View Full Version : Bad news from the Homeland.......
gimmethesimplelife
7-24-18, 8:17pm
As much as I bash the United States, I'm not playing nice in the sandbox if I give Austria a free pass on something horrible that has taken place there. And horrible it is.
A representative of the new right wing government recently elected into power in Austria stated that he wanted Jews who wanted to buy Kosher meat to register with the government to be able to do so. Yes, this was actually said - and to give Austria some credit, the conservative Austrian People's Party shot this idea down - and quickly, perhaps realizing what a PR nightmare would ensue and also due to Austria's rise to some position of power in the EU due to it's stances on migrants/immigration.
I have to say that I don't care for the anti-Semitism..........and that fact that back in the day I would have been a candidate for a free train ride to my extermination at one of the camps. This is just insane - could someone actually believe that in this age of social media (used as much in the Homeland as it is in the US - I can say this from having visited Austria back in 2015 and having stayed with family and actually interacted with Austrians not paid to be polite to me in a tourist setting) that such would not be downloaded at the speed of lightning? This politician is just as dense as many US police are in thinking that he was immune to social media......proof positive that it's not only US Police that have this cognitive lack, or rather the emotional maturity to both realize and accept that the playing field has changed and so has the balance of power to some degree.
I have to say that I am chilled to the bone that an Austrian national would actually say something like this in public, especially a politician. Nice mountains, great scenery, social welfare that Americans can only bitterly dream of as in America human life is not worth similar - wonderful required paid time off, an extra month's pay every year as a Christmas bonus - not a bad deal at all but it does come with some darkness. I'm not playing nice in the sandbox if I don't post this. I even took the Austrian flag down in the living room and put up a Mexican flag instead as I'm so disheartened by this statement. Rob
iris lilies
7-24-18, 10:09pm
Yes, someone already posted this story on one of your many threads about The Homeland.This politician is saying this because he knows he has some support among Your Compatriots.
gimmethesimplelife
7-24-18, 10:29pm
Yes, someone already posted this story on one of your many threads about The Homeland.This politician is saying this because he knows he has some support among Your Compatriots.Don't drop dead of shock here, IL...….ready to be amazed? You are right, there are those Austrians who believe in and support this way of thinking. I am related to a few such people that I have cut out of my life - I will have nothing to do with them (being told that being gassed for being gay is/was acceptable? I don't care how much better overall your citizenship is than mine, that statement is not going to fly with me, no way, no how. Neither is being OK with the extermination of over 6 millions Jews and disabled people)...….there is some unfortunate support for this unacceptable inhumane line of thinking.
The good news though is that thankfully, not all Austrians are like that. The family I am close to and am in touch with on a regular basis is very much against the Holocaust and is against the radical right's leap to power in Austria and is against Jews having to register with the government for any reason. So there is some good here but yes, there is bone chilling darkness. It would much better serve my narrative were this not the case but I'm not going to lie and like with most of the rest of my life, I'm going to tell it how it is with overall disregard for the consequences (unless they are extreme, such as homelessness or a Holocaust like situation).
I do find it ironic however that I still maintain there is much America could learn from Austria in how to humanely run a society (overall, this conservative Austrian politician obviously does not fit this bill) but yet is the birthplace of none other than Adolf Hitler. Like so many other areas of life, plentiful irony exists in this. Rob
If you are truly “chilled to the bone” every time some fringe political hack spouts off, then the solution to global warming may be staring us in the face.
Teacher Terry
7-24-18, 10:58pm
Rob, I may have posted about this before but I have been to auschwitz and it was a moving experience. You can literally feel the people’s pain and feel their souls. When I got to the room with people’s hair, eyeglasses, shoes and k suitcases I got super hot even though it was cold and stripped down to my tank top. I ran to a window and stuck my head out to breathe. I had a panic attack but was determined to complete the tour. I wish everyone could experience this. It might help people be more compassionate.
ToomuchStuff
7-25-18, 12:58am
Did you tell your relatives to pack a bag?
Yes, there are some unrepentant diehards in Europe. My family cringed a few years ago when we got a letter from a German relative complaining after all these years that Czechoslovakia "stole" their Suedetenland. (Not the entire subject of the letter, but just mentioned in passing with the assumption we would agree.)
The good news though is that thankfully, not all Austrians are like that.
But all cops are like "that".
gimmethesimplelife
7-25-18, 8:55am
But all cops are like "that".Every last cop? Even I don't buy this, hard core anti police brutality activist that I am. I look back at the Nazi Era, as this has been discussed on this thread, and there were documented instances of SS officers running across Jewish children and letting them go - there were cases of Nazi officers refusing to detain victims and letting them go to live off in the woods and not sending them to their deaths in the camps. I can't believe that every last cop is bad. Overall, however, my experience in both the 85006 and in America at large is that the stereotype exists for a reason and is definitely earned.
Some good news, though? The family of Justine Damond, who wes brutally, illegally, and Unconstitutionally murdered in cold blood by the Minneapolis, MN PD? They are suing for $50 million - I believe they deserve much more than that - I'd say $400 million and a fully paid life in another country and an 100% overhaul of the Minneapolis PD with anyone employed by this PD fired and a 100% new crew brought in as a life saving measure to save lives of Minneapolis residents. I don't see anything less as a worthy settlement for the cold blooded murder of Justine Damond.
And I've veered off topic yet again.....Not all police are like this, I still maintain this, but far too many are. Activists such as myself will always be busy here unless we move on to one of the better countries where there are actual checks and balances against the powers of the police - built in checks and balances and not social media, effective though social media can be against this type of officer. I've been calling the Minneapolis PD every day since the disclosure of the pending $50 million lawsuit - on my phone tree all have made a commitment to call every day so as to pass along how much the Minneapolis PD is hated and despised and how the public will stand up to their sheer evil and how $50 million isn't even a start to a settlement for this cold blooded murder done via pension accruing government thugs. Rob
PS....when you get down to it, really, what's the difference between a typical US police officer and this schmuck in Austria who thinks Jews should register with the government if they want to buy Kosher meat? I'm not seeing much difference if any at all and I'm glad I started this thread as I had not made this connection myself until right now.
PS....when you get down to it, really, what's the difference between a typical US police officer and this schmuck in Austria who thinks Jews should register with the government if they want to buy Kosher meat? I'm not seeing much difference if any at all and I'm glad I started this thread as I had not made this connection myself until right now.
If you can’t tell the difference between a typical police officer and a Nazi, it could be that your thought processes bear some similarities to the latter.
If you can’t tell the difference between a typical police officer and a Nazi, it could be that your thought processes bear some similarities to the latter.
Bingo!
gimmethesimplelife
7-25-18, 9:45am
If you can’t tell the difference between a typical police officer and a Nazi, it could be that your thought processes bear some similarities to the latter.My life experience in lower-income America has taught me to agree to disagree with you. I have not interacted with you to the extent that I have with others, LDAHL, I'll give you that but my suspicion? You don't live in the same America as I do though legally and geographically it is so........for the most part we don't live in the same country. For better or worse I suspect this just is - and in my country what you have posted is not the reality nor will it play here or go over well or not been seen straight through by the majority of the population. So it is. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-25-18, 9:48am
Bingo!As I've posted in response to you before, Alan, with all due respect - truly we don't live in the same country. At this late date at the age of 51, I would not want to live in your country.....realistically it would be a horrible fit for me in many ways. Would you care to live in my country? No snark here, it's an honest question though I won't hold it against you if you choose not to answer. Rob
My life experience in lower-income America has taught me to agree to disagree with you. I have not interacted with you to the extent that I have with others, LDAHL, I'll give you that but my suspicion? You don't live in the same America as I do though legally and geographically it is so........for the most part we don't live in the same country. For better or worse I suspect this just is - and in my country what you have posted is not the reality nor will it play here or go over well or not been seen straight through by the majority of the population. So it is. Rob
I have trouble accepting that you can slime tens of thousands of honorable people on the basis of some alternate reality you claim to inhabit. How is that different from any other bigot justifying his hatred for a broad group based on his individual experience?
I have enough faith in my fellow man to believe my objection to your “cop = nazi” assertion would not be “seen through” in any zip code.
Teacher Terry
7-25-18, 11:03am
I have lived all over the country and police departments really vary. I think a attitude develops on what is acceptable or not. I have lived where they have been awesome and where I live now not so much. Of course every department has good cops and bad ones. It is a tough job. Also some sick people go into the profession because they get off on having power over people. You can never paint a entire group of people with a broad brush and be accurate.
gimmethesimplelife
7-25-18, 12:58pm
I have trouble accepting that you can slime tens of thousands of honorable people on the basis of some alternate reality you claim to inhabit. How is that different from any other bigot justifying his hatred for a broad group based on his individual experience?
I have enough faith in my fellow man to believe my objection to your “cop = nazi” assertion would not be “seen through” in any zip code.Methinks everyday life in the 85006 AND also many other similar US zip codes would be a really shocking eye opener for you, then........Rob
iris lilies
7-25-18, 1:06pm
Methinks everyday life in the 85006 AND also many other similar US zip codes would be a really shocking eye opener for you, then........Rob
Maybe, if I could afford to live there. As we saw earlier in the year, you poor people in the 85006 sure have some high end digs.
gimmethesimplelife
7-25-18, 1:08pm
Maybe, if I could afford to live there. As seyermined earlier in the year, you poor people in the 85006 sure have some high end digs.It is true that parts of the 85006 are gentrifying but my part of the 85006 has not as of yet and is not as crazily priced as some of the rest of this zip code. Anything near the Coronado neighborhood for example is going to be very pricey regardless of the zip code said property is attached to. Rob
Methinks everyday life in the 85006 AND also many other similar US zip codes would be a really shocking eye opener for you, then........Rob
I would be shocked indeed to learn large numbers of people in any part of the country harbored the kind of ill-founded hatred displayed here. Fortunately, that seems to be limited to an unhappy few.
gimmethesimplelife
7-25-18, 1:42pm
I would be shocked indeed to learn large numbers of people in any part of the country harbored the kind of ill-founded hatred displayed here. Fortunately, that seems to be limited to an unhappy few.Yowsa.....the 85006 would be culture shock for you. How much culture shock it would be depends on how much you are capable of seeing things through the eyes of others and how much you can put yourself in the shoes of others. I don't know you IRL so I can't really say how much culture shock there would be for you. But, here's an interesting tidbit: Culture shock is a two way street. I often to this day find myself eavesdropping on conversations when I am in "better" zip codes - on secret shops, in restaurants, on those few occasions I voluntarily enter a "better" zip code.....and I find myself sometimes shocked at what I hear in conversations of those who don't know struggle or who have not known it recently or who live in denail of past struggles.
As to hatred....no, just cold blooded reality and cold blooded assessment of the citizenship as it really is....no exceptions, no excuses, and no equivocation. Just reality. This aspect of US citizenship truly is third world in nature and completely unacceptable given the hypocritical way America tries to set itself up in the world/wishes to be seen by the world. Ill founded? I invite you to watch video after video after video of police brutality, and should you have the emotional strength to do so, I invite you to learn of the sorry spectacle of the cold blooded illegal murder of Justine Damond by the Minneapolis PD. This could serve as a starting point to learn the truth of American police.....from there you can springboard to many non high profile illegal murders commited by the US police every day all around this country. Trust me, once you learn all this - no way will you ever see America the same way again nor will you ever have much praise for it. Many don't seem to have the emotional strength to face these realities - something I don't understand one bit as to me facing such is like breathing air - automatic. Whatever.
At any rate, no ill-founded hatred here. Just the results of the society I live in and from years of comparison shopping the citizenship. Rob
And after all that comparison-shopping, here you are.
I don’t think there all that many people anywhere who view other zip codes as enemy territory and scour the internet for incidents to fuel their outrage. Who believe packs of pensioned predators prowl the precincts for prey for no apparent reason.
If there were, we’d be like Rwanda back in the day. You use the word “reality” a lot when I think “perception” might be a better fit.
Teacher Terry
7-25-18, 2:03pm
Didn’t President Kennedy say something like don’t ask what your country can do for you but ask what you can do for your country.
Didn’t President Kennedy say something like don’t ask what your country can do for you but ask what you can do for your country.
I think it was more like "collude with Russia if you don't like the terms of your healthcare plan".
Didn’t President Kennedy say something like don’t ask what your country can do for you but ask what you can do for your country.
Terrible marketing, if citizenship is evaluated as a sort of benefits package.
gimmethesimplelife
7-25-18, 2:09pm
Didn’t President Kennedy say something like don’t ask what your country can do for you but ask what you can do for your country.I've always respected President Kennedy though he was before my time - I was born in 1966 after his assassination. I've never really cared for this quote though - to me it's like OK....i'm willing to give society this much/engage in society to this level. What's the reward for me for doing so? Socialized medicine to justify any loyalty to begin with? (Kennedy's own country flunks on this metric). How much paid time off can I expect when working full time, and how much does the government enforce said paid time off (Kennedy's own country flunks this metric, too, as America is one of the few countries in the world where paid time off is actually not legally required). Is higher education going to be a long term financial nightmare, or is college essentially funded by taxes and not rolling the dice in Vegas in regards to nightmare debt levels to make bankers yet more wealthy?
I could go on and will if someone asks me to but I believe I've made my point clear. Being: There's at all wrong in contributing to a given society but there's also nothing at all wrong with expecting something in return.....this is where Kennedy's quote does not work for me. Rob
Terrible marketing, if citizenship is evaluated as a sort of benefits package.
Well, the sort of evaluation I see from the sage-of-Austria and speaker-for-the-85006 strikes me as about as useful as debating which is the best model of Ferrari to buy when you can't afford a bus ticket.
None of these other cool countries will let in random outraged Americans unless they show up on the doorstep with boatloads of capital, or have a spouse in the country, or a firm job offer in a desired profession and sponsorship, and so on and so on. I've checked.
Now, if you are a *real* refugee, that's a different story. Last time I looked, different factions in the 85006 weren't slaughtering each other in the dead of night with machetes, so that's probably not an available immigration path.
I've never really cared for this quote though - to me it's like OK....i'm willing to give society this much/engage in society to this level. What's the reward for me for doing so? Socialized medicine to justify any loyalty to begin with?
REG: All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?
XERXES: Brought peace.
REG: Oh. Peace? Shut up!
Teacher Terry
7-25-18, 2:25pm
Since no country is perfect things may change slowly but when citizens work towards change it eventually happens. Some day we will have universal health care. We have a lot to be thankful for here. Sure some countries are better but plenty are much worse.
gimmethesimplelife
7-25-18, 2:28pm
Since no country is perfect things may change slowly but when citizens work towards change it eventually happens. Some day we will have universal health care. We have a lot to be thankful for here. Sure some countries are better but plenty are much worse.Thank You for your sane take, TT, and for understanding that better countries do exist out there. I hope to see universal health care in the US in my lifetime but I just don't know.....but then whoever would have thought that same-sex marriage would ever become legal in the US? So who knows? Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-25-18, 2:32pm
Terrible marketing, if citizenship is evaluated as a sort of benefits package.I agree, this was terrible marketing on Kennedy's part looked at in the light of society in 2018 given the vast inequalities in the US that are only growing worse as time goes on. In Kennedy's era, people actually got raises that kept up with inflation and there was not the level of terror over getting sick that exists today in America - a terror that is only seeping upwards through the social classes so that the wealthy can hoard yet more wealth. This is a very different society today with much less faith in and/or hope for the future overall and in light of today's society, I'd agree this quote is terrible marketing, yes. In Kennedy's time, maybe not so much an inappropriate quote that could lead one to ponder what was he on when he said it? Gotta understand though that Kennedy's era was not the brutal fear based one we live in now. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-25-18, 2:33pm
Terrible marketing, if citizenship is evaluated as a sort of benefits package.When you get right down to it, what is citizenship for everyday people beyond a benefit package of sorts? Rob
When you get right down to it, what is citizenship for everyday people beyond a benefit package of sorts? Rob
I guess that’s one of those “if you have to ask you’ll never know” questions.
My belief, and I could well be wrong, is that a meaningful life is more about the responsibilities you accept than the benefits you demand from others.
When you get right down to it, what is citizenship for everyday people beyond a benefit package of sorts? Rob
In such condition, there is no place for industry; because the fruit thereof is uncertain: and consequently no culture of the earth; no navigation, nor use of the commodities that may be imported by sea; no commodious building; no instruments of moving, and removing, such things as require much force; no knowledge of the face of the earth; no account of time; no arts; no letters; no society; and which is worst of all, continual fear, and danger of violent death; and the life of man, solitary, poor, nasty, brutish, and short.
there was not the level of terror over getting sick that exists today in America
I don't know about the validity of your claim. Cancer was a death sentence. Many folks with heart attacks didn't make it. Many of today's manageable conditions didn't have such happy results, and people died. When you were hospitalized, there wasn't much that could be done, either diagnostics or treatments. Many of the the pharmaceuticals we have now didn't exist. Life expectancy was a decade shorter. Medicare and Medicaid didn't even exist until the mid 60's. I'm not sure Kennedy's time was this nirvana you think it was, particularly for the poor.
Here's an interesting article I found about that: https://www.ssa.gov/history/pdf/HealthCareEarly1960s.pdf
iris lilies
7-25-18, 3:50pm
...None of these other cool countries will let in random outraged Americans unless they show up on the doorstep with boatloads of capital, or have a spouse in the country, or a firm job offer in a desired profession and sponsorship, and so on and so on. I've checked.
.
I am not sure about that for Rob and Austria. We probably talked about this and
I dont remember the answer, but his mother may retain Austrian citizenship. That may give
Rob a leg up into The Homeland. I base this on DH’s status as the son of a Swiss citizen. There are probably similarities.
Perhaps Rob will expand om this point the next time he swings around to this thread to park a disparaging remark about the United .states.
gimmethesimplelife
7-25-18, 4:13pm
I am not sure about that for Rob and Austria. We probably talked about this and
I dont remember the answer, but his mother may retain Austrian citizenship. That may give
eob a leg up into The Homeland. I base this on DH’s status as the son of a Swiss citizen. There are probably similarities.
Perhaps Rob will expand om this point the next time he swings around to this thread to park a disparaging remark about the United .states.Hi IL....no disparaging remark necessary. About Austria....I don't have a leg up as you say....Austria does not allow for dual citizenship and when my Mother accepted this citizenship in 1969, she had to unwisely gave up her Austrian citizenship to do so my easy way in does not exist. My Mother to this day kicks herself verbally at least three times a day for giving up citizenship in the Homeland but on the other hand, there is no way she could have known how the future in America would play out. It sure would have made life a lot easier had she been able to return to her people and take me there too once her divorce to my Father took place. But what is, is.........Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-25-18, 4:19pm
I don't know about the validity of your claim. Cancer was a death sentence. Many folks with heart attacks didn't make it. Many of today's manageable conditions didn't have such happy results, and people died. When you were hospitalized, there wasn't much that could be done, either diagnostics or treatments. Many of the the pharmaceuticals we have now didn't exist. Life expectancy was a decade shorter. Medicare and Medicaid didn't even exist until the mid 60's. I'm not sure Kennedy's time was this nirvana you think it was, particularly for the poor.
Here's an interesting article I found about that: https://www.ssa.gov/history/pdf/HealthCareEarly1960s.pdfI agree with you as to advances in medical/health care and it's true that cancer was a death sentence back then, too. And we did not have the array of mental health medications that we have today, nor some of the procedures that are commonplace today. In fact I might be dead today - I'm not sure, perhaps someone with more medical knowledge than me can chime in here (?) - due to my liver infection I had November/December of 2016....antibiotics did exist in Kennedy's time but not all of the ones available today and I don't know if the procedure to drain my liver of infection existed back then, either. So, my point Herbgeek is that I agree with some of what you say, yes.
OTOH....health care did not cost what it does today, either, and there was less chance of being out on the street due to the costs of an illness.....insurance covered more then, too, and deductibles were not what they are now. People in general were not one or two paychecks away from homelessness then (with exceptions, yes, I'll give you that, but such was not as widespread as it is now).......the very idea of getting sick did not cause the financial terror then that it does now. So I believe we both have points here.......Rob
iris lilies
7-25-18, 4:24pm
Hi IL....no disparaging remark necessary. About Austria....I don't have a leg up as you say....Austria does not allow for dual citizenship and when my Mother accepted this citizenship in 1969, she had to unwisely gave up her Austrian citizenship to do so my easy way in does not exist. My Mother to this day kicks herself verbally at least three times a day for giving up citizenship in the Homeland but on the other hand, there is no way she could have known how the future in America would play out. It sure would have made life a lot easier had she been able to return to her people and take me there too once her divorce to my Father took place. But what is, is.........Rob
That is quite intolerant of The Homeland to require that she choose a country.
The United States does not demand that unconscionable choice. My cold blooded view is that Austria’s requirement about citizenship is immoral.
iris lilies
7-25-18, 4:34pm
I ...In fact I might be dead today - I'm not sure, perhaps someone with more medical knowledge than me can chime in here (?) - due to my liver infection I had November/December of 2016....antibiotics did exist in Kennedy's time but not all of the ones available today and I don't know if the procedure to drain my liver of infection existed back then, either. So, my point Herbgeek is that I agree with some of what you say, yes.
Do you mean the liver infection that landed you in the hospital for two weeks? The infection that created a hospital bill probably around a quarter of a million dollars? The hospital bill that the taxpayers picked up because the socialzed medicine system here, the one you constantly disparage, actually worked for you?
Is that the liver infection you are talking about?
If so, oh, okay—carry on.
gimmethesimplelife
7-25-18, 4:43pm
I guess that’s one of those “if you have to ask you’ll never know” questions.
My belief, and I could well be wrong, is that a meaningful life is more about the responsibilities you accept than the benefits you demand from others.Here you have in one sentence neatly summed up why this country is such a bad fit for me.....and it's the kind of thing that I believe that though we have never met, so I don't know you, that you will not understand. Here goes an effort at explaining that which is blatantly obvious to me, anyway.
In a better country with extensive social welfare, it's not seen as "demanding benefits from others" - it's seen as reaping that which you have been into the pot for and that all are eligible for. Very different thinking - radically different thinking from how America would prefer you think - and to me common sense which I have understood well before the age of 14......it's just basic common sense to me. So no, I will never get it or understand Kennedy's quote in your context. To do so would be disrespectful to the collective and I don't want to be like that or think like that. To do so is to be complicit with the insane degree of inequality in this country and I won't be guilty of being complicit with such. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-25-18, 4:45pm
Do you mean the liver infection that landed you in the hospital for two weeks? The infection that created a hospital bill probably around a quarter of a million dollars? The hospital bill that the taxpayers picked up because the socialzed medicine system here, the one you constantly disparage, actually worked for you?
Is that the liver infection you are talking about?
If so, oh, okay—carry on.Yes, the liver infection that Medicaid picked up all costs for. Why this should so rile you I don't understand....in Austria YOU TOO would qualify for taxpayer subsidized care at this level and everyone, repeat everyone, would consider this perfectly normal and acceptable regardless of your assets and income. If you were to honestly look around the world, America really is an outlier as to access to health care for all. Sorry, I can't support this........I just can't. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
7-25-18, 4:50pm
That is quite intolerant of The Homeland to require that she choose a country.
The United States does not demand that unconscionable choice. My cold blooded view is that Austria’s requirement about citizenship is immoral.I'm not entirely in disagreement with you here. Much of my life would have been less stressful and of a higher quality had I been able to immigrate to Austria and I'm not fond of the fact that Austria does not allow for dual citizenship. I can't fault you on this one, IL.
That said, I do have one issue with the US (though once again I do appreciate that the US allows for dual citizenship) - the US is very nasty to those with dual citizenship who travel on passports from whatever other citizenship they hold.......I have a hard time understanding this/not resenting this - but OTOH this country does allow you to retain citizenship in a country with socialized medicine to mitigate the downside risk of this citizenship so here I'd say maybe it's better to suck up the insanity and play the game. I'll give you that much. Rob
iris lilies
7-25-18, 5:11pm
Yes, the liver infection that Medicaid picked up all costs for. Why this should so rile you I don't understand....at
Nice try avoiding the real point.
What “riles” me is your constant bashing of social welfare programs in the U.S. while sucking them down.
The program we have for socialied medicine saved your life. You admit it in the above post.
To spell it out, you are a hypocrite. You cant have it both ways as in
1) there is not socialized medicine to take care of me
2) I used a quarter of a million dollars worth of health care services, paid by taxpayers
You are ungrateful.
That is quite intolerant of The Homeland to require that she choose a country.
The United States does not demand that unconscionable choice. My cold blooded view is that Austria’s requirement about citizenship is immoral.
The US has demanded this choice, both of my mother and of me. The law has since changed.
iris lilies
7-25-18, 5:16pm
The US has demanded this choice, both of my mother and of me. The law has since changed.
Ah, I stand corrected Mr wikki did not serve me well. I guess we are, afterall, living in an immoral place!
edited to add: scanning hits from the Google machine, there are a L
OT of articles that give the erroneous fact that dual,citizenship is allowed in the U.S. but maybe it is one of those things where details matter, like perhaps the specific country is important. (?)
Now it is coming back to me, we did talk about this issue in the past, but I forgot the outcome other than it has some complexity.
what country are we talking about here, and how recently did the dual thing change?
They actually gave me a workaround. Although they had me sign the front of my certificate of citizenship application that I renounced all other citizenships "without mental reservation" they told me to write on the back that I did have a mental reservation in that I did not want to renounce my Canadian citizenship. They took pity on me because it was not my fault my uninformed and hapless parents failed to register my birth abroad.
My mother became a citizen during the Cold War and having been born in what had after she left become East Germany did not want that citizenship anyways. Little did she know one day Germany would reunite as a free country. But she forgot all her German and is thoroughly and happily Americanized.
Here you have in one sentence neatly summed up why this country is such a bad fit for me.....and it's the kind of thing that I believe that though we have never met, so I don't know you, that you will not understand. Here goes an effort at explaining that which is blatantly obvious to me, anyway.
In a better country with extensive social welfare, it's not seen as "demanding benefits from others" - it's seen as reaping that which you have been into the pot for and that all are eligible for. Very different thinking - radically different thinking from how America would prefer you think - and to me common sense which I have understood well before the age of 14......it's just basic common sense to me. So no, I will never get it or understand Kennedy's quote in your context. To do so would be disrespectful to the collective and I don't want to be like that or think like that. To do so is to be complicit with the insane degree of inequality in this country and I won't be guilty of being complicit with such. Rob
America has no preferences as to what you think. America is not a person.
I’m not especially worried about being disrespectful of the collective because the collective is not a person either.
The problem I see with a collectivist, entitlement worldview is that it seems to create such envy, resentment and anger in people. You essentially place yourself at the mercy of larger forces. That can’t be pleasant.
Teacher Terry
7-25-18, 7:07pm
My DIL became a citizen a few years ago but also kept her Polish citizenship. Yes she has went back home to visit her parents and use their free medical. However, a year ago she had a tennis ball sized brain tumor that needed a top neurologist to remove it in San Francisco. It was a 14 hour / million dollar surgery. The ACA saved her life. This surgery can’t be performed in Poland.
My belief, and I could well be wrong, is that a meaningful life is more about the responsibilities you accept than the benefits you demand from others.
Rob is not alone in his viewpoint. I had several people criticize me for saying that responsibilities (for debts voluntarily incurred - not being rushed to the ER while unconscious or anything but 100% voluntary debts) should not be accepted, and that individuals should be entitled to benefits in the form of public subsidies for numerous degrees of limited market value. Personally I would rather pay for other people's healthcare which is a matter of life and death.
As I've posted in response to you before, Alan, with all due respect - truly we don't live in the same country. At this late date at the age of 51, I would not want to live in your country.....realistically it would be a horrible fit for me in many ways. Would you care to live in my country? No snark here, it's an honest question though I won't hold it against you if you choose not to answer. RobI'm happy to answer Rob, I spent the first half of my life aspiring to live in your country. I say this with all due respect and no snark, but you've wasted hundreds of posts here talking about class and your allegiance to the lower classes where you've found your identity and which you now refer to as your country. I say wasted because you have no idea what class the rest of us were raised in. When I was in elementary school and spent all my time during spring and summer walking through cotton fields with a hoe that was taller than I was, chopping the weeds which competed with the cotton plants for water and nutrients, or pulling a 6 foot long pick sack which I'd fill with 60 or 70 pounds of cotton that I'd picked one fraction of an ounce at a time in the hot July sun for a penny a pound, I dreamed of living in your country.
When I graduated from high school at 16 and desperately wanted to go to college but couldn't and had to join the military at 17, during the tail end of the Vietnam war, because it was the only available avenue to a better life, I dreamed even more of living in your country.
After getting married and spending years working at minimum wage jobs ($2.85 to $3.00 per hour) and going to evening college, thanks to the GI Bill, while looking for that first career break, I was fixated on someday getting to the point where I was living in your country. But I know now that I was dreaming of the wrong things. Hardship and poverty incentivized me to make my life better through my own efforts, and I eventually did, leaving behind that dream of living in your country in favor of living in mine.
If I had the opportunities you did such as going to college after high school, being supported by a parent and a part time job, I may not have appreciated the opportunities I enjoyed and make no effort to advance beyond entry level, low paying jobs such as you've enjoyed. If I hadn't had to scrimp and save for my entire life in order to purchase my family a nice house in a "better zip code" and instead inherited property from relatives or family friends which I believe you've told us you did, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't appreciate it as much as I do.
If I had lived in your country during my formative years, having opportunities handed to me while being indoctrinated in the belief that my country owed me a reward for my citizenship, I'm certain that I too would be a bitter complainer with an inflated sense of my value. I was absolutely wrong during all those years spent dreaming of living in your country, your country sucks.
Teacher Terry
7-25-18, 9:05pm
Alan, I can’t imagine having to work that hard as a child. I too was young and poor at one point in my life. It is not fun. Some people don’t have the intelligence to improve their situation with higher education and I feel sorry for them. Some people don’t have the ambition to change their circumstances. Focusing on being a victim never helped anyone. Parents can certainly pass down attitudes and beliefs to their children. My parents believed in working hard, helping others and higher education. I am thankful for those values.
iris lilies
7-25-18, 9:14pm
Alan, I can’t imagine having to work that hard as a child. I too was young and poor at one point in my life. It is not fun. Some people don’t have the intelligence to improve their situation with higher education and I feel sorry for them. Some people don’t have the ambition to change their circumstances. Focusing on being a victim never helped anyone. Parents can certainly pass down attitudes and beliefs to their children. My parents believed in working hard, helping others and higher education. I am thankful for those values.
I too am grateful for having healthy attitudes passed down to me. My family has been lucky, silly lucky. But the thing is, we know it.
I suspect the Austrian Avenger never had to run a muskrat trapline in the swamps to make cash when a young kid, and fish for the family’s dinner nearly every day after school. I have some cool road kill recipes too!
Williamsmith
7-25-18, 11:14pm
In my travels in Kentucky, I went into an interesting storefront in a small mountain town. The sign in the door drew my attention....”Blue Lives Matter.” I thought I might be welcome here. It was a relatively unkempt place with handmade items from pieces of used whiskey barrels. There was some fine handiwork being done he said to keep the taxmans kids eating. He said the taxmans kids were eating more and more everyday.
The proprietor was obviously a hard working elderly man, my attention was drawn towards his hands. They were callused, black with charcoal, seemingly the knuckles and joints swelled with arthritis. He bid me a grand welcome only the way southern people usually do and immediately asked where I was from. I told him and I told him what I used to do.
He said he hailed originally from Texas where he was a deputy sheriff for a while. I noticed a sort of shrine to a loacal deputy sheriff on his mantle. End of watch was about five years ago and I saw a wall covered with patches from police departments all across the country. I asked about the tribute to the deputy. He said he was murdered. Somebody threw some bails of hay out on the on ramp to the interstate and waited for him to come along and get out to clear the road. When he did, they shot him with a shotgun in the back. Then when he was on the ground, one of them rolled him over and shot him in the forehead with a pistol so he would know who had taken his life.
I dont know about all the legions of corrupt and brutal police officers.....but I know of one who should be left out of that category. I promised that man I’d mail him a patch as he seemed to not have one from my department.
Teacher Terry
7-25-18, 11:56pm
My father wanted to go to college and be a accountant. He was a smart man. Instead he spent his life at American Motors. He worked on the line and had flat feet he was born with plus horrible skin allergies. Luckily he had a great personality and got along with everyone. He put in his notice but the Vice President asked him why and he told him. He said tomorrow you are a tool grinder in a sitting job. They trained him and he made more money. However, a tool grinder back then had no protective equipment so by 52 had COPD so bad he had to retire. That job sealed his death warrant. I am grateful for him doing what he needed to do and he was a great dad. WS, you did your job with honor and I thank you for that.
Teacher Terry
7-25-18, 11:57pm
Forgot to mention that he spent 4 years fighting in WW 2.
Ultralight
7-26-18, 6:59am
I know I am going to tick off the jingoistic types on here, and annoy the right-wingers in saying this but criticizing the USA -- our nation -- is a good thing. Healthy criticism is good for our nation's progress and development.
But unhealthy criticism -- such that Rob does -- is not helpful. I actually think it is harmful.
The USA needs a single payer healthcare system to have better healthcare outcomes at lower cost, like we see in other first world nations. The USA needs to reduce the military expenditure and shift that money to struggling public schools so the children in all our communities are better prepared for citizenry. The USA needs to grow the EPA some serious teeth to protect the environment and our communities' health.
I could go on. But my point has been illustrated on that front.
Rob's people, gay men, were indeed thrown under the national bus. They were an oppressed people. Think of how gays had to live in the shadows for decades. Think of how the AIDS epidemic was handled. But that does not seem to be Rob's beef with the USA -- and that era is over. Being gay is almost universally accepted in Rob's demonized USA.
While some folks on here might want to tell Rob that his fate and his life's outcomes are totally in his hands, I would disagree with that. The milieu you're born and raised in can either put you at the bottom of the batting order or conveniently give you an intentional walk just before someone else bats your run in.
But here is he deal. Even if you are at the bottom of the batting order you have to do the batting practice, Rob. You have to study the game. You have to practice running the bases. And you have to swing for the fences whenever you're at bat. Eventually you get some base hits and you move up the batter order. You get better at hitting and start knocking a few out of the park. And then your life gets better.
You cannot sit in the dug out complaining and expect to be a good ballplayer.
I grew up in a little shit-town with 238 people in it. Shout-out to bae: My mom made some damn good roadkill rabbit stew! Heck, it was better than a lot of other things she "cooked." haha
When I was a little kid I caught worms in rainstorms and sold them to fisherman on their way to Lake Erie to make a few bucks ("Jake's Nightcrawlers! 85 cents a dozen!")
My parents did not teach me financial literacy. I began teaching myself that at age 33. Late? Oh, yeah, very late. But I still come out swinging every opportunity I get.
So that is my advice to you, Rob. Come out swinging. Some of your life is controlled by the establishment. Some of it is controlled by you. So make the best of what you control.
Teacher Terry
7-26-18, 10:09am
UL, you are so right!
iris lilies
7-26-18, 10:47am
I know I am going to tick off the jingoistic types on here, and annoy the right-wingers in saying this but criticizing the USA -- our nation -- is a good thing. Healthy criticism is good for our nation's progress and development.
I dont want to start out in an antagonistic mode here, but no reasonable person is going to disagree with the idea that “criticizing the USA...is a good thing.”
The devil is in the details.
But unhealthy criticism -- such that Rob does -- is not helpful. I actually think it is harmful.
Of course it is harmful! But far more harmful for the critic than this country. Rob’s is a fringe lunatic point of view that he wallows in. This is borderline in mental health. There are reasons he continues to overpost this drivel and I have my own ideas about why that is.
He considers it “activism” but he passed that goalpost a long time ago to become a one note poster on this website. 95% of his posts are about bashing the country he lives in or thanking people who “support” him. He doesnt contribute here as a place for true community, he uses this website to park his screeds that bolster his own ego.
The USA will stand up through the “cold blooded “ criticisms of the Robs of the world, I am not worried about that.
While some folks on here might want to tell Rob that his fate and his life's outcomes are totally in his hands, I would disagree with that. The milieu you're born and raised in can either put you at the bottom of the batting order or conveniently give you an intentional walk just before someone else bats your run in.
absolutely. Not everyone will move “up” in the social order regardless of opportunity here. And honestly, why should they when their lives are relatively easy? Alan’s extreme poverty as a kid is a situation to get away from. Rob’s “lower social order” lifestyle in his youth through today is pretty cushy. I wouldnt urge Rob to study the game and practice batting because he has a nice life where he is, much of it afforded by the America he hates. He owns real estate in a zip code where 90% of the listings cost more than my house. He has family, friends, health insurance, a money flow. What’s not to like?
It is too bad that he doesnt see that, but to me the worst of it is that he does not respect his good fortune. He even has the good fortune to have ability to move away from America and he chooses not to do it. It is a deliberate choice to stay here and carp endlessly.
....But here is the deal. Even if you are at the bottom of the batting order you have to do the batting practice, Rob. You have to study the game. You have to practice running the bases. And you have to swing for the fences whenever you're at bat. Eventually you get some base hits and you move up the batter order. You get better at hitting and start knocking a few out of the park. And then your life gets better.
You cannot sit in the dug out complaining and expect to be a good ballplayer.
dude, the ball game analogies! Way to be an American!
Williamsmith
7-26-18, 11:14am
I was just disappointed UL couldn’t slip in something about apple pie.....he stuck the Mom and baseball landing perfectly.
iris lilies
7-26-18, 11:15am
I was just disappointed UL couldn’t slip in something about apple pie.....he stuck the Mom and baseball landing perfectly.
Haha!
UL is a True American even though he doesnt like to think he is. :)
One thing that struck me about some of the childhood stories told here is the extent to which I belong to an aristocracy of good fortune. My parents weren’t rich, but my early years wouldn’t have given Dickens much to work with. I have had, I think, to work pretty hard but have been decently rewarded for it. I have an adequate retirement stash in place.
I don’t pretend to be completely self made, but have done enough to take a little satisfaction in the product. I can’t comprehend why anyone lucky enough to be born in the US would have much legitimate reason to be bitter about it. If I have any concerns about our future, it’s that we may fall into the comfortable trap of thinking sacrifing a bit more freedom will get us certain gains in the long run. I think Europe will pay for that in the long run.
I also think that if we allow the personal to become the political we will suffer for it both as individuals and a society. We have only to review this thread to see how that can happen. It’s possible to be an honorable liberal or a despicable conservative, but that is more a question of character than ideology.
I’m a fortunate son of a fortunate land, and benefit from the work and sacrifice of better people than myself. If that’s privilege, make the most of it. Just don’t expect any apologies.
iris lilies
7-26-18, 11:43am
Alan, you are lucky in the brains department,
I have to say. Somehow, genetic material passed feom your parent(s) to you, allowing you to recognize options and to see a way out, to visualize a better life.
I always wonder about that, and how it happens with some kids in a family and not others.
The saying around here in ghetto land some years ago was “they cant do better if they cant see better” so there is always an effort to show kids a lifestyle devoid of drugs, guns, and unwed moms. Exposing them to a world of middle class stability is a good thing, certainly, but few seem to engage with it.
ApatheticNoMore
7-26-18, 12:06pm
The problem with Rob's criticism is it is extremely biased, ok so he criticizes the U.S. healthcare system. Fine, but the argument is never that Mexico has a better healthcare system (it might, it's not usually the poster child, as that country on the northern border is more likely to be, but Mexico's healthcare seems to have improved enough with it's universal healthcare that now it might) but how wonderful Mexico as a whole is, when we know people get killed regularly (not just an ocassional suspicious death spawning a million conspiracy theories, but all the time and known knowns) running for office there. So better overall, I don't know about that ...
Maybe I believe almost everyone ALREADY BATS as best as they can, maybe everyone already bats as best as they can. HOWEVER, several things factor in:
1) they make choices, some of which are based on value systems but set them back economically, a stay at home mother - well that's an economic risk that can go wrong, or caretaking, or merely refusing 60 hour weeks at some point in order to have a life, or taking the job closer even if the one with the commute from hell is more lucrative etc.. People bat as best they can, and often try DAMN HARD, and have virtues to spare and then some, but they try to optimize THEIR LIVES as they see it, not just their economics,that is ONE part of life. It doesn't always work. And then they die homeless in a gutter or something I guess. Or so we would have it. But it's messed up that anyone is homeless.
2) in addition to choices, people are almost always dealing with limitations as well and we don't know what they are. It's like if every 10th batter was blind or something. They might be ignorant and not know much about getting on the world and not even know they don't know, they might be neuro-atypical and it could be harder to fit in many places, they might have severe psychological problems, they might have been severely traumatized. We don't know. And people can't always triumph over every possible obstacle, that's not reality. They might of course have more obvious problems (diseases etc.). So they might be batting with absolutely everything they have, but the blind batter more often misses the ball!
3) for almost EVERYONE it is increasingly hard to even figure out what to do economically as things get increasingly complex, increasingly niche, increasingly expensive in many cases and increasingly more difficult. everyone bats as best they can but in a broadly prosperous society less fall through the cracks than are now, it's like the bats have all gotten much narrower!
4) I don't go into systematic factors like prejudice, yes they exist, but enough is already said on that everywhere.
iris lilies
7-26-18, 12:16pm
The US has demanded this choice, both of my mother and of me. The law has since changed.
Ok, now for specifics please since I am still trying to figure out if Austria is the only Big Bad
Immoral country in this discussion or if the US of A also earns that label.
What year are you talking about when you say “the law has since changed.” What year was your experience?
ApatheticNoMore
7-26-18, 12:32pm
We think other people are ourselves (but maybe running some faulty applications that need fixing). But maybe other people run whole different operating systems, on whole different hardware, maybe they are different machines entirely (like the difference between human brains and computer hardware). Well it's a metaphor, I can only take it so far ...
I do too, even when I say everyone bats as best they can, though I suspect many do, that it's more true than assuming some batters are just not trying.
iris lilies
7-26-18, 12:43pm
We think other people are ourselves (but maybe running some faulty applications that need fixing). But maybe other people run whole different operating systems, on whole different hardware, maybe they are different machines entirely (like the difference between human brains and computer hardware). Well it's a metaphor, I can only take it so far ...
I do too, even when I say everyone bats as best they can, though I suspect many do, in their way.
It is a good metaphor, ANM. There is that.
gimmethesimplelife
7-26-18, 2:05pm
Nice try avoiding the real point.
What “riles” me is your constant bashing of social welfare programs in the U.S. while sucking them down.
The program we have for socialied medicine saved your life. You admit it in the above post.
To spell it out, you are a hypocrite. You cant have it both ways as in
1) there is not socialized medicine to take care of me
2) I used a quarter of a million dollars worth of health care services, paid by taxpayers
You are ungrateful.IL.....I'm completely not understanding you here. Not one bit.
Please let me calmly state that I am grateful for the medical help/intervention that I had during my liver infection a year and a half ago. I have never once complained about the care I received. My issues have to do with the fact that not all Americans are eligible for this type of care as they would be if they held citizenship in any other developed country.....repeat ANY OTHER DEVELOPED COUNTRY. In caps not to be irksome but only because I'm amazed to this day at how brainwashed Americans tend to be and how they let this country off the hook with something that can boil down to life and death - just so the wealthy can hoard more wealth. I'm not down with that nor will I ever be - just to be clear - there is nothing that could ever change my mind on this one. Period.
But I'm for once not talking about me here. Really. I'm talking about my disgust that not all are eligible for the care I received and that for some Americans to this day this is perfectly acceptable. I worry for other people here and not just myself and I have always - and it hasn't been easy, trust me, given the way Americans overall tend to think, which is another reason I'm so into "the 85006" - seen my fellow citizens (sort of) as part of a collective. I know people who believe that American citizens are not worth being considered this way but I'm too much of a humanitarian not to think of others this way.
And I'm not ungrateful. I'm merely fearful of and repulsed by a system in which human life truly is worth so little - do you yourself have a better explanation for the lack of socialized medicine in this country for all - given the fact, once again, that the US is the only developed country in which human life is not worth socialized medicine? There is no ingratitude in asking the hard questions and holding America accountable for this lack.....not that I can see, anyway.
Has this my made my position more clear? Rob
Two things: First, to Rob's point, here is a video about two sisters who both got breast cancer--one had stayed in Canada and had become a US citizen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghh4DcBlxls
Second, I applaud Alan, and anyone, who suffered poverty and worked their way out in a matter-of-fact way, not in a way that cries "poor me."
Third, Rob does get a little reactionary and repetitive when it comes to certain issues. I think if the volume were turned down, the message might be easier to hear.
Fourth, when Rob talks about "his country vs Alan's country" or "the 85006" vs any American zip code, I think the profiling of his community goes beyond poverty and access to services. My interpretation of Rob's complaints is that there are pockets of humanity that are still treated unjustly by the powers in authority. Those people tend to be minorities, non-whites, and females. Rob is just asking us to recognize that, perhaps too stridently.
I feel really lucky to be in this country, and I've lived a blessed life, but I also see a lot of room for improvement. It's great that our political process enables us to do what we can to change it.
gimmethesimplelife
7-26-18, 3:29pm
Two things: First, to Rob's point, here is a video about two sisters who both got breast cancer--one had stayed in Canada and had become a US citizen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ghh4DcBlxls
Second, I applaud Alan, and anyone, who suffered poverty and worked their way out in a matter-of-fact way, not in a way that cries "poor me."
Third, Rob does get a little reactionary and repetitive when it comes to certain issues. I think if the volume were turned down, the message might be easier to hear.
Fourth, when Rob talks about "his country vs Alan's country" or "the 85006" vs any American zip code, I think the profiling of his community goes beyond poverty and access to services. My interpretation of Rob's complaints is that there are pockets of humanity that are still treated unjustly by the powers in authority. Those people tend to be minorities, non-whites, and females. Rob is just asking us to recognize that, perhaps too stridently.
I feel really lucky to be in this country, and I've lived a blessed life, but I also see a lot of room for improvement. It's great that our political process enables us to do what we can to change it.Catherine, hi!
Thank You for your post. I will admit here and now that I can fixate on certain issues (nice way of putting it, no? lol).......I can see where i come across as strident and I can also see your point about turning the volume down. I'll give you that.
And about your third sentence? YES! You get it to some degree. There are indeed pockets of America where citizens are treated unjustly for no real legal reason - pockets of America where heaping helpings of injustice are served on a regular basis. I have ended out casting my lot in such an area as such an area is the only America where I am going to run across a majority of residents who "get it" - who understand where I am coming from in my life experiences in this country. But you really have hit this one on the head and struck the ball way out of the park - it is about much more than poverty and access to services, though this is certainly part of the equation. And I do wish more would recognize this, yes. Thank You for understanding this, Catherine....I really appreciate that! Rob
iris lilies
7-26-18, 4:01pm
Health care is delivered unevenly and sometimes poorly across the United
states. Healthcare is delivered probably less unevenly* and possibly less poorly in
Canada.
This is a pretty general statement I will accept as fact.
i will not accept as fact Bernie sanders’ campaign video to represent The
Healthcare debate. The video is an anecdote. An anecdote is one data point.
* despite known difference amoung provinces.
Ultralight
7-26-18, 5:18pm
I have trouble accepting that you can slime tens of thousands of honorable people on the basis of some alternate reality you claim to inhabit. How is that different from any other bigot justifying his hatred for a broad group based on his individual experience?
I have enough faith in my fellow man to believe my objection to your “cop = nazi” assertion would not be “seen through” in any zip code.
I know two guys who are cops. One has a gay son who he loves and supports. The dude voted for Bernie.
Another one is married to a Puerto Rican woman and has mixed kids.
I am pretty sure the Nazis don't allow gayness or race mixing.
So Rob, how are these cops I know Nazis?
Who is denied health care? My understanding is that if your poor you get Medicare or Medicaid. Otherwise you can just pay for insurance. I thought everyone could just pay for a Obama care plan , and if your income is still on the low side the taxpayers would still pick up some of that.
Do you really believe that you should be taken care of more than this because you live here?
I think that healthcare cost are too high, but i don’t think turning everything over to the government is the answer.
Wasnt the Austrian homeland annexed into Nazi Germany? Wouldn’t that make Austria a Nazi country at the time?
gimmethesimplelife
7-26-18, 5:25pm
Wasnt the Austrian homeland annexed into Nazi Germany? Wouldn’t that make Austria a Nazi country at the time?Yes. The answer to both of your questions is yes. Rob
Health care is delivered unevenly and sometimes poorly across the United
states. Healthcare is delivered probably less unevenly* and possibly less poorly in
Canada.
This is a pretty general statement I will accept as fact.
i will not accept as fact Bernie sanders’ campaign video to represent The
Healthcare debate. The video is an anecdote. An anecdote is one data point.
* despite known difference amoung provinces.
My wife has Canadian relatives, her dad has dual citizenship. He actually joined the US Army during Vietnam. Now it’s been a few years, but both her Grandparents had surgery’s performed at the Mayo Clinic. I’m sure if they thought that the care was the same they would not have paid to come here.
But her relatives do seem to be fine with their healthcare, but they pay quite a bit more in taxes to cover it. Nothing is free.
i even looked into moving there many years ago. Back then I had enough points to be a candidate. But I was just curious, I have really never had a desire to leave the US. It’s been very good to me.
iris lilies
7-26-18, 6:35pm
IL.....I'm completely not understanding you here. Not one bit.
Please let me calmly state that I am grateful for the medical help/intervention that I had during my liver infection a year and a half ago. I have never once complained about the care I received. My issues have to do with the fact that not all Americans are eligible for this type of care as they would be if they held citizenship in any other developed country.....repeat ANY OTHER DEVELOPED COUNTRY. In caps not to be irksome but only because I'm amazed to this day at how brainwashed Americans tend to be and how they let this country off the hook with something that can boil down to life and death - just so the wealthy can hoard more wealth. I'm not down with that nor will I ever be - just to be clear - there is nothing that could ever change my mind on this one. Period.
But I'm for once not talking about me here. Really. I'm talking about my disgust that not all are eligible for the care I received and that for some Americans to this day this is perfectly acceptable. I worry for other people here and not just myself and I have always - and it hasn't been easy, trust me, given the way Americans overall tend to think, which is another reason I'm so into "the 85006" - seen my fellow citizens (sort of) as part of a collective. I know people who believe that American citizens are not worth being considered this way but I'm too much of a humanitarian not to think of others this way.
And I'm not ungrateful. I'm merely fearful of and repulsed by a system in which human life truly is worth so little - do you yourself have a better explanation for the lack of socialized medicine in this country for all - given the fact, once again, that the US is the only developed country in which human life is not worth socialized medicine? There is no ingratitude in asking the hard questions and holding America accountable for this lack.....not that I can see, anyway.
Has this my made my position more clear? Rob
Maybe.
Without getting into the specifics of health care which
I dont want to do on this thread and with you, I think you are more wrong than right when you overstate the drastic nature of lack of healthcare in the USA.
I do not believe you entirely when you say your advocate for others. I guess that is because for too many years and hundreds of posts we here have listened to you write about you own fear, your worry, your concern for yourself.
That all seems pretty self centered to me.
But I will accept that some of your “advocacy” is about concern for others.
Ok, now for specifics please since I am still trying to figure out if Austria is the only Big Bad
Immoral country in this discussion or if the US of A also earns that label.
What year are you talking about when you say “the law has since changed.” What year was your experience?
It was mid 80's. My guess would be 1985. Gramm Rudman had recently passed and boy were the agents at the INS which is what it was called then ticked off about the budget cuts. So that may be why they gave me the workaround.
Also, the law may have already changed to allow dual citizenship but the forms had not been updated. I vaguely remember using that as an argument but it was a long time ago.
gimmethesimplelife
7-27-18, 6:39pm
Rob, I may have posted about this before but I have been to auschwitz and it was a moving experience. You can literally feel the people’s pain and feel their souls. When I got to the room with people’s hair, eyeglasses, shoes and k suitcases I got super hot even though it was cold and stripped down to my tank top. I ran to a window and stuck my head out to breathe. I had a panic attack but was determined to complete the tour. I wish everyone could experience this. It might help people be more compassionate.TT, I really was struck by your post here. I myself have always been apprehensive about visiting Auschwitz for much the same reason. I am afraid I'd have some kind of horrible reaction due to feeling some connection to those who perished there - some kind of connection that would lead to a severe panic attack or maybe worse. I've even had dreams of such a thing happening before.
Just wanted to say that I respect you for continuing on with the tour after your reaction......I don't know if I could, truth be told. And I agree that more of the world needs to experience Auscwitz.......if such doesn't lead to more compassion, perhaps at least more awareness of the extreme evil human beings are capable of. Rob
I felt so sick and horrified visiting Dachau especially seeing the ovens. After we came out and were waiting for the bus back to Munich we saw a welcome to the town sign describing it as beautiful and scenic, no mention of what happened there. Someone had put graffiti on it, "Lies!"
Teacher Terry
7-27-18, 7:09pm
Rob, I have had moving experiences before but nothing came close to this. I was determined to finish the tour. I find it inconceivable what people will do to each other. Since the individual mandate to buy health insurance went away you again find people that can’t afford the premium and probably don’t get enough of a subsidy. Trump has really gutted it and has made sure it is unsustainable. In some states it is working better than others.
gimmethesimplelife
7-27-18, 8:01pm
Rob, I have had moving experiences before but nothing came close to this. I was determined to finish the tour. I find it inconceivable what people will do to each other. Since the individual mandate to buy health insurance went away you again find people that can’t afford the premium and probably don’t get enough of a subsidy. Trump has really gutted it and has made sure it is unsustainable. In some states it is working better than others.TT, something that I will share to give you an idea of how sensitive I personally am to such, and I take it you share this sensitivity, too (kudos, btw, in my book!!!!!)......when I was an assistant dining room manager at the North Rim of the Grand Canyon several years ago, one of the bartenders was making a "joke" - in front of guests, mind you - involving Jews, the ovens, and pizza. I will not repeat the "joke" but I will say that a minute or two after I walked away from the situation, walking down a flight of stairs from the main lobby into the dining room, the room started spinning and I started retching - right in the middle of the dining room. I moved as quickly as I could while everything was still spinning to get to the employee bathroom which luckily was vacant and I threw up and stayed in that bathroom a good half hour during the dinner rush - not good but I was of no use on the floor with everything spinning.
The Dining Room Manager thought the "joke" was stupid, but essentially harmless BS from someone young who didn't know any better yet, and refused to discipline this person. I flipped a coin in my head and it landed on call corporate in Scottsdale, AZ to bring them into the loop.....good thing I did too as a couple from Tel Aviv, Israel, was sitting nearby waiting to be called by the host stand for their dinner table, and they overheard everything and made numerous calls, finally getting the number of corporate in Scottsdale.
After their complaint, and my faxed letter detailing my witnessing the entire event, the bartender was let go. And I don't feel like I was overboard or extreme or excessive or power tripping - some things you just don't "joke" about in a public setting, especially a business setting. Preferably not at all, but most especially not in a public business setting!
I just wanted to share how such impacts me. You are not alone in this, TT. Rob
Teacher Terry
7-27-18, 8:41pm
Rob, that is terrible. I am glad it was reported. Some people have no common sense. If that made you sick probably a bad idea to go to any of the death camps.
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