View Full Version : I'm so sick of political ads!!!!!
They're constant, one right after the other. "You're a liar"......."No, you're the liar".........".you're too far right" ........."No, you're too far left"......
Dang, I'll be glad when it's over. I think they're all having the opposite effect that these people are trying to have.
catherine
10-31-18, 12:50pm
Thanks for reminding me of another advantage to being in VT. Since Bernie is a shoe-in, there are no political ads on tv up here, except for a couple here and there for local legislators. If I were in NJ, I'd be getting a barrage of them. I certainly don't miss them.
SteveinMN
10-31-18, 1:10pm
On the morning news show, the ads run back-to-back-to-back. :help:
I'd mind these ads much less if they spent their time saying what their candidate wants to do instead of downtalking the other candidate(s) with out-of-context quotes and misleading statistics.
Teacher Terry
10-31-18, 1:12pm
Also sick of the phone calls. We don’t answer the phone at all. Can’t wait for this to be over.
And I get lots of texts ... yet another venue to irritate me.
Williamsmith
10-31-18, 1:55pm
Both parties are tied at the hip. It’s either an “elekey” or a “donphant”. A vote for either is a vote for the same. A vote for either is legitimizing a corrupt system. While everyone is busy choosing sides, they are busy planning how they are going to spend their money. When I see a politician leave office poorer than when he/she arrived.....then I will have found an honest politician. My US Congressman is a used car salesman with a net worth of 17 million dollars. His net worth when he entered office was around $400,000. He sold a lot of cars from his DC office I guess.
SteveinMN
10-31-18, 3:20pm
Citizens United. Just sayin'...
sweetana3
10-31-18, 3:53pm
We have continued to watch BBC America to get a more balanced view. We also either time shift and delete the commercials or mute them. I have stopped watching almost all American TV. Dont answer phone due to robo calls so I dont have to listen to political ones either. Mail is immediately tossed. We put our "already voted" sticker on our door and if anyone dares to ring the bell, I will ask if they can read.
Williamsmith
10-31-18, 3:54pm
Citizens United. Just sayin'...
SteveinMN, I read your posts because they are thoughtful, concise, open-minded, considerate of others views and usually right. I’ll second that ^
I am probably not going to vote on Tuesday. Is it the beginning of an opt out policy for me? Not sure. But Tuesday, I will protest. A great philosopher, intellect and a little bit of a musician is quoted,
“Government is the entertainment division of the military- industrial complex.” Frank Zappa
Can’t understand why no one ever took him seriously. Haha.
SteveinMN
10-31-18, 6:50pm
Thank you, Williamsmith! I have my moments. :)
Frank was well ahead of his time. And I can only imagine how he would address the current political state. At least there would be some humor about it.
I didn't get to early voting today but will tomorrow. I wish I felt I could opt out of the process entirely, but I can't. I certainly can understand the feeling, though.
I think there is a quite reasonable case to be made for ethical-non-voting.
iris lilies
10-31-18, 7:44pm
SteveinMN, I read your posts because they are thoughtful, concise, open-minded, considerate of others views and usually right. I’ll second that ^
I am probably not going to vote on Tuesday. Is it the beginning of an opt out policy for me? Not sure. But Tuesday, I will protest. A great philosopher, intellect and a little bit of a musician is quoted,
“Government is the entertainment division of the military- industrial complex.” Frank Zappa
Can’t understand why no one ever took him seriously. Haha.
I always say, go to the poll, get a ballot, and if none of the choices are worth voting for, drop your empty ballot in the box. To me, that separates you from the too-lazy-to-get-to-the-polls person.
Usually, though, there e is a local issue or candidate worth voting on.
Isn't there some point where attack ads just go in one ear and out the other? Hard to believe they are really effective except for a small group. Around here, I hear a couple of words over and over - radical and liberal. I made the mistake of using the word "progressive" around one of my neighbors and he went into a spiel about radical liberals. Not even sure what that means...but it seems like misuse of some good words.
Williamsmith
10-31-18, 8:32pm
I always say, go to the poll, get a ballot, and if none of the choices are worth voting for, drop your empty ballot in the box. To me, that separates you from the too-lazy-to-get-to-the-polls person.
Usually, though, there e is a local issue or candidate worth voting on.
I think most Americans are too busy listening to the noise of politics to make an informed decision about anything. It’s all just whipped cream, empty calories and fat heads. I have the luxury of slowing it all down, contemplating the fluff that is presented as fact, reading actual well constructed sentences, reasonable thoughts and footnoted theories. And when it comes to Federal Elections, at this point in the game, I feel voting only encourages them.
I think the patriotic thing to do is not associate with such silliness, refuse to condone a false democracy, exercise your right to civil disobedience and proudly become an active non-voter. Acknowledge that the illusion of voting is that you are making a difference and that if you don’t vote you don’t have a right to complain. When the truth is, the people who don’t vote have the most right to complain because it is the voters who elect the bastards who make all our lives intolerable.
What if they held an election and nobody voted? In this atmosphere, if anyone believes their vote will make a difference then they haven’t paid attention the the machinations of the two party political system. It’s like tossing out a hook with a worm on it into a dry lakebed and saying, “You can’t catch a fish, if you don’t have a line in the water.” And before anybody accuses anyone else of being too cynical, they ought to be prepared to explain just where the fish are.
So Im to believe that despite all the previous Democrats and Republicans that came before them, this time if I can just get my Democratic candidate in or my Republican to win....things will change. The real change would occur if the voter turnout were so low that it actually deligitimized the politicians. And by do so, it disarms the people (corporations) that fund them. I don’t vote the lesser of two evils anymore. Hitting a concrete abutment at 55 mph is no different than doing it at 75 mph. You are just as dead.
So, instead of voting......I think I’ll do something worthwhile. I think I’ll go to the polls and eat a pizza.
Teacher Terry
10-31-18, 9:14pm
I think it’s a terrible idea.
Williamsmith
10-31-18, 10:19pm
I think it’s a terrible idea.
You are right. I should really just have a salad.
Acknowledge that the illusion of voting is that you are making a difference and that if you don’t vote you don’t have a right to complain. When the truth is, the people who don’t vote have the most right to complain because it is the voters who elect the bastards who make all our lives intolerable.
That's somewhat-circular reasoning: "I don't vote because the people who do vote elect 'bastards'." You lose any opportunity to alter that outcome if you do not vote.
So Im to believe that despite all the previous Democrats and Republicans that came before them, this time if I can just get my Democratic candidate in or my Republican to win....things will change. The real change would occur if the voter turnout were so low that it actually deligitimized the politicians. And by do so, it disarms the people (corporations) that fund them. I don’t vote the lesser of two evils anymore. Hitting a concrete abutment at 55 mph is no different than doing it at 75 mph. You are just as dead.
I see your point about electing candidates who are largely variations of vanilla ice cream.
But hitting a concrete abutment at 25 mph is a lot different from hitting it at 55 mph. I, too, am no fan of electing people who don't represent those who voted for them, but, at these midterms, I'm okay with voting for gridlock and slowing down the nonsense.
What you really want is electoral reform. Repealing Citizens United and getting PAC money reined in in is a critical part of that, IMHO. Dissolving the Electoral College system -- maybe necessary once but now as helpful as tariffs for buggy-whip manufacturers -- has great value. Term limits could help (I don't agree with those who want those elected to serve only one term; I think there's value to some continuity, but the Pelosis and Hoyers and McConnells and Hatches should have moved out of the picture long ago). Ranked-choice voting and runoffs could help -- it possible for this country to elect someone with an actual majority of the vote, not just a plurality? (Maybe we need to keep trying until we find someone who actually can earn a true majority.) Making voting easier, limiting the length of campaigns; all these things would change the electoral landscape.
But removing oneself from the process -- especially if one chooses to not engage in changing the process -- is (again IMHO) an empty exercise and, frankly, just petulance.
I do like IL, I voted and knew about several items that I felt I understood and was clear on my vote. I did not vote on some of the weird amendments I didn't know anything about. I did read up on all the judges from a website that gave them ratings and voted to retain all of them.
Voting for the candidate I am not crazy about but still is better is okay with me. Once they are elected I will continue to push for things I feel are for the common good.
Williamsmith
11-1-18, 4:57pm
SteveinMN, you were doing so well too.
Quote,
“But removing oneself from the process -- especially if one chooses to not engage in changing the process -- is (again IMHO) an empty exercise and, frankly, just petulance.”
Permit yourself to consider further explanation from a childlike non voter.
Voting is not a moral or legal obligation. It is a right which one is free to claim or not. Whether one does claim it or not shouldn’t make him a target of derision. I could refer to your voting as obstinate and dissolusioned. Performing the same task over and over again the same way and expecting a different outcome. As if checking a ballot is somehow enriching the political process. The act of voting is more of a fetish than it is a legitimate effort to create change.
You all have read my posts enough to know that I am politically engaged. And I have been voting for many years. My abstention from voting has no impact on the election. It does not count as a vote for or against anyone. It is no different than a vote to abstain while being present for the vote. In other words, I abstain because I object to the political process as having been negated by corruption and deception. Is there a more powerful way to engage in changing the process than to refuse to acknowledge its legitimacy?
Teacher Terry
11-1-18, 5:52pm
Oprah just gave a great speech on why it’s so important to vote. People have fought hard and long for this right and some have died. To merely throw it away is unthinkable to me.
Here's an analogy that might sound like misguided reasoning, but bear with me.
Way back when, after The Population Bomb was popular,I was talking with a friend about people who limit families for environmental reasons. She said something along the lines of "People with a social conscience are exactly the people who SHOULD have more kids." Yes, that's faulty logic, but...
Maybe people who don't vote because of angst over the current system are exactly the ones who SHOULD vote.
Just sayin'. Consider Kant's Universal Law.
Williamsmith
11-1-18, 7:34pm
Terry and Catherine,
I don’t think it’s either appropriate or useful to try to shame people into voting. What if a voter finds all his/her choices objectionable? What makes a person who is completely uniformed but goes to the polls and votes ignorantly better than a conscientious non voter? Or how about a spouse or SO accompanying another to the polls and on the way there says, “Okay, so who are we voting for?” Oh yeah, it happens doesn’t it?
The right to abstain from voting should not carry with it a scarlet letter. You have a right to bear arms! Many people have fought and died for that right, yet I do not expect you to have a concealed carry permit and carry a gun with which to protect me and my family should a nut pull out a gun at the grocery. That’s because it is a right, not a duty. You may opt to not exercise that right without being called out for it. Oprah was wrong for shaming people who do not vote.
Perhaps you would be in favor of a law requiring that every citizen vote no matter how ignorant, uneducated, disinterested they are or objectionable they think the system is? Isn’t abstaining from voting a free speech action?
Its perfectly fine to have your own convictions. But I’m not throwing my vote away. Nobody can take my vote. It is mine to cast....or not as I choose.
Teacher Terry
11-1-18, 7:40pm
Definitely not in favor of making voting mandatory. Australia does this and I think it’s a very bad idea. Oprah’s speech was inspiring. I don’t think she was shaming people but rather encouraging them. Yes it is your right to cast or not.
Williamsmith
11-1-18, 7:59pm
Definitely not in favor of making voting mandatory. Australia does this and I think it’s a very bad idea. Oprah’s speech was inspiring. I don’t think she was shaming people but rather encouraging them. Yes it is your right to cast or not.
Terry, all you have to do is listen to the first 16 seconds......To paraphrase....”anyone who has an ancestor who didn’t have the right to vote and does not vote is dishonoring their family.”
https://youtu.be/2NJP40C5Ufg
Terry, all you have to do is listen to the first 16 seconds......What's the significance of the phrase "women people"?
Teacher Terry
11-1-18, 8:58pm
I didn’t see the first part of her speech so missed that but I agree. When my 89 yo mom was dying from cancer she went to vote with her walker that had a seat so she could rest while she voted. So it’s pretty important in my family.
SteveinMN
11-1-18, 10:52pm
Williamsmith, feel shamed or branded if you choose to. I'm simply stating my opinion, as others here state theirs.
Many years ago I read a comment that resonated deeply with me: "Democracy quits working when the citizens quit working at it. Then they become subjects."
Voting is a critical element of how our republic runs, whether one calls it a "right" or "duty" or a "PITA". The choices stink? There must be one candidate you feel better represents you and your interests better than another candidate. Feel your vote is fungible because of the Electoral College or Citizens United or because two parties much like each other pretty much run the show in the U.S.? Understandable. There's plenty I don't like in our current political system (that goes well beyond individuals and party platforms). Certainly someone who has considered this course of action has pondered just why they believe the system is broken.
But I believe citizens have a responsibility to participate in improving how things work for all of us. No, it's not a Constitutionally-delineated right or responsibility. Lots of things people do to make things better are not spelled out anywhere. In my opinion, opting out of voting in the belief it will make a provocative statement on the current political climate won't be any more visible to the process than the statement someone else will make by choosing to stay home and watch reruns on TV rather than vote. If your intent is to make voting more meaningful, I don't believe abandoning the process registers as working to improve it. Again, my opinion.
Just as an aside, we're out of town this weekend, so I may not be able to participate on this board again till Monday. Not ignoring anyone...
Definitely not in favor of making voting mandatory. Australia does this and I think it’s a very bad idea. Oprah’s speech was inspiring. I don’t think she was shaming people but rather encouraging them. Yes it is your right to cast or not.
After reading both your and WS's comments I'm interested in why you thing mandatory voting is a bad thing. I haven't spent any time thinking about it but honestly I'd rather have everyone express their opinion than the current alternative where the republicans try to make it tough for people to vote if tehy are likely to vote the "wrong" way. Neither alternative is ideal but one is certainly better than the other.
flowerseverywhere
11-2-18, 5:45am
I love all the energy I am seeing from young voters. The Parkland high school activists are doing a great job, and all over the country early voting is very high. I have always voted and I hope this early introduction will spur the young to become more involved and continue to vote in every election. Despite its flaws, the more people that go to the polls, the better and more representative our officials are.
The ads here in IL are awful and constant, especially with a hard fought race for governor and atty general. When I watxh the evening news on WGN, I think all I see are political ads. Same on the radio. I’ve taken up NPR and BBC Radio (online) just to avoid the ads. Can’t even watch a YouTube video without the political ads!
Williamsmith
11-2-18, 8:29am
Where do the insidious political ads come from? They are repetitive and they come in the mail, are broadcast on the radio, internet and television. No one politician has the resource to make this happen, The politician is just the frontman. Call it the Deep State, the economic elite, the small ruling class or the “oligarchy”. But they determine the policy not the large majority of voters. Even when the community of voters is united for a certain change, they don’t get it unless it is approved by the powers behind the politicians.
In fact, getting anything changed is like pulling teeth. So even the wealthy influential people have about an even chance of getting things altered. The poor and middle class, an ice cubes chance in hades.
I imagine those who would consider requiring everyone to vote would also create a pretest of sorts that would show a persons knowledge of the candidates, the system and a proper respect for the sanctity of the vote. Then each person would be required to display a sticker with a flag with the words “I Voted” or better yet a purple ink stained thumb.
Im am glad that voting is a right not a duty. That makes the nonvote, a powerful statement.
Terry and Catherine,
I don’t think it’s either appropriate or useful to try to shame people into voting. What if a voter finds all his/her choices objectionable? What makes a person who is completely uniformed but goes to the polls and votes ignorantly better than a conscientious non voter? Or how about a spouse or SO accompanying another to the polls and on the way there says, “Okay, so who are we voting for?” Oh yeah, it happens doesn’t it?
The right to abstain from voting should not carry with it a scarlet letter. You have a right to bear arms! Many people have fought and died for that right, yet I do not expect you to have a concealed carry permit and carry a gun with which to protect me and my family should a nut pull out a gun at the grocery. That’s because it is a right, not a duty. You may opt to not exercise that right without being called out for it. Oprah was wrong for shaming people who do not vote.
Perhaps you would be in favor of a law requiring that every citizen vote no matter how ignorant, uneducated, disinterested they are or objectionable they think the system is? Isn’t abstaining from voting a free speech action?
Its perfectly fine to have your own convictions. But I’m not throwing my vote away. Nobody can take my vote. It is mine to cast....or not as I choose.
I certainly don't intend to shame you!! Your points are well taken, and of course it's your choice to vote or not. My point that I don't consider you ignorant, uneducated, or disinterested. We need informed voters who care about the world at large beyond their own self-interest. How do we cultivate and support the world we want to see? Voting is only one way, to be sure. And you're right. No matter what we do, maybe the outcome would be the same old stuff.
As you know, I posted about my own conundrum about voting in NJ (which has been negated now because of a situation necessitating our extended stay up here beyond November 6--and it's too late for an absentee ballot). I really liked the Green Party candidate you suggested, who of course has a snowball's chance in hell of winning. But it would be my own statement. At the same time, I would want to count myself among those who are trying to keep one party from the majority in the Senate and House. I think that's a reasonable start.
Yet, even my vote in NJ would have been a symbolic gesture because DH and I regularly cancel each other out, and we would have done so in these midterms. So I'll just sit up here and watch the show next Tuesday.
Citizens United. Just sayin'...
Freedom through censorship!
It sounds tempting, when I see one candidate’s ads claim the other guy wants your mother to die of cancer, while he claims the first guy just can’t do enough for child molesters.
I don’t blame scheming oligarchs for that. I blame voters dumb enough to be influenced by it. But even though the First Amendment presupposes a certain level of voter intelligence that may not exist, I think we should keep it unredacted. What can I say. I’m an optimist, and I approved this message.
I would no more forfeit my right to vote than I would forfeit my control of my finances. Not voting is saying that the you are not weighing in on how your tax dollars will be spent. IMO that encourages the corruption because those in office are satisfied that their chicanery will be overlooked or ignored.
My vote says, I want this person to represent me because they will handle their civic duties as I would. Not voting says, hey do whatever you want, it's all the same to me. And that is especially concerning for hard-fought rights of women and minorities which always seem to be on the knife-edge of being taken away by whichever extreme politicians gain a majority in office.
I think there is a quite reasonable case to be made for ethical-non-voting.
My husband has stopped voting. He would enjoy talking with you about this idea.
Teacher Terry
11-2-18, 12:43pm
I am against mandatory voting because people would be mad and just vote for anyone without any thought. I don’t see that as helpful.
Miss Cellaneous
11-2-18, 12:44pm
I vote because I feel I can't complain about the government unless I do. And I also won't listen to complaints about the government unless the complainer has voted. You don't participate, you don't get to complain, in my book.
We have two state constitutional amendments on the ballot this year, one which I support and one which I would have supported had it been better written. As it stands, if it passes, it will be a huge mess.
There are several local positions we have to vote on. Judging from the number of signs, we are in the middle of a fiercely contested battle for County Treasurer. On the other hand, there are a few County positions where one person is running uncontested.
And my district has a open seat in the US House of Representatives this year.
Next year, we will be electing an all-new School Board and Mayor. And a Governor.
There's more reasons to vote than the mess in Washington, DC.
catherine
11-2-18, 12:52pm
My husband has stopped voting. He would enjoy talking with you about this idea.
I'm also interested in this idea. I consider myself a pragmatic idealist, and an optimist, and I'd like to hear more about ethical non-voting. How does non-voting on principle change things for the better? Asking sincerely.
I am against mandatory voting because people would be mad and just vote for anyone without any thought. I don’t see that as helpful.
I think mandatory voting is evil. Mandatory voting ultimately requires the use of force to achieve compliance.
If someone ethically chooses not to vote, and voting is mandatory, presumably the first step is a fine. If that person refuses to pay the fine, at some point armed police will enter their life. If that person resists the armed police, they will shoot that person dead.
I am unwilling to kill someone to force them to vote.
Teacher Terry
11-2-18, 1:26pm
Exactly Bae!
I think mandatory voting is evil. Mandatory voting ultimately requires the use of force to achieve compliance.
If someone ethically chooses not to vote, and voting is mandatory, presumably the first step is a fine. If that person refuses to pay the fine, at some point armed police will enter their life. If that person resists the armed police, they will shoot that person dead.
I am unwilling to kill someone to force them to vote.
I doubt it would be so breathlessly dystopian here. It would probably work more like the original Obamacare requirement to buy health insurance.
Williamsmith
11-2-18, 3:20pm
Think outside the (ballot) box. Voting is perhaps the least effective political activity for change. Do something that will bring real change. It doesn’t take much effort to vote, that’s why people are so defensive of it. What’s it take to get that patriotic little sticker...drive to some local place, stand in line a little and make a choice for the lesser of two evils. Frankly, I don’t want to give my implied consent to anybody who won’t represent me anyway.
Somewhere, someone must have the wherewithall to invent a gizmo which could be given to each person who turns in their ballot, and that could be attached to a tv or remote which would block campaign ads
Does anyone remember the Silence = Death slogan regarding AIDS?
It came about because it became apparent that with a president who would not even utter the word AIDS for many months, along with an indifferent citizenry, the AIDS activists had to force the point that not taking a stand really meant you agreed with the status quo. And the status was that thousands of young people were dying. Being silent meant you were okay with that.
My point is that you have the luxury of declining to vote if the status quo is serving you well. Unfortunately, it's not that way for many millions of people whose very lives depend on a tiny number of office-holders. These fellow citizens need your vote to help elect people who will take things in the right direction. When I see schools crumbling, roads not being repaired, necessary health care denied, environmental gains being erased, etc. I cannot look away and pretend it doesn't matter.
Williamsmith
11-2-18, 10:04pm
Does anyone remember the Silence = Death slogan regarding AIDS?
It came about because it became apparent that with a president who would not even utter the word AIDS for many months, along with an indifferent citizenry, the AIDS activists had to force the point that not taking a stand really meant you agreed with the status quo. And the status was that thousands of young people were dying. Being silent meant you were okay with that.
My point is that you have the luxury of declining to vote if the status quo is serving you well. Unfortunately, it's not that way for many millions of people whose very lives depend on a tiny number of office-holders. These fellow citizens need your vote to help elect people who will take things in the right direction. When I see schools crumbling, roads not being repaired, necessary health care denied, environmental gains being erased, etc. I cannot look away and pretend it doesn't matter.
Your arguement might hold some water if politicians campaigning didn’t lie, if they didn’t roll their sleeves up to fight for what’s right on the campaign trail and immediately upon election start doing nothing or worse, the exact opposite.
I would be glad to sell my vote to you so you can have twice the impact your one vote has. How much would you be willing to pay me for the ability to double your voter impact? Yes, that’s exactly how much it’s worth. By all means vote every chance you get. Just don’t pretend that a person who doesn’t vote is any less important.
ToomuchStuff
11-3-18, 1:48pm
I thought you were dead George?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVJI3HHsWyg
catherine
11-4-18, 10:56am
Interesting article about why some people aren't voting.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/americans-will-head-to-the-polls-in-a-week-heres-why-some-wont/2018/10/30/58ff25ea-db95-11e8-b732-3c72cbf131f2_story.html?utm_term=.7ee833f6c505&wpisrc=nl_ideas&wpmm=1
"I am a registered independent who hasn’t voted since 1992 because I refuse to support the corrupt bipartisan system. I will not give a mandate to the lesser of two evils. It is clear that politicians seek power as a steppingstone to corporate board positions and/or K Street lobbying jobs..."
"Because my simple vote cannot adequately express the rage, fury and contempt I feel for those already in government, as well as those who seek to replace them. The system is carefully optimized to care for those who already have; the have-nots will always have to fend for themselves."
"In the grand scheme of things in my life, the decisions that politicians make do not really affect my daily life. Every politician is the same, so what does it matter? They are going to make decisions on issues dependent on what their donors and what the party want — not on what the constituents want. We do not make any actual changes."
"I don’t vote because the winners of most races I’m eligible to vote in are predetermined, due to gerrymandering, the electoral college and the overall heavy political imbalance of the state. (I tell people from elsewhere that Maryland leans so far to the left that even our crabs are blue.) In reality, I have no more say in who my congressional representative or my U.S. senators will be than my neighbors in D.C. have in choosing theirs. Voting in such a system is not only a waste of time; it also perpetuates a system of anti-democratic elections."
I love the ad written by Richard Linklater for Beto O'Roarke (though the ad has been disavowed by O'Roarke--who doesn't take PAC money)--the actor says it all: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1O1FihbeMEI
I have no problem with someone glorying in the virtue of their principled irrelevance, so long as they are willing to abide by the decisions of those of us willing to sully ourselves with participation in an imperfect system.
Most political ads are background music to me. If they're too offensive, I mute them. I find them much less offensive than the near-constant stream of "Ask your doctor is Abidabilumib is right for you!"
Our mute button has the letters worn off. We mute every ad, every sports commentator and i would mute more than that, but there are two of us watching TV.
Williamsmith
11-4-18, 6:56pm
Interesting article about why some people aren't voting.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/americans-will-head-to-the-polls-in-a-week-heres-why-some-wont/2018/10/30/58ff25ea-db95-11e8-b732-3c72cbf131f2_story.html?utm_term=.7ee833f6c505&wpisrc=nl_ideas&wpmm=1
"I am a registered independent who hasn’t voted since 1992 because I refuse to support the corrupt bipartisan system. I will not give a mandate to the lesser of two evils. It is clear that politicians seek power as a steppingstone to corporate board positions and/or K Street lobbying jobs..."
"Because my simple vote cannot adequately express the rage, fury and contempt I feel for those already in government, as well as those who seek to replace them. The system is carefully optimized to care for those who already have; the have-nots will always have to fend for themselves."
"In the grand scheme of things in my life, the decisions that politicians make do not really affect my daily life. Every politician is the same, so what does it matter? They are going to make decisions on issues dependent on what their donors and what the party want — not on what the constituents want. We do not make any actual changes."
"I don’t vote because the winners of most races I’m eligible to vote in are predetermined, due to gerrymandering, the electoral college and the overall heavy political imbalance of the state. (I tell people from elsewhere that Maryland leans so far to the left that even our crabs are blue.) In reality, I have no more say in who my congressional representative or my U.S. senators will be than my neighbors in D.C. have in choosing theirs. Voting in such a system is not only a waste of time; it also perpetuates a system of anti-democratic elections."
I suppose you already have figured out that I have adopted every one of those reasons why I am not voting Tuesday.
Williamsmith
11-4-18, 7:02pm
I have no problem with someone glorying in the virtue of their principled irrelevance, so long as they are willing to abide by the decisions of those of us willing to sully ourselves with participation in an imperfect system.
In our current political state of affairs , voting is to a democracy as a fork is to soup.
I suppose you already have figured out that I have adopted every one of those reasons why I am not voting Tuesday.
Yeah, kinda. ;)
In our current political state of affairs , voting is to a democracy as a fork is to soup.
I think that if you are waiting for the perfect candidate representing the perfect party to fill your bowl for you, you will be waiting a very long time.
There's always something to pique my civic interest--a voter-generated initiative, or perhaps stark fear. :0! There are a lot of serious issues at stake. I can't imagine not voting; I signed up the minute I could.
I don't for a minute believe in that "both sides do it" BS, but I do agree with Steve--we have to get big money out of the picture--talk about asking for corruption.
ApatheticNoMore
11-5-18, 11:20am
I'll vote but I get why people are sick of it. Initiatives put on by special interest. At this point billion dollar bond initiatives put on by special interests. Having to decide the whole of state bond financing (I don't fricking know - it's completely irrational as there seems no prioritization there and a state can't actually run infinite debt - the Feds maybe can - but not a state). Tax measures or less dishonest policy initiatives I don't mind voting about.
And then candidates that aren't even bothering to show any interest in the job (they are the equivalent of falling asleep in the job interview) because they have no real competition. No I'm not going to vote for you just because you are there. Act like you actually want the job and care about the public, at least pretend if nothing else.
ApatheticNoMore
11-5-18, 11:40am
It doesn’t take much effort to vote, that’s why people are so defensive of it. What’s it take to get that patriotic little sticker...drive to some local place, stand in line a little and make a choice for the lesser of two evils.
Of course that's NOT what it takes, it takes at least some minimal research, at the very least seeing the measures on the ballot (where you have initiatives at least) those who one supports support (for example seeing who the paper has endorsed if one has any trust in it, or the league of women voters, or you want to see if sander's organization has weighed in or etc.) and voting that ticket if one is too lazy to do anything more. Or trying to figure out the ballot oneself by reading the guidebook, arguments and rebuttals, although that's harder as many iniatives are downright dishonest and it takes some guidance to see through it. That's minimum due diligence if one is too lazy to do anything else.
It's often more effort than I want to put in. That's more effort that it takes to show up at some protest (which are largely though not entirely useless these days). True you probably have to drive further for the protest and that is annoying. Less than some things, ok yea going to prison for your political beliefs takes more effort, noone really argues otherwise. You can go to city council meetings, they will often be conveniently scheduled so you can not possibly make them and commute and earn a living, but ...
Teacher Terry
11-5-18, 1:06pm
I spent a lot of time researching the candidates and all the other questions on the ballot.
I'm fascinated with Trump's campaign strategy these past few days. Honestly--I think his strategy is stir up as much anger and hate as possible. He is even turning down opportunities to talk about the broader-reaching positives of his administration: the economy. He said that talking about the economy is "boring." This only means one thing: he truly is a genius marketer. He knows that fear is a more potent motivator than pleasure. And he is stirring the fear pot.
Statistics about a low unemployment rate? Big deal. Increase in GDP? So what. Consumer confidence index? Meh.
But talk about "those people" invading my space, my culture, and threatening my worldview--THAT'S a message that resonates.
Now he's adding fuel to the fire and having a campaign rally with Rush Limbaugh. Ya gotta give him credit. He knows his base.
He's broken every rule. We'll see tomorrow night if it paid off for him this time.
iris lilies
11-5-18, 6:06pm
I'm fascinated with Trump's campaign strategy these past few days. Honestly--I think his strategy is stir up as much anger and hate as possible. He is even turning down opportunities to talk about the broader-reaching positives of his administration: the economy. He said that talking about the economy is "boring." This only means one thing: he truly is a genius marketer. He knows that fear is a more potent motivator than pleasure. And he is stirring the fear pot.
Statistics about a low unemployment rate? Big deal. Increase in GDP? So what. Consumer confidence index? Meh.
But talk about "those people" invading my space, my culture, and threatening my worldview--THAT'S a message that resonates.
Now he's adding fuel to the fire and having a campaign rally with Rush Limbaugh. Ya gotta give him credit. He knows his base.
He's broken every rule. We'll see tomorrow night if it paid off for him this time.
It’s not just Rush Limbaugh it’s Sean Hannity as well. Here, in a battleground state for a Senate seat where the two candidates are exactly even in the polls.
ApatheticNoMore
11-5-18, 11:20pm
there is stuff that probably is positive. I'm not a free trader, Trump's protectionism is likely not to be the best thought out but Dems positions on trade have sucked so those moves I think could be positive.
The economy is better than the depths of the recession, that much is likely true (it is probably no better than say in 2014 though as more jobs were actually added then I believe, so let's not get completely crazy here. But better than the recession sure).
They were closing down the unemployment offices around in here and the state in general. Rumor was there were two reasons and only one is actually positive: 1) better economy 2) less and less people qualifying for unemployment due to more and more gig work (not even contract work true gig work) like Uber. People with NO safety net if things get worse. So the economy kinda but probably not as much as all that.
But yea he's running on racism and prejudice and fear of the other. That's not even a smear, that's just a cold hard fact.
Maybe someone has mentioned this, but I haven't read through all the thread. But I can't believe (well, yes I can), that when trump stumps for some republican candidate, he says "A vote for them, is a vote for ME".......me, me, me, me, me,......it's all about him. He sickens me.
Only a few hours. And I'm listening to iPod music so I'm actually done:cool:
Williamsmith
11-6-18, 7:42pm
I can only speak for my very limited perspective but I believe Trump will lose the House of Representatives. And the Senate will be a squeaker. The record numbers of voters is a good sign for Democrats. Trumps appeal to fear and hate and anger only goes so far. The millennial vote is beginning to show itself. Healthcare is and always has been the most concerning issue. Immigration and the economy a long second and third. I think Trump has hit his apex. Trump hooked himself at the hip to Limbaugh and Hannity. THey are the most polarizing conservative entertainers in the country. I think it hurt him as it was seen as a last ditch effort to save the House. I wanted to sit it out......you can’t break a bad habit.........I VOTED!
I wanted to sit it out......you can’t break a bad habit.........I VOTED!
OMG, you DIDN'T! :0!
I really wish I could have stood in the supposedly long lines. I'm a spectator by circumstance. AND I was further devastated to learn after-the-fact that the local Democrats had a Get-Out-the-Vote rally ONE MILE FROM MY HOUSE last Saturday: And Bernie was there as well as Christine Halquist!!! And this is a small place. I looked at the pictures and I think there were maybe 30 people there. I don't know how I missed it. I guess I have to sign up with the local Democrats to stay in the know.
Anyway, I hope you feel comfortable with your decision, WS.
So glad you voted, WS! Our little town was hopping with voters. We may go to watch election returns at the theater in town that Michael Moore gave to the town, so he'll probably be there. He was showing Fahrenheit 11/9 all week for free--really, really good.
Catherine, when the part of the movie came where he interviewed Bernie, both my husband and I broke down crying. I worked so hard during that election; the theft of the election really broke my heart.
Williamsmith
11-6-18, 8:25pm
For some reason this bothered me.
“As the USA gets ready to vote in our own election next week, I hope everyone back home exercises their precious right to vote," he wrote. ". .....Major Brent Taylor killed in Afghanistan.
Father of seven. I couldn’t dishonor one of his last wishes ....once it came to my attention.
Catherine, when the part of the movie came where he interviewed Bernie, both my husband and I broke down crying. I worked so hard during that election; the theft of the election really broke my heart.
I haven't seen the movie yet, but I'm sure I'd have an emotional reaction, too.. He definitely had that election stolen from him. I'll never forget the look on his face at the Democratic National Convention, after he had that "back room" meeting with the Clintons, and then turned his delegates over to her.
We sent friends from our Bernie group to that convention, we raised money for them to go and sent them to represent all of us, and they came back with horror stories of what happened to them there, and how they were treated, and the duplicity that happened there--they were lifelong Dems, and they were shocked.
I won't forget the look on his face, either.
Williamsmith
11-6-18, 9:40pm
Nothing would please me more than to see Lyin’ Ted Cruz lose. It would signal the change of Texas from red to blue clearly as a result of blue millenials migrating to Texas from other parts of the country looking for jobs. Kind of ironic.
In our current political state of affairs , voting is to a democracy as a fork is to soup.
Some soup can be eaten with a fork. Campbell's Chunky Soup, for example. You may not get every drop though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4vF-Xy-KFs
Williamsmith
11-6-18, 9:59pm
Some soup can be eaten with a fork. Campbell's Chunky Soup, for example. You may not get every drop though.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4vF-Xy-KFs
Perhaps this years chosen utensil is the ubiquitous Boy Scout “spork.” :+1:
IL is now stuck with J.B. Pritzker. We are bloody fooked. He wants a mileage tax, raising the state income tax, and who knows what else. Scumbag took toilets out of a Chicago mansion to save $330K in property taxes (I don’t think he ever lived there). He was caught and paid it back.
Williamsmith
11-6-18, 10:31pm
IL is now stuck with J.B. Pritzker. We are bloody fooked. He wants a mileage tax, raising the state income tax, and who knows what else. Scumbag took toilets out of a Chicago mansion to save $330K in property taxes (I don’t think he ever lived there). He was caught and paid it back.
Hes worth 3.5 billion. $330,000 is pocket change.
Perhaps this years chosen utensil is the ubiquitous Boy Scout “spork.” :+1:
I had no idea the boy scouts were into sporks. I thought that was just a taco bell thing. But I suppose it makes sense. Sporks are quite practical. Perhaps ultralite should replace his forks and spoons with them to reduce the number of things he owns while maintaining the same level of functionality.
It’s the principle of the thing not the amount. He was caught on tape with Blago, too, trying to get the Senate seat that the Great Savior (insert sarcasm) vacated when he went to DC.
Williamsmith
11-6-18, 10:48pm
Wisconsin....Governor. Walker needs to take a walk.
SteveinMN
11-6-18, 11:02pm
Glad to see you voted, Williamsmith.
I voted yesterday so I could get my mom in and out before the crush of people. It was touching to see a steady stream of people from all backgrounds and statuses marking their paper ballots.
Tonight I am not paying any attention to election results. What will happen will happen (perhaps with some lawsuits along the way, State of Georgia) and, at least tonight, I won't have to subject myself to breathless projections based on minuscule portions of the voting populace or inane commentary on TV while they kill time waiting for elections they can call.
Williamsmith
11-6-18, 11:13pm
I think that the politics of fear, ignorance, mudslinging, anger and stupidity has made voters search for a way to return civility to elected offices. There is a general yearning for a better decorum for political discourse. I hope this is a signal for the return of the pendulum.
iris lilies
11-6-18, 11:23pm
Congrats on IL continung its tradition of crooked (usually Democratic) governors. You guys are blessed.He is speaking rightnthis very moment, covered here because IL is just a few miles away.
IL is now stuck with J.B. Pritzker. We are bloody fooked. He wants a mileage tax, raising the state income tax, and who knows what else. Scumbag took toilets out of a Chicago mansion to save $330K in property taxes (I don’t think he ever lived there). He was caught and paid it back.
Nothing would please me more than to see Lyin’ Ted Cruz lose. It would signal the change of Texas from red to blue clearly as a result of blue millenials migrating to Texas from other parts of the country looking for jobs. Kind of ironic.
Periodically, the media anoints a messiah who will bring Texas into the light. Victor Morales. Wendy Davis. Julian Castro. Now "Beto". They gush about charisma, they publish glam photos, they bring in pop singers and ship in planeloads of cash. We hear way too much about pink sneakers and skateboards.
Once again, we see the limits of hype.
Ultralight
11-7-18, 9:11am
Periodically, the media anoints a messiah who will bring Texas into the light. Victor Morales. Wendy Davis. Julian Castro. Now "Beto". They gush about charisma, they publish glam photos, they bring in pop singers and ship in planeloads of cash. We hear way too much about pink sneakers and skateboards.
Once again, we see the limits of hype.
Texas is a lost cause.
Williamsmith
11-7-18, 9:23am
Periodically, the media anoints a messiah who will bring Texas into the light. Victor Morales. Wendy Davis. Julian Castro. Now "Beto". They gush about charisma, they publish glam photos, they bring in pop singers and ship in planeloads of cash. We hear way too much about pink sneakers and skateboards.
Once again, we see the limits of hype.
That “Beto” performed at the level he did and made Cruz uncomfortable right up through last night should be evidence enough of a changing Texas electorate. A Democrat, with a DUI on his resume, a penchant for calling out the NRA in a state where the AR-15 is the official state firearm, and where progressive thought brings labels of “communism.” “Beto” should have been lucky to win his home district let alone actually show. The relationship between Trump supporters and Cruz fanboys couldn’t be more troubled. It took Cruz way too long to support Trump in his Presidential race. When the millenials Of Houston, Dallas, Fort Worth and Austin begin to grow roots and sprout families.....the Conservative Christian Right will begin to rust.
Ultralight
11-7-18, 9:32am
The blue wave was a joke.
When the millenials Of Houston, Dallas, Fort Worth and Austin begin to grow roots and sprout families.....the Conservative Christian Right will begin to rust.I agree the Christian demographic will almost certainly corrode but Conservatism typically thrives in a mature, stable environment.
That “Beto” performed at the level he did and made Cruz uncomfortable right up through last night should be evidence enough of a changing Texas electorate. A Democrat, with a DUI on his resume, a penchant for calling out the NRA in a state where the AR-15 is the official state firearm, and where progressive thought brings labels of “communism.” “Beto” should have been lucky to win his home district let alone actually show. The relationship between Trump supporters and Cruz fanboys couldn’t be more troubled. It took Cruz way too long to support Trump in his Presidential race. When the millenials Of Houston, Dallas, Fort Worth and Austin begin to grow roots and sprout families.....the Conservative Christian Right will begin to rust.
You Beto believe it! A demographic wave will sweep Texas, and people determined to make Texas a California style utopia will realize their manifest destiny. Because as we know, all young people think alike.
The blue wave was a joke.
Perhaps an example of the folly of believing your own propaganda. Some of the brighter lights on the left were trying to manage expectations a little toward the end.
On the plus side for the Democrats, they’ll now be in a position to subpoena everyone who ever gave Trump a pedicure. They should put on quite a show between now and 2020.
iris lilies
11-7-18, 10:04am
I am happy with the results of the election for Congress. Our
Claire Bear was defeated, and the House and Senate are controlled by opposing parties.
I am comfortable with gridlock. I like that Claire is gone.
I am happy that Whitmer and Stabenow won, very happy!
SteveinMN
11-7-18, 10:09am
The blue wave was a joke.
Huh?
The House of Representatives will go blue in January; the Republicans picked up only two seats in the Senate. The Republicans lost seven governorships. As Williamsmith posted, someone with the history and influence of Ted Cruz should have swatted away Beto O'Rourke like a fly at a picnic; he could not. Scott Walker -- a Trump "success story" -- will be leaving the Governor's office in Wisconsin. Sam Brownback (and his supply-side economics "experiment") in Kansas has already been sent packing.
Do not expect the nation to turn fully blue in one election cycle -- there is still a lot of orange in the water. There is still a solid core of voters who do not believe that the establishment in either national political party is representing their interests so they're willing to try something different. In the last Presidential election the only different choice was Trump. Both parties ignore the changes in the electorate at their own peril (and future). This isn't over, by a long shot.
iris lilies
11-7-18, 10:24am
Huh?
The House of Representatives will go blue in January; the Republicans picked up only two seats in the Senate. The Republicans lost seven governorships. As Williamsmith posted, someone with the history and influence of Ted Cruz should have swatted away Beto O'Rourke like a fly at a picnic; he could not. Scott Walker -- a Trump "success story" -- will be leaving the Governor's office in Wisconsin. Sam Brownback (and his supply-side economics "experiment") in Kansas has already been sent packing.
Do not expect the nation to turn fully blue in one election cycle -- there is still a lot of orange in the water. There is still a solid core of voters who do not believe that the establishment in either national political party is representing their interests so they're willing to try something different. In the last Presidential election the only different choice was Trump. Both parties ignore the changes in the electorate at their own peril (and future). This isn't over, by a long shot.
I think these changes can be ascribed as much to “throw the bums out” as to any particular party love. Cleaning house, sweeping out the Swamp, (state houses have swamps, too!) is what we saw in the last election. That is what we will see in future elections. Pundits who analyze elections love parties but the people want change. Please do not ask me what that “change” should accomplish ‘cause I do not know.
Looking at it from the other perspective, it was nowhere near the 2010 debacle inflicted on the Democrats. Despite being outspent, trashed by the media and with a singularly unpopular president, they limited the damage to pretty much a normal midterm for the party in power.
Williamsmith
11-7-18, 11:09am
In my opinion, Trump took a slam dunk and turned it into a brick. With an economy as robust as the economic figures pretend to be, where was the love? All sentient beings and most critical thinkers have sniffed Trump out for the huckster he is. In two years a lot can happen now that the House is poised to torture him with subpoenas and investigations. His quick start is going to stall. The only thing left for him is to start a good old fashioned armed conflict overseas. Nothing like building more bombs to kickstart an economy. Wall Street is a bubble ready to burst in spectacular fashion. Pleny Of Trump quotes to find during the Presidential campaign where he acknowledges that.
gimmethesimplelife
11-7-18, 12:01pm
At least the political ads are over. For some time now. Good riddance. Rob
I think the challenge for the Democrats over the next two years will be establishing what they stand for. We already know what they are against.
If they surrender to the temptation of two years of Kavanaugh Kraziness, they may gratify the media but disgust many voters. The open presidential field will present many opportunities for infighting, as they try to decide where they fall on the spectrum from the Democratic Socialist philosophy of the Berniecrats to the Caged Capitalism ideology of Senator Warren to whatever it is Joe Biden believes this week. Do they double down on the identity politics thing, or promise to rob from the rich in the traditional manner? It can’t be as simple for them as “noun-verb-pre-existing-condition”.
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