Hair dos.

[Ultralight]

So a woman at my work (which is 85% women) got her hair did. As usual when any woman at work gets her hair did, she gives me and the other guys a look, as though she expects a compliment. It is subtle. But that is the look.

I would have liked to have said: "You new hairstyle looks really nice!"

But I said nothing. The other guys said nothing.

Then another woman walked up and said: "You look so beautiful! Your hair looks amazing! But of course, no one else noticed, did they?"

And this woman looked over at me and two other guys disapprovingly.

Then the woman with the hair do said: "Well, they're just dudes. They don't notice."

One guy actually said: "I did notice, but I held back and did not say anything. But it does look nice."

Here is the thing: I feel like commenting on a woman's hair, body, clothes, etc. at work is viewed as sexual harassment. So I literally say nothing. It is safer.

Anyone else go through this?

[Alan]

I've treated every woman I've ever worked with as if she were my cousin or niece, depending upon age, and never worried about potential harassment.

[Ultralight]

I've treated every woman I've ever worked with as if she were my cousin or niece, depending upon age, and never worried about potential harassment.

Vague.

[bae]

Then another woman walked up and said: "You look so beautiful! Your hair looks amazing! But of course, no one else noticed, did they?"

And this woman looked over at me and two other guys disapprovingly.

Then the woman with the hair do said: "Well, they're just dudes. They don't notice."


I would have reported them to HR for creating a hostile work environment and their sexist behaviour.

[Ultralight]

I would have reported them to HR for creating a hostile work environment and their sexist behaviour.

Uh, dude, I don't think that is how it works.

[bae]

Uh, dude, I don't think that is how it works.

That's how they trained us in our sexual harassment/diversity awareness for the workplace classes though. In my last company the "they are just dudes" comment would have led to some discussions....

[Ultralight]

That's how they trained us in our sexual harassment/diversity awareness for the workplace classes though. In my last company the "they are just dudes" comment would have led to some discussions....

Was your last company in some bizarro world? How is "they are just dudes" sexist?

[bae]

Was your last company in some bizarro world? How is "they are just dudes" sexist?

They'd cover that in the first several days of your training.

It wasn't "bizarro world", it was a typical professional science/engineering environment in Silicon Valley, before the invasion of the dude-bros.

I believe I would be having some conversations with my current chain-of-command if I engaged in the same sort of talk as well.

[Ultralight]

They'd cover that in the first several days of your training.

It wasn't "bizarro world", it was a typical professional science/engineering environment in Silicon Valley, before the invasion of the dude-bros.

I believe I would be having some conversations with my current chain-of-command if I engaged in the same sort of talk as well.

California! A bizarro world, indeed!

[Teacher Terry]

Thankfully, I never worked in a uptight place. Men would have been free to compliment women. We actually had a lot of fun at work but also worked with the same people for years so everyone knew each other well.

[Ultralight]

Thankfully, I never worked in a uptight place. Men would have been free to compliment women. We actually had a lot of fun at work but also worked with the same people for years so everyone knew each other well.

We're not an uptight crowd. But the risk of something a guy says being misconstrued is real and the risk is really high.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I think it's ok for a woman to compliment another woman's hair (expected even some places) but less so for a guy. So I agree with that take.

I also agree that technically the "they're just guys" could be interpreted as hostile work environment but I think it's the type of comment that would have to happen more than once for it to really be taken that way (usually hostile work environment stuff either has to be severe or pervasive). I do the required trainings on this stuff, year after year for various jobs, doesn't everyone.

[Teacher Terry]

What I have found too is the bigger the department the more risk there is or if new people were constantly coming in. Anyways I have been retired 6 years and all my friends at work are too so no clue how the atmosphere is now but we were lucky that we didn’t have those worries.

[Gardnr]

I don't think a simple compliment is harassment.

[bae]

I don't think a simple compliment is harassment.

The issue, as I understand it, is if the recipient believes it is.

I know of folks who smiled and put up with workplace "we're all just friends" comments for years, while they were hurting inside.

[Chicken lady]

Set up week a guy I teach with showed up with a new beard. He was also wearing shorts and a t-shirt (relevant later) he always teaches in slacks and a button down shirt.

So we arrive at the door together and I say cheerfully “new look.” And he says “yeah, it’s my summer look.” So I kind of thought he was planning to shave for the school year (also thought it was odd, because isn’t a beard hot?)

but he did did not shave. Apparently he thought I was commenting on his shorts?

if someone is a friend and they look nice, I will tell them. If they are not, I do not comment on their appearance (unless their shoe is untied or something like that “do you know your shoe is untied?”)

[Alan]

I don't think a simple compliment is harassment.
I guess everyone deserves the right to feel victimized these days.

[Teacher Terry]

I agree Alan.

[Gardnr]

The issue, as I understand it, is if the recipient believes it is.

I know of folks who smiled and put up with workplace "we're all just friends" comments for years, while they were hurting inside.

True. Harassment is a perception not an intent. I stand corrected.

[Gardenarian]

Well, UL, they are putting you in a very difficult place. I think a brief "Nice haircut" would be acceptable to all. Maybe.

I wouldn't expect anyone to comment on my hair unless it was a drastic change.

[Tenngal]

So a woman at my work (which is 85% women) got her hair did. As usual when any woman at work gets her hair did, she gives me and the other guys a look, as though she expects a compliment. It is subtle. But that is the look.

I would have liked to have said: "You new hairstyle looks really nice!"

But I said nothing. The other guys said nothing.

Then another woman walked up and said: "You look so beautiful! Your hair looks amazing! But of course, no one else noticed, did they?"

And this woman looked over at me and two other guys disapprovingly.

Then the woman with the hair do said: "Well, they're just dudes. They don't notice."

One guy actually said: "I did notice, but I held back and did not say anything. But it does look nice."

Here is the thing: I feel like commenting on a woman's hair, body, clothes, etc. at work is viewed as sexual harassment. So I literally say nothing. It is safer.

Anyone else go through this?


Yes, I agree saying nothing is safer.
I never feel the need for attention so I am not looking for compliments when I get a new haircut.
And yet I do know some women who are like this.........need attention in the workplace.
They get upset if nothing is said or a birthday is forgotten.............

[Zoe Girl]

This is reminding me of my former staff, the one who was so challenging (saying that nicely). She actually walked up to me during the busiest time of the afternoon and told me she was quitting. I said fine but she had to wait until 5:30. At 5:30 I sat her down to see what was wrong, apparently she had a major hair thing, cut and dyed, and I didn't notice. She was really, really hurt. I was trying very hard to understand but I simply didn't (yes I am female). So I finally asked her if she would expect that from a male supervisor, and then suggested she imagine that I was a male supervisor as needed. She perked right up! Plus she wasn't so bothered by a lot of things. Of course she expected that I would fall all over myself when she said she was quitting too, and I didn't.

Ahh gender norms,

[Zoe Girl]

I know of folks who smiled and put up with workplace "we're all just friends" comments for years, while they were hurting inside.

That does get tricky, I have accepted hearing a lot of crap over the years. I started working in the 80's. 'nice haircut' was never my problem, more trying to discuss my sex life or sharing about theirs. Some people really have no common sense. The one time I tried to tell someone (it was blowing in my ear actually) it went nowhere. So sometimes I just changed jobs.

I know that when I worked at a retail store an upper manager decided that every guest should be made eye contact with and smiled at. Seems simple enough, I did bring up that that should be balanced with women trusting our gut feeling. Simply being friendly as a cashier encouraged some creepers. Guys would come back and hang around to go to the same cashier. Rarely did the male management take it seriously, but female managers would redirect the customer or send the cashier on break or basically take care of it. I really don't have a clue sometimes how to explain the difference at times,

[catherine]

This is one of those "why can't common sense prevail" situations.

If someone gets a slightly different cut and maybe a slightly different color, why bother saying anything, unless you are a good friend, same gender, and you notice.

But if a guy I knew suddenly came into the workplace with a henna mullet or a shaved head, it would be weird NOT to acknowledge the drastic change.

And you don't have to make a big change--Chicken Lady's simple question, "New look?" should suffice.

I'm personally very bad at detecting physical differences in people. My own DH goes nuts if I don't notice he got a haircut, which happens rather frequently. And then there's the time recently when my son, who wore a full beard for months, shaved it off and I didn't even notice! Even I can't figure that one out.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I think some ass-kissing like "nice hairdo" may have appeased the bully at the last job some (and yea a woman complimenting another woman is safe). Enough? Oh who knows. Maybe not at all, but at any rate they did not lack for narcissism, and the need for attention/narcissistic supplies. And just loved it when people came over to their desk to complement their hair etc., loved to be fawned over. And it was not working the personal angle that was costly to me. So at times perhaps complements may be necessary.

[Miss Cellaneous]

I would stick to complimenting all co-workers on their work, whenever they accomplish something, or even just getting something done in a short amount of time.

Then, when put on the spot as in the OP, Ultralight could say, "Hey, I keep my compliments for jobs well done, not appearances!" Which should remind everyone why they are there, in the office, working.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I would try to read the environment, abstract values like getting things done might not be what is most valued in that particular environment (if we are lucky it is, but if not appeals to it will not help).

[Miss Cellaneous]

Ask A Manager had a letter about this issue not long ago: https://www.askamanager.org/2018/08/my-coworker-is-hiding-a-dui-from-our-employer-no-one-at-work-noticed-my-haircut-and-more.html

It's worth reading the comments for a variety of opinions on the subject.

[jp1]

Personally I never say anything. Not because I'm worried that it will be considered offensive, but because I don't trust myself to have noticed in a timely manner. I mean, really, it would be totally awkward if I commented and the response (or at least the reality even if they were kind enough to not actually say it) was "thanks. I had it done three weeks ago and you're just noticing..."

[jp1]

And literally two minutes after I closed simple living this post showed up in my facebook feed:

At work.
Him: This 'sexual harassment' shit is ****ing ridiculous. What, now I can't even tell a woman she is pretty without getting in shit for it?
Me: Well, we've worked together for 2 years and you've never told me I'm pretty.
Him: That's different because you're a dude, like me.
Me: Gotta tell ya, that's a little disappointing because I think you're pretty.
Him: Cut that shit, bro. You're creeping me out.
Me: Soooo me telling you that you're pretty when you neither asked for nor welcomed comments about your appearance is making you feel uncomfortable. Interesting.

[bae]

Good show JP1!