View Full Version : The space you really need?
DW and I wanted to take a little road trip before we both buckle down to fall activities and regular time commitments. DW found this marvelous bed-and-breakfast in northwestern Minnesota. There's a mansion, a cottage, and four converted/renovated train cars. This one was ours:
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It's an 80-foot railroad car with an observation deck on the back and (in the part you can't see here) a two-person whirlpool, a WC, a utility nook (water heater, cleaning supplies), and the "kitchenette" (small fridge, microwave oven, coffeemaker, and space for some dishes and flatware).
OK, not really practical for daily life (for us, anyway): there was a shower handheld in the whirlpool which we used gingerly because of all the wood surrounding the tub and it would be nice to cook beyond heating food in a microwave oven. But there was a surprising amount of storage space, a dining area, a seating area/living room, and a couple of comfy chairs in front of the fireplace. And the deck out back. Not big enough for lots of friends to visit, but there are outside areas available for a few months of the year and if it were truly ours, a three-season porch would not be out of the question if it were sited right.
The cottage, though, was the revelation.
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I would guess maybe 600 square feet total and wide enough to allow wheelchair/walker access. Not designed for tons of privacy but DW and I agreed there was enough space to get out of each other's hair if that were necessary. No space for guests, so that solves that issue. ;) The kitchen is not my ideal (and the stove would not meet code in our location, sitting next to the wall like that). But talk about living cabin life at home! Add a basement for storage/storm shelter (and a garage) and DW and I believed we could be quite happy with so much less.
Seeing both of these spaces started a discussion between us about how much space we needed and how even our current 1700-square-foot house was becoming too much, even with the grandkids over more and more often. We also discussed moving closer to our daughter/SiL and the grandkids. But a place like this won't be easy to find in their sprawling suburb (or adjacent to it) and the cost of building such a small place (railroad motif aside) would rival the cost of a bigger place. However, it did start the conversation. That's a good thing.
iris lilies
8-26-18, 9:59pm
The cottage is cute, but the train car is to die for.
I always figured I wanted no more than 1200 sq ft with basement in another house. 24532454 ur Hermann house has around 1400 sw ft. We will be building on. I may be an idiot for this,I dont know.
I will attach my crude drawing of current
Hermann floor plan for anyone interested. Perhaps a kind person will turn it right side up.
catherine
8-26-18, 10:17pm
As you may know, our VT cabin/cottage is just over 700 square feet and I can't be happier with how comfortable DH and I are in it. And I'm surprised about that--but I have to say that we have managed to add 24 square feet via my DH's outbuilding workshed/man cave where he smokes, reads the news on his iPhone and listens to the 1960 transistor radio that came with the property.
We had some visitors this weekend and they commented on how, while our home is small, we have everything we need, and I completely agree. It's such an efficient way to live!
However, we have yet to test the comfort of our closeness in the winter. I'll keep you posted on that. In MN you'll probably spend 6 months at least in close quarters.
I love that railroad car! It's so "vintage luxe"!
That rail car is really neat to see. Glad you shared the pics.
Teacher Terry
8-27-18, 12:18am
Both the train car and cottage were very cool. We have lived in 870 sq ft and 1100 condos that were not big enough. No garage so we rented a storage space. Now we live in 1400 sq ft with 1 car garage and shed. We each need our own office.
Williamsmith
8-27-18, 2:17am
In the right location, something like the cottage could be perfectly fine with me. As Catherine said though, Winter could also be a revelation of sorts. Cabin fever is a real possibility and sneaks up on you. I tend to talk to myself more often in February. Guests during the winter are especially welcome. There’s enough space in 600 square feet if properly laid out.
HappyHiker
8-27-18, 8:43am
Cute places, both rail car and cottage. What I noticed immediately about the cottage was the lack of cabinet space in the kitchen. That wouldn't work for me. I like to cook and storage is important to me for both cookware and pantry.
I once told my husband that all we really need is a good-sized kitchen, a nice bathroom, a 4-season sun room and a screened porch. I could happily settle for Murphy beds...love nooks and crannies and built in seating such as window seats...
To me, modern houses have so much wasted space.
Our current house has a living room we rarely use as we have a cozy family room. We also have a formal dining room which we ignore as we have a nook in the family room that seats four and overlooks the backyard and trees...
We spend a lot of time on the screened porch...
Our mountain cabin is 1250 SF and an oversized 1 car garage. It's great! That said, the longest we've been there is 10 days...no issues.
Our city home is 1850 with a 2 car garage and hubby has a woodshop the size of a single car bay. This home is way plenty big. We have a bistro table in the family room by the big windows overlooking our patio and garden/trees...we eat our meals here. The dining room is used only when we have guests. The rest of our space is used regularly-nothing is tight. Even after 27 years we have empty closet/cupboard space mostly because I don't do clutter and don't hang on to never-used stuff (except those clothes I know I'll lose weight to wear.....right?)
I'm a quilter and that takes space and since I could design my own with a remodel we did in 2003, I did. My sewing table is 4x8f, my pressing station is a 24*60" surface we made for me. My quilting machine footprint is 11*5f and I have an upright grand piano. These 2 big items are in the living room-otherwise we wouldn't use that space either. And then we moved our office desk from our family room to the living room as it could fit. Our kitchen is very small by today's standards but it's packed with cupboards and a floor/ceiling pantry with bifold doors on it so it's a good size.
How much space is about lifestyle and what you do and how you do it. We're on a small city lot but I can grow a ton of food...people are amazed at what I produce.
My neighbor who is planning a 2nd child says they'll outgrow their 2600sf with that birth. Um....OK. I was raised in 1400sf with 5 siblings/2 parents. It worked.
To each their own.
Downsizing will be a continuing conversation for DW and me.
There would have to be real conversations about, say, guests: While we have a somewhat steady stream of people visiting throughout the year, it's seldom more than half-a-dozen for an afternoon/evening and it's never more than two or three overnight. That railroad car and the cottage could accommodate the afternoon/evening visitors. But overnight guests would require a level of "closeness" with which I think neither us nor our guests would be comfortable. So, hotel nearby? In our near-the-kids scenario, have guests stay overnight in the kids' McMansion? Enough space for one guest room? And what of the extra chairs and the "fancy" set of dishes and serving pieces we have for when guests come over?
Just as it does not make sense to buy a pickup truck if you have to carry big items only once a month or so, does it make sense to buy/maintain a much larger home which remains empty most of the time? A topic of discussion. But it was nice for this experience to jog us into thinking about it more seriously.
Agree it's good to experience living in different size spaces. My little rental is about 700 sq. feet so I was glad to see the cottage photos because I'm always thinking of ways to reconfigure that rental space when it's time to remodel.
We seem to be doing the opposite of downsizing. SO just built a workshop/shed about 120 sq. feet for storage and woodworking projects. I wish more suburban houses would have these types of outbuildings. Our total material cost was <$3,000 including a concrete slab. I know he'll get a lot of use out of it and of course it increases the overall property value.
So my vote is to be realistic about the amount of entertaining and overnight visitors, and concentrate on how you live your daily life. Also if you are living with others it's great to have some amount of private getaway space.
iris lilies
8-27-18, 10:19am
I think the trend, here anyways, is smaller bathrooms than in the past but lots of them.
I sttended a picnic for new residents in our neighborhood and one of the young folks was lamenting the huge jacuzzi tub in her house. I told her “yep, that's what we did to these houses in the 80’s, made a bedroom into a big ass bathroom with a giant ass tub.”
I am happy to see a return to small bathrooms with showrs and no tub.
Love the rail car. There are few videos on youtube of people living in rail cars.
The little cottage is cute as well. One BNB we stayed in was a converted old small 2 car garage. Room for bedroom, bathroom, sitting area with kitchenette (I love those small ovens like in the one you stayed in) and a deck. Perfect.
I love staying in the little cabin my dad built. It's really big enough to live in but I'd build a 3/4 wall around the bed area if living in it.2455
Teacher Terry
8-27-18, 11:22am
My office is also my guest room which works well. DH is too messy to have his be a guest room. In this house we use all our rooms. Our kitchen is strictly a galley work kitchen so eat in the dining room all the time which overlooks the backyard. We also have 2 outside patios that we use a lot. If we have more than 2 guests people can sleep in our RV. When all my high school friends came for a week 4 slept here and the other couple got a hotel room. There is something really fun about sitting around at night talking and no decisions need to be made about what time to leave. Same thing in the morning people got up when they wanted and helped themselves. Everyone participated in meal set up and clean up too. We sat around in our pjs and talked over coffee in the morning and it was so fun. We did add a second bathroom when we bought this old house which really helped.
Terry, that sounds like my dream, to be able to entertain like that and a second bathroom! Sounds so fun.
iris lilies
8-27-18, 12:48pm
In thinking about this, I believe my preference is for large public spaces and quite small private spaces. In other words bathrooms and bedrooms do not need to be large. I like walk-in closets to contain mess and would be happy with no bedroom furniture other than a bed and, I suppose a nightstand. Bathrooms need to have only a shower, one sink , and toilet, although I keep hearing that houses need to have a bathtub to bathe small children and dogs.
happystuff
8-27-18, 6:49pm
All I know is that right now I am in too much house. Have "things" going on for at least the next 3-4 years, but my hope is to dramatically downsize by then. Working on the decluttering and know it will probably take that long. lol.
Downsizing will be a continuing conversation for DW and me.
There would have to be real conversations about, say, guests: While we have a somewhat steady stream of people visiting throughout the year, it's seldom more than half-a-dozen for an afternoon/evening and it's never more than two or three overnight. That railroad car and the cottage could accommodate the afternoon/evening visitors. But overnight guests would require a level of "closeness" with which I think neither us nor our guests would be comfortable. So, hotel nearby? In our near-the-kids scenario, have guests stay overnight in the kids' McMansion? Enough space for one guest room? And what of the extra chairs and the "fancy" set of dishes and serving pieces we have for when guests come over?
Just as it does not make sense to buy a pickup truck if you have to carry big items only once a month or so, does it make sense to buy/maintain a much larger home which remains empty most of the time? A topic of discussion. But it was nice for this experience to jog us into thinking about it more seriously.
For sure points of discussion. My quilting studio has a murphy bed for guests-we can only sleep 2. My 4x8 sewing table is a melamine slab atop 2 short bookcases and it can be moved around and my huge pressing station can be dismantled in a minute. If others want to stay they can create a bed out of a stack of quilts or bring a sleeping bag. (I have a nephew who has done both). I like being able to host overnight guests but I don't have a room dedicated. Murphy beds are a great option-hubby built ours. I have card tables/chairs for extras and yes, I do have the extra dishes.
In thinking about this, I believe my preference is for large public spaces and quite small private spaces. In other words bathrooms and bedrooms do not need to be large. I like walk-in closets to contain mess and would be happy with no bedroom furniture other than a bed and, I suppose a nightstand. Bathrooms need to have only a shower, one sink , and toilet, although I keep hearing that houses need to have a bathtub to bathe small children and dogs.
I agree totally! I don't have kids or dogs and don't need a bathtub. My mother much preferred baths and I just thought they were gross. Our bathroom is 5x10 feet with a 3x5 shower and no tub. It is the most perfect bathroom I have ever been in. We have a smaller downstairs bath that actually does have a tub but no one has ever bathed in it. It is great for holding a kitty litter box but a smaller shower stall would probably work just as well.
Our second bedroom, my den and weeknight sleeping room is 9x11 feet with a nice sized closet. I have no need for anything bigger.
Teacher Terry
8-27-18, 11:05pm
Kids love baths with toys and you can bathe 2 or 3 at once. Occasionally we like to soak in a tub. Showers often scare very small children.
When I am frozen or too hot, a relaxing soak in the tub is the most wonderful experience to warm up or cool down adjusting the water temperature to suit. Cannot imagine having no tub in a house although I do love my ensuite shower.
Williamsmith
8-28-18, 9:10am
I consider a tub to be a necessary accessory for a happy existence. The experience of immersing yourself in hot water is a psychological return to your mothers womb. My apologies for the images that my stir up.
catherine
8-28-18, 10:09am
I agree with regard to a tub. I would never completely get rid of tubs in a house. To me, the "showers-only" movement is emblematic of the rush rush rush lifestyle we have. How fast can we wash? Let's just race through running water in the morning and call it a day.
I also object to people who are concerned about "sitting in your own dirt." I've heard that a lot. I had a friend in college who said that the only way she would take a bath is if she took a shower first, then a bath, then another shower. That's why I like my "shath". My clawfoot tub has a shower head on a hose, and so I can run the tub, take a shallow bath, then on the way out of the tub, spritz myself off. There is no way any of my guests would feel comfortable to this method, but I've adapted to it and it's not that bad.
ToomuchStuff
8-28-18, 10:44am
I would not get rid of tubs entirely, in fact, my ideal goes a different direction. I currently have a claw foot tub and shower, with the shower being handheld on a hose, as they are not designed for all heights (tall or short people have those issues with showers as well).
My ideal involves a floor drain in the middle of the bathroom, where one could stand and use or hose themselves off before getting into a Japanese style soaking tub, which I expect would help with my back/muscles.
Teacher Terry
8-28-18, 2:51pm
We put a big jacuzzi soaking tub in our bathroom and love it along with a shower.
The house I grew up in had only a bath. Count me as one of the people who thinks it's gross. I don't consider my shower to be a rush rush rush on to the day type of activity. I love the process. I start with shampooing my hair, then do my pits, and work my way down to my feet, all the yuck getting closer to the drain. At the end I feel clean. Getting out of a bath (as a kid. I couldn't tell you the last time I took one) I looked with dispair at the dirty water draining away, thinking how much of that dirt was still on my body. I'm jp and, yes, I'm a germaphobe.
If we ever bought a house with a tub we'd likely keep it (assuming the bathroom wasn't a disaster area) because I can't see wasting money changing out a functional room. (I am, after all, a thrifty minimalist...),
I really like both of these but must confess every time I look at limited space I wonder "where do they store the Christmas Decor?"
We (3people) live in 1400 sq ft and the Christmas stuff is in the attic. Probably time to go thru and get rid of some of this stuff?
I really like both of these but must confess every time I look at limited space I wonder "where do they store the Christmas Decor?"
We (3people) live in 1400 sq ft and the Christmas stuff is in the attic. Probably time to go thru and get rid of some of this stuff?
I've thought about that. If we ever make it to Christmas up here in Vermont, I would a) minimize / use biodegradable decor. In a small home, natural materials like real trees, rope garland and pine cones can go a long way. b) keep any other stuff--hopefully not much, stuff like lights and tree ornaments--in my shed in the back.
Teacher Terry
8-29-18, 10:53am
I got rid of most of my Xmas decorations and only have 1 small box. My tree is about a foot tall.
SteveinMN
8-29-18, 10:59am
I really like both of these but must confess every time I look at limited space I wonder "where do they store the Christmas Decor?"
Heh. As we poked around our car and a couple others, we found a small closet door in each car that contained an artificial Christmas tree and some additional dust collectors stuffed into the space. Apparently this place does up Christmas. Obviously not space for a 5- or 6-foot tree and tons of decorations but it was stored in the car.
iris lilies
8-29-18, 11:01am
While I have an attic full of Xmas stuff including two fake trees (one 10+ ft tall for our tall ceilings) in recent years I have, when I put up a tree which isnt annually, Purchased a small live tree. I decorate it with one set of lights and whatever throwaway decor catches my fancy.
I keep the Christmas stuff in the attic because I kinda sorta hope we can be on one Holiday House tour before I die.
Teacher Terry
8-29-18, 11:06am
IL, how do you get on the holiday house tour? I love to go to those.
catherine
8-29-18, 11:09am
I got rid of most of my Xmas decorations and only have 1 small box. My tree is about a foot tall.
Hmm, couldn't do a foot tall tree. Would prefer a 4 foot live tree. In our VT. house I couldn't have more than 4 feet. In NJ, we typically do 6 ft. I love Christmas, and while I'll never be on one of IL's Christmas house tours, my kids usually come down and I try to make it magical. I assure you, that will change if we ever live up here FT. I'll give all the stuff to my kids and what they don't want, I'll give away to Goodwill.
Teacher Terry
8-29-18, 11:12am
Through the years we first had 6 ft than 4 ft and about 4 years ago went to the small one that I put on a end table. It stays decorated. I used to decorate every room in the house including the bathroom.
SteveinMN
8-29-18, 12:26pm
We love looking at Christmas décor, but neither one of us likes dusting around it or packing it up. So it has been leaving the house, steadily, over the past several years. We have a two-foot Christmas tree that stands on a hidden table near the window and looks much bigger. Win-win.
Turning Irislilies drawings upright.
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We are like Steve. Used to have about 5-6 full sized trees because our house was big. Gradually got rid of everything except special ornaments or ones I made. Did not like the mess or the dust anymore. No kids and holiday is so commercial.
iris lilies
8-29-18, 2:10pm
IL, how do you get on the holiday house tour? I love to go to those.
You simply volunteer.
Our house was such shambles for so long that they stopped even thinking about asking us. Our downstairs has been “finished “ now for a few years, but I would like to put in wood plank floors before we go on a tour. Our kitchen is newly renovated and it looks nice.
The favorite house on tour last year was one that was smaller than mine, with super clean decor and bold, simple Christmas decorations.
It is likely my own decor would be fussier, but I will try to remember the lesson of Bold, Simple.
iris lilies
8-29-18, 2:34pm
Turning Irislilies drawings upright.
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but these are still upside down! I appreciate your effort, though.
but these are still upside down! I appreciate your effort, though.
Oh Hell, let me give it a try.
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iris lilies
8-29-18, 2:46pm
Oh Hell, let me give it a try.
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thank you!
No Christmas or other seasonal decorations here anymore. When my son lost interest in decorating it I didn't bother. I always hated trying to get the tree upright evenly in the stand.
My Christmas decorations peaked about 5 big plastic bins. I'm now down to two and one of those is mostly filled with the kids' stuff. I hope to eventually get down to one. We'll see. LOL.
I think I am at two boxes of Christmas decorations now, and I can probably start passing them along to the kids at this point, but I have room for two boxes, so it's no big deal. When I decide to go to one box, I will know. I am finding that this is an organic process and I am ready to let go of some things while acquiring others that suit me better, kind of on a ratio of one thing in, one out. When we are settled in a new place, then I suspect I will get rid of more because it won't be needed.
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