View Full Version : Plastic plastic everywhere, challenge
flowerseverywhere
8-16-18, 6:46pm
During the summer we camp around in state and national parks, army corps of engineer lands and so on. There is plastic strewn everywhere. Bottles, caps, broken toys, plastic bags, wrappers. I fill a crochet bag that I rinse out everyday. On the shores of pristine lakes and the Atlantic Ocean, trails, sides of roads. I use a grabber and I am very careful, but I am appalled.
What do do you do to fight this plastic everywhere? Besides grocery reusable bags, what can be done to get all these plastics out of the waste stream.
Teacher Terry
8-16-18, 6:57pm
I have never seen litter in the state or national parks we have gone too. That sounds awful.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51ogWDCs2JL._AC_SY400_.jpg
Small scale individual action is fine and dandy, but won't remotely influence a problem this size. The amazing quantity of stuff I see wash in on our shores here, or when I am offshore, is unbelievable.
Switching from plastic straws isn't going to save us.
Bottled water drives me nuts. I know it's necessary after disasters where there is no clean water source, but our receptacles here are just crammed with them. They also litter the gutters, sidewalks, roadways....
They make reusable ones, but people are lazy. It's too easy to simply buy another pre-filled bottle.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51ogWDCs2JL._AC_SY400_.jpg
Small scale individual action is fine and dandy, but won't remotely influence a problem this size. The amazing quantity of stuff I see wash in on our shores here, or when I am offshore, is unbelievable.
Switching to plastic straws isn't going to save us.
+1
And thanks for the Derrick Jensen reference. This, and Vol I, were great books.
I wish I could find the article. Years ago I read about a guy in Oregon. His only trash was the miniature stickers that come on pieces of fruit. He found a store that would let him refill his existing shampoo containers, kind of like using bulk bins at Whole Foods in concept but you provide your own container.
flowerseverywhere
8-16-18, 7:45pm
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51ogWDCs2JL._AC_SY400_.jpg
Small scale individual action is fine and dandy, but won't remotely influence a problem this size. The amazing quantity of stuff I see wash in on our shores here, or when I am offshore, is unbelievable.
Switching to plastic straws isn't going to save us.
thank you for this recommendation. I found lots of info about his talks and they are archived on Facebook. I agree 100% with all you have said here. But I can’t stand to leave the plastic on the bank of a body of water. A tiny drop in an ocean of debris, I know.
flowerseverywhere
8-16-18, 7:46pm
I wish I could find the article. Years ago I read about a guy in Oregon. His only trash was the miniature stickers that come on pieces of fruit. He found a store that would let him refill his existing shampoo containers, kind of like using bulk bins at Whole Foods in concept but you provide your own container.. I did this when I worked in Syracuse NY. I bought my own containers and avoided packaging as much as I could. Have not found many stores like this
flowerseverywhere
8-16-18, 7:48pm
I have never seen litter in the state or national parks we have gone too. That sounds awful.
It’s on the trails, and once a bottle gets in a body of water by a boater or careless person, it can travel for miles. Washing up on a distant shore is causing havoc around the world. I believe what Bae describes is the current reality.
Teacher Terry
8-16-18, 8:02pm
I have seen it on the news but haven’t seen it when we hike.
Chicken lady
8-16-18, 9:01pm
Tonight at class I took an empty plastic water bottle out of the trash can and carried it ten feet to the recycling bin. People make me crazy.
i won’t drink bottled water unless it is a medical need.
a few weeks ago I started reading about shampoo. Which led to reading about bar shampoo. Which led to discovering that bar shampoo is basically my homemade soap with a little extra oil for moisturizing, and fragrances. (Plus sometimes stabilizers and preservatives.) So I started washing my hair with the bar soap. Plus - I don’t seem to need conditioner. Minus - over time my hair does seem to get a “thicker” feeling, which may be buildup, but it is still soft and shiny. We’ll see what happens when I start swimming in the pool again.
i am avoiding take out food and trying to bring containers for leftovers if I know I will be eating out.
i have been minimizing my grocery store packaging as much as possible, which has me eating better. The deli is willing to put dh lunch meat in a reusable container instead of a ziplock bag.
i am starting an environmental club at school, and I now need that book. Must contact library....
don’t give up flowers!
During the summer we camp around in state and national parks, army corps of engineer lands and so on. There is plastic strewn everywhere. Bottles, caps, broken toys, plastic bags, wrappers. I fill a crochet bag that I rinse out everyday. On the shores of pristine lakes and the Atlantic Ocean, trails, sides of roads. I use a grabber and I am very careful, but I am appalled.
What do do you do to fight this plastic everywhere? Besides grocery reusable bags, what can be done to get all these plastics out of the waste stream.
Not to do with parks or wild lands, but about plastics. When I shop bulk items the store doesn't give a non plastic bag item for the bulk rice, beans and what not that I buy. There are no small paper bag or other options.
Chicken lady
8-16-18, 9:46pm
Tiam, I take glass jars with lids and they weigh them and write the weight on the Jar lid. Then the cashier subtracts the weight of the jar and lid.
you can also take your own cloth, paper, or reused plastic bag.
Tiam, I take glass jars with lids and they weigh them and write the weight on the Jar lid. Then the cashier subtracts the weight of the jar and lid.
you can also take your own cloth, paper, or reused plastic bag.
I'm not sure Winco or Food 4 Less would do that all. They are all about volume and moving it along. Maybe at a co op I can see that.
Chicken lady
8-16-18, 10:08pm
Will they stop you from refilling their own plastic bags?
my experience s Whole Foods And Kroger, so yeah, ymmv
Bottled water drives me nuts. I know it's necessary after disasters where there is no clean water source, but our receptacles here are just crammed with them. They also litter the gutters, sidewalks, roadways....
They make reusable ones, but people are lazy. It's too easy to simply buy another pre-filled bottle.
Here in Oregon, there is a .10 deposit on plastic water bottles. High end commodity among the homeless.
catherine
8-16-18, 10:44pm
Bottled water drives me nuts. I know it's necessary after disasters where there is no clean water source, but our receptacles here are just crammed with them. They also litter the gutters, sidewalks, roadways....
They make reusable ones, but people are lazy. It's too easy to simply buy another pre-filled bottle.
And the bottled water manufacturers have done such a great job of branding water. It drives me nuts that I have a water filter in my refrigerator, but BIL will bring home 12 oz bottles of Dasani for home use because he likes the taste of it. According to him, Dasani water is better tasting than Evian or Poland Spring or any other bottled or filtered water.
Teacher Terry
8-17-18, 12:44am
We never buy bottled water and always have our own bottles.
Switching from plastic straws isn't going to save us.
I am a big believer in "the starfish story" (https://starfishproject.com/the-parable/) but I believe bae is correct in this; the scale of the problem multiplied among a few hundred million USians and industrial processes and marketing efforts make whatever I can save/not use a teaspoon in the ocean.
a few weeks ago I started reading about shampoo. Which led to reading about bar shampoo. Which led to discovering that bar shampoo is basically my homemade soap with a little extra oil for moisturizing, and fragrances.
Apparently I don't use much shampoo because whenever I finally empty a container and go back to the store to buy more, it's been discontinued or is no longer available in my area. So this last time I bought a shampoo bar (okay; it was substantially cheaper than many of the others, which helped). It's amazing! Easy to use, less mess than the stuff in the bottle, and it will last a good long time. I'm a convert. If the co-op no longer sells this when I go back for more, I'll look for it on-line.
i disagree that stopping the use of plastic straws won't help. The USA alone uses enough to fill 46 school buses annually.
EVERY bit helps!
Teacher Terry
8-17-18, 11:18am
You can now buy straws made out of pasta. I just don’t take a straw when offered and some places only give them if you ask for them.
Why do you need a straw to drink? Seriously.
I have gone to bar shampoo as well. Really like it!
Why do you need a straw to drink? Seriously.
I'm with you. If they banned straws entirely, I wouldn't even notice.
I had a friend who was completely into her looks and she drank coffee through a straw so she wouldn't stain her teeth.
Why do you need a straw to drink? Seriously.
I know some folks who are unable to drink on their own without straws due to physical issues.
When I grew up, we had paper straws. Plastic straws were a new invention. Just like paper shopping bags being replaced by plastic and waxed milk cartons being replaced by plastic........................................... ..
ApatheticNoMore
8-17-18, 3:50pm
It's not a difficult problem, I mean really it's not.
I own a stainless steel and a glass straw. The stainless steel got quite dirty and I'm not sure how to clean so ... eh I don't know. The glass I can tell if it's clean or dirty easily (clear glass, see right through it) so I prefer it. And you know what cold drinks are more enjoyable with a glass straw. Really. Because the coldness gets into the glass as well, it conducts it, and this is a very pleasing sensation when sipping a nice cold drink. I am like wow this is how things used to be? This is always how I want to drink cold stuff! Plastic doesn't do that. So it's actually an upgrade in your drinking pleasure ..
Teacher Terry
8-17-18, 4:11pm
I never use straws.
ANM, use a pipecleaner to clean inside the straw. Sometimes soaking just doesn't get the crud out.
I've also used a skewer and a small piece of cotton ball. The skewers are for kebabs on the grill.
ApatheticNoMore
8-17-18, 8:54pm
I'll try it but I recommend the glass straw.
I know some folks who are unable to drink on their own without straws due to physical issues.
Very true Bae. They could however buy and carry reusable straws with them.
mschrisgo2
8-17-18, 11:15pm
PAPER STRAWS! I loved them as a kid, we used to foid them and make all kinds of things out of them, especially little "people" and when mom got tired of the mess, they went to the fireplace for kindling
Miss Cellaneous
8-20-18, 10:12am
Very true Bae. They could however buy and carry reusable straws with them.
Assuming they have the physical dexterity to clean the reusable straws.
I think there is a place for plastic disposable items. Most of us don't need them, but they are a godsend to people with certain disabilities.
I know some folks who are unable to drink on their own without straws due to physical issues.
Of course, I'm sure we all do. However that would be a very small percentage. Straws are automatically offered or distributed with every drink that is ordered. I leave them on the counter, or tell the drive-through cashier to keep it. I've shared with my grandson why I do this and now he just drinks from the cup, too.
Assuming they have the physical dexterity to clean the reusable straws.
I think there is a place for plastic disposable items. Most of us don't need them, but they are a godsend to people with certain disabilities.
Or they could just carry their own. Plastic ones. Or paper ones, whichever.
Happy to report that the Aldi nearest me has finally started offering some produce items such as bananas and apples loose in bins so you can buy what you want without plastic.
I really disliked the plastic wrapped bananas as they always seemed to have fruit flies when I got them home and opened the plastic up.
I haven't read all the responses here, but I was about to start a thread about plastics, and saw this. Plastics have really started to bother me lately. Probably because I've heard more about the huge plastic "islands" floating in the seas.
I recycle everything I can, but that's not a solution. It's so hard to avoid plastic......the tops of things like oatmeal boxes, ice cream containers, nuts. The sleeves of crackers are plastic, rice is in plastic bags, along with many other things that used to be paper. Even the labels on cans of coffee are plastic. think of everything in medicine now.....I.V. bags, syringes, needle holders, etc., Then there's all the hard plastics on cars, etc. It overwhelms me. When I go to buy plants for the garden, most of them are in plastic pots. Bonnie's plants used to be in peat pots (peat is a problem too, but maybe better than plastic). I called the company and they said I could still get peat pots in their organic stuff. yes, the answer would be to grow my own from seeds. But the older I get, the more "shortcuts" I seem to need to take. At least I preserve the garden harvest.
Kroger has said they are getting rid of their plastic shopping bags in a couple years. That's great. If I ruled the world, soooooo many things would be required to be glass, or paper, etc.
I used to save every straw and plastic utensil I got, hoping some day they would be recyclable.......but they aren't. So I gave hundreds of them to a youth center, hoping they might use them more than once. And I agree.......most people don't need a straw. I always tell the server we don't want one....but they forget.
It's hard to even find pen refills. Most people don't want to mess with them, when they can just buy new ones.
I'm getting pretty depressed over this culture.........that has spread to many other poor nations, in terms of having plastics available, and they are just thrown into dumps, rivers, fields.
What a lazy, spoiled bunch we are. We don't deserve this beautiful earth. :(
I can't help but feel that humankind is a blight on this beautiful planet. I'm sad.
According to him, Dasani water is better tasting than Evian or Poland Spring or any other bottled or filtered water.
My dentist informed me that dasani has citroc acid in it. So yeah, it tastes better. But it’s also bad for your teeth.
Williamsmith
10-18-18, 5:25pm
While refusing a straw is a nice personal gesture to save marine life....wouldn’t it be more meaningful if say, McDonalds found a way to have a straw actually manufactured as part of the cup itself?
And wouldn't it be more meaningful if you never ate at Macdonalds, or Burger king, etc., etc. ? I say Down with all fast food joints! I know......I'm not being realistic.
My guess why straws became plastic was that our cup size got bigger and bigger. It would be hard for a paper straw to last long enough to drink The Big Gulp.
Also......everybody drinks in their car, and you don't want it spilling out......so you need a plastic lid too. :(
I found put the movie theater won't let me bring my aluminum water bottle in. They want me to buy their plastic water bottles.
Maybe I'm a pessimist........but I feel like the horse is out of the barn. Everything is out of the barn. What we do will not matter, since the vast majority of humans don't give a shit. All we can do individually is try to live a life that takes care of the earth, as much as we are able to. (And give our deepest apologies to the earth). We are, no doubt, one of the most difficult countries to live simply in, without creating so much toxic trash.
Williamsmith
10-18-18, 8:43pm
Maybe I'm a pessimist........but I feel like the horse is out of the barn. Everything is out of the barn. What we do will not matter, since the vast majority of humans don't give a shit. All we can do individually is try to live a life that takes care of the earth, as much as we are able to. (And give our deepest apologies to the earth). We are, no doubt, one of the most difficult countries to live simply in, without creating so much toxic trash.
Given the choices, I’ll take my challenges here and beg for forgiveness in the afterlife.
Teacher Terry
10-18-18, 9:47pm
I totally agree Cathy. I do what I can in my own life. I used cloth diapers for my kids and now use cloth potty pads for the dogs unless we travel.
happystuff
10-19-18, 7:21am
Happy to report that the Aldi nearest me has finally started offering some produce items such as bananas and apples loose in bins so you can buy what you want without plastic.
I really disliked the plastic wrapped bananas as they always seemed to have fruit flies when I got them home and opened the plastic up.
I actually take and use my own homemade gauze or netted-type bags for produce at the store for loose produce - peppers, broccoli, green beans, lettuce, etc.
You have a choice. Sit and mope and cry 'woe is me' + 'woe is the world'
OR
take steps within your understanding to learn and make changes where possible. I have lived long enough to see many positive changes when the climate of thought has reached the tipping point to modify behaviour and the law.
Conscious raising is key to making positive change. Be the change that you want to see.
SteveinMN
10-19-18, 7:48am
Maybe I'm a pessimist........but I feel like the horse is out of the barn.
I agree. But if the U.S. is the spearhead, it's a long long spear. While other developed countries are trying to react to the crisis and too many Americans believe it's a hoax or God's will or that it's inevitable and we should relax and enjoy it, there are billions of people on earth who aspire to the lifestyles lived in developed countries and aren't particularly happy that they're getting to the party just in time to clean up after the other revelers. It's a matter of political will and, by the time the symptoms of pollution and global warming are obviously harmfully evident, it will be too late to do anything but watch. :(
Gardenarian
10-19-18, 2:04pm
Some of the cafes around here are using pieces of hay, just regular hay straw, as straws. Straws made of straw.
Plastic bags are not allowed here, and lids for cups are available only on request.
The grocery stores are offering very inexpensive reusable, washable, non-plastic produce bags - around .50 a piece. They seem to be becoming very popular.
I've been using these for quite a few years for produce. And have been using cloth grocery bags for about 30 years.
2539
Chicken lady
10-20-18, 9:01am
When I go to the grocery store, I ask for paper bags. It takes the bagger more effort, so I always explain that I take them to the food bank because they need the bags and have to buy them.
last time I was there, the bagger said “pretty soon everybody is going to have to buy them. They want to pass a law against free bags!” She sounded very indignant. She was also trapped where I could talk to her due to her job, so out of respect for her inability to walk away, I just gave her a cheerful “i’m good with that.”
Teacher Terry
10-20-18, 11:12am
San Francisco has that. I am fine with that too.
And we dont have plastic bags anymore either.
ApatheticNoMore
10-21-18, 8:41am
They need to ban most single use plastic.
They do charge for bags here, the thing is it's no big deal to pay for them, but one picks their poison anyway. I mean one probably needs bags for their garbage anyway so one buys plastic garbage bags or buys the paper bags for their groceries at the store and can use that for garbage. Someone is going to insist they compost all their garbage, but I've never been able to figure out if that makes sense living in a one bedroom apartment (maybe it does and I'm just unenlightened but most of the stuff seems pitched at homeowners), and I'm honestly not that interested in what makes sense for homeowners with large yards. I mean good for them to do that, but there's a lot of people who don't live in that situation.
SteveinMN
10-21-18, 9:26am
They need to ban most single use plastic.
I'm interested in how that could be done on a practical level. Perhaps the most challenging part might be identifying "single use".
We do buy plastic zipper bags for food storage -- not exclusively but they come in handy. Many people use them once and throw them away. If our bag is clean (for example, its purpose in life was closing up an opened package of pasta), I reuse it for another package or even outright food storage (after which I might throw it away; there's a balance with the carbon footprint of the hot water and soap one needed to clean a plastic bag). Single use or not?
I had to repair the rear wiper on my car. That required pulling off the trim panel on the inside of the hatch. Aside from some metal clips and the carpet on a portion of it, that entire panel is thick ABS plastic. It is labeled for recycling (German law), but I will guess that, when the car meets its end, it never will be recycled because it is not economically feasible to do so. However, avoiding plastic as a component of the trim panel means doing away with a material which is light (saves fuel), takes some abuse from cargo shifting in the back, and will never rot regardless of how much moisture surrounds it. Single use, almost certainly. But what else is there that performs as well?
We've all encountered examples of egregious plastic use -- as packing materials, as covers for surfaces so they don't get marred before their first use (no matter how unlikely that is, ensconced as the part is in other packing materials), as trinkets or flimsy doodads. I could see encouraging people to go without those plastics. I could see encouraging plastics made from materials which might biodegrade in our lifetimes. But we're talking changes in human nature, not laws.
happystuff
10-21-18, 9:34am
I try to remain conscious of the materials in the purchasing choices I make and simply try to do my best. I do put forth effort and I do believe I make a difference - even if it is a small one. For example, my metal water bottle gets refilled at least twice a day, so that could be 1-3 plastic bottles that I'm not using; I use my homemade veggie bags at the store, so that also makes up for several plastic bags a week that I'm not using. I do believe that little things add up and make a difference.
sweetana3
10-21-18, 9:48am
Population of US: 325 million
Population of India: 1.34 billion
Population of China: 1.38 billion
I continue to worry more about the use of plastic (increasing all the time) in India and China. Every bit helps but I cannot control much at all at my level.
I worry more about the use of bulk products due to the sorry cleanliness habits of some shoppers.
catherine
10-21-18, 9:56am
A couple of days ago I saw the Trump signed into law the Save Our Seas Act of 2018. I thought his support of an enviro-friendly initiative was uncharacteristic of him, so I did a little research and found this article in Recycling Today (http://www.recyclingtoday.com/article/acc-plastics-support-save-our-seas-act/). The act was lauded by the Plastics Industry Association and the American Chemical Council.
So, industry probably promotes this act because of all the negative backlash: the bans against straws and bags etc. They probably wouldn't care one little bit if it weren't for grassroots efforts to address the problem at the source. If plastics can be cleaned up and contained, they can keep the stream of plastic coming. Too bad plastic still has other problems--slow degradation, use of fossil fuel in production. If only it were a matter of simply cleaning them up and finding landfills big enough to contain them.
Chicken lady
10-21-18, 10:47am
I see this as a positive step.
if you look at environmental issues as a building where everybody comes in on the first floor and we’re trying to get us all to the roof, most of trumps actions have been along the lines on moving the entrance to the basement, or at least regrading the yard so that we now have a low porch with more steps.
anything that raises the floor is progress. Meanwhile, you just have to keep climbing and help the people behind you up a step. Sometimes we may have to rest on a landing, but as long as we don’t lie to ourselves and say it’s the roof, hopefully we’ll get there.
(also, to extend the analogy with a dose of reality, as flooding increases, more and more of the people on the bottom step will drown, so as a practical matter, the project gets easier. They’ll pull some of the people on the step above them into the water too, but if you’re already on the second floor, it shouldn’t really affect you.)
i have two “single use” plastic containers that I brought home from the food bank, diverting them and their contents from the dumpster. I wash them and take them to the store over and over to be refilled with deli meat (which is bad, but dh is going to eat it) saving about 52 plastic ziploc bags a year. dh said “the deli guy hates you.” I said “the deli guy smiles when he sees me coming.” Dh said “he is laughing at you.” I said “cool. I am saving plastic and adding amusement to the day of somebody with a low paying repetitive job.”
i cannot imagine that the water and energy use (including a tiny bit of soap and its production, packaging, and transportation) to clean a plastic bag exceeds the water and energy use to produce, package, and transport a new plastic bag plus transport and dispose of the old one. Also, the washing is part of an open cycle, where the use and disposal is a closed line.
Chicken lady
10-21-18, 11:00am
Here:
https://1bagatatime.com/learn/plastic-bags-petroleum/
obviously they have an agenda, but it was the best I could find quickly.
also, if you actually want to help, DON’T buy “reusable” bags. There are already enough bags in the world. Get your hands on some and reuse them. If you literally can’t find anybody who will give you a bag, grab some worn out clothing and a sewing machine! If you can’t find anybody who will give you old clothes, or sell them to you for almost nothing, I really want to know where you live. (I accept that the sewing machines may be more if a challenge, but you can maybe borrow one, or hand sew. Or get an old pillowcase.)
SteveinMN
10-21-18, 12:53pm
https://1bagatatime.com/learn/plastic-bags-petroleum/
obviously they have an agenda, but it was the best I could find quickly.
From the site:
An average American throws away about 10 bags a week. That’s 520 bags a year–a fuel equivalent of 60 miles of driving.
It takes .48 MJ to produce a bag. MJ stands for megajoule, which is enough energy to heat a liter of water to boiling. That .48 MJ of energy comes from the petroleum that the plastic itself is made from, as well as the petroleum burned as energy in the manufacturing process to make the bag. An average car consumes 6.7 MJ in driving 1 mile, or the equivalent of 14 bags per mile driven. These statistics come from <-- n.b., not an accidental cut-off; the source is not present on their Web page
I'm not throwing away 10 bags a week. Maybe two. So now I'm down to the equivalent of 12 miles of driving. I can drive that far in the service of buying something used off craigslist. The figures in the first graf also don't square with the figures in the second graf: 520 bags divided by 14 bags per mile equals 37 miles of driving (at some undefined speed, etc., and I'll note "the average car" does not get 40+ mpg as mine does). The blank attribution is a little troubling, too.
I'm not saying this to rationalize my use of plastic bags (we're talking food storage, not shopping; I have a set of bags I use for that) or to poke particularly at the numbers. Let's even accept their worst numbers as accurate. I can save the equivalent petroleum of all the bags I throw away by not making one trip in my car. Now we're in the ballpark of the "Make a million $10 at a time" thread. Either there needs to be a better way to account for all the carbon involved in a plastic bag's manufacture and reuse or eventual landfill storage or we get to make different choices about how we want to burn the petroleum we do.
Chicken lady
10-21-18, 1:50pm
Steve, that is hilarious. It’s like the rebulican mailing I just got with footnote numbers on all the things they said about the dmocrat - but no footnotes! It did offer me stuff to look into though, so there is that.
I was truly in a hurry and I assumed there was a next page. There is no next page.
Chicken lady
10-24-18, 7:55am
I took my reusable container to the deli again today. There was a different person working the counter. She said “I wish more people would do this, we use so much plastic!”
PSA - take your reusable container to the deli. :)
I'm surprised (unfortunately) that they would let you use your own container. Seems like it would be considered a health risk to others.
SteveinMN
10-24-18, 10:10am
I'm surprised (unfortunately) that they would let you use your own container. Seems like it would be considered a health risk to others.
I don't know that that's a high risk. At our food co-op (and others) you can bring your own containers to fill from the bulk drop bins. I have seen issues (at regular grocery stores) with customers reaching into open bins with bare hands to load food or "sample". But it's not easy to get into the gravity-fed bins so I feel comfortable with how that health risk is being managed.
And I knew someone who brought their grandma's favorite serving bowl to the grocery store deli, had them fill it with potato salad, and kind of passed it off as "grandma's potato salad". :~)
At the coffee shop where I usually buy my beans, bringing in my own container is worth a couple of dollars off the price of a pound. Since all I did with the paper bag they provided was load my container and then recycle their bag, remembering to bring my container is easy and a "win" of its own.
catherine
10-24-18, 11:25am
I agree that refilling containers is often considered high risk. That's why they don't let you re-use your plates in buffet restaurants. In your case, Steve, those bulk items are probably dried. And the other factor is that the "crunchy granola" people who shop at co-ops are probably more tolerant of the potential risks.
I recall when my two youngest were very young--maybe 5 and 6--we went to our local natural food store in Princeton. The kids were curious about the bulk peanut butter machine. An elderly man (probably he was the age I am now, frankly) saw the kids looking at it and said "Mmm, this is good!" And he wiped his finger under the peanut butter that was dripping from the spigot, and then he licked his finger. "Hmm!!!" he said.
Then he told the kids: "Try it!"
And they stepped away and shook their heads. If they had agreed to swipe their finger under the spigot where this man had just swiped his, not sure what I would have done. Probably nothing. I'm not big on germophobia.
But I think most places err on the side of caution of reuse of containers--especially their own containers. Maybe it's different if you ask to reuse your own.
Chicken lady
10-24-18, 11:40am
The deli worker wears gloves. (S)he slices the product as usual, puts it on the piece of paper on the scale as usual, folds the paper over, puts it in my open container,which is on the service counter, snaps the lid on, prints out the label (as usual) sticks it on my container, hands the container over, and throws away her gloves - as usual. I fail to see any risk to the public.
the deli has an open dish of chips and dip to try.
Well Chicken lady, it sounds like she did it all pretty clean-ily.
This is a little off=topic. I remember once ordering a quart of ice cream at Dairy Queen once. I ordered it and went to the drive-up window. I saw the lady preparing it. She used a spoon to put the ice cream into the container, then licked her whole hand. I drove off without the ice cream....... (hadn't even paid for it yet). Blecch! Maybe being an R.N. has made me more conscious of germ transmission.........??
SteveinMN
10-24-18, 1:20pm
I think most people know poor hygiene when they see it. I used to frequent a candy store near here that had a kind of hard-to-find chocolate my mom especially likes but looked elsewhere when the person behind the counter was touching the money with the same hands he used to handle the chocolate. I sent a note to the store's owner telling him/her what I saw -- and never heard back. >8) I was at the store not long ago, buying something commercially packaged outside the store, and saw frequent use of disposable gloves, so things have changed. But, yuck.
Teacher Terry
10-24-18, 1:30pm
I won’t buy anything I see being handled incorrectly. Don’t intend to get sick because someone is a moron.
I do not use the deli much anymore after observing one of the workers scratching his face and hair with gloves on and then proceeding to handle an order with the same gloves. I've observed him doing this on 2 separate occasions. Yuck.
I have seen people working behind the grocery store seafood counter with plastic gloves on, doing various work and they ask me what I want. But I insist they change their gloves first. In some places I’ve seen people with plastic gloves on and they act like it’s for their protection and they just do all sorts of things with them on, including handling food and money. Yuck.
pinkytoe
10-25-18, 10:05am
The topics of plastic and re-use has been interesting to me living in two different cities. One city, hyper-aware of it and the other, mostly unconscious. I take all the individual steps I can (and pick up other people's trash) but I know the problem is much bigger than that. There are scores of humans who are completely ignorant of the problem and businesses who don't care.
CathyA mentioned it was difficult to find pen refills. I use Pilot G2 gel pens. You can get refills on Amazon. Used to be able to find them at Walmart, but not for a while.
catherine
10-25-18, 1:54pm
I miss using these pens:
https://www.amazon.com/Lamy-Safari-Fountain-Umber-Cartridges/dp/B00V55F1RG/ref=pd_lpo_vtph_229_tr_t_2?_encoding=UTF8&psc=1&refRID=ERXQWV1MJ812TJFA3XEC
They were mandatory in my Catholic elementary school. Every now and then I consider going back to using one. They make my handwriting look better. But then again, when do I ever write by hand these days, except when I leave my DH a note that I'm at the store? Oh, wait. When I want to tell him I went to the store, I text message him. And when I make notes in my daily journal, I use pencil so I can erase.
Forget the cartridge pen.
I know what you mean. My handwriting was always pretty chaotic (I had it analyzed once, and they sent back a report with something like "get help" :help:) but it's become worse since I hardly ever write anything more demanding than grocery and to-do lists. That looks like a nice pen, but I think that ship has sailed...
Another returning trend is the old metal razor that uses a double sided blade. A good thing since the world is probably afloat in disposable plastic razors.
SteveinMN
10-25-18, 6:30pm
Another returning trend is the old metal razor that uses a double sided blade. A good thing since the world is probably afloat in disposable plastic razors.
I've been shaving with one of those since the mid-2000s. An all-metal razor that's every bit as good today as it was when it was made 50+ years ago. Even the blades are recyclable. Now plastic razors feel too light and flimsy to do the job. :D
I recall when my two youngest were very young--maybe 5 and 6--we went to our local natural food store in Princeton. The kids were curious about the bulk peanut butter machine. An elderly man (probably he was the age I am now, frankly) saw the kids looking at it and said "Mmm, this is good!" And he wiped his finger under the peanut butter that was dripping from the spigot, and then he licked his finger. "Hmm!!!" he said.
Then he told the kids: "Try it!"
I'm reminded of a former coworker of mine. She used to refill a plastic water bottle (the purchased Dasani kind) at the water cooler by jamming the thing up against the cooler's spigot. Getting her bright red lipstick on the water cooler spigot in the process confirming to all of us what she had done. YUCK!
I know what you mean. My handwriting was always pretty chaotic (I had it analyzed once, and they sent back a report with something like "get help" :help:) but it's become worse since I hardly ever write anything more demanding than grocery and to-do lists. That looks like a nice pen, but I think that ship has sailed...
I haven't written a grocery list in years. I have a running note in the notes app on my phone. As I think "jp, get that at the store next time you're there" I add it to the digital note. Then, while I"m standing in the checkout I erase everything that I"m buying.
As a sort of aside to this topic, I like that my city has curbside compost pickup. Not so much because of individual households, although I suppose that's good, especially for yard waste, but because of restaurants. SO's main hotel, a 2000 room entire-block monster with multiple restaurants and ballrooms, has 6 big compost bins that get emptied multiple times per day by their refuse company. Multiply that across a city with thousands of restaurants and it adds up.
Today's news says that the European Parliament is close to banning a number of single use plastic products and a mandatory reduction of other plastics including fishing nets. https://www.npr.org/2018/10/26/660843753/european-parliament-approves-ban-on-single-use-plastics We can do our best for voluntary reductions here, but it's going to take some sorts of regulations like this to overcome some of the market forces. I don't understand how or why Americans are not more on board for environmental regulations.
My recycling center is starting to require all plastics to be separate and sorted by the numbers. Something I don't mind doing and hopefully will reduce the plastics going to landfills. I was in a Whole Foods no less and peeked inside their recycle containers. People had tossed in a variety of refuse inappropriate for the container label. My understanding is that at least one of the problems with recycling plastics and other recyclables is contamination like this.
I am almost out of the work pens I had in forgotten in my pocket and brought home. I try to write some handwritten notes to people for certain occasions and bought a couple Fisher Space Pens. Maybe some remember those, they were developed for the space program back in the days of Tang and could write upside down and even underwater. They write on those slick coated greeting cards or on checks that might have some finger print oil. You can still buy them and they have replaceable cartridges. As the story goes the government spent a lot of money to develop them for the astronauts to use in space. The Soviets had a more simple solution, lead pencils.
I’m on a gals-only diving FB group that is U.K. based. There are the usual European “let’s ban plastic” cries. Several people who are in the medical field would like to get rid of all the plastic used in health care. Really?
There are also multiple mentions of alternatives such as bamboo toothbrushes and other options that are expensive. People of less means aren’t going to be spending $4 on a single bamboo toothbrush when you can get a multipack at Aldi for $2-3. In my limited experience, the alternatives to save plastic, energy, whatever, by those of limited means are going to be the old fashioned ways - cloth diapers, glass containers, wax paper, etc.
catherine
10-28-18, 9:56am
I’m on a gals-only diving FB group that is U.K. based. There are the usual European “let’s ban plastic” cries. Several people who are in the medical field would like to get rid of all the plastic used in health care. Really?
There are also multiple mentions of alternatives such as bamboo toothbrushes and other options that are expensive. People of less means aren’t going to be spending $4 on a single bamboo toothbrush when you can get a multipack at Aldi for $2-3. In my limited experience, the alternatives to save plastic, energy, whatever, by those of limited means are going to be the old fashioned ways - cloth diapers, glass containers, wax paper, etc.
I agree that pulling back on medical plastic use would be very difficult. But we can start with the low-hanging fruit.
Yes--plastic toothbrushes are cheaper than bamboo and some people can't afford a $4 toothbrush. But how many people is that? Can I afford a $4 toothbrush? Yes. That's why I use bamboo toothbrushes.
I feel that resistance to plastic use is like an omnivore's reaction to a vegan wearing a leather belt. People are so quick to dismiss change unless they can prove that people have to change 100%. Baby steps are what accomplish big goals. You pick your battles. I'll allow my doctor to slip on a pair of latex gloves, and that is not at all inconsistent with my own puny desire to be more mindful of the every day choices I make.
ApatheticNoMore
10-28-18, 11:57am
I feel that resistance to plastic use is like an omnivore's reaction to a vegan wearing a leather belt. People are so quick to dismiss change unless they can prove that people have to change 100%. Baby steps are what accomplish big goals. You pick your battles. I'll allow my doctor to slip on a pair of latex gloves, and that is not at all inconsistent with my own puny desire to be more mindful of the every day choices I make.
amen. Ask yourself what you are willing to give up and what you aren't (well in terms of resource use in general). Keep on asking. Don't take on the guilt of being personally guilty for all that's wrong with the world, we live in MUCH larger social structures, that we only have so much stay in (especially if we are personally neither rich nor powerful, if we are then we might have more say than others).
So for example: the car isn't something you give up because you have to commute to have any money at all, neither do you give up driving to see your friends because of what those relationships mean to you. Ok, proceed. Then ask what you are willing to give up in day to day living, keep asking, in humility, in honesty. Ha, the latex used for birth control I would even advocate people keep using if it's something they use! But anyway I'm just saying it's a path ... It's like Marie Kondo, only it really doesn't care whether you get joy from your possessions or not, but it can be asked of day to day choices, what choices we still keep, what we don't.
I don't know what's poisoned everyone and their thinking to make it so black and white. Maybe Socrates has poisoned us all :). Maybe the lawyers have. Why do all attempts to move toward better environmental responsibility read like a philosophy 101 debate: "honesty is good, but what if there are Nazis at your door and you are hiding a would be concentration camp victim and they ask about it, is honestly still the best policy?". Sheesh, we're going to have to deal with life and practical problems (and I admit they are huge) in a little more grounded way sometime and like we actually live on planet earth, and not like it is a philosophy 101 debate. The European proposal makes sense to me.
I don't get why in this day and age most of us can't work from home. That would make cars last longer.
Because bosses fear work from home. They think they will lose control. However research supports it as a more cost effective and efficient work model. Hopefully the times keep changing until most of us have that option.
Teacher Terry
10-28-18, 3:59pm
Because employers want to micro manage people.
Miss Cellaneous
10-29-18, 3:26pm
I'm reminded of a former coworker of mine. She used to refill a plastic water bottle (the purchased Dasani kind) at the water cooler by jamming the thing up against the cooler's spigot. Getting her bright red lipstick on the water cooler spigot in the process confirming to all of us what she had done. YUCK!
About two years ago, my company replaced all the water fountains with new water fountains that have a place to set a reusable water bottle, separate from the spigot that you drink from. Water automatically streams into the bottle, and then you lift the bottle off when it is full. There is a digital counter that displays how many plastic water bottles were *not* used because of this--last time I checked, the number was around 19,500 or so.
But this company is pretty into recycling as much as possible. We even have pens that are made of paper? cardboard? and the only plastic is the bit that actually holds the ink and a small "clicker" on the top of the pen. There's a metal spring, and a wooden clip. But mostly, it's a paperless office.
I would LOVE a paperless office! We have most of the technology to do it. The thing we’re missing is the full Adobe Acrobat software - we need it to combine multiple PDF files into one, for both building invoice packets for billing customers and for customs documents. That software is expensive and they haven’t shown a willingness to pay it. Yet we go through so much paper and they won’t recycle because it’s too expensive. I take what I can for drawing paper for kids I know and use it for scrap paper in the office. But that doesn’t make much of a dent in it. I try to print only what’s necessary and that’s still a lot but required by the job.
I buy my own pens and get refills for them. Have my own reusable cups for tea and water. I have coworkers who refuse to use reusable cups even when they are given one. They use multiple cups a day for coffee. New one each time. Makes me nuts.
Just for an experiment I went grocery shopping with an eye to avoid plastic as much as possible.
Bread - no way to get it without plastic unless I make my own, which ain’t happening.
Breakfast food - instant oatmeal in box with paper packets
Lunchmeat - deli counter meat wrapped in plastic. No go. Plastic tubs of prepackaged OK as I will reuse the containers. Meat inside is in a bit of plastic.
OJ - paper carton
Milk - we have a local dairy that has half gallons in glass sold at a number of the big chains. Oberweis. $4.50 plus $1.50 deposit. The milk is so good!
Veggies - canned instead of frozen to avoid plastic bag.
Relish - get glass jar instead of plastic bottle
Mustard - Grey Poupon in glass jar instead of plastic bottle of regular yellow stuff
Yogurt - quart plastic container instead of little plastic cups
Pasta - cardboard box rather than plastic bag
Shampoo - JR Legetts bar shampoo
Soap - Dr Bronner’s lavender bar. Smells so good. Any bar soap is good but this isn’t wrapped in plastic.
Vinegar - glass bottles rather than plastic
Veggies - I was able to get loose carrots, celery. This isn’t always the case.
Peanut butter - glass jar of natural PB rather than plastic.
Dishwasher detergent - cardboard box
Laundry detergent - got the natural stuff in a big plastic jug. I almost always wash in cold and had major issues in the past using powder (box) before.
Tradd, my friend (I don't eat meat) brings her own reusable container to the deli. They cut,weigh into a paper and then she puts into her own box and affixed the deli price label.
SteveinMN
11-5-18, 10:20am
Laundry detergent - got the natural stuff in a big plastic jug.
Seventh Generation offers some of its laundry detergent (https://www.seventhgeneration.com/4x-concentrated-laundry-detergent-free-clear) in cardboard containers. Unfortunately, the containers still need a plastic liner so the package does not disintegrate, and, therefore, it's not completely biodegradable, but it's still less plastic than the usual jug.
catherine
12-16-18, 9:33pm
Just finished watching the Plastic Plague segment on 60 Minutes. SO disheartening. I was born in 1952, and plastics were just being mass-produced then. And now look at us! In less than 70 years plastics are enmeshed in our days, and are spoiling so much. They showed those albatrosses on Midway--an uninhabited atoll in the middle of the Pacific--who die with bottle caps in their guts.
So discouraging.
Just finished watching the Plastic Plague segment on 60 Minutes. SO disheartening. I was born in 1952, and plastics were just being mass-produced then. And now look at us! In less than 70 years plastics are enmeshed in our days, and are spoiling so much. They showed those albatrosses on Midway--an uninhabited atoll in the middle of the Pacific--who die with bottle caps in their guts.
So discouraging.
I saw that last night too. I do agree with the idea that a clean-up of plastic in the ocean is necessary, but it has to be coupled with the drastic reduction of single-use plastic. As they said, if the bathtub is overflowing then you have to turn off the spigot before you start mopping up the excess water.
Isn't there an effort to make biodegradable plastic from corn or another substance? I don't recall the details but it seemed promising.
pinkytoe
12-17-18, 11:14am
Saw that show yesterday too. Unbelievable...like so many things, it seems to start with the manufacturers desire for profits and government policy. As long as they keep pumping it out, the majority of humans will keep buying it. I bet statistically that the majority of humans could care less about pollution.
Chicken lady
12-17-18, 1:20pm
Statistically, the majority if humans are too busy worrying about how they will make it through the week (day even) to think about pollution. So, yeah.
Teacher Terry
12-17-18, 1:32pm
Laundry detergent used to come in cardboard boxes with no plastic lining. I recorded that show last night to watch today. I have always been concerned with the planet.
For anyone worried about laundry packaging, I urge you to do what we do and make our own laundry detergent. Google the Duggars laundry detergent recipe. Borax and washing soda come in cardboard boxes and you use those boxes very slowly. Soap is the other ingredient, and comes wrapped in paper.
The easiest way to avoid plastic detergent bottles is to make your own.
Teacher Terry
12-17-18, 1:46pm
Too lazy to do that.
Recently I was buying something at CVS. The clerk stuffed the item into a bag before I could stop him. I said, "I don't need the bag," removed the item, and gave him the bag. He then took the bag and threw it in the trash.
At work, I always use a single paper towel to dry my hands. The other day I was observing the sandwich man at the deli counter in the company cafeteria. He would make a sandwich, cut it in half, wipe the blade of the knife once with a paper towel, and throw the paper towel into the trash. The used paper towels were spilling out of a 30-gallon container behind him.
Individual efforts to save the environment will not work. I follow them only out of longstanding habit.
Only legislative action will save us, if we can still be saved. Slap a $1.00 per bottle deposit on plastic bottles and you won't see too many of them lying by the roadside.
But of course, the right would shriek in protest if we tried to do that, because freedum or something.
happystuff
12-18-18, 8:18am
For anyone worried about laundry packaging, I urge you to do what we do and make our own laundry detergent. Google the Duggars laundry detergent recipe. Borax and washing soda come in cardboard boxes and you use those boxes very slowly. Soap is the other ingredient, and comes wrapped in paper.
The easiest way to avoid plastic detergent bottles is to make your own.
I used to do this years ago. Worked very well. I may just make up a batch after the holidays. Thanks for the reminder!
Statistically, the majority if humans are too busy worrying about how they will make it through the week (day even) to think about pollution. So, yeah.
Off-topic.
Chicken lady,
I finally realized that years ago. There's a majority of people who only care about what's happening in their own household or neighborhood, and will never put any time or energy into any of the larger issues. I think liberals fall into the trap of trying to persuade these people with data, when in fact it's just a matter of how these people want to live their lives.
I used to think that if we didn't have a culture of consuming entertainment like sports, celebrities or reality TV, than people would finally pick up a book to educate themselves on serious topics; however, it's my opinion that in our modern history maybe only 25% of people were/are really socially involved. (e.g., how many colonists in the early U.S. cared about whether we had an independent nation or stayed as British subjects, or look at the relatively low voting percentage during the Great Depression. What does it take to get people motivated if even these two monumental events were met with, Eh, it will work itself out and in the meantime I'll just concentrate on me and mine.)
happystuff
12-18-18, 8:57am
Too lazy to do that.
Not directing this at anyone specifically, but I think this sentiment has a lot to do with the situation. It's easier to grab a single plastic bottle of water than to refill a reusable one. Have seen at least two article recently (sorry, can't remember where I saw them for linking purposes), that say we have 12 years to turn the pollution situation around or there will be no turning around.
catherine
12-18-18, 9:15am
Off-topic.
Chicken lady,
I finally realized that years ago. There's a majority of people who only care about what's happening in their own household or neighborhood, and will never put any time or energy into any of the larger issues. I think liberals fall into the trap of trying to persuade these people with data, when in fact it's just a matter of how these people want to live their lives.
I used to think that if we didn't have a culture of consuming entertainment like sports, celebrities or reality TV, than people would finally pick up a book to educate themselves on serious topics; however, it's my opinion that in our modern history maybe only 25% of people were/are really socially involved. (e.g., how many colonists in the early U.S. cared about whether we had an independent nation or stayed as British subjects, or look at the relatively low voting percentage during the Great Depression. What does it take to get people motivated if even these two monumental events were met with, Eh, it will work itself out and in the meantime I'll just concentrate on me and mine.)
I agree with you on this point.
However, with regard to Chicken Lady's post, I think she was saying that it's fine for us liberals to preach at people (I'll speak for myself), but plastic bottles are way down on the priority list for people who are stressed out from everyday life. So it's not a matter of not caring because you don't care--it's a matter of being able to get to a quality of life where you can think about these more global issues. Kind of like Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. First you're going to make sure you have a roof over your head and food on the table. Then you'll worry about the albatrosses on Midway.
pinkytoe
12-18-18, 10:52am
I never thought of curbing pollution or recycling as a liberal way of thought but that's an interesting way to look at it I guess. In my mind, it is about "respect" for our earth and each other. I think a lot of people whether lower income or not have not been raised with that consciousness. You can be as poor as dirt and still have a bit of pride/respect in how you carry on.
Teacher Terry
12-18-18, 11:47am
I recycle, never buy bottled water and carry my own bag into the grocery store. I remember when all the laundry soap was powdered so it came in boxes. I watched the 60 minutes about all the plastic and it was disgusting. California charges you per bag and I am sure it has cut down on the bags. I don’t know why we can’t go back to all paper bags. Something needs to be done at the national level in all countries to really affect change.
catherine
12-18-18, 12:39pm
I never thought of curbing pollution or recycling as a liberal way of thought but that's an interesting way to look at it I guess. In my mind, it is about "respect" for our earth and each other. I think a lot of people whether lower income or not have not been raised with that consciousness. You can be as poor as dirt and still have a bit of pride/respect in how you carry on.
Yeah, I'm just saying that it's easier to be concerned about global issues when your basic needs are cared for. I think that's why "liberals" have earned the moniker "liberal elites"--many tend to be comfortable, economically-speaking.
ApatheticNoMore
12-18-18, 12:50pm
I actually think all that is a lot further from the truth than whether one is raised to care about the environment or not, I actually think that's much of it. So get kids to nature centers! Those programs might actually work, although one day is not enough. Now one may care and make a lot of compromises out of exhaustion or necessity (see no alternative to driving etc.) but that's kind of different (still damaging to the world but derives out of having to live in this society not not caring) as it's hard to live an environmentally responsible life in this society. Who isn't exhausted and overwhelmed btw, that's not a poor people thing, although multi-millionaries may not struggle with it.
Teacher Terry
12-18-18, 1:00pm
Catherine, I totally agree. Thankfully I am not exhausted or overwhelmed APN. I don’t think I would ever describe my life that way. There was a time when I had to give up some leisure activities that I liked because I was busy raising kids and going to college. But life is always about making choices.
Chicken lady
12-18-18, 2:33pm
Catherine was correct. I was speaking globally. When this bottle of water means that my child isn’t going to die of dysentery, sea turtles are not going to cross my mind.
Good points.
I was thinking also of my former co-worker. We worked in an office with the usual coffee, water cooler, and Styrofoam cups set-up. He liked to go to the water cooler several times a day and use a new Styrofoam cup each time. I said something to him once or twice, light-heartedly, about buying his own cup to re-use. His answer was, Nah, I like to do this to tick off the liberals. Which I think meant me since I was the most liberal in the office and the only one who said anything.
So that was a financially comfortable engineer who had associated the slightest environmental effort as being a liberal which he certainly was not and did not want to be associated with. Okay then.
happystuff
12-20-18, 8:19am
Good points.
I was thinking also of my former co-worker. We worked in an office with the usual coffee, water cooler, and Styrofoam cups set-up. He liked to go to the water cooler several times a day and use a new Styrofoam cup each time. I said something to him once or twice, light-heartedly, about buying his own cup to re-use. His answer was, Nah, I like to do this to tick off the liberals. Which I think meant me since I was the most liberal in the office and the only one who said anything.
So that was a financially comfortable engineer who had associated the slightest environmental effort as being a liberal which he certainly was not and did not want to be associated with. Okay then.
Interesting that people don't stop to think that piles of plastic don't care if you are liberal or conservative; effects of climate change don't avoid muslims over catholics. It's the garbage that doesn't care about us - i.e. emotionless stuff.
iris lilies
12-20-18, 9:51am
Good points.
I was thinking also of my former co-worker. We worked in an office with the usual coffee, water cooler, and Styrofoam cups set-up. He liked to go to the water cooler several times a day and use a new Styrofoam cup each time. I said something to him once or twice, light-heartedly, about buying his own cup to re-use. His answer was, Nah, I like to do this to tick off the liberals. Which I think meant me since I was the most liberal in the office and the only one who said anything.
So that was a financially comfortable engineer who had associated the slightest environmental effort as being a liberal which he certainly was not and did not want to be associated with. Okay then.
While myth might attribute concerns of recycling to the liberal mindsent, living as I do in an electric blue city, and seeing what I see in the recycling dumpsters, it is clear to me that so much concern about sustainability is posturing and virture signalling. Were liberals sincerely interested in appropriate trash disposal, I wouldnt constantly be removing styrofoam from the recycling dumpster, plastic trash bags from the green dumpster, tree branches from the landfill dumpster.
I am going thru a little dustup with a friend who is hellbent on having our plant society lectured by Missouri Botanical Garden staff on recycling at the gardens. My attendance at meetings is spotty for just this reason—we have to endure yammering about non-plant society issues. My time has value and I do not wish to be bored. I have 0 interest in “learning” about this, and throw in some sanctimony into the presentation and I am outta there.
iris lilies
12-20-18, 10:19am
For anyone worried about laundry packaging, I urge you to do what we do and make our own laundry detergent. Google the Duggars laundry detergent recipe. Borax and washing soda come in cardboard boxes and you use those boxes very slowly. Soap is the other ingredient, and comes wrapped in paper.
The easiest way to avoid plastic detergent bottles is to make your own.
I wouldn't say the easiest way to avoid plastic detergent bottles is to make your own.
We just buy powdered detergent in boxes. THAT is easy.
pinkytoe
12-20-18, 11:13am
I don't know if it is just stores here or what but it is almost impossible to find dishwasher or laundry detergent in cardboard boxes. It is either plastic or pods.
iris lilies
12-20-18, 11:22am
I don't know if it is just stores here or what but it is almost impossible to find dishwasher or laundry detergent in cardboard boxes. It is either plastic or pods. I agree in that our store doesnt seem to stock many boxes of Tide, it is mostly liquid stuff. But boxed detergent is on the bottom shelf.
I have found I enjoy not having to buy the boxed, even in cardboard, which is how it came when I was a kid. I have a 5 gallon bucket in the laundry room where we make the detergent. So when it's empty, we make more detergent. There is no disposal of the cardboard, and it only takes about 20 minutes to make the detergent, which lasts a couple of months.
To me, that is easier and a neater solution than shopping, with less to throw away, but YMMV.
I was thinking the other day about The Graduate movie where the sage business man whispers into the recent graduates ear about the great future in plastics. Sort of a famous line in the day. And then when you would be offered the choice between plastic and paper and you would save a tree and pick plastic. Seems like just in the last several months plastics have become the new environmental battle. I took my plastic bags to a new trendy grocery store to recycle. They told me they didn't have a recycle program for plastic bag because they only offered paper bags. I guess they didn't notice all their rolls of plastic bags to bag produce.
happystuff
12-30-18, 10:20am
I made my own produce bags out of some netting-type material and I have also seen sets for sale in my grocery store. I haven't researched it, but I have been told that the material on the newer kind of reusable bags is also extremely hard to compost. I'm not accepting any more - even if free - and am going back to my cloth bags. I, personally, just feel better using the cloth over any of the other stuff any more.
Teacher Terry
8-23-19, 12:21am
So my son was saying now that China is no longer taking our plastic most ends up in landfills. I have been recycling for 30 years so researched it and yes only 9% of plastics we put in recycling doesn’t end up in the landfill. Plus if you put the lid on a plastic bottle it goes to the landfill since it cannot be recycled. Pretty depressing. When I lived in a small condo I had a bin in my extra bedroom for recycling, had to drive it across town and sort it.
Here is a helpful PBS pictorial on recycling; I wonder too how much of the oil we are fracking ends up as plastic:
http://apps.npr.org/plastics-recycling/
Teacher Terry
8-23-19, 11:35am
So after some research it appears not even all paper is being recycled anymore. Mostly just cans and glass. The point is not what is being accepted but what the recycling company is doing with it. So we feel good filling our recycling bin and it’s ending up in a landfill anyway.
Chicken lady
8-23-19, 12:10pm
Yes Teacher Terry, the point is NOT to fill the recycling bin. The point is to have as little trash OR recycling as possible. But still, opt for recyclables over trash, and put the recyclables in the recycling as accurately as possible. 9% is still better than none.
i don’t have trash service, so I take my trash back to the grocery store and throw it in the can next to the carts. Usually in a large chip bag. Because dh isn’t going to give up bagged chips. I also recycle appropriate plastic bags in their bag collection. I drop my recycling off about once a month in the municipality where I work. They take 1% of my paycheck for “services” so I feel entitled to use some.
i am lucky that I have a large garden and can actually use plain cardboard boxes for mulch underlayment. I can burn wax coated paper - often in the winter I use a piece or two to start the wood stove. I have an artsy/crafty reuse store that will accept many items and is actively soliciting jar lids and bottle caps to be turned into benches.
bottled water drives me crazy. I will only drink it when medically necessary. Even if you have to buy packaged water for some reason - distilled water in gallons is cheaper and healthier.
i try to shop with an eye to what will happen to the thing when I am done with it. But some days I get so overwhelmed I can’t even buy something.
Teacher Terry
8-23-19, 12:54pm
We don’t buy bottled water. We save plastic soda bottles and fill with water to take with us. My husband drinks a ton of soda, my milk is in plastic as are many other things. I was really upset when my son gave me the news. I won’t quit recycling but it’s discouraging.
I only buy bottled water for when I’m diving at the quarry. No potable water on site.
I use gallons of distilled at home for my Neti pot.
dado potato
8-23-19, 7:41pm
Perhaps recycling is a possibility. I have 5 pieces of outdoor furniture made from recycled milk jugs, and when I need to replace decking I can use Trex instead of wood lumber.
I am very happy with the durability and color-fastness of my Trex outdoor furniture. (It wasn't the cheapest option, obviously.)
There is a brand of carpet, ( "Karastan" maybe?) made from recycled plastic. I have seen pictures of these carpets that look quite aesthetically pleasing. It may be less of a pleasure to walk barefoot on the carpets, I just don't know.
It is an immense problem (and opportunity) to design/produce/market useful and beautiful goods that are made with recycled plastic.
dado potato
8-23-19, 7:49pm
P. S. For 9 years and counting, I have been using 2 bins to compost kitchen and yard waste. These bins were made of recycled plastic.
Idea: Crate Credit. What if Amazon offered durable recycled / reusable packaging containers with a deposit, like my milk bottles, and when they drop off a package you give them back the old crate from the last delivery, for credit? Granted the stuff inside the package would still contain waste, but at least that outer shell could keep on going and going ... Reusing was always more eco-efficient than recycling anyway; if recycling is becoming obsolete, surely we need to shift to manufactured goods that aren't designed to be immediately disposable. If we insist on buying new junk every day, at least we could stop buying new packaging for it!
iris lilies
12-14-19, 5:09pm
I hate this time of year For all of the plastic. At the grocery store I wanted to buy a bottle of Jamison Iris Whiskey. . The only bottles they had were special holiday edition that had some kind of sports team plastic crap attached to the bottle. So hey Jamison, I didn’t buy your product. I don’t want a forced piece of junk. The other choice the store had was Glen Levitt scotch whiskey, but DH was with me and he will bitch and moan if I spend $53 on a bottle of Scotch.
So I left the grocery store Scotch-less.
SteveinMN
12-15-19, 9:12am
So hey Jamison, I didn’t buy your product. I don’t want a forced piece of junk. The other choice the store had was Glen Levitt scotch whiskey, but DH was with me and he will bitch and moan if I spend $53 on a bottle of Scotch.
Okay, here in the north we can't buy anything stronger than 3.2 beer in a grocery store, so being able to buy distilled spirits in the same store that sells cake mixes and fresh meat is an order-of-magnitude advance in civilization. But just two choices of whiskey? Was this a Kwik-E-Mart? ;) And may I introduce you to this concoction called bourbon?
JaneV2.0
12-15-19, 11:16am
Okay, here in the north we can't buy anything stronger than 3.2 beer in a grocery store, so being able to buy distilled spirits in the same store that sells cake mixes and fresh meat is an order-of-magnitude advance in civilization. But just two choices of whiskey? Was this a Kwik-E-Mart? ;) And may I introduce you to this concoction called bourbon?
Washington--coerced by Costco money--now sells grocery store booze. I used to occasionally go to the state liquor store and look around, maybe buy brandy and a few one-serving bottles for cooking or to taste. I don't think I've bought anything since the law changed. At Safeway, if you stand in front of their locked liquor display, you'll soon hear "Customer service in the liquor department (substance abuse, aisle 6 :~))" over the loudspeaker, and then you wait for some callow kid to show up with the keys. Not to mention the price (last I looked) has gone way up, and a lot of decently-paid state jobs are no more. I'll probably restock some day, but what an unpleasant experience it's become.
Washington--coerced by Costco money--now sells grocery store booze.It's funny how different states deal with the sale of liquor. My neighborhood Kroger has a very well stocked liquor store just behind the produce section while they display their beer and wine within the store proper.
I'm not sure if it still happens but when I first moved to Ohio 40+ years ago, and being just a couple of miles north of the Ohio River, state liquor agents used to watch the Kentucky liquor stores for Ohio residents stocking up on liquor in the bourbon capital of the world and transporting their haul across state lines.
iris lilies
12-15-19, 11:33am
Okay, here in the north we can't buy anything stronger than 3.2 beer in a grocery store, so being able to buy distilled spirits in the same store that sells cake mixes and fresh meat is an order-of-magnitude advance in civilization. But just two choices of whiskey? Was this a Kwik-E-Mart? ;) And may I introduce you to this concoction called bourbon?
There was only two choices of UK whiskey. I really don’t know anything about the American whiskey and bourbon that filled 3/4 of the shelves so I wasn’t able to make a choice. Yes, sometime I need to try bourbon.
Yeah, it kind of surprises me that here in the Bible belt where there are mega churches every 3 miles, I’m able to buy liquor wherever I want and I think whenever I want. There was once a limit on grocery stores selling liquor before noon on Sunday but I dont think thats in force any more.
iris lilies
12-15-19, 11:34am
A couple years ago I went to Kentucky for a training thing, and after it was over I wanted a drink. Nope! It was a dry county.
I hadn’t realized those things still existed.
pinkytoe
12-15-19, 11:48am
We had to get used to the archaic liquor laws here in Colorado. Just this past year, they allowed regular strength beer in some grocery stores. Yet there are medical pot stores all over the place.
A couple years ago I went to Kentucky for a training thing, and after it was over I wanted a drink. Nope! It was a dry county.
I hadn’t realized those things still existed.I think about a quarter of Kentucky counties are still dry, with another quarter or so being barely moist.
Teacher Terry
12-15-19, 12:24pm
In our grocery stores only really expensive liquor is locked up. You can buy it 24-7. I hate all the packing materials on small items like my allergy medication. I guess they are trying to make it to big to steal. A few times Omaha steaks offered a special on their products. The meat comes packed in dry ice and a styrofoam container. After the second order I realized I couldn’t recycle the styrofoam. That was it for me. Now that I am reading on kindle I figured that saves some trees.
SteveinMN
12-15-19, 4:28pm
A couple years ago I went to Kentucky for a training thing, and after it was over I wanted a drink. Nope! It was a dry county.
I hadn’t realized those things still existed.
It's disappearing, slowly. Slowly. The county in which Jack Daniels' distillery is located is (still) dry. Apparently they've carved out enough exceptions to the law that the distillery no longer has to offer people taking the plant tour just lemonade. But you can't sit down and buy yourself a glass of JD's craft anywhere in the county in which the distillery is located.
Minnesota now has the distinction of being the only remaining state with a market for 3.2 beer. There is an annual effort made by the supermarket and convenience store owners to drop that law and allow the sale of "strong" beer, wine, and spirits in such stores, but the liquor-store lobby seems to prevail every time by threatening that, if you can buy alcohol where you can buy food, tiny liquor stores will go bankrupt and children will be laying in the gutters, intoxicated. Since where I live I simply have to cross the parking lot from the supermarket to get to a real (and decent) liquor store, I just watch with some amusement.
A few times Omaha steaks offered a special on their products. The meat comes packed in dry ice and a styrofoam container. After the second order I realized I couldn’t recycle the styrofoam. That was it for me.
We gave my brother a gift of Omaha Steaks one year. Not only is the packaging -- umm -- omnipresent but it seemed we were getting mail from them almost weekly on some special deal or gift-giving occasion or such. The trees which dedicated their lives to that effort should be remembered fondly. We finally got a hold of someone who turned off the spigot. That was it for us.
iris lilies
12-15-19, 4:42pm
I want to know what happens to these new style artificial Christmas trees that have lights in bedded on the Tips? What happens with those lights invariably go out as they will? The people toss out the entire tree? I just don’t know.
catherine
12-15-19, 7:17pm
We gave my brother a gift of Omaha Steaks one year.
Holiday story related to Omaha Steaks... my MIL worked in Macy's with a man named Harold. They would exchange gifts.. nothing big.. But one Christmas, a package came to the door, and my MIL opened it up and the box said Omaha Steaks.. so she put them in the freezer, delighted to get them. So when she spoke to Harold on the phone she said, "Thank you so much for the steaks, Harold!" And he murmured something like "oh.. huh? oh, yeah. Sure."
A couple of months later, MIL and BIL had a yearning for a steak so they took the Omaha Steak box out of the freezer and opened up, only to find.... a calendar! Harold only used the box to pack his gift in, which was just a calendar. They laughed about that for years.
As for liquor laws, NJ has fairly restrictive ones. No alcohol can be sold in grocery stores or convenience stores or anything that is not a designated liquor store with a liquor license. That includes beer and wine. Some supermarkets get away with it by adding on a liquor store to the main store, but that's as close as you can get to selling alcohol in anything but a liquor store.
So when I came to Vermont, or to any other state for that matter, and saw alcohol being sold everywhere and anywhere, it seemed very strange. In Japan, they go one further. They sell alcohol in vending machines in hotels and even on the streets.
Ocean Grove, where I've stayed before, and am staying this winter, is a dry town, but Asbury Park is a short walk away across a little bridge.
iris lilies
12-15-19, 8:06pm
State liquor stores are all about the state sucking up all the profits of liquor.
When I cross the border into Iowa From Missouri I can hear the giant Slurpee sucking sounds.
Ohio has drive through liquor stores. Drive up, order, pay, and drive away with your beer. Just like McDonalds.
Ohio has drive through liquor stores. Drive up, order, pay, and drive away with your beer. Just like McDonalds.
I can attest to that! But we're not the only state that allows you to drive into the building, fill your car with beer and drive away, I believe we're one of about 30 states which allow it.
Our Canadian friends were astounded by such an arrangement. 😄
I am always amused and amazed how threads evolve. Could you ever have imagined that a thread talking about plastics has evolved into a thread about access to alcohol. It does make this site interesting and informative.
Have to agree with Tammy. Years ago when we were taking our kids camping in NY state, we were surprised by the amount and variety of alcohol available in local corner stores in small towns when we shopped for our daily supplies.
I am always amused and amazed how threads evolve. Could you ever have imagined that a thread talking about plastics has evolved into a thread about access to alcohol. It does make this site interesting and informative.
Right? I clicked on this thread to see what else I could learn. Too funny!
Since we opened the door beyond plastics, last night I flew home from PA where I was visiting my mom. (Now i know flying is about the most environmentally unfriendly thing most people personally do, but I'm trying to mitigate that as best I can by minding the little things.) I didn't want a plastic cup. The flight attendant wouldn't give me a full can of tomato juice because she was limited, fine, but she also wouldn't pour a serving into my own travel mug "because then you could claim we put something poisonous in it". Really? That's a big worry for me, thank goodness you addressed it, but couldn't I tamper with the cup you give me just as well as I could poison myself with my own cup? I finally declined the beverage entirely, and she gave me a bag of pretzels and a napkin. When I said I didn't need the napkin, she literally said, "That's just the way we do it, we've always done it that way" and refused to take the napkin back. Ok, Boomer. :treadmill:
catherine
12-17-19, 1:44pm
Since we opened the door beyond plastics, last night I flew home from PA where I was visiting my mom. (Now i know flying is about the most environmentally unfriendly thing most people personally do, but I'm trying to mitigate that as best I can by minding the little things.) I didn't want a plastic cup. The flight attendant wouldn't give me a full can of tomato juice because she was limited, fine, but she also wouldn't pour a serving into my own travel mug "because then you could claim we put something poisonous in it". Really? That's a big worry for me, thank goodness you addressed it, but couldn't I tamper with the cup you give me just as well as I could poison myself with my own cup? I finally declined the beverage entirely, and she gave me a bag of pretzels and a napkin. When I said I didn't need the napkin, she literally said, "That's just the way we do it, we've always done it that way" and refused to take the napkin back. Ok, Boomer. :treadmill:
I grapple with my conscience a lot when I fly.. and yes, there is a ton of plastic waste on planes. The only way you could get around the plastic cups frugally and without plastic is to bring your own bottle and fill it up if you can find a filtered water fountain in the airport after you get through TSA. (Good luck with that). I have to admit that I do purchase water to carry on, but some places sell boxed water, so that's better than plastic bottles at least.
As far as napkins go, I think they're trying to keep the little tray tables from getting dirty.
On one of my recent flights, and not a big one--a puddle jumper to the NYC area--the pilot actually announced how much fuel it was going to take to get us there. It was like seeing the calories you get on menus these days--instant guilt. Then when I went to Japan, all I could think of was "If it takes almost 3,000 gallons of fuel to go 500 miles, how much does it take to go 6000 miles??? (And the answer...36,000 freakin' gallons!!).
iris lilies
12-17-19, 2:03pm
State liquor stores are all about the state sucking up all the profits of liquor.
When I cross the border into Iowa From Missouri I can hear the giant Slurpee sucking sounds.
DH says I am wrong about Iowa, they got rid of state liquor stores decades ago.
Teacher Terry
12-17-19, 2:06pm
When we take a cruise we carry around travel mugs for water. The amount of plastic that gets thrown away is incredible. If you buy a soft drink package they give you one to keep refilling.
[QUOTE=catherine;340239
As far as napkins go, I think they're trying to keep the little tray tables from getting dirty.
On one of my recent flights, and not a big one--a puddle jumper to the NYC area--the pilot actually announced how much fuel it was going to take to get us there. It was like seeing the calories you get on menus these days--instant guilt. Then when I went to Japan, all I could think of was "If it takes almost 3,000 gallons of fuel to go 500 miles, how much does it take to go 6000 miles??? (And the answer...36,000 freakin' gallons!!).[/QUOTE]
Well I did find this, so maybe we're not doing so bad as we think:
https://science.howstuffworks.com/transport/flight/modern/question192.htm
A plane like a Boeing 747 uses approximately 1 gallon of fuel (about 4 liters) every second. Over the course of a 10-hour flight, it might burn 36,000 gallons (150,000 liters). According to Boeing's Web site, the 747 burns approximately 5 gallons of fuel per mile (12 liters per kilometer).
This sounds like a tremendously poor miles-per-gallon rating! But consider that a 747 can carry as many as 568 people. Let's call it 500 people to take into account the fact that not all seats on most flights are occupied. A 747 is transporting 500 people 1 mile using 5 gallons of fuel. That means the plane is burning 0.01 gallons per person per mile. In other words, the plane is getting 100 miles per gallon per person! The typical car gets about 25 miles per gallon, so the 747 is much better than a car carrying one person, and compares favorably even if there are four people in the car. Not bad when you consider that the 747 is flying at 550 miles per hour (900 km/h)!
Of course it's still nowhere near as fuel efficient as staying home!
- and yes, keeping those little trays clean, but I declined the beverage ... how much cleaner is a napkin going to make a bag of pretzels???
This morning I was watching one of the local news affiliates to check on weather, how many shootings there were overnight, etc.
Well, the station is doing their annual Christmas toy drive, and I'm not sure whether to feel guilty about my reaction or not. The studio was filled nearly to the ceiling.
Here's the thing: I know other stations in town are doing the same thing, as are churches and other non-profits. Just looking at the pile in the studio, all I could think of was SO. MUCH. PLASTIC. CRAP.
Then, on my way in to work the public radio station was doing a story on cheap plastic toys (e.g. Hatchimals) that kids get a thrill out of for a day, then they get lost and forgotten, ending up in landfills.
I'm not sure where I'm going with this, except I'm feeling really conflicted about these toy drives. I know it's "the season," but how much is too much? Is there really such a need? Is anyone considering where all this crap ends up?
Maybe this belongs on a thread of its own---feel free to move if you wish, mods.
All my family and most of my friends live in state, most of my favorite recreations are relatively close, and I no longer travel for work so my air travel is limited, but I have friends who fly often for both work and pleasure. They buy carbon offsets to make travel net zero carbon emissions. It's not the equivalent of not flying at all in my opinion, but it's at east and effort to compensate for the air travel. The Wash Post had a recent article about how it works out. https://www.washingtonpost.com/travel/tips/questions-about-carbon-offsets-flights-answered/
ApatheticNoMore
12-17-19, 4:59pm
The plane travel calculations may be biased by the fact it's a 10 hour flight being used. Shorter plane trips are less efficient per mile than longer plane trips I've heard, so a two hour plane trip compared to the drive ... But yea I don't know, I've certainly seen numbers showing both trains and cars are more efficient than planes.
And then there are other complications that some would figure in:
https://e360.yale.edu/features/how-airplane-contrails-are-helping-make-the-planet-warmer
This morning I was watching one of the local news affiliates to check on weather, how many shootings there were overnight, etc.
Well, the station is doing their annual Christmas toy drive, and I'm not sure whether to feel guilty about my reaction or not. The studio was filled nearly to the ceiling.
Here's the thing: I know other stations in town are doing the same thing, as are churches and other non-profits. Just looking at the pile in the studio, all I could think of was SO. MUCH. PLASTIC. CRAP.
Then, on my way in to work the public radio station was doing a story on cheap plastic toys (e.g. Hatchimals) that kids get a thrill out of for a day, then they get lost and forgotten, ending up in landfills.
I'm not sure where I'm going with this, except I'm feeling really conflicted about these toy drives. I know it's "the season," but how much is too much? Is there really such a need? Is anyone considering where all this crap ends up?
I have this same feeling of conflict about so much that's going on. I look at so many good-hearted initiatives and struggle between feeling like a real witch for having a negative reaction, feeling upset because I want to participate but I don't want to participate in THIS, and finally rolling my eyes and wanting to shake people for being so mindless. "The poor should be able to be as wasteful and obtuse as anyone else" ... yeah, I believe in equality, but this just doesn't have a good beat and I can't dance to it.
ApatheticNoMore
12-17-19, 6:21pm
I cut them some slack, they are kids, we had whole lego sets of plastic back in the day afterall. I don't donate, but I don't donate to charity generally.
I cut them some slack, they are kids, we had whole lego sets of plastic back in the day afterall. I'll bet someone is still using at least half of them today.
I really want to cut them slack because yes, for this holiday, one kid absolutely deserves to play, to feel special or loved or remembered or just equally as important and rewarded as any other kid. And a little bit of Loot is, yeah, I'll admit it, part of the holiday spirit. I don't expect anyone to sing praises of socks and an orange. But ... I don't really cut anyone slack, including myself, when it comes to the conspicuous consumption of crap. I want to see everyone scale back a bit. "Slack" in the form of supporting gross overindulgence for all really ramps up cognitive dissonance, at least for me.
iris lilies
12-17-19, 8:40pm
This morning I was watching one of the local news affiliates to check on weather, how many shootings there were overnight, etc.
Well, the station is doing their annual Christmas toy drive, and I'm not sure whether to feel guilty about my reaction or not. The studio was filled nearly to the ceiling.
Here's the thing: I know other stations in town are doing the same thing, as are churches and other non-profits. Just looking at the pile in the studio, all I could think of was SO. MUCH. PLASTIC. CRAP.
Then, on my way in to work the public radio station was doing a story on cheap plastic toys (e.g. Hatchimals) that kids get a thrill out of for a day, then they get lost and forgotten, ending up in landfills.
I'm not sure where I'm going with this, except I'm feeling really conflicted about these toy drives. I know it's "the season," but how much is too much? Is there really such a need? Is anyone considering where all this crap ends up?
Maybe this belongs on a thread of its own---feel free to move if you wish, mods.
Oh honey I got sick of the stupid toy drives years ago with the rooms piled to the ceiling with plastic crap. It’s disgusting. Thing is, kids need so much more than this cheap plastic crap but shopping for the crap is what donors like.
Just like I get annoyed at the folks who put out on Nextdoor two days before
thanksgiving that they want to work and serve at at soup kitchen on T-DAY. It just occurs to them to grace the poor and homeless with their presence two days before.
Chicken lady
12-17-19, 10:56pm
We buy for a christmas drive every year. i agree about the plastic crap. I won’t do operation Christmas child because of the packaging/shipping/environmental impact for cost.
we have some rules - no batteries. Nothing we wouldn’t buy our own child/grandchild. Good quality, natural or recycled materials when possible, classic, timeless, durable...
this year we did babies. I confess to buying plastic fiber blend hats and two adorable artificial fiber stuffed rattle toys, but we also bought wood and silicone toys and classic board books (used in new condition)
I grapple with my conscience a lot when I fly.. and yes, there is a ton of plastic waste on planes. The only way you could get around the plastic cups frugally and without plastic is to bring your own bottle and fill it up if you can find a filtered water fountain in the airport after you get through TSA. (Good luck with that). I have to admit that I do purchase water to carry on, but some places sell boxed water, so that's better than plastic bottles at least.
As far as napkins go, I think they're trying to keep the little tray tables from getting dirty.
On one of my recent flights, and not a big one--a puddle jumper to the NYC area--the pilot actually announced how much fuel it was going to take to get us there. It was like seeing the calories you get on menus these days--instant guilt. Then when I went to Japan, all I could think of was "If it takes almost 3,000 gallons of fuel to go 500 miles, how much does it take to go 6000 miles??? (And the answer...36,000 freakin' gallons!!).
A couple of thoughts. First, if you are flying from/through SFO beware that you can no longer buy bottled water in the airport. The soda lobby must be more powerful than the water lobby because you can still buy a plastic bottle of soda there.
Second, 6 gallons per mile seems like a lot at first glance, but how many passengers were on the plane? if there were 150, for instance, that would be 25 mpg per passenger.
Teacher Terry
12-18-19, 12:41am
I buy books or wooden puzzles for the toy drives.
JaneV2.0
12-18-19, 10:31am
There used to be a yearly "giving tree" here where you could buy small gifts for adults, so I chose to do that. I happened to walk by one of those kiddie Christmas giveaways one year, and it was the very definition of bedlam. I hope most of them are better managed. Why can't charities just make gifts available for parents to shop among, and allow for some dignity?
I buy books for the toy drives myself.
happystuff
6-26-20, 2:06pm
During this pandemic, job issues, being at home so much, etc., I've come to realize that I have traded one "demon" for another - the resultant "demon" being bottled seltzer. I've only been buying about a case every 2-3 weeks, but that is still way more plastic than we've had to recycle in a long time. So, I am jumping back on this challenge. We have a filtered water pitcher in the fridge and I found one of those infusion bottles (you can put pieces of fruit or teas or whatever in a cage and insert the whole thing in the bottle with water). I'm going to start trying different seasonal fruits and veggies, and see what I like.
frugal-one
6-26-20, 5:17pm
During this pandemic, job issues, being at home so much, etc., I've come to realize that I have traded one "demon" for another - the resultant "demon" being bottled seltzer. I've only been buying about a case every 2-3 weeks, but that is still way more plastic than we've had to recycle in a long time. So, I am jumping back on this challenge. We have a filtered water pitcher in the fridge and I found one of those infusion bottles (you can put pieces of fruit or teas or whatever in a cage and insert the whole thing in the bottle with water). I'm going to start trying different seasonal fruits and veggies, and see what I like.
Please post your successes!!!
happystuff
6-27-20, 10:18am
Please post your successes!!!
I will! It may take a bit though, as I've only gotten through 1 experiment so far - dried apples. I let the bottle sit overnight in the fridge and tasted this morning. Not bad! More flavor than I expected. On to the next - LOL.
rosarugosa
6-27-20, 2:07pm
Happystuff: if you ever core pineapples, the core is good for infusing. It has the right flavor but is too tough to eat.
happystuff
6-28-20, 8:43am
Happystuff: if you ever core pineapples, the core is good for infusing. It has the right flavor but is too tough to eat.
Thanks! I haven't bought a fresh pineapple in a while; I just may get one to try.
Strawberries, lemon lime, watermelon, blackberries........yum!
We can no longer recycle plastic water type bottles here even if they are #1 or #2. I'm glad we're not accustomed to those!
happystuff
6-29-20, 10:55am
Thanks, Gardnr! Actually, had some dried strawberries yesterday - yum! Actually added more flavor to the water than I thought they would. Making an Asian Cucumber Salad today, so may put a few pieces of cucumber in next.
I will! It may take a bit though, as I've only gotten through 1 experiment so far - dried apples. I let the bottle sit overnight in the fridge and tasted this morning. Not bad! More flavor than I expected. On to the next - LOL.
Have now done dried apples, dried strawberries and fresh blueberries. The apples had a very light - almost imperceptible flavor. The strawberries were a bit stronger. The fresh blueberries had no flavor, but I think that is because I did not pierce the skins. I have since done that and will see if there is any change.
This isn't going as well has I had hoped, but I have a lot of fruits and veggies left to try. And I am, at least, getting enough water every day. LOL
I've gone off plastic from the example of people who are nonegotiable about it. First was the book No Impact Man. Then a friend who drinks water anywhere only out of a washed-out food bottle, and one who in a nice way refused a drink of water at a celebration, explaining when asked that it was because it came from a plastic jug. People who don't think twice about doing it when it's hard. Last winter in Santa Fe, where I live, a woman opened a store called the Soap Refill Station, which is about more than soap and mainly about using everything that needs a container in glass, which you can buy from her or, like me, bring your own glass jars. Now I don't have to buy any of these in plastic: shampoo, dish soap, laundry soap, hand soap, and she sells other things made of bamboo: (toothbrush, dish (tiny broom style) scrubber, bottle brush. I several months ago a friend told me he doesn't use toothpaste or powder for his teeth, just a toothbrush ten times in each tooth. He's beendoing it 10 years with no cavities. So no more of all that for me and my teeth actually feel cleaner. IF I'm buying a food or supplement thing, if there's a choice of buying it in a glass or plastic jar, I get the glass one. So bit by bit I chip away at it. Sometimes I think, how would I explain it to a fish if I got something in plastic, and how would I feel about all this if I were a fish myself.
larknm - I love the idea of taking my jars and filling them. There used to be a small "natural" store in the area many, many years ago that I could do that, but it has long closed. And I read the same thing about brushing teeth in the Tightwad Gazette years ago as well. Another of Amy D's experiments. lol
Interesting NPR piece a friend posted on FB.
https://www.npr.org/2020/09/11/897692090/how-big-oil-misled-the-public-into-believing-plastic-would-be-recycled?utm_campaign=storyshare&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR2ew8z7fwikV3LQwYSFZ0_WhSAqBBWy-jPRI-bzv_nvfqy0ZkMBarHQw-I
catherine
9-12-20, 10:55pm
Interesting NPR piece a friend posted on FB.
https://www.npr.org/2020/09/11/897692090/how-big-oil-misled-the-public-into-believing-plastic-would-be-recycled?utm_campaign=storyshare&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_medium=social&fbclid=IwAR2ew8z7fwikV3LQwYSFZ0_WhSAqBBWy-jPRI-bzv_nvfqy0ZkMBarHQw-I
Very discouraging.
I don't know how we get out of the plastics mess... I was thinking about it today--I've been ordering stuff online that I need for the house and/or the wedding and there's so much plastic in the packaging! And one of those things I bought was a kitchen organizer. So as I was re-organizing my pantry, I pulled out the plastics: the plastic garbage bags, the plastic freezer bags, the plastic sandwich bags. And I like all those bags! Yes, I could use glass containers or beeswax covers, and I do, but the plastic bags are so much more convenient. And obviously, who would consider NOT using a plastic garbage bag in their garbage cans? I think when I was young, we just threw trash in the garbage cans with no bags, but that seems so icky now.
Vermont has outlawed plastic shopping bags, which is great. It has forced alternatives, namely the reusable bags that I have a ton of but would frequently forget to use. Now I don't forget as often. I have a big tote bag I use as a purse now so that if I go into a store and forget a bag, I can put quite a few things right in my tote.
It's frustrating to read that once again we're duped into feel-good beliefs set up by corporations, like "I can feel good about myself because I recycle my plastic." I think if I am serious about doing something to mitigate plastic pollution, I need to think harder about how to practice ALL the R's that come before "recycle": Refuse, Reduce, Reuse, Repurpose." Recycle should be the last step, not the first.
Thanks for the article, Tradd.
Teacher Terry
9-12-20, 11:23pm
We never put our garbage in the can without a bag. I think we used paper bags. I did buy glass see through bowls with lids for leftovers. Still plastic is everywhere. Since the virus started we aren’t allowed to use our own bags.
happystuff
9-13-20, 10:00am
I have several of these and keep one clipped on my backpack and purse all the time:
3435
We are allowed to use our own bags at the various stores, but have to pack them ourselves - which I don't have a problem with. I agree the plastic is still everywhere. I'm still trying to not buy so much stuff in plastic, but it is hard. I'm also starting to use more of the glass jars for stuff once they are emptied and cleaned, instead of recycling all of them or running out to get more canning jars. It may not be much, but it's something.
happystuff
9-13-20, 10:21am
Thanks for the article, Tradd. The very last line reads like a death sentence to me:
"Analysts now expect plastic production to triple by 2050."
ApatheticNoMore
9-13-20, 12:46pm
And obviously, who would consider NOT using a plastic garbage bag in their garbage cans? I think when I was young, we just threw trash in the garbage cans with no bags, but that seems so icky now.
If you take paper grocery bags (and you could instead of a reusable bag in order to get them for this purpose) you could try using them for trash. I mean I generally do, but it's a pain.
There is basically nowhere to recycle anymore even for things more readily recycled like glass or metal or paper so I've given up. I mean I tried driving miles away for recycling before (that was closed half the time because even though I got there within their open hours they had closed early). But in the pandemic, too ridiculous by far. Plastic may not be recyclable, but want us to recycle glass etc., make it not an impossible pain to do so. Oh sure they still charge us taxes to recycle stuff it's now near impossible to find anywhere to recycle but that's just because they enjoy taxing us just because.
happystuff
9-14-20, 7:39am
Now that someone mentioned it, I remember using paper bags as garbage bags when I was a kid. We used to wrap good waste in newspapers. Nowadays I compost food waste, but I think I will take some paper bags every now and then and give this a try.
Now that someone mentioned it, I remember using paper bags as garbage bags when I was a kid. We used to wrap good waste in newspapers. Nowadays I compost food waste, but I think I will take some paper bags every now and then and give this a try.
The senior lady I grocery shop for still uses paper grocery bags for trash can liners. She makes sure I ask for her groceries to be in paper rather than plastic.
But if you use communal dumpsters, etc., using paper may not be possible. My complex mandates sealed plastic bags to help keep out critters.
But if you use communal dumpsters, etc., using paper may not be possible. My complex mandates sealed plastic bags to help keep out critters.
So does our garbage collection company. In fact, everything has to be in a plastic bag or you may get a nastygram from the company.
Chicken lady
9-16-20, 8:41am
My trash is not icky.
i am a vegetarian who recycles, composts and has chickens. My trash is broken things and food packaging and packing tape. Most of it goes into the waste basket in my classroom or the trash can by the gas pump. My boss said I can use the classroom wastebasket if it is not full at the end of the day. It’s never full at the end of the day. Sometimes I hide it so the janitor won’t change the plastic bag for seven glue covered Popsicle sticks and a paper towel.
I have been working hard to reduce the plastic in my life, but curbside pick up has created a big challenge. The gas pump trash can is owned by the grocery store that keeps putting plastic in my curbside pick up. I only use it when I am pumping gas.
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