The Accountable Capitalism Act

[LDAHL]

What with a couple of dozen or so contenders for the Democratic presidential nomination, how does one set oneself apart from the donkey herd? Promising free swag for all has become done to death at this point.

Senator Warren has an idea. Propose a bill to make all those awful big corporations get a federal charter. Then make them do cool European-ish stuff like make 40% of the board elected by employees and insert all kinds of policy and governance dictates as they occur to you.

The odds of passage and having to face the consequences of such a brilliant idea being essentially nil, the risks are low and the benefits high. She’ll have something to shout about during those crowded debates It could be the platform plank she can use to surf that blue wave to victory.

[iris lilies]

God Bless America!!!

I dont know what I mean by this, but I felt the need to express this after this rousing summary of our future.

[LDAHL]

God Bless America!!!

I dont know what I mean by this, but I felt the need to express this after this rousing summary of our future.

It’s a newer, bolder ACA! Our compassionate political elite will seize the means of production! And we won’t even need to carry it on the federal books!

I don’t know why anyone hasn’t thought of this before!

[catherine]

Yeah, I wish she wasn't going this far. I'm in favor of breaking up or reining in the oligarchy we have now, but even though she's targeting only those corporations with 1B or above, this is definitely come across as way too socialist a pill for most to swallow.

I still believe that unfettered capitalism has done a lot of harm, but not sure Warren has the right answer. But I'm all for an improved ACA in the form of a single payer system. That's something I'll vote for.

[catherine]

Here is a great quote from a comment in the NYT following an article about hubris (such a great word).

"Yes, the planet got destroyed. But for a beautiful moment in time, we created a lot of value for shareholders."

And here is the article: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/16/opinion/climate-change-human-survival.html#commentsContainer

So Warren's proposal seems extreme, but what's that quote about extreme times calling for extreme measures?

[LDAHL]

Here is a great quote from a comment in the NYT following an article about hubris (such a great word).

"Yes, the planet got destroyed. But for a beautiful moment in time, we created a lot of value for shareholders."

And here is the article: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/08/16/opinion/climate-change-human-survival.html#commentsContainer

So Warren's proposal seems extreme, but what's that quote about extreme times calling for extreme measures?

Like the New Yorker cartoon that quote comes from, Warren's bill has some crudely drawn aspects. I especially like the requirement that corporations be managed "for the general public good". So brilliantly vague. It could mean anything the government wants it to this week. If you want to set about fettering capitalism, that's the way to do it. Or more likely send capital overseas.

But on the positive side, I suspect this was never meant to become law. More likely just red meat for the leftist base that will be essential in the primaries if a bit of an albatross in the general election.

[Ultralight]

The creatures of capitalist propaganda will never seen fault in the system. Capitalist apologetics are a powerful form of self-deception.

Besides, all those Europeans over there live miserable, short, brutish lives. They have the longest lines at hospitals. They work from can't see in the morning until can't see at night. They live on black bread, oat gruel, and boiled potatoes.

If only they had a more capitalist system! They'd be able to choose from 800 kinds of sugary cereal and drive huge SUVs to their next door neighbor's McMansion to enjoy an artery clogging/diabetes-inducing meal of barbecued meat, pizza, Twinkies, and Bud Light while watching overpaid sports stars chase a ball around.

[Ultralight]

But on the positive side, I suspect this was never meant to become law. More likely just red meat for the leftist base that will be essential in the primaries if a bit of an albatross in the general election.

Bingo!

[Ultralight]

Warren uses socioeconomic justice to inspire the Dem base like Repubs use abortion bans to inspire their base. haha

[LDAHL]

The creatures of capitalist propaganda will never seen fault in the system. Capitalist apologetics are a powerful form of self-deception.

Besides, all those Europeans over there live miserable, short, brutish lives. They have the longest lines at hospitals. They work from can't see in the morning until can't see at night. They live on black bread, oat gruel, and boiled potatoes.

If only they had a more capitalist system! They'd be able to choose from 800 kinds of sugary cereal and drive huge SUVs to their next door neighbor's McMansion to enjoy an artery clogging/diabetes-inducing meal of barbecued meat, pizza, Twinkies, and Bud Light while watching overpaid sports stars chase a ball around.

Hey, Belgium is fine. For Belgians. If Americans decide to tax themselves more and let government make more decisions for them, they are free to vote accordingly. But this nonsense about how we can painlessly get all this stuff just at the expense of a few odious rich guys is fantasy.

Personally, I like living in a slightly more free and ruthless society. I like Twinkies too.

[Ultralight]

Personally, I like living in a slightly more free and ruthless society. I like Twinkies too.

Paraphrasing Jesus again, LDAHL? Nice! ;)

[LDAHL]

Paraphrasing Jesus again, LDAHL? Nice! ;)

I’ve been accused of worse things than being insufficiently Christlike.

[Williamsmith]

“Attention all planets of the Solar Federation, We have assumed control.”

[Ultralight]

“Attention all planets of the Solar Federation, We have assumed control.”

Who has control now?

[Ultralight]

I’ve been accused of worse things than being insufficiently Christlike.

Well, I guess the only one you need to worry about accusing you of being insufficiently Christ-like is Jesus himself. So no biggie.

I am just really dubious that Jesus would have advocated for a "ruthless" society. But I ain't no Biblical scholar. And I ain't no Christian. However, I am technically a Catholic, just like you if memory serves.

Maybe Jesus meant to get ruthless when he said: "I come not in peace, but with a sword..." (Matthew 11:34). Yeah, I bet that is what he meant.

[LDAHL]

Who has control now?
The space lizard overlords. Don’t you follow the news?

[LDAHL]

Well, I guess the only one you need to worry about accusing you of being insufficiently Christ-like is Jesus himself. So no biggie.

I am just really dubious that Jesus would have advocated for a "ruthless" society. But I ain't no Biblical scholar. And I ain't no Christian. However, I am technically a Catholic, just like you if memory serves.

Maybe Jesus meant to get ruthless when he said: "I come not in peace, but with a sword..." (Matthew 11:34). Yeah, I bet that is what he meant.

I was thinking more ruthless in terms of having fewer of the sharp edges filed off life than some other societies demand. As to my general sinfulness, I’m hoping for some wiggle room at my performance evaluation.

[Teacher Terry]

There won’t be one No worries:))

[ApatheticNoMore]

I was thinking more ruthless in terms of having fewer of the sharp edges filed off life than some other societies demand.

people do I think get addicted to the pain sometimes ... another round of american roulette ..... but a game played for all or nothing isn't even fun (fun like running from a wolf is fun ... well ...) anymore for those for whom it's always nothing.

[ToomuchStuff]

Well, I guess the only one you need to worry about accusing you of being insufficiently Christ-like is Jesus himself. So no biggie.

I am just really dubious that Jesus would have advocated for a "ruthless" society. But I ain't no Biblical scholar. And I ain't no Christian. However, I am technically a Catholic, just like you if memory serves.

Maybe Jesus meant to get ruthless when he said: "I come not in peace, but with a sword..." (Matthew 11:34). Yeah, I bet that is what he meant.

Jesus was an asshole. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone", is just another way of saying: I'm first, someone hand me a rock.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I don't know all the inns and outs of this potential legislation, but the word in the 85006 is that such is long overdue. I've been very busy the past few days but later today I will look into the specifics of this Act. And I'll post more once I know more. But so far what I'm hearing from those in the know in the 85006 is only positive.....just to give you'all an idea of lower income American thinking, thinking that is instinctive to myself also even with my higher checks and savings bridging me further away - at least temporarily - from homelessness and the truth about America and what it truly is all about. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

Jesus was an asshole. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone", is just another way of saying: I'm first, someone hand me a rock.It's a good thing we don't work together, TMS - if you uttered that anywhere near me in the workplace, I'd write you up so fast you wouldn't have seen it coming, and I'd recommend termination to those with the power above me to do so. This really is going too far, even coming from you and even considering the not inconsiderable friction between us over the years. I could let this go if it were just me but in case there are other believers here, I have to say something......and is this what this board is about now, the freedom to condemn religious figures (of any stripe, I'd be just as up in arms if the above slammed the Buddha or the Prophet Mohammed instead)? Rob

[Ultralight]

I don't know all the inns and outs of this potential legislation, but the word in the 85006 is that such is long overdue. I've been very busy the past few days but later today I will look into the specifics of this Act. And I'll post more once I know more. But so far what I'm hearing from those in the know in the 85006 is only positive.....just to give you'all an idea of lower income American thinking, thinking that is instinctive to myself also even with my higher checks and savings bridging me further away - at least temporarily - from homelessness and the truth about America and what it truly is all about. Rob

Dude. This 85006 stuff makes no sense. I used to live there! Lots of Republicans there too. It ain't like Phoenix is Cuba!

[iris lilies]

It's a good thing we don't work together, TMS - if you uttered that anywhere near me in the workplace, I'd write you up so fast you wouldn't have seen it coming, and I'd recommend termination to those with the power above me to do so. This really is going too far, even coming from you and even considering the not inconsiderable friction between us over the years. I could let this go if it were just me but in case there are other believers here, I have to say something......and is this what this board is about now, the freedom to condemn religious figures (of any stripe, I'd be just as up in arms if the above slammed the Buddha or the Prophet Mohammed instead)? Rob

This is very interesting.

I dont think I agree with TMS’ interpretation of this famous biblical quote. But that doesn't matter because I can just ignore it, I dont have to dwell how it offends me or IF it offends me.

Why cant you ignore it? Are you really now a warrior for all “believers?”

And most interesting, you would terminate someone at work for expressing what might well be seen by EEOC bureaucrats as a termination on religious grounds? Wow. It probably is a good thing your employer gives you only the power to recommend firing someone.

[gimmethesimplelife]

This is very interesting.

I dont think I agree with TMS’ interpretation of this famous biblical quote. But that doesn't matter because I can just ignore it, I dont have to dwell how it offends me or IF it offends me.

Why cant you ignore it? Are you really now a warrior for all “believers?”

And most interesting, you would terminate someone at work for expressing what might well be seen by EEOC bureaucrats as a termination on religious grounds? Wow. It probably is a good thing your employer gives you only the power to recommend firing someone.There is no tolerance for discrimination or disrespect for any religion in my workplace.....and termination is not my decision, but if I let this go and did not write up a temp for expressing such on the clock, it can come back to me and make trouble for me. Just best to not mention religion in non-derogatory ways if at all. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

Dude. This 85006 stuff makes no sense. I used to live there! Lots of Republicans there too. It ain't like Phoenix is Cuba!I live very close to the Food City off of 21st Place and McDowell Road - there are no Republicans in this neck of the woods. It could be argued over to the Coronado area there are some Republicans but there are people who don't really fit into the 85006 and are typically only there due to the close proximity to downtown. I don't know exactly where you lived but in Green Gables (the neighborhood name the city came up with for us I believe back in 2004) there are no Republicans and we are Pura/Puro 85006. Rob

[iris lilies]

There is no tolerance for discrimination or disrespect for any religion in my workplace.....and termination is not my decision, but if I let this go and did not write up a temp for expressing such on the clock, it can come back to me and make trouble for me. Just best to not mention religion in non-derogatory ways if at all. Rob
Well, I agree with you that it is “best not to mention religion ...at all” in the workplace ( I think you mean “ best to not mention religion in derogatory ways “ —that double negative gives a positive) but disciplinary action or firing someone for expression of a religious idea could be a problem for the company. Are you able to see what I am talking about? Are your “write ups” vetted by someone before the write up becomes a done deal?

[Ultralight]

I think writing someone up for verbally expressing a religious belief is a bad idea.

[LDAHL]

I live very close to the Food City off of 21st Place and McDowell Road - there are no Republicans in this neck of the woods. It could be argued over to the Coronado area there are some Republicans but there are people who don't really fit into the 85006 and are typically only there due to the close proximity to downtown. I don't know exactly where you lived but in Green Gables (the neighborhood name the city came up with for us I believe back in 2004) there are no Republicans and we are Pura/Puro 85006. Rob

How can you know this for a certainty? Do they wear a scarlet "R"? Do they have a particular scent? How can you be sure they aren't lurking in your neighborhood?

They can be tricky, you know.

[LDAHL]

I think writing someone up for verbally expressing a religious belief is a bad idea.

Yeah. Look at that Colorado Inquisition that went after the baker.

[iris lilies]

How can you know this for a certainty? Do they wear a scarlet "R"? Do they have a particular scent? How can you be sure they aren't lurking in your neighborhood?

They can be tricky, you know.

In my electric blue Ward there are, in fact, a few red people. Our ward committeeman used to distribute vote counts of how many people selected Republican ballots in primaries, as well as how many Republican candidates received votes in general elections. There arent msny but there are some. I used to know most of them, but too many have moved away.

[Ultralight]

Yeah. Look at that Colorado Inquisition that went after the baker.

Can you be more clear?

I like living and working in environments where people can actually express themselves and their ideas freely. I like to learn about and understand people. As long as it is just verbal expressions and such, then what is the harm? I don't have to accept an invitation to someone's Mosque or Temple or whatever. I don't have to believe the stuff they say. And they don't have to stop believing because of what I say.

[Ultralight]

if you uttered that anywhere near me in the workplace, I'd write you up so fast you wouldn't have seen it coming

Illiberal leftism.

[Teacher Terry]

Bad idea to write someone up for personal viewpoints. Probably not legal.

[ToomuchStuff]

There is no tolerance for discrimination or disrespect for any religion in my workplace.....and termination is not my decision, but if I let this go and did not write up a temp for expressing such on the clock, it can come back to me and make trouble for me. Just best to not mention religion in non-derogatory ways if at all. Rob


So there is a tolerance for the lack of religion and discrimination there of? Do you do a write up every time someone accidentally burns themselves on hot and says god damn? Some find that a disrespectful term, while others say it is nothing because the name Jehovah or Yahweh, Azathoth, or Thor, etc. was not used. I suspect this is more about you and what you choose to take offence at, then something the company wants to potentially fight ACLU type of lawsuit.
I suspect you would have real problems if you hired a friend I had years ago (he went on to become a pastor in the military for the Church of Satan). He would be disrespected if you said god bless you to a sneeze.

My view tends to be very Life of Brian, have fun wih all non provable imaginary characters equally. (I suspect you would not watch that movie, or borrow it from a coworker as some have done from me)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt_tv7t79WY

[LDAHL]

Bad idea to write someone up for personal viewpoints. Probably not legal.

Would you say Google was wrong to fire James Damore? Or that the Atlantic was wrong to fire Kevin Williamson?

[LDAHL]

Can you be more clear?

I like living and working in environments where people can actually express themselves and their ideas freely. I like to learn about and understand people. As long as it is just verbal expressions and such, then what is the harm? I don't have to accept an invitation to someone's Mosque or Temple or whatever. I don't have to believe the stuff they say. And they don't have to stop believing because of what I say.

I think they were handed a pretty embarrassing defeat by the Supremes in large part because a few members of the commission expressed their biases in fairly nasty terms.

I don’t think it was so much a free speech issue as it was an issue of whether it was possible for the baker to get a fair hearing.

I would say that people should be free to express any views they like in the most vulgar terms they can muster. It seems a small price to pay for a guarantee of the freedom to hear much more worthy opinions.

[Teacher Terry]

Ldahl, it depends if they were posting on their own time or representing the company in their job? It makes a big difference.

[Alan]

I think Senator Warren mis-named this legislation. It sounds more like the Federal Promotion of Socialism Act.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I think Senator Warren mis-named this legislation. It sounds more like the Federal Promotion of Socialism Act.Let me preface my comment to you Alan by the following please. Do I know every last person, every last person in the 85006? No. I'll give you that. But, and you knew there was a but coming, no? But - myself and everyone I do know, and I do know quite a few people from my activism and from being involved in the neighborhood - disagree with you and could not possibly disagree with you more. Senator Warren's legislation is long overdue for the many victims of relentlessly turbo charged capitalism that increasingly divides society via intense income/wealth inequality.

I'd love to see Senator Warren run in 2020! Rob

[iris lilies]

I'd love to see Senator Warren run in 2020! Rob

I would love to see Senstor Warren run in 2020—on that exact platform.

[LDAHL]

I would love to see Senstor Warren run in 2020—on that exact platform.

I had a similar thought. How do you lose to a historically obnoxious opponent who seems to be as estranged from the truth as he is from his ex-wife? Promise to empower the federal bureaucracy to make policy at the detail level for our larger employers on the assumption most voters want that. Add some identity politics on top, and you may just pull it off.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I would love to see Senstor Warren run in 2020—on that exact platform.I and the many people I know in Green Gables (my neighborhood in the 85006) agree with you. I understand you don't mean these words the same way I do nor the same way the 85006 does but on the surface anyway, at least we agree on something. Rob

[iris lilies]

I and the many people I know in Green Gables (my neighborhood in the 85006) agree with you. I understand you don't mean these words the same way I do nor the same way the 85006 does but on the surface anyway, at least we agree on something. Rob You got it!

[gimmethesimplelife]

How can you know this for a certainty? Do they wear a scarlet "R"? Do they have a particular scent? How can you be sure they aren't lurking in your neighborhood?

They can be tricky, you know.Other than for some new transplants moving into the Coronado neighborhood of the 85006 - they city gave the Coronado neighborhood Historic Status - the 85006 is almost exclusively blue. It's very simple. You have a low income area, people to some degree discarded by the system, overkill (luckily very rarely is this literal, to be fair) by the Phoenix Police, a population that may not overall be very educated but has enough common sense to see the truth about how little human life means in America due to the lack of socialized medicine - WHAT DO YOU EXPECT?

Former in all caps because in the 85006 we hold the truth of what I am about to post as both self evident and extremely basic fact: To vote Republican is to vote against yourself, your people, your social class, the 85006, Human Rights, Human Dignity, and any real hope for anything resembling an equitable society. Of course the 85006 is blue other than for the recent transplants in the Coronado neighborhood. Definitely not Pura/Puro 85006 over to Coronado. Rob

[iris lilies]

Other than for some new transplants moving into the Coronado neighborhood of the 85006 - they city gave the Coronado neighborhood Historic Status - the 85006 is almost exclusively blue. It's very simple. You have a low income area, people to some degree discarded by the system, overkill (luckily very rarely is this literal, to be fair) by the Phoenix Police, a population that may not overall be very educated but has enough common sense to see the truth about how little human life means in America due to the lack of socialized medicine - WHAT DO YOU EXPECT?

Former in all caps because in the 85006 we hold the truth of what I am about to post as both self evident and extremely basic fact: To vote Republican is to vote against yourself, your people, your social class, the 85006, Human Rights, Human Dignity, and any real hope for anything resembling an equitable society. Of course the 85006 is blue other than for the recent transplants in the Coronado neighborhood. Definitely not Pura/Puro 85006 over to Coronado. Rob

you keep ignoring my question about historic status for your neighborhood. If you dont want to a ser just say so.

But until then I will continue to ask: is “historic status” some kind of prize that you think is desireable?

[Teacher Terry]

All Democrats are not poor. Far from it. Look at movie stars, etc. Most of my friends are middle class and democrat well educated professionals. I think as a group the more wealthy democrats care about the less fortunate. Whereas many republicans say I used hard work to get where I am today. Well yes and no. Many poor people work hard too. Everyone born here is better off upon birth than people born in Africa. We all enjoy some privilege and some more than others.?

[Teacher Terry]

Yes and no to historical status as then you need permission to do things to your property. Although, it does keep people from tearing down the homes and building McMansions.

[gimmethesimplelife]

you keep ignoring my question about historic status for your neighborhood. If you dont want to a ser just say so.

But until then I will continue to ask: is “historic status” some kind of prize that you think is desireable?I have not meant to ignore you nor to evade you. Just been busy and when I get here I'm often tired. But I will address this here and now. Historic status is a mixed bag - with it comes higher property values (good for those fleeing to Mexico or wherever else) but yet higher property taxes (though the rates we pay in Phoenix are laughable say to the rates paid in the NE, in particular in PA, NY, and NJ). The big pull of historic status is the fact that we believe we'd be safer from law enforcement - but it's a double edged sword, really, as Historic Status means gentrification, which means dilution of all that makes the 85006 desirable and worth living in - the Pura/Puro of the 85006 that you are not going to find in a higher income area. The sense of community would be lost too, and the neighborhood would become more American and thereby more difficult to live in.

What I'm trying to say is that Historic Status is not all it's cracked up to be, but......it would mean more safety from law enforcement, and with some media attention/social media attention/protesting maybe more money for 85006 schools. So from a safety perspective and/or a focus on the very young it's not a bad thing but it would kill off that which is good in the hood. I am ambivalent on this one....if I wasn't so terrified of United States Police Officers and their insane level of disrespect for the law and their insane level of militarization, I'd probably be against it, to be honest. Rob

[Teacher Terry]

Rob, the good thing about your neighborhood increased property values is that people could sell, move to a LCOL , pay cash for a house l bank money for retirement if they wanted too. Could be a real win for some people. It could make the difference about being able too retire.

[iris lilies]

Historic status usually is undesirable for the lower social orders* and crackpot libertarians** because it comes with architectural standards that must be followed. The lower social orders scream they cannot afford perceived prissy requirements and they want their chain link fences and cheap plastic windows. The faux libertarians just want the gubmnt out of their lives.

What cops have to do with it is a mystery to me. My historic district wants the presence of police, we coddle them, we have numerous programs to maintain relations with them.

And the historic district status is what formed our community and created activists 40 years ago. New people moving in here have little understanding of the real sweat and effort (not typing on a computer) that went into saving our old building from the wrecking ball.

But I can understsnd that as gentrification happens, people of higher income move in and values of the community change. You still have a community but it may not be the community you like.

Higher taxes shouldnt be a problem because paying for schools and libraries and rec centers and water systems and all of the shared services provided to the people just seems like the right thing to do when everyone benefits. Or am I wrong here? Perhaps you DONT want to pay for the stuff you get after all.

* Rob’s term
** my term for libertarians who dont understand that ordinances crafted by the local community aint The Feds imposing one size fits all commandments