
Was that in The Atlantic? I just read it today. I gasped when I read about the firm that has designed a fairly middle-class (not Downton Abbey) home with TWO kitchens--one for that all-important beautiful society-ready and pristine kitchen "for entertaining" and then another kitchen behind it, where all the real live kitchen mess takes place. Kind of like one of those appliance garages, big enough to garage a whole kitchen.
Or, like having a Food Network set as the "entertaining" kitchen. Just for the cameras.
Before we recently reno'd the kitchen in our "retirement" house, there was a tiny doorway between the dining/living area and the kitchen. The contractors we spoke to wanted to completely remove the wall and put some sort of giant island betwixt the two areas. Instead, we did the work ourselves by opening it up but leaving a half wall with a counter. DH was adamant that he didn't want to walk in the front door and immediately see the mess in the kitchen. Makes sense to me.
Was that in The Atlantic? I just read it today. ...
I think it was in Apartment life.
DH was adamant that he didn't want to walk in the front door and immediately see the mess in the kitchen. Makes sense to me.
My sentiments precisely.
Adding my agreement that the "open concept" is beautiful for a showroom but not practical for everyday living. I also agree that people underestimate the noise levels in a wide-open space with no curtains or carpeting. I'm curious to see examples of people who have reversed course on the open concept house.
If you're a compulsive partier and like the idea of crowds milling around your kitchen, buy a house with a large one, say I--don't bring the whole messy business into your living room. I liked the family room concept from--was it the nineties?--that corralled the throngs and contained the chaos nicely.
I'm curious to see examples of people who have reversed course on the open concept house.
Before my first wife and I divorced, we had built the "forever" house. Largely open floor plan -- with a few concessions, like a two-tiered kitchen island so that you could hide the meal-prep mess from the living and dining rooms. We loved the amount of space made possible by having the common living areas under one big vaulted roof. But that didn't wear so well in actual living. Wherever you were felt cavernous, never cozy. Even the master bedroom, a much smaller area but under the same vaulted roof, never felt all that inviting. When we split she stayed in the house.
Now I live in a mid-70s rambler. I opened up the main living area considerably, to the point where it's kind of like a "shotgun shack" (allegedly so named because room openings were lined up similarly enough that you could fire a shotgun from the front of the house and the shot would go throughout the house never hitting a wall). The house is open and has a fair amount of natural light in it but it retains a human scale and it does not appear to be almost half a century old. Different ceiling treatments define rooms, too, so it's not all one big room.
Molly is encountering a few issues. One is that most buyers indeed are interested in buying "turnkey". In my experience very few people can see past worn floors or bold paint colors or older-style cabinetry to the bones of a house, to make relatively cheap cosmetic changes. Most buyers also have no idea what it costs to make repairs to a house. My mom thinks that the cost of any renovation is only how much the basic raw mateiral costs at Menard's; prospective home buyers look at octopus furnaces and old windows and start subtracting multiples of $10,000 from the price of the house because they just don't know. The buying process is not conducive to that kind of research during the purchase, either. And while new(er) furnaces and floors and windows are nice, they're pretty much just the ante in selling a home. People expect not to have to repair or replace anything major for a while after they move in -- or they expect a steep discount in the price. But it sounds like Molly and her DH are in good shape to either take their time to sell or cut the price before the house lingers on the market (also not a good thing).
Both my sons--one has two small children and the other will have his first in a couple of weeks--have kind of reversed one of the raisons-d'etre for the open living/kitchen area, that being "I can watch the kids while I cook."
While both their living areas and kitchens are kind of open, they have turned a den into an adjacent playroom that is shut off from the open areas. They can put a gate there, but the toy mess is contained. So it seems that some people realize that open is nice, but mess is not, and how much mess do you want visitors--and yourself--to be in the midst of all the time? The TV is also in the playroom, so they just go in there and hang with the kids and watch TV, leaving their living rooms nice and neat and looking like the parlors of yesteryear.
...
While both their living areas and kitchens are kind of open, they have turned a den into an adjacent playroom that is shut off from the open areas. They can put a gate there, but the toy mess is contained. So it seems that some people realize that open is nice, but mess is not, and how much mess do you want visitors--and yourself--to be in the midst of all the time? The TV is also in the playroom, so they just go in there and hang with the kids and watch TV, leaving their living rooms nice and neat and looking like the parlors of yesteryear.
That pretty much describes the family room concept. I looked at a well-designed house once that featured one, and I could imagine spending nearly all my waking hours in it.
Gardenarian
5-22-18, 2:10pm
I agree with razz about staging. You don't have to get a professional (though I've read the $$ are well worth it.)
Are you living in the house? Tl;dr An empty house shows so much better.
Then there's curb appeal - a couple of big pots or baskets of coloful annuals can help a lot.
Check the description of your house on Zillow - as owner, you are allowed to edit it. They often leave out important things. They had our previous home listed as a 2 bedroom rather than 3, and didn't mention the large office, deck, or view. You can add thing like "new roof in 2016, new HVAC" etc. You could say "a perfect blank slate, ready for your decorating taste!"
We bought my current house when it was in much the same condition as yours. Everything works and there is a great layout - so much more important to us than fancy tile. We haven't changed much either, except for lots of gardening/landscaping.
Good luck!
catherine
5-23-18, 12:08pm
That pretty much describes the family room concept. I looked at a well-designed house once that featured one, and I could imagine spending nearly all my waking hours in it.
My kids' den is different from my NJ home 70s family room. In the 70s, the "family room" was like a second living room, somewhat connected to the flow of the house, but serving a different purpose (more casual). The den is a totally different room. Think home office turned playroom. The place where my DGS4 and I watched a Goosebumps marathon last night while DGS1 crawled around sucking on robot toys :)
I have an open concept in the back half of my 1300 sq ft house and absolutely love it! I can move my easy chairs in the LR area around the hardwood floors to accommodate extra people or different family members can work around the kitchen area peninsula and visit when preparing meals. It is compact, easy to clean and so flexible in use. We can see out back to the gardens, walk into the patio and have free movement between the indoors and out.
If the open concept is a very large space, I may well feel very differently.
Teacher Terry
5-23-18, 2:14pm
In big homes you don't feel comfortable. Yours sounds perfect. My kitchen and dining room are mostly open and we can see our backyard and patio too.
iris lilies
5-23-18, 7:19pm
We are making fun of “open concept” in my neighbothood when people buy these old Victorians and then tear down walls. Yes, an open concept Victorian, there ya go.
but
I shouldnt make fun because my own smallish house has living room/ dining room share same space. Previous owner pulled down the wall and pocket doorsm and that was ok with us becuase it is not a large space. But the kitchen still has walls to define a separate room.
I love it when people on HGTV say "We want open concept but need a formal dining room."
I love it when people on HGTV say "We want open concept but need a formal dining room."
Which will be used maybe six times a year, max.... >8)
Which will be used maybe six times a year, max.... >8)
Ha! We don't use it even 6X! It came with the house we loved. So there it sits! Can't tear down the wall between it and the kitchen. I would lose 60% of my kitchen cupboards.
Teacher Terry
5-25-18, 7:12pm
Our kitchen is galley style with no room for a table so use ours all the time.
My dining room is where the computer, printer are, a dining table where I write, stereo- way too big, china closet and secretary, book case....way too much furniture but very useful. We entertain tomorrow for out 40th picnic....but it's outside and seldom do people sit in the dining room. I did clear it all off for diners though.
catherine
5-25-18, 10:24pm
I turned my dining room into my home office, and turned my "formal" living room into a library-type room with comfy chairs and books, and an expandable table that goes from the size of a sofa table to seating for 10, which I use for Thanksgiving. Our casual dining is around a table that has banquette seating in the kitchen. Works for us.
I turned my dining room into my home office, and turned my "formal" living room into a library-type room with comfy chairs and books, and an expandable table that goes from the size of a sofa table to seating for 10, which I use for Thanksgiving. Our casual dining is around a table that has banquette seating in the kitchen. Works for us.
That sounds perfect to me; I rarely use my living room or dining area.
Our 'formal' living room out front holds my upright grand piano, our computer desk and my mid-arm quilting machine. The perfect mixed use:cool: In the corner of our family room out back by the window overlooking the garden/patio, we have a 2 seat glass top bistro set. This is where we eat our meals. No listening to traffic go by as we would at the dining room table.;)
Update on the house - I have a cousin who is a professional kitchen designer and she recommended we NOT do any updates. She said she wished she had a dime for every person who updated their kitchen when they were selling only to find out the new owners ripped it out.
We just lowered our price and got one bid, contingent upon the sale of their house. We can still show our house in the meantime and accept other bids. I'm not holding my breath. The comments we receive are still the same. It's clean and maintained but needs updating. Never mind the new roof, siding, well, heating, A/C.
We're keeping our fingers crossed that our buyer can sell their home soon.
Another thought on trendy kitchens - Yes, they do get dated faster than classic ones. Our house was built in the late 70's and when we bought it, it had a "trendy" kitchen. Harvest Gold appliances and counter tops with parquet vinyl flooring.
But it had beautiful upgraded Shaker cabinets in a dark polished wood. We eventually replaced the appliances with the color "Biscuit" and the counter tops with an off white laminate with small flecks that disguise any tiny dings. We also replaced the flooring with neutral colored vinyl planks that look very much like hardwood.
I don't worship at the alter of HGTV. I have a paid off house and money in the bank.
iris lilies
6-16-18, 9:55am
Both my sons--one has two small children and the other will have his first in a couple of weeks--have kind of reversed one of the raisons-d'etre for the open living/kitchen area, that being "I can watch the kids while I cook."
While both their living areas and kitchens are kind of open, they have turned a den into an adjacent playroom that is shut off from the open areas. They can put a gate there, but the toy mess is contained. So it seems that some people realize that open is nice, but mess is not, and how much mess do you want visitors--and yourself--to be in the midst of all the time? The TV is also in the playroom, so they just go in there and hang with the kids and watch TV, leaving their living rooms nice and neat and looking like the parlors of yesteryear.
I dont get people who buy real estate that works primarily for their tiny children. The tiny children stay that way for about 5 Seconds.
its the same thing for people who cant have a mastsr bedroom on a first floor while all other bedrooms are up the stairs because they cant be away from their small children.
I say, buy a house for the long term. Figure out how to use it today, and reconfigure your use in a few years.
The parents can sleep upstairs for a few years until the tiny kids get bigger, leaving master bedroom as office or family room or whatever.
our architect asked what we were using as The Master Bedroom in our
Hermann house. ???? I dont even know what that means in THIs house, there is no such thing with one bathroom total and it is in the hall. I think “the master bedrooom” is 5e one with heat and a real closet. It is not the former garage.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.