View Full Version : Trump, Putin, US, Russia....
So.......
What do y'all think about this summit and press conference?
I've never seen anything quite like it myself.
I admit that in my Vermont hermit state I have not paid that much attention, but it seems it was a press conference only Jaranka and Donald Jr could love. Certainly didn't bolster support in his own party.
Teacher Terry
7-16-18, 6:05pm
Just when you think he can not possibly be more of a moron he reaches a new low. Unbelievable!
gimmethesimplelife
7-16-18, 6:14pm
Gotta confess that I've been out of the 85006 and out of town for two days and have just returned. I was (mostly) unplugged from the mainstream media and the Internet and I didn't even bother with the newspaper......so I'm not up to speed on this one and I'm wondering will I just get all riled up if I find out what you'all are speaking of? I'll think about getting up to speed, though I'm wondering with Mr. Trump if sometimes you are just better off not knowing...….Rob
He rounds off his trip--after insulting our allies on tape, then denying it, carping about the cost of NATO, boasting about telling Teresa May how to handle Brexit, and treating the Queen like some minor annoyance--by fawning over Putin and publicly disparaging our intelligence community. A real tour de force. I thought the idea that he could publicly shoot someone and get away with it was hyperbole, but clearly he has the Russian GRU behind him and he's untouchable. All those little suckups in Congress are probably afraid if they stand up to him they'll be treated to a polonium sandwich or a novichok-spiked cocktail.
If I were Mueller, or anyone involved in the investigation, I would be very, very careful.
I am aghast. Sticking fingers (or more accurately, throwing Starburst candies) at our allies, and sucking up to dictators. Throwing your own country under the bus. Believing someone who executes his enemies over your own intelligence. Shameful and traitorous imo. I understand why people voted for him, but I can't understand anyone who still supports this guy.
Malcolm Nance, a (Republican) retired cryptologist and foreign policy analyst who's written a couple of ominous books on the subject of Russian hacking and the ongoing assault on our system of government opines that time is running out to set this right. He says he's genuinely afraid of the outcome. And he doesn't strike me as a cowardly man.
gimmethesimplelife
7-16-18, 6:39pm
I am aghast. Sticking fingers (or more accurately, throwing Starburst candies) at our allies, and sucking up to dictators. Throwing your own country under the bus. Believing someone who executes his enemies over your own intelligence. Shameful and traitorous imo. I understand why people voted for him, but I can't understand anyone who still supports this guy.I've been speaking to folks on my phone tree since my above post and apparently Mr. Trump has created quite the stir in the 85006 with his trip to Britain (due to his behaviors there - I understand he pushed and muscled his way into sitting in Winston Churchill's armchair in a disrespectful pose? If it's true I'm aghast due to the lack of respect for an ally that has enough respect for human life that it's citizens are worth access to socialized medicine, no fleeing to another country necessary as so many in America are forced to just so the wealthy can hoard yet more wealth) and due to his summit with Putin.
Honestly, as I've said many times before, there was hardly any support for Trump in the 85006 and this continues to be true......and what's really uplifting is that when I'm on the bus going to and from work (I work in another zip code, just to be clear) I hear others bashing Trump beyond my neighborhood. This gives me some hope for 2020....maybe the downward slide can't be reversed and America and the bulk of it's people will be victims of the Trump Presidency for years, but at least maybe in 2020 it can be halted and maybe if enough Democrats are elected this Fall the slide can be slowed...….let's hope so, anyway.
The New Yorker ran a long article recently making suggested connections between strange situations based on information publicly shared to date. The Trump-Putin meeting and end result was almost predictable. Anyone else read the New Yorker article?
I am not feeling more outrage than normal, because it is not shocking to me that Trump would say these things, given previous comments of his.
gimmethesimplelife
7-16-18, 7:44pm
Alright then.....I've gotten up to speed a bit on this, Trump's latest quagmire of insanity and it actually seems as if some Conservatives are pissed off at him too and there are those on BOTH sides of the aisle (though more Democrats is what I am gathering) calling his behavior at the summit treason. Interesting......though treason to me is such a cheap word when you get right down to it. I've always considered it treason that the lives of American citizens are not worth socialized medicine - treason to human rights and human dignity, though not treason to those who cash in on this lack.
My point? Many would disagree with me on this, and because of this, treason to me is a very shape-shifting and cheap word (whereas to others it's a very firm, line in the sand, black and white concept). I would hazard to guess that Mr. Trump does not see his behavior as treason......wonder how this is going to play out for him going forward? I would even agree it's a bit hypocritical of those in the 85006 who would call Trump's behavior treason as many of those who might say this are not especially pro-American anyway, which really dilutes the word treason in this case.
Interesting times we live in, no? Rob
Republican bigwigs were supposedly outaged after Charlottesville too. I think it is all talk.
At some time or another T has demonized or verbally debased a lot of decent Americans, politicians on both sides of the aisle, leaders of allied nations that have fought next to us in more than one war, and our neighbors on the north and south. I've never heard him say a disparaging comment about Putin. Some thing is wrong with this.
At some time or another T has demonized or verbally debased a lot of decent Americans, politicians on both sides of the aisle, leaders of allied nations that have fought next to us in more than one war, and our neighbors on the north and south. I've never heard him say a disparaging comment about Putin. Some thing is wrong with this.
He seems to really relate to people who can kill with impunity--Kim Jong Un, Duterte, Putin...They're "strong," don't you know.:0!
Williamsmith
7-16-18, 9:49pm
If one would exercise a modicum of historical perspective, it would temper any claims of an impending apocalypse at the hands of Donald Trump.
mschrisgo2
7-16-18, 9:50pm
Really, why would anyone have expected him to behave appropriately? He has shown over and over that he flat refuses.
If one would exercise a modicum of historical perspective, it would temper any claims of an impending apocalypse at the hands of Donald Trump.
You're right, of course. Whenever I start listening to alarmists like the aforementioned Malcolm Nance, I'll just calm myself by thinking of Caligula and Vlad the Impaler. So much better now.
Teacher Terry
7-16-18, 11:50pm
My mom said that her German grandpa was convinced that hitler was Germany savior. When he got the German newspaper about hitler invading Poland he grasped his chest, had a heart attack and died. My mom was 10.
Williamsmith
7-17-18, 3:11am
4:30am April 12th, 1861
At least once a year, I have dinner with John Brennan and James Clapper, and a whole bunch of other interesting folks I used to work with. I think treason is afoot,
https://imgur.com/TcDzUV4.jpg
Williamsmith
7-17-18, 5:33am
The words traitor and patriot are being wrecklessly bandied about by all sides. It’s hard to tell if the media is independent or just an arm of the intelligences. At least you are honest about your allegiance.
And my dad thought Bernie Sanders might have trouble getting elected if it became widely known that he went to Russia on his honeymoon with his first wife. But Russophilia is no longer a vice.
The words traitor and patriot are being wrecklessly bandied about by all sides. It’s hard to tell if the media is independent or just an arm of the intelligences. At least you are honest about your allegiance.
I, and my wife (photo left), have worked with the US intelligence community for many decades now. We both have great faith in the non-partisan wisdom of the folks who keep us safe in our beds. (Even if my first thesis was very politely asked to not be published...)
Ultralight
7-17-18, 6:08am
I, and my wife (photo left), have worked with the US intelligence community for many decades now. We both have great faith in the non-partisan wisdom of the folks who keep us safe in our beds. (Even if my first thesis was very politely asked to not be published...)
Photo left?
Somewhere, Reagan is weeping.
Photo left?
See his post #20.
Ultralight
7-17-18, 6:41am
Somewhere, Reagan is weeping.
It seems like Reagan has really fallen out of favor among the GOP.
It seems like Reagan has really fallen out of favor among the GOP.
Not this right-wing reactionary running dog. I miss the cold war and I miss the Gipper.
Williamsmith
7-17-18, 7:31am
Others are better at positing the reality of US - Russian relations than I am. Admittedly just a dumb retired public servant residing in a rusty state.....but I’ll share some opinions which interest me and have a hint of truth about them.
There is an organized program in place to “manage the perceptions” of the American people. Using fear and misinformation to frighten the populace into a mental state that is easy to manipulate.......this is nefarious when speaking of narrowing opinions meant to support economic policies toward third world states meant to effect regime change.
This is down right dangerous when meant to mold opinions when attempting to turn the populace against the Commander In Chief and dredge up support for a renewed Cold War with Russia. At a minimum it will cost us in expanded debt spent by the military industrial complex on development of new weapons systems. This money will necessarily never reach the social infrastructure that is being starved to death. And it could lead to an actual military confrontation with frightening consequences.
A question is, can the US continue to find countries willing to invest in its debt so it can continue its military spending or has Russia become a better technical source for people like the Saudi Arabians to purchase military wares. Putin is tighter than a tick on a hound with his people. And Russians have never been more satisfied given the hardships they have had to endure in the past.
Trumps nationalism and interest in tariffs to boost American industrialism would seem to expose the US to inflationary tendencies. This would have a disaterous result on the debt. And it would cause “hardships” The likes of which our current population has never been exposed.
Perhaps we do need “intelligence” people to guide us across the treacherous landscape. But like Lincoln’s dealings with southern traitors.....everything is said and done for calculated effect. I don’t mind being hooked now and again but not all the way up to the sinker.
Ultralight
7-17-18, 7:41am
Others are better at positing the reality of US - Russian relations than I am. Admittedly just a dumb retired public servant residing in a rusty state...... Why not the same humility about global warming science? haha
Williamsmith
7-17-18, 8:30am
Why not the same humility about global warming science? haha
With respect to the topic at hand....according to the latest propaganda, it would seem that the Russians will get me long before global warming does. Interestingly, Putin has acknowledged the need to address the effects of climate change. He should get brownie points for that.
Putin has acknowledged the need to address the effects of climate change. He should get brownie points for that.
That would make him a better EPA head than Scott Priutt was.
Did the Cold War with Russia ever really end? Gorbachev in his era tried. It failed because the population didn't choose that option or were not prepared for the consequences or whatever.
It seems to me that the US public is being asked which option they prefer? What are they being offered? Realistically and based on stats, US jobs have been lost largely due to automation by US/global corporations and that is accelerating. There is no quick fix for that. Please advise me of what has been offered over the past 1 1/2 years to change that? By anyone?
The national debt and world debt is totally out of control when considering government (national, state/province, municipal) all pensions are underfunded making the odds of a peaceful retirement for most a huge challenge in a decade or two. How will the populace be informed?
To conclude, I believe that the communication of the leaders to the US populace is the most important it has ever been. If it is manipulated in any way by outside countries, every US citizen should be deeply concerned. What is ultimately chosen is not as important as being able to choose. Do you agree?
People continually speculate about what it is Putin has on Trump that makes Trump so servile. The pee tape is one oft-cited possibility, but that may be because it's so easy to make jokes about.
I think the much more likely explanation is money. Trump has never given much indication that he feels embarrassed by his disgusting sexual behavior. But I think he's very, very psychologically invested in his self-image as a billionaire.
The Russians must have a ton of evidence about Trump's finances, since it looks like he's been largely bankrolled by oligarchs for the past two decades. Nevertheless, I don't think Trump would even be embarrassed by proof he's been laundering money for the Russian mob. The dirty little secret he's terrified the world might learn is that he's not only not rich, he may in fact be broke. That would tear out his fragile sense of self-esteem by the roots.
Yep- push for the taxes to be investigated, push for investigations and revelations of money laundering and ties to our enemies.
I think the much more likely explanation is money. Trump has never given much indication that he feels embarrassed by his disgusting sexual behavior. But I think he's very, very psychologically invested in his self-image as a billionaire.
The Russians must have a ton of evidence about Trump's finances, since it looks like he's been largely bankrolled by oligarchs for the past two decades. Nevertheless, I don't think Trump would even be embarrassed by proof he's been laundering money for the Russian mob. The dirty little secret he's terrified the world might learn is that he's not only not rich, he may in fact be broke. That would tear out his fragile sense of self-esteem by the roots.
All the speculation on why Trump is paying all cash for anything to do with his 3 golf courses in Iceland, Scotland? There was mention of Russian money. He's never paid cash for anything till this.
Teacher Terry
7-17-18, 11:46am
I really hope that both trump and pence are gone soon.
All the speculation on why Trump is paying all cash for anything to do with his 3 golf courses in Iceland, Scotland? There was mention of Russian money. He's never paid cash for anything till this.
Money laundering is involved somehow, and has been for years, I would guess. I agree that sexual peccadilloes are a minor issue--Putin must have something much more compelling in his pocket.
I'll bet Putin would just love to "help with the investigation". He could find out how much we know and the methods of our own information gathering.
My speculation is that T is trying to cover up shady business deals that he or someone in his immediate family has made with Russia. He is going to have to squirm awfully hard to avoid some long term backlash on this one.
And yet his approval rating is still in the forties...
Williamsmith
7-17-18, 1:01pm
And yet his approval rating is still in the forties...
I know! It’s the craziest thing!
And yet his approval rating is still in the forties...
Based on the first chapter of Fire and Fury in which Michael Wolff reports that the Trump camp was more surprised than anyone that he actually won--none of them wanted to win, including Trump, and especially Melania who cried when he won, I have a theory.
How many of you guys know the plot of The Producers? The broke accountant and producer hatch this plot to talk rich investors into investing in a play that's sure to be a big flop. So they write and produce a show SO INTENTIONALLY BAD they expect that it will close in one night, and they get to keep the money.
Problem is, their show, Springtime for Hitler, is a big hit.
So this is what happened to Trump. He rolled the dice to get publicity for the next stage of his entertainment career, and it spun out of control, so he decided to do whatever possible to make people believe that he would be the worst president ever. So he stages the most politically incorrect campaign ever. He leaks the Entertainment Tonight video. He insults parents of soldiers. Who, he reasons, would vote for me now? And they did. So now he's desperate. He just wants to get back to Trump Tower, Trump golf courses, and Mar-a-Lago and enjoy his golden years. This whole President thing is a nightmare for him! But the most he can hope for now to make that happen really fast is impeachment.
Remember that truth is stranger than fiction.
I think there's a lot of truth to this.
My take is that he might not have expected to win, but Putin called in his chips, rigged the election to swing three critical states for Trump, and the rest is history. Trump is doing Putin's bidding--which is to disrupt, disrupt, disrupt. Putin can't contain his glee as Trump tells the G7 to go to hell, throws Asia into chaos by embracing North Korea, flinging South Korea under the bus, and institutes a bunch of tariffs likely to move even more jobs out of the country. He is fomenting toxic nationalism and picking fights with Mexico and Canada. I can't imagine how he could do any more damage to our government or to the world--short of starting WWIII--while Putin looks on approvingly. I guess there's evidence Brexit was another of Putin's schemes; he must be very proud.
Williamsmith
7-17-18, 2:02pm
I think there's a lot of truth to this.
My take is that he might not have expected to win, but Putin called in his chips, rigged the election to swing three critical states for Trump, and the rest is history. Trump is doing Putin's bidding--which is to disrupt, disrupt, disrupt. Putin can't contain his glee as Trump tells the G7 to go to hell, throws Asia into chaos by embracing North Korea, flinging South Korea under the bus, and institutes a bunch of tariffs likely to move even more jobs out of the country. He is fomenting toxic nationalism and picking fights with Mexico and Canada. I can't imagine how he could do any more damage to our government or to the world--short of starting WWIII--while Putin looks on approvingly. I guess there's evidence Brexit was another of Putin's schemes; he must be very proud.
If only we had a leader like......God Damn I’m the Putin Man!
https://youtu.be/6Ya-FGHdBso
I know! It’s the craziest thing!
Not really. It’s just an indicator of how successful the fox news state media has been at convincing his supporters that up is down and good is bad. But even they flinched yesterday. In the long run this sutuation will be one for the history books. In the same way that retroactive support for the iraq war is much lower than actual support was at the time, so too will lots of the current desperate suporters deny that support once the whole story comes out.
This man needs to be removed from office ASAP. Too bad his replacement would be Pence.....but still 'probably' better than the madman in charge.
Trump did exactly what I predicted he would do......which is to say one thing in Russia, then something different back in the U.S. It's becoming more and more clear to me that Trump lives his life as his father's son, kow-towing to people he considers above himself, and mis-treating the people he considers below him (which is everyone else). All of his behavior is a reaction to how his father treated him. People who get rejected, or when their father (or mother) holds out love for obedience and whose sense of self is overpowered, they sometimes go to the opposite extreme of thinking they are better than everyone else (to feel better for their true feelings of inferiority). Unfortunately, after awhile, they start living in that superiority all the time. BUT.......when they are around people they see as powerful (like their father was), they suck up to them.
Yes, it's a sad thing for Trump to have probably had this childhood. But..........we need to remove him from office.
This bullshit that he used the wrong word is just another manipulation of the truth. This man is a pathological liar (to only name a few of this neuroses/psychoses).
What concerns me is all I'm hearing on the news is that "even if he did mis-speak that word"..... There's absolutely no believing that he mis-spoke. Why aren't people screaming "He's lying again!!!"
What has this country come to, that we have this mentally ill man in power? For the sake of everyone......Republicans and Democrats, he needs to be taken out.
No one who watched his press conference with Putin could possibly believe he misspoke in Helsinki.
It was also telling that he left out the line that referenced bringing "anyone involved in that (Russian) meddling to justice," part of the statement obviously written by his handlers.
gimmethesimplelife
7-18-18, 10:03am
This man needs to be removed from office ASAP. Too bad his replacement would be Pence.....but still 'probably' better than the madman in charge.
Trump did exactly what I predicted he would do......which is to say one thing in Russia, then something different back in the U.S. It's becoming more and more clear to me that Trump lives his life as his father's son, kow-towing to people he considers above himself, and mis-treating the people he considers below him (which is everyone else). All of his behavior is a reaction to how his father treated him. People who get rejected, or when their father (or mother) holds out love for obedience and whose sense of self is overpowered, they sometimes go to the opposite extreme of thinking they are better than everyone else (to feel better for their true feelings of inferiority). Unfortunately, after awhile, they start living in that superiority all the time. BUT.......when they are around people they see as powerful (like their father was), they suck up to them.
Yes, it's a sad thing for Trump to have probably had this childhood. But..........we need to remove him from office.
This bullshit that he used the wrong word is just another manipulation of the truth. This man is a pathological liar (to only name a few of this neuroses/psychoses).
What concerns me is all I'm hearing on the news is that "even if he did mis-speak that word"..... There's absolutely no believing that he mis-spoke. Why aren't people screaming "He's lying again!!!"
What has this country come to, that we have this mentally ill man in power? For the sake of everyone......Republicans and Democrats, he needs to be taken out.Cathy, Thank You. Your post here gets the point across in a sane, logical, and easy to understand way. I could not agree with your more and I dread waking up every morning these days in the sense of - What now, what next? What insanity is Trump guilty of now in the last 8 hours or so, given his love of tweeting early morning insanity? Rob
His retraction came across the same way his revised statement about Charlottesville did. Like a petulant, unrepentant child being forced to say he was sorry, even if he wasn't. And just as he was only able to last a couple of days after that before he went back to the whole "rah rah for racism" attitude, I doubt he'll make it through the week before he's right back to "rah rah for russia!" And his America-hating supporters will eat it up.
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