View Full Version : Winter holidays at school.
I am just irritated,
I am at a new school and they are getting things decorated like they do often. The entire teacher's lounge is Christmas, The copy room is Christmas. The books for share between teachers are 100% Christmas. Not even a variety of winter themes/books/etc. I have not seen this in awhile, the places I have worked have been more of a variety I think. It is just in the teacher area, I am wondering what classrooms will be like.
I have a bulletin board outside of our space and I am changing it to the winter theme. I have some color copies of favorite winter children's books to put up. I have a variety of snowflakes in blues and whites. I am also going to put up a mountain scene and some winter sport images (since we are in Colorado). It is going to be very nice,
Teacher Terry
11-16-18, 4:26pm
It should be against the law to decorate before thanksgiving:)). I also think that it shouldn’t just be Xmas stuff up because not everyone celebrates it.
mschrisgo2
11-16-18, 7:52pm
I'm surprised, ZG. For the last many years (8-10?) we have not been allowed to have ANY Christmas as part of Winter in the public schools in California. Even the concerts could not have any "Christmas" music, not even Jingle Bells for the kinders anymore. I always wonder when our schools will reach some reasonable balance- ? Good for you, for planning a more inclusive "winter."
I always had my students write about their Favorite Winter Holiday, only about 20% of them wrote about Christmas. There was a lot about Thanksgiving, seeing cousins and grandparents, a lot about winter birthday parties, and lots of snow trips.
My last school had choir concerts with a variety of music, Christmas, Hannukah etc. It was comfortable because the holidays were not treated like we were all the same, but that culturally most of us know about Christmas and Hannukah, etc. There were people I knew were Jehovah's witnesses and they were pretty comfortable, very few times they felt they couldn't participate. One didn't do choir but it is optional and the choir director was very up front about what types of music they would be singing. I do know the one school in my former district that was a large percentage Muslim and immigrant asked the school to do no holidays so they respected that.
I am happy about the board I am working on. The focus on great children's books seems to be my theme this year. My assistant is Jewish and I am Buddhist so very aware of the differences. I also know several families are Jewish and often talk to Joey about holidays or culture. My best friend when I was in 3rd grade was Jewish so I always did holidays with his family. I don't really bring up that I am Buddhist but it is not a secret. I guess it just really surprises me, and I feel a little awkward now.
We celebrate Yule in this household, and, well, the festivities probably aren't appropriate for "civilized" schools.
https://throwbackthorsday.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/cordeswildejagd.jpg
Zoe Girl
11-16-18, 10:16pm
Can I come to your holiday bae? Pretty sure it is more exciting than mine
I think everyone should put up what they celebrate. If I say Merry Christmas to someone and they say Happy Hanukkah, terrific. or Kwanza, or Happy Holidays.
As for me, it will always be Merry Christmas. Mutual respect is most appropriate.
I don't get bent out of shape about it. As long as the decorations aren't religious, just general secular Christmas, good to go in my book for a public school. I send a card that says Merry Christmas out to everyone, but it's a photo card with pics of me diving. If people get their nose bent out of shape about that, that's their problem.
I do think some school districts do go too much the other direction. A friend of mine told me a few years back that her kids' school had a winter program that included holiday songs from multiple faith traditions except Christianity. New principal who thought that was just the ticket. I was told enough parents raised a ruckus that it never happened again, even parents from other faiths raised concerns about it.
JaneV2.0
11-17-18, 10:35am
Or Diwali, this time of year. Or Santa Lucia Day. There are winter festivals of all kinds, so I figure "Happy Holidays!" covers them all. I don't care what holiday greeting others use.
This is an emotional issue for many. i respond to each as it seems appropriate and let the rest go. Should there ever be an opportunity to raise concerns about how other rituals are being celebrated, i would indicate an interest in some diversity.
ZG, you have no history at this school so do not know what has been discussed and dealt with in earlier years or the consequences and reasons for now doing what they are doing. If you make assumptions about them, you will probably be in error. Celebrate winter scenes etc as you are doing indicating your joy in the time of year. Christmas trees, Santa, etc are all pagan-based so there is some diversity there already.
FWIW, I celebrate with Christian thought but use the 30" choir kids that my DH made me 48 years ago, several green arrangements with large illuminated candy canes, a wreath and a little reindeer on my front entry table with colourful balls on his back resting on a Merry Christmas cloth.
I was getting annoyed at the commercialism of the whole season and then let it go as I alone am responsible for my reaction to this. I prefer to contribute joy, peace and harmony.
Zoe Girl
11-17-18, 11:53am
To be clear personally and professionally are really different for me. Personally I accept any greetings, cards, gifts with the spirit they were intended. If someone says Merry Christmas then I respond the same. If I know someone's practices I will focus on that. If I know nothing I will say Happy Holidays.
However in school there are some common standards, with variation of course, and that is a separation of church and state. I think it is a lot to try and cover all the traditions and holidays personally so I like my winter theme. However I really have not seen so much Christmas in a school in a very long time so it is throwing me off. And I do realize I am making an unconscious judgement. I know that this can spark a lot of reactions so I want to share what is happening for me. My judgement is that these are people who will like me as long as they think i have certain things in common with them, however I can't assume they will continue to like or accept me. It is not that they are mean people or that they don't like me but finding out this religious difference sometimes makes people really uncomfortable. There have been times when someone has had no context for me other than knowing I would go to hell. I am pretty much like everyone else and just want a fair shot at being liked.
Can you practice letting it go? See it as a big two month challenge to be tolerant to something that you don't approve of? Just let it go and ignore it, rather than dwelling on it and getting upset by it and creating narratives where people will not like you because of your religion?
It sounds like it's been a really good job and a nice place. It sounds like the place has made a value judgment that is different than your own. Can you rise above it and tolerate their differing viewpoint?
Zoe Girl
11-17-18, 12:27pm
To be clear this was just starting a conversation, it is not something that is taking over my thoughts too much. I am just wondering about how other people may see it. I am not thinking too much about whether or not people like me. I value a lot of connection so that is where this is hard, I can be silent, tolerate, step back, or be open to an opportunity where I can bring something up and then build better connections.
However when this general subject has come up before there is a strange thing, I am trying to explain it but it is hard. It is like encouraging a more PC, inclusive way of doing things somehow is backwards to me. When I see that the person/s who are in the less dominant group simply want to be included and welcome.
T
However when this general subject has come up before there is a strange thing, I am trying to explain it but it is hard. It is like encouraging a more PC, inclusive way of doing things somehow is backwards to me. When I see that the person/s who are in the less dominant group simply want to be included and welcome.
I don't understand what you are saying here--am not following you?
JaneV2.0
11-17-18, 12:38pm
I live in an area where people seem refreshingly unconcerned about others' religions and I like it that way. I've never been called out for not having one.
I don't think of Denver as a rabidly Christian metropolis, but I have no basis for thinking that.
Zoe, to be specific, what do you call “too much Christmas?” Are we talking manager scenes and the wise men, or simply Christmas trees and Santa?
I guess what squicks me these days is how political Christmas has become. It seems as if you say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" you get branded as an enemy of America.
ApatheticNoMore
11-17-18, 1:29pm
well some say at some point everything became culture war ...
(probably for very cynical reasons)
Okay I am not being clear it seems. And it is not something I am very upset about, just opening a conversation honestly.
Basically I was trained to not bring religion into schools and publicly funded institutions. That means to me and based on years of work and experience that either there are not religious type references or a solid effort to include a variety. This has been my experience since my elementary schooling in the 70's. I have not seen an entire display of Christmas only decorations, maybe people don't realize this? I have educated my staff every single year on religious projects in school, and it has not been a big deal. Just a training point.
It has never been a big deal, however the last couple of years I have seen more negativity overall. It really threw me off to hear things like I shouldn't do any version of Christmas because I was not properly Christian, or see the upset over a coffee cup or Happy Holidays, or being seen as oversensitive because I am just going ahead with making more people comfortable. Honestly it feels more like projection because I was fine.
iris lilies
11-17-18, 3:05pm
I guess what squicks me these days is how political Christmas has become. It seems as if you say "Happy Holidays" instead of "Merry Christmas" you get branded as an enemy of America.
But no one here is saying that, and some people here even embrace your Yule event.
Today I am annoyed by faux victims created by overstated causes. Dont annoy me, please and thank you.
If whatever one celebrates includes lights and winter greenery, I will come to your celebration. I personally I am not interested in angels and nativities and heaps of sugary lardy sweets and piles of cheap crap from China.
My grandsons public school in central Phoenix doesn’t do any holidays. No parties for the kids either. They have fall break, winter break, and spring break. I like how it’s secular and let’s all the religion up to the home environment.
But no one here is saying that, and some people here even embrace your Yule event.
Today I am annoyed by faux victims created by overstated causes. Dont annoy me, please and thank you.
.
I think I agree with you, I don't celebrate all the holidays other people do. It has not been a problem. If I go to a store that does not have what I need then I don't shop there. If they have lots of of items such as Christmas that I would not buy, I don't care. So why does anyone feel they are being treated badly because I say Happy Holidays like I have forever, or if a winter cup is not in your preferred colors. From talking to my Jewish friends and families they adapted a long time ago. A joke my assistant told me was Judaism started X thousands of years ago, China started 1,000 years later. Those were the dark years. (they go out for Chinese food on Christmas since they don't celebrate).
...
If whatever one celebrates includes lights and winter greenery, I will come to your celebration. I personally I am not interested in angels and nativities and heaps of sugary lardy sweets and piles of cheap crap from China.
I think you would like Diwali (I know I would), which features lights and Indian feasts.
Diwali is a wonderful holiday, there is a definite theme of lights.
In the cold wintry climate where we live now, much is made of Christmas or winter holiday decor, which I think has to do with people yearning for lights. Down south in South Carolina and Georgia, not much decoration went on. It was really nice; I enjoyed the laid back approach. A wreath with magnolia and a ladys apple, maybe a spiced pomander, and a blooming Christmas cactus, and call it a day.
But the Yankees in the wintry climes up here do a bunch more and I really enjoy the lights in the snow, very appealing. So I guess it is cultural that way. when i'm up here, I enjoy the holiday decor. Down home, I enjoyed not having to do it, or just making sure my Christmas cactus was blooming.
[QUOTE=Tybee;314850]In the cold wintry climate where we live now, much is made of Christmas or winter holiday decor, which I think has to do with people yearning for lights. Down south in South Carolina and Georgia, not much decoration went on. It was really nice; I enjoyed the laid back approach. A wreath with magnolia and a ladys apple, maybe a spiced pomander, and a blooming Christmas cactus, and call it a day.
But the Yankees in the wintry climes up here do a bunch more and I really enjoy the lights in the snow, very appealing. So I guess it is cultural that way. when i'm up here, I enjoy the holiday decor. Down home, I enjoyed not having to do it, or just making sure my Christmas cactus was blooming.[/QUOTE
I think that you have hit a really important point. My mother was nuts about Christmas and it was fun to watch her excitement and joy. Was she especially religious in any way, no, but she loved festivities that were fun, loving and giving. For her, it was cultural and I don't think that I ever realized that until now so thanks for the insight, Tybee.
iris lilies
11-17-18, 5:31pm
Dwali is probably ok, the Desi students at Wash U here put on a theatrical performance each year. But Holi has always fascinated me. What, you throw “color” at each other? Has a different meaning in the ‘hood here. I like better the idea of becoming blue and pink during Holi.
I think there are a number of versions of Christmas celebrated or decried by various elements.
There is Merchandising/Potlatch Christmas, a time we can put a price tag on love and friendship.
There is Social/Entertainment Christmas, a time we can celebrate through parties and television specials.
There is the religious holiday, a time some few of us celebrate as the conquest of death by love despite the substantial body of contrary evidence.
There is political Christmas, a time we can signal our various concepts of virtue and highlight our differences by taking offense at other people’s taking offense at practices most of us don’t genuinely care much about anyway.
There is Diversity/Cultural Appropriation Christmas, a time we explore other winter holidays to display our cosmopolitanism and eclectic tastes for others to admire.
God bless us, every one.
JaneV2.0
11-20-18, 12:21pm
I think there are a number of versions of Christmas celebrated or decried by various elements.
There is Merchandising/Potlatch Christmas, a time we can put a price tag on love and friendship.
There is Social/Entertainment Christmas, a time we can celebrate through parties and television specials.
There is the religious holiday, a time some few of us celebrate as the conquest of death by love.
There is political Christmas, a time we can signal our various concepts of virtue and highlight our differences by taking offense at other people’s taking offense at practices most of us don’t genuinely care much about anyway.
There is Diversity/Cultural Appropriation Christmas, a time we explore other winter holidays to display our cosmopolitanism and eclectic tastes for others to admire.
God bless us, every one.
Only you could find something to curl your lip at in "exploring other winter holidays." Heaven forfend that anyone should enjoy a variety of seasonal celebrations without turning them into a symbol for resentment politics.
Zoe Girl
11-20-18, 12:34pm
Hmm, I think I will classify myself as personally celebrating because it makes my family really happy, and I can relate to the message. I don't need to be that person who says they can't join family/friends because I don't have all the same personal beliefs. So I go to Christmas events, answer Merry Christmas, attend Hannukah, ask people about their holidays. I share about mine as they come up (we just had a Katina and it was amazing). I am not concerned about the cultural appropriation part, I never thought anyone was going to admire me! I have been doing this since elementary school, but if someone thinks that of me that is there problem. The only people who have thought that of me generally already had a lot of assumptions about me already.
However I very strictly keep that out of school. I say winter break and holidays to everyone. With students I don't know I say 'family' instead of mom or dad.
Only you could find something to curl your lip at in "exploring other winter holidays." Heaven forfend that anyone should enjoy a variety of seasonal celebrations without turning them into a symbol for resentment politics.
It looks like you're firmly in the Political Christmas camp. :D
JaneV2.0
11-20-18, 12:48pm
It looks like you're firmly in the Political Christmas camp. :D
As I said above, I couldn't care less how others wish me good cheer during the holiday season; I've been saying "happy holidays" as long as I can remember. It's not the lefties that made a fetish object of "merry Christmas."
The original post left out the "Balkanization Christmas," where some stake out cultural molehills to defend vigorously, consequently missing opportunities to relax and enjoy the festivities.
Teacher Terry
11-20-18, 1:04pm
We usually have a Polish Xmas eve and my DIL cooks. That’s important to her. Xmas day I make a main course and people bring salad, dessert, wine. Any of our kids are welcome to join also. It varies yearly in who can attend. No focus on gifts but just being together and having fun. 2 of the people who regularly attend are Jewish.
We usually have a Polish Xmas eve and my DIL cooks. That’s important to her. Xmas day I make a main course and people bring salad, dessert, wine. Any of our kids are welcome to join also. It varies yearly in who can attend. No focus on gifts but just being together and having fun. 2 of the people who regularly attend are Jewish.
Expansion is usually better than contraction--especially where holidays are concerned.
Heaven forfend that anyone should enjoy a variety of seasonal celebrations without turning them into a symbol for resentment politics.
I don’t resent it any more than I resent your appeal to Heaven. It’s really more in the nature of amusement politics. I have no problem with people having a good time on St Patrick’s Day or Chinese New Year without the genetic testing to back it up. I just find it funny that people look at it as a way of establishing diversity credentials when so many other borrowings from other cultures are callout-worthy.
I don’t resent it any more than I resent your appeal to Heaven. It’s really more in the nature of amusement politics. I have no problem with people having a good time on St Patrick’s Day or Chinese New Year without the genetic testing to back it up. I just find it funny that people look at it as a way of establishing diversity credentials when so many other borrowings from other cultures are callout-worthy.
I think cultural exchanges are generally a good thing; I'm not one to accuse others of "cultural appropriation" anyway.
I do, however, question you citing the concept of Christian love when you seem to disdain many of the groups Christ championed--like prisoners and refugees. Or is that just "virtue signalling?"
I do, however, question you citing the concept of Christian love when you seem to disdain many of the groups Christ championed--like prisoners and refugees. Or is that just "virtue signalling?"
You have hit on one of the subtle differences between Christ and me.
You have hit on one of the subtle differences between Christ and me.
Not so subtle if even I can suss it out. ;)
That's OK--there are plenty of us heathens to take up the slack.
That's OK--there are plenty of us heathens to take up the slack.
You mean talk about your empathy while not doing much?
iris lilies
11-20-18, 3:53pm
You have hit on one of the subtle differences between Christ and me.
Damn, I knew you would come up with a good response, I just didnt predict what it would be!
Damn, I knew you would come up with a good response, I just didnt predict what it would be!
There’s a great Lyle Lovett song called “God Will” that I always think of when I get called out for being insufficiently Christlike. The refrain end with “That’s the difference between God and me”.
You mean talk about your empathy while not doing much?
Is that how you see it? I guess I have a less jaundiced view of humanity than you do.
Ultralight
11-20-18, 6:18pm
There’s a great Lyle Lovett song called “God Will” that I always think of when I get called out for being insufficiently Christlike. The refrain end with “That’s the difference between God and me”.
Seems to me a Christian would really want to shore up that difference rather than resign to it.
I am not trying to zing you. I am just stating what seems really obvious to me.
Is that how you see it? I guess I have a less jaundiced view of humanity than you do.
What can I say? I’m too old for illusions and too young for delusions.
Seems to me a Christian would really want to shore up that difference rather than resign to it.
I am not trying to zing you. I am just stating what seems really obvious to me.
I am a low, fallen creature struggling toward a redemption I can probably never hope to achieve on my own. Do I value the criminal less than his victim? Yes, because at this point I am incapable of perfect, detached mercy. I won’t try to cover up that imperfection with platitudes. That would impede the effort to become a better person.
If that’s a flaw, I will cheerfully admit to it.
There is Diversity/Cultural Appropriation Christmas, a time we explore other winter holidays to display our cosmopolitanism and eclectic tastes for others to admire.
I just find it funny that people look at it as a way of establishing diversity credentials when so many other borrowings from other cultures are callout-worthy.
Do you honestly believe that the only reason people are interested in other cultures is to establish diversity cred? Just because you may not have any interest in learning about people who are different from you doesn't mean the rest of us are equally uninterested.
Do you honestly believe that the only reason people are interested in other cultures is to establish diversity cred? Just because you may not have any interest in learning about people who are different from you doesn't mean the rest of us are equally uninterested.
I have no problem at all with taking an interest in other cultures. “Cultural Appropriation” is nonsense. But I have had too many boring conversations with the equivalent of travel snobs trying to impress with their collection of souvenirs. It seems to get worse around the holidays for some reason.
I suppose one person's collection of souvenirs is another's interesting experiences. Or maybe it's not that your friends/acquaintances are trying to show off their cultural cred, but instead, just that they're poor storytellers.
I suppose one person's collection of souvenirs is another's interesting experiences. Or maybe it's not that your friends/acquaintances are trying to show off their cultural cred, but instead, just that they're poor storytellers.
The one can compound the other, that’s very true. I’m not interested in remedial cultural competency training at cocktail parties. I’m also not interested in how brilliant and creative your children are or where you went on vacation.
So what DO you talk about at cocktail parties if not children and vacations? I’m fortunate that none of our circle of friends have kids so that topic gets replaced with pets. But vacations and pets are frequemt topics, followed closely with politics.
I have no problem at all with taking an interest in other cultures. “Cultural Appropriation” is nonsense. But I have had too many boring conversations with the equivalent of travel snobs trying to impress with their collection of souvenirs. It seems to get worse around the holidays for some reason.
Oh dear, there are so many boring conversations that go on and on, I hear them about cooking meat, about alcoholic drink recipes, and so many about popular culture. I even get the boring ones at the meditation groups about retreats which gets rather one-up style. However I don't really need to say there is a big thing about it, and sometimes I feel awkward and left out. People talk like they do about 'diversity' like a lot of topics, and a lot of people are just annoying.
So what DO you talk about at cocktail parties if not children and vacations? I’m fortunate that none of our circle of friends have kids so that topic gets replaced with pets. But vacations and pets are frequemt topics, followed closely with politics.
I find it varies by the group. Among my contemporaries, I see an alarming increase in topics relating to medical diagnoses and funerals. Among the work crowd, it tends to be politics and the economy. Among family, about half the topics end in “ball”, while they also cover the state of Wisconsin agriculture, investing and the need to check our white cis-gender privilege to acknowledge our implicit biases and strive for restorative justice for our intersectional allies.
iris lilies
11-22-18, 10:39am
Last night we met up with long time friends, and the topics were
1) dogs
2) millennials—kids these days! ( note that these 6 adults representing 4 households are all childless)
3) dogs
4) hearing loss and new over-the-counter hearing aids, and I tried out one of them
5) death experiences of relatives our age and older
6) dogs
so, I guess in my circle dogs=children
I like hearing about vacations of our friends if they are going someplace I want to go. We have friends who travel to super interesting places each year, and I request a dinner and photo showing evening with them to de-brief them. They are 78 and 81 years old!
This reminds me that I need to invite them for dinner this week to get their rundown on
Morroco.
Teacher Terry
11-22-18, 12:13pm
I love hearing about people’s vacations. Dogs and kids are also topics along with politics.
We talk about trips and what we're doing, travel, food, books, current events, cats and dogs, politics, and whatever subject comes up.
As a non-parent, I can't think of anything more boring than other people's children--at least when they're little. Friends' children are old enough to be interesting, with school and work.
iris lilies
11-22-18, 1:59pm
We talk about trips and what we're doing, travel, food, books, current events, cats and dogs, politics, and whatever subject comes up.
As a non-parent, I can't think of anything more boring than other people's children--at least when they're little. Friends' children are old enough to be interesting, with school and work.
The thing about little children, for me anyway, is that they have to be in the room and then they’re entertaining. Toddlers are a scream! But talking about toddlers is a bore.
I am a mom of 3 and a grandma, I don't totally like hearing about others children either. Yes I do recall when my world revolved around what they ate and the cycles of sleep, pee and poop. However no one really wants to hear too much of that. I keep my granddaughter talk to a couple short, cute stories. I agree with being in the room with them! The younger siblings come into my program at pick up and I love chatting with them while parents try to collect all the backpacks and stuff for the older kids (plus I make sure those 3 year old twins do not run out of the opposite sides of the room).
IL I am excited to be back in a dog house, and the new roommate said it will be nice to have another cat around. Cat stories are not as interesting however.
Cat stories are the best! I'll never tire of hearing about cats getting in boxes. Although our cats are apparently abnormal. We tried setting cucumbers near them and instead of freaking out they just sniffed them and then walked away in boredom.
...
IL I am excited to be back in a dog house, and the new roommate said it will be nice to have another cat around. Cat stories are not as interesting however.
I don't know--I follow a feral cat rescue called Tiny Kittens out of Langley, BC, and they seem to have a steady supply of conversation fodder. There always seems to be a health-compromised kitty convalescing on one of their live feeds. One of the recent ones was a kitten with a large cleft in her palate who sailed through an operation to fix it. I was amazed at that one because it was a fraught process getting her to that point, so lots of drama.
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