View Full Version : OH Canna-bis^^ My Home .....
Williamsmith
10-17-18, 11:05am
Well, once again our neighbors to the North have shown that they are the more enlightened country. Perhaps they will adopt a new flag....
2530
Those crossing back into the US might experience a slight delay after spending time in Canada . The Border Patrol will be quite diligent I assume. Could there be any social ramifications?
JaneV2.0
10-17-18, 11:37am
Opioid stocks will tank? That's the first social ramification that leapt to mind.
The libertarian in me would legalize all drugs--I'm particularly waiting for psilocybin, personally--but not without robust treatment plans in place which would likely result in less drug abuse overall. Legalization has certainly worked for Portugal, but we're notoriously averse to learning from other countries.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/dec/05/portugals-radical-drugs-policy-is-working-why-hasnt-the-world-copied-it
The news says that Canadians working in the marijuana business and possibly even investors could be banned from entering the US for life by existing laws. That will probably shake out to something less serious.
From our Colorado experience I'm convinced that marijuana is physically less harmful than alcohol and may not have significant health effects, but I believe it is a demotivater and for some people can be psychologically addictive and can cause mental disorders if abused. I run in an older crowd and know people who use it mostly for a sleep aid or pain relief, both of which I think are mostly like grandma's rheumatize medicine jug, but other than that it's pretty much invisible to me. That's my thoughts on social ramifications, although the movement is gaining momentum everywhere is seems.
catherine
10-17-18, 12:08pm
From our Colorado experience I'm convinced that marijuana is physically less harmful than alcohol and may not have significant health effects, but I believe it is a demotivater and for some people can be psychologically addictive.
I agree with you. It can be a demotivating, but I don't get too worried about unmotivated people as long as they're happy not moving. We are so focused in this country on having to DO DO DO and EXCEL and SUCCEED that sometimes it's refreshing to hang out with someone who just wants to watch the grass grow. That's my experience being somewhat of a DOER/SUCCESS-CHASER myself, and observing friends who are heavy pot-smokers . I am not a pot-smoker myself (I hate the way it makes me feel), but I'll take the let-it-be vibe from my pot friends over the drama and insanity of my alcoholic friends and over the relentless pursuit of perfection of my Type A friends.
JaneV2.0
10-17-18, 12:40pm
The people I know use it for pain relief and sleep. As far as motivation goes, there are strains conducive to just about any level of activity you're interested in, according to the people at Leafly. It is much less harmful than either tobacco or alcohol--physiologically and psychologically--especially if the latest research on alcohol is to be believed. And--at least in Washington--it's taxed to death, so should be good for Canada's bottom line.
Teacher Terry
10-17-18, 1:53pm
It’s legal here and we haven’t seen any issues occurring.
The biggest issue is the combo alcohol and cannabis when driving or operating a machine or at any work setting requiring alert attention.
No one has a proven test for inebriation that will hold up in court.
The smell from the growers who don't use air filtration is a major issue for neighbouring properties.
I heard the first driving while toking arrest was made within the first hour after the law went into effect. Mr. Ford would be proud.
I think we should follow Canada’s lead. With so many forms of commoditized stupidity already available, what’s one more?
I heard the first driving while toking arrest was made within the first hour after the law went into effect. Mr. Ford would be proud.
I think we should follow Canada’s lead. With so many forms of commoditized stupidity already available, what’s one more?
From what I have been told and what I have read elsewhere, cannabis has been consumed by the majority of the population for some time. I know of those who do use it with great care to not offend. The legal is supposed to undermine the large illegal sales. We'll see...
I heard the first driving while toking arrest was made within the first hour after the law went into effect. Mr. Ford would be proud.
I think we should follow Canada’s lead. With so many forms of commoditized stupidity already available, what’s one more?
I'm offended on behalf of my friends who use cannabis for medicinal reasons. Like my stroke-victim relative who finds it far preferable to opioids. I'd be offended on behalf of myself, but I recognize an uninformed throwaway line when I see one.
The biggest issue is the combo alcohol and cannabis when driving or operating a machine or at any work setting requiring alert attention.
No one has a proven test for inebriation that will hold up in court.
The smell from the growers who don't use air filtration is a major issue for neighbouring properties.
Which makes me wonder how authorities measure impairment by opioids and other pharmaceuticals.
After the accident, I assume, in bloodwork.
Which makes me wonder how authorities measure impairment by opioids and other pharmaceuticals.
iris lilies
10-18-18, 7:54pm
If we are going to start following Canada’s lead, could we please echo them in having a strong decentralized government? You know, kinda like our founding fathers envisioned? Pretty please?
After the accident, I assume, in bloodwork.
You can smell alcohol, you might be able to smell cannabis (if smoked), but pharmaceuticals have no telltale characteristics. Unless they test everyone involved in accidents, which would be cost-prohibitive.
Williamsmith
10-18-18, 8:51pm
Having been burdened with the enforcement of simple possession of controlled substances.....I’d say I would much rather conduct a death investigation. Nothing ruins a young person’s future more than the presence of a illegal substance conviction on a criminal history report. We are a mature enough nation to find other ways of addressing it rather than imprisonment and punishment......aren’t we? Kudos to any jurisdiction that tries to find a better way.
After the accident, I assume, in bloodwork.
except that the blood will show pot usage days or weeks afterwards, long after one is no longer impaired.
I'm offended on behalf of my friends who use cannabis for medicinal reasons. Like my stroke-victim relative who finds it far preferable to opioids. I'd be offended on behalf of myself, but I recognize an uninformed throwaway line when I see one.
Hey, medicinal purposes, ennui, whatever reason you like. Adults should be able to choose their poison. Just as we should all have the right to take offense at whatever we like, whether forthrightly or by presumed proxy.
Speaking of "poison." cannabis is notably non-toxic--fatal overdoses are unheard-of. Wherever it has been made legal, opioid deaths have declined.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomangell/2018/04/02/legal-marijuana-states-have-lower-opioid-use-new-studies-show/#153601285696
Now that it has been made legal in Canada, it will be studied exhaustively, which may be bad news for Pharma and Pharma investors. After all, cannabis was medicine long before anyone thought about making obscene profits off Illness.
Even if it doesn’t turn out to be a golden age of self-medication, I think people should be allowed to indulge in any substance they like. No need to clothe it in clouds of righteousness. We shouldn’t need to defend our vices to any moral arbiters.
JaneV2.0
10-19-18, 10:50am
That's the difference between us. I don't see it as a vice, but a useful. innocuous substance, less problematic than a glass of wine. I guess anything can be a vice if it's misused.
I don't think it's a panacea, but it has helped people I know with a variety of ailments from insomnia to arthritis to post-stroke pain to the process of dying. I haven't taken the time to experiment with it much for my own issues, but I may yet.
Rubbish, I say!!!!!
How many people are killed or maimed for a lifetime due to inebriated drivers? How many families are in anguish due to another's OD on an opioid? How many dollars are spent out of limited family income or trigger robberies to indulge these "choices" as you call them. How many precious healthcare resources are spent on assisting those that indulge from living with the tragic consequences of their choices.
Come on, Idahl, the flippant comment is not your usual intelligent response to a very complex issue. Am I being a moral arbiter by raising these concerns about those that indulge?
If one chooses to indulge
Even if it doesn’t turn out to be a golden age of self-medication, I think people should be allowed to indulge in any substance they like. No need to clothe it in clouds of righteousness. We shouldn’t need to defend our vices to any moral arbiters.
Rubbish, I say!!!!!
How many people are killed or maimed for a lifetime due to inebriated drivers? How many families are in anguish due to another's OD on an opioid? How many dollars are spent out of limited family income or trigger robberies to indulge these "choices" as you call them. How many precious healthcare resources are spent on assisting those that indulge from living with the tragic consequences of their choices.
Come on, Idahl, the flippant comment is not your usual intelligent response to a very complex issue. Am I being a moral arbiter by raising these concerns about those that indulge?
If one chooses to indulge
We’ve tried the prohibition route on any number of fronts. How well has it worked out?
In my view, the burden should be on government to justify restrictions on the individual, not on the individual to justify liberties to be retained. There’s no need to paint pot as a wonder drug, it should be left to individuals to choose. Would I be more confident in our future if we were a more sober, less self-indulgent society? Yes, but I see that as more a cultural issue than a social engineering problem.
I don't think the choice is between blissed-out libertinism (is that word? and strait-laced joyless priggery. I suppose as a society we're more self-indulgent than, say, North Korea, but given a choice...
I don't think the choice is between blissed-out libertinism (is that word? and strait-laced joyless priggery. I suppose as a society we're more self-indulgent than, say, North Korea, but given a choice...
I would certainly agree that there is some wiggle room between decadence and Puritanism. My preference would be for a society with decadence as an option but where the vast majority maintain those good old bourgeois values voluntarily. Ultimately freedom has to rest on a base of virtue.
I would certainly agree that there is some wiggle room between decadence and Puritanism. My preference would be for a society with decadence as an option but where the vast majority maintain those good old bourgeois values voluntarily. Ultimately freedom has to rest on a base of virtue.
Who gets to decide what is decadence? Or virtue, for that matter. There's the rub.
Who gets to decide what is decadence? Or virtue, for that matter. There's the rub.
Ultimately, I would expect a sort of evolutionary process to be applicable, with the more decadent societies being less competitive than the more self-disciplined.
Like the liberal (decadent?) countries of northwestern Europe? :~) If we had free borders and could vote with our feet, it might be an interesting experiment. A little discipline, whether imposed from within or without, goes a long way with me, so I'd go for the vibrant, messy, creative country, wherever that was.
Like the liberal (decadent?) countries of northwestern Europe? :~) If we had free borders and could vote with our feet, it might be an interesting experiment. A little discipline, whether imposed from within or without, goes a long way with me, so I'd go for the vibrant, messy, creative country, wherever that was.
The long term risk there might be the need to rebuild more of a culture of martial discipline should their barbarous ally withdraw its protection.
Teacher Terry
10-19-18, 4:15pm
Instead of putting people in prison who use drugs I would like to see the money for for treatment. A good friend of mine with very bad MS gets relief from marijuana.
The long term risk there might be the need to rebuild more of a culture of martial discipline should their barbarous ally withdraw its protection.
Or maybe the need for massive layers of "protection" is just a marketing ploy.
I think a lot of the social acceptance of pot has come from studies and stories that say it is no worse than alcohol in many respects, if not better for ones health and risk of psychological or physical addiction. Fact is that alcohol when abused is a nasty substance. It's a basically a poison that has to be detoxified by the liver and is associated with multiple diseases and probably a lot of domestic abuse, high speed chases and other crimes. When I go home late (say 10 o'clock by my standards) after an evening out there are bar parking lots full of cars and I'm not buying that everyone has a drink or two or has a designated driver at closing time.
From a societal view I'm not so sure adding easy access to another drug is a positive thing. Our state just published sales number year to date as over 1 billion dollars (with 200 million in tax revenue). For what ever benefits there are medically or used by people to relax and watch the grass grow, some or many people are over medicating and even though it's mostly consumed in the home by law, people are driving high.
And it's not just pot and alcohol, but prescription medications besides opiates that are mis-prescribed or abused.
I voted for legal pot in my state, but have had second thoughts. It seems like pot sales growth and use have the potential to get very large. Given the legality of alcohol it seems like a case of double standards to say one is ok, but not the other. But I see it as a sign of a deep societal issues when so many need to escape their normal physiological functions to escape reality routinely.
Responsible adult of of either is fine by me, but it just doesn't work out like that.
Williamsmith
10-19-18, 9:10pm
Perhaps, the fact that the United States incarcerates 655/100,000 Of it’s citizens per capita...the highest on planet earth.....is a sign that we can do better. All incumbent law makers should be uneasy this coming mid terms.
The long term risk there might be the need to rebuild more of a culture of martial discipline should their barbarous ally withdraw its protection.
When I was in Sweden, Finland, and Norway recently I did not notice a lack of martial discipline. I made it a point to visit the military museums in these countries, and they were remarkably bloodthirsty and proud. I wouldn't mess with the Norwegians or the Finns.
The Icelanders had some displays too, of how they'd crushed the British in the Cod War.
I'm in Oregon. Since legalization and the legalization to GROW commercially, we've seen quite a lot of changes. I'm in Southern Oregon and we've seen an increase in crime, an increase in population and huge increases in rent and housing costs. People's quality of life has definitely changed for a lot of people due to this. Similar reports from California. Just making it legal to smoke and making it legal to grow and create agriculture are two different things.
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