The Migrant Caravan.

[CathyA]

How do you feel this should be handled? I intensely dislike Trump, but I agree that we can't keep letting so many people in. To be honest, I find it curious when people think we should have open borders. I wonder how they would feel if they lived near the southwest border? And just think of the resources necessary to let them in and then go through the acceptance/rejection process? We don't take care of those already living here (education, food, etc.).

Seems like it would be a better use of our resources, to somehow make some of these south american countries safer.......but that's probably being naive.

I know most of us really feel for these people who want a better life. But, realistically, shouldn't we be careful to let so many in, when it adds to our country's burdens already?
It would be nice if we could talk about this without only views of the far opposing ends of the continuum being in the list of options.

It's really easy to say "just let them all in", when you live 3,000 miles from the border, and it's not your responsibility to deal with all the issues involved.

[Ultralight]

My advice to you is this: Only worry about things you can have an influence over. So look around your life, your daily, weekly, monthly, yearly life. And organize according to what you actually can influence. This migrant caravan is virtually entirely outside your control.

[CathyA]

Well, I don't think it is. What if we all ignored problems in our country, even though we weren't personally experiencing them? On a more selfish note........if we ignored them, we could lose those things close around us that make our lives more livable.

[Ultralight]

Well, I don't think it is. What if we all ignored problems in our country, even though we weren't personally experiencing them? On a more selfish note........if we ignored them, we could lose those things close around us that make our lives more livable.

Tell me how you fretting over this caravan is influencing it.

[LDAHL]

Stop them at the border. Process them in accordance with the law. Send those who don't qualify home.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I just read online that this caravan reached the Mexican border. It is going to be very interesting to see how Mexico deals with this issue - with a new President, a lame duck President still in office until December that hates Trump, a population that is increasingly wary and distrustful of the United States due to Trump's behavior towards Mexico, and now pressure from Trump to intervene and halt the caravan or the US border is sealed per his recent threat - damned be any US citizen locked out of health care access desperately needing to access Mexican health care.

I don't know how Mexico is going to proceed and I offer no predictions - as the saying in Mexico goes - Nothing happens in Mexico until it happens. Rob

PS Should this caravan come either of the two ports of entry facing Nogales, Arizona, or the Andrade Port of Entry in California (Los Algodones is on the other side and this is only eight miles away, if that, from Yuma, Arizona) - I would attempt to switch with hours to get a day off to join the protests that are inevitable. We'll see where the caravan attempts to enter, if Mexico allows them entry to continue onwards.

[Teacher Terry]

Cathy, I understand your feelings. No we can’t let everyone in and many are coming because of the violence in their own countries. They don’t stop in Mexico because there aren’t jobs there. The problem with letting our laws decide is that they aren’t being applied fairly and correctly. People truly needing asylum are being turned away and kids are being jailed and traumatized. Ignoring issues doesn’t make them go away and gives this immoral administration a green light to keep abusing people.

[CathyA]

Stop them at the border. Process them in accordance with the law. Send those who don't qualify home.

But we haven’t even adequately handled the last group that came in. It’s a mess. And the resources it would take to follow the law for so many people all the time it’s ridiculous. We can’t afford to even give the children of this country decent educations. I think our attempts to be fair and humane need to be re-thought. Life is unfair. It isn’t the same country it was in the early 1900s. I know this sounds awful but the world has gotten to such a place that we can’t afford to always be fair and humane. The immigration policy really needs to be overhauled. And it just can’t be one extreme or the other. We don’t even consider following Canada’s way of bringing migrants in to harvest food and then go back home. We don’t take suggestions well from anyone else even if it would be the best thing. I’m usually a pretty compassionate person. But I’m seeing the writing on the wall with letting all these immigrants in all the time. And it bothers me how many resources And money are used to follow the law and put them through the process before letting them stay or sending them back. Wouldn’t it be nice if we didn’t pay billions to our enemies and use it to build up these other South American at Central American countries so that people wouldn’t want to flee them? What a mess.

[CathyA]

I just read online that this caravan reached the Mexican border. It is going to be very interesting to see how Mexico deals with this issue - with a new President, a lame duck President still in office until December that hates Trump, a population that is increasingly wary and distrustful of the United States due to Trump's behavior towards Mexico, and now pressure from Trump to intervene and halt the caravan or the US border is sealed per his recent threat - damned be any US citizen locked out of health care access desperately needing to access Mexican health care.

I don't know how Mexico is going to proceed and I offer no predictions - as the saying in Mexico goes - Nothing happens in Mexico until it happens. Rob

PS Should this caravan come either of the two ports of entry facing Nogales, Arizona, or the Andrade Port of Entry in California (Los Algodones is on the other side and this is only eight miles away, if that, from Yuma, Arizona) - I would attempt to switch with hours to get a day off to join the protests that are inevitable. We'll see where the caravan attempts to enter, if Mexico allows them entry to continue onwards..

So Rob, What exactly is it that you are wanting to protest?

[flowerseverywhere]

Enforce the laws on the books and open up discussions on things our legislators should be discussing and debating, some of which are obviously very extreme and controversial but are being bantered around as ways to deter.

ending birthright citizenship
end sanctuary cities
no drivers licences to non legal residents.
phasing out illegal children in public schools on a three year plan. Year one, no new illegal children admitted, two more years to phase other illegal children out
put a limit on how long you can have a green card before either becoming a citizen or working towards that goal
deport illegals regardless if they have followed the laws. No exceptions. Drunk driving, crime, no car insurance, illegal drug use etc. immediate deportation.
No provision for Government paid interpreters at all phases of legal proceedings
close the border as threatened. No one in, no one out without a US passport
no foreign aid to countries that allow people to pass through
ending chain migration
deduct the emergency room bill from any countries foreign aid for illegal aliens who use the ER
make a three tier plan for state university tuition. In state residents, out of state residents, out of country residents.
Phase in higher fines and jail time for using illegal workers
points off citizenship applications if you have used public benefits like food stamps
Ending catch and release.
Seperation of children at the border
and so on

one of the reasons that people are coming is that every other breath out of Trumps mouth is how great the economy is, how many gazillion new jobs he is creating, how much work their is. Obviously that becomes a magnet for those with high unemployment rates

[iris lilies]

But we haven’t even adequately handled the last group that came in. It’s a mess. And the resources it would take to follow the law for so many people all the time it’s ridiculous. We can’t afford to even give the children of this country decent educations. I think our attempts to be fair and humane need to be re-thought. Life is unfair. It isn’t the same country it was in the early 1900s. I know this sounds awful but the world has gotten to such a place that we can’t afford to always be fair and humane. The immigration policy really needs to be overhauled. And it just can’t be one extreme or the other. We don’t even consider following Canada’s way of bringing migrants in to harvest food and then go back home. We don’t take suggestions well from anyone else even if it would be the best thing. I’m usually a pretty compassionate person. But I’m seeing the writing on the wall with letting all these immigrants in all the time. And it bothers me how many resources And money are used to follow the law and put them through the process before letting them stay or sending them back. Wouldn’t it be nice if we didn’t pay billions to our enemies and use it to build up these other South American at Central American countries so that people wouldn’t want to flee them? What a mess.

you are wrong. The U.S. allows many green workers in as temporary workers to work in the green industry.

[iris lilies]

Enforce the laws on the books and open up discussions on things our legislators should be discussing and debating, some of which are obviously very extreme and controversial but are being bantered around as ways to deter.

ending birthright citizenship
end sanctuary cities
no drivers licences to non legal residents.
phasing out illegal children in public schools on a three year plan. Year one, no new illegal children admitted, two more years to phase other illegal children out
put a limit on how long you can have a green card before either becoming a citizen or working towards that goal
deport illegals regardless if they have followed the laws. No exceptions. Drunk driving, crime, no car insurance, illegal drug use etc. immediate deportation.
No provision for Government paid interpreters at all phases of legal proceedings
close the border as threatened. No one in, no one out without a US passport
no foreign aid to countries that allow people to pass through
ending chain migration
deduct the emergency room bill from any countries foreign aid for illegal aliens who use the ER
make a three tier plan for state university tuition. In state residents, out of state residents, out of country residents.
Phase in higher fines and jail time for using illegal workers
points off citizenship applications if you have used public benefits like food stamps
Ending catch and release.
Seperation of children at the border
and so on

one of the reasons that people are coming is that every other breath out of Trumps mouth is how great the economy is, how many gazillion new jobs he is creating, how much work their is. Obviously that becomes a magnet for those with high unemployment rates

Wow, you are proposing draconian changes!

I like that .;)

but they will not fly.

[Yppej]

I don't even like how legal immigration is handled. A coworker just brought over her parents from Cambodia. Supposedly since she is their sponsor they will not be a financial burden on this country, but they are. She takes off time when it is busiest at work to take them to the doctor's and translate. They are on Medicaid and don't work at all. How many American working poor don't qualify for Medicaid and can't afford private insurance and don't get medical care or go bankrupt paying for it?

This couple are in their 50's and despite the language barrier could work as there are asembly jobs in the area with bilingual supervisors who speak Khmer, but they complain in October only that it is too cold and they don't want to leave their house. So I and the other taxpayers who do have to work foot the bill for their medical care.

[Teacher Terry]

I don’t know how they got on Medicaid but it is not legal. When you sponsor someone you sign a paper that you will support them for 10 years as they cannot qualify for government assistance and they check your finances to make sure that you can afford to do that. I know from personal experience. Flowers, when I read what you would like to happen I didn’t agree with one thing. The suggestions were all awful.

[jp1]

Enforce the laws on the books and open up discussions on things our legislators should be discussing and debating, some of which are obviously very extreme and controversial but are being bantered around as ways to deter.

ending birthright citizenship
end sanctuary cities
no drivers licences to non legal residents.
phasing out illegal children in public schools on a three year plan. Year one, no new illegal children admitted, two more years to phase other illegal children out
put a limit on how long you can have a green card before either becoming a citizen or working towards that goal
deport illegals regardless if they have followed the laws. No exceptions. Drunk driving, crime, no car insurance, illegal drug use etc. immediate deportation.
No provision for Government paid interpreters at all phases of legal proceedings
close the border as threatened. No one in, no one out without a US passport
no foreign aid to countries that allow people to pass through
ending chain migration
deduct the emergency room bill from any countries foreign aid for illegal aliens who use the ER
make a three tier plan for state university tuition. In state residents, out of state residents, out of country residents.
Phase in higher fines and jail time for using illegal workers
points off citizenship applications if you have used public benefits like food stamps
Ending catch and release.
Seperation of children at the border
and so on

one of the reasons that people are coming is that every other breath out of Trumps mouth is how great the economy is, how many gazillion new jobs he is creating, how much work their is. Obviously that becomes a magnet for those with high unemployment rates

So in other words the republican platform. Yawn. Maybe instead of starting with the base assumption that immigration is bad we should have a conversation about whether immigrants are the net negative the scared folks think they are. I mean, just because trump tells us they are all rapists and murderers doesn't make it so.

[Teacher Terry]

Our country was founded on immigrants.

[CathyA]

Our country was founded on immigrants.

No offense Teacher Terry, but that statement makes me crazy. It's a totally different time in the world today. Life is not the same. The land is not the same. NOTHING is the same. We need to be flexible to deal with the present.
It's sort of like the right to bear arms. They were talking about muskets. Now look where we are.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could just let in migrants who already had a skill/motivation/common sense, and trade them with all our citizens who have nothing to give except crime and need welfare? Yeah, let's do that exchange! ;)

[CathyA]

Enforce the laws on the books and open up discussions on things our legislators should be discussing and debating, some of which are obviously very extreme and controversial but are being bantered around as ways to deter.

ending birthright citizenship
end sanctuary cities
no drivers licences to non legal residents.
phasing out illegal children in public schools on a three year plan. Year one, no new illegal children admitted, two more years to phase other illegal children out
put a limit on how long you can have a green card before either becoming a citizen or working towards that goal
deport illegals regardless if they have followed the laws. No exceptions. Drunk driving, crime, no car insurance, illegal drug use etc. immediate deportation.
No provision for Government paid interpreters at all phases of legal proceedings
close the border as threatened. No one in, no one out without a US passport
no foreign aid to countries that allow people to pass through
ending chain migration
deduct the emergency room bill from any countries foreign aid for illegal aliens who use the ER
make a three tier plan for state university tuition. In state residents, out of state residents, out of country residents.
Phase in higher fines and jail time for using illegal workers
points off citizenship applications if you have used public benefits like food stamps
Ending catch and release.
Seperation of children at the border
and so on

one of the reasons that people are coming is that every other breath out of Trumps mouth is how great the economy is, how many gazillion new jobs he is creating, how much work their is. Obviously that becomes a magnet for those with high unemployment rates

Actually, I like quite a few of those ideas, and think they are just common sense. Yeah, Trump is a loose canon (the loose-canon-in-chief), and nobody should believe anything he says. :(

[Teacher Terry]

Most people are only on welfare a very short time to get on their feet. Welfare queens are a myth. Unskilled people are needed to do all the work that Americans won’t do. Have you seen any white people lately working the fields? Immigrants know how to work hard, sacrifice to get ahead and save their money. Many end up owning businesses.

[CathyA]

I just wish everyone wasn't so polarized on this issue. It shouldn't be all or nothing. Why can't our government make decent choices?
It seems like "freedom for all" sounds great and everything is based on that. Then eventually, it starts appearing that that concept is causing problems.
I know this is a poor example........but take drones for example. Oh yeah, they're great! And all the companies start selling them to any and everyone.
Now we're realizing that they can cause problems to airplanes, etc. and need to back-track. Why don't we think things out before we jump into allowing everything??

I know you conservatives feel that government should stay out of things......but what do you think would happen without it? We'd be kids in a candy store, and be throwing up at the end of the day. (and killing each other)..........but then again, that would take care of population......... And liberals are "everything for everyone.......we love them all, no matter what they do!"

I wish I didn't think so much.

[CathyA]

Most people are only on welfare a very short time to get on their feet. Welfare queens are a myth. Unskilled people are needed to do all the work that Americans won’t do. Have you seen any white people lately working the fields? Immigrants know how to work hard, sacrifice to get ahead and save their money. Many end up owning businesses.

Then let's FORCE people to work in the field. The country is being run like bad parents, in the sense that you can't let your kids make the rules when they're young, and then expect them to be responsible when they get older.
It's called DISCIPLINE. But hey......isn't that too dictatorial? but seriously...........why can't we force people to work in jobs they don't necessarily like, if that's the only way they can have money to eat, have a roof over their heads, etc.
I'm sure you're thinking "What if they do a shit job in the field? Well, then they don't eat dinner. Period.

I think this country thinks that reasonable expectations of behavior is un-democratic. I don't know what the answer is, but I sure don't like the way some things are. It's just not working.

[Yppej]

I don’t know how they got on Medicaid but it is not legal. When you sponsor someone you sign a paper that you will support them for 10 years as they cannot qualify for government assistance and they check your finances to make sure that you can afford to do that. I know from personal experience. Flowers, when I read what you would like to happen I didn’t agree with one thing. The suggestions were all awful.

It absolutely is legal and common. The rule is that the new immigrant cannot be "primarily dependent" on government assistance. So in a high cost of living area if they live with family the housing counts as a large portion of their support and they can get Medicaid, SNAP, etc.

ETA: Trump is trying to change this. If you want to read more about this Google "public charge".

[iris lilies]

Our country was founded on immigrants.
Do ya think we dont know that? I mean, really.

[Teacher Terry]

IL, then stop acting like immigration is horrible. Thought people needed to be reminded.

[Yppej]

Do ya think we dont know that? I mean, really.

But people may not know they came over the Bering land bridge.

[Yppej]

IL, then stop acting like immigration is horrible.

Horrible isn't the word I would use, but for immigrants who do not work wouldn't it make more sense to support them in their own country where the cost of living is lower, using foreign aid?

This obviously would not apply in countries like Syria that are war zones.

[iris lilies]

I just wish everyone wasn't so polarized on this issue. It shouldn't be all or nothing. Why can't our government make decent choices?
It seems like "freedom for all" sounds great and everything is based on that. Then eventually, it starts appearing that that concept is causing problems.
I know this is a poor example........but take drones for example. Oh yeah, they're great! And all the companies start selling them to any and everyone.
Now we're realizing that they can cause problems to airplanes, etc. and need to back-track. Why don't we think things out before we jump into allowing everything??

I know you conservatives feel that government should stay out of things......but what do you think would happen without it? We'd be kids in a candy store, and be throwing up at the end of the day. (and killing each other)..........but then again, that would take care of population......... And liberals are "everything for everyone.......we love them all, no matter what they do!"

I wish I didn't think so much.
You seem to be the one painting the immigration issue as all or nothing, and that is uninformed. This country has several programs to allow and encourage immigrant people. You post as though they don’t exist now, that it is a free-for-all.


Of course it is not. When you say “it shouldn’t be all or nothing “ please recognize that “it” is not that.

And your representation of “ conservative” thought is cartoonish. If I need to state a common conservative view in a very simple way so that you can understand it, it is this: the one important Job the federal government has is to defend the country and defend its borders. Most all conservatives would agree that this is either the single most important job OR it is up there very high on a list of important jobs.

And when you talk about conservatives feeling “ that government should stay out of things” perhaps make some small distinction between federal, state, and local government. They have different roles in my life.

[flowerseverywhere]

I don’t know how they got on Medicaid but it is not legal. When you sponsor someone you sign a paper that you will support them for 10 years as they cannot qualify for government assistance and they check your finances to make sure that you can afford to do that. I know from personal experience. Flowers, when I read what you would like to happen I didn’t agree with one thing. The suggestions were all awful.

I did not propose any of these things. I said they should be discusses and appropriate laws passed. Because if we don’t discuss anything and wait for executive orders to be written, then court decisions to stop them it makes for a ridiculous system.

[flowerseverywhere]

So in other words the republican platform. Yawn. Maybe instead of starting with the base assumption that immigration is bad we should have a conversation about whether immigrants are the net negative the scared folks think they are. I mean, just because trump tells us they are all rapists and murderers doesn't make it so.
I am not proposing these things or saying we should do any of these things. But if they are not discussed and compromised as I said before, executive order, lawsuits and so on. We deserve better than our current system.

[gimmethesimplelife]

.

So Rob, What exactly is it that you are wanting to protest?Cathy, Hi, and Thank You for this very fair question. This is a hard one for me in a way as I agree with you'all that we can't save the entire world and I'm 50/50 over letting the caravan in myself. So - given this last, what to protest?

The immigration system in this country and how genuine cases deserving asylum are being turned away, based on arbitrary decision by far too powerful (mostly) not highly educated front line personnel, who in some cases harbor discrimination against those in front of them and since there's no checks and balances on their power, they can get away with it. To me, this all is worthy of months and months and months of protest.....but I do have bills like anyone else, you know? I do what I can. Rob

[Teacher Terry]

Cathy, the welfare system helps people find jobs that are year round and steady so they get off of welfare. Making them work in the fields is not a viable long term solution out of poverty. However, they are jobs for immigrants first coming into our country before they get established or illegals.

[Gardenarian]

I feel the U.S. has an obligation to these refugees, as our government's interference in Central America has been the source of much of the violence and hardship.

We're willing to support dictators and the military in El Salvador and Guatemala, and then when people are fleeing for their lives we want to wash our hands of them.

I would rather my tax dollars be spent on helping refugees build new lives than on the U.S military, which seems bent on creating more refugees everywhere it goes.

What can I do? Call Congress, the Senate, write letters, speak out.

[JaneV2.0]

Given the current toxic regime in this country--Miller, Bannon, Gorka, Trump--I suggest we either remove the Statue of Liberty or cover it with something appropriate, perhaps the neo-nazi Schutzstaffel or the Celtic cross flag. It's clearly served its purpose. Immigrants are what made this country a beacon to the rest of the world--especially the despised ones, who came here with nothing and transformed themselves and their adopted country in a generation or two. Anyone who wants to pull up the gangplanks now (another shining example of "I've got mine, to hell with you!") should be ashamed of themselves.

Do a little research and learn that www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2017/12/04/almost-half-of-fortune-500-companies-were-founded-by-american-immigrants-or-their-children/immigrants are starting companies at well above their (tiny) representation in the population:

[gimmethesimplelife]

Given the current toxic regime in this country--Miller, Bannon, Gorka, Trump--I suggest we either remove the Statue of Liberty or cover it with something appropriate, perhaps the neo-nazi Schutzstaffel or the Celtic cross flag. It's clearly served its purpose. Immigrants are what made this country a beacon to the rest of the world--especially the despised ones, who came here with nothing and transformed themselves and their adopted country in a generation or two. Anyone who wants to pull up the gangplanks now (another shining example of "I've got mine, to hell with you!") should be ashamed of themselves.

Do a little research and learn that www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2017/12/04/almost-half-of-fortune-500-companies-were-founded-by-american-immigrants-or-their-children/immigrants are starting companies at well above their (tiny) representation in the population:When I visited Europe with my Mother back in 2015, on the portion of trip outside of Austria, I was on a flight from Vienna to Lisbon and from Lisbon to Madrid on TAP Portugal (a fairly decent airline btw) and a male Portuguese flight attendant and I were flirting - long story I won't go into but how this ties in is that Romao said to me that France should take the Statue of Liberty back, given how America treats refugees these days. And this was back in 2015.....I agreed with him and this got me a bottle of Portuguese chilled white wine on the house (not why I agreed but it was a nice touch).

Even before Trump there was international awareness of this issue (also for Australia, too, which takes mistreatment of refugees levels higher than the US does)....and this was on Obama's watch, liberal that I am I admit this here and now. Rob

[CathyA]

It's a difficult issue, for sure. I wish we could have reasonable, humane laws that were upheld, with everyone in mind.

I have trouble with all of the increasing population.........no matter where it comes from. I'm a country person and see so much crazy development/traffic, etc. that never seems to end. I need space around me. I can go for days/weeks without talking to anyone. So I don't like the idea of any people constantly flooding into our country/state/county. Yes, our government makes some horrible choices in terms of where our money goes. I'm just very unhappy about what is happening in so many areas of this planet. It doesn't mean I'm not grateful for what I have, because I am. But on the other hand, I don't want to lose it either. I can feel sorry for others, while still not wanting to lose my way of life.

There is no answer to any of this. So even though I initially disagreed with UL on just focusing on my own little corner of the world, I guess that's what I'll do. Everything else seems futile to change. It's funny, when we bought this piece of rural property about 36 years ago, the seller advertised it as "A Little Bit of Heaven"........which it is, in a very rustic way. But it will probably be a city by the time I die. I will be glad to be leaving.

Anyhow.......I'm just overwhelmed with humankind and all the unfortunate choices that most of them seem to make.

[Yppej]

If lifelong US citizens had guaranteed affordable health care I wouldn't be so inclined to begrudge it to folks just off the boat. Charity begins at home.

[flowerseverywhere]

If lifelong US citizens had guaranteed affordable health care I wouldn't be so inclined to begrudge it to folks just off the boat. Charity begins at home.

we also need to think about our own natural disaster refugees. The devastating floods and winds from the recent hurricanes have destroyed $22 billion from Florence in property damage alone plus the Michael damage. 90% of the cotton crop and 40% of the peanut crop in Florida was destroyed. Tyndall Air Force base was destroyed
getting these people out of shelters, schools back open or helping them get to relatives and friends should be a big priority. There is no place for people to shop, live or work

there are are more than 13,000 migrant children being detained in various camps, foster homes and shelters at taxpayer expense.

8-10% of the us citizens have no health insurance.

we have plenty of problems just meeting these residents needs, and we are taking on debt hand over fist.

It all just doesn’t add up to me as a sustainable way of running the country.

[CathyA]

Good post, flowerseverywhere. I agree with you. We have so many problems to deal with. I just don't see how we can keep adding more and more. As you said, it's just not sustainable.

[bae]

I find it interesting that this issue pops up just in time to use to "rally the base" and distract people.

It's great to have a horde of "others" approaching the border to really pep up the nationalists!

[Teacher Terry]

We can afford plenty if we put our money in the correct places. Huge tax breaks for the rich could help a lot of people as could all the money we give in foreign aid.

[jp1]

We can afford plenty if we put our money in the correct places. Huge tax breaks for the rich could help a lot of people as could all the money we give in foreign aid.

+ 1000. All the whining about "we just can't afford this" "it's not sustainable" is just a bunch of republican talking points. But just as they falsely claim to be "fiscally responsible" or in favor of "family values" it's all just a bunch of tired BS. We're the richest country on the planet. We have plenty of money to do a lot of stuff if we don't worry about the richest among us getting all whiny about having to shell out one or two percent of their income to help others.

[Teacher Terry]

There are some wealthy people that feel the same way such as Buffet and Gates. People with real integrity.

[flowerseverywhere]

Painting people with a broad brush is wrong. I don’t believe illegal immigration is a good thing. My early voting ballot is in, straight democrat. I disagree with Trump on 90% of his policies, 99% of his stupid tweets.

But everyone one who believes that you just cannot go to a country and walk in is not a hater, selfish and racist. Many people, from the poorest to the richest have great generosity, integrity and values and do not agree with many of our immigration policies.

Where I live an adjacent town is very poor. Less than 30% of the kids in school are at grade level for math and reading. I volunteer at the public library and we raise money that goes to school reading programs. I volunteer at the school library and we help the librarian with her reading programs. Many of my friends tutor. Every child gets free breakfast and lunch. At the start of school each child gets a new backpack full of supplies, courtesy of local volunteer organizations and churches. Churches have undie sundays, sock drives, pack weekend snack boxes, and one organization provides PJ’s and books for Christmas for all the kids.
My Jewish friend and I, an atheist, are welcome in a local church that goes into the poorest neighborhoods where they help People spruce up their houses. Repairing broken windows, painting, fixing roofs, getting working appliances donated gives people great pride and spreads throughout the community. The waiting list always had twenty or so people on it that just need a little hand up. Sometimes it is a big hand up. They make sure everyone has a bed and my quilt group makes sure every bed has a new set of sheets, new pillows and a homemade quilt on it The church has a whole mentorship program that works to keep in touch with these families. Pride goes a long way.

My state has the fifth largest illegal population in the country. Being undocumented they have to work at low wages, or under the table which depresses legal wages and helps keep working people at the poverty level. This is also a big problem in the schools. Kids come in with not a word of English, they don’t know the culture, language and many have never been to school. With a teacher/student ratio of 15:1 and all the volunteer resources they have there is only so much the teachers can do.

So don’t assume that Not supporting illegal immigration makes you “part of the base” or an insensitive, selfish hating bigot or racist. I do support legal immigration. And with 65 million people in refugee camps, and people legally asking for asylum I think we can safely say there are more than enough candidates. We cannot save everyone, but should do our best with those immigrants willing to follow the process and follow the rules.

[Yppej]

We can afford plenty if we put our money in the correct places. Huge tax breaks for the rich could help a lot of people as could all the money we give in foreign aid.

No we cannot afford all the things people want. That is why we have a huge deficit. We are passing the bill on to future genetations.

And we certainly cannot afford to support every poor person who would like to live in the United States but does not have the skills or work ethic to do so at a self-supporting wage.

[LDAHL]

I find it interesting that this issue pops up just in time to use to "rally the base" and distract people.

It's great to have a horde of "others" approaching the border to really pep up the nationalists!

I have already heard October Surprise theories from both left and right. Personally, I think we are too quick to impose ideological patterns on everything that happens.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Being undocumented they have to work at low wages, or under the table which depresses legal wages and helps keep working people at the poverty level.

Few who talk about immigration ever talk about this: should immigrants be paid minimum wage and be subject to all other labor laws and protections? And with real and serious enforcement? I could see possible exceptions for agriculture, guest worker type programs, I think it could be worked out but that is only so much of the economy. But if everything becomes an exception ...

Of course I differentiate between legal immigrants who already have whatever protections anyone else does, illegal immigrants, migrants and refugees (if it's a refugee type program it might have to be accepted that not everyone will be able to integrate into the economy instantly and that yea something like kind of is a welfare program).

[Yppej]

You have to look at the payback period also. If you educate and otherwise support a teen migrant from El Salvador who never goes home but instead works and pays taxes for five decades, that's a pretty good investment. It's another story with my coworker's parents who will sit on their couch for three decades soaking up benefits.

And El Salvador is a drug war zone, Cambodia is at peace.

[pinkytoe]

Having grown up in south central Texas, illegal immigrants were just an integral part of my surroundings, so I never gave it much thought. Many families in my hood back then had a "wet" maid or lawn man who then brought over more and more family. Perhaps some legalized eventually but mostly not. I don't doubt that they learned to use our system to their advantage. I recall giving birth to DD in a ward full of Mexican women also giving birth - only they were all screaming in Spanish. My only negative thought back then was who paid their hospital bills. Times have indeed changed and many of the younger ones trying to cross may not have the strong morals and work ethic of their parents. Witness the rise of gangs in their own countries. Not a good thing to import. Some may overcome their past with the right guidance and education, but many will not. It is a mess for sure but ignored for so long, it is now hard to ameliorate.

[CathyA]

[QUOTE=pinkytoe;312161.................... It is a mess for sure but ignored for so long, it is now hard to ameliorate.[/QUOTE]

As is the case with so many things in the U.S. :(

[jp1]

Statistics show that immigrants, documented or not, are less likely to commit crime than native born Americans. Perhaps the young folks coming here from countries with gang problems are, for the most part, not the gang members but, instead, are trying to escape the gang violence.

[Teacher Terry]

We can afford to help more people if we repealed the tax breaks for the rich and cut down on foreign aid. Never before have I voted a straight party ticket except for this year. Democrats need to take control back and reverse these policies.

[Alan]

We can afford to help more people if we repealed the tax breaks for the rich and cut down on foreign aid. Never before have I voted a straight party ticket except for this year. Democrats need to take control back and reverse these policies.Most of the laws these policies are based upon are Democratic. What makes you think anything would be different?

[Miss Cellaneous]

It's a difficult issue, for sure. I wish we could have reasonable, humane laws that were upheld, with everyone in mind.

I have trouble with all of the increasing population.........no matter where it comes from. I'm a country person and see so much crazy development/traffic, etc. that never seems to end. I need space around me. I can go for days/weeks without talking to anyone. So I don't like the idea of any people constantly flooding into our country/state/county. Yes, our government makes some horrible choices in terms of where our money goes. I'm just very unhappy about what is happening in so many areas of this planet. It doesn't mean I'm not grateful for what I have, because I am. But on the other hand, I don't want to lose it either. I can feel sorry for others, while still not wanting to lose my way of life.

There is no answer to any of this. So even though I initially disagreed with UL on just focusing on my own little corner of the world, I guess that's what I'll do. Everything else seems futile to change. It's funny, when we bought this piece of rural property about 36 years ago, the seller advertised it as "A Little Bit of Heaven"........which it is, in a very rustic way. But it will probably be a city by the time I die. I will be glad to be leaving.

Anyhow.......I'm just overwhelmed with humankind and all the unfortunate choices that most of them seem to make.

One thing to consider is that the US birthrate is dropping. If we don't allow immigrants, in a few decades, there will not be enough workers to fund Social Security and Medicaid to the extent necessary for the number of seniors there will be. Google this--there are people who say we need immigrants more than we know.

No one issue can be debated in a vacuum. There are far spread ramifications to just about every decision the government makes.

[Alan]

One thing to consider is that the US birthrate is dropping. If we don't allow immigrants, in a few decades, there will not be enough workers to fund Social Security and Medicaid to the extent necessary for the number of seniors there will be. Google this--there are people who say we need immigrants more than we know.

No one issue can be debated in a vacuum. There are far spread ramifications to just about every decision the government makes.
We've been accepting over a million full time residents annually for years along with a hundred thousand or so refugees each year. Should we expect that to change?

[Williamsmith]

We've been accepting over a million full time residents annually for years along with a hundred thousand or so refugees each year. Should we expect that to change?

Apparently that’s not enough workers to fill all the positions Trump is predicting will be created by all the companies opening new factories in the US based on his tax cuts. At least, that’s what he just said in The Oval Office. He just wants a systematic merit based criteria for entry into the country and the workforce. Cheap labor is certainly something capitalists covet.

[Ultralight]

Cheeto got on the podium and said: "We give El Salvador and Honduras all this foreign aid money and what do we get for it? Nothing!"

Well, Cheeto. We don't give money to shit hole nations so they can give us stuff. We give it -- or we ought to -- because they are less fortunate and need some help.

Now, do I think we should endlessly hand over cash? No.

But think about Millionaire Next Door. If you give your kid tuition money this is a great investment in their future. If you buy them a Lamborghini for graduating from high school then you are an idiot and they soon will be.

What is the "tuition" of foreign aid?

[Miss Cellaneous]

We've been accepting over a million full time residents annually for years along with a hundred thousand or so refugees each year. Should we expect that to change?

From Wikipedia: "Since 2000, legal immigrants to the United States number approximately 1,000,000 per year, of whom about 600,000 are Change of Status who already are in the U.S." So of the 1,000,000, only 400,000 are new residents of the US.

From USA Today:" From Inauguration Day to Dec. 31 [2017], his [Trump's] administration accepted 29,022 refugees, the lowest number since at least 2002, according to State Department data." "That decline will continue in 2018 because Trump instituted an annual cap of 45,000 refugees a year, the lowest cap since Congress created the Refugee Resettlement Program in 1980. Presidents have the authority to unilaterally set the annual refugee cap, which has been as high as 217,000 under President Reagan and hovered between 70,000 and 80,000 under the Bush and Obama administrations."

[Alan]

From Wikipedia: "Since 2000, legal immigrants to the United States number approximately 1,000,000 per year, of whom about 600,000 are Change of Status who already are in the U.S." So of the 1,000,000, only 400,000 are new residents of the US.

From USA Today:" From Inauguration Day to Dec. 31 [2017], his [Trump's] administration accepted 29,022 refugees, the lowest number since at least 2002, according to State Department data." "That decline will continue in 2018 because Trump instituted an annual cap of 45,000 refugees a year, the lowest cap since Congress created the Refugee Resettlement Program in 1980. Presidents have the authority to unilaterally set the annual refugee cap, which has been as high as 217,000 under President Reagan and hovered between 70,000 and 80,000 under the Bush and Obama administrations."
So it looks like we're still taking quite a few immigrants each year, more than any other country in the world I believe. Good for us!

[Teacher Terry]

Cheeto is taking less than half of any other president in a time of great need. Ugh!

[ApatheticNoMore]

One thing to consider is that the US birthrate is dropping. If we don't allow immigrants, in a few decades, there will not be enough workers to fund Social Security and Medicaid to the extent necessary for the number of seniors there will be.

well what we actually need is globally dropping birth rates, anyone who has no or less children is making the globally responsible choice regardless of their reasons for doing so, so maybe temporarily you solve some problems (and create others) by moving people around, but long term, global birth rates need to drop.

Funding of SS and Medicare are just accounting tricks, they could be funded any number of ways, a need for people to do work because there is work that needs doing is one thing (probably work that needs doing at a price point where it's hard to get it), but funding SS and Medicare, fund it out of income taxes and the war budget, raise taxes, lift the cap on SS income, create money, whatever, there are any number of options.

[Alan]

Cheeto is taking less than half of any other president in a time of great need. Ugh!
Cheeto? hmmmm….

I believe we still take in more immigrants each year than any other country in the world as well as provide the greatest amount of funding for refugee centers in nations neighboring conflict zones.

[JaneV2.0]

Immigrants (including refugees) have always given more than they get. Worth remembering.

[Teacher Terry]

Sorry Alan but he is a disgusting human being. He brags that his immigration policy is designed to cause maximum pain for the families. Those children will have life long trauma from being separated from their parents. Not only that but some of those kids are being illegally adopted out when they have loving families. I have never before felt like our president was a embarrassment to the world. This man can barely string a coherent sentence together. He is giving the green light to people to be racist and violent. People of color are being verbally abused daily since trump has been elected. They feel empowered to no longer hide their racism. He is not a leader.

[Alan]

Sorry Alan but he is a disgusting human being.
Got it! Thanks for the explanation.

[jp1]

Interesting to note how many countries have larger raw numbers of refugees and even more striking how many have a significantly higher number per capita, than the US. And this is only through mid 2015. The numbers for more recent years are undoubtedly far more stingy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_refugee_population

[Williamsmith]

Cheeto got on the podium and said: "We give El Salvador and Honduras all this foreign aid money and what do we get for it? Nothing!"

Well, Cheeto. We don't give money to shit hole nations so they can give us stuff. We give it -- or we ought to -- because they are less fortunate and need some help.

Now, do I think we should endlessly hand over cash? No.

But think about Millionaire Next Door. If you give your kid tuition money this is a great investment in their future. If you buy them a Lamborghini for graduating from high school then you are an idiot and they soon will be.

What is the "tuition" of foreign aid?

The foreign aid money sent to a country like Honduras might as well be wired directly to the bank accounts of government officials. The ordinary Honduran apparently doesn’t get much of it. Which isn’t too surprising considering the current President is serving his second term even though the Constitution states that one term is the limit. Widespread corruption and voter fraud has been documented.

With our economy doing so well and business owners complaining they can’t find “slave labor” err ......willing employees, then welcome these people with open arms, give them citizenship and put them to work making iPhones, picking fruits and vegetables and whatever other menial work capitalists can find for migrants that Americans won’t stoop to. I’d say their making their way from Honduras on foot, semitrailer or boat for that matter qualifies them for citizenship more than being born here and sitting around in moms basement eating potato chips and playing war games on the internet all the while sucking up welfare benefits.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Cheeto is taking less than half of any other president in a time of great need. Ugh!TT, I just had to say I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE how you refer to Trump here. Just because I may have a few kind words for him regarding his take an issue in one of my recent threads, this doesn't mean I can't see him for what he is overall and I appreciate your humor here LOL. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

Sorry Alan but he is a disgusting human being. He brags that his immigration policy is designed to cause maximum pain for the families. Those children will have life long trauma from being separated from their parents. Not only that but some of those kids are being illegally adopted out when they have loving families. I have never before felt like our president was a embarrassment to the world. This man can barely string a coherent sentence together. He is giving the green light to people to be racist and violent. People of color are being verbally abused daily since trump has been elected. They feel empowered to no longer hide their racism. He is not a leader.Thank You, TT. You have summed up Trump in a much calmer and more coherent way than I can (I confess I do get rather intense regarding my activism) - you are dead on in my book and your points definitely get across. And I could not agree more with your last sentence - the man is no leader. Period. Unless one wants to lead first to third graders playing in a sandbox...….Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

Immigrants (including refugees) have always given more than they get. Worth remembering.And how soon America forgets this! One nice comment I have for our neighbors to the North - Canada doesn't seem to forget this, at least not as of yet. Rob

[Teacher Terry]

Now bombs have been sent to 5 prominent Democrats such as the Clinton’s and Obama’s. It will be interesting to see what disturbed people did this. I won’t be surprised if they are trump supporters. Just recently he was praising the senator that body slammed the reporter.

[Alan]

Now bombs have been sent to 5 prominent Democrats such as the Clinton’s and Obama’s. It will be interesting to see what disturbed people did this. I won’t be surprised if they are trump supporters. Just recently he was praising the senator that body slammed the reporter.The 'Blue Wave' seems to be petering out. Time to up the ante.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Now bombs have been sent to 5 prominent Democrats such as the Clinton’s and Obama’s. It will be interesting to see what disturbed people did this. I won’t be surprised if they are trump supporters. Just recently he was praising the senator that body slammed the reporter.I heard about the bombs being sent....and my take personally is that Trump may (indirectly, to be clear to the Conservatives here) be responsible. How so? By virtue of his giving the green light to excessive behavior. I realize that anything brought up in a court against him on this would not stick - but I do believe he is indirectly responsible for the abhorrent example he is setting as Chief Executive and Lead Spokesperson of America. Rob

[Teacher Terry]

Hopefully they will catch the person or people and the truth will be revealed. It may not be a trump supporter but I won’t be shocked if it is.

[Teacher Terry]

Absolutely Rob!

[gimmethesimplelife]

The 'Blue Wave' seems to be petering out. Time to up the ante.Alan, you are a grown man and I understand you are free to think as you wish and also with legal limits to post as you wish. Granted. That said, this is to me the most depressing and alarming post of yours I've ever run across. I don't see this as an up the ante tactic and before I start getting overheated here (I can feel my blood pressure spiking right now) I'm going to bail right here and now as you'all are familiar enough with the vein of my thinking to know what I would post in regards to this anyway were I to continue. But Good Day to you Alan, I mean this with no snark and you do get to think and post as you'd like to. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

Absolutely Rob!Thank You, TT. Rob

[Alan]

Rob, there appears to be at least 6 devices sent to high profile Democrats and the devices themselves had a 100% failure rate even though they were seemingly simple devices that anyone could put together successfully. To me, it looks more like a media event than an effort to harm the recipients, and if that's true, who benefits?

[Teacher Terry]

Alan, now you think democrats are behind it. Please-that is ridiculous. Probably just stupid bombers. Not sophisticated bomber as sent to wrong address and many misspellings.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Got it! Thanks for the explanation.It's an explanation that rings true to me and the overwhelming majority of people I interact with on a daily basis. TT and myself and far from alone in this line of thinking Alan, much as you are far from alone in being Trump friendly. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

Alan, now you think democrats are behind it. Please-that is ridiculous. Probably just stupid bombers. Not sophisticated bomber as sent to wrong address and many misspellings.TT. I agree that Alan's assertion here is ridiculous. I would add however that it will be interesting to see who is indeed responsible and what such person(s) believe in/represent. Rob

[Alan]

Alan, now you think democrats are behind it.
I didn't say that, but you can make your own assumptions.

[Alan]

It's an explanation that rings true to me and the overwhelming majority of people I interact with on a daily basis. TT and myself and far from alone in this line of thinking Alan, much as you are far from alone in being Trump friendly. Rob
You'd think I wouldn't have to say this but in the rational world, being non-emotional about your enemy doesn't make me your enemy's friend.

[jp1]

The 'Blue Wave' seems to be petering out. Time to up the ante.


Rob, there appears to be at least 6 devices sent to high profile Democrats and the devices themselves had a 100% failure rate even though they were seemingly simple devices that anyone could put together successfully. To me, it looks more like a media event than an effort to harm the recipients, and if that's true, who benefits?


I didn't say that, but you can make your own assumptions.

So what exactly did you say then?

[Alan]

So what exactly did you say then?
In a round-a-bout way I may have been suggesting that this seems to me to be a media event and we probably shouldn't assume, as Teacher Terry did, that it is likely the work of a Trump supporter. With less than two weeks to go before the most media hyped mid-term election in my lifetime, having people immediately jump to that conclusion may have been the ultimate goal.

[Williamsmith]

In the investigative arena, Occam’s razor (the simple solution tends to be the right one), would make one focus on a relatively uneducated, radical thinking, Trump supporter who probably has a MAGA sign about as big as a “Mail Pouch” ad on the side of a barn, posts often to online altright forums, submits letters to the editor of his local newspaper criticizing democratic politicians, has been seen wearing a “Hillary for Prison” t-shirt, watches Fox News from morning to night, listens to Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity back to back M-F, is a slob hunter, hero worships the military but couldn’t hit the broad side of his MAGA barn, has fingers stained with orange Cheetos and recently attended a Trump campaign rally.

In the political arena......it could be anybody.

[LDAHL]

In the investigative arena, Occam’s razor (the simple solution tends to be the right one), would make one focus on a relatively uneducated, radical thinking, Trump supporter who probably has a MAGA sign about as big as a “Mail Pouch” ad on the side of a barn, posts often to online altright forums, submits letters to the editor of his local newspaper criticizing democratic politicians, has been seen wearing a “Hillary for Prison” t-shirt, watches Fox News from morning to night, listens to Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity back to back M-F, is a slob hunter, hero worships the military but couldn’t hit the broad side of his MAGA barn, has fingers stained with orange Cheetos and recently attended a Trump campaign rally.

In the political arena......it could be anybody.

That’s a pretty detailed profile for a simple explanation.

I’m more comfortable with “some nut”.

[frugal-one]

I didn't say that, but you can make your own assumptions.

You need to quit watching Fox News and listening to the moron, Donald. He is probably behind it all so he can spew hatred.

[Williamsmith]

That’s a pretty detailed profile for a simple explanation.

I’m more comfortable with “some nut”.

Oh yeah, I left out....prior criminal conviction for “cruelty to animals.” Every profile has to have that.

[Alan]

You need to quit watching Fox News and listening to the moron, Donald. He is probably behind it all so he can spew hatred.
Ha Ha, that's actually quite funny, on so many different levels. Probably unintentional, but still. LOL

[JaneV2.0]

I'm sure our federal law enforcement agents will get to the bottom of this--if there are any of them left.

[JaneV2.0]

The 'Blue Wave' seems to be petering out. Time to up the ante.

I'm afraid it might--between Russian (and other) hacking and frantic efforts to suppress the vote (especially among minorities), we may not do as well as predicted.

[LDAHL]

You'd think I wouldn't have to say this but in the rational world, being non-emotional about your enemy doesn't make me your enemy's friend.

I would have thought that in a rational world someone who truly wished the Democrats ill would want to keep Clinton, Holder, Wasserman-Schultz and Waters alive and talking as publicly as possible.

[frugal-one]

Ha Ha, that's actually quite funny, on so many different levels. Probably unintentional, but still. LOL

I get the humor... but yet NOT! Sad when a person feels so disgusted by the "powers that be." I will truly be glad when this "reign of terror" is over.

[LDAHL]

I get the humor... but yet NOT! Sad when a person feels so disgusted by the "powers that be." I will truly be glad when this "reign of terror" is over.

Wouldn’t this really be directed at the “powers that wannabe”? None of the top tier Democrats seem to have been targeted.

[JaneV2.0]

When the reign of terror is over, our stature abroad will be diminished to an extent that we may never be respected again in the world. Our standing among all the respectable countries of the world has been tanking for years--health care, maternal deaths, education, wages, gap between rich and poor, racism. gun crime, homelessness...As Putin noted yesterday, we're no longer a world power; maybe Germany or some other country will pick up the mantle. Meanwhile our legislators are focused on obstruction and enriching themselves. I hope I live long enough to see this turn around, but if it doesn't, I guess I won't mind so much checking out.

[frugal-one]

Wouldn’t this really be directed at the “powers that wannabe”? None of the top tier Democrats seem to have been targeted.

The powers that be... are Trump and his other buffoons.

[iris lilies]

Ha Ha, that's actually quite funny, on so many different levels. Probably unintentional, but still. LOL
Come now Alan, remember that George Bush was responsible for the twin towers attack. I would think that Donald Trump could easily orchestrate something small like this though he probably could not pull off a twin tower attack, so stupid, so orange, you know.

[Alan]

Come now Alan, remember that George Bush was responsible for the twin towers attack. I would think that Donald Trump could easily orchestrate something small like this though he probably could not pull off a twin tower attack, so stupid, so orange, you know.I was just thinking yesterday that I couldn't remember as much hate and derision on these forums since the W years. Good times!

[LDAHL]

I was just thinking yesterday that I couldn't remember as much hate and derision on these forums since the W years. Good times!

It was a bracing dose of hatred and contempt. I remember all those people who were going to flee the country back then.

[Ultralight]

I remember all those people who were going to flee the country back then.
Moving to Canada is harder than you think, especially if you are American and unskilled.

If emigrating to Canada was easy, I would have done it.

[JaneV2.0]

Bush was partially responsible for 9/11 not because he flew the planes, but because he ignored warnings--including the PDB that clearly stated "Bin Ladin determined to strike in the US."

[iris lilies]

Moving to Canada is harder than you think, especially if you are American and unskilled.

If emigrating to Canada was easy, I would have done it.


Well no chit cherlock.

[Teacher Terry]

Bush is a genius compared to what we have now.

[LDAHL]

Moving to Canada is harder than you think, especially if you are American and unskilled.

If emigrating to Canada was easy, I would have done it.

Hmm... maybe we should look into something like that.

[Alan]

Moving to Canada is harder than you think, especially if you are American and unskilled.

If emigrating to Canada was easy, I would have done it.
I'm sure if you just walked across the border at some remote spot you'd be ok, Canada is well known for it's empathy. If you happened to be caught just tell them you're seeking asylum from a country where the women won't date you longer than a month or so and I'm sure they'll slap you on the back and give you a warm welcome. :welcome:

[frugal-one]

Bush is a genius compared to what we have now.

I agree.

[Yppej]

I have dual citizenship and choose to live in the US rather than Canada. There's a lot to be said for jobs and warmer temperatures.

[Williamsmith]

So I guess Trump is dead set on meeting the migrant caravan at the border with military personnel. This should be entertaining. Wonder how those tent cities are doing? Can we refer to them as ghettos without being accused of historical baiting?

Now I believe in giving each political party equal bashing. This problem didn’t just ooze up out of the jungle. The Obama/Clinton interventionist foreign policy destabilized that region a long time ago. And that foreign aid is just taxpayers money being transferred to the wealthy ruling families in that region as bribery to do what the US wants them to do.

So whoever funded the migration thought thought they would influence the outcome of the midterms. Did either party really benefit from this? All it did was gin up the base in each side.

Now, I’m not all mightier than thou. I sit comfortably behind a gated community for one reason. This is my stuff and I don’t want other people taking it. You think any of those migrants are going to find their way to a posh condo community or a wealthy neighborhood. No, the poor and middle class are going to get the short end of the stick. The public housing and welfare areas are going to absorb this. Which means, if you object to the military forcfully repelling this crowd, then you ought to have an extra room at your place and be ready to empty your 401k for medical expenses because by the time they get here they will need it.

The whole citizenship for baby’s born on American soil is an interesting issue. The only real weapon poor people have against a government set on eradicating them is the ability to reproduce.

[razz]

I'm sure if you just walked across the border at some remote spot you'd be ok, Canada is well known for it's empathy. If you happened to be caught just tell them you're seeking asylum from a country where the women won't date you longer than a month or so and I'm sure they'll slap you on the back and give you a warm welcome. :welcome:

Being a populist conservative, I will speak for Canadians and say "Er, no, go home".

[Teacher Terry]

Immigrants commit less crimes than citizens. They get jobs and work hard. We can’t let everyone in but we are at a record LOW number of people we are letting in. We can do better.

[Yppej]

Immigrants commit less crimes than citizens. They get jobs and work hard. We can’t let everyone in but we are at a record LOW number of people we are letting in. We can do better.

Not all of them. The ones who can and will work are fine. Chain migration is another story.

[Yppej]

Today my coworker was telling me about all the medical appointments her parents the nonworking brand new immigrants are getting. They are having every part of their body worked on at taxpayer expense. One thing on the list is colonoscopies.

Because I work for a living and have private insurance not Medicaid I had to fight to get my first colonoscopy covered. (First one is free under Obamacare but the billing was a months long nightmare.) Polyps were found which means any subsequent colonoscopy is not covered under preventive care and will cost me thousands of dollars in out of pocket costs. So I am not getting another one ever and am pretty upset the folks just off the boat get every procedure free. It's free for them, but not for me. My taxes are paying for everything medical they should have had done their whole lifetime but didn't because they lived in a Third World country.

We should take care of American citizens first.

[Williamsmith]

Trump has instructed the military that if they get pelted by the migrants with stones.....just consider them armed with rifles because rocks are just as deadly. I wish somebody would have told me this when I was getting all sorts of stuff thrown at me at a prison riot. I would have felt justified in shooting a few annoying SOBs. Water cannons work just fine. But hey, maybe a few drones with missiles might just solve the whole problem in an instant.

[Yppej]

I like the folks in the migrant caravan. They are on average young. Since they're traveling on foot they are pretty healthy. They can work a lot of years paying into Social Security to help keep my retirement benefit solvent. They are for the most part refugees not just economic migrants. I would welcome their asylum applications. I believe their contributions to the economy would exceed the costs to the taxpayers.

[jp1]

I like the folks in the migrant caravan. They are on average young. Since they're traveling on foot they are pretty healthy. They can work a lot of years paying into Social Security to help keep my retirement benefit solvent. They are for the most part refugees not just economic migrants. I would welcome their asylum applications. I believe their contributions to the economy would exceed the costs to the taxpayers.

I agree. But trump thinks they are all scary murders and criminals. At least according to his latest racist ad.

Not sure why he thinks they're going to throw rocks. But hey, gotta stir up the drama and fear somehow I suppose since it's not like the loser republicans actually have any good ideas to run on. Tax cuts for the super rich isn't popular. Trying to destroy health insurance for the sick isn't popular. Maybe lying about some future fantasy middle class 10% tax cut will work? but otherwise they don't really have much to show for all their efforts.

[Gardnr]

Polyps were found which means any subsequent colonoscopy is not covered under preventive care and will cost me thousands of dollars in out of pocket costs. So I am not getting another one ever .

Do you understand what polyps are and what happens if you don't get them removed?

Sorry, I'm in shock that this is your plan.

[Teacher Terry]

I am too. All of those turn into cancer. Once you get them they keep coming back. Your insurance company will only approve of a fraction of the cost so you won’t pay thousands. If your deductible is met you will pay even less. I have seen a bill for 3k and the insurance negotiatied down to 500 which I happily paid.

[bae]

I get free, and unfortunately mandatory, c-scopes from the fire department every year.

[JaneV2.0]

I've never had a colonoscopy, and probably never will.

According to an on-line source "up to 50 percent of polyps greater than two centimeters (about the diameter of a nickel) are cancerous."

[LDAHL]

I get free, and unfortunately mandatory, c-scopes from the fire department every year.

That’s is unfortunate! You should get them from a doctor, and just let the fire department check your smoke alarms.

[CathyA]

I get free, and unfortunately mandatory, c-scopes from the fire department every year.

Every year? That's ridiculous if you're not at risk.

[herbgeek]

You should get them from a doctor, and just let the fire department check your smoke alarms.

:D :D :D

[rosarugosa]

That’s is unfortunate! You should get them from a doctor, and just let the fire department check your smoke alarms.

Without a doubt the funniest thing I have read or heard all day!:laff:

[CathyA]

That’s is unfortunate! You should get them from a doctor, and just let the fire department check your smoke alarms.

:laff: But hey......they probably have most of the equipment. :~)

[Yppej]

From WebMD:

"Polyps are often non-cancerous growths, but some can develop into cancer. The two most common types of polyps found in the colon and rectum include: hyperplastic and inflammatory polyps. Usually these polyps do not carry a risk of developing into cancer."

There are risks with colonoscopies including perforation of the colon. These risks increase with age as tissues thin.

[Yppej]

I am too. All of those turn into cancer. Once you get them they keep coming back. Your insurance company will only approve of a fraction of the cost so you won’t pay thousands.

False and false.

Most polyps are not cancerous.

The insurance negotiated rates on my first colonoscopy were $900 for hospital charges alone, and there were also physician and laboratory charges.

[Alan]

I had a colonoscopy in August, there were two small polyps found and removed. The doctor gave me a clean bill of health and recommended I come back in 10 years.

[Teacher Terry]

The doctor that removed my MIL’s told me that with enough time they all turn into cancer. Looks like there’s a difference of opinion.

[Teacher Terry]

I was told web md notoriously wrong and that you should use Pubmed. It’s a site for doctors so much better medical information.

[Yppej]

Adenomas are another type of polyp that may turn into cancer but not always. I can't post links from my tablet, but was looking at the website for the American Cancer Society. They also confirmed other types of polyps that are not adenomas are neither cancerous nor precancerous. Are they reputable enough for you?

[jp1]

They removed four things during my colonoscopy a year ago. Personally i’m just glad the results werent shared on the evening news like ronald reagan’s always were.

[Ultralight]

Colonoscopies for all the migrants! Everybody gets a colonoscopy!!!!!!!

[Williamsmith]

Colonoscopies for all the migrants! Everybody gets a colonoscopy!!!!!!!

I agree! They should have to bend over just like the rest of us legal citizens.

[Ultralight]

Build a wall of proctologists!

[Yppej]

I agree! They should have to bend over just like the rest of us legal citizens.

You know what you guys are full of. Better start prepping.

[Williamsmith]

Trump backed off his suggestion that migrants be shot by the military for throwing rocks. Why not? He achieved his purpose of appealing to the ignorant racists in his voting block. That there will be some kind of conflict at the border at some point in time is not in doubt but not until after the midterms. Whether planned or not, Trump has used this to the benefit of the Republican Party by stoking fears that turning over the power to the Democrats would result in a wave of murderers, terrorists and gangs set to rape and pillage the honest hard working citizens of America.

The Democrats have to be asking themselves how they got on the wrong end of the stick again. Not only has Trump leveraged the caravan to his favor, he will probably reap profits from it for a long time to come and might even be able to parlay it into building that wall and beginning all the “winning” he promised a couple years ago. That winning will come on the backs of the very people who will make it possible. The ignorant poor and middle class. Meantime the wonderful tax cuts for the wealthy can continue and the gutting of the social programs won’t be opposed because hey, “We’re winning!”

And Trump will have plenty of volunteers for the military since the young poor will continue to be enticed by the opportunity to be part of the fun and games of spreading our brand of Democracy throughout the world. John Bolton and Mike Pompeo seem to be keen on regime change in North Korea and Iran. That will help fill the void of our withdrawal from Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan. Those three places are looking quite amazing after our decades long remodeling projects.

[Yppej]

Not until after the midterms is right. The migrants cannot walk 900 miles between now and Tuesday.

[CathyA]

I agree! They should have to bend over just like the rest of us legal citizens.

LOL!

[ToomuchStuff]

I agree! They should have to bend over just like the rest of us legal citizens.


Build a wall of proctologists!

I was thinking TSA agents.

You know what you guys are full of. Better start prepping.

Mexican water for all?

[ke3]

Bush is a genius compared to what we have now.

The pumpkin on my doorstep is a genius compared to what we have now.

[Teacher Terry]

Ke, too funny!

[jp1]

Apparently now that the election is over the caravan is less scary. The military is doing a drawdown of the troops there which will be done by christmas. And president bone spurs hasn’t mentioned them since the election.

[LDAHL]

I look forward to the heartrending stories, recriminations and demands for unspecific solutions when it arrives.

[jp1]

There will be no solutions. Not because they don't exist. The republicans even proposed some, but then took them off the table once they decided it was more important to try to make a president fail than act like adults. And besides, they get far more mileage out of the sad fear mongering to their base.