View Full Version : Border Drama
gimmethesimplelife
11-23-18, 1:27pm
So, now that a number of migrants have arrived in Tijuana, and now that Trump is talking in terms of lethal force, what's your take on how this migrant caravan/Border Drama is going to play out? I personally worry about deaths on both sides given how the rhetoric has been amped up lately. Rob
What could be more thanksgivingish than killing a few migrants who have left home seeking a better, safer life somewhere else...
But seriously, my hope is that there are enough adults in the (metaphorical) room so that no one ends up dead despite trump's desire to have there be a few dead brown people to please his base.
Teacher Terry
11-23-18, 1:41pm
Just read a article by a farmer who owns farms in both Florida and California. He lost 500k in one month because he couldn’t hire enough people to pick the crops. He said few citizens ever apply. Even with automation he needs people.
I do not think the soldiers will fire on anyone.
Kent State 1970? They fired. National Guard, but soldiers.
ToomuchStuff
11-24-18, 3:40am
I do not think the soldiers will fire on anyone.
If rocks are thrown, I expect a response.
The question will be what force will be used? (rubber bullets, regular bullets, etc)
I do not think caravan members will throw rocks.
Well I was wrong. They are throwing projectiles. Stupid stupid stupid.
Well I was wrong. They are throwing projectiles. Stupid stupid stupid.
Why are you so surprised? I am not. The whole enterprise was a bad idea. People who think they are above the law and can just do whatever they like.
Per the BBC, Mexico is going to deport the ones who stormed the border.
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-46339085
Teacher Terry
11-25-18, 8:33pm
They have a legal right to request asylum. They are not breaking the law by being there. Obviously trying to enter illegally is breaking the law and they will be deported. What we are doing separating families, taking forever to look at asylum requests is breaking the law as well as immoral.
I’m not aurprised. We should have been sending immigration judges not the military. Trump set it up to be a violent conflict because he knew his supporters would be all in favor. And now they won’t be disappointed.
I agree jp...this is not going to end well and it sets up any immigration reform for failure. We are better than this and just need the WILL to address it.
I’m not aurprised. We should have been sending immigration judges not the military. Trump set it up to be a violent conflict because he knew his supporters would be all in favor. And now they won’t be disappointed.I believe the violence is taking place in Mexico, against Mexican authorities. I didn't think Trump had that level of influence.
Actually it was US CBP who used tear gas against them after the migrants threw projectiles upon being refused access to the port where they intended to file for asylum. Perhaps if they thought they might actually be getting a fair asylum hearing instead of just being repelled by the US military there'd be a lot less tension. So, yeah, it's on the divider in chief.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/san-diego-border-crossing-shut-down-after-migrants-try-entering-n939891
gimmethesimplelife
11-25-18, 10:08pm
Actually it was US CBP who used tear gas against them after the migrants threw projectiles upon being refused access to the port where they intended to file for asylum. Perhaps if they thought they might actually be getting a fair asylum hearing instead of just being repelled by the US military there'd be a lot less tension. So, yeah, it's on the divider in chief.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/san-diego-border-crossing-shut-down-after-migrants-try-entering-n939891+ about a trillion!!! Rob
gimmethesimplelife
11-25-18, 10:08pm
I agree jp...this is not going to end well and it sets up any immigration reform for failure. We are better than this and just need the WILL to address it.Thank You....plus about a billion!!! Rob
gimmethesimplelife
11-25-18, 10:10pm
They have a legal right to request asylum. They are not breaking the law by being there. Obviously trying to enter illegally is breaking the law and they will be deported. What we are doing separating families, taking forever to look at asylum requests is breaking the law as well as immoral.Very much I agree with you, TT. What we are doing IS highly immoral. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
11-25-18, 10:17pm
I believe the violence is taking place in Mexico, against Mexican authorities. I didn't think Trump had that level of influence.Nope. A simple googling if you wish to get up to speed on this issue will reveal that tear gas was deployed by US authorities against the migrants. OTOH I'm grateful it was not bullets - just think of the further reputational decline on the World Stage, the continued and increasing decline in international tourism to the US by people with money that would benefit the US if spent here, and the effects on national wealth via continued deep stock market plunges. Then again, was the tear gas really necessary, either? This is the kind of American thinking I have found repellent starting around the age of 8 (though to be fair I only understood the very basics of this at that age). What was achieved by using the tear gas other than coming across as a third world type dictatorship? A serious question is this last as I don't believe personally there is a sane answer to this question.
Will be interesting and also a source of great fear to see how this situation continues to unfold. I'm just glad the border was only closed for five hours - hopefully there were no US Citizen deaths due to lack of access to affordable Mexican health care. If there were, I personally would consider Donald J Trump somewhere in the middle of directly and indirectly responsible for murder of any US citizens who passed due to this lack of access to Mexican health care while the border was admittedly briefly closed. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
11-25-18, 10:21pm
I’m not aurprised. We should have been sending immigration judges not the military. Trump set it up to be a violent conflict because he knew his supporters would be all in favor. And now they won’t be disappointed._Personally I am unable to forgive Donald Trump for this transgression - of Human Rights, Human Dignity, and Common Sense. Good thing I live around almost exclusively Democrats as every time I look at a known Trump supporter going forward, I am going to see this blatant example of lack of respect for Human Rights, Human Dignity, and Common Sense. Though to be honest where I live in my infamous zip code I won't run across many if any Trump supporters. After today that suits me just fine. Rob
Teacher Terry
11-25-18, 11:52pm
60 Minutes tonight ran a show about the poor kids being separated and the mental trauma they experienced. Some employees couldn’t stomach it and quit. Some cried.
Actually it was US CBP who used tear gas against them after the migrants threw projectiles upon being refused access to the port where they intended to file for asylum. Perhaps if they thought they might actually be getting a fair asylum hearing instead of just being repelled by the US military there'd be a lot less tension. So, yeah, it's on the divider in chief.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/san-diego-border-crossing-shut-down-after-migrants-try-entering-n939891
It appears I wasn't up-to-date on the drama at hand, my mistake. I knew some members of the caravan had been clashing with Mexican riot police but was unaware that several hundred of them had forced their way past the Mexican authorities and tried to enter the US illegally through holes in the fence.
Thanks for the update!
Nope. A simple googling if you wish to get up to speed on this issue will reveal that tear gas was deployed by US authorities against the migrants. OTOH I'm grateful it was not bullets - just think of the further reputational decline on the World Stage, the continued and increasing decline in international tourism to the US by people with money that would benefit the US if spent here, and the effects on national wealth via continued deep stock market plunges. Then again, was the tear gas really necessary, either? This is the kind of American thinking I have found repellent starting around the age of 8 (though to be fair I only understood the very basics of this at that age). What was achieved by using the tear gas other than coming across as a third world type dictatorship? A serious question is this last as I don't believe personally there is a sane answer to this question.
Will be interesting and also a source of great fear to see how this situation continues to unfold. I'm just glad the border was only closed for five hours - hopefully there were no US Citizen deaths due to lack of access to affordable Mexican health care. If there were, I personally would consider Donald J Trump somewhere in the middle of directly and indirectly responsible for murder of any US citizens who passed due to this lack of access to Mexican health care while the border was admittedly briefly closed. Rob
You should go down there while you can and tell them about the America that you know. Maybe you can convince them that they shouldn’t come. Why would they want to storm the gates or climb the fence to live here?
So people attempted to force the border and were turned back by non lethal means? So far I don’t see the atrocity here.
It’s interesting to see how various news sources can interpret the same event in so many different ways.
Ultralight
11-26-18, 9:08am
WWJD?
Teacher Terry
11-26-18, 11:51am
They were encouraged to do it by leaders of the movement. Now those leaders have gotten people deported.
So people attempted to force the border and were turned back by non lethal means? So far I don’t see the atrocity here.
I'm curious what the "correct" response to the situation was supposed to be.
Ultralight
11-26-18, 12:51pm
I'm curious what the "correct" response to the situation was supposed to be.
I am not sure. Though I can think of some big incorrect responses.
Ultralight
11-26-18, 12:52pm
You should go down there while you can and tell them about the America that you know. Maybe you can convince them that they shouldn’t come. Why would they want to storm the gates or climb the fence to live here?
Rob flees to Mexico all the time. I will trade one Rob for one hard-working Central American! ;)
I am not sure. Though I can think of some big incorrect responses.
Annex Baja Norte, tell the people they are welcome to stay there, welcome to America.
They were encouraged to do it by leaders of the movement. Now those leaders have gotten people deported.People are always collateral damage in organized movements such as this. The important thing is to repeat over and over again "America is a racist country" and "It's all Trump's fault", that makes it all worthwhile.
I'm curious what the "correct" response to the situation was supposed to be.I think you saw the "correct" response, but Rob's mileage may vary.
I think you saw the "correct" response, but Rob's mileage may vary.
I have been part of the "opposing force" several times now for the state patrol's crowd/riot control training sessions, and the proceedings I saw on the news seemed in-line with what I've experienced. Well, except for the lunch breaks and the nice sandwiches and coffee.
I'm curious why Rob isn't blaming the Mexican authorities for this event.
I'm curious what the "correct" response to the situation was supposed to be.
Tear down statues of James K Polk?
Teacher Terry
11-26-18, 2:01pm
The correct response is to send immigration lawyers and judges to the border to start processing people. Then no need to be aggressive since they will realize that they will have a fair hearing.
The correct response is to send immigration lawyers and judges to the border to start processing people. Then no need to be aggressive since they will realize that they will have a fair hearing.
It's a good thing you're not a reality tv show producer. such a practical response is not likely to get good ratings.
I beg to differ. Immigration drama is featured on TLC's 90 Day Fiance with no violence to titillate viewers.
The correct response is to send immigration lawyers and judges to the border to start processing people. Then no need to be aggressive since they will realize that they will have a fair hearing.
I don’t see waiting times as causing a “need” for aggression. It seems that the people organizing the caravans are hoping for enough aggression on a scale that will provoke a response resulting in video of people, preferably women and children, being hurt. Then we will be hearing about “the human cost” of controlling the border.
I think Alan is right that these people are being used as political gun fodder by people on both sides of the issue.
gimmethesimplelife
11-27-18, 11:37am
Now that myself and my neighbors have caught their breath and begun the process of lowering our collective blood pressure, I will say one positive thing about the recent border brouhaha (I've always liked this word but it's hard to find places in which to use it).
Getting to the point - I'm glad at least bullets were not used. That would have been lethal - and I don't mean any sarcastic humor here - I mean it would have been lethal for both America's economy and lethal to what little positive image or respect it has left on the world stage - and issue it will take many years to recover from once Trump is no longer in power.
But whatever. At least bullets were not used. Color me grateful for that much. Rob
I am grateful for that as well, Rob! And thank you for caring about others as you do. We may not agree on things at times, but I really appreciate how respectful you are of others here, and value your input and your threads very much.
ToomuchStuff
11-27-18, 12:22pm
Why did the migrants leave their country, instead of just doing the SJW thing of shaming the criminals?
Why don’t they stay in Mexico? Haven’t they heard about the lifesaving cheap medical care?
Rob, you need to recheck those bags of yours, you may need to flee before they close the border again.
Why did the migrants leave their country, instead of just doing the SJW thing of shaming the criminals?
another mystery, they just need to band together with some residents from a certain zip code. They could form a protest march back to their home country’s. They abviously haven’t been informed on how bad things are in the US.
It's easy to be hundreds/thousands of miles from this and say we're being so inhumane, and it's just not fair, etc., etc. Why should we take everyone in? I'm sure by now they know the magic words "Asylum". How much of our taxpayer money would go to keeping them for a long time in our country, while all of them get their "day in court"? Why is it considered inhumane and unreasonable to not want to let thousands of people in all the time? I absolutely abhor Trump. But I think we need to be a bit more realistic about being "humane". I'm sure we all here might differ widely in what we think needs to be done. But I wonder how we would all feel if we lived in this area? We're a totally spoiled bunch who can afford to feel "humane" and caring all the time, without really ever feeling what it might be like to run out of space or food or housing, etc. Expecting Mexico to help more is not unreasonable, but they aren't prepared for this. Can you imagine the garbage and stench of Tijuana? I'm rambling. But I really feel that some in our country have gotten ridiculously open-minded about always taking everyone in all the time. I get tired of hearing about it. Like the analogy I've always made.....If there's a family with enough to eat, space, etc., should they be expected to take in more and more and more, so that it no longer is a decent home to live in? I'm just finding it amazing how some people are so pro-immigrants that, to me, it's being unreasonable and short-sighted.
YES......please don't tell me we are all immigrants. It's a different world now. And it's not a very pretty one.
Catch and release was not working. And being granted asylum is not that easy. Just looking for work does not meet the criteria, and they know it.
And I guess rushing the border is not working as well for them either. There has always been the legal way to do things, they should try that.
Just read a article by a farmer who owns farms in both Florida and California. He lost 500k in one month because he couldn’t hire enough people to pick the crops. He said few citizens ever apply. Even with automation he needs people.
i know several people in the citrus business. And I have heard no complaints from them. But they probably pay for legal employees. And I have seen no shortages in the supermarket.
But that is probably not worth writing a article about.
Teacher Terry
11-27-18, 4:50pm
So just did a search and California has a huge shortage of workers. Some farms have raised the pay to $21/hour and still can’t find enough workers. I am getting sick of repeating this but immigrants commit far fewer crimes than citizens. They don’t qualify for welfare. They band together and help each other. Many end up starting small businesses. It’s a win win. Citizens are having less children and you need people to pay taxes, etc and support the older generation.
So just did a search and California has a huge shortage of workers. Some farms have raised the pay to $21/hour and still can’t find enough workers. I am getting sick of repeating this but immigrants commit far fewer crimes than citizens. They don’t qualify for welfare. They band together and help each other. Many end up starting small businesses. It’s a win win. Citizens are having less children and you need people to pay taxes, etc and support the older generation.
I never said I was against legal immigration. But rushing the border or climbing over the fence is not legal. We shouldn’t just take anyone who wants in. I dought that if we let them pass thru the US on the way to Canada that they would be welcomed there either. If they are really looking for asylum, they can stay in Mexico, and apply legally here.
And if the farmers are employing illegals they should be procecuted. That’s also against the law. I could have made more money if I wasn’t required to higher legal residents.
Teacher Terry
11-27-18, 6:02pm
Many of these people are asylum seekers which is legal. Why would they stop in Mexico where there are no jobs and people go hungry? Immigrants want to work. If we would process these people in a timely manner then we would have legal workers and many could work at the farms as their first jobs.
Many of these people are asylum seekers which is legal. Why would they stop in Mexico where there are no jobs and people go hungry? Immigrants want to work. If we would process these people in a timely manner then we would have legal workers and many could work at the farms as their first jobs.Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that asylum seekers who shop their asylum destination for the best economic deal are not really asylum seekers. Economic refugees are, I believe, a different category of migrants. It appears that everyone approaching our border are economic refugees.
Teacher Terry
11-27-18, 6:58pm
So after escaping violence I guess it makes total sense to seek asylum in a poor country where your kids will most likely starve. That makes sense to me.
We took all sorts of illegal actions to prop up dictators in this hemisphere but we have never intervened to help the victims of gangs in Honduras, Guatemala and El Salvador. Maybe this could be the war Trump needs to distract people as Mueller winds up his investigation. We didn't have a problem interfering in Guatemala before.
Ultralight
11-27-18, 7:31pm
Some people are so principled that they would not leave an impoverished, violent, third-world shit hole and illegally enter a foreign, wealthy, largely peaceful nation so that their kids could live quality, healthy, fulfilling lives. Right, Alan? Right!
mschrisgo2
11-27-18, 8:12pm
... Why would they stop in Mexico where there are no jobs and people go hungry?...
An awful lot of US citizens go hungry as well. Take a look at the amount of free-and-reduced-price school breakfasts and lunches served annually, and look at the statistics on senior hunger. We have a huge problem.
Ultralight
11-27-18, 8:19pm
An awful lot of US citizens go hungry as well. Take a look at the amount of free-and-reduced-price school breakfasts and lunches served annually, and look at the statistics on senior hunger. We have a huge problem.
I have eaten pretty reasonably on $10.50 worth of groceries a week a few times. I ate these foods during those times:
-Lentils
-Rice
-Carrots
-Cabbage
-Bananas
-Peanut butter
-Bread
-Eggs
Had I $20 I could have eaten really quite well. So while I think that there are some kids going hungry in this country I think part of it is that their parents drank it or snorted it up their nose.
As for seniors, I think that taxing the wealthy and giving them more social security or food stamps could fix the problem. But I also think that as individuals they should have planned better for old age AND simultaneously we as a society should be teaching better home economics and personal finance to all. I know I could have used that!
But I think if you can't pull together $20 bucks a week to eat, you have some other serious problems in the majority of cases.
I have eaten pretty reasonably on $10.50 worth of groceries a week a few times. I ate these foods during those times:
-Lentils
-Rice
-Carrots
-Cabbage
-Bananas
-Peanut butter
-Bread
-Eggs
Had I $20 I could have eaten really quite well. So while I think that there are some kids going hungry in this country I think part of it is that their parents drank it or snorted it up their nose.
As for seniors, I think that taxing the wealthy and giving them more social security or food stamps could fix the problem. But I also think that as individuals they should have planned better for old age AND simultaneously we as a society should be teaching better home economics and personal finance to all. I know I could have used that!
But I think if you can't pull together $20 bucks a week to eat, you have some other serious problems in the majority of cases.
Then maybe you could help by paying back your school loans in full.
Teacher Terry
11-27-18, 8:50pm
I know kids go hungry here. I was a social worker and worked in some of those programs.
Ultralight
11-27-18, 8:54pm
Then maybe you could help by paying back your school loans in full.
What do you mean "in full?"
So after escaping violence I guess it makes total sense to seek asylum in a poor country where your kids will most likely starve. That makes sense to me.
Some people are so principled that they would not leave an impoverished, violent, third-world shit hole and illegally enter a foreign, wealthy, largely peaceful nation so that their kids could live quality, healthy, fulfilling lives. Right, Alan? Right!
I know it's hard to apply reason in a venue that prefers emotion but consider this: The media has convinced most of us that these immigrants are seeking asylum from their country of origin for whatever reason. The problem lies in the fact that they have passed through another country which has offered them asylum and they have refused the offer. This removes the pressing need that is essential in all country's asylum policies and leaves the immigrants in the legal state of people wishing to come to this country to improve their economic prospects. There is a different process for them.
For those of you who insist on granting asylum to people who are already removed from whatever threat caused them to flee their country, please consider the fact that you're taking asylum spots from people who may actually need them.
Teacher Terry
11-27-18, 9:14pm
I doubt Mexico has offered asylum to all those people. They can’t afford the people that live there.
Dmc, don't you know that international leisure travel for adults is more important that food for children? Children can't enjoy exotic spices, special keto diets, won't want to fast, and might not be quiet enough if taken out to an Indian restaurant. They and their need to eat are not pseudohipster chic.
But I think if you can't pull together $20 bucks a week to eat, you have some other serious problems in the majority of cases.
You might want to hang out and do a couple shifts at your local food bank, you might learn a thing or two.
I know kids go hungry here. I was a social worker and worked in some of those programs.
Thank you for doing this work. It must have been hard to see hungry children.
So I have to ask, did it sometimes take away your own appetite, or did it not impact you so you would perhaps overeat, maybe anonymously to avoid a public display of your privilege?
Williamsmith
11-27-18, 9:27pm
I know it's hard to apply reason in a venue that prefers emotion but consider this: The media has convinced most of us that these immigrants are seeking asylum from their country of origin for whatever reason. The problem lies in the fact that they have passed through another country which has offered them asylum and they have refused the offer. This removes the pressing need that is essential in all country's asylum policies and leaves the immigrants in the legal state of people wishing to come to this country to improve their economic prospects. There is a different process for them.
For those of you who insist on granting asylum to people who are already removed from whatever threat caused them to flee their country, please consider the fact that you're taking asylum spots from people who may actually need them.
The decades long immigrant fiasco aside.....I find it hard to take seriously any discussion regarding 5,000 or so economically stressed humans as being an “invasion” of a country of around 300 million with an ample supply of ready menial jobs and a plethora of unscrupulous businessmen willing to hire them at poverty level wages. Whatever they are fleeing has to be a hideous life.
Was the first colonial settlement......legal immigrants?
Was the first colonial settlement......legal immigrants?
I suppose so, unexpected, perhaps even unwanted, doesn't equal illegal.
Are we talking Roanoke Island, where the English came in and assimilated so well with a friendly tribe that they disappeared as a distinct people?
Ultralight
11-27-18, 9:50pm
Dmc, don't you know that international leisure travel for adults is more important that food for children? Children can't enjoy exotic spices, special keto diets, won't want to fast, and might not be quiet enough if taken out to an Indian restaurant. They and their need to eat are not pseudohipster chic.
Don't want to actually debate the one you are targeting in these comments, huh? Can't blame you, after the way it made you look last time.
What do you mean "in full?"
The total amount you borrowed plus interest.
The decades long immigrant fiasco aside.....I find it hard to take seriously any discussion regarding 5,000 or so economically stressed humans as being an “invasion” of a country of around 300 million with an ample supply of ready menial jobs and a plethora of unscrupulous businessmen willing to hire them at poverty level wages. Whatever they are fleeing has to be a hideous life.
Was the first colonial settlement......legal immigrants?
We need a way to process them so we know who is coming in,and that they have jobs lined up. Not a mob storming the border. Maybe those farmers can guarantee them jobs and pay their taxes on them.
Teacher Terry
11-27-18, 10:10pm
Y, no it didn’t cause any eating issues for me. I did donate all my kids clothes, toys that they outgrew to these families. I also would buy them food from my personal money at holiday time. I only lasted 4 years and then went back to graduate school. Working with abused, some hungry kids is heartbreaking. Trying to figure out which pervert in the family sexually abused a 2 yo girl. Seeing kids go downhill in foster homes. Some good ones but some just doing it for the money. People taking their small children to Walmart and teaching them to steal because you can’t prosecute someone under 10. They got a big surprise when we took all 10 kids to a safe house. A 5 yo so abused physically that he begged me to run over his mother. He was very violent for obvious reasons. 30 years ago still feels close sometimes.
Not a mob storming the border.
Maybe if instead of sending soldiers and closing the border we'd sent lawyers and immigration judges it wouldn't have appeared to be a mob storming the border. This is just another example of US law enforcement escalating a situation and then being blaming others when it turned ugly.
ToomuchStuff
11-28-18, 2:16am
Maybe if instead of sending soldiers and closing the border we'd sent lawyers and immigration judges it wouldn't have appeared to be a mob storming the border. This is just another example of US law enforcement escalating a situation and then being blaming others when it turned ugly.
Send them to where? Where are the court houses and living quarters/law libraries for them? (can't order civilian's to move/live in tents)
Also, what about those who are currently in existing cases? Do they get told to wait for their day in court?
Ultralight
11-28-18, 7:01am
The total amount you borrowed plus interest.
Why would I do that?
Also, dmc, I'd like to know a lot more about your financial situation so I can judge you and tell you what you ought to be doing. So please share.
I doubt you will. Why? You're scared.
If you are afraid of the ball, don't step up to the plate.
flowerseverywhere
11-28-18, 7:27am
These people are being used as pawns. It would not surprise me in the least if this whole thing was financed and supported by pro trump (so he could build that wall) or anI-Trump (portray him as a despicable human being). Shameful.
why don’t people around the world want open immigration? One reason is here in the US we are not even taking care of our own. The number of people with no access to medical care is growing. Our schools are no where near the top in the world. We have homelessness, drug crisis, drinking water crisis (Flint is just one example), our own Veterans not receiving adequate medical care and so on. There are Americans who have for generations worked and paid taxes all over Florida, California, the Carolinas etc. who are living in tents and sleeping in cars due to natural disasters. Should they not be our first priority to help?
non assimilation into the American culture is another. The fear of Muslims, gangs, terrorists and so on. The news photos of a woman alone with three kids and pregnant is a picture of someone who will require a tremendous amount of resources before she and her children will be able to give back. Plus many of these young men, the majority of the caravan have admitted they want to make money to send back to their families left at home.
So right or wrong, this is why they are not wanted by many here and why Donald Trump was elected and still enjoys over 40% support, despite all the ugly tweets, criminals he has surrounded himself with and lies.
Why would I do that?
Also, dmc, I'd like to know a lot more about your financial situation so I can judge you and tell you what you ought to be doing. So please share.
I doubt you will. Why? You're scared.
If you are afraid of the ball, don't step up to the plate.
i understand that you don’t have to pay the full amount back, but your still screwing someone over.
As to my financial situation, I paid for my college by working construction jobs during the summer months and breaks, I did borrow a small amount, but paid it back in full, with interest. I also paid for much of my wife’s college and my two sons.
i decided to quit working just before I turned 50, no pension, just savings and investments. My wife also retired at 50, although she is 3 years younger so not at the same time. I have not worked in 11 years and my net worth is higher now than then, even though we spend approximately 10k a month, not including taxes.
When I got out of college I married my wife a few months later, she was 19, I was 22. She now has a masters degree and specialist. We got married at Fort Knox on Saturday and I was at work in Texas on Monday. I owned a pickup truck but my wife had a few thousand in school loans. So not much net worth to start with.
Good post flowerseverywhere! There’s so much here with our own American family that needs help with out letting more in who need more help.
Ultralight
11-28-18, 8:09am
i understand that you don’t have to pay the full amount back, but your still screwing someone over.
As to my financial situation, I paid for my college by working construction jobs during the summer months and breaks, I did borrow a small amount, but paid it back in full, with interest. I also paid for much of my wife’s college and my two sons.
i decided to quit working just before I turned 50, no pension, just savings and investments. My wife also retired at 50, although she is 3 years younger so not at the same time. I have not worked in 11 years and my net worth is higher now than then, even though we spend approximately 10k a month, not including taxes.
When I got out of college I married my wife a few months later, she was 19, I was 22. She now has a masters degree and specialist. We got married at Fort Knox on Saturday and I was at work in Texas on Monday. I owned a pickup truck but my wife had a few thousand in school loans. So not much net worth to start with.
When did you go to college?
Also: You know I am a public servant, right?
Ultralight
11-28-18, 8:35am
dmc: Don't you worry little buddy, you'll get your chunk of the change I borrowed. I only have a 1% chance of getting my loans forgiven anyway.
See this:
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/29/this-public-service-loan-forgiveness-remedy-isnt-reaching-many-people.html
I don’t understand why various ones of us continue to think that ultralight is not paying off his loans. The loan Forgiveness program is in place to pay him back for years of work. He’s paying his loan by working it off. He’s not in default like so many others.
This is just another example of US law enforcement escalating a situation and then being blaming others when it turned ugly.
I also suspect the people throwing rocks and tearing holes in fences may have had something to do with it.
If you consider long wait times to be a sufficient provocation for that sort of thing, I would like you to come with me next time I go to the Department of Motor Vehicles.
I don’t understand why various ones of us continue to think that ultralight is not paying off his loans. The loan Forgiveness program is in place to pay him back for years of work. He’s paying his loan by working it off. He’s not in default like so many others.
I agree. He’s honoring his obligations under a contract. You could argue the wisdom of the contract, perhaps, but that isn’t on him.
Ultralight
11-28-18, 9:09am
i understand that you don’t have to pay the full amount back, but your still screwing someone over.
As to my financial situation, I paid for my college by working construction jobs during the summer months and breaks, I did borrow a small amount, but paid it back in full, with interest. I also paid for much of my wife’s college and my two sons.
i decided to quit working just before I turned 50, no pension, just savings and investments. My wife also retired at 50, although she is 3 years younger so not at the same time. I have not worked in 11 years and my net worth is higher now than then, even though we spend approximately 10k a month, not including taxes.
When I got out of college I married my wife a few months later, she was 19, I was 22. She now has a masters degree and specialist. We got married at Fort Knox on Saturday and I was at work in Texas on Monday. I owned a pickup truck but my wife had a few thousand in school loans. So not much net worth to start with.
dmc: I read over this again. You really made some excellent financial decisions. I can appreciate that and I respect you for it.
Here is my question to you: Put yourself in my place right now. What would you do? I am open to your ideas. Please share your wisdom.
Williamsmith
11-28-18, 10:29am
The border drama is all political showboating. The real solutions have been manifest for a long time. They do not include building a symbolic billion dollar wall. They include removal of the welfare state magnet which draws people to the US for the wrong reasons, free up financing for immigration reform by reducing the war footprint across the globe and eliminate the war on drugs. Streamline the system so that there are not unreasonable waiting periods and view these people as the potential assets they are and not label them criminals and terrorists.
flowerseverywhere
11-28-18, 10:45am
The border drama is all political showboating. The real solutions have been manifest for a long time. They do not include building a symbolic billion dollar wall. They include removal of the welfare state magnet which draws people to the US for the wrong reasons, free up financing for immigration reform by reducing the war footprint across the globe and eliminate the war on drugs. Streamline the system so that there are not unreasonable waiting periods and view these people as the potential assets they are and not label them criminals and terrorists.
Stop making sense. People need to blame Trump/ Obama/Soros/Koch brothers/McConnell/nra/Hillary and so on.
The border drama is all political showboating. The real solutions have been manifest for a long time. They do not include building a symbolic billion dollar wall. They include removal of the welfare state magnet which draws people to the US for the wrong reasons, free up financing for immigration reform by reducing the war footprint across the globe and eliminate the war on drugs. Streamline the system so that there are not unreasonable waiting periods and view these people as the potential assets they are and not label them criminals and terrorists.
+1
ApatheticNoMore
11-28-18, 11:39am
I thought the answer if one wanted to limit immigration was to crack down on employers hiring them. That is the wrong reason people come here for afterall, for work, it's why even the caravan doesn't want to stay in Mexico, better work in the U.S.. They have said as much.
catherine
11-28-18, 11:40am
Border drama: Vermont
Just saw that the Border Patrol is in Grand Isle mapping out checkpoints on the island!! We are 26 miles from Canada and apparently the federal government has the authority to put checkpoints anywhere within 100 miles of the border. This is ridiculous!! The local paper has tried to get information from them and they won't give any.
Teacher Terry
11-28-18, 11:48am
L, comparing those people’s plight to the DMV is insulting. Do you sit outside for days with no shelter waiting to enter? Catherine, another example of wasting the taxpayers money for nothing.
iris lilies
11-28-18, 12:30pm
The border drama is all political showboating. The real solutions have been manifest for a long time. They do not include building a symbolic billion dollar wall. They include removal of the welfare state magnet which draws people to the US for the wrong reasons, free up financing for immigration reform by reducing the war footprint across the globe and eliminate the war on drugs. Streamline the system so that there are not unreasonable waiting periods and view these people as the potential assets they are and not label them criminals and terrorists.
I could get behind this.
L, comparing those people’s plight to the DMV is insulting. Do you sit outside for days with no shelter waiting to enter? Catherine, another example of wasting the taxpayers money for nothing.
You can alert the empathy police for aggravated insensitivity if you like, but I still maintain that the adequacy or lack thereof of the bureaucratic infrastructure to deal with an artificially created surge in asylum applications justifies what we saw the other day. The organizers of this ugly circus could simply bring up an even larger group the next time.
I do agree that taking the measures most advanced countries employ to limit the ability of people here illegally to work would go a long way toward solving the problem.
Send them to where? Where are the court houses and living quarters/law libraries for them? (can't order civilian's to move/live in tents)
Also, what about those who are currently in existing cases? Do they get told to wait for their day in court?
This isn't some remote. Border crossing in the middle of nowhere. It's an urban area near San Diego.. Maybe I'm wrong but I think there are probably plenty of hotels/buildings that could provide accommodation and facilities suitable for asylum hearings. I also doubt that immigration judges consult legal libraries very often for run of the mill asylum cases. I'm willing to be swayed on this if someone would like to provide statistics showing otherwise.
dmc: I read over this again. You really made some excellent financial decisions. I can appreciate that and I respect you for it.
Here is my question to you: Put yourself in my place right now. What would you do? I am open to your ideas. Please share your wisdom.
i don’t blame you for taking advantage of the program, I just don’t agree with the program. Instead of using this program to entice you to stay, they should just pay everyone a bit more. Don’t most public service jobs also have good benefits and pretty stable jobs. Why should you get a break and not someone else just because they don’t work for the public sector?
I ended up moving from Texas to Wyoming for a better paying job, then I ended up moving from there to Missouri. I was able to move up in pay with each new job.
When did you go to college?
Also: You know I am a public servant, right?
I graduated in 1980, during the Carter years, high unemployment and high interest rates. I paid in the low teens in interest on my first home, and I believe the unemployment rate was close to 10%. I know college cost were less then, probably due to the fact that there wasn’t as much easy money loans. But due to my moving around a bit before we settled in Missouri my wife attended school in Ky, Wy, and two schools in Missouri. She got her masters degree in the late 80’s while we had twin boys at home.
Border drama: Vermont
Just saw that the Border Patrol is in Grand Isle mapping out checkpoints on the island!! We are 26 miles from Canada and apparently the federal government has the authority to put checkpoints anywhere within 100 miles of the border. This is ridiculous!! The local paper has tried to get information from them and they won't give any.
Since I live on the gulf coast I and pretty much everyone in Florida is within 100 miles of the border.
this is from their web sight
https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1084/~/legal-authority-for-the-border-patrol
Border drama: Vermont
Just saw that the Border Patrol is in Grand Isle mapping out checkpoints on the island!! We are 26 miles from Canada and apparently the federal government has the authority to put checkpoints anywhere within 100 miles of the border. This is ridiculous!! The local paper has tried to get information from them and they won't give any.
There’s a whole genre on youtube of border patrol checkpoint refusals that provide instruction for people who don’t wish to give up their constitutional rights. TLDR (actually TLDW (watch)) version: the advice basically amounts to repeating these two phrases, and nothing else, calmly, over and over regardless of what the CBP person says or asks:
‘Am i being detained?’
‘Am i free to go?’
Border drama: Vermont
Just saw that the Border Patrol is in Grand Isle mapping out checkpoints on the island!! We are 26 miles from Canada and apparently the federal government has the authority to put checkpoints anywhere within 100 miles of the border. This is ridiculous!! The local paper has tried to get information from them and they won't give any.
What does this mean? Do you mean you have to drive through checkpoints to get from the mainland to your home, or checkpoints you have to navigate moving around your island?
Bae, does this happen where you are, on your island near Canada?
Ultralight
11-28-18, 5:51pm
i don’t blame you for taking advantage of the program, I just don’t agree with the program.
Why don't you agree with the program?
Instead of using this program to entice you to stay, they should just pay everyone a bit more.
Who should pay everyone a bit more? Have you considered writing a letter to "they" and suggesting they pay everyone more? Do so. Let me know how they respond.
Don’t most public service jobs also have good benefits and pretty stable jobs.
This varies quite a bit by state, agency, level of government, union or anti-union, and so on.
Why should you get a break and not someone else just because they don’t work for the public sector?
Why should soldiers get the GI Bill and not people in the private sector who do comparable work? The army has barbers. Should a barber working at Sports Clips get the GI Bill?
I get a break because I am dedicating ten years of my career to public service. The work I do helps to fund cancer research, scholarships for students, agricultural research, etc. Things that benefit the public at large.
I ended up moving from Texas to Wyoming for a better paying job, then I ended up moving from there to Missouri. I was able to move up in pay with each new job.
The economy was a lot different then.
Again, if you were me in this very moment, what would you suggest I do? I am all ears, bro. Drop some science on me, my ninja!
catherine
11-28-18, 6:54pm
What does this mean? Do you mean you have to drive through checkpoints to get from the mainland to your home, or checkpoints you have to navigate moving around your island?
Bae, does this happen where you are, on your island near Canada?
Looks like they are setting up a checkpoint on the main causeway from the mainland to the island. So it will probably be the most inconvenient going to and from Burlington. So ironic. Not a traffic light on the island, but now we have to stop for border patrol. I don't get why they need more checkpoints when they already have one up at the border. Interestingly, I'm watching the comments on FB, and there are quite a few people who don't have a problem with it, in the name of public safety. They are accusing the people upset about it of politicizing it--and they are accusing the media (meaning the little weekly local paper) of spreading anti-Trump bias.
iris lilies
11-28-18, 6:58pm
Catherine, are ya’ll trying to capture dark skinned people up there? According to your news reports, what populations are illegally coming over the border?
catherine
11-28-18, 7:07pm
Catherine, are ya’ll trying to capture dark skinned people up there? According to your news reports, what populations are illegally coming over the border?
Of course! God forbid the proportion of Caucasians in Vermont drops below 97%! I have no idea where this "threat" is coming from. DH says that if Trump effectively prevents people from coming through at the southern border, they might try the northern border (maybe build rafts and paddle from Tijuana to Vancouver, and then hike 3000 miles to get to the Vermont/Canadian border, don L.L. Bean flannel shirts, grow beards and slip in quietly. Hmm.. so crazy it just might work!
Why don't you agree with the program?
Who should pay everyone a bit more? Have you considered writing a letter to "they" and suggesting they pay everyone more? Do so. Let me know how they respond.
This varies quite a bit by state, agency, level of government, union or anti-union, and so on.
Why should soldiers get the GI Bill and not people in the private sector who do comparable work? The army has barbers. Should a barber working at Sports Clips get the GI Bill?
I get a break because I am dedicating ten years of my career to public service. The work I do helps to fund cancer research, scholarships for students, agricultural research, etc. Things that benefit the public at large.
The economy was a lot different then.
Again, if you were me in this very moment, what would you suggest I do? I am all ears, bro. Drop some science on me, my ninja!
I believe the economy is in a lot better shape now than in the 80’s. My sons are 34 now and have had no problem with jobs. One is self employed and the other works for a local company. My daughter in law wanted to move to Florida near us and he had a new job lined up before they moved. My daughter in law sells aviation insurance and her company lets her work from home.
i don’t know your skills or degrees. I assume if you haven’t pursued better paying jobs by now it really doesn’t matter. If no one would take the public sector jobs they would either have to raise the salary’s or do without. Evidently you can’t leave due to your loans.
My wife and I also put in much more than a 40 hr week for years also, and we did not get overtime. But it was figured into the pay and bonuses. You may not be interested in that. We also took some risk with our money, I bought land in 2001 and sold it all in 2005 when I thought it was getting ahead of itself. But I also lost some in the dot com bubble.
Bae, does this happen where you are, on your island near Canada?
The ferry terminal on the mainland has a customs facility and checkpoint, because a ferry from Vancouver Island comes in there once a day.
All ferry traffic from our county, which is made up entirely of islands, goes through that ferry terminal. Our ferries are Washington State ferries, running on what is technically Highway 20, and operating entirely within US waters.
Some times in the past, they have decided to run *all* traffic from the islands through the checkpoint, which is all fenced in and fancy... The locals don't enjoy this much.
I'll be travelling tomorrow, I'll be curious to see what they are doing.
They also patrol the waters here quite heavily - one day travelling from my island to the neighboring one, our county seat, as an elected official, for a regularly scheduled public hearing, I was stopped in my boat multiple times by multiple federal agencies for inspection. On a roughly 15 mile voyage. I was quite late for the meeting.
There are no checkpoints here *on* the island.
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