Intermittent fasting

[Ultralight]

In one of my last ditch attempts to un-fat ass myself I am giving this 5:2 intermittent fasting a try. Today will be my first day of fasting.

Here is how it works. For five days of the week you eat how you normally would, more or less. For me this would mean eating oatmeal with nuts and berries in the morning, lunch would be some type of raw veggies (salad, carrots, celery, what-have-you) along with a sandwich or bowl of rice and beans, things like that.

Dinner would be nachos or a pulled chicken sandwich or turkey burgers or pizza. And twice a week I would go to a restaurant.

On the fasting days (I am going for Tues and Thur) I eat one small meal of less than 500 calz. So this will likely be a small bowl of oatmeal with a small amount of nuts and some berries at lunchtime. My plan is to skip breakfast and by the time I get "hangry" I will eat my oatmeal around noonish. Then by the time I get hangry again I will be off work and home. This will minimize my hangriness at work, when I am around lots of people.

So wish me luck.

[Lainey]

Good luck, Ultralight! It seems this method has been successful for a lot of people, but I also agree it's trickier when you're working full-time and need to be functional and alert all day as usual.
Are you also restricting your eating hours on your regular eating days? I've seen some who say they eat within a 10 hour window, like breakfast/early lunch at 10 am and then a dinner at 5 or 6 pm. It makes sense and is probably easier on our digestive system - pretty sure humans were not meant to be eating 17 hours/day.

[SteveinMN]

Good luck! I know people who've tried this, with mixed results. But you never know which way of eating will work for you, so nothing ventured/nothing gained. I hope it works for you.

[Tenngal]

Good luck let us know how it goes. I have started a 16/8 fast which means I have lunch and dinner.
No food after 6pm until lunch the next day. Seems to have done away with being hungry in the morning.
I just have black coffee.

[JaneV2.0]

Like keto and LCHF, fasting strictly limits insulin output (thus hunger), which is a Good Thing. That whole grazing, "eat six small meals a day" thing has been a disaster for most people.

After you become fat-adapted, you shouldn't have any problems functioning on an empty stomach, as you'll be running on fat stores--a lot of people make a practice of working out fasted. And then there's the miracle that is autophagy, subject of a recent Nobel Prize.

As a further benefit, fasting can save you a lot of money on groceries!

I like my eating window in the morning; I'm at about 18/6.

[Teacher Terry]

I never eat past 6pm. If possible we try to have our biggest meal at lunch so have all day to burn it off. We eat light at night unless going out.

[Ultralight]

...eating 17 hours/day.

Yum! I wish!

[Ultralight]

Good luck let us know how it goes. I have started a 16/8 fast which means I have lunch and dinner.
No food after 6pm until lunch the next day. Seems to have done away with being hungry in the morning.
I just have black coffee.

Interesting. How long have you been doing this?

[Ultralight]

So from 10am until noon I was going a bit crazy with hunger!

For lunch I had:
1 serving oatmeal (150 calz)
Half serving of PB (90 calz)
1 serving honey (60 cals)
2 small-medium apples (200 calz)

That was my 500 calorie meal.

I felt pretty full. I am a little hungry now, but it is not too bothersome. What is bothersome is that my habit of eating dinner is thrown way off, and the pleasure of dinner is not there for me.

[Ultralight]

I will tell you this: Those apples tasted delicious. That oatmeal tasted gourmet. Hungry is the best spice.

[Ultralight]

Hunger is coming back now, not in full force yet, but it is returning. I keep thinking about hard boiled eggs, of all things! lol

[SteveinMN]

Hunger is coming back now, not in full force yet, but it is returning. I keep thinking about hard boiled eggs, of all things! lol
Well, there's protein and fat in those, unlike the breakfast you had. Blood-glucose levels fluctuating in a wide range will make you feel hungry even if your body does not need to eat. Blood-glucose levels depend on carbohydate intake. Oatmeal, apples, honey -- nothing but carbs (and a little fiber). Even some peanut butters have a surprising amount of sugar in them.

Everyone is different, of course, but you might want to try spending your 500 calories on hardboiled eggs, tuna, chicken, and salads or steamed (non-starchy) vegetables. Filling and they won't swing your blood glucose so wide.

[Ultralight]

Well, there's protein and fat in those, unlike the breakfast you had. Blood-glucose levels fluctuating in a wide range will make you feel hungry even if your body does not need to eat. Blood-glucose levels depend on carbohydate intake. Oatmeal, apples, honey -- nothing but carbs (and a little fiber). Even some peanut butters have a surprising amount of sugar in them.

Everyone is different, of course, but you might want to try spending your 500 calories on hardboiled eggs, tuna, chicken, and salads or steamed (non-starchy) vegetables. Filling and they won't swing your blood glucose so wide.

It was worse before I ate lunch. It is not as bad now.

But yes, hard boiled eggs will be eaten, one, maybe two, on my next fasting day. I definitely yearn for one. I feel like I could eat 4 or 5 right now. haha

[Teacher Terry]

Oatmeal fills me up for a long time. Probably different for everyone.

[Ultralight]

Welp, I made it through the first day of fasting. 10am-12pm was the toughest. Then there was another hour or so in the evening that was challenging. Also for about a half hour later at night I had a surge of ravenous urges. Other than that, I felt fine. Hunger did not totally nag at me.

[Tammy]

https://www.amazon.com/Body-Truth-Science-History-Obsession/dp/B00XIY3CGY

I recently read that book.
Dieting doesn’t work.
Denying ourselves backfires.
95% of people who lose weight gain it back plus more.
The worst thing we can do is diet.
It resets our metabolism lower.

[Tammy]

Additionally, on a mental and emotional level, thinking about not eating makes us want to eat more.

Best thing we can do is stop focusing on food, exercise, calories, weight.

This was a great book.

[Ultralight]

I am trying to work out before I break my fast.

[Ultralight]

Best thing we can do is stop focusing on food, exercise, calories, weight.



How does one lose weight by this method?

[SteveinMN]

How does one lose weight by this method?
The idea is that eating and exertion are so well-integrated into your life that you no longer need to schedule or even think about them. There is a school that believes if you really eat only when you're hungry (not because "it's lunchtime" or you're bored or stressed or everyone around you is eating) and eat real food (most of the time), stopping when you feel full, you don't need to worry about food and calories. If your lifestyle supports a decent amount of movement (maybe you can walk everywhere you go or your job is very physical or you participate [almost-]daily in some form of better-than-moderate exercise, then moving is so automatic that you don't need to match effort with caloric intake, etc.).

You also don't lose lots of weight with this method, but you don't really need to; you should be near your target as it is. But it's not easy for most people to do all that; hence the popularity of all kinds of diet plans and exercise programs.

[Tenngal]

Interesting. How long have you been doing this?


5 or 6 weeks and it is going fine. No breakfast and no eating after 6 pm for me.

[Tenngal]

I have to stick to high protein otherwise I am so hungry. Hard boiled eggs are great. They always fill me up for hours and stabilize my blood sugar.

[Tammy]

You need to read the book. It’s too much to try to summarize.

[Tammy]

Nice summary Steve. And there’s a lot more in the book. Data based stuff on why BMI diets resolutions weight loss exercise ..... don’t work.

the focus on weight loss is what has totally messed us all up.

[JaneV2.0]

What I like about both LCHF and IF is that they keep insulin and cravings low. I'm in no way a fan of traditional diets; I can only white-knuckle it so long.

[Teacher Terry]

6 days a week I eat 1600 calories a day and the 7th day I eat whatever I want. I also get at least 10k/steps a day. I lost 40lbs doing this and have kept it off for 3 years.

[Ultralight]

Best thing we can do is stop focusing on food, exercise, calories, weight.



So you don't spend much time thinking about food, exercise, calories, or your weight and then you become slim and trim? Sign me up!

[Ultralight]

the focus on weight loss is what has totally messed us all up.

But what if you want to actually lose weight?

[catherine]

Here is a great article I saw posted by a friend of mine (a former anorexic) on Facebook and I was going to download it I liked it so much, but then I didn't, and I miraculously was able to pull the title out of my you-know-what right now. I think it does a great job of encapsulating the complexity of obesity and its complicity of our culture. (Not that you are obese, UL--I wouldn't know. But I think that it's true what Tammy says--we are chasing the wrong dog when it comes to a focus on micromanaging our diets.

https://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/everything-you-know-about-obesity-is-wrong/

It's a really long article but worth the read. Here are a couple of excerpts


For more than a decade now, researchers have found that the quality of our food affects disease risk independently of its effect on weight. Fructose, for example, appears to damage insulin sensitivity and liver function more than other sweeteners with the same number of calories. People who eat nuts four times a week have 12 percent lower diabetes incidence and a 13 percent lower mortality rate regardless of their weight. All of our biological systems for regulating energy, hunger and satiety get thrown off by eating foods that are high in sugar, low in fiber and injected with additives. And which now, shockingly, make up 60 percent of the calories we eat.

Draining this poison from our trillion-dollar food system is not going to happen quickly or easily. Every link in the chain, from factory farms to school lunches, is dominated by a Mars or a Monsanto or a McDonald’s, each working tirelessly to lower its costs and raise its profits. But that’s still no reason to despair. There’s a lot we can do right now to improve fat people’s lives—to shift our focus for the first time from weight to health and from shame to support.

[Tammy]

Read the book

[Ultralight]

I see why fasting is a part of so many religions. I cannot deny a certain "spiritual" feeling on my fasting day. I want to try to again to explore this interesting feeling. It was a "subjective, internal experience" as Sam Harris might call it. Once the intense cravings faded the fasting felt like a meditation.

And when the cravings were bad I just told myself: "You can eat _____ tomorrow. Tomorrow is not far away."

[ApatheticNoMore]

yes a kind of calm sometimes, a calm feeling. I just did a 24 hour fast, but I don't do it for weight loss (I don't fast often enough for that for one thing), I consider it health maintenance I guess (in the same way as talking a walk or eating healthy food).

There is a book on everything one would ever want to know, and never wanted to know, about fasting including much about fasting catholic saints called "Fasting An Exceptional Human Experience" that frames it this way ("When the term exceptional human experience (EHE) was coined in 1990, it marked the beginning of an effort to discover what could be learned if all types of psychic, mystical, encounter, death-related, peak, and other anomalous experiences were viewed as members of a single class."). It's not about fasting for weight loss though.

Honestly for me it is just relaxing, although once ecstatic when I was in a natural area as well. And also I feel better physically afterward. It's why I don't believe in hangry, hunger doesn't make me angry, I don't consider that part of the experience of hunger. Although if I have a very hard work day I won't fast, because that is demanding in it's own right. It's not all wonderful though, I've gotten kind of depressive and broody occasionally fasting (it's really not the time to give play to one's darkest thoughts - wait until you eat for those at least, and all will go better in my experience).

[pony mom]

I've been doing the 8/16 version of intermittent fasting for a few weeks now. Eating from 10:30 am until 6:30 pm was OK for a while but I get too hungry while at work. Now it's 9:30-7:30 which works out much better. This is because at 9:30 I'll eat a small snack (usually cashews and cheese) so when I eat lunch an hour later, I'm not starving and engorging myself; I'm actually a bit satiated by then.

Now if I can only stay away from the sweets and ice cream at work. I started at 118 lbs and went down to 112 (I've always been a slender person so don't judge me) but lack of willpower with sweets have brought me back up to 115. Those few pounds less made me feel much more comfortable, I fit into my summer clothes, and hopefully I'll get there again soon.

This method of fasting isn't too difficult if you don't mind being hungry. I wake up hungry, go to bed hungry, and complain "I'm hungry" all morning at work.

[Ultralight]

Today is my second day of fasting. I am working out this morning. So today might be tougher than last Thursday...

[Ultralight]

Again, today around 10am I started getting hungry! But I waited until noon to eat my oatmeal and my apples.

That was a strong wave of hunger.


A smaller wave came around 4pm. I wanted hard boiled eggs again. That urge faded.

Now another wave of hunger is on me. I want stewed or roasted veggies, like root veggies.

Fasting makes me crave odd foods. haha

[iris lilies]

Again, today around 10am I started getting hungry! But I waited until noon to eat my oatmeal and my apples.

That was a strong wave of hunger.


A smaller wave came around 4pm. I wanted hard boiled eggs again. That urge faded.

Now another wave of hunger is on me. I want stewed or roasted veggies, like root veggies.

Fasting makes me crave odd foods. haha


Oooooo, you are craving healthy foods, good.

[Ultralight]

Welp, same as my first day of fasting, I woke up the day after and I don't feel hungry. Strange.

[Ultralight]

It is crazy! I have been prepping food all morning -- my egg. bacon, cheese sandwich for breakfast (at work in around 8:30am), my lunch of oatmeal with fruits and nuts, and my dinner of chicken and veggie stew in the crock pot mini.

No urges of hunger. I even handle the ultimate culinary temptress -- bacon! No hunger urges.

[JaneV2.0]

...
Honestly for me it is just relaxing, although once ecstatic when I was in a natural area as well. And also I feel better physically afterward. It's why I don't believe in hangry, hunger doesn't make me angry, I don't consider that part of the experience of hunger. Although if I have a very hard work day I won't fast, because that is demanding in it's own right. It's not all wonderful though, I've gotten kind of depressive and broody occasionally fasting (it's really not the time to give play to one's darkest thoughts - wait until you eat for those at least, and all will go better in my experience).

I don't think it's actually hunger that produces the anger, it's the blood sugar swings that some of us get from eating the wrong foods/eating too often. I used to be subject to occasional bouts of low blood sugar (reactive hypoglycemia) that could render me near-speechless. I can fast for a day or two without problems.

[luna92]

Good luck Ultralight and I hope it works well for you.

[Ultralight]

Good luck Ultralight and I hope it works well for you.

Thanks. Fasting again today. I weighed in at my biometric screening yesterday. 199 elbeez! Holy fat guy!

BP is high too. Apparently 5:2 will bring down the BP and the weight, if the research holds true.

This is my second week of 5:2 fasting. I ought to see results by the end of week five.

[JaneV2.0]

Then there's this: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/09/health/diabetes-fasting-study/index.html?no-st=1539182227

The medical community seems amazed at evidence that type 2 diabetes is readily reversible/remissible with the proper diet. I guess they haven't been paying attention. Or maybe they'd rather just sell drugs.

[Teacher Terry]

In my family everyone on my mom’s side of the family gets HBP fairly young despite being fit, exercising and eating well. So it really depends. My husband in 1 year was not even pre-diabetic and had diabetes a year later despite walking 20k/steps a day and losing 40 lbs. The doctor thought the test was wrong and had him wait 2 months and repeat it before putting him on medication. Ironically I was not overweight until put on medications for HBP and too fast erratic heartbeat which slowed down my metabolism and also make me tired. The alternative however was to probably have a stroke. I have no doubt that much illness is lifestyle related but not for everyone.

[catherine]

Then there's this: https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/09/health/diabetes-fasting-study/index.html?no-st=1539182227

The medical community seems amazed at evidence that type 2 diabetes is readily reversible/remissible with the proper diet. I guess they haven't been paying attention. Or maybe they'd rather just sell drugs.

Jane, you and I can argue about the proper diet, but I am 100% in agreement. When DH cut out carbs to get into his kilt for DS/DIL wedding, he went from full-blown diabetic to pre-diabetic--in only 3 months!!! And the only thing he changed was diet.

[JaneV2.0]

Jane, you and I can argue about the proper diet, but I am 100% in agreement. When DH cut out carbs to get into his kilt for DS/DIL wedding, he went from full-blown diabetic to pre-diabetic--in only 3 months!!! And the only thing he changed was diet.

I'm convinced there is no one diet for everyone, but most type 2 diabetics are hypersensitive to carbohydrates, and most likely to the "many small meals" nostrum put forth by nutritionists, as well.

[SteveinMN]

The medical community seems amazed at evidence that type 2 diabetes is readily reversible/remissible with the proper diet. I guess they haven't been paying attention. Or maybe they'd rather just sell drugs.
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner! There's just too much money in how diabetes is treated currently. Who wants to stop the gravy train?

Before insulin was common and wonder drugs like Januvia were invented, the standard diabetic diet was very low in carbohydrates. The current diet recommended by the American Diabetes Association is the carbohydrate equivalent of telling people with severe peanut allergies that it's okay to dig into the jar of peanut butter because there's an EpiPen nearby. >8)


I'm convinced there is no one diet for everyone, but most type 2 diabetics are hypersensitive to carbohydrates, and most likely to the "many small meals" nostrum put forth by nutritionists, as well.
Based on the research I've done over the past year to manage my own Type 2 diabetes, the key to managing the severe side effects of diabetes is to keep blood glucose levels low and within a narrow range. "Carb up and shoot up" is a terrible way to handle Type 2 diabetes. So is "many small meals" if they keep putting the eater on a blood-glucose rollercoaster. Hungry? Eat a real lower-carb/low-GI meal. A little peckish? Eat a snack that won't spike your blood glucose (as a 100-calorie packet of anything or something loaded with artificial sweeteners will).

[Ultralight]

This is my third fast day. I am still mostly enjoying the fasting. Today I opted for carrot sticks, celery, two hard boiled eggs, and two small apples for lunch. Probably about 400 calories, so a bit low for my fast day lunch. But still a reasonable meal.

[Teacher Terry]

My husband is also eating low carb and not having a bunch of small meals.

[Ultralight]

Back to fasting today after my man cold. So far so food. I had a couple hard boiled eggs, carrot sticks, an avocado, and a small apple for lunch. Believe it or not it filled me up. I could have eaten a second small apple. But I did not "have room" for it.

[catherine]

So far so food.

Freudian slip? :)

[Ultralight]

Freudian slip? :) LMAO!!!!

[Ultralight]

Fasting again, it hasn't been too bad today.

[Ultralight]

Black beans and rice never tasted so good!

[Ultralight]

Feeling hungrier than I have on previous fasting days...

I am trying to keep busy and not think about it too much.

[Ultralight]

Benny Franklin was so right! Hunger is the best spice.

This oatmeal tastes AMAZEBALLZZZZZZ!

[Ultralight]

The hunger and/or cravings today were stronger and different. I wanted pizza for a while.

Then I wanted creme of rice cereal. At one point I wanted a huge salmon filet -- like the whole filet.

[catherine]

As I was deleting emails, I noticed one from Dr. Fuhrman advertising his Intermittent Fasting program (https://www.drfuhrman.com/library/nutritarian-education-institute/courses/15/at-home-detox-intermittent-fasting?utm_campaign=At-Home%20Detox%3A%20Intermittent%20Fasting&utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&utm_content=66936793&_hsenc=p2ANqtz--odkOC0QhHAMoMDStQqbikvl4dFDmZFu54-8GevDqsKDz18SSRXs0FKdm-hW6yVYDWCi7fL4Y6ZOGy3G8QIzVeiPtgrA&_hsmi=66936793) and I thought of you, UL. It's too late to register, unfortunately, but maybe you can take advantage of some his resources.

[Ultralight]

Today's fast has been hard. I ate about 100 calz less in my "mini meal."

Hopefully I feel good tomorrow morning. I will exercise before I eat.

[Ultralight]

I am craving a god dang pork roast, of all things!

[Lainey]

UL, have you noticed any other differences? Are you able to keep alert at work, or is your stamina okay? Clothes fitting differently?

[Ultralight]

UL, have you noticed any other differences? Are you able to keep alert at work, or is your stamina okay? Clothes fitting differently?

My mental fog clears up during the fasting day and the day after. I am fine to work, exercise, socialize, etc. while fasting. But I do get waves of nagging hunger. They come and go.

I have not lost any weight.

Clothes still fit like usual as I have not lost weight.

[Ultralight]

I broke my fast this morning with a bowl of black bean soup and a cut from a filet of wild salmon.

[Ultralight]

Fasting is a lot harder when I cannot say to myself: "Tomorrow I will go to the Indian buffet."

[iris lilies]

I do not understand your obsession with fasting, although I dont think it is necessarily a bad thing. Then you talk about “fasting” but you eat, what, cereal? Or 400 calories of something. That isnt fasting, that is crash dieting. Maybe the label doesnt really matter, but fasting to lose weight isnt really a smart thing ro do.

Because I sense that you don’t have a good overview of how to eat in a healthy way, I am going to suggest the Weight Watcher’s program. It is basically good instruction and how to eat in a normal, healthy way. It emphasizes quality calories and defined portion control for you. It offers peer support in meetings an online discussions. I do weight watchers off and on, currently I am off but will have to get on again soon.


It is a proprietary system so they charge you a weekly fee, and they have their secret formula for how they assign “points” values to food. Essentially their points system is a shorthand for counting calories.

if you try it, I would try the in person meetings. Most of the participants will be chubby women the age of your mother, somthey will welcome a male perspective. The meetings depend so much in the leader.
I got bored with the last leader and need to find a new one.

[Teacher Terry]

I just count calories.

[Ultralight]

I do not understand your obsession with fasting, although I dont think it is necessarily a bad thing. Then you talk about “fasting” but you eat, what, cereal? Or 400 calories of something. That isnt fasting, that is crash dieting. Maybe the label doesnt really matter, but fasting to lose weight isnt really a smart thing ro do.

Are you familiar with any of the studies on IF? Powerful stuff. Read up on it. Here are a few highlights:
-Fasting puts your body into repair mode, all the way to the cellular level
-Fasting improves insulin sensitivity
-Fasting improves mental acuity
-Fasting works for weight loss

The 5:2 IF plan includes one "mini meal" of about 500 calz in the middle of your "fast day." Is it a pure fast? No, so split hairs if you like.

You claim that fasting to lose weight isn't really a smart thing to do. How do you know this? I am willing to bet that you are totally unfamiliar with the research studies on IF.



Because I sense that you don’t have a good overview of how to eat in a healthy way, I am going to suggest the Weight Watcher’s program. It is basically good instruction and how to eat in a normal, healthy way. It emphasizes quality calories and defined portion control for you. It offers peer support in meetings an online discussions. I do weight watchers off and on, currently I am off but will have to get on again soon.

I actually do know what is healthy and what is not. Raw and steamed veggies are very healthy. Raw, whole fruit is healthy. Legumes and whole grains are pretty darned good. Wild salmon is healthy.

I get it.

An believe me: I know a large pep pizza is bad for you.



It is a proprietary system so they charge you a weekly fee, and they have their secret formula for how they assign “points” values to food. Essentially their points system is a shorthand for counting calories.

How well has WW worked for you?



if you try it, I would try the in person meetings. Most of the participants will be chubby women the age of your mother, somthey will welcome a male perspective. The meetings depend so much in the leader.
I got bored with the last leader and need to find a new one.

I have nothing in particular against chubby women the age of my mother.

[iris lilies]

Weight Watchers works for me when I work thevprogram.

But youre right, I dont know about recent fasting research Other than it affecting mental acuity, usually for the good, but not always.

What about the studies that say starvation mode causes your body to hang onto fat cells or some such thing? Has that old chestnut been tossed out then in weight loss research?

[Ultralight]

Weight Watchers works for me when I work thevprogram.

But youre right, I dont know about recent fasting research Other than it affecting mental acuity, usually for the good, but not always.

What about the studies that say starvation mode causes your body to hang onto fat cells or some such thing? Has that old chestnut been tossed out then in weight loss research?

Counting calories works if you actually count them and only eat the number that your body needs.

IF is different than starving.

But I realize I can't fast on a Thursday and then pound 12 slices of pizza on Friday. haha

[Chicken lady]

I could be way off here, but my first reaction to the WW idea is that WW for UL is likely to be a lot like me trying to use this place as support to deal with my hoarding issues (summary - it went badly and sucked.) I think he is better off in OA. They are very different approaches to food.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Yea fasting has advantages for health over low calorie dieting, for one thing you are actually less likely to develop nutritional deficiencies, it doesn't happen with IF. And of course hunger say two days a week if that's what one did is a lot easier to manage than chronic hunger engendered by daily calorie counting - hunger that never fricken stops, I know I've done that foolishness. Fasting isn't like that, hunger comes and goes when fasting, and then on your non-fasting days is blessedly absent (actually is reduced over what it would be otherwise in my experience, even a day of fasting will probably reduce hunger for the next week, well just my experience).

Whether it works for weight loss is kind of a personal question, depends on if one can keep it up regularly enough (emotionally, psychologically) and if they think it is best to keep it up that way (depends on if they have a lot of physical side effects, if so then maybe that much fasting is not for them).

Fasting is also easier to manage if you use food as a crutch as you don't have to always avoid x (whatever x is - potato chips say, I don't know), well that's true and maybe a dark side as it allows some emotional eating or whatever (potato chips when work is stressful) but it's also for some people more doable though.

[JaneV2.0]

I agree with ApatheticNoMore; intermittent fasting is much easier than dieting/calorie counting/white knuckling it, and the potential benefits are impressive. Gin Stephens has written a couple of readable books on it. You get a lot of the benefits of keto (including ketosis) within a less restrictive framework, plus you spend less on groceries, and less time cooking and cleaning up. Win-win.

[Teacher Terry]

I get shaky and a headache if I go to long without eating. I count calories 6 days/week. On Saturday I eat what I want.

[Geila]

I get shaky and a headache if I go to long without eating.

Dh is like this. He also gets dizzy if he goes too long without food. When I tried IF early this year I did really well on it. And it was actually really easy for me. My current meds make fasting problematic though. His theory is that I have the hunter body type and he has the farmer's.

[JaneV2.0]

I used to get spells of reactive hypoglycemia so bad that T literally couldn't form words. I never got to the passing-out stage, for which I am thankful.
Those are a distant memory--I think thanks to low-carb eating. I can fast for hours up to a couple of days without any more than a hunger pang or two now.

[catherine]

I get shaky and a headache if I go to long without eating. I count calories 6 days/week. On Saturday I eat what I want.

How. long is "too long"? I can go all day without eating until dinner, typically. I might get a little hungry, but if I'm too busy to eat I just put it in the back of my mind until I can get around to making dinner. A small handful of nuts tides me over, and coffee or tea. When I moderate long days, I notice my colleagues and clients are always very kindly concerned about my eating. But I prefer, when I'm working all day, to not eat at all. Eating is a nuisance or a distraction on a busy workday. And not eating doesn't seem to affect me.

[JaneV2.0]

Timely article:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/fasting-for-two-days-could-regenerate-the-immune-system-according-to-research-9506168.html

[Teacher Terry]

Usually 5 hours is too long. I especially need lunch. I am able to go longer if I have had a decent lunch.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I do well enough physically fasting at the time. I find it hard psychologically when working though (ok the exception to some degree is when I had the most rote mindless stress-less job, still easier when not working though).

[iris lilies]

I could be way off here, but my first reaction to the WW idea is that WW for UL is likely to be a lot like me trying to use this place as support to deal with my hoarding issues (summary - it went badly and sucked.) I think he is better off in OA. They are very different approaches to food.
I don’t know what OA does at meetings and what their approach is.

I will say that my experience with Weight Watchers is that when working the program I am super focused on food because I have to be have food around that works for the plan . I cook more. The meetings are pretty obsessed with food – approaches to it, work with it, Shopping for it, Tricks and strategies.

[Tybee]

OA is a spiritual approach. All 12 step programs are. They require a commitment to the others in the group. It will involve service to others, even if it is just listening and caring about them.
WW is not a spiritual approach and the idea is that you can go and work on yourself.
While you work on yourself in a 12 step program, they do operate in a spiritual dimension and see the underlying problems as spiritual ones.
I don't think WW does that, or it didn't the last time I went to a meeting.
So there are big differences in the programs, and probably what you work on.
It's like A A, which OA is based on--the idea is that the drinking is a symptom of your problem, more than the problem itself, but you have to stop drinking to address the problem.

[iris lilies]

OA is a spiritual approach. All 12 step programs are. They require a commitment to the others in the group. It will involve service to others, even if it is just listening and caring about them.
WW is not a spiritual approach and the idea is that you can go and work on yourself.
While you work on yourself in a 12 step program, they do operate in a spiritual dimension and see the underlying problems as spiritual ones.
I don't think WW does that, or it didn't the last time I went to a meeting.
So there are big differences in the programs, and probably what you work on.
It's like A A, which OA is based on--the idea is that the drinking is a symptom of your problem, more than the problem itself, but you have to stop drinking to address the problem.
Ok, thank you for this clear explanation! I always knew about the “higher power “ aspect in the 12 step programs and I figured that I could work with that if I ever needed to, though I am not a believer. It isnt hard to think about a “ higher power” in an abstract way, one I can get behind.


But the way you describe the 12 step program as centering on underlying spiritual problems, hmmm. That philosophymight be hard for me to go all in on.

I wonder how UL is surviving in this spiritual environment.

[catherine]

I wonder how UL is surviving in this spiritual environment.

You define the spiritual environment for yourself. So, UL said that he is using the group as his "higher power" which a lot of secularists typically do. It's basically saying we can't do it all ourselves, and we trust the help and guidance we receive--from whatever or whomever that may be

[Ultralight]

Ok, thank you for this clear explanation! I always knew about the “higher power “ aspect in the 12 step programs and I figured that I could work with that if I ever needed to, though I am not a believer. It isnt hard to think about a “ higher power” in an abstract way, one I can get behind.


But the way you describe the 12 step program as centering on underlying spiritual problems, hmmm. That philosophymight be hard for me to go all in on.

I wonder how UL is surviving in this spiritual environment.

I subscribe the the Sam Harris definition of spiritual. I have internal, subjective experiences -- like when meditating or fishing or fasting.

And I have always believe in a higher power: The State!

[iris lilies]

You define the spiritual environment for yourself. So, UL said that he is using the group as his "higher power" which a lot of secularists typically do. It's basically saying we can't do it all ourselves, and we trust the help and guidance we receive--from whatever or whomever that may be
yes, that view I could accept and participate in.

[Centenarian]

Weight reduction is certainly a benefit of intermittent fasting, but it is not the only one. It is not just that consuming fewer calories drops your calorie intake below your calorie outgo from activity. It also puts your metabolism into a different state, which has other benefits. Unhealthy processes in your body are diminished and restorative processes are enhanced. Not only is your body lighter, it is also functioning better.

[Ultralight]

Weight reduction is certainly a benefit of intermittent fasting, but it is not the only one. It is not just that consuming fewer calories drops your calorie intake below your calorie outgo from activity. It also puts your metabolism into a different state, which has other benefits. Unhealthy processes in your body are diminished and restorative processes are enhanced. Not only is your body lighter, it is also functioning better.
Amen to that!

[Ultralight]

I am still fasting on Mon and Thu each week, but no weight loss. Other benefits are still there. :)

[ApatheticNoMore]

I truly find that surprising, when I tried fasting 2 days a week I lost weight (I couldn't sustain the 2 day a week thing though). Unless your binging otherwise, I guess everyone's body really is different.

[Ultralight]

So I did 16:8 intermittent fasting from Jan. to present, with a couple lapses, such as for my vacation in May. But after months of eating between noon and 8pm I lost zero elbeez.

So in July I am going to do an eating window between 6am and 2pm -- so breakfast and lunch. And see how it works...

[iris lilies]

So I did 16:8 intermittent fasting from Jan. to present, with a couple lapses, such as for my vacation in May. But after months of eating between noon and 8pm I lost zero elbeez.

So in July I am going to do an eating window between 6am and 2pm -- so breakfast and lunch. And see how it works...
Assuming you really do have lbs to lose, you are eating too much.

magical systems of fasting times and windows for eating and etc. will not change the fact that you are consuming too much.

[Ultralight]

Assuming you really do have lbs to lose, you are eating to much.

magical systems of fasting times and windows for eating and etc. will not change the fact that you are consuming too much.
Amen sistah!

[Tammy]

Or alternately, his metabolism is slowing with age. So he eats less than before but doesn’t lose weight.

[ApatheticNoMore]

most people lose weight with intermittent fasting but it's because it tends to make them eat less (personally, I eat less over a week say if fasting). If you make up with eating just as many calories at another time you won't, but it's fine to fast for health and other reasons that have nothing to do with weight loss.

[Ultralight]

Or alternately, his metabolism is slowing with age. So he eats less than before but doesn’t lose weight.

While I definitely overeat, I think this is probably a culprit too, especially since I changed my diet in January. When I stopped eating pigs, birds, goats, and the occasional cow my overeating noticeably lessened, as did my insane food binges.

[iris lilies]

While I definitely overeat, I think this is probably a culprit too, especially since I changed my diet in January. When I stopped eating pigs, birds, goats, and the occasional cow my overeating noticeably lessened, as did my insane food binges.

Buddy, well do I know “eating too much” is the easy diagnosis.

All of the nuances such as what you eat and what you burn is the devil in the details.

That is good to have curbed the binging.

have you tried Trader Joe’s Indian frozen meals? I have recently had two of them and they are surprisingly good.

[Teacher Terry]

The last time I lost weight I ate 1600 calories every day and on Saturday I ate what I wanted. Combined with exercise I slowly lost 40lbs over a year despite being 60.