View Full Version : Retirement date - your thoughts?
Hello friends, I'm puzzling over whether to try to stick it out at my job for another few years.
Best financial scenario is if I can last another 2 years, which sounds like nothing, however:
1. Workplace is psychologically terrible and has recently gotten even worse.
2. Between commute and required work hours I am having an increasingly difficult time putting in the amount of workout time/self-care that I need to stay physically healthy.
Right now I'm thinking in terms of trying to improve my attitude and trying to figure out ways not to let the job affect my health so much. If anyone has any suggestions or thoughts I would be grateful.
Have you tried counseling? Meditation?
The job market is strong where I am. Can you get a different job? Do you receive your medical insurance through your job? If not or if you are eligible for Medicare, would that free you up for contract to hire work so you can see if you like the company before committing to them?
Two years does sound short, but I actually quit because of health reasons, about 5 years short of when I could have gotten Medicare.
If I could go back, I would try to find another job when I had the first one. If that did not work, I would try to figure out a way to keep the job but emotionally divorce myself from it and make self care a huge priority.
Unfortunately, counseling and meditation did not work for me in that toxic environment.
Can you strategically plan your time off to get breaks often enough to make it two years? Do you need any medical procedures that you could take care of during these two years so you could take paid (or even unpaid) medical leave?
ToomuchStuff
7-4-18, 2:04pm
Are they trying to make an uncomfortable environment, hoping that you will quit, rather then the possibility of firing and an age discrimination suit? Do they offer any programs/benefits like gym memberships to help keep their medical benefits costs down? (could you be enrolled where you need time to save them money)
One suggestion if you are slightly on the fence financially is to figure out the lowest income you will have to survive on and live on that amount right now. Save everything else. If you cannot do it, what are you going to do to get more income and is retirement right now possible? If there are large expenses, have you planned for them?
Two years does sound short, but I actually quit because of health reasons, about 5 years short of when I could have gotten Medicare.
If I could go back, I would try to find another job when I had the first one. If that did not work, I would try to figure out a way to keep the job but emotionally divorce myself from it and make self care a huge priority.
Two years is a mighty long time when you have to drag your backside into work every day because you dislike it so much. And add to that the toll it takes on your health.
As toomuchstuff asked, is there a way you could work some exercise or some decent-sized breaks into your workday? Is there a way to change your commute to take less time or let someone else battle traffic so you can use the time the way you'd like to? Even if it costs some money to do that, it may be worth it in the long run if it lets you address your health (because if you don't have that, who cares much about the money?).
Is there a way you could work four 10-hour days instead of five 8-hour days? Or some work you could do at home rather than sit in the office? Is job-sharing a possibility and how much would a reduction in hours affect your retirement plans?
FWIW I was never good at the emotional divorce thing at work. For one thing, there were requirements to work extra hours or off hours to accommodate clients; for another, I was on a pager/smartphone 7x24 for when servers went down, etc. Add in time spent reading industry journals, catching up on email, etc. It was very hard for me to compartmentalize work when it -- umm -- stained my entire week's schedule and I didn't like the place anyway.
For me, the best route was out. Yeah, I probably dinged my Social Security earnings some and I can think of lots of things I could have bought with the money I didn't make at my new job. But I'm happier and healthier and I have not spent a moment regretting that I didn't stay. It didn't get better there. I don't know which alternatives you've evaluated but I am hopeful you've got some more ideas to think about; if they don't work at least you can be more confident about whichever option you choose.
I will say my blood pressure went down 50 points when I quit, so I think in retrospect I probably did the right thing...
Simplemind
7-5-18, 12:23am
I had to jump early (three years) because I couldn't take it one more second. Although it was a bit scary at first the lack of stress was a huge plus. I think it was heaven sent because within 6 months my husband ended up losing his job due to a stroke and they never would have been happy with the amount of time I would have needed to take off. I also would have had my mind on him whenever I was at work. All things considered health wise it was good for both of us. No regrets. I still keep in touch with several people and I notice when we get into conversations about the problems that continue I find myself feeling worked up and tense. I'm gone six years and it can still stress me out.
I retired when I was 36.
I asked myself “20 years from now, when I look back, will this matter?”
I retired 11 years ago, just shy of turning 50. I should have quit sooner. I sure enjoyed those years much more doing what I wanted instead of going to work.
If you can make it financially I’d go. I always say you don’t know how much time you have, don’t waste it. I don’t know what working two more years will do for you, I’ve know a few that kept putting retireing off and then missed out on some good years do to health.
Looking back, retireing at 50 instead of 60 cost me a few million. But I’ve already lived longer than my mom and several other friends and relatives. So the kids won’t inherit as much when I’m gone, or the wife’s next husband will have to get by on a little less.
It was still worth it to me.
Rachel, Working longer is pretty much always the best case scenario financially, and working until you drop dead is the ultimate best-case financial scenario. Luckily, there is more to life than money, but you do need to be able to pay the bills. What kind of shape will you be in financially if you retire now? If you would be in reasonably decent shape, then count me as another vote for placing a premium value on your finite time on the planet and making the most of it.
I retired 2 years earlier than was my plan and I have to be a little bit more conservative financially, but I have no regrets.
Your best financial scenario is 2 more years of work. Your other comments are about how to cope with these 2 more years. It rather sounds like you've already made up your mind about staying 2 more years.
You haven't talked about your financial scenario if you jump now? Have you evaluated that at all?
Are there any options at your current work? Can you talk to your boss at all about the negative affects on your health? (I do well know this is not always doable).
What happens to your mental/physical health if you stay?
Teacher Terry
7-5-18, 12:32pm
I retired 2 years early due to stress and my bp went down a lot. Plus 3 of my friends have died between 59 and 67. Life can be short. But the big question is can you afford it?
I really appreciate all the responses. It helps a lot just to be "heard." Steve in MN, what you said about not being able to do the "emotional divorce" expresses my situation so well--extra hours, lots of availability.
Rosarugosa, you gave me a laugh about the "ultimate best case scenario financially!"
From how I see the numbers, I can retire now if I get another job after quitting "This Job." It would be for way less money, but most likely also less stress and more predictable hours. If I could get something with medical benefits I might do that.
I actually think that making a commitment to myself to just get out of the building once a day could make a difference. I'll definitely work on that.
You've all given me points to consider, much appreciated.
Husband retired a twice before. This week he has his letter of resignation ready. He is 56 and ready this time. The stress and hours will kill him we both know. A few more years would financially be the best, but at what cost? Same as you say. The mental struggle of retiring was getting pretty bad, looking at the negative vs the positive. Last week the wheel finally spun the other direction and the positive thoughts started. He took this coming week off before resigning to take a break from the issue.
Good luck and yes get out of building once a day it may make the difference you need. I think if hubby should separate himself from 24/7 it would but he won't.
Continuing my reply:
Some sort of part time work is quite possible, part or full time---just won't be as remunerative.
To TeacherTerry: Yes, I can afford it. And I'm incredibly fortunate to be able to say that. I could cover all the basics and have some fun too. I am so grateful to be able to say that. But I would have to give up traveling and I might have to leave less for my children. That would be a very big loss for me and I'm not ready to "let them take that away from me."
I like the suggestion to do a dry run of frugal retirement living, that is something I can do and I think it would make me feel more empowered to see myself actually living out this scenario while an ongoing "safety net" (the job) is still in place.
These are all good specifics to mull over. Thank you again.
and I might have to leave less for my children. That would be a very big loss for me and I'm not ready to "let them take that away from me."
I find it sad that you would continue to go to a negative-impact work environment to leave money to your children at some point X down the road. Why is that more important than your own mental/physical health and enjoying YOUR life?
If you took this inheritance OUT of the equation how does it change your financial forecast?
Teacher Terry
7-7-18, 8:35am
I agree with G. Not sure if I would want to give up travel.
A friend's husband was sacked from his job of thirty years with absolutely no notice. Fortunately, he's always been careful with money and he was age-eligible for SS. They're having a wonderful time taking day trips and just enjoying life. I say be ready to jump--knowing that you can escape if necessary is very freeing.
Jane, I'm half hoping the same thing will happen to me. The decision would be made for me and I might get some unemployment checks. I'm basically ready to disappear one way or another...
Hi Gardnr, Yes, I have exhaustively evaluated my finances and have gotten independent opinions from two different financial planners. It's just a matter of a somewhat more or somewhat less lavish lifestyle post-retirement, with "lavish" being defined mostly as *travel.*
The effect on my physical health (and therefore mental health, as I experience these as very highly connected) is something I'm going to be evaluating very carefully over the coming months. I see this job as very deleterious, and that may push me towards a sooner date.
Oh gosh, imagining talking to the bosses about the effect of that workplace on my health--funny, maybe not funny in a fun way though.
Thanks for your comment, it helps to process all this stuff in this forum.
Teacher Terry
8-9-18, 7:09pm
How about a p.t. job? I have been teaching a online college class for the past 6 years and the stress is zero.
dado potato
8-10-18, 12:17am
Rachel,
If the decision is to continue in your current position for X number of years, there may be some ways (both straightforward and devious) to improve your work life:
Amend your role so as to do more of what you enjoy and find intrinsically rewarding, and to do less of the other job activities.
Manage stress more effectively. (Do people at work encourage/practice Nonviolent Communication "NVC"?)
Improve the aesthetics of your individual workplace, your commute (audiobooks?, able to stop at a gym/indoor track before/after work?)
In my experience, it was an improvement to buy a skipping rope that I stowed in a bottom desk drawer and I used 1-2x per day instead of a "coffee break" at that time.
Amend your role so as to do more of what you enjoy and find intrinsically rewarding, and to do less of the other job activities.
I'm very interested in specifics of just how that's done. Got anything?
Hi Gardnr, Yes, I have exhaustively evaluated my finances and have gotten independent opinions from two different financial planners. It's just a matter of a somewhat more or somewhat less lavish lifestyle post-retirement, with "lavish" being defined mostly as *travel.*
The effect on my physical health (and therefore mental health, as I experience these as very highly connected) is something I'm going to be evaluating very carefully over the coming months. I see this job as very deleterious, and that may push me towards a sooner date.
Oh gosh, imagining talking to the bosses about the effect of that workplace on my health--funny, maybe not funny in a fun way though.
Thanks for your comment, it helps to process all this stuff in this forum.
It sounds like your choice is simple (not), retire or work. It doesn't sound like there are any further options.
So.....the option is to reframe your work in your mind/heart so that you go home positive every day instead of emotionally exhausting. That's internal work (I know, been there/done that).
Best of luck!
dado potato
8-10-18, 10:14am
Steve,
Specifics are most readily identified in an individual situation, but...
The role(s) that are incumbent on any given employee are defined both formally (as in a written job description, relevant regulations, quotas, previous re-organization efforts, etc.) and informally (by negotiation among coworkers, the employee's history of volunteering and initiating activities, satisficing decisions made over a long period by the employee's supervisor, 1:1 negotiation between the employee and supervisor, etc. )
An employee might look on amending his own role as a long term work project. As such, a goal initially needs to be identified and stated. The goal might be stated in terms like:
By (date 6 months in the future) at work I will be devoting more of my time and energies to (a list of 3 priority activities that are intrinsically rewarding, i.e. 1______2______3________)
and less to (a list of 5 work-related activities that I regard as a waste of time, onerous, unpleasant, outside my job description, and/or stressful, i.e. 1_____2_____3______4_____5______).
The goal statement may be continuously updated as new opportunities for rewarding activities arise, or there are successes in curbing or eliminating the effort and energy expended on the activities in the second list. In organizations lacking in open and honest communication about such matters, an individual's goal statement with 2 lists would be kept private.
In certain organizations there is a controlling "chain of command" including an immediate superior, who might be requested and persuaded to approve of changes in the activities of this employee. If so, tactics need to be identified to that end.
How are suggestions received? (What has happened to people who have made suggestions to this particular supervisor in the past?) Does management boast of "six Sigma" or "continuous improvement"?... if so, I would assume that suggestions have a good chance of being welcomed and approved.
I have seen (too long ago for me to remember the source) a video on the art of making proposals with a high probability of being accepted intact. As I recall, it advised maintaining at all times a file folder containing 5 written proposals, ready for one proposal to be submitted at any opportune moment. The format for each proposal is SOPPADA. rogerbrucker.com/soppada.pdf
Aside from working on change (with proposals to the superior) of the formal organization, tactics can be identified for influencing and changing the informal organization by negotiating with peers and coworkers. There may be possibilities for "trade" among coworkers, whereby the employee with greater seniority and status adds rewarding tasks (first list) and subtracts tasks from the second list, making periodic deals with other employees who are amenable.
A shock tactic for eliminating something from the second list is to create a vacuum. Tell supervisor and co-workers that after a certain date, you will not be doing it any more. A rationalization may be helpful, eg "I started doing _____(activity) due to ________(reason that existed at the time), and _____ (said reason) is now _______ (passed/changed/in-need-of-a-more-comprehensive-response/other)."
As an individual makes progress in curbing the activities on the second list, I believe it is politically astute to be visible in doing more activity on the first list. Otherwise, one might be shamed by coworkers for "skulking", "goldbricking", "shirking", "evading" or other pejorative terms the workplace gossips might want to use. Expect everybody to have a tendency to resist change, especially any change that portends unpleasantness and difficulty coming their way.
Thanks, dado potato. All I can say is that you worked at far more enlightened places than I did. At my last place in particular, we ran (too) fast and (too) lean. There was almost zero room for "church work" and a byzantine budgeting/resource allocation process meant that help came v e r y slowly. In addition, I was not high enough in the pecking order to declare that, as of date, I would no longer do "X". That, as they say, would have been a career-limiting move. But thanks for the illustrations.
Teacher Terry
8-10-18, 8:02pm
We had our job performance standards in writing that we were evaluated on. We did not write them. The people above us did. It didn’t make any difference that we were professionals. I laughed out loud when I read it. But as Steve said maybe you worked somewhere that would fly.
My company is very rigid and hierarchical.
People can volunteer for tasks they want (I've done so) and you usually get it provided it's not a promotion or would involve the company spending any money training or equipping you. When it comes to getting out of work folks do the passive aggressive mess up then I won't have to do it anymore, it will get dumped on someone else and they will have no say. I have been dumped on. If you are a patronage hire with connections in the company you are likely able to shed the work you do not want.
There is zero discussion of career paths, no mentoring, top down only evaluations, opposition to any process improvements, no employee involvement in goal setting, no town halls, no suggestion box, no system improvements (we have an old DOS based program), and open job descriptions are written in a way to exclude internal applicants.
ApatheticNoMore
8-10-18, 8:36pm
saying I'm not going to work on x, wow prima donna much? I can't imagine that working out well, and the places it works out well are not places you want to work at (where prima donna's are getting their way - oh no you really don't want to work there).
So don't say what you won't work on because maybe nobody else wants that work either and they are paying you for it afterall. However one can ask for a lateral transfer if they want to do another role and can make the case, or mention that they would like to work on a, b, c or move into doing more work in a, b, c. This may or may not work depending, but it's more the thing where they worst they can say is "no" and yes some places they will say "no".
Rachel,
If the decision is to continue in your current position for X number of years, there may be some ways (both straightforward and devious) to improve your work life:
Amend your role so as to do more of what you enjoy and find intrinsically rewarding, and to do less of the other job activities.
Manage stress more effectively. (Do people at work encourage/practice Nonviolent Communication "NVC"?)
Improve the aesthetics of your individual workplace, your commute (audiobooks?, able to stop at a gym/indoor track before/after work?)
In my experience, it was an improvement to buy a skipping rope that I stowed in a bottom desk drawer and I used 1-2x per day instead of a "coffee break" at that time.
"Amending my role" is an interesting concept. I have in the past just quietly stopped doing some of the more odious or ridiculous tasks, been scolded for it, but not fired. Perhaps a bit of scolding is a reasonable price to pay for not doing some tasks that are counter-productive and non-rational, regardless of whether the higher-ups can see it that way. I wouldn't advise this strategy for a person beginning a career, but for someone who is in the final pages of the last chapter it could work.
Love the jump rope idea! Now all I need is a thing called a...what is it...a coffee break? Not sure I've heard of that.
We have vague standards. Anonymous people are invited to write in their thoughts about the person being evaluated. The higher ups then select out the worst things, add their own nasty digs, and call it "helpful feedback." This is literally how our job evals are done. I'm not making it up.
saying I'm not going to work on x, wow prima donna much? I can't imagine that working out well, and the places it works out well are not places you want to work at (where prima donna's are getting their way - oh no you really don't want to work there).
So don't say what you won't work on because maybe nobody else wants that work either and they are paying you for it afterall. However one can ask for a lateral transfer if they want to do another role and can make the case, or mention that they would like to work on a, b, c or move into doing more work in a, b, c. This may or may not work depending, but it's more the thing where they worst they can say is "no" and yes some places they will say "no".
Saying flat out "No" in my workplace is a great way to get shown the door. Quiet non-compliance is more what people do if they don't like certain parts of the job. The higher-ups actually model this behavior themselves.
I am feeling better about being able to retire eventually. I found out that Social Security when looking at your 35 top years of earnings adjusts the older years for inflation.
Also 2017 was my 31st year of paying into the system, so assuming I am not laid off and work continuously by the end of 2021 I will have 35 years paid in, no years with $0 earnings to drag down my average.
Sounds good, Yppej. It's nice when you see the light at the end!
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