Tiny housing receives potential boom.

[ToomuchStuff]

When codes start being standardized, it certainly makes for an easier time getting things approved.
http://www.finehomebuilding.com/2018/09/12/tiny-homes-get-big-recognition

[razz]

Wonder how much tiny house will actually happen?

[Teacher Terry]

They are building some here for homeless people. They are also trying to amend the city codes so you could put one in your backyard but I doubt that will pass.

[iris lilies]

This trend is so stupid it makes my head hurt.


Yes tiny houses are charming, yes they intrique us, but dear god they are not practical for “ the homeless” and wtc etc etc. They exist for rich dilettantes.

[sweetana3]

It will be a long,difficult and even impossible task for "tiny houses" to be acceptable in most any area. This is not due to a few building codes but due to zoning requirements including sanitary sewer and water issues. If anyone thought Not in My Backyard problems can be overcome, Habitat for Humanity has issues where I live just getting their quality stick built homes allowed. Tiny houses will be relegated to the same parks that allow mobile homes or RVs and they are few and far between and expensive.

[iris lilies]

It will be a long,difficult and even impossible task for "tiny houses" to be acceptable in most any area. This is not due to a few building codes but due to zoning requirements including sanitary sewer and water issues. If anyone thought Not in My Backyard problems can be overcome, Habitat for Humanity has issues where I live just getting their quality stick built homes allowed. Tiny houses will be relegated to the same parks that allow mobile homes or RVs and they are few and far between and expensive.

yes.

[Teacher Terry]

They are perfect for the homeless that don’t own a lot of stuff. They are actually making a tiny house village for homeless that are willing to be hooked up to social workers to assist with accessing services such as: mental health, employment, SSI if too disabled to work, etc, They are meant to be a steppingstone to permanent housing.

[Teacher Terry]

The backyard idea is so people could have family members close such as elderly parents. However, our neighborhood is being looked at because the backyards are big but their is a shortage of parking due to the university being close by. We have stayed in some Airbnb that were tiny in people’s backyards and they were great.

[JaneV2.0]

Wouldn't they take up much more space than, say, a high-rise set aside for low- or no-income people?
I can think of very few applications for them, personally--student or vacation housing being two.

[Gardenarian]

They are usually not wheelchair friendly they don't have plumbing.

A town near us has a tiny home park for the homeless, but they are owned by the city. It's just a different type of shelter.

Housing is very expensive where I live. What would make more sense would yes, to have inexpensive studio apartments. They don't have to be high rise or even apartment blocks; they could be in converted houses or commercial/industrial space. With toilets and electricity and all.

Not as cute as tricked out tiny homes, but way more livable.

[JaneV2.0]

Seattle had a pilot program where they offered apartments to the homeless--no strings attached. They saved money, and their tenants drank less, among other improvements. I believe Utah also adopted this approach, with a very high success rate.

[Teacher Terry]

G, yes sounds similar to what they are doing here. We have the same issues with rent and something needs to be done. I am just happy to see more people getting off the street and they don’t get thrown outside in the morning like regular shelters.

[Teacher Terry]

Jane, that’s great

[mschrisgo2]

This trend is so stupid it makes my head hurt.


Yes tiny houses are charming, yes they intrigue us, but dear god they are not practical for “ the homeless” and wtc etc etc. They exist for rich dilettantes.

So I'm not understanding why you, IL, think "this is so stupid and it makes your head hurt."

What is wong with smaller living spaces, and collecting less stuff?

[sweetana3]

My take on tiny houses is that they are "cute". But in my urban area, I do not want block full of tiny houses.

As they are presented currently, tiny houses are stick built mobile homes built on a trailer frame that are as small as they are only to meet hiway restrictions on oversized loads.

The ones presented do not normally contain a flush toilet but use a composting toilet of some kind and water may be loaded into tanks or run thru a hose. Heating and cooling a mobile tiny house is not a simple or inexpensive affair.

There is nothing wrong with living in a smaller place or collecting less junk. But these mobile tiny homes are not allowed by almost all zoning laws due to all kinds of issues, like building codes, waste disposal, etc. What is wrong with "rooming houses" built or converted with simple kitchens and shared baths just like existed for most of the last century for both women and men? Heck, in many areas duplexes are illegal, patio attached homes have to be fought for, etc.

There is a Youtube video about a woman who built a custom tiny house and then SURPRISE could not find anywhere to place it and live in it. Another young woman found she could only stop in RV parks and lived with the coming and going of the other customers.

So first, to discuss this issue, the facts and terms need to be defined. Makes my head hurt too.

[Tammy]

https://www.12news.com/article/news/local/valley/tiny-home-community-for-homeless-veterans-opens-in-phoenix/75-599435767

I toured these 3 homes a few weeks ago with my son. Full utilities like any other house. They have small garden spaces and patio spaces also. There are plans for a dozen or so of them a little bit north of me also in another location.

[happystuff]

https://www.12news.com/article/news/local/valley/tiny-home-community-for-homeless-veterans-opens-in-phoenix/75-599435767

I toured these 3 homes a few weeks ago with my son. Full utilities like any other house. They have small garden spaces and patio spaces also. There are plans for a dozen or so of them a little bit north of me also in another location.

I would love a house like in the link. I have a friend that lives in a gorgeous - and inexpensive - trailer park in PA that looks more like small homes. Definitely not your angled trailers in a row. I'm working on getting rid of the stuff and trying to save for a major down-sizing move.

[iris lilies]

So I'm not understanding why you, IL, think "this is so stupid and it makes your head hurt."

What is wong with smaller living spaces, and collecting less stuff?
sweetana pretty much covered it. I will add two points:

emphasizing that small living is something I admire and think is a good thing for several reasons, this idea of giving tiny homes to The Homesless is stupid. The cost per square ft of these trendy things is generally high (depends on the build, of course.) but MY main point is: just giving a shelters to Homeless persons will not magically turn their lives around, they are homeless for a reason.

Didnt we learn in Social Work 101 with all of that public housing built decades ago that herding groups of poor and likely mentally ill people into their own corral is not good for them or the surrounding community?

Sure, communities can figure out some kind of housing that is clean, small, and simple, but that would not be new construction of stick built tiny houses.

And finally, as an old house hugger, if a community wishes to spend a crap ton of money on inflated-cost housing for the poor and mentally ill, please renovate exisitng structures.My city has thousands that are falling down, great old Victorians built to a standard that is much higher than this new stuff.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Giving shelter to homeless people often times will automatically turn their life around. There is a reason for why they are homeless, yes and sometimes that reason is they can't afford housing. Then because they are homeless it is hard to get a job (I don't think causation always works the other way) etc..

I am skeptical that tiny houses are the answer though, why is this preferable again to apartments for single room occupancy? I don't think it would be, if the problem is housing costs for the homeless, you want density. For the density of what look like most tiny home communities you could build single story 1 bedrooms! (and have some room to move by merely sharing some walls and not having empty space between dwellings). But if you want more dense you go with single room occupancy, shared kitchen, multiple stories.

Public housing built decades ago had problems, since then there is less public housing and more homelessness, things have not improved.

[catherine]

Given my son is looking at used campers to park at our VT house next summer, and given that we already have 3 outbuildings and I don't want my yard to look like a clutterfest of tacky-tacky shacks, I considered maybe seeing if a tiny house would look less "hillbilly"--I could side it the same as my house and it would look a little more permanent. And if I invested in it, I could kick out DS when company came :)

But they are very expensive--especially, as Gardenarian said, when they are "tricked out." The cheapest I found was a 10x12 not far from here: $18,000. And I know that that's very cheap for a tiny house. I was dismayed when I went on the Tumbleweed House site recently: that's the one that Jay Schaffer started, back when Dee Williams built her TRULY tiny house: https://www.treehugger.com/sustainable-product-design/woman-happy-living-in-84-square-foot-home.html

But he sold out to another company and now their "tiny" houses start at 20' long and they're upwards of 70k. If I had a 20' long tiny house in my yard it would be about as long as my own "tiny" house.

So I think I'll let him explore his own options. He's seen some decent campers for $3000-$5000. They're old, but as long as they don't leak, they'll serve as shelter.

But I do love the tiny home trend. I agree that they may be problematic for the homeless. For that population, my vision has always been more like Japanese capsule hotels https://www.forbes.com/sites/geoffreymorrison/2016/07/24/what-its-like-to-stay-at-a-japanese-capsule-hotel/#183f68171448.

Not for longer-term temporary homeless housing, but more for per diem shelter. They could be installed in defunct city spaces like old parking lots.

[iris lilies]

Catherine’s example: $70,000. Yeah, let us buy one for every homeless person. My Hermann house which is perfectly livable cost us $79,000.
But then, add to that $70,000 another $30,000 in gubmnt graft, corruption, and red tape.

Decades ago when we were renovating our 1900 square-foot house, the public housing units down the street we’re being renovated as well. We had $100,000 into our house. Their renovation costs were $120,000 for units that averaged 600 sq ft.*

* These costs are approximate because I no longer remember the specifics, but the main point, that the government cannot do anything inexpensively and we are all paying for that, is correct.

[Teacher Terry]

Catherine, RV’s are not insulated well enough for winter. If your son is only looking at summer months it would be fine. That’s one reason people that live in them f.t. follow the warm weather. IL, I would rather the government spend money on housing than wars and tax breaks for the wealthy.

[catherine]

Catherine, RV’s are not insulated well enough for winter. If your son is only looking at summer months it would be fine. That’s one reason people that live in them f.t. follow the warm weather. IL, I would rather the government spend money on housing than wars and tax breaks for the wealthy.

Thanks for the thought, TT. I hadn't considered that. But to be honest, I think he would use it up to 3 seasons of the year (April-November) up here, and just live in his own apartment in Burlington when we aren't here.

[Teacher Terry]

Depending on how tough he is 3 seasons may work. The other thing we are finding out with our 25 yo motor home with 50k miles is that everything is breaking. The parts are all plastic and breaking. Right now we have no water on this trip because all the sinks and shower leaks. Every trip it’s something. We paid a fortune to have the refrigerator fixed for a trip and the next summer it was broke again. We now use coolers. Some years it’s just a rolling tent. Trying to talk DH into selling it next spring and just using motels to travel.

[catherine]

Catherine’s example: $70,000. Yeah, let us buy one for every homeless person. My Hermann house which is perfectly livable cost us $79,000.
But then, add to that $70,000 another $30,000 in gubmnt graft, corruption, and red tape.

Decades ago when we were renovating our 1900 square-foot house, the public housing units down the street we’re being renovated as well. We had $100,000 into our house. Their renovation costs were $120,000 for units that averaged 600 sq ft.*

* These costs are approximate because I no longer remember the specifics, but the main point, that the government cannot do anything inexpensively and we are all paying for that, is correct.

I can't believe you paid $79,000 for that beautiful house/land in a cute town.

IL, you suggested once that I might be more conservative than I might claim to be (I can't remember the exact wording).. and the only thing that makes me feel fiscally conservative at times is the reality that EVERYONE--not just the government--finds it easier to spend other people's money than their own. It's just a fact. So that's why you were able to negotiate renovations for $100k and the government spent 20% more. That's why healthcare costs are SO astronomical--there are too many middlemen and too few people taking the money out of their own pockets. And that goes for both individuals and private enterprise and public institutions.

Yet, I agree with TT--when there is money being thrown around willy-nilly, would I rather have it blow into the coffers of the powerful, or would I rather that some actually does "trickle down" to benefit the least among us. I'm not saying give every homeless person the equivalent of a house in Hermann--but there has to be a better way. DH maintains that if you want someone to actually manage money to the best benefit of the people that need it, are you going to ask the government? Hell no!! But the problem is, the richer you get the less likely you are to have empathy for our neighbors on the lower rungs of society and less likely to level the playing field a little. As you probably well know given that you live up against some rough neighborhoods in St. Louis, poverty affects us all. But not everyone is like you. The rich can escape to rich enclaves and gated communities and pretend that the "untouchables" in this country don't exist.

[Teacher Terry]

Here some people want the homeless shelter to be out of town. That way the tourists don’t have to see them. Yet how could they access services with no transportation? They don’t really care about helping and just want them out of view. This is the stuff that makes my head hurt.

[iris lilies]

Here some people want the homeless shelter to be out of town. That way the tourists don’t have to see them. Yet how could they access services with no transportation? They don’t really care about helping and just want them out of view. This is the stuff that makes my head hurt.

Yes, dont pander to the tourists. Those who are concerned sbout tourism own the businesses that cater to the tourists and they pay for the “services.” But pay no attention to them. Also, br sure to itnore the NIMBY types, just selfish they are.

My friend and I were just talking about San Francisco pre-homeless invasion,and comparing it to post homeless invasion. She got to see that beautiful city before the street people took over. I didnt, and wish I could have.

I have said it before and I’ll say it again: I used to vote Democratic before I move to this city. Then I saw how government especially the feds and their social services Policies especially public housing screwed over those of us who put blood sweat and tears into our community. It was a revelation. Will NEVER forget attending a public hearing about the build out of more public housing down the street and finding a map of public housing possibilities throughout my neighborhood including housing on my very own flower garden. On land I own. On top of my lilies.
Haha, as if. That will not ever happen while I have a breath left in my body.

[ToomuchStuff]

We had an area of this city where houses were tore down, as they were effectively abandoned by all but drug dealers/users, etc. They were in complete disarray to the point of falling down and the city I believe used imminent domain and drug laws to knock them down (under a federal grant). It made news at the time.
Then someone (believe one who owned one), turned them in as they used that old asbestos siding on most of them. They hadn't been "abated" and fines were done, the ground was "considered contaminated" etc. (even after hauling off layers of it)
This area was one where a group was trying to construct a series of tiny houses for homeless vets. It was a get them help and a place to start to get back on their feet sort of thing. The lack of standards for tiny houses was one issue (not the only one).
I personally see the tiny house on a trailer as a different thing then on property. I know some places have size restrictions (too small or too large), and see the tiny house movement as a potential way around some issues.
We have lots that are no longer allowed to be built on (1920's bungalow homes originally). 40' wide lots and a PITA to get the lots combined. Some that have houses around here (one I have watched), is around 500 square feet and priced twice what larger ones are.
I also see this as something I would be interested in, if I bought land. Start with a tiny house, and a big shop/building, and maybe eventually build something larger, after the land is payed for.
Rather that then a trailer on the property, that I see so many do, in the country.

[bicyclist]

This has been an interesting discussion about tiny houses. I have seen a lot of programs on cable t.v. about them. Basically, there would not be a lot of open space to site them in my community although people have built on to existing houses which are often 90 years older or more! I think it's worth looking at "Project Home" in Philadelphia, which provides more than just a place to live but help with mental and physical health and finding jobs for people who are struggling to get by.
Project Home has bought whole apartment buildings to house people with enough space to provide services in house. We would have lots more people living on the streets in Philadelphia if it did not exist along with other organizations dedicated to helping the homeless and low income. Bicyclist

[Teacher Terry]

A proposal to allow people to put a tiny home in their backyard failed. People were concerned that the parking is tight already in the older neighborhoods and the noise issues.

[pinkytoe]

Saw in the newspaper that a tiny house with a man and his cats inside living blew down/fell apart when a blizzard came through...
In Austin, there is a very successful homeless sheltering endeavor with a mix of housing options including RVs, tiny houses etc:
https://mlf.org/community-first/