View Full Version : Just seems normal now, in the most horrible way.
Ultralight
11-8-18, 8:09am
Apparently 13 are dead in a mass shooting.
https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/california-shooting-intl/index.html
What seems normal now to me is that there are quite a few very angry, mostly male and very detached humans in our midst. I was thinking about Cathy A's description of the man behind the meat counter spouting off his hatreds or my neighbor doing the same. When did we start hating each other so much and why?
dado potato
11-8-18, 11:01am
Normal or not, gun violence has reached disgusting proportions.
Giffords.org is part of a movement to deal with gun violence as a preventable cause of death and debilitating injury. In the recent mid-term elections there were 129 candidates whom they endorsed based on the candidate's public statements on the issue. 88 (68%) of those candidates were victorious.
giffords.org
Speaking of the election, David Hogg, a vocal survivor of the Parkland FL shootings, told the New York Times, We know that this is the start, that it's going to be a long road.
there is a domestic violence organization in Vermont called The Project Against Violent Encounters.
http://pavebennington.org/
I really was struck by that name--I think violence is a continuum, and I want to work for peace at all levels--I think we start with how we speak to each other, how we treat each other, places like here, on the forums, or in our personal lives. If we can work to avoid violent encounters at all levels, I think this kind of gun violence will become much less common.
I think we all have a part to play in avoiding violent encounters, and from a grassroots level, can make the world less violent.
Chicken lady
11-8-18, 11:18am
Last year we had four students expelled for behavior I would classify as “early warning signs for disassociated shooter”.
but the thing is, I don’t understand how anybody thinks that improves the situation. It’s like the skit about the damaged oil tanker that was “towed out of the environment”.
It is kinda normalized for me now, I am not sure if that is a horrible thing to share but it is honest. I work close to Columbine HS and my daughter was at the Aurora Theater shooting, so I am reasonably close to a couple big ones. I still strongly believe in doing some deep research on this, looking for ways to build community, and being honest about gun laws. It will still take a lot of time but we are making moves this week at least.
Make no mistake, this is normal America now. It will take a lot to affect this.
Teacher Terry
11-8-18, 11:36am
CL, too bad the students weren’t offered mental health services. I don’t know what it is going to take for this country to wake up and follow the lead of other countries that don’t have this problem. So sad.
Chicken lady
11-8-18, 11:41am
I don’t know what happened to them. We don’t offer “mental health services”
i know at least one was told that if he saw a qualified psychiatric counselor and we were allowed to speak to the counselor about our concerns and the counselor cleared him to return, he could come back. But he never came back.
i know one parent threatened to sue us. Because we got law enforcement involved. I don’t know if we were sued.
Teacher Terry
11-8-18, 11:58am
The school should have given their parents referrals to mental health resources. The school counselor should see this as part of her job or another employee if you don’t have a counselor.
Ultralight
11-8-18, 12:03pm
It is so normal I think most people just skim over the headlines and don't give it a second thought.
It is standard procedure to have services available. We just had a training by our safety and security who explained the whole process from active shooter scenarios all the day down to early evaluation and prevention in elementary school. In our district it is very relevant (home to more than one shooting). There are teams who are getting more trained all the time and resources that are always trying to keep up. CL are you in a public school?
...
Speaking of the election, David Hogg, a vocal survivor of the Parkland FL shootings, told the New York Times, We know that this is the start, that it's going to be a long road.
But it's a good, strong start!
Teacher Terry
11-8-18, 12:33pm
CL, works in a private school.
Teacher Terry
11-8-18, 12:34pm
My friends are very worried about the shootings and worry about their grandchildren.
It is standard procedure to have services available. We just had a training by our safety and security who explained the whole process from active shooter scenarios all the day down to early evaluation and prevention in elementary school.
That seems to also be the case in the public school districts in this county.
Chicken lady
11-8-18, 12:39pm
Actually, legally we aren’t a school at all. Legally all of our students are homeschooled and their parents have full responsibility for their education. Legally attending our classes is exactly the same as attending a swim class at the ymca - you can call it gym on your records, but it’s not “school”.
and legally we are just as qualified and entitled to offer mental health referrals as your average ymca swim program.
we have a counselor. I believe she has some professional training and credentials. My personal opinion is that she is very qualified to handle paperwork. We had a history teacher who was amazing with the kids. After she finished her MS she moved on to a non-poverty level job with health care. She still comes by a couple hours a month to help with a program she started and kids wait for her in the hall before and after.
Thank you CL, I am impressed you have a counselor considering your school status. You have the primary purpose of being safe for all the students who are attending, and if a child is too much for what you offer then I agree it is responsible to not allow them to attend.
Also anyone is able to call in a social services report and then it can be followed up on. I know I have made a fair number of calls and they do offer the families support, counseling, services etc. Social services is not there to just take kids, I have only had one student who was removed and then step-dad went to jail so it was more than justified. My point is that all of us reading are able to make a social services report, not just those who are mandated reporters. You can also make concern calls to a school district if you know they are enrolled. This is information to share, and can really make a difference if you have a child you are concerned about being homicidal or suicidal or on that track.
This country has many good things about it, but lately, I've begun to be disgusted about it. The good of the whole is no longer important.
Well, let’s see. This was in CA, which has some of the strictest gun laws in the country. There is registration for all firearms. The guy supposedly had a .45 caliber Glock handgun with an extended mag. I believe high cap mags of any sort are illegal in CA.
He was interviewed by a police crisis intervention team and they determined it was not necessary to hold him in a mental health facility in April.
Chicken lady
11-8-18, 3:03pm
We have worked with public services before.
one kid ended up being an astonishing success story. I still feel happy every time I see him in the hall. (Dad went to rehab. Then we gave dad a job, which he used to get a better job 2 years later.)
Williamsmith
11-8-18, 11:52pm
All shootings are a symptom of a larger problem than gun laws and mental health screenings. It took us a long time to get here. We are a violent people. We teach violence, idolize violence, respect violence, worship violence. And we medicate ourselves so that we can tolerate more of it. It’s a difficult task to evaluate a person who knows you have the power to take their freedom away in a spit second. They suddenly become reasonable and friendly. An involuntary commitment will often take two officers an entire shift or longer to accomplish. And often a physician will determine they are not an immediate threat to themselves or others. It’s like chasing your tail. We’ve blasted off the launch pad and there is no turning back. Get used to it.
Teacher Terry
11-9-18, 1:48am
I don’t want to get used to it. I want us to solve the problem like Europe did.
As others have said, there's mental health problems around the world, but we're still the only country with this level of mass shootings. What's the difference? We are awash in guns, and as WS said, we are a country saturated in violence. This is also despite the fact that we incarcerate more people per capita than the rest of the world.
So yes, we need greater access to mental health care and I'm okay with adjusting the law to include more involuntary holds if needed. Start with reallocating some of that prison budget to preventative services. But it's not the only answer.
We're a country that rewards bullying and "to hell with you" rugged individualism, exports more weapons and wars than any other, promotes for-profit prisons, and refuses to guarantee health care, because it's "socialism." We need to rethink our "exceptionalism." IMO.
dado potato
11-9-18, 11:16am
Year-to-date 11/9/2018 nationally:
12,504 deaths due to gunshot, of which
571 were children age 0-11
2,431 were teens age 12-18
… and...
24,284 injuries due to gunshot.
The above death toll does not include approximately 22,000 annual suicides accomplished with guns.
There have been 307 incidents of mass shootings, as of the 313th day of the year 11/9/2018
For a listing of incidents of gun violence that occurred in last 72 hours, see...
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/last-72-hours
We're a country that rewards bullying . . . and refuses to guarantee health care, because it's "socialism." We need to rethink our "exceptionalism." IMO.
Yes, yes, this.
It seems to me we've sent a clear message that, as a country, we don't care about people.
I hope we, as a people, are better than that.
dado potato
1-30-19, 10:29am
The State of New York has enacted 6 gun control bills since last November. Both the Assembly and the Senate are majority Democrat, as is Governor Cuomo. Likely there will be court challenges to the new laws.
In 2017 there were 772 deaths due to gun violence in NY.
The bills provide for:
A gun buy-back program in the State of New York,
a ban on bump stocks,
"red flag" authority for police to impound guns belonging to individuals whose behavior is disturbing or threatening, as reported by family or school,
prohibition of teachers carrying firearms in schools,
extension of the waiting period before buying a gun, for those who fail the immediate background check...
In multiple other states gun control bills have been introduced. Time will tell which bills will become law, and in which states.
ToomuchStuff
1-30-19, 12:08pm
The State of New York has enacted 6 gun control bills since last November. Both the Assembly and the Senate are majority Democrat, as is Governor Cuomo. Likely there will be court challenges to the new laws.
In 2017 there were 772 deaths due to gun violence in NY.
The bills provide for:
A gun buy-back program in the State of New York,
a ban on bump stocks,
"red flag" authority for police to impound guns belonging to individuals whose behavior is disturbing or threatening, as reported by family or school,
prohibition of teachers carrying firearms in schools,
extension of the waiting period before buying a gun, for those who fail the immediate background check...
In multiple other states gun control bills have been introduced. Time will tell which bills will become law, and in which states.
There is currently a case that is going to court, involving NY law transporting firearms (restrictions there of). I am off to work so no time to find it now.
gimmethesimplelife
1-30-19, 12:37pm
It seems to me we've sent a clear message that, as a country, we don't care about people.
I hope we, as a people, are better than that.I heard this message undeniably loud and clear the Summer of 1975 when I was 8 years old. It's definitely a message America sends at full blast to all but the most wealthy, other than for a few victories here and there such as expanded Medicaid
Rob
Well, apparently it really IS normal now. No one even bothered to come to this thread and mention the five women that got executed in a bank the other day in Florida until I'm doing so several days later.
Yes--white male domestic terrorists have been killing women at an alarming clip lately.
I've read that most of them have a history of misogyny and/or domestic violence.
I guess being an incel makes you, er, testy.
gimmethesimplelife
2-2-19, 1:40pm
Well, apparently it really IS normal now. No one even bothered to come to this thread and mention the five women that got executed in a bank the other day in Florida until I'm doing so several days later.You know what? You are absolutely right. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
2-2-19, 1:41pm
We're a country that rewards bullying and "to hell with you" rugged individualism, exports more weapons and wars than any other, promotes for-profit prisons, and refuses to guarantee health care, because it's "socialism." We need to rethink our "exceptionalism." IMO.Plus whatever number the national debt stands at the second I post this. What, something around 20 trillion? Rob
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