View Full Version : Does spending ever cause you guilt?
gimmethesimplelife
7-16-18, 6:32pm
I just bought a watch for $69 from Stauer. It is a nice watch, solid and sturdy and seemingly well put together and it does look nice on my wrist. I earned the money for this watch and charged it to my debit card so it's paid off with no interest. And it's a watch that is appropriate for my job. All that said, I find myself guilty for having bought it as it's something I don't absolutely need and there are so many people both in the 85006 and all around the US who can't afford such a watch - America deems their lives not worth such a watch for whatever reason.
So I find myself wondering if I should return it......Just don't care for this level of guilt and it's depressing because I suspect that I will always feel this way going forward.....guilt for spending on something I don't absolutely need (though interestingly enough I don't feel guilt about spending money on travel). Does anyone else experience this, just curious? Rob
I find myself guilty for having bought it as it's something I don't absolutely need and there are so many people both in the 85006 and all around the US who can't afford such a watch - America deems their lives not worth such a watch for whatever reason.
What an odd thing to say.
Simplemind
7-16-18, 6:52pm
I am never going to feel guilty for working hard and having the means to purchase what I want.
gimmethesimplelife
7-16-18, 6:54pm
? Sorry, I don't understand your comment, Alan, but with all due respect, I will say the following. Be grateful that you can afford $69 for a similar watch or $69 for whatever it is that you prefer instead - many Americans can't afford this these days, basically so that the wealthy at the top can hoard yet even more wealth. And yes, I do find this very odd that the wealthy have to be this way at the expense of those who toil so that they (the wealthy) may hoard yet more wealth.
Your comment here, though? It's having a positive effect on me in the sense that yep, I'm going to have to return the watch for moral and ethical reasons. I don't live in the 85006 and fit in so well here for no reason, you know? So Thank You for this much and I say this sincerely and with no snark. Rob
You wanted a watch. You earned the money. You selected one you would enjoy.
ENJOY IT!:)
gimmethesimplelife
7-16-18, 6:56pm
I am never going to feel guilty for working hard and having the means to purchase what I want.If only it were that easy for me personally...….but I do get the gist of what you are saying, Simplemind. Rob
So how is you depriving yourself of something that gives you pleasure, reasonably priced and serviceable going to help another? I am missing something here.
I buy stuff with those criteria without regret or guilt. Gimme, I have been poor and struggled at times. I don't waste stuff or money but life to me has never meant deprivation of simple pleasures that last. A $69 watch is one of those.
No. I sometimes feel buyer's remorse for spending money foolishly, but I don't feel guilt. It's not like I'm spending the baby's milk money.
I donate all kinds of useful items (including watches) to thrift stores to assuage said remorse. :~)
Really, self-flagellation is of limited use, IMO.
ApatheticNoMore
7-16-18, 7:09pm
Yes, but though I have a lot of conscious reasons for many things, including simple living, it's mostly goes back much further than that. It goes back to childhood and how I was raised. So yea there is some kind of inner register on what a lot of money is or what wasting a lot of money is and it gets triggered.
Will I spend money on quality if it costs more? IF I can afford it yes. And really WITHOUT GUILT, because buying something I was going to anyway but better quality really doesn't trigger guilt as I know this is actually much better (environmentally etc.). But yea there is a money threshold for guilt of some sorts especially buying things I wasn't going to anyway.
I have become incredibly anxious buying cars. Ha thank heavens I've never bought property I guess! But yes ... those are super big ticket items so going to be triggers, but not the only things. Simple living though hardly pure, and hardly perfect, really does fit who some of us are in the world better.
Depressing, eh well guilt and a certain temporarily low mood (I think depression is an accurate term, but real short term and very directly triggered by guilt) are definitely linked for me.
Yes, I do feel guilty sometimes, or foolish.
Wait till you are older Rob, like me, and you won't be able to see the numerals on a watch without reading glasses. Now I just use my cell phone to tell time.
guilt for spending on something I don't absolutely need
So, seriously, when does the guilt stop? When you are down to one pair of underwear you wash nightly so you can wear it the next day with your one shirt and one pair of pants? Do you rue the day you bought oatmeal with sugar and cinnamon already in it instead of the plain variety? Will you reduce posting on SLF because you no longer have Internet access unless you're sitting behind one of those communal-use PCs at the library? If you return the watch, will you give the $69 to someone in "the 85006" whom you deem to have less than you do -- and hope they don't spend it on a watch?
If, as others implied, you were spending money on a watch when you should have been spending it on food for your dog or cat or on gasoline to get to work, then you should feel guilty that you're not meeting obligations you've already made to others. If you didn't, however, is $69 spent on a useful well-built watch really more frivolous a purchase than anything else you can buy?
Guilt? Nope. We own our primary home and a cabin in the mountains. No mortgages. Saved $ for 17y to buy the car of my dreams.
We support multiple local organizations monthly and have for many many years.
We worked damn hard and are very responsible with our income.
I don't understand having guilt over a $69 purchase?
gimmethesimplelife
7-16-18, 7:50pm
So, seriously, when does the guilt stop? When you are down to one pair of underwear you wash nightly so you can wear it the next day with your one shirt and one pair of pants? Do you rue the day you bought oatmeal with sugar and cinnamon already in it instead of the plain variety? Will you reduce posting on SLF because you no longer have Internet access unless you're sitting behind one of those communal-use PCs at the library? If you return the watch, will you give the $69 to someone in "the 85006" whom you deem to have less than you do -- and hope they don't spend it on a watch?
If, as others implied, you were spending money on a watch when you should have been spending it on food for your dog or cat or on gasoline to get to work, then you should feel guilty that you're not meeting obligations you've already made to others. If you didn't, however, is $69 spent on a useful well-built watch really more frivolous a purchase than anything else you can buy?Wow....Thank You SteveinMN…..I get your point and I agree with you - your post very much made sense to me. I will keep the watch, yes, and I will think over what you have posted at greater length. Thanks again for your thought-provoking post. And I agree - there comes a point where the guilt is ridiculous. Rob
iris lilies
7-16-18, 7:58pm
Yes. For example, I spent too much money in one exhibit I entered in last weekend’s flower show. I am embarassed to say how much! Ugh.
But today, because that was still bugging me, I added up all costs of all 7 exhibits and came up with an average of $10 each, so that isnt so bad. And I reminded myself that my most beautiful entry in the design show was $0, big fat zero, because I used a container from my basement and flowers from my garden and the brilliance of my own mind, haha!
There is always a little voice in my head that says “these competitions are about imagination and artistic talent. They are not about spending $$$ .” But sometimes ya gotta spend the money to get the results you want.
I have these dialogs with myself all the time.
? Sorry, I don't understand your comment, Alan, but with all due respect, I will say the following. Be grateful that you can afford $69 for a similar watch or $69 for whatever it is that you prefer instead - many Americans can't afford this these days, basically so that the wealthy at the top can hoard yet even more wealth. And yes, I do find this very odd that the wealthy have to be this way at the expense of those who toil so that they (the wealthy) may hoard yet more wealth. ...
I don't get the money hoarders--I spread mine around with wild abandon.
We need to overhaul our system so that billionaires can't buy senators and congresspeople who are supposed to be representing all of us, and influence votes to take away services that make life better (or bearable) for the rest of us. I doubt that will happen in my lifetime.
IL, your artistic endeavours give you and others joy and positive pride in the power of creativity. I will fight with great vigour any attempt to make life an experience of self-flagellation or desperate poverty or denial of art of multiple forms. Yes, it costs money. Hoarding a work of art for purely personal enjoyment is questionable but sharing is a gift.
ApatheticNoMore
7-16-18, 8:13pm
I don't think it's a problem of where it stops, if you have your own inner compass. It's like "oh so you are buying a new shirt, where does it stop, when you have 1000 pairs of shirts?" Unless you are a shirt hoarder it usually doesn't actually work that way. Nor does it with a little guilt. Is guilt the most helpful emotion? Not really. And it's maybe a strong word, but it's the probably closest to how it feels.
I think with watches most people do rely on cell phones to check the time, but if you don't do that for whatever reason and aren't around clocks etc.. Or is it just decoration? Well I own a few pieces of jewelry so I guess I can't judge some decoration.
I understand shopping as compensation for working (hard) (at a job one no doubt dislikes) but .... it's not worth much really anyway ... not even as compensation really (it's kind of just a stress response one gets in irrespective of any real benefit). But sometimes I do buy things just because I like them too.
Rob, for what it's worth, I feel guilty when I spend money but I think for me it is early conditioning by a very frugal mother.
I saw a documentary about Holocaust survivors and one of the women talked about buying whatever she wants--jewelry, etc.--that if she wants something, she buys it, she was determined not to suffer anymore in life and if she wanted something, she would buy it. Here's a trailer to the movie, well worth you watching it:
https://vimeo.com/57316737
Rob, since I am pulled to asceticism (I wanted to be a nun for a while and Thomas Merton, Thoreau, and Diogenes are among my heroes), and since I do make a very decent living, I should probably say I feel guilty for buying things that others can't afford, but I have to say, I don't. As Jane said, I may be angry with myself for a foolish purchase, but I feel we are entitled to the fruits of our labor.
A $69 watch is not a Rolex. You can afford it, it has utility for you, and so why not own it? If I think about one of my heroes, Dorothy Day, she used the proceeds of a sale of a book she wrote to purchase a little cottage on the shore in Staten Island. I don't ever remember reading that she felt angst about that purchase, and I've read all of her books and notes. But she dedicated her life to helping others less fortunate. And her cottage was not extravagant. Just like your watch isn't.
? Sorry, I don't understand your comment, Alan.....I'm not big on conspicuous consumption but I do enjoy quality. About 30 years ago I bought my current (and only) watch, a Seiko I admired and gladly paid a couple hundred $'s for. It has served me well for all this time, remaining extremely accurate, maintains a timeless look and fits my wrist like a glove while being worn every single day.
My brother has a different take on watches, he's probably gone through a dozen or so $30 Timex's during the same period. I'm not sure why America deemed him not worthy of a better watch at a lower long term cost, but I'm pretty sure he'd think I was crazy if I told him that was the case.
Teacher Terry
7-16-18, 8:39pm
I don’t ever feel guilty. I prefer a watch to looking at my phone and sometimes I forget my phone.
ApatheticNoMore
7-16-18, 8:40pm
Rob, for what it's worth, I feel guilty when I spend money but I think for me it is early conditioning by a very frugal mother.
exactly conditioning from parents and grandparents, but in the end I think they had good values in some things, in the end I don't mind inheriting many of their values. I just temper their values with my own questioning and rebellious streak so that the very harsh edges are a little less so.
iris lilies
7-16-18, 9:07pm
IL, your artistic endeavours give you and others joy and positive pride in the power of creativity. I will fight with great vigour any attempt to make life an experience of self-flagellation or desperate poverty or denial of art of multiple forms. Yes, it costs money. Hoarding a work of art for purely personal enjoyment is questionable but sharing is a gift.
ok, that s a good way to look at it.
All that said, I find myself guilty for having bought it as it's something I don't absolutely need and there are so many people both in the 85006 and all around the US who can't afford such a watch - America deems their lives not worth such a watch for whatever reason.
This is a handmade FP Journe watch, with a very special and significant movement. It cost me ~$90,000. It represents months of labor for the man who made it. I do not feel guilty owning it at all.
https://i.imgur.com/U1nmsz6.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ZpBXo33.jpg
It is but one small part of my effort to support a dying art:
https://i.imgur.com/Rjzb0oo.jpg
Al Gore spends more in jet fuel each year than my whole collection, probably.
My wife bought me a nice watch years ago. It’s in a box somewhere, I haven’t worn a watch in years. between my phone, cars, and clocks on walls I generally can tell what time it is. And knowing what time it is generally is not a big deal to me anyway.
So yes, spending money on a watch is just crazy. You could help someone from the 85006 buy a bag to prepare to flee. What are you thinking?
Simplemind
7-16-18, 10:03pm
I love my watch which my husband bought me when we first got married. That said, for 26 years my job required me to log the time of every task I performed and every call I took, even a bathroom breaks. Believe me when I say that I have an excellent sense of time and can pretty much guess what time it is (within a couple of minutes) without a watch.
I got sick of cheap watches that didn’t last long. Spent $125 on a dive watch. Pretty aqua and silver, too! I can wear it in the pool or around water without worrying about it. Thing is tough. I’ve accidentally worn it diving!
I subscribe to the saying - buy once, cry once.
A $69 watch is not a Rolex.
What's wrong, exactly, with a Rolex? They make plenty of stainless steel, utilitarian tool watches.
My daily-wearing watch is a Rolex Milgauss, a special model made to resist very high levels of magnetism, as might be found in a high energy physics lab and a few other specialized places. I've worn it for decades now, it's been keeping time just fine, and it has survived in places that would have absolutely destroyed a "normal" watch. It also looks sort of boring and bland. I think they still make the model, and it sells for probably $7k or so.
https://i.imgur.com/49eRR9b.jpg
And yes, I do find this very odd that the wealthy have to be this way at the expense of those who toil so that they (the wealthy) may hoard yet more wealth.
Seems to me that anyone following the YMOYL plan is by definition hoarding wealth. Does their hoard cause you grief somehow?
Returning your $69 watch for moral and ethical reasons - some random questions:
- how much will it cost to travel back to the store to return it? Or how much shipping will be involved?
- how much value/carbon cost to the environment/... will be lost/incurred because of the merchant needing to repackage, or simply throw out, the returned item?
- what about the wages of the workers who built that watch, transported it, sold it?
How much wasted time and capital and income will be involved in your virtue-signaling?
I see little point in watch-shaming or watch-bragging. Tempus fugit, no matter what.
The important thing is that we make Alan buy everyone a watch so they know America loves them and wants them to be happy.
I see little point in watch-shaming or watch-bragging. Tempus fugit, no matter what.
The important thing is that we make Alan buy everyone a watch so they know America loves them and wants them to be happy.
I don’t know that I can watch-brag. All the best ateliers send me samples every year for my advice.m I’m just a cog in the machine.
What's wrong, exactly, with a Rolex? They make plenty of stainless steel, utilitarian tool watches.
Nothing wrong with a Rolex. They're beautiful watches, no doubt. But if Rob is feeling guilt, $69 seems like a grain of sand compared with $50k. And I'm not saying he should feel guilty about spending 50k for a watch either, if that's what he wants to do, although I would be very surprised if he bought a Rolex. But if you're going to feel guilty about "extravagant" purchases, don't waste your angst on $69. That's all I'm saying. Buying a Rolex will challenge and/or contradict some people's value systems, and not others. To each his own.
My wife one said to me “Rolex only has a market because men can’t wear tiaras”.
Williamsmith
7-17-18, 9:11am
Spending only causes me guilt when there is more debt associated with the purchase than assets to pay it off immediately. Right now I value the amount of savings I have that is immediately accessible over paying off the mortgage or the car. They can repo the car, I have another that is paid for. The mortgage will be paid off when the wife retires. Everything else is purchased with cash in hand. I’ve wanted to purchase a certain guitar for a long time but the fact that I don’t need it negates my purchase. If I bought it, I’d feel guilty based on the relative good I could do with that amount of money put toward another cause. I can justify smaller purchases of things that give me pleasure but are an investment that I can expect to keep their value or increase in value.
:~)
My wife one said to me “Rolex only has a market because men can’t wear tiaras”.
Teacher Terry
7-17-18, 11:51am
Someone has a watch addiction:))
I've spent considerable time over the past few years trying to determine between "needs" and "wants."
Sometimes after a purchase, I will ask myself if it was a true need or a want.
I am not saying you should not have bought it, I am just saying this has become my thought process. :)
I don't feel guilty at all about buying things that I can afford and that I will make good use of.
DH and I recently sunk a pretty large chunk of cash into new touring bikes from REI. We will ride them for 10-20 years, hundreds or even thousands of miles per year, so the cost-per-mile is pretty reasonable. Due to limited stock, we had to go to three different REI stores to get them (the one we went to first did not have our size in stock, had to travel out to two suburban stores to pick them up). Between the different stores we interacted with 7 different staff people (two bike section staff at first store, one cashier; one bike section staff at second store, two bike section staff and one cashier at third store). All gave us excellent customer service and the bike section staff taught us lots of useful stuff about the bikes. At least a small portion of what we paid for the bikes is going to support people working in jobs they enjoy. REI also gives a significant part of its profits back to its users (10% member dividend annually on non-sale items) and to environmental causes.
Buying stuff that we value and will make use of help keeps the economy rolling.
messengerhot
7-18-18, 12:31am
There were times that it cause me guilt that I purchased expensive furniture or things that I found out not worthy enough or did not last for a long time.
gimmethesimplelife
8-10-18, 9:22pm
Rob, for what it's worth, I feel guilty when I spend money but I think for me it is early conditioning by a very frugal mother.
I saw a documentary about Holocaust survivors and one of the women talked about buying whatever she wants--jewelry, etc.--that if she wants something, she buys it, she was determined not to suffer anymore in life and if she wanted something, she would buy it. Here's a trailer to the movie, well worth you watching it:
https://vimeo.com/57316737Thank You, finally got around to watching this. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
8-10-18, 9:27pm
My wife one said to me “Rolex only has a market because men can’t wear tiaras”.You know, I think there's something to that......even as a gay man, this particular gay man (me) would take the Rolex over the tiara any day...…..Rob
gimmethesimplelife
8-10-18, 9:31pm
This is a handmade FP Journe watch, with a very special and significant movement. It cost me ~$90,000. It represents months of labor for the man who made it. I do not feel guilty owning it at all.
https://i.imgur.com/U1nmsz6.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ZpBXo33.jpg
It is but one small part of my effort to support a dying art:
https://i.imgur.com/Rjzb0oo.jpg
Al Gore spends more in jet fuel each year than my whole collection, probably.Bae, I think it's great that you have all these watches, and I understand that you have earned them, great and no snark here. My only question is this: How many other Americans can realistically afford such a collection of high end watches? Not many I dare say...….Rob
PS Furthermore, to drive my point home, in the 85006 few and far between would be anyone who could even afford one such watch.....you'd have to go to the Coronado neighborhood to find a recent home buyer from a higher end zip code who recently bought in due to the proximity to downtown to find someone who could afford a high end watch. I'm not sure if in the Coronado neighborhood anyone could afford a 90K watch...and this is the "best" the 85006 has to offer. My point? You are speaking of a separate reality - your reality is real, yes, I don't take that from you - but your reality has no place in the 85006. It's like speaking Greek here, or maybe Swahili or something else difficult for English speakers to grasp. Rob
Teacher Terry
8-11-18, 1:12am
I can’t relate to this at all. All I can think about is how many poor people could have better lives versus having watches.
I can’t relate to this at all. All I can think about is how many poor people could have better lives versus having watches.
I often think that way when I see ads for high-end pocketbooks. In this case, bae has a point: it's almost a museum collection of a type of craftsmanship of days gone by. While I agree that it's mind-boggling to think what the money behind that collection could do for poor people, bae clearly has the money to freely choose to keep this collection at no detriment to his own financial stability--plus, this may or may not be relevant but he has already said that he has made a considerable amount of money in his working life--most of which has been given away, presumably to charities. I'm all for social justice and I'm definitely a democratic socialist, but not to the extent that that I feel we should psychologically raid bae's coffers and imagine it traded in for food or shelter for those in need. That's a little scary.
As for me, I have often asked myself the question "If I had millions of dollars, would I ever buy myself a $10,000 purse?" While I can never say never, the answer is, I can't now nor am I likely to in the future, ever justify buying a purse for 10k, or a white T-shirt for 3k, or a watch for 50k.
I'm all for social justice and I'm definitely a democratic socialist, but not to the extent that that I feel we should psychologically raid bae's coffers and imagine it traded in for food or shelter for those in need. That's a little scary.
As for me, I have often asked myself the question "If I had millions of dollars, would I ever buy myself a $10,000 purse?" While I can never say never, the answer is, I can't now nor am I likely to in the future, ever justify buying a purse for 10k, or a white T-shirt for 3k, or a watch for 50k.
Yes, I agree about the first part being quite scary, when anyone does it. The folks across the street from me rent a trailer and look at us with our house and two cars and storage shed and we have so much more than they do, judging by how they live. Do they have the moral right to say, hey, those folks wealth should be liquidated and given to us? I don't think these examples are really any different. The Bolsheviks did this, and that did not end very well.
But I can't help thinking that it's exactly the same thing, really, when one says, the poor are virtuous, the rich are evil, therefore take from the rich and give to the poor. And we get to define who is rich, who is poor, exactly how much someone can have before they are an enemy of the people.
ApatheticNoMore
8-11-18, 11:11am
I don't feel guilty for reasons of there being too many poor people (though there are) at all, that's a social problem not my problem. It's mostly just about well wasting my money but also environmental impact (though I am just one person and matter little, so that's also a social problem of course, but I see my contribution much more directly there). But on that front, I have my weaknesses and flaws too, plenty, so ... there is that.
I'm in no position to save the poor. I never will be that rich, that that makes any sense at all. Pay taxes sure, when they go to social welfare I don't object (other things they go to well ..). And take them when needed. In fact advocate it when it makes sense (like I'm thinking about a retired person - 60s on Social Security - who is running out of money. And the very first thing I'd advocate (well after cutting spending that is easy to give up and knowing that we all need a little slack in the budget) is to see what senior services are available they can qualify for like senior housing. Only if that isn't enough do I think they should consider if there are ways to work again - they haven't worked in years and years so again why that option doesn't make much sense).
To help seniors I would get rid of the out of pocket medical costs and have only one part of Medicare that covers everything. Right now there are plans A, B, C, D, F and G. It is a confusing mess.
We live in a country where a millionaire can preach socialism between retreats to his dacha on Lake Champlain. Isn't there room enough in our thinking for more sophisticated concepts than zero sum redistribution ?
Surely Bae's baubles could be confiscated and sold in some hard-currency country for the benefit of the proletarian zip codes, but wouldn't the supply of Baes and high end watches soon dry up?
Given the bloody, brutal, stupid history of the various flavors of socialism in the century just past, shouldn't we be a little more skeptical of the "democratic" version currently on offer?
catherine
8-11-18, 12:01pm
Given the bloody, brutal, stupid history of the various flavors of socialism in the century just past, shouldn't we be a little more skeptical of the "democratic" version currently on offer?
The bloody versions were Communist in nature and completely different than Democratic socialism. I haven't seen any bolshevik takeovers in Scandinavia or other countries where healthcare is provided equitably to all citizens. I'm not skeptical of their successes at all. I'm envious.
Teacher Terry
8-11-18, 12:12pm
I don’t think anyone should take Bae’s stuff and sell it to help the poor. I was just relating what my mind thought and not what I thought should happen.
Teacher Terry
8-11-18, 12:13pm
People buy all sorts of ridiculous expensive stuff and I don’t think it should be taken away. I just personally can’t relate on any level.
bae also mentioned that the crown -- umm -- jewel of his collection (the one for which he provided the picture) provided many months of income for the craftsman that made it. So it's not like this expensive device just materialized from the ether. Many people beyond the jeweler had work as a result of this watch being assembled.
I routinely spend the equivalent of $16-18/pound for coffee beans. Seems like a ton of money to someone else who would be happy with Yuban. But I can tell the difference. And I'll skimp on other things before I'll skimp on my daily coffee. I do it partly because I am lucky enough to have the money to do it and partly because I know the roasters and know they're providing a better-than-living wage on their farms in Costa Rica. I and my fellow customers are keeping 2-3 coffee farmers and a family here in the States working and earning by buying this coffee. At what $$ point does a purchase become a "stupid luxury"?
I routinely spend the equivalent of $16-18/pound for coffee beans. Seems like a ton of money to someone else who would be happy with Yuban. But I can tell the difference. And I'll skimp on other things before I'll skimp on my daily coffee. I do it partly because I am lucky enough to have the money to do it and partly because I know the roasters and know they're providing a better-than-living wage on their farms in Costa Rica. I and my fellow customers are keeping 2-3 coffee farmers and a family here in the States working and earning by buying this coffee. At what $$ point does a purchase become a "stupid luxury"?
I'm with you on that. I do my best to find fair trade, shade-grown, Rainforest Alliance, bird-friendly coffee. And each of those attributes tacks a couple of bucks a pound to the cost. But I can't stand the idea of the Amazon clear-cut and workers exploited to enable me to get my daily coffee fix.
ApatheticNoMore
8-12-18, 1:31am
If you do it for pro-social benefit, to improve the conditions of others and/or the planet and it indeed does in some small way, it's obviously not any traditional definition of luxury. Of course one could have mixed motives buy organic for their health and because they find it tastes better and also because it's better for people and planet - but the former does not negate the latter, a true win-win.
I remarked just today though that is kind of a good thing I drink tea, because even the organic fair trade stuff seems cheaper than such coffee :)
The bloody versions were Communist in nature and completely different than Democratic socialism. I haven't seen any bolshevik takeovers in Scandinavia or other countries where healthcare is provided equitably to all citizens. I'm not skeptical of their successes at all. I'm envious.
Give them time they’re working on it. Every virus mutates to adapt to its circumstances. We will get to see whether a soft-power bureaucratic superstate can endure.
Give them time they’re working on it. Every virus mutates to adapt to its circumstances. We will get to see whether a soft-power bureaucratic superstate can endure.
That may be true; look how the virus of naked greed has mutated in this country--we're within striking distance of an oligarchic coup.
I don’t think anyone should take Bae’s stuff and sell it to help the poor. I was just relating what my mind thought and not what I thought should happen.
Maybe the people who sold the stuff to Bae gave the money to the poor! :)
Maybe the people who sold the stuff to Bae gave the money to the poor! :)
The fellow from whom I have purchased most of my collection has used his profits from his business to help raise his two children and put them through college, while maintaining a relatively modest lifestyle in a very-high-cost-of-living area of California.
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