What would you do? (Entitlement version)

[catherine]

We've had a bunch of discussions about taxpayers and people who give and people who take, and attitudes about different entitlements.

So here is a real life scenario. Imagine this is a John Quinones TV show. Imagine you are a spectator in the following situation:

Paul (name changed to protect the innocent) has worked since he was 18 as a waiter. The most recent job he held he had for 7 years as a good, loyal employee. Unfortunately, one day, Paul was terminated from his job. His girlfriend, Kristen, supported him by telling him she was sure he would get another job soon.

Then Paul said, "Well, I guess I'll apply for unemployment."

To which Kristen says, "That's such a loser thing to do."

So, to please Kristen, Paul doesn't apply for unemployment. He assumes that by the time his savings have run out he'll have found another job, but that's not the case (bad timing on the termination as he lives in a seasonal town). So he asks his parents for money, and they wind up paying rent for a couple of months because they know that a) he's a dedicated worker and b) they also think another job will come along sooner rather than later and they, too, want to help him out if they can.

What say you? Should Paul have applied for unemployment? Or would he have been, as Kristen said, a "loser" to do so?


Please feel free to add your own "episodes" of "What Would You Do? (Entitlement version)". Real or imagined.

[Float On]

Sure he is entitled to apply. Doesn't sound like he would try to abuse the system.
Unemployment is taxable.

I do live in a "seasonal town" and many go on unemployment for the winter. Usually the employer signs off that they'll be re-hired in the new season and the employee doesn't have to take classes or apply to jobs to keep their unemployment.

I am all for limits to the length a person can collect unemployment and the requirements for job applications and classes for improved employment.

[JaneV2.0]

I don't see anything wrong with applying for unemployment if you need the income. I tried it once myself when I was laid off, but I didn't have enough hours to qualify. I don't see anything wrong with just finding your own way either, If that's how you roll. Judgy Kristen sounds like someone I would consider crossing off my list.

[Tybee]

Is it too late for Paul to apply for unemployment? Is there a deadline?

Unless Kristen is going to happily pay Paul's rent until he finds work, I think that she is the "loser" here for giving harmful advice.

On a side note, a friend of mine dated John Quinones, a long time ago, in a galaxy far away.

[Teacher Terry]

Of course he should apply. You never know how long it will take to get a job.

[Chicken lady]

As a spectator I don’t feel entitled to make judgements about paul’s Life. I know nothing about the nature or importance of his relationship with Kristen or his parents. Nor do I know anything about his parent’s financial situation or values. Just to start.

also, i don’t know who John quinones is.

[iris lilies]

As a waiter he should be plugged in better to the waitperson culture in that seasonal town, and that would have educated him on the difficulty in getting a job in the down season. He shoulda taken the unemployment.

In the bigger picture , I dont fault ( generally speaking) citizens for taking gubmnt handouts that they/we easily qualify for.

I do fault my gubmnt for spending us all into oblivion.

[Simplemind]

A bird in the hand...… He should take it while looking for employment.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Paul should have applied for unemployment. Duh that is what the facts say ends well, people who try to make it on their own the facts say they are more likely to end up in poverty etc.. Refusing help when needed is linked to staying in poverty in the same way many other unwise behaviors can be.

However there are positions it is more easy to find than others. If Paul is looking for professional work it might take him longer. I hear people laid off from Sears who won't apply and I wonder at it. And then I think about it, like maybe it's not that hard to get a similar retail job if you have years of experience doing it etc.. Although I don't personally know. Maybe saying "screw unemployment I can get a job" really makes sense in circumstances where it really is that easy to get a job somewhat similar to your last (I'm not saying one should hold off for a job paying exactly what one's last one did or anything, but otoh should a laid off engineer's first thought really be: "I can flip burgers!". I don't think so).

However unemployment is the easy one, should Paul have applied for food stamps or something is a more difficult question (and more humiliating as it will involve a lot more hoops to jump through and carries a lot more stigma). And if he doesn't have income coming in or no income but paltry unemployment payments he might qualify.

And it may as well be mentioned that only about 1/3 of the people who end up unemployed actually qualify for unemployment, not just because it runs out, but they might quit (no unemployment then no matter), their old employer might (and sometimes illegitimately) fight their unemployment claim etc.


Unless Kristen is going to happily pay Paul's rent until he finds work, I think that she is the "loser" here for giving harmful advice.

+1

[Williamsmith]

Paul’s parents are suckers. While it is perfectly feasible for unemployment to be “automatic” given the state of technology; the system relies on people not applying for it through principles, indifference, stupidity or laziness among other things. I’ve described it as a positive checkoff system. Kristen is the girlfriend of someone she describes as a loser. Which tells me all I need to know about her. They are a perfect pairing.

I know a guy who retired with a better than 100% school pension as a principle. He started his pension which was very comfortable and by good fortune a local school district needed a principle so they hired him as an interim. He got paid hourly and handsomely on top of his pension. When that ran out he got unemployment compensation for that. Tiring of that he got a job at a golf course as a seasonal worker. In the winter he filed for unemployment for six months and received $450/week for doing nothing. All perfectly legal because he had a letter from the golf course stating he was going to be hired back on a specific date. He spent most of the unemployment money in the local social clubs.

If Paul wants to act on principle or is simply lazy.....he shouldn’t be asking people for assistance. Its already been provided in the form of unemployment compensation.

[ApatheticNoMore]

If Paul wants to act on principle or is simply lazy.....he shouldn’t be asking people for assistance. Its already been provided in the form of unemployment compensation.

+1 go to your parents hat in hand if it comes to that, but not because you are being an idiot and turning down things you are entitled to.

[bae]

He should apply, and is foolish not to.

[pinkytoe]

Doesn't the employer pay in to a fund for covering unemployment? I recall that DH filed for unemployment when laid off in 2009. I think he got about six weeks worth of coverage before taking another job. It was good incentive for finding something quickly at the time. I think Paul should have taken it.

[JaneV2.0]

Employers are taxed to provide unemployment insurance through local governments.

[razz]

If one needs financial assistance, if it is available, if one is eligible, one should apply. That is the reason for its existence and why one pays into the program. If one should fail to apply for assistance when needed based on someone else's opinion, one is not too smart.

[KayLR]

Looking forward to the episode where Paul kicks Kristen to the curb.

[iris lilies]

Looking forward to the episode where Paul kicks Kristen to the curb.
Snort!

[ApatheticNoMore]

Looking forward to the episode where Paul kicks Kristen to the curb.

yea I know, dump the #*%^%

Ideally one's partner should help one brainstorm solutions to problems, not that they are always readily apparent or there are any easy answers, but certainly not insult one and sabotage their best solutions at the time (presumably collect unemployment and look for work). Really it would be better if she just walked out with: "sorry but I'm not dating an unemployed guy!!!" rather than outright sabotage their life.

[Yppej]

Paul is entitled to the unemployment benefit his employer funded. If they feel he is not deserving they can request an unemployment hearing, but it sounds like they are fine with him filing.

Many employers go beyond this and also offer severance.

[iris lilies]

Paul is entitled to the unemployment benefit his employer funded. If they feel he is not deserving they can request an unemployment hearing, but it sounds like they are fine with him filing.

Many employers go beyond this and also offer severance.
Severance pay isnt an industry standard in the restaurant biz, but sure, it could happen.

[Miss Cellaneous]

Unemployment is paid by state and federal taxes on your employer. It is part of your benefits package, that "hidden paycheck" that some employers make a big deal out of.

And the more former employees that collect unemployment, the more your company will have to pay. So if you are really angry at getting laid off, collecting unemployment is one way to get a little revenge.

Paul was silly to let a comment about being a loser stop him from collecting his benefits. He's earned them by working hard for 7 years; no need to brush them aside.

Also, many states allow (or encourage) you to work while collecting unemployment. If you temp or take a part-time job, in my state, you can earn up to 30% of your weekly unemployment award. If you earn more than 30%, they reduce your weekly award by the amount you earned. And if you earn more than 130% in a given week, you get nothing, but you've earned more money! More money is good! And you have extended the time you can get benefits, because that money doesn't go away, but is still there if you need it later in the year.

So, yeah, not sure why collecting unemployment is being a loser. It's not an entitlement program--your employer pays into it based on your wages. It's a benefit your employer provides to you, not a handout from the government.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I don't think employer paying is really the best way of running the system, however as long as people would otherwise rail about it being a handout for the government, it is probably the best solution there is at present. As long as were are ruled by the awful cast of characters we tend to be (who neither know the experience of unemployment nor know the experience of desperately having to work for a living), flawed solutions are what we have. And Paul should collect! :~)

[Rogar]

It doesn't seem right to me to apply for unemployment the minute a person becomes unemployed unless they are in dire financial straits. It does make sense to apply if the job market is poor and the chances of getting a job soon are not promising or if financial difficulties are pending. Around here food service jobs are plentiful. I would pose other questions, like if he could get a job as a cook should he take it or wait until a better waiter's job comes open. How about a low wage at a fast food place just to get by for a while. If he has spent down his savings, should he also apply for food stamps or other welfare? Should Paul retrain for a better career?

I have been in a similar situation although a long time ago. I never filed for any government benefits, but was fortunate to find another job within a couple of months.

[Teacher Terry]

It doesn't hurt to file immediately because if you find a job you tell them and don't get the $. Better then waiting until you are broke and desperate. Most states also have a waiting period before you get paid.

[jp1]

I’m some ways it does make sense that the employer has to fund unemployment more if more is paid out to people that worked for them. For example I once worked for a performing arts organization where the performers were contracted to work 24 weeks out of the year. During the weeks they weren’t performing they were all able to collect unemployment. They all had an ongoing claim all year and collected for the weeks they weren’t working.

[Teacher Terry]

Years ago NY stopped this policy with school bus drivers who used to get unemployment during the summer. It was understood it was a 9 month job

[jp1]

Years ago NY stopped this policy with school bus drivers who used to get unemployment during the summer. It was understood it was a 9 month job
I assume they did that by paying them over the full year instead of the nine months?

The organization I worked at knew that the performers were doing this and accounted for it in their negotiations with the performer’s union.

[ToomuchStuff]

First I had to look up who this John fellow was.
Ok, playing the observer mode, does she appear to have any clothing on her, that makes it appear that she is a former supervisor of her boyfriend, where she may be trying to get him not to collect unemployement. (while possibly showing she violated dating policies)

[Teacher Terry]

JP, it was back in the 80’s but I think they either wrote a law or put it in their contract that they were not eligible. She didn’t get paid during the summer.