using my experience to teach

[Zoe Girl]

I am feeling that my experience with a breakdown was pretty significant to me. I keep coming back to how this impacts and how it can be part of my life moving forward in a positive way. Then I remembered a very important course I took, Youth Mental Health First Aid. They have an adult course too. I would love to become an instructor in this program. I know one person who is an instructor so I have someone to ask about how it is to teach (like do you make money). There is not a training in my area for the rest of 2018, one early December in Salt Lake, and it costs about $2,000.

Just not sure, I think I am needing to transition totally out of my field to more training of adults honestly. I am liking my program so far but thinking long term I need to make changes.

[iris lilies]

Here is my gut reaction:

1) Why, when there are masters and doctorate level therapists a dime a dozen all around us, would a one time training in a mental health technique be valuable to clients in crises? Why would you be special? Seriously, who are these people who have distilled a large body of knowledge (brain science and psychology) into a single training session? * It is a bit of a mockery of this profession of therapy, IMHO.

2) no one makes real money with only 8 hours training of any kind under their belt. No one will make real money with only this course. Please be realistic. Please.

3) ask yourself: what is this credential really good for, who accepts it, what do you really do with it?

If you are taking it soley to expanding your knowledge base, great! (Unless the course is crank.) But everything you say above sounds like you intend to turn it into a professional opportunity and make money and seek status with it. Seriously, stop and think about this. This sounds like your mediation effort all over again, an effort that seemed unrealistic for you and that made you unhappy and unfullfilled because you didnt practice in that field.

I am already deeply skeptical about the ability of the average therapist to affect meaningful change, and this just seems like another another flavor of therapy, therapy-lite from the profession that already has minimal measures. As an aside, I find it scary to see how little training is really required before Masters and Phd level candidates start in with clients. Ugh.

4) be aware of flirting with mental health modalities because they are attractive due to your own health treatment

* i looked up this service and it gives 8 hours of training. Some would say that is reaaaaaaaaallly pricey for a credential that seems to do—what, exactly?

There are just my own thoughts, none of which is necessarily true for you.

Bottom lime: talk to your therapist about this. You now have a support person who is on your side and who knows
something about this biz. There are supposedly professional standards about therapists in crises treating other people, but from what I can see of that world, that is a pretty easy line to cross. Dont be the person who thinks they are an exception. The client is everything.

[Tammy]

I think mental health first aid is for use in disasters, like after a hurricane, and I think the people are often volunteers.

I would only do this is the training were free or if my job paid for it, and only if I wanted to volunteer.

[iris lilies]

I think mental health first aid is for use in disasters, like after a hurricane, and I think the people are often volunteers.

I would only do this is the training were free or if my job paid for it, and only if I wanted to volunteer.

Ah, I see! So, it isnt intended for any type of long term treatment. Is it intended to produce “volunteers” because there is a lack of mental health professionals in a widespread crises situation? Maybe so.

[mschrisgo2]

Teach and Treat are two very different things.

I had to consciously choose between the two my entire career. I'm a great teacher; and I would be a lousy treat-er because I tend toward being an empath and get too emotionally involved to be of any use.

[Teacher Terry]

Sounds like a waste of time and money.

[Zoe Girl]

It is for teaching people in fields like my after school programming to respond better to children in a mental health crisis, support by immediate crisis management and then have some awareness of resources to follow up. I have taken the youth version and an organization I worked with required all their teachers in mindfulness to take the course. I have also sent staff to the training and they found it helpful.

As far as my experience, I have made suicide watch calls on multiple elementary age students, social services calls, basic behavior and mental health support. In addition I have had staff with mental health crisis over the year that took some sensitivity and awareness to deal with. Mostly I would want to work with people who work with youth not just based on a one time training but based on my decade of experience, training in mindfulness and challenges I have faced. I looked around Denver and there are some teachers who teach at least monthly. Many of them teach under some type of non-profit organization so the class is free to participants. My one friend charges $75 a class. I have connections in the OST world and experience working with grants. Outside of my major episode with my department I think I have a decent reputation in my field.

Does that make more sense? The earliest training would be in Salt Lake in December, which would be also a visit to my best friend I would take anyway. It is adult however and I would think the youth program is a better fit.

Oh and one option to pay for part of it is to start a go-fund-me type of account.

[JaneV2.0]

Your post does make it sound like people--including children--are falling apart all around us. I wonder why this is.

[Teacher Terry]

It doesn’t sound like it will ever be a significant source of income. You would need to teach a lot of classes to get your initial 2k back. I have donated to go fund me for medical bills but wouldn’t for this type of thing. I would be using my free time to relax and doing some fun stuff. Doing self care will make you better at work. It is not healthy to be working all the time.

[Tybee]

Having gone to the website and read about it, and seeing how they are promoting it, there is no way that I would look to this course as any kind of route to changing my employment. I went to Indeed and looked for jobs using this credential and they are advertising for people to work there, at the national organization.

If you want to do mental health work with people, then I would retrain in something where I would get a degree I could use. Your absolute best route would be nursing school, with the absolute best bang for your buck.

If you want another career path, why not get back into the mediation field, using this time with a more peaceful and supportive day job to get the hours you need in mediation.

[Tybee]

The website makes me quite suspicious actually as to agenda for the organization-- they are promoting themselves with saying that Michelle Obama, Patrick Kennedy, and the first lady of New York are all trained in this. The training I looked at with the role playing made it seem like they were promoting citizens becoming trained to be mental health first responders, which I think is really, really a bad idea, for the reasons that IL was saying.

[iris lilies]

It is for teaching people in fields like my after school programming to respond better to children in a mental health crisis, support by immediate crisis management and then have some awareness of resources to follow up. I have taken the youth version and an organization I worked with required all their teachers in mindfulness to take the course. I have also sent staff to the training and they found it helpful.

As far as my experience, I have made suicide watch calls on multiple elementary age students, social services calls, basic behavior and mental health support. In addition I have had staff with mental health crisis over the year that took some sensitivity and awareness to deal with. Mostly I would want to work with people who work with youth not just based on a one time training but based on my decade of experience, training in mindfulness and challenges I have faced. I looked around Denver and there are some teachers who teach at least monthly. Many of them teach under some type of non-profit organization so the class is free to participants. My one friend charges $75 a class. I have connections in the OST world and experience working with grants. Outside of my major episode with my department I think I have a decent reputation in my field.

Does that make more sense? The earliest training would be in Salt Lake in December, which would be also a visit to my best friend I would take anyway. It is adult however and I would think the youth program is a better fit.

Oh and one option to pay for part of it is to start a go-fund-me type of account.


The ethics of a go-fund-me appeal for personal development is suspect. Yes, people do it.

[Chicken lady]

I realize this is an aside, but I fail to see how it would be unethical to make a go fund me request for ANY purpose, as long as funds were collected for the purpose stated and used accordingly.

Some PURPOSES might be unethical (go fund me so I can pay somebody to hack into the dmv and erase my ticket, for example)

if I started a go fund me for the purpose of going out to dinner once a week (help me support local restaurants!) I see no way in which that would be unethical - unlikely to work, but not unethical.

back to the original question, I don’t know anything about the course, profession, or earning potential, but I think you seem to be in a good place right now, and I would suggest you spend the next two years in your current job focusing your professional energy there and enjoy the improved schedule and lower stress to focus on strengthening yourself emotionally and spiritually, as well as enjoying better physical habits like sleep. If you feel a need to explore additional income/business focuses, your crochet offers hat along with a creative outlet.

you seem to get really excited about “the next thing.” (Says the woman with more unfinished projects than years left in her life and a tendency to teach classes for free just because “I HAVE to have THIS ONE.”)

[iris lilies]

ethics of go fund me for non life threatening: jeppy, care to weigh in? I think it is ethically borderline because the OP has money to take this course.

fortunately, the crowd in crowdsourcing will decide if the ask is worthy.

I had an ethical challenge (ethical with a small e) some weeks ago. There was a fundraising spaghetti dinner advertised with yard signs, held just a few block away from our
Hermann house. So we went. It was at the VFW hall and i assumed it was some kind of VFW fundraiser..

Nope. At the door we were greeted by a teenage girl all tarted up in 5 inch heels and gobs of makeup. We were attending a fundraiser to send her to a beauty contest in California.yeah, not an endeavor I would ordinarily support. But damn, the spaghetti looked good! And it was, the girl’s mom knows how to cook. And we made a connection with the girl’s dad who does lawn work for a living, so we might hire him in the future. All was not lost, and I gave an extra $10 over and above our meals because they did not have good attendance. Their silent auction stuff was not e ticing.I really felt sorry for her family who, I suspect, spent as much money on the set up of this fundraiser as they took in.

In the end, it was great to see how supportive and loving was this family and friends toward this girl, though. They had a lot of energy and ideas if not solid know how in fundraising.

[Tybee]

Here is a link to the organization's legislative activities:

https://www.thenationalcouncil.org/about/mental-health-first-aid/mental-health-first-aid-legislative-activity/

Unfortunately, the link they give here:

President Obama calls for Mental Health First Aid trainingIn his report, Now Is the Time: The President’s Plan to Protect our Children and our Communities by Reducing Gun Violence (http://www.whitehouse.gov/issues/preventing-gun-violence), President Obama calls for Mental Health First Aid training to help teachers and school staff recognize the signs of mental health disorders in young people and find them appropriate care.

is broken. . .

It might have explained more about the organization's purpose and agenda.

[razz]

Most education operations are for-profit centres when i have looked at them objectively. They have to turn my dollars into a really valuable outcome to generate any interest from me.
I agree with CL's thinking about taking your time over the next two years.

[Teacher Terry]

For profit education is usually a rip off. We tried to send our clients to public colleges or technical schools.

[sweetana3]

You now have an opportunity to get your life in order. Try not to jump from one thing to another. I agree with the other posters that you should concentrate on your current job to establish good patterns in both work and home life. Enjoy your extra time to set up systems so you can take care of your finances, practice your hobbies (crochet, meditation,etc.), and enjoy your kids. SLOW DOWN and enjoy your renewed life.

and I do not agree that $2,000 for a nebulous 8 hour class is a good investment or worthwhile use of your time.

[Teacher Terry]

At 50 you will probably work another 10-15 years depending on your health. Work, enjoy kids and grandkids and relax. Being in constant motion is not healthy.

[ApatheticNoMore]

If you want to do mental health work with people, then I would retrain in something where I would get a degree I could use. Your absolute best route would be nursing school, with the absolute best bang for your buck.

it would be a massive amount of largely irrelevant education just to do counseling or social work it seems to me. And even more irrelevant if what one wants to do is some kind of training work.

[Geila]

Here is my gut reaction:
I am already deeply skeptical about the ability of the average therapist to affect meaningful change, and this just seems like another another flavor of therapy, therapy-lite from the profession that already has minimal measures. As an aside, I find it scary to see how little training is really required before Masters and Phd level candidates start in with clients. Ugh.


+1. I'd always assumed that in order for therapists to treat clients, they had to have their own shit together. Apparently not so. There is a woman over on MMM that is a complete mess and she is counseling clients on her own, with what appears to be minimal training. It's pretty darned scary. And also seems unethical to allow a client who is that unstable to treat clients herself. Makes me wonder what kind of oversight therapists operate under.

[iris lilies]

+1. I'd always assumed that in order for therapists to treat clients, they had to have their own shit together. Apparently not so. There is a woman over on MMM that is a complete mess and she is counseling clients on her own, with what appears to be minimal training. It's pretty darned scary. And also seems unethical to allow a client who is that unstable to treat clients herself. Makes me wonder what kind of oversight therapists operate under.

Yes. That there is a reality check for seeking therapy. Or at least it is a cautionary tale to carefully interview therapists and seek out those who have been in practice for a long time and come with strong recommendations.

[herbgeek]

Geila- can you share what MMM board/thread that is? (I'm looking but don't see anything obvious yet)

[Geila]

herbgeek - I don't feel comfortable sharing that info; it feels too much like talking behind someone's back. But I will say that no one else seems bothered by the situation; in fact, most of the comments are positive regarding the seeing of clients. I find the whole thing confusing and scary.

[Teacher Terry]

So when I trained to be a therapist it was a masters degree and 20 hours s week for 2 years was devoted to clients. Then upon graduating I had to do 3000 hours at a low pay under a licensed clinical social worker. There are various tests you have to pass at every level. It is rigorous training. I wish I knew what thread it was. You should share it as it’s the right thing to do.

[Zoe Girl]

I have had very good luck with therapists, some ultimately were not a good fit but they were overall good. My ex-FIL and his wife were good counselors and terrible relatives. I still think that although they have their rotten moments they are probably really good for the clients they have. My ex-FIL did a lot of dual diagnoses work, maybe he just used it all up with clients.

I feel a little like you do Terry, I spent a lot of time, practice and money to get where I am in my career. There is not a lot of understanding of that, and then I am in the lower than low category of out of school time programs instead of classroom work. I am still however trained in teaching, have practice and skills in this, and ideas of how it is done well. So getting an 8 hour certificate is based on a lot of background, not that 8 hours would make me a qualified therapist in any way. However I am listening and trying to chill out my future plans.

[iris lilies]

So when I trained to be a therapist it was a masters degree and 20 hours s week for 2 years was devoted to clients. Then upon graduating I had to do 3000 hours at a low pay under a licensed clinical social worker. There are various tests you have to pass at every level. It is rigorous training. I wish I knew what thread it was. You should share it as it’s the right thing to do.
hunh, the right thing to do? Why?

I will PM you, but not because its the right thing to do.

[Geila]

So when I trained to be a therapist it was a masters degree and 20 hours s week for 2 years was devoted to clients. Then upon graduating I had to do 3000 hours at a low pay under a licensed clinical social worker. There are various tests you have to pass at every level. It is rigorous training. I wish I knew what thread it was. You should share it as it’s the right thing to do.

I don't see why that would be the right thing to do. These are internet strangers. How does sharing the info help anyone?

[JaneV2.0]

I don't see why that would be the right thing to do. These are internet strangers. How does sharing the info help anyone?

I assume they thought it would help someone, or they wouldn't have made it public.
Neither here nor there for me, as I'm not a finance forum follower.

[Teacher Terry]

I was thinking that the college wasn’t aware of her mental illness and should be but it appears that they know and don’t care. Wow how things have changed for the worse since I went to college.

[iris lilies]

I was thinking that the college wasn’t aware of her mental illness and should be but it appears that they know and don’t care. Wow how things have changed for the worse since I went to college.


Yes.

But I do have a question—wasnt there the idea at one time that in order to provide psychological analysis, one shoud first go through it themselves? It seems like that was considered necessary for training. Maybe I am wrong about this, or maybe that was for a specific school of training.

I thought about this recently because a young relative is getting her Ph.d in psychology with the goal to do therapy, and she has just started out in that coursework. She is a textbook golden child with beauty, brains, popularity, and parents who dote on her. So I wondered what would she have to uncover in analysis. Then I learned that her parents were getting a divorce and I though “ok, well, there is that for her therapy agenda, at least there one thing to have angst about.”

[Teacher Terry]

That was for psychiatrists only. I went and read some of the journal. Just a dumb choice all the way around with the money they have saved and the skills between the 2 of them they could both work p.t. and be fine. Or f.t. 5 more years and call it quits. You really have to wonder about the mental health of her therapist who thinks that this is a good idea.

[Tybee]

Is this something on the MMM forum that is about part-time work as a therapist? That sounds interesting. What choice were they making with money, at what age?
(I like to read about retirement to get ideas.)

[iris lilies]

That was for psychiatrists only. I went and read some of the journal. Just a dumb choice all the way around with the money they have saved and the skills between the 2 of them they could both work p.t. and be fine. Or f.t. 5 more years and call it quits. You really have to wonder about the mental health of her therapist who thinks that this is a good idea.
Oh, ok, for psychiatrists the analysis is reccomended. Got it.

[Teacher Terry]

This woman has a PHD and I think worked in business. She went to therapy and discovered she has multiple personalities. Now is starting a PhD program in psychology to become a therapist. Someone with that type of severe MI should not be a therapist. Bad idea because she is 47, husband lost his job, they have 2 million in the bank. She is spending a lot of time and money on what will be a short career. It sounds like they are high spenders and have 3 teens. Places I have lived liked to hire p.t. therapists and not paid any benefits. What I can’t believe is that her therapist thinks this is a good career choice. I didn’t read the whole journal but just parts of it.

[Yppej]

ethics of go fund me for non life threatening: jeppy, care to weigh in?

Many years ago, before there was much of a civilian internet, and certainly no Go Fund Me, people were constantly asking for donations for charities at work. I got tired of it, so one day I put out a cup with a sign, "Donations for the Homeless". The first day a guy asked me to tell him about the charity. I said, "I don't own a home and I want to." He gave me some change and a few other people did too.

[iris lilies]

Many years ago, before there was much of a civilian internet, and certainly no Go Fund Me, people were constantly asking for donations for charities at work. I got tired of it, so one day I put out a cup with a sign, "Donations for the Homeless". The first day a guy asked me to tell him about the charity. I said, "I don't own a home and I want to." He gave me some change and a few other people did too.

Haha!

[Geila]

Yppej - that's funny!

Teacher Terry - yes, her therapist's approval of her seeing clients shocked me as well. There seems to be a lot of romantic transference and lack of boundaries in that therapeutic relationship. Honestly, this situation has really shaken my faith in the counseling profession (is that the right term?) and that scares me. Lately, life seems like one disappointment after another. Trump got elected president, and now my safety net has been pulled out from under me. Not cool! >:(

[Teacher Terry]

Geila, totally unprofessional and really unbelievable. I initially thought someone needs to let the college know and they are fine with it.

[ApatheticNoMore]

anyone who takes career advice from a therapist is cruising for a bruising. although this seems particularly extreme, with the power to hurt not just that person, but a whole bunch of innocent people.

[Tybee]

I can't find the threads in the MMM that everyone is talking about, so I can't form an opinion about the training of that therapist or how it impacts perception of therapy in general.

[JaneV2.0]

Ted Bundy majored in psychology at UW, FWIW. :help:

[Geila]

Therapy can be a life saver for many people (it probably was for me), so I don't want to get on a therapy-bashing mentality. But it's a shock to realize that therapist oversight is so lax and that safety measures are not in place to protect clients/patients from unqualified therapists.

Tybee (and anyone else), if you pm me I will provide the link for the thread. I don't want to post it publicly, although if someone else does it's okay with me. But since I keep talking about it it seems disingenuous to not provide it so that others may join in the conversation.

[Tybee]

Thank you, Geila, found it and have been reading. I think (hope) that this person and her original therapist are outliers. I have been to therapy a fair amount and never had anyone quite as bizarre as her original therapist, and I've had a couple of not great therapists. I would not in any way take this MMM thread as typical of therapists, the therapeutic process, or what kind of help therapy can provide. It really saddens me that this person is out there promoting herself as a therapist, as the whole thread seems chock full of boundary and ethics violations.

And of course, that is just my opinion, and I wish her the best, I just would not find her suited to being a therapist, and I think her therapist is dangerous. Again, just my opinion.

[Geila]

Tybee - I'm sorry, I should have offered earlier. I feel bad that you had to search for it, there's so many threads over there.

I'm glad that you guys are as surprised by this as I am. Everyone on the thread is cheering her on and celebrating when she gets to see clients by herself.

[Teacher Terry]

Geila, no guilt I told her how to find the thread. I would have reported her to the college if I could have found her in real life and if they didn’t already know.