How To Deal With An Extremely Disorganized Significant Other

[SiouzQ.]

They say opposites attract, and me and my boyfriend couldn't be more opposite in so many ways. Just to give a little background, we still live on opposite ends of our tiny town and sleep at our own places. We do a lot of shared cooking at each other's houses. I am somewhat of a neat-nik and despise unnecessary clutter; he is sloppy, never cleans his place, the refrigerator is atrocious, and I have watched the bathroom garbage can fill up for the last three months and he still piles trash into it (I go over to his house to use the bathtub. I end up cleaning the tub myself before I take a bath). It just never occurs to him to do many of these basic things that would make his life run smoother.

He is also pretty bad with money - he earns a lot but doesn't have much to show for it at age 59. The ways in which he wastes money is a bit appalling to me, as I am coming from the Simple Living frugal way of life. He wastes a lot food and money by not planning ahead, he misses appointments because he doesn't use a calendar, is late paying bills and rent, on and on and on. It's hard for me to watch someone be that way but he has been that way his whole life.

Our backgrounds couldn't be more different either: I come from an educated middle-to-upper-middle class family, he comes from a family of poverty, abuse, chaos and and dysfunction that was pretty bad. He was essentially on his own after his father kicked him out as a older teenager. Yet, over the decades he has done very well for himself working in IT and computers for over 30 years.

So on the flip-side: he is one of the most generous, caring individuals I have ever met and been in a relationship with. He takes care of me, all the way through the crap I have been through the past two years - the surgeries, the death of my daughter, EVERYTHING! I do and would do the same for him too.

So our individual styles really come to a head regarding travel and that can make it a bit stressful - we just flew to Oklahoma City to be with his sister's family (my first time meeting his side of the family, other than his son and daughter). He is so disorganized with the flights, forgot to check the night before, forgot who he made the rental car reservation with (we had to go from counter to counter until they found us). Going crazy making sure he had his diabetic survival bag all set and all his other medications, trying not to lose his glasses at every turn (he did end up losing a pair of sunglasses and had to buy new ones in Oklahoma). He would lose his head if it wasn't attached to his body; he is so very absent-minded. Maybe it is because he is so detail-oriented at work with the computer coding stuff that he simply can't notice details in his outside life?

Consequently for me, being a "doer" and "de-clutterer" and an organized sort of person, it is hard to know when to step in and when not to. He is an adult and if he loses the key to his truck for the second time in two months that it is his responsibility (it already cost him $300 a few weeks ago to have someone come out here and make a new one). He has loose keys all over the place instead of on a specified key ring, so yesterday I made sure he got them all in one place. Luckily someone in town found his truck key ring somewhere and hung it on the fence by his front door.

I don't want to be a "mother" to him and scold him for things, but it is hard to watch someone fumble around so hard with the basics when I know things could be so much easier (and cheaper) for him if he paid more attention and planned things better. I know *some* of what I do to run my life easier has rubbed off a little here and there on him but there is SO much room for improvement.

One of the things I did for him over the summer (I needed a distraction from my grief) was to help him get his apartment set up better and make it more homey - and that was fun. We rehung a lot of his art work he had collected over the years, moved furniture around, and got a table lamp. I helped fix up the bathroom with a new shower curtain and artwork on the wall. There is still so much more work to do - he needs a major de-clutter of the piles of crap lying around. And the whole place needs a DEEP CLEAN. I told him I would clean it for him in appreciation for all the meals he cooked for me after surgery, but I probably can't do it for another week or so because I am still healing. I'm hoping he will let me help him de-clutter before I clean because that makes sense, right?

How does one negotiate this stuff with a significant other? I think if we were ever to move in together this kind of stuff will end up being a sticking point - I like things clean and organized, and he doesn't seem to care, though I'm sure he would really enjoy all the benefits of living in a nice clean place. I sure don't want to do all the work for it and also would never want to become a "nag" about things. We would have to have a SERIOUS discussion on expectations of each other.

[Ultralight]

This is going to sound harsh. But I break up with them, that is how I deal with it.

[Teacher Terry]

My husband and I are opposite in house standards. So his areas ( his office, garage and shed are his spaces to do as he wants. The rest of the house must be neat. It has worked for us for 20 years. We have so much fun together. He makes me laugh everyday. We travel well together. My ex was very neat but life was painful with him. My husband can be absent minded and lose stuff but not to the level you describe. No relationship is perfect.

[JaneV2.0]

I would maintain two households and just worry about my own issues, personally.

I'm not a housekeeper. I told my SO that when I met him. If he had tried to browbeat me into being what I had no intention of being, we wouldn't have lasted long.

Focus on his goodness; life is short. He sounds like a wonderful, caring companion.

[SiouzQ.]

Ultralight: and maybe that is why you are perpetually alone.

I think the solution for us, and we have made some conversation about it, is to negotiate what each person is good at naturally. I am naturally more organized and on top of things, so I should probably be the one who makes and keeps track of travel plans. He of course is responsible for all his medications, but I have helped him get better deals on things by getting him to do the research. He is a good cook when he makes the effort, is always on time for work, washes and irons his clothes religiously, and is a very hard worker.

I know it is a give and take thing; I can't expect him to be just like me (admittedly I am slightly OCD and anal-rententive about certain things) and he can't expect me to go over to the "dark side" of slobbiness in the home. Since we don't live together and probably won't until my gallery stint is over, it's all a moot point anyway. Sometimes I just have to tell myself to relax and back off. I can take control of the travel things when needed just so things run smoother.

[pinkytoe]

I think by your age(s) neither one of you is going to change so you just have to maintain separate spaces to keep your sanity - either with your own houses or within one domicile. I am watching that dynamic play out with DD and her husband and she always tells me that you have to pick your battles. His positives outweigh his disorganization but unfortunately she has to act like mommy on occasion and pick up after him.

[Ultralight]

"Zoning" is a good option if you don't want to go nuclear.

Those zones might be separate residences. Or they might be separate bedrooms. Or as described above, it could just be dividing the rooms and saying: "Trash these ones all you want. But these ones must be tidy!"

[JaneV2.0]

Does he own his property? Maybe you could build a small MIL unit on it?

I bet you can work it out to everyone's advantage. There's no shame in needing a secretary, and he can always hire stuff done.

[razz]

I bet you can work it out to everyone's advantage. There's no shame in needing a secretary, and he can always hire stuff done.
Or a weekly housekeeper

[Teacher Terry]

I also make our travel plans because I am much more organized. I met my husband at44 and we were able to compromise because we wanted to live together. On one forum I belong to they bought houses next door to each other. He sounds like a good person.

[nswef]

Separate housing sounds sensible. Travel plans, might be something you do with your strength of organization. The messiness factor in housekeeping would make me want separate housing.

[rosarugosa]

I think you can make this work and you have already proposed the solution in division of labor that plays to each person's strengths. That is what DH & I have done successfully for many years.

[SiouzQ.]

He is a wonderful person and we are very lucky to have found each other, so randomly in little old Madrid, NM! I think I was just venting out some frustrations is all; I'll keep to my sh**, and let him deal with his, though he is usually pretty receptive to a helping hand. He knows this about himself and he does get frustrated when he screws up. He certainly didn't have very good role models growing up. In spite of that, he grew into a very fine person.

[Teacher Terry]

I think it’s great that you are helping him with things he isn’t as good at. My husband grocery shops which is great since I don’t like to do it. Everyone occasionally gets frustrated with their partner.

[JaneV2.0]

Could his memory issues be related to his diabetes? If so, be on the lookout for other dementia symptoms, so you can probably nip it in the bud.

[iris lilies]

I would maintain two households and just worry about my own issues, personally...


..lFocus on his goodness; life is short. He sounds like a wonderful, caring companion.

i agree with this pretty much. Do not under any circumstances mingle households or finances. But the rest of it can be managed.

[mschrisgo2]

I'm imagining you two could work out a compatible understanding and live together happily. It all has to do with the "doing what you're good at" part. My now very long ago ex-husband and I cleaned house together and he preferred cleaning the bathrooms, doing the general dusting, and cleaning the floors. That left me with the kitchen and general tidy throughout the house, on a weekly basis. We agreed on no food outside of the family/dining/kitchen/patio area. He agreed to throw his dirty clothes into a large laundry basket in the dressing area. I ran laundry while I made dinner once a week; he did his own ironing of work shirts, and put his clothes away, I did mine. We did windows together 3 times a year, shared the yard work, he took care of the cars and I paid the bills. We grocery shopped together. We planned trips together, but I took care of reservations and invitations.

The very hardest was kitchen clean up after dinner. I hate going into the kitchen in the morning to last night's mess, he didn't care. But I finally realized it was because he literally didn't go in the kitchen on workday mornings. He didn't eat breakfast, and got his coffee at the donut shop on his way to work. I, on the other hand, ate breakfast and the mess made me resentful. We had to have a couple very serious discussions and some deliberate changing of evening habits to get to where the kitchen was clean before bedtime. This was complicated by the fact that he was a very messy cook, but really enjoyed cooking- which I didn't want to discourage- and the fact that I clean as I go and the kitchen is clean when I sit down to eat, so I just have to put plates and silverware in the dishwasher after dinner. But we got through it.

All this negotiation seemed overwhelming at first, and hard. I had lived in an apartment by myself for 2.5 years before we moved in together. He had been in the army, then went home to his parents'. I was used to my clean and organized space. He was still decompressing from the army (though I didn't realize it at the time). I did not want to nag, I wanted "equality" and I wanted clean and organized living space. We got there, and I think you can, too. One step at a time. Start small, celebrate success, don't give up. He really sounds like a keeper.

PS At this stage of my life, I would hire a housecleaning service for 4 hours a week. :)

[Tammy]

I would change nothing. Keep living separately. We (especially women) are too quick to compromise to make living together work. There’s no reason you can’t live separately and continue to have a good life together,

[Teacher Terry]

I much prefer living with compromise with a person I love than living alone with my house perfectly neat. It depends on what makes each person the happiest. However, I cannot live with my entire space messy.

[SteveinMN]

(selected quotes)

It just never occurs to him to do many of these basic things that would make his life run smoother.

He wastes a lot food and money by not planning ahead, he misses appointments because he doesn't use a calendar, is late paying bills and rent, on and on and on. It's hard for me to watch someone be that way but he has been that way his whole life.

He is so disorganized with the flights, forgot to check the night before, forgot who he made the rental car reservation with (we had to go from counter to counter until they found us). Going crazy making sure he had his diabetic survival bag all set and all his other medications, trying not to lose his glasses at every turn (he did end up losing a pair of sunglasses and had to buy new ones in Oklahoma). He would lose his head if it wasn't attached to his body; he is so very absent-minded.

it is hard to watch someone fumble around so hard with the basics when I know things could be so much easier (and cheaper) for him if he paid more attention and planned things better. I know *some* of what I do to run my life easier has rubbed off a little here and there on him but there is SO much room for improvement.

I'm certain all of your BF's sloppiness, lack of planning, and absentmindedness predated the two of you meeting. Yet for all of this, your BF has reached 59 years of age with his own place to live, a career, and (apparently) money to burn. Could it be that, by your BF's standards, he's doing alright?

I don't recall how long you two have been together and I don't know his backstory (did he have any previous long-term relationships? were these reasons why they ended?). But it doesn't seem like he feels he's really in need of all that "improvement" or it would have happened by now. Things like losing his car key fob is essentially a nuisance to him, one of those annoyances of life that all of us encounter from time to time. It's not taking food off his table; it's not endangering anyone's life. So no big deal (or so it seems he thinks).

You may have some success in removing from him some tasks he either dislikes or does not care about, like travel planning. You may even succeed in "zoning" (as UL put it) some of the worst of the disorder behind closed doors.

But, after 59 years, if you think the communal bathroom will remain clean if he's using it or that he'll stop losing track of things, I think you'll be in for a rude awakening. Your BF does not see these things as problems. So what incentive does he have (or can you provide) to change a long lifetime of habit?

My ex had problems with being disorganized similar to those your BF exhibits. She misplaced her car keys constantly, sometimes making her late for work or even for gigs for her side hustle. I used to help her find the keys. Then, when I realized I was enabling the behavior, I stopped. She still lost her keys but now it took longer to find them. Finally I made the unsolicited suggestion that, if she put her keys in the same spot every time, she'd know where they were when she wanted them. She tried it and (golly!) it worked. But even though losing her car keys created real issues for my ex, it never occurred to her to seek suggestions on how to fix the problem. Was it a brain thing? Did losing car keys (and $$ as a result) not cause enough pain to sponsor a change in how she did things? I don't know.

But I see the same thing happening here. What bothers you apparently does not bother your BF. Do not expect him to even think they're issues to be "fixed" or that life necessarily will be "smoother" for him after whatever obsession is needed to keep things clean and orderly. If you're okay with being the mom all the time, proceed and know that the job is yours for life. Apparently he's a great guy in most other respects so maybe you're up for it. But I suspect that, over time, you'll just grow to resent the difference -- and that will be very damaging to the relationship.

[Teacher Terry]

I disagree Steve. My ex was perfect on paper but impossible to live with. My DH is the opposite. I gave him a landing zone and if he doesn’t use it I don’t help him look for his stuff. Been married 3xs and beyond happy with this one. We reached a agreement on what would work for both of us and we have both held up our part of the bargain 20 years later. Their relationship sounds good in all the important places.

[Tammy]

I agree with Steve. Things look best in the beginning of any relationship, and then we really get to see things clearly when living together.

This is only the beginning of your frustrations if you move in together.

[SiouzQ.]

All interesting opinions presented here, and a lot of food for thought. Moving in together is absolutely not in the imminent future, at any rate. I am hanging onto my tiny house living as long as possible in order to save up as much money as possible.

We are so compatible in so many other ways, I am thinking that should the situation ever present itself, we will be able to each voice our concerns and expectations of each other and honestly think about if it would work and how it would work. I would definitely need my own space/bedroom. I have lived alone for so long that I know I would need a refuge for myself within the house.

In the meantime, I am going to work on where my boundaries are, like where to step in and help and where to back off and let him deal with things the way he has always dealt with them. I am still committed to doing a good cleaning at his place because he has helped me so much when I couldn't do things for myself. It is the least I can do and it will make his space more comfortable for both of us. We still have some decorating work to do and that has been fun for us to do together. We like to go to estate sales and thrift shops.

[Teacher Terry]

A friend of mine is 72 and hadn’t lived with anyone in 20 years and said she never could again. She meets s guy in her book club and a year later they move in together. He literally is a absent minded professor. He is messy. I tell her about the zone idea and now they are very happily living together.

[Float On]

SiouzQ, I think you've already done a good job of appreciating the good aspects of him and those are the things I'd concentrate on. Being thankful for what he does bring to the relationship. I'm over the idea that all relationships have to end in people living together in traditional marriage. I have a friend and she and her husband have completely different lives on opposite coasts. They meet up for dinners or trips and it works for them. They've been married 30 years.
I do think you should have open conversations about each of your strengths and weaknesses/needs and work out who does what. You obviously are better at travel plans and maybe should be in charge of that. I hand my husband a clear envelope with all travel plans and arrangements when he leaves for a trip alone and he's done a good job of not loosing the envelope but in your case you should probably hang onto the envelope.

[beckyliz]

Do you think he's open to learning new skills? Sounds like he doesn't recognize what can be done to make life a bit easier. I'm wondering if he'd be open to something like this: "DB, I notice you struggle at times with keeping track of X. Would it be helpful for me to show you some techniques I've used to help me stay on top of [that issue]?

[Gardnr]

Should the occasion happen to move in together, a strategy is likely a good idea for a heartfelt discussion. Something like:

"We've spent a lot of time together now in each of homes. I know there are many things we do differently or that matter to us vs don't matter, and I think we can compromise so that we are mutually satisfied because we genuinely care about each other and the relationship we've built over the past few years. I can give up on X, X, X. What I really do need in my/our home however is, X, X, X. Of these I'm willing to take care of X, X and would like us both to be responsible for X, X. Can we talk about what this looks like?"

Having negotiated a domestically mutually satisfying relationship and division of duties AFTER being married 10 years.....I know it's doable.

[Ultralight]

Consider saying this:

"I need you to conform to my way of life. Thanks."

[rosarugosa]

Consider saying this:

"I need you to conform to my way of life. Thanks."

UL: You should be a relationship advice columnist! :laff:

[Teacher Terry]

UL, the person will say no thanks :))

[iris lilies]

UL: You should be a relationship advice columnist! :laff:
Yes! Because we could all do the opposite of what he says.

[Ultralight]

UL, the person will say no thanks :))

So pessimistic!

[Ultralight]

Yes! Because we could all do the opposite of what he says.

Sure, just abandon your ideals!

[SteveinMN]

We've spent a lot of time together now in each of homes. I know there are many things we do differently or that matter to us vs don't matter, and I think we can compromise so that we are mutually satisfied because we genuinely care about each other and the relationship we've built over the past few years. I can give up on X, X, X. What I really do need in my/our home however is, X, X, X. Of these I'm willing to take care of X, X and would like us both to be responsible for X, X. Can we talk about what this looks like?"
I've had that same conversation too many times over many, many years. What I've learned is that that you have to make yourself either tolerant of or happy with the way things are. Too often during such conversations the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. And then later you end up having The Conversation all over again.

Sorry to be such a Negative Ned on this. It's just that my experience is that people resist "fixing", especially when what they've been doing has been working out well enough for them for a long time. It's not that people cannot change. But they have to want to. There has to be something in it for them to change longstanding habits or personality traits, especially once the novelty is over or the ink on the paper is dry.

[Gardnr]

I've had that same conversation too many times over many, many years. What I've learned is that that you have to make yourself either tolerant of or happy with the way things are. Too often during such conversations the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak. And then later you end up having The Conversation all over again.

Sorry to be such a Negative Ned on this. It's just that my experience is that people resist "fixing", especially when what they've been doing has been working out well enough for them for a long time. It's not that people cannot change. But they have to want to. There has to be something in it for them to change longstanding habits or personality traits, especially once the novelty is over or the ink on the paper is dry.

You're right. both parties have to WANT the relationship to work in order to reach a mutually satisfying compromise. I doubt we're the only ones. Perhaps I'm more optimistic than most?

[Tammy]

Until he asks for help - it won’t do any good to offer it. Sure he’ll let you help. But he won’t change because he’s ok with things as they are. So I would never want to be the woman offering to help, when he isn’t asking for help. That’s taking his problem ( which he doesn’t see as a problem) and making it my problem. I don’t need more problems,

Which is another way of saying I agree with Steve. Ha.

[catherine]

I'm trying to think about examples from my long-term marriage with DH, who is very different than I am in many ways, with many opportunities for minor domestic clashes (and believe me--there are been a few of those!). Maybe we've been together so long, I've forgotten how we've managed to slide into compromise. But to Steve's point about sometimes "the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak"--sometimes the flesh is simply unable.

For instance, he doesn't even seem to see when floors are dirty. So if he if he is unable to recognize the "problem" he simply can't change. I guess I could say, "Please help me out by mopping the floor once a week whether it needs it or not," but I've tried that and the results tell me that he doesn't see what I see. And believe me, I'm not a white glove type of cleaner. He is also pretty inept at financial matters. But, OTOH, if I'm convinced we need plumber or an electrician, he can often do something very simple and we're in business again. I have no intelligence with those types of things. And when it comes to social things, he's king. While I'm bumbling around trying to connect with people, he's already got them wrapped around his little finger. That doesn't have much to do with organization, but it does speak to how no matter how good the relationship is, two people are bound to be very different in certain areas.

In the OPs situation, I would concentrate on only those things that directly affect you. If he's truly unable to do something he might appreciate you taking responsibility for it if it's really bugging you--such as arranging travel. I suspect that over time you'll find the ways in which you accept each other's quirks, and ways in which you're both happy to relinquish control over something you don't like to do.

[Teacher Terry]

My ex was perfect on paper, very organized, neat, clean, etc. Should have been my soul mate. Instead I spent 22 years with him waiting for my kids to grow up. A living hell. Last 20 years with messy Mike who makes me laugh multiple times a day. We have so much fun and love and respect each other.

[SteveinMN]

But to Steve's point about sometimes "the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak"--sometimes the flesh is simply unable.

For instance, he doesn't even seem to see when floors are dirty. So if he if he is unable to recognize the "problem" he simply can't change. I guess I could say, "Please help me out by mopping the floor once a week whether it needs it or not," but I've tried that and the results tell me that he doesn't see what I see. And believe me, I'm not a white glove type of cleaner.
catherine, thank you for a much better illustration than I provided. My point is not that SQ's relationship is already doomed; it's simply that it seems BF does not have issues with conducting his life the way he has, likely for several decades. If he recognized and wanted to "fix" the things SQ listed, he would have had many opportunities over the years to investigate possible resolutions. Or SQ's providing the lead on "fixes" BF somehow never heard of before gradually would provide the "a-ha" reactions he needs to address the issues SQ believes should change (still haven't seen if that's been true so far).

So my argument is that SQ needs to be prepared to accept things the way they are, now and forever, and treat any movement in the direction of her desired outcomes as the icing on the cake of his being generous and caring and loving. But, then, if being generous and caring and loving is enough to surmount the issues of cleanliness and orderliness, there's no need for SQ to "fix" things. But if clean and orderly is important enough to her (she wrote a longish post about it and sought the help of the forum) and he doesn't even see the issues or meet her definition of their agreed-upon expectations, either she will have to accept his best efforts and leave the matter be or "do all the work for it and also [become] a "nag" about things" (as she wrote in her OP). Her choice.

We have no idea how much she values the qualities beyond generous and caring. "Generous" and "caring" are great things, but I cannot say if -- especially over time -- they overcome having to deal with the immediate outcomes of lost objects or missed meetings/deadlines or continually being the one who cleans and straightens. It is not unreasonable for being in that role -- especially over time -- to engender resentment, especially when "fixing" these things seem so simple to the fixer. That will not enhance the relationship and may well kill it.

[SiouzQ.]

I had to laugh last night ~ like father, like son. I was dropping off SO's son in Albuquerque (he had been visiting his dad over the weekend) and *almost* ended up with a really nice work of art he purchased over the weekend and left on the floor of the back seat of my car as we were leaving for the airport. The only reason I even saw it in the dark parking lot was that I was getting my empty water jugs out of the car to go to the grocery store.

I think right now I am just so super-sensitive to everything. It has been five months since my daughter died and I seem to be moving into yet another type of grieving hell (probably holiday-oriented). So immensely sad and over-sensitive the last few days.

[sweetana3]

Holidays are stressful even without grieving. Important to understand that is what you are feeling, allow yourself to feel it and grieve, and let others help as much as you are able.

[iris lily]

I had to laugh last night ~ like father, like son. I was dropping off SO's son in Albuquerque (he had been visiting his dad over the weekend) and *almost* ended up with a really nice work of art he purchased over the weekend and left on the floor of the back seat of my car as we were leaving for the airport. The only reason I even saw it in the dark parking lot was that I was getting my empty water jugs out of the car to go to the grocery store.

I think right now I am just so super-sensitive to everything. It has been five months since my daughter died and I seem to be moving into yet another type of grieving hell (probably holiday-oriented). So immensely sad and over-sensitive the last few days.

Aw, sweetie, do what you have to do to get through this. And now may not be the time to clean your SO’s house if you find that idea exhausting. It is too bad that he doesn’t have a neat, orderly place for you to visit, and that may be adding to your holiday stress.

[Teacher Terry]

My friend lost her 19yo daughter to a rare liver disease 7 years ago. Holidays and her birthday are hard as well as the day she died. It took another friend 20 years before she could talk about her son without crying. Be good to yourself and don’t expect to much. Surround yourself with people who care. My friend and I reminisce about Hannah frequently and talk about the good times.

[SiouzQ.]

My BF cleaned his apartment this past weekend! He even swept and washed the floors, AND emptied the bathroom trash can. It seems only when the mice start to take over because of all the dropped crumbs and goodies that get left behind from his messy cooking that it finally spurs him into taking action. The other day he found what used to be a perfectly good pair of his underwear had a bunch of holes chewed through them - out comes the mouse traps and some cleaning commences.

[Teacher Terry]

Yikes! I can’t relate.

[rosarugosa]

I guess we all have our limits!