For those who follow YMOYL, what one point grabbed your attention first?

[gimmethesimplelife]

For me it would be the concept of not basing my identity on what I do for money. That was an instant kaboom! for me, meaning that I was interested in knowing more. What grabbed your attention first? Rob

[Gardnr]

Mindful decision-making with each purchase.

[iris lilies]

Each thing I buy represents segments of my life energy. A stash of cash represents freedom.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Each thing I buy represents segments of my life energy. A stash of cash represents freedom.This one resonated (and still does) very strongly for me too, IL. Rob

[bae]

Realizing that I could invest the cost of the shiny-item-of-the-day instead, and have a perpetual income stream.

Is that $5 latte really worth 25 cents a year, *forever*? Nope.

[Teacher Terry]

Yes IL, G and Bae the same with me.

[SteveinMN]

Each thing I buy represents segments of my life energy. A stash of cash represents freedom.
This one for me, too. And lately DW (who has not read the book) was introduced to this concept and has bought into it. :)

[JaneV2.0]

"Making a dying."

[gimmethesimplelife]

"Making a dying."This one, too, very much so. These three words resonate very deeply with me, also. Rob

[Selah]

My real hourly wage...what an eye-opener! Linking that to cash = life energy has been a complete game-changer for me. Truly, YMOYL is one of the most life-changing books I've ever read.

[oldhat]

I first came across YMOYL in the late 90s. It was a bleak period for me. I'd moved halfway across the country for a job which didn't work out (through no fault of mine). My prospects of finding employment in my field of choice, for which I'd spent years training in grad school, were grim. I was about the start a job for which I was overqualified in a place where I knew no one.

In short, I felt my life had completely spun out of control. I think that was the main source of the book's appeal--that there was something I could do to make myself feel like I had control over some aspect of my life, at least.

[happystuff]

I believe that is the book that taught me the only way to truly save money was to not spend it. (one is still forking over money to purchase a "sale" item.)

[ToomuchStuff]

I believe that is the book that taught me the only way to truly save money was to not spend it. (one is still forking over money to purchase a "sale" item.)

I wonder how many get this and the higher costs associated with CC, when we have a thread about cash back/rewards cards.:doh:

[dado potato]

I get Chapter 6: The American Dream - On a Shoestring. "Frugality is enjoying the virtue of getting good value for every minute of your life energy and from everything you have the use of."


Every minute, everything!

[Teacher Terry]

We only use our CC for big purchases so if something goes wrong we have recourse and then pay it in full.

[Gardnr]

I wonder how many get this and the higher costs associated with CC, when we have a thread about cash back/rewards cards.:doh:

I do not understand this sentence?

And for me, what's the different cost if I pay cash or use my CC? i have no additional cost with it as I pay it off EVERY month without fail.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I suppose there are a few thing with credit cards:

- if the card has a yearly fee. I've never owned a credit card with a fee
- cash/points back etc. cards might encourage unnecessary spending as it's a bit of a psychological gimmick. I stay away from stuff like that for this reason. But I'm paranoid.
- it's easier psychologically to spend with credit. Probably, but this has to be weighed against ease of getting money back on a risky purchases and greater selection online
- you can spend money you don't have with credit even if you pay it off next month, you just count on the next paycheck or whatever to cover it, frankly if you have an emergency fund this is safe enough, but also might encourage more spending

[happystuff]

I use my cc for the cash back, BUT... I have no fee, it's is paid in full every month and it is used for things like gas, groceries, dr. bills, etc. - things that I would normally purchase, not necessarily extras.

[Gardnr]

I suppose there are a few thing with credit cards:

- if the card has a yearly fee. I've never owned a credit card with a fee
- cash/points back etc. cards might encourage unnecessary spending as it's a bit of a psychological gimmick. I stay away from stuff like that for this reason. But I'm paranoid.
- it's easier psychologically to spend with credit. Probably, but this has to be weighed against ease of getting money back on a risky purchases and greater selection online
- you can spend money you don't have with credit even if you pay it off next month, you just count on the next paycheck or whatever to cover it, frankly if you have an emergency fund this is safe enough, but also might encourage more spending


These temptations you list? We don't suffer from those. We live on 35% of our income. Learning mindfulness in the money journey ala YMOYL is key to learning to have a great relationship with money. It doesn't control us. We control it.

[Tenngal]

how to identify "wants vs needs" and being happy with spending less.

[ToomuchStuff]

I do not understand this sentence?

And for me, what's the different cost if I pay cash or use my CC? i have no additional cost with it as I pay it off EVERY month without fail.

Learn about the fees that a store pays, including the percentages, the machine/software cost, the phone line cost, the additional costs associated with CC fraud, etc. that gets passed onto the consumer in the forms of higher pricing, etc. Do you ever use cash and ask for cash discounts?
Also the things listed in another post here (CC companies use as a tool that spending with plastic consumers buy additionally more then they would with cash).

If your buying more because of plastic (no matter if you pay it off every month), then that money back is really just money that you may not have spent in the first place. (free loan?)

[Gardnr]

Learn about the fees that a store pays, including the percentages, the machine/software cost, the phone line cost, the additional costs associated with CC fraud, etc. that gets passed onto the consumer in the forms of higher pricing, etc. Do you ever use cash and ask for cash discounts?
Also the things listed in another post here (CC companies use as a tool that spending with plastic consumers buy additionally more then they would with cash).

If your buying more because of plastic (no matter if you pay it off every month), then that money back is really just money that you may not have spent in the first place. (free loan?)

I well know all those fees. They won't go away if I use cash. So yes, I will take advantage of all rewards available as well as all the purchase protections it offers.

I don't buy more because I use plastic. We have excellent control of spending mindfully.

You are quite unlikely to believe me and I'm not going to argue about it. I left this group years ago for the ranting at me how I had no idea what I was doing and that I most certainly WAS spending more because I use a CC.

[Teacher Terry]

Many people use mostly use CC’s and don’t spend more money. We use CC’s for big purchases, debit cards for small and some cash. People should do whatever works best for them. There is no one right way.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Well I think such influences would be subconscious, and I don't think I'm smarter than my subconscious. No doubt the experiments have been done as psyche experiments and maybe as experimental economics. I'm going to talk myself into spending less on credit cards soon - probably, it's a fairly small part of my spending.

[Teacher Terry]

G lives on 35% of their income so they know what they are doing whether you choose to believe it or not doesn’t matter.

[Gardenarian]

I try to shop locally and use cash when I do. I asked if I could get a discount on my electric bike if I paid cash, and they gave me $100 off. Gas here is always cheaper if you pay cash. Most people at the Farmer's market will take credit, but I use cash - it helps them a bit, and it keeps me from buying $18 jars of jam. No question, it's harder for me to buy luxuries with cash than credit.

Been a long time since I read YMOYL. I think what stuck with me was right there in the title.

[Gardnr]

There is no discount here for gas if paid by cash. Other than immediate consumables (food, gas, utilities, you know-the usual daily living stuff) I really don't spend money because I need nothing and have no want list.

Oh, we're going on an out-of-state vacation later this month......so I guess that's a want. We'll pay everything by CC and pay it off when the bill comes. Just can't seem to find a way to buy a plane ticket online with cash ya know? Or book a VRBO with cash ya know? Or book a rental car with cash-ya know?

I paid cash for my Mercedes 3 years ago. Does it help you to think I understand my money between saving for that AND living on 35% of my income?

I won't argue the point. It's obvious some of you know me better than I know myself and that I have no idea what i'm doing. I'm done here-not going down this rabbit hole again.

[Tammy]

I’m silently agreeing with you Gardnr.

[catherine]

I think there are people like Gardnr (many on this forum, I'm sure) and then there are people who are like the many people who seek help from the Dave Ramsey school of thought that all debt is evil and that all credit cards should be cut up.

I think both Gardnr and TooMuchStuff are right. Gardnr is obviously responsible and mindful and using credit cards in such as way that the CARDS are the servant, not the master of the spending.

But TooMuchStuff has a point. For people not as mindful, disciplined and frugal, credit cards can be a huge trap. I do believe that MANY (I would even say MOST) people spend more with CCs than they would if they were cash-only. I know that credit card companies make a fortune in interest and fees (their raison d'être) and SOMEONE is paying them for these "free" micro-loans.

DR counsels people who fall prey to the CC traps to use only debit or cash (his own website will not accept CC for purchases), and to not give a fig about credit scores, and to train yourself to build up savings to make reliance on CCs a non-issue.

Some people can do a scratch-off now and then and some people gamble life savings. Some people can have a drink and others can't stop at just one. Some people can use credit cards in such a way that if everyone were like them, credit card companies would go out of business, and others enable credit card companies to thrive. You have to know yourself.

[iris lilies]

I am like Gardnr, I buy everything using credit cards. I never pay interest. I dont think credit cards are evil, but I know that interest is The Enemy. I have never paid a dime of interest in the 30 years we’ve been married.


My dentist gives us a 10% discount if you pay cash or by check, so we do that. Our dental bills are quite low usually around $350 annually.

[Tammy]

Fundamentalists of all types spread an exaggerated message that has little nuance. Dave Ramsey is one of them. So is YMORL. There is some truth to be found - but little nuance.

I learn from them but I think for myself.

[Teacher Terry]

If we used just CC’s we would spend too much money. Especially DH. I think you just need to know yourself.

[Alan]

We've gone to an all plastic lifestyle over time. I use a debit card for small local purchases and groceries and use a credit card for all other purchases. I haven't carried cash in years other than the $100 bill which has been stashed in my wallet for the past 3 years or so, just in case of a natural disaster of some sort which may disrupt electronic transactions. We also keep a small stash of $20 bills in the kitchen for those times a neighborhood child shows up at the door selling cookies.

I don't believe for a moment that we spend more just because we're using credit cards. We also don't pay interest on those transactions.

Years ago I was a master at using a several day float on my checking account as the checks were processed. Now I unconsciously use a 30 day float by using the credit cards and paying off the balance each month. The longer money stays in my account, the more control I feel I have over the process.

[Gardenarian]

Hey Gardner, didn't mean to dis you or credit cards at all! I use credit cards all the time, but there are times that paying cash makes sense and also reins me in. If I'm buying a phone charger on Amazon or sheets at Target, I use CC for sure, and our 1% cash back each year is substantial.

Each has its benefits.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I don't live on 35% of my income (ha when I have an income). There is a certain point when one's frugality is more than good enough and there is no point in optimizing it anymore.

Like the analogy, even though it's not a great one, might be to diet. Unconscious factors like size of one's plate may influence how much one eats, so maybe it's better to eat off smaller plates (I actually suspect the research for credit card use and spending is stronger than that for plate size*) but if one counts calories in every meal plate size isn't going to make any difference anyway. And there's a certain point where one's weight is fine already (or maybe with weight too low already) and one doesn't need to worry about big or small plates. So even if it's actually true that one might generally eat less if they use small plates... it's nothing personal.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/ulterior-motives/201001/spending-and-credit-cards
https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/credit-cards/credit-cards-make-you-spend-more/

*ok yes I really do use smaller plates

[rosarugosa]

Fundamentalists of all types spread an exaggerated message that has little nuance. Dave Ramsey is one of them. So is YMORL. There is some truth to be found - but little nuance.

I learn from them but I think for myself.

Well said, Tammy.

[shadowmoss]

The biggest impact for me was attempting to do an inventory. If anyone wants to realize their true abundance, try counting your possessions. Ok, those, 100 items only folks, that is kinda of where this started. I, personally, have never made it through just the bathroom, which I started when I was reading the book back in the 90's, even though it is/was the smallest room in the house.

[rerun]

Voluntary simplicity...whenever hubby and I make big decisions I think about if it makes our lives more simple or more complex. After readin YMOYL I wanted to search out more about the idea of voluntary simplicity.

[Gardnr]

Voluntary simplicity...whenever hubby and I make big decisions I think about if it makes our lives more simple or more complex. After readin YMOYL I wanted to search out more about the idea of voluntary simplicity.

Janet Luhr: The Simple Living Guide...........it's a wonderful book of examples. I reread it every year for 10-12 years. it's ragged looking. This year I gifted it to a young woman at work who is attempting the same journey.

[Tybee]

Janet Luhr: The Simple Living Guide...........it's a wonderful book of examples. I reread it every year for 10-12 years. it's ragged looking. This year I gifted it to a young woman at work who is attempting the same journey.

I loved that book so much Gardnr. I need to reread it. Twenty years later, I still think about the stories in the book, the people like the woman who said if folks spend 25 percent of their income on housing, then I need to get four rental houses to replace my income, or the people who moved into their basement and rented out the upstairs of the house and paid for their housing that way.

Need to reread that book, it's here somewhere.

[happystuff]

If I'm remembering correctly, it was voluntary simplicity that got me to read YMOYL. I'm still striving for more simplicity - both out of necessity and voluntarily. lol

[jp1]

For me, like several others here, it was the idea that I'm using life energy in exchange for being able to purchase things. THe first thing I cut from my expenditures of life energy once I figured that out was lunch out when I was at the office. I didn't enjoy it and it was mostly just laziness/lack of planning, that necessitated it. Now on those rare times that I do have to buy my lunch I hate spending the money. From a life energy standpoint it's only about 12 minutes of time, compared to 25 minutes of my time when I made that change, but I still prefer to bring lunch and save that life energy towards a future where I don't have to work.