The Vagina Monologues are not correct-think now

[iris lilies]

College students are always entertaining. The group at East Michigan University has decided to cut performances of The Vagina Monologues because this body of work is not respectful to women without vaginas.

This is hilarious:

https://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2018/11/emu_group_ends_the_vagina_mono.html

Apparently this work was an annual event at this University, so it is not as though they have shut down a current performance. But still. Funny stuff that cannot be made up.

In my poking around the internet on this issue, I found one sage who opined that pussy hats show transphobic oppression. If that hat is a symbol of sexual assult of women, logic follows that it is hurtful to imply women without vaginas cannot be victims of sexual assult. It is dismissive of their experiences.

[bae]

Hmmm. My brain is pondering. I understand there is open warfare these days between different waves or sects of the feminist movement. In particular, the TERFs are a flashpoint.

[LDAHL]

In particular, the TERFs are a flashpoint.

To be fair, my neighbor and I have had some pretty heated discussions on fescue versus bluegrass.

[iris lilies]

Look, I suspect the cuttoff of this play has more to do with the fact that it is outdated than any other. If it is an annual event as indicated on the college’s home page, then it time to retire that annuall performance.

But why dont they say so instead of turning it into some sort of virtuous act? Oh wait, I know why...

bae, I dont know what TERF is and will have to go look that up, but there have always been several factions within feminist thought. Ut you know that.

[bae]

bae, I dont know what TERF is and will have to go look that up, but there have always been several factions within feminist thought. Ut you know that.

Yes, I have quite a research library on the matter here, but it is a constant effort to keep up with current events. :-)

[Tradd]

EMU - my alma mater!

[Yppej]

And here I thought trans women had vaginoplasties.

[Alan]

It appears that you can have transgenderism or feminism, but you can't have both.

[Yppej]

You can have both. I recently read Patrisse Khan-Cullors's autobiography and she repeatedly makes the point that Black Lives Matter was established as an organization for all women including trans women.

[bae]

And here I thought trans women had vaginoplasties.

Not all. Not even most. The data I was presented at a class just last week claimed that last year's stats were, roughly, for trans women: 92% "top surgery" (breast/chest work), 7% facial, and < 1% "bottom surgery".

My understanding is that it is considered wrong to judge someone's transition by the exact number and type of surgeries they have had.

[bae]

It appears that you can have transgenderism or feminism, but you can't have both.

Not at all. You just can't have transgenderism coexist with certain *types* of feminism. Particularly the older types. 3rd wave feminists and beyond are quite trans-inclusive and understand intersectionality.

[Yppej]

Well then Vagina Monologues would exclude.

[bae]

Well then Vagina Monologues would exclude.

I suppose if one wanted to look at it as the experiences of "all women", yes. If you looked at it as the experiences of "women with vaginas", then perhaps less so. It certainly is very gender-binary, and erases the existence of genderqueer/intersex people. But it is a piece of its time.

[jp1]

I suppose if one wanted to look at it as the experiences of "all women", yes. If you looked at it as the experiences of "women with vaginas", then perhaps less so. It certainly is very gender-binary, and erases the existence of genderqueer/intersex people. But it is a piece of its time.

Sort of like how dated the movie ‘The Boys In The Band’ felt to me when i watched it in the early 90’s as a recently out gay man. It seemed very much a period piece that wasn’t especially relevant to my life. At that time the play the movie had been based on was only 24 years old. Not too different age-wise from The Vagina Monologues introduction to today.

[Zoe Girl]

I suppose if one wanted to look at it as the experiences of "all women", yes. If you looked at it as the experiences of "women with vaginas", then perhaps less so. It certainly is very gender-binary, and erases the existence of genderqueer/intersex people. But it is a piece of its time.

That makes sense, I would see it as relating to a lot of women but maybe not all. I don't consider myself in any of the categories that we are talking about now however I can relate to some of it. I don't see myself fitting the traditional female model, a lot of groups of women irritate me. Growing up I had long stretches of time where I dressed more boyish, even got called out in bathrooms for being in the wrong place. So I was never interested in vagina monologues but I just figured there is a wide variety of women. Sometimes I have felt very left out of groups of women however,

Can I just say, why the h*** are we so interested in other people's naked parts? Or how people have sex? Or if people are fitting into their box based on all this rather private stuff?

[Gardenarian]

It's an issue because trans women often have a different agenda for feminism than cis-women. Trans women (gross generalization here) tend to be less interested in women's health and safety issues, such as birth control and abortion, which have been central to long-time feminists. They were also not socialized as women, and if you visualize women as an oppressed class, then trans comes off seeming like cultural appropriation.
(I'm getting all the buzzwords in here!)

TERF is trans exclusive radical feminism. I am not a TERF, but I do see their point.

[Geila]

What I liked about The Vagina Monologues was that it forcefully addressed the female body, esp female genitalia, which is often a taboo subject.

And now I want someone to come up with The Menopause Monologues!

Why is it that the female body experience is so hard for women to talk about? I can understand men not being interested in it, but why are women so reluctant? Often it seems that we are each left to figure out stuff on our own even though more than half of our population has the same experiences. So in that sense, I do not think the Monologues is outdated and I don't think it needs to change in order to include persons who have not had the formative female body experiences. I do think that a transgender monologue would be a really good idea to present experiences that transgender women can share. But those experiences are going to be different than someone who was born a woman.