Online dating or hookups, beware

[iris lilies]

In a recent thread UL mentioned online dating.


I discovered something that was weird for you online daters. I wish I did not know it. Some of these hook up places don’t protect privacy.


Here’s how I discovered it: years ago my neighborhood Association put up a list of community gardeners on their website. The list included our name, street address, phone number, our email address, and our birthdate. Yeah, that was stupid and I was annoyed and it took a while to get that ID theft worthy information down from the web after I bitched and moaned. But during the time it was up, I poked around Google using my fellow community gardeners’ info. One thing I tested was how much can I find out from someone’s email address.

Unfortunately I learned which one of my neighbors is a “bottom” in the hook up game. Also, he is “cut.” I wish I didnt know this! My neighbor used his regular email address for a hookup on a local website that was stupidly open about Google indexing.

My fault for snooping, I guess, although my own email address is out there available for searches and that is ok with me.

But, beware of the lesson in this cautionary tale. There are several levels of wrongness in this: my neighbor who didnt use a throwaway email address, the hookup site, and me.

[Ultralight]

In a recent thread UL mentioned online dating.


I discovered something that was weird for you online daters. I wish I did not know it. Some of these hook up places don’t protect privacy.


Here’s how I discovered it: years ago my neighborhood Association put up a list of community gardeners on their website. The list included our name, street address, phone number, our email address, and our birthdate. Yeah, that was stupid and I was annoyed and it took a while to get that ID theft worthy information down from the web after I bitched and moaned. But during the time it was up, I poked around Google using my fellow community gardeners’ info. One thing I tested was how much can I find out from someone’s email address.

Unfortunately I learned which one of my neighbors is a “bottom” in the hook up game. Also, he is “cut.” I wish I didnt know this! My neighbor used his regular email address for a hookup on a local website that was stupidly open about Google indexing.

My fault for snooping, I guess, although my own email address is out there available for searches and that is ok with me.

But, beware of the lesson in this cautionary tale. There are several levels of wrongness in this: my neighbor who didnt use a throwaway email address, the hookup site, and me.

What site was he on? "Man Hunt?" lol

[bae]

I'm a big fan of VPNs, anonymyzing proxy servers, throw-away email addresses, anonymous VOIP services, and encrypted mail.

Keeps out at least some of the riff raff.

[SteveinMN]

I'm a big fan of VPNs, anonymyzing proxy servers, throw-away email addresses, anonymous VOIP services, and encrypted mail.

Keeps out at least some of the riff raff.
Amen to that! I'm continually amazed at the number of people I know who do everything on their work email address. Or even their work-supplied computer/phone. I'm even annoyed when organizations sending out email to their members don't blind-copy so you get a list of 45 eminently-usable email addresses. Digital security is severely undervalued by most people.

[Ultralight]

Something I find interesting about online dating are the 35-45 year old women who "definitely" want kids. So, on match.com you can select:
-No
-No, but it is okay if my partner has kids
-Probably not
-Not sure
-Someday
-Definitely

There are even plenty of women in the 45-50 range that "definitely" want kids. And there are tons of women in the 35-45 range who "someday" want kids.

Here is my thought. Any guy worth having kids with is probably going to take his time, vet the woman he is dating, and also want to take some time to just enjoy life as a couple. Let me break this down.

Let's say a great guy, age 36. 6'2", 180 lbs. advanced degree, good job, loves his mom, owns a nice car and house, etc. who has no kids meets a 35 year old woman who "definitely" wants kids.

The guy, if he is a good dude, is going to want to date for a least a year to make sure she is a good match. So then she is 36. Then maybe they live together for a year so he can make sure they can live together harmoniously. Then she is 37. Then he proposes and the engagement is a very reasonable year. She is then 38. Then he wants to just enjoy life as a couple -- go on weekend getaways, go to amusement parks, take vacations or go on a couple cruises, maybe finish the basement, repaint the bedrooms, get some money saved, etc. This takes a year or two. So by then that women who "definitely" wanted kids at age 35 is 40 years old. She is running out of eggs and some of the ones left are "low qual."

Or that 35 year old woman who "definitely" wants kids can speed the process up by several means.
-She could get an formal or informal donor, and have a kid on her own first, then try to find a quality husband. But most good dudes are very apprehensive about dating single moms.
-She could go partway through the long process described above, trick the guy into impregnating her, and hope he forgives her or that he believes her 99.8% effective IUD actually did fail.
-She could tell herself that she will go through the long process above and then simply adopt a baby when she and her partner are in their 40s. (Big reveal: Ain't gonna happen!)
-She could forget about having a husband and just get a formal or informal donor, have the kid, and focus on that.
-She could do the math and think: "Do I want to wait until it is probably too late to get a decent man because I am so fixated on having a family or do I want to make a compromise and be with a man who does not want kids? This way I at least get part of what I want -- the husband."

Thoughts?

[SteveinMN]

Of course, I'm missing the context of the rest of the questionnaire, but maybe match.com is just trying to avoid a lawsuit by listing those option for every age category (including over-60) regardless of its likelihood IRL.

[iris lilies]

I just recently ran into an old friend of ours on Facebook. He met his wife in the same singles group where DH and I met. It was a really nice group of 25-35 people. Hey Steve, just fyi this was the Ames Singles group, dont know if they were still operating when you were in Ames. Oddly, the group was largely devoid of
university people, both students and faculty. It was dominantely blue/pink collar people. Several marriages came out of it and the three long terms ones are without children.

Anyway, quite a number of us were over 30 and didnt want children.

The friends I recently ran into celebrated their 25th wedding anniversary, and it is cool that they are happy and together. No kids,just dogs.

I dont have a point here unless it is: not all people in their 30’s want kids and finding those people didnt seem all that hard to me in a University town.

[Williamsmith]

Something I find interesting about online dating are the 35-45 year old women who "definitely" want kids. So, on match.com you can select:
-No
-No, but it is okay if my partner has kids
-Probably not
-Not sure
-Someday
-Definitely

There are even plenty of women in the 45-50 range that "definitely" want kids. And there are tons of women in the 35-45 range who "someday" want kids.

Here is my thought. Any guy worth having kids with is probably going to take his time, vet the woman he is dating, and also want to take some time to just enjoy life as a couple. Let me break this down.

Let's say a great guy, age 36. 6'2", 180 lbs. advanced degree, good job, loves his mom, owns a nice car and house, etc. who has no kids meets a 35 year old woman who "definitely" wants kids.

The guy, if he is a good dude, is going to want to date for a least a year to make sure she is a good match. So then she is 36. Then maybe they live together for a year so he can make sure they can live together harmoniously. Then she is 37. Then he proposes and the engagement is a very reasonable year. She is then 38. Then he wants to just enjoy life as a couple -- go on weekend getaways, go to amusement parks, take vacations or go on a couple cruises, maybe finish the basement, repaint the bedrooms, get some money saved, etc. This takes a year or two. So by then that women who "definitely" wanted kids at age 35 is 40 years old. She is running out of eggs and some of the ones left are "low qual."

Or that 35 year old woman who "definitely" wants kids can speed the process up by several means.
-She could get an formal or informal donor, and have a kid on her own first, then try to find a quality husband. But most good dudes are very apprehensive about dating single moms.
-She could go partway through the long process described above, trick the guy into impregnating her, and hope he forgives her or that he believes her 99.8% effective IUD actually did fail.
-She could tell herself that she will go through the long process above and then simply adopt a baby when she and her partner are in their 40s. (Big reveal: Ain't gonna happen!)
-She could forget about having a husband and just get a formal or informal donor, have the kid, and focus on that.
-She could do the math and think: "Do I want to wait until it is probably too late to get a decent man because I am so fixated on having a family or do I want to make a compromise and be with a man who does not want kids? This way I at least get part of what I want -- the husband."

Thoughts?

Your exhaustive analysis on the thought processes of women is truly impressive. Except for you are a man ....as they say, you are from Mars.....the woman is from Venus. The sooner you forget trying to figure them out, the better off you will be. I suspect that if you ever summoned the courage to go have your nuts cut, you would find a lovely woman to settle down with. Just she and you and a dog named Boo.

[ApatheticNoMore]

It doesn't have to take that long, that is ridiculous. I mean I don't advocate the other extreme of trying to have kids one month after meeting someone, but it doesn't have to take 5 years if a couple is a good match and both want kids, that's silly. And what is one so sure will be the case after 5 years that wouldn't be after 2? That one would never divorce etc..? Yea I don't think one can get there from there.

Now I had a man decide not to date me when I was just turning 40 and didn't want kids, because they figured they wouldn't persuade me in time and they wanted kids ... I think that's fairly sensible though. I often wonder if it would have been the better life, since my life is really hard. But that is ever so much water under the bridge.

A 5 year time line for a couple who wants kids though? Nah.


-She could do the math and think: "Do I want to wait until it is probably too late to get a decent man because I am so fixated on having a family or do I want to make a compromise and be with a man who does not want kids? This way I at least get part of what I want -- the husband."

well considering it takes 5 years to see if a relationship will work according to you, and she might be near 40 by then and determine it won't work this seems inevitable at that point anyway ... of course maybe she got to have hot sex before then or companionship or ... although marriage is not the only way to get those.

[Teacher Terry]

I had a good friend meet a great guy while in law school. They did a long distance relationship for 3 years, she graduated, they got married and immediately started trying for a baby. She has one at 39 and one at 40. Still happy 14 years later.

[SteveinMN]

Hey Steve, just fyi this was the Ames Singles group, dont know if they were still operating when you were in Ames. Oddly, the group was largely devoid of university people, both students and faculty.
I had never heard of that group, IL, though I will admit I was not exactly "in the market" through my time at ISU so I may have heard the name and never had it register in my brain.

UL, FWIW my ex and I were married 14 years (well, by the book; 12 or so actively married) after a long-distance courtship. Because of the long-distance courtship (and because her bio clock was not yet ticking loudly) we agreed to wait five years before we had kids. By the time the five years rolled around, we alternated between her not wanting them (career) and me not wanting them (with her). DW has a 30-something niece who married in May of last year; the bambina is expected any day now.

[Selah]

Regarding the OP, when I was dating I was on all sorts of dating sites, but in all of them, I limited potential suitors to those living in Las Vegas--I lived in a small town about sixty miles away at the time, had a business, and didn't want to date anyone locally to avoid gossip. Anyway, somehow my profile got "migrated" to a local dating site without my knowledge. One day, a male client of mine called up and said, "Oh ho! I was online and saw your 'advertisement' for a boyfriend! It was so cute!" ARGHH!

In a twist of fate, I immediately logged onto my various dating app accounts to delete them all. There, I saw a message from a man on whom I'd had a fan-girl crush after seeing his picture on a billboard on my way into work. (And no, it wasn't an FBI Most-Wanted picture!) We had our first date the next day, and in less than a month it'll be our tenth wedding anniversary!

[catherine]

Let's say a great guy, age 36. 6'2", 180 lbs. advanced degree, good job, loves his mom, owns a nice car and house, etc. who has no kids meets a 35 year old woman who "definitely" wants kids.

The guy, if he is a good dude, is going to want to date for a least a year to make sure she is a good match. So then she is 36. Then maybe they live together for a year so he can make sure they can live together harmoniously. Then she is 37. Then he proposes and the engagement is a very reasonable year. She is then 38. Then he wants to just enjoy life as a couple -- go on weekend getaways, go to amusement parks, take vacations or go on a couple cruises, maybe finish the basement, repaint the bedrooms, get some money saved, etc. This takes a year or two. So by then that women who "definitely" wanted kids at age 35 is 40 years old. She is running out of eggs and some of the ones left are "low qual."


Thoughts?

Well, my DS40 is a good dude. 5-1/2 years ago he broke up with one girlfriend and a woman who had been tracking the downfall of his relationship jumped out from the wings immediately. Month 1 they had their first date. Month 2 they were serious. Month 3 they were pregnant. Month 4 they got up the nerve to tell their parents. Month 5 they were married. They never did ANY of that interim stuff you mentioned. They recently celebrated their 5th wedding anniversary and they are very happy.

Thank God life doesn't come with a blueprint. We're the architects of our lives and we don't have to follow anyone else's assumptions.

BTW, you know, years ago no one did a "test run" by cohabitating. That seems to be a fairly recent step in courtship and marriage. There is research that people who live together and then marry actually have a higher divorce rate than those that don't.

So maybe scratch that step off your list, or at least de-prioritize it.

[bae]

That is a very inspiring story, Selah!

I'm in my mid-50s, have *never* dated before, live in a small rural community, and am now faced with Discovering How Dating Works In The Modern Age.

Not a clue on my end, but you've given me a it of positive outlook :-)

[Teacher Terry]

Selah, awesome story! C: you are right about the research. However, if I had lived with either of my first 2 husbands I would not have married them. I lived with #3 for 5 1/2 years before marrying him. I was making sure this time:~)

[herbgeek]

Thank God life doesn't come with a blueprint

Yeah I didn't follow the rules as outlined by UL above either. I'd met my husband at a work event. Several months later, he asked me out. After 3 weeks of dating, we decided to get married. We've been married 33 years.

[Tammy]

Bae - I'm curious - if you never dated before - then how did you end up married? Did you do the almost arranged marriage courting thing?

[Alan]

I met my wife in February, 1976 in Anchorage Alaska. I was working the midnight shift as an Air Force Law Enforcement Desk Sergeant when I got a call from a lady in Cincinnati looking for her daughter. It seems the daughter had last checked in from Seattle before boarding her final flight to Anchorage and was now several hours past the expected check-in time. I reassured the woman and told her I'd find her daughter and have her call back right away.

A short time later several new arrivals walked into my area to check in to their new squadron. I addressed the group and asked if there was an Airman Suter in the group. One of the newbies, a hot little blonde, perked up and said "Yes, I'm Airman Suter". I then replied "Call your mother, she's worried about you". It was at that moment that I realized just how embarrassing this was for her, to be singled out of a group at her very first duty assignment and told to call her mother. I felt so bad afterwards that I volunteered to show her around the area when she had some free time. This led to an official date within a few weeks and we were married the following November. Our daughter came along 22 months later and our 42nd anniversary is coming up on 11/12.

I've always believed that if there were one small event in life that improves you forever more, mine was working the desk on that long ago February night.

[jp1]

BTW, you know, years ago no one did a "test run" by cohabitating. That seems to be a fairly recent step in courtship and marriage. There is research that people who live together and then marry actually have a higher divorce rate than those that don't.



I had not heard about this. I guess SO and I had better just remain SO's... Of course, we had been together 12 years, and living together over a decade, before the Obergefell supreme court decision made it legal for us to marry, so perhaps that rule doesn't quite fit our situation.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I think my bf would have married me by now if I had wanted, only he knows I've never been much of a believer in marriage. Living together though, I've considered for sheer economic reasons!, but actually off the table again for now (for work reasons).

[SteveinMN]

I've always believed that if there were one small event in life that improves you forever more, mine was working the desk on that long ago February night.
I like that. Makes me think about what event that might have been for me. Might even have been more than one...

*still thinking...*

[Ultralight]

bae:

How's things going?

[pinkytoe]

At 37, my niece did the match.com thing with exacting requirements - advanced degree, professional career and/or successful entrepreneur, fit and outdoorsy, and wanting to start a family. I don't know how long it took but she found exactly what she was looking for, married the guy and became pregnant one year later. And then one more three years later. Still together seven years later. His income is very high and with that she has been able to stay home with the kids. I am guessing that people that run in those crowds wouldn't settle for anything less but I don't live in that bubble.

[Ultralight]

At 37, my niece did the match.com thing with exacting requirements - advanced degree, professional career and/or successful entrepreneur, fit and outdoorsy, and wanting to start a family. I don't know how long it took but she found exactly what she was looking for, married the guy and became pregnant one year later. And then one more three years later. Still together seven years later. His income is very high and with that she has been able to stay home with the kids. I am guessing that people that run in those crowds wouldn't settle for anything less but I don't live in that bubble.

Good on her! Glad to hear of a success story. :)

[Ultralight]

As many of you know, I tend to date black women because they seem to be the most interested in me and they tend to be more forward about it.

But I had a heart-to-heart recently with one of my closest friends; she is certainly my closest confidant. She is a black woman (married for years now, and she and I were never romantic as she had always wanted a bunch of babies).

She told me to branch out and really give other demographics of women a chance. She said: "I am glad you like the 'sistahs' but you have a lot of unique boxes you want checked. You should open up to dating women of other ethnicities or races. Think about it. Black women are one of the most religious demographics in America; and you are a Christopher Hitches-style anti-theist. You also don't want kids. Family and motherhood are huge in the black community. It is really part of our culture. So branch out!"

When a close friend comes to me in sincerity and with good points. I listen. I take it to heart.

So I thought: "Which demographic have I not really given a chance to?"

The answer: Asian women. I have never gone on more than a couple dates with an Asian woman. I usually swipe past them.

Then I looked up some demographic research. Asian women are least likely to be religious. They are also least likely to have children out of wedlock.

Then I joined a dating site specifically for Asian women. Wow! Different experience than any other dating site I have been on!

[iris lilies]

So, your friend told you the exact things we hsve been telling you about the female black population and religiousness and progeny, and you listen. Bravo!

You are going to have to sell yourself on that site as the white guy who doesnt have the usual Asian girl fetish.

[bae]

You are going to have to sell yourself on that site as the white guy who doesnt have the usual Asian girl fetish.

Yeah. Good luck with that.

https://thetempest.co/2015/06/17/culture-taste/culture/your-asian-love-can-rot/

[Ultralight]

So, your friend told you the exact things we hsve been telling you about the female black population and religiousness and progeny, and you listen. Bravo!

I was remiss in listening to others, perhaps including you. But you know, sometimes someone brings up a good point and for whatever reason, it does not sink in at first. Then things happen over time, you live, you learn. I am not perfect in my rationality. I merely strive for it with the best of intentions.


You are going to have to sell yourself on that site as the white guy who doesnt have the usual Asian girl fetish.

Uh, but I don't. Why would I have to sell that?

Look, I know some guys have "yellow fever." But some Asian women have... I dunno... "white heat." haha

Besides, if anything I have a secular fetish. haha

[Ultralight]

Yeah. Good luck with that.

https://thetempest.co/2015/06/17/culture-taste/culture/your-asian-love-can-rot/

I don't feel that way. I mean, I looked up some bar graphs at Pew research and saw that Asian women are the least likely to be religious or take part in religious activities. Then I was like: "Tonya is right... I should branch out. This really bolsters her points."

If I met a black woman or a Latina or a Native American who was a secular, child-free, minimalist I'd be happy too.

But why not look into the demographic that is most statistically likely to share my secular values?

[Tammy]

Can’t you just look for a woman - rather a woman of a certain ethnicity?

[iris lilies]

I was remiss in listening to others, perhaps including you. But you know, sometimes someone brings up a good point and for whatever reason, it does not sink in at first. Then things happen over time, you live, you learn. I am not perfect in my rationality. I merely strive for it with the best of intentions.



Uh, but I don't. Why would I have to sell that?

Look, I know some guys have "yellow fever." But some Asian women have... I dunno... "white heat." haha

Besides, if anything I have a secular fetish. haha

Well, I near ya about information sinking in. The student will learn when his mind is open to the lesson. Most of us have to hear lessons several times before they resonate and we internalize them.

[iris lilies]

I was remiss in listening to others, perhaps including you. But you know, sometimes someone brings up a good point and for whatever reason, it does not sink in at first. Then things happen over time, you live, you learn. I am not perfect in my rationality. I merely strive for it with the best of intentions.



Uh, but I don't. Why would I have to sell that?

Look, I know some guys have "yellow fever." But some Asian women have... I dunno... "white heat." haha

Besides, if anything I have a secular fetish. haha

In the general world of white guys seeking Asian women, I think you DO have an advantage because you are not there for the usual Yellow Fever reasons (you guys used that phrase, I was not gonna use it!) so sell yourself!

you arent there for the petite beauty of sterotypical Asian women. In fact, you may have a hard time finding attraction with that population.

[Ultralight]

Well, in the general world of white guys seeking Asian women, I think you DO have an advantage because you are not there for the usual Yellow Fever reasons (you guys used that phrase, I was not gonna use it!) so sell yourself!

you arent there for the petite beauty of sterotypical Asian women. In fact, you may have a are time finding attraction with that population.

The first time I tried sparkling water I was utterly disgusted.

The second time I fell in love with that fizzy H2O!

Perhaps the same can be said about women with petite physiques.

So on online dating sites I have gotten flirts and likes from black women. Then I get a message like: "I take the flirt back. You are an atheist." or "I liked you based on your looks. Then I read your profile. Not interested anymore." or "We'll never be a match! I love Jesus! And you don't even know him."

But so far Asian women have been very receptive. It is like night and day. Buddhists seem to be mellow and non-evangelical. So that is pretty cool too.

[ApatheticNoMore]

well you probably do need to date a better personality match. meh I don't wish to deal in racial stereotypes here especially as it probably depends on region of the country, age, etc. etc.. I take it you don't like white women either? Although what race was your ex-wife?

[Ultralight]

well you probably do need to date a better personality match.

True!


meh I don't wish to deal in racial stereotypes here especially as it probably depends on region of the country, age, etc. etc..

Also true! But... sure, a woman from the Philippines is likely to be Xian -- probably Catholic. Though a woman from Thailand is likely to be Buddhist or secular. A woman from Vietnam is probably secular, same for China or Japan.


I take it you don't like white women either?

I like white women; it ought to go without saying.

And I have asked many out over the years. They tend to decline, or if we go on a date we quickly realize we're not a match. I am not sure why. Essentially though, white women tend to ignore my messages on dating sites at a much higher rate than black women.

But also, when I went to college and I was suddenly around black women all the time. I just noticed they gravitated toward me. Not sure why. One woman did try to explain her theory of why to me. She said: "You look at black women like we are just as attractive as another other race or ethnicity. You talk and flirt with us like you really mean it, you listen to us."


Although what race was your ex-wife?

She is white. She was a very unique woman though -- and we met when I was 21 and she was 19. And to be honest, I bet if she and I met today she would not even look my way for a second.

[bae]

Fascinating...

Exploring the world of Match.Com to collect data.

There's almost not a woman on there that doesn't list as her preference a preferred income of $150k+, and a desire for a height of > 6 foot.

Only about 9% of the US population makes > $100k/year, the median income is about $31k. 6 foot tall is the 85th percentile for males of all races.

Oh, and they want you to have no children, a desire to travel, yada yada yada.

Most of these women do not seem to be in the upper 10% themselves by most any useful metric to me....

Curious.

I'm going to put together a profile looking only for hot ladies 70+ years old who are wealthy, generous, with no children to quibble about inheritance issues, and in poor health.... I gots me bills to pay....

[Ultralight]

Fascinating...

Exploring the world of Match.Com to collect data.

There's almost not a woman on there that doesn't list as her preference a preferred income of $150k+, and a desire for a height of > 6 foot.

Only about 9% of the US population makes > $100k/year, the median income is about $31k. 6 foot tall is the 85th percentile for males of all races.

Oh, and they want you to have no children, a desire to travel, yada yada yada.

Most of these women do not seem to be in the upper 10% themselves by most any useful metric to me....

Curious.

I'm going to put together a profile looking only for hot ladies 70+ years old who are wealthy, generous, with no children to quibble about inheritance issues, and in poor health.... I gots me bills to pay....

Yeah... bae... we call these women "Match Clones."

[bae]

Yeah... bae... we call these women "Match Clones."

Compared to my random interactions here in real life based purely on talking to people at coffee shops and the market: most of the folks don't care about income or height, most have their own lives and are just friendly, and aren't looking for lifelong partners or support.

I think I'm sticking to drinking coffee.

[JaneV2.0]

Fascinating...

Exploring the world of Match.Com to collect data.

There's almost not a woman on there that doesn't list as her preference a preferred income of $150k+, and a desire for a height of > 6 foot.

Only about 9% of the US population makes > $100k/year, the median income is about $31k. 6 foot tall is the 85th percentile for males of all races.

Oh, and they want you to have no children, a desire to travel, yada yada yada.

Most of these women do not seem to be in the upper 10% themselves by most any useful metric to me....

Curious.

I'm going to put together a profile looking only for hot ladies 70+ years old who are wealthy, generous, with no children to quibble about inheritance issues, and in poor health.... I gots me bills to pay....

I find these things fascinating, because as I think I've expressed ad nauseum, my only financial requirement is that a potential companion be able to hold up his end of any dating expenses--at least most of the time. From what I hear, people's criteria are ridiculous, and of course you can't get a feel for chemistry on line. I never seriously dated anyone upward of average height because I don't like craning my neck to look at people. But it's good to be able to eliminate gold diggers and the shallow toute de suite, I guess. It's helpful when they show their hand up front.

[Rogar]

There was an interesting program that I think was one Radio Lab on online dating. They attributed the top reason for failures to the fact that both males and females are seeking partner potential based on expectations of someone 25% more attractive than they are. I was hiking behind a couple of nice appearing women not long ago and had to laugh at their overheard online dating stories. One was like, he was a nice looking guy with hair and when we met I didn't recognize him because he was BALD! They both seemed to have experiences with men mis-representing their age as being younger than reality or photos that were many years old. Also men responding that were years above their indicated age range. And then the ones about men making sexual propositions way before appropriate.

My days of online dating attempts were disappointing and are over. The women I met did not represent themselves honestly and it was becoming a waste of time. I can't recall where I heard it, but there was a number floating around that you had to meet up with something like 12 people on average before finding someone you would date more than once or twice. I suppose if you make a big project of it you get a good match at some point.

[Teacher Terry]

When most of my friends got divorced 22 years ago they all did online dating. All ended up with their present partners after going on between 15-20 dates.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Short is good if you are short yourself = perfect height for kissing.

[Teacher Terry]

Height doesn’t matter. I had 2 female friends that were 6ft tall that married men who were 5’9”.

[JaneV2.0]

...
My days of online dating attempts were disappointing and are over. The women I met did not represent themselves honestly and it was becoming a waste of time. I can't recall where I heard it, but there was a number floating around that you had to meet up with something like 12 people on average before finding someone you would date more than once or twice. I suppose if you make a big project of it you get a good match at some point.

Yes--but isn't that true no matter how you meet people? When I was unattached, I figured maybe one of a hundred men were of interest; On-line questionnaires would probably narrow that down somewhat. But--as I noted--there's no accounting for chemistry.

[Rogar]

Yes--but isn't that true no matter how you meet people? When I was unattached, I figured maybe one of a hundred men were of interest; On-line questionnaires would probably narrow that down somewhat. But--as I noted--there's no accounting for chemistry.

No argument from me. I was merely pointing out there there are some pitfalls to internet dating that are different from meeting people the "old fashioned" way. For people who want a partner right here and now and haven't had luck through work, social groups, introductions through friends, or casual person to person meet ups I think it's great. However it can become more of a focused project.

[JaneV2.0]

Introductions by friends were the worst! I discouraged any and all blind dates and still got blindsided a couple of times. My friends obviously hated me. :~)

[bae]

After some initial experimentation, I have switched to an entirely in-person approach, and that is going swimmingly well. Local folks of interest to me are already mostly known to me already, and a simple chat, meet-and-coffee, and whatnot seem to be productive. And folks outside my immediate area I have been making initial in-person contacts at events of mutual interest to us all, which serves as a great initial selection sieve, as my interests both for people to hang out with, or to perhaps entertain closer relationships with, are a bit difficult to "match".

(Vaguely-related, I may write up my experiences this last 4 days at a residential retreat/seminar, where of the 24 people present, I was pretty much the only sorta-cis-standard-male, and almost everyone else was a queer female. It was an absolutely fascinating and educational experience to be in this space with so many focused and caring people, and great advisors. I made quite a few friends, and some who perhaps may be more. It was really transformative.)

[Tammy]

I would love to hear about that, Bae. My daughter and son in law are polyamorous, which led me to recently read “the ethical slut” to gain a better understanding of these non-traditional life choices.

[Ultralight]

I am just taking a break from dating. I have a lot of stuff going on. For one thing in the immediate -- I want my eye to heal up. haha

But also, I am contending with this compulsive overeating problem. This requires me to go to meetings, do readings, talk with my sponsor, and so forth. At one time I had a hold of the fork; now the fork has a hold of me. So I need to deal with this.

Another thing is that I need to keep focused on building my emergency fund back up and managing my personal finances better.

So I just have some things going on, some good habits I am working on building up, and I just don't have the time or wherewithal at the moment to do much dating.

[SteveinMN]

So I just have some things going on, some good habits I am working on building up, and I just don't have the time or wherewithal at the moment to do much dating.
A (laudable) position which requires no justification. We all have only so much energy each day and you have to be happy with yourself before you can be happy with anyone else. Good luck!

[frugal-one]

After some initial experimentation, I have switched to an entirely in-person approach, and that is going swimmingly well. Local folks of interest to me are already mostly known to me already, and a simple chat, meet-and-coffee, and whatnot seem to be productive. And folks outside my immediate area I have been making initial in-person contacts at events of mutual interest to us all, which serves as a great initial selection sieve, as my interests both for people to hang out with, or to perhaps entertain closer relationships with, are a bit difficult to "match".

(Vaguely-related, I may write up my experiences this last 4 days at a residential retreat/seminar, where of the 24 people present, I was pretty much the only sorta-cis-standard-male, and almost everyone else was a queer female. It was an absolutely fascinating and educational experience to be in this space with so many focused and caring people, and great advisors. I made quite a few friends, and some who perhaps may be more. It was really transformative.)

How do they become more than friends if everyone else besides you was a "queer female?"

[Ultralight]

How do they become more than friends if everyone else besides you was a "queer female?"
I think queer females can be attracted to straight dudes.

[Rogar]

I have enjoyed a few friendships with gay women. It was sort of nice knowing there were no hidden agendas around a romantic relationship...unless i missed something.

[bae]

How do they become more than friends if everyone else besides you was a "queer female?"

Queer covers quite a range. And I'm not particularly non-queer myself.

[frugal-one]

Queer covers quite a range. And I'm not particularly non-queer myself.

What is your definition of queer?

[bae]

What is your definition of queer?

That is almost the subject of an entire thread, as it is a word full of connotations, insult, attempts to reclaim, activism, academic study, and debate.

In this case, I meant it in the senses of:

4. an identity that has been taken back as a word to be more inclusive, incorporating all of the LGBTQIA community (the queer community)

5. an identity used to be vague or non-specific about a person's sexual orientation, identifying with the LGBT community as a whole. Also a description of people's non-heterosexual sexual orientations in a non-specific and unbiased manner

6. an identity used because the terms gay, lesbian, or bisexual are not sufficient for their inner feelings

7. an identity used because some individuals whose gender or sex is non-conforming may not have an easy way to culturally identify their sexual orientation.

8. an academic word used in the context of “queer theory” and “queer studies.” The term queer replaces the term homosexual or LGBT.

And with a tinge of activism stirred in.

[JaneV2.0]

I have a friend who identifies as "genderqueer," apparently a non-binary descriptor, in line with bae's numbers 5 or 6 above. I don't really understand the distinction relative to them, but it's not my evaluation that counts.

[jp1]

That is almost the subject of an entire thread, as it is a word full of connotations, insult, attempts to reclaim, activism, academic study, and debate.

In this case, I meant it in the senses of:

4. an identity that has been taken back as a word to be more inclusive, incorporating all of the LGBTQIA community (the queer community)

5. an identity used to be vague or non-specific about a person's sexual orientation, identifying with the LGBT community as a whole. Also a description of people's non-heterosexual sexual orientations in a non-specific and unbiased manner

6. an identity used because the terms gay, lesbian, or bisexual are not sufficient for their inner feelings

7. an identity used because some individuals whose gender or sex is non-conforming may not have an easy way to culturally identify their sexual orientation.

8. an academic word used in the context of “queer theory” and “queer studies.” The term queer replaces the term homosexual or LGBT.

And with a tinge of activism stirred in.

I'm intrigued that we didn't get to read 1, 2 and 3.

[jp1]

I would love to hear about that, Bae. My daughter and son in law are polyamorous, which led me to recently read “the ethical slut” to gain a better understanding of these non-traditional life choices.

If you want another recommendation I'd strongly suggest "Many Love: A Memoir of Polyamory and Finding Love(s)." Sophie (the author) is perhaps a bit more rough around the edges than the authors of The Ethical Slut, but there's so much heart and understanding in her writing. And she includes pictures she's drawn of her various boyfriends. They're adorable and add so much to the book...

[bae]

I'm intrigued that we didn't get to read 1, 2 and 3.

Ah, they were, from the first source I grabbed so I wouldn't have to type much (I dislocated my elbow a few days back and am a one-handed typer at the moment):

1. something that is odd, different, strange or non-mainstream
2. a historical derogatory term against people who were homosexual (also see #9)
3. an identity in which Gay and Lesbian individuals have taken back so they could take the negativity away from the word and use it to say they were proud

And at the end was:

9. A contemporary derogatory term and insult used to describe someone in the LGBT community, usually by someone outside of the LGBT community, or used to describe any other person who you do not like based on their sexual orientation, gender identity, gender expression, general looks and/or behavior, or an insult to a non-LGBT person to control their behavior.


I was looking for a list of the different nuances. But as you know, there are entire books written on the topic these days. Thank goodness.

I've handed out a fair number of copies of this book:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51XfilV9rJL._SX343_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

[bae]

This week's adventure was interesting.

I found a nice person on one of the online dating sites, who lives in a city on the mainland nearby. There was no apparent romantic or other "spark", but she was a great correspondent, and gave me all sorts of advice on the online dating heck.

The other day I took a boat over to the mainland, and met her for brunch, and she (pre-arranged) brought some of her single friends who she thought might be fun for me to meet. Which was true.

So, a blend of new and old technologies. And I met some fun folks, with no expectations, and got an entrée into the unexpectedly diverse music, art, foodie, and social scene in a nearby city that I can reach in 40 minutes in my small boat.

[razz]

Positive all the way round. Nice post to read, Bae

[Teacher Terry]

That sounds great Bae!

[Ultralight]

This week's adventure was interesting.

I found a nice person on one of the online dating sites, who lives in a city on the mainland nearby. There was no apparent romantic or other "spark", but she was a great correspondent, and gave me all sorts of advice on the online dating heck.

The other day I took a boat over to the mainland, and met her for brunch, and she (pre-arranged) brought some of her single friends who she thought might be fun for me to meet. Which was true.

So, a blend of new and old technologies. And I met some fun folks, with no expectations, and got an entrée into the unexpectedly diverse music, art, foodie, and social scene in a nearby city that I can reach in 40 minutes in my small boat.

This sounds like a win.

[Ultralight]

Here are a few updates for me.

Back in April I met a seemingly nice gal. She was a bit young for me at age 33, but she is highly educated and fun. She is Jewish, was born in CA but moved to Israel from age 9 to age 16, then moved to PA. She speaks English and Hebrew. She has red hair.

She is a doctor, a pediatrician to be exact.

She wants kids. But for some reason we both seemed to like each other and we went on dates and things progressed romantically.

She revealed to me that she is a recovering alcoholic and goes to AA. She has been sober a few years.

She also told me that until about a year ago she was in a relationship with a guy who probably had Borderline Personality Disorder or some such.

Needless to say: She had some baggage.

But hey, so do I.

There came a point where I realized that she was not going to budge on the kids issue. And I sure as hell ain't tryin' to have no damn kids!

So I politely say: "If you really want kids, then this probably won't work."

She agreed but asked if we could still have "relations."

I told her: "You are the kind of woman I would really invest it, I could see a future with. And I don't want to invest if we'll just implode later because of the kids issue. And I don't want to be friends-with-benefits because when I look in your eyes I will want to see more, I will want to see emotion. So it is best if we just don't see each other anymore."

She said in response: "After we first met on our first date, I want you to know I tried to pass you off to one of my coworkers. But she wasn't interested either. And I also want you to know I never thought of you as the kind of guy I would consider for a life partner or husband."

[Ultralight]

Online dating is like sifting through a trash heap.

[herbgeek]

She said in response: "After we first met on our first date, I want you to know I tried to pass you off to one of my coworkers. But she wasn't interested either. And I also want you to know I never thought of you as the kind of guy I would consider for a life partner or husband.

Wow. That was hurtful and so unnecessary.

[Ultralight]

Wow. That was hurtful and so unnecessary.

My reply was: "I wish you the best of luck. Take care."

[iris lilies]

My reply was: "I wish you the best of luck. Take care."

Awwwww, UL, that is pretty sucky. But you did have some good times around it all.

[Ultralight]

Awwwww, UL, that is pretty sucky. But you did have some good times around it all.

I mean... yeah.

The thing is that this sort of thing is more normal than abnormal. Or should I say "normalized?"

[gimmethesimplelife]

My reply was: "I wish you the best of luck. Take care."Very classy answer!!! Rob

[Teacher Terry]

You rejected her so she got mean. I don’t believe what she said. You would have been right if you wanted kids.

[Ultralight]

You rejected her so she got mean. I don’t believe what she said. You would have been right if you wanted kids.

You might be right...

[Ultralight]

A couple months ago a female friend of mine introduced me to a single gal. On paper, this woman looked like she had it all:
-Black and thick
-Natural hair
-Educated and employed
-Vegetarian who can cook Indian and Thai foods
-Liberal
-Excellent taste in books and films
-Child-free by choice

And so forth...

So I take one look at her face and my A-dar goes off!

But we talk... I learn a few more things about her, I ask a few leading questions and then my suspicions were almost confirmed. So I finally just ask her if she is asexual.

Boom! My A-dar was right. She told me she is asexual.

So that stopped things in their tracks.

[iris lilies]

A couple months ago a female friend of mine introduced me to a single gal. On paper, this woman looked like she had it all:
-Black and thick
-Natural hair
-Educated and employed
-Vegetarian who can cook Indian and Thai foods
-Liberal
-Excellent taste in books and films
-Child-free by choice

And so forth...

So I take one look at her face and my A-dar goes off!

But we talk... I learn a few more things about her, I ask a few leading questions and then my suspicions were almost confirmed. So I finally just ask her if she is asexual.

Boom! My A-dar was right. She told me she is asexual.

So that stopped things in their tracks.

really! What were the signs?

[Ultralight]

really! What were the signs?

Well, you use gaydar, right? You understand it, and how it works? It is much the same for A-dar.

So here is how it works for me, and probably others.

I see a person, like just look at their face. And then I get a little "spidey sense" that the person is A.
Then I look for some others signs, like with this woman our conversations never got flirty or romantic. They certainly did not get sexual. Also, the clothes she wore always looked presentable, but not form-fitting. She was not dressing to attract a man. Same kinda thing with her hair -- natural and pretty, but not the style to attract most men.

I asked some probing questions such as:
-When was your last long term relationship? Her answer was never, and she was 43.
-Who is your celebrity crush? "Oh... ah... I have several..." This is a classic A answer. They don't have one and they don't even think about it. So if you spring this question on them, they have nothing prepared. So after some considerable stumbling over her thoughts she said that Aquaman actor, Jason Momoa. He is the current hotness, so it makes sense she'd draw this name out of thin air.
-She said she loved Salsa dancing, especially with gay men because they never expected to do anything besides dance
-She said a reason she never had a real relationship was that she was focused on finding herself and some spiritual exploration (since asexuals are not trying to bang or get banged they tend to get rather deep into other things).
-I asked her if she had ever been in love. She said no.
-I asked her if she was sexually attracted to men, her tone of voice and hesitance led me to believe she did not really understand sexual attraction.

Asexuals are about 1 or 2 percent of the population. But I can usually clock them on sight.

Now, any one of two of the things listed above would not necessarily give a person away as asexual. It is more about the constellation of these and some other things.

You have heard of "gay face," well, I theorize there is something similar for asexuals, I call it A-face. haha

Like all the other LGBTQIIAA folks, I fully support their rights.

I just don't want to date one who is awkwardly toying with the idea of dating because she is trying to conform to society's norms.

[iris lilies]

Fascinating!

Until you said it, I forgot that Jason Momoa is MY current crush, but not for mainstream reasons. He came into my circle of awareness because DH and I had an argument about him. DH said “I heard that the two stars of Aquaman were from Iowa” and I immediately googled the star of Aquaman and saw it was the hugely sexy guy from Season 1 of Games of Thrones. And I told DH “there is no way in hell that hunk of exotica is from whitebread Iowa.” Then I Googled it and sure enough, DH was right. I hate when that happens! Since then I have googled Momoa and have seen his adventure in revisiting Iowa, and have heard his darling story of how he married HIS celebrity crush, Lisa Bonet.

But back to A-sexual people to date: all of that adds up, you are right. It would mainly be the lack of any flirtatious interaction that would tip one off.

I started to write about some of the questions I have I just have a general discussion of signals in dating as carried out in dress and manners, but I decided not to because that’s getting into stereotypes. This could make for interesting conversation for sure.

[Ultralight]

Fascinating!

Until you said it, I forgot that Jason Momoa is MY current crush, but not for mainstream reasons. He came into my circle of awareness because DH and I had an argument about him. DH said “I heard that the two stars of Aquaman were from Iowa” and I immediately googled the star of Aquaman and saw it was the hugely sexy guy from Season 1 of Games of Thrones. And I told DH “there is no way in hell that hunk of exotica is from whitebread Iowa.” Then I Googled it and sure enough, DH was right. I hate when that happens! Since then I have googled Momoa and have seen his adventure in revisiting Iowa, and have heard his darling story of how he married HIS celebrity crush, Lisa Bonet.

But back to A-sexual people to date: all of that adds up, you are right. It would mainly be the lack of any flirtatious interaction that would tip one off.

I started to write about some of the questions I have I just have a general discussion of signals in dating as carried out in dress and manners, but I decided not to because that’s getting into stereotypes. This could make for interesting conversation for sure.

My celeb crush is Tiffany Haddish.

I think you should simply note that you are discussing stereotypes and then move forward with your questions and ideas. We are just kicking ideas around here. Not serious!

[iris lilies]

Well, I wonder if you have run across women who are not warm or flirty but who do dress in very “feminine” ways, for lack of a better word to describe girl clothing attractive to men. What would those signals mean?

or what about a woman who is warm and open but dresses in drab man-clothes? I guess that might be a very practical tom-boy girlfriend. She would have the fun sex with you and would also fix your car. That actually would be a great girlfriend to have.

[Ultralight]

Well, I wonder if you have run across women who are not warm or flirty but who do dress in very “feminine” ways, for lack of a better word to describe girl clothing attractive to men. What would those signals mean?

or what about a woman who is warm and open but dresses in drab man-clothes? I guess that might be a very practical tom-boy girlfriend. She would have the fun sex with you and would also fix your car. That actually would be a great girlfriend to have.

In both of these cases it would be hard for me to feel like I confirmed anything particular from just these two visual indicators.

But to speculate for fun...

Hmmm...

In the first case, I might just not be her type so she is not being warm or flirty with me. I suppose she could be a high femme lesbian. Either way, not a big deal in my mind.

As for the second case, a "practical tomboy girlfriend" would be totally fine with me. I would flirt back and ask her out!

[bae]

or what about a woman who is warm and open but dresses in drab man-clothes? I guess that might be a very practical tom-boy girlfriend. She would have the fun sex with you and would also fix your car. That actually would be a great girlfriend to have.

I know a wonderful lady like that - she owns and operates a cattle ranch, and doesn't "dress to attract men". She's a mean hand with a tractor though!

[Tammy]

Sometimes women dress in a practical way because they grew up on a farm ... I only wore old stuff at home as a kid because it just got dirty and torn from working outside all the time. I remember being surprised when I found out that my friends who lived in town wore nice clothing every day.

[Ultralight]

Just one factor -- such as wearing plain clothes -- does not deem a person asexual.
Remember I said that I make my conclusion based on a constellation of indicators.

[Tammy]

Perhaps I’m just uncomfortable with the categorization of people into these groups based on a strangers assessment.

[Ultralight]

Perhaps I’m just uncomfortable with the categorization of people into these groups based on a strangers assessment.

Then don't date, because you start out assessing a stranger and putting them in one category or other, and over time you continue to do so.

[bae]

Then don't date, because you start out assessing a stranger and putting them in one category or other, and over time you continue to do so.

This is a bit tricky, at least for me. Several people that I've had an initial reaction to or classification of recently have turned out to be completely different once I got to know them.

I suspect one problem is that people live behind masks so much, and deliver a performance of themselves in public, instead of allowing their true selves to be expressed.

My life is too short to deal with multi-layered game-playing and performance, so I've started going into fairly in-depth conversations with people early on, to see what's really there. Seems to be helping. And when you run into someone whose mask is hiding something not-good, it becomes apparent pretty rapidly.

But I'm still learning.

[Ultralight]

This is a bit tricky, at least for me. Several people that I've had an initial reaction to or classification of recently have turned out to be completely different once I got to know them.

I suspect one problem is that people live behind masks so much, and deliver a performance of themselves in public, instead of allowing their true selves to be expressed.

My life is too short to deal with multi-layered game-playing and performance, so I've started going into fairly in-depth conversations with people early on, to see what's really there. Seems to be helping. And when you run into someone whose mask is hiding something not-good, it becomes apparent pretty rapidly.

But I'm still learning.

You make good points (which is a skill you have mastered!).

I try to stay open to new evidence. So if a person presents themselves one way -- or "sends their representative" -- then I reassess them after I learn more.


The dating game is not easy, and I have seen some of the wackiest of the wacky.

[bae]

The dating game is not easy, and I have seen some of the wackiest of the wacky.

I'm very new at this whole thing, I've never "dated" before in my entire life.

All advice, checklists, warning signs to look out for greatly appreciated :-)

[JaneV2.0]

The best advice I've seen is to avoid people who have more problems than you do.

I would want a partner who was willing to pay their own way without complaint, aside from all the usual considerations.

I've encountered resistance to this view, but I wouldn't consider dating a chronically depressed person--life is challenging enough without attaching yourself to a sandbag. Choose someone you can laugh with--often.

[Teacher Terry]

Jane, I totally agree. My husband makes me laugh multiple times a day.

[iris lilies]

This is a bit tricky, at least for me. Several people that I've had an initial reaction to or classification of recently have turned out to be completely different once I got to know them.

I suspect one problem is that people live behind masks so much, and deliver a performance of themselves in public, instead of allowing their true selves to be expressed.

My life is too short to deal with multi-layered game-playing and performance, so I've started going into fairly in-depth conversations with people early on, to see what's really there. Seems to be helping. And when you run into someone whose mask is hiding something not-good, it becomes apparent pretty rapidly.

But I'm still learning.

Dating is like getting to know anyone else for purposes of social interaction and friendship, it’s just that the stakes are higher for dating. I use the slow and steady method myself. I also draw a really tight boundary around true intimacy friendships and only let people in after a few years.

Some years ago we got close to a couple in the neighborhood and I knew the guy was volatile, he had mental illness self declared and I knew he would kick me to the curb sooner or later, as he did with other relationships. And he did. But before that he was smart and entertaining and a fine companion for many things. And yeah I probably deserved being kicked to the curb! but it is ok. I wasn’t hurt and I thought it was a little bit funny but now we don’t interact and that’s OK we are friends with his wife very casually now.

I don’t see how you (the generic you) can really find out the bad stuff through an in-depth conversation or two.


Please note – I am not saying it cannot be done, I guess I mean that I can’t really identify that bad stuff early on. Not sure that most people can. We need to observe the actions of other humans in several situations over time to get solid sense of who they are.

[Ultralight]

I don’t see how you (the generic you) can really find out the bad stuff through an in-depth conversation or two.




Want me to post some screenshots? You will see how much is often revealed in a conversation or two, or just from the profile summary itself.

[catherine]

I don’t see how you (the generic you) can really find out the bad stuff through an in-depth conversation or two.


Please note – I am not saying it cannot be done, I guess I mean that I can’t really identify that bad stuff early on. Not sure that most people can. We need to observe the actions of other humans in several situations over time to get solid sense of who they are.

That's true... that's why so many TV shows and/or casual acquaintances typically communicate: "I never would have guessed," or "He/she seemed so normal." There are many wolves in sheep's clothing.

[Ultralight]

That's true... that's why so many TV shows and/or casual acquaintances typically communicate: "I never would have guessed," or "He/she seemed so normal." There are many wolves in sheep's clothing.

Again, wanna see some screenshots from dating sites? Profile summaries and text convos.

[bae]

Again, wanna see some screenshots from dating sites? Profile summaries and text convos.

Yes please! I am engaged in serious cultural anthropology here!

[Ultralight]

Yes please! I am engaged in serious cultural anthropology here!

Here you go.

2825

2826

[bae]

Hmmm - she certainly is direct about her requirements!

[Ultralight]

More...

2827

[Ultralight]

Hmmm - she certainly is direct about her requirements!

To another level of direct...

2828

2829

2830

[Ultralight]

Sometimes the profile pics alone make me think: "She has some serious problems!"

An example.

2831

[Ultralight]

A friend of mine who has never dated on the internet wanted to see if I was exaggerating about some of the garbage you have to sift through. I let her swipe through a bunch of profiles...

She was like: "No...no...no...no..NO!...no...no...NO! NO! NO!...no way. heck no. Hell no!...no...no!" LOL

[bae]

A friend of mine who has never dated on the internet wanted to see if I was exaggerating about some of the garbage you have to sift through. I let her swipe through a bunch of profiles...

I was at a dinner party around New Years Eve, and the Younger Generation all pulled out their phones and gave me quite an education. The horrors they were subjected to.

[Ultralight]

I was at a dinner party around New Years Eve, and the Younger Generation all pulled out their phones and gave me quite an education. The horrors they were subjected to.

Gotta find that needle in the haystack. :)

[bae]

To another level of direct...


I can appreciate the directness, and there's no shame in that.

The grammar though, and the very vanilla hetero-cis-normative outlook on sexual activity would discourage me. "There are more things in heaven and Earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy..."

Good to get that out of the way out front.

[bae]

Sometimes the profile pics alone make me think: "She has some serious problems!"

An example.


That photo makes me think "living the unexamined life".

[Tammy]

I think I’d choose being single rather than go through all that. I’ve been in a monogamous marriage since 1981. It wouldn’t be worth the effort required.

Maybe that’s a sign of asexuality. 😄

[Ultralight]

I think I’d choose being single rather than go through all that. I’ve been in a monogamous marriage since 1981. It wouldn’t be worth the effort required.

Maybe that’s a sign of asexuality. 

There are a variety of people -- both men and women -- who come to that conclusion despite not being asexual. haha

The main problem with the disengagement approach is that for most of us, loneliness is painful and haunts us.

When you wake up alone, make breakfast alone, walk the dog alone, get ready for work alone, commute to work alone, have no one to send you cute little notes via text during the day, have no one to come home to at the end of the day, no one to make or eat dinner with, no one to get your freak on with, etc. day after day after day, it wears on you.

So you drag yourself back to a dating site hoping to find that diamond in the rough.

But also, you will go to a park or stroll through your neighborhood or go to a grocery store and see other couples. You see seemingly happy couples holding hands, laughing, or doing fun stuff together. And you think: "What is so wrong with me that I cannot get that with someone?"

So it eats away at your self-worth.

Loneliness is perceived by the brain much in the way that pain is. It also is deadly. Look up the research on it. Your ticker is more likely to give out. You are much more likely to get dementia.

Of course, many of us who are not successful in romance try to bolster the other parts of our social lives. We may get out there and hang out with friends more often or we may spend more time with family (parents, siblings, nephews, and nieces, etc.) or we may get more involved at work or in professional organizations.

But this is not what we actually need -- we need a life partner. It is like having scurvy and needing vitamin C but only being able to access foods devoid of vitamin C. So you can eat and eat, but without that vitamin C you will never really be healthy. The scurvy never goes away.

So again, we drag ourselves back to the online dating sites.

[Ultralight]

I was at a dinner party around New Years Eve, and the Younger Generation all pulled out their phones and gave me quite an education. The horrors they were subjected to.

I guess that for women on these dating sites a major problem they deal with is men sending them pictures of their d&@#s.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I think I’d choose being single rather than go through all that. I’ve been in a monogamous marriage since 1981. It wouldn’t be worth the effort required.

Maybe that’s a sign of asexuality.

sex has never really been central to me, so I probably tend to be more so than many .... (yes I have a partner, no it's not platonic). And no dating isn't pleasant.

[Ultralight]

sex has never really been central to me, so I probably tend to be more so than many .... (yes I have a partner, no it's not platonic). And no dating isn't pleasant.

I am 39, so I am still young enough and healthy enough to wanna get froiky with my significant other.

[bae]

I am 39, so I am still young enough and healthy enough to wanna get froiky with my significant other.

I just turned 56, and sensuality and physical intimacy are a big deal for me. I don't expect that to change as I get older, too much, assuming I remain healthy. There seem to be plenty of folks in this age range who have similar outlooks, thank goodness.

One of the several Next Careers I am mulling over involves getting into education, counseling, and therapy in this area.

[Teacher Terry]

I think a majority of people want loving sex no matter the age.

[Ultralight]

I think a majority of people want loving sex no matter the age.

Get on a dating site. You might change your mind.

[Ultralight]

One of the several Next Careers I am mulling over involves getting into education, counseling, and therapy in this area.

That can be a really good cause. :)

[SteveinMN]

Here you go.
2826
When I was using dating Web sites I don't remember running across women quite that -- umm -- direct about their needs. Well, maybe not that particular need. But I do recall the profiles that over-emphasized* integrity and monogamy and the "place" each partner needed to have in a potential relationship.

* Nothing wrong with those things at all but when those (or similar statements about financial or emotional stability) are mentioned very specifically 3-4 times in a single paragraph, to the exclusion of any other strong expressions of the poster's personal values, one wonders if the prospective partner is operating from a healthy place herself.

I remember reading profiles (and private messages) from women who clearly wanted to be submissive and "kept"; I know some guys go for that but I had just finished a stint as the cruise director in a relationship and I didn't want that at all. I remember reading profiles that sounded straight out of a Hallmark movie. Maybe I read too much into them but when all you get is a picture and a short profile (and the list of "filtered" attributes), it's an easy tendency to read between the lines, especially when a pattern appeared to be present.

[bae]

Maybe I read too much into them but ...

I agree - there are certain ways of presentation that speak volumes :-)

Related: I used to interview for colleges. Some people's profiles look just like the overstuffed list-o-interests-and-activities the overprepped cardboard cutout college applicants - they check all the required boxes, but nothing stands out.

My correspondence with my mainland contact began because she mentioned a topic she was starting to learn about, and it was something I had been thinking of investigating as well, so I sent her a simple note concerning the topic and what she had discovered about local resources. Her profile stood out, because it had something different and interesting in it that revealed there was a real person on the other side of the app.

[Ultralight]

My correspondence with my mainland contact began because she mentioned a topic she was starting to learn about, and it was something I had been thinking of investigating as well, so I sent her a simple note concerning the topic and what she had discovered about local resources. Her profile stood out, because it had something different and interesting in it that revealed there was a real person on the other side of the app.

Definitely a win!

[Ultralight]

...one wonders if the prospective partner is operating from a healthy place herself.


Ah...yup!


I remember reading profiles (and private messages) from women who clearly wanted to be submissive and "kept"; I know some guys go for that but I had just finished a stint as the cruise director in a relationship and I didn't want that at all. I remember reading profiles that sounded straight out of a Hallmark movie. Maybe I read too much into them but when all you get is a picture and a short profile (and the list of "filtered" attributes), it's an easy tendency to read between the lines, especially when a pattern appeared to be present.

You can get quite keen to those patterns.

[Ultralight]

One thing I often think about is how much easier it was to get a date back when I was 33.

At 39 getting a date is hard!

When I was 33 I could literally get 3 or 4 dates a week with not much effort. And the dates would be with very physically attractive (to me!) women who were highly educated and accomplished -- statisticians and epidemiologists and architects.

But now, the only women who seem to be interested have some lifestyle problems or are kinda crazy. Mostly tired, exhausted single moms, Borderlines, women who are just looking for a side-piece, etc.

Would 6 years really make that much difference? Thoughts?

[iris lilies]

One thing I often think about is how much easier it was to get a date back when I was 33.

At 39 getting a date is hard!

When I was 33 I could literally get 3 or 4 dates a week with not much effort. And the dates would be with very physically attractive (to me!) women who were highly educated and accomplished -- statisticians and epidemiologists and architects.

But now, the only women who seem to be interested have some lifestyle problems or are kinda crazy. Mostly tired, exhausted single moms, Borderlines, women who are just looking for a side-piece, etc.

Would 6 years really make that much difference? Thoughts?

My gut reaction is that in another 6 years you will have many choice, the pool chamges because those exhausted single mothers will have children more independent.

But then, you have always considered older women, so I dont know what to tell ya.

[Ultralight]

My gut reaction is that in another 6 years you will have many choice, the pool chamges because those exhausted single mothers will have children more independent.

But then, you have always considered older women, so I dont know what to tell ya.

An acquaintance of mine told me to ask single moms the bomb shelter question. You heard of this?

[bae]

An acquaintance of mine told me to ask single moms the bomb shelter question. You heard of this?

"Would it bother you if I had a bomb shelter?"

[Ultralight]

The hypothetical question/thought exercise is something like this:

Suppose the Russians are about to launch an attack. But you knew this was coming so you had a bomb shelter built in your back yard. The government sends out an alarm saying to take shelter. So you and your kid go to your bomb shelter. A few minutes later, your baby-daddy and your new husband (who you are happy with) show up to get in the bomb shelter too.

Problem is, the bomb shelter only holds three. So you have to choose who you will let it -- the father of your child or your new husband. Who do you choose?

[bae]

. So you have to choose who you will let it -- the father of your child or your new husband. Who do you choose?

How much salt or other meat-preserving technology does the shelter have available?

[Teacher Terry]

Super easy question: new husband.

[Ultralight]

Super easy question: new husband.
Even if your kids were screaming: "Save daddy! Save our dad!"

[bae]

Even if your kids were screaming: "Save daddy! Save our dad!"

I think the answer to that will very much depend on the nature of the ex-.

A rational assessment of your child's survival chances might well rule the ex- out from participating.

[Teacher Terry]

No contest.

[lmerullo]

I have gotten lost. Why are you asking the bomb shelter question? To see if you should even bother dating someone? Because I don't see this as a good filter, honestly.

BTW, is there any answer that is more right? Because I would not want to be faced with that decision and I'm married to my children's father (first/only marriage).

[Teacher Terry]

I think if they choose the ex don’t date them is the point . I don’t hate my ex so it would be hard.

[Ultralight]

I asked approximately 20 single moms The Bomb Shelter question. A few refused to answer -- which I was fine with. A couple with what they claimed were horrible exes said they would save the new husband. One crazy woman said she would let both men in and then she would get blowed up by the rooskies. I did not believe her.

Most women say they would save their baby-daddy (or daddies).

And in many ways, it makes sense for them to do so. But more to the point: The emotions for the baby-daddy are strong!

I would like someone to ask single dads this question!

[herbgeek]

It may not be that there is still a lot of emotion for the baby daddy, but that they wouldn't want to deprive their child of both parents.

[Ultralight]

It may not be that there is still a lot of emotion for the baby daddy, but that they wouldn't want to deprive their child of both parents.
Right. And that makes sense in a lot of ways.

[Tammy]

That question would feel to me the same as making me choose which of my children can’t enter the bunker.

The woman loved one man and now loves another - but that doesn’t mean she hates the one she used to love.

We need a better understanding of polyamory and serial monogamy. We can love more than one person. We accept that idea in friendships and families, but not in romantic relationships.

[Ultralight]

That question would feel to me the same as making me choose which of my children can’t enter the bunker.

The woman loved one man and now loves another - but that doesn’t mean she hates the one she used to love.

We need a better understanding of polyamory and serial monogamy. We can love more than one person. We accept that idea in friendships and families, but not in romantic relationships.

Are you poly?

I think most men would not want to see a moment of hesitation from their wife in such a scenario or even just when considering the question. haha

But I think it is better for men to just accept that if they are the new husband and a woman has kids by another man then as the new husband they are just a lower priority or not quite as important as the father of her kids.

[Teacher Terry]

I think accepting that you are lower is garbage. My husband would choose me. It would be a horrible situation to have to experience.

[razz]

Maybe, I am out of touch with the world as it is at present but I loved my DH for the qualities he exhibited. The 'bomb shelter' question would have negated most of what he stood for - service to others, loyalty to family, honesty/accuracy in all that he did, empathy often expressed with a wink and sharing, game for most of my ideas and partner in our adventures, cute smile and gorgeous blue eyes when happy and grey when sad. It was not about him but about others and giving to them. So, I don't understand much of this discussion.

Good thing that DH was a major part of my life and may explain why despite a number of suggestions to look online for a new partner, I am quite happy with my little beagle and friends for company and conversation.

Dare I suggest that this discussion is beginning to sound like a market place when one examines the merchandise for sale, checking the teeth for quality. Is it just me or are others getting this impression? If yes, so be it. If not just me, how could the discussion enlarge and what could be included?

[herbgeek]

Dare I suggest that this discussion is beginning to sound like a market place when one examines the merchandise for sale, checking the teeth for quality.

Seems silly to me to disregard potential partners - or even friendships- just based on their answer to a purely hypothetical question. What really matters to me is the actual behavior I observe. But I suppose if you have way more interest in you than you can handle, that a theoretical question is as good a way as any to whittle down the candidates. ;)

[Teacher Terry]

20 years ago when many of my friends were newly single in their 40’s they used online dating. On average people had between 12-18 different people before finding the one. Everyone ended up remarried. By the time someone is in their 60’s it may just be too much trouble.

[bae]

Online dating in my area is a bit odd.

The county is made up entirely of islands, offshore the US. Right between Vancouver BC, Victoria BC, and Bellingham & Anacortes USA.

If you set the "search radius" on the main online dating tools to 15 miles, you get most of the people in the county. At 16-17 miles, you begin picking up hundreds of people, but they are all in Canada or the US mainland.

Now, the in-county population of people using the non-instant-hookup dating sites seems to be very small. As in, I recognize every single person on my island on the site (all 8 of them) and most of the ones from the neighboring islands (all 12 of them).

But once you go past the in-county boundary, you have hundreds of hits, but, you have a many-hour logistical problem to solve to see someone in person.

So far, for local folks, I've found it handier to just go into the village and talk to people at the market or restaurants, or go to local events and chat face-to-face.

[Tammy]

I’m not poly. But I totally get it. I think if I knew at age 16 what I know now, and if religion were removed from my background, I would have either not married, been poly, or explored bisexuality. Sometimes I wonder if I’m a little asexual, then I think no it’s just menopause. Ha!

Things are so fluid now.

Much literature and film would be ruined if poly were an option.